Circus Is a Sport. Treat It Like One.

WEBVTT

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That's what that last interview was.

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That's pretty amazing.

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Look at that.

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The flyover of Anaheim there.

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I did that myself on a drone.

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Hey, mate, were you like flying the drone?

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Were you like riding the drone?

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Stock image.

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Yeah, I just told her that.

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It is nice.

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Welcome.

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The Circus Doc.

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Yeah.

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Do you introduce yourself as the Circus

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Doc?

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Oh, yeah, definitely.

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I carry the swag.

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That, my friends, is not good branding.

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That is great branding.

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That's good.

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Who designed that?

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Yeah, actually,

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a circus friend of mine who is big

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in the design world,

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she actually works for a couple different

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sports teams and happens to be a circus

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fan.

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And she did it for me years ago,

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actually won an award.

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She's incredible.

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And it's been fun working with her and

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seeing the brand evolve and how much

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longevity the actual design has.

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She's just so skilled.

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So let's give context for people who might

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not know you.

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And for the people who do know you,

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they'll get to figure out where the origin

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story was.

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So your background is what?

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We've talked about this before in an APT

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orthopedics discussion.

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But how do you set the superhero backstory

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for how you got to where you are

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now?

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Yeah,

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so I started as a gymnast as a

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kid and discovered circus at a summer camp

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in my early teen years and kept going.

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I got completely hooked, addicted,

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loved it.

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I was enthralled by the idea of performing

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instead of competing and getting claps

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instead of scored.

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I'm like,

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that just was so much more fun.

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So we got to go out there and

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actually spend time learning that craft

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and skill.

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And at that point, it was really,

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really uncommon to have circus.

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And I was hitting it at the right

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time.

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And I kept doing circus.

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I took time off between high school and

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undergrad, undergrad and grad school,

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and performed professionally for a couple

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years.

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And then kind of came to the other

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side of things to take care of circus

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bodies.

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Yeah.

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And it's such a small niche,

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but your accounts reach so many people.

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Why?

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Why?

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I mean,

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circus artists isn't a huge audience.

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How could it possibly resonate with so

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many people?

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Well, when you're on the inside of it,

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it feels like a massive audience.

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That's for sure.

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It's exponentially growing.

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There's been so much growth in the

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recreational community,

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especially in the United States over the

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last decade, twenty years or so.

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It keeps getting longer the older I get,

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but it's been growing so much.

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Back in the day,

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we were on Sex in the City at

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one of our trapeze schools in New York.

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And since then,

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I feel like it's just exploded with social

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media.

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The way people share information and

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videos,

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those videos are so cool to look at.

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It's not just circus artists looking at

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it.

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It's everybody.

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And then, like, Jimmy wants to try it,

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I'm sure.

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I've done trapeze.

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Oh, you've done trapeze?

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I did the one in D.C.

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on the water.

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Oh, excellent.

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Yes.

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My professor would bring her kids on

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vacation, like the club med,

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and they would do trapeze.

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And, like, it's physical.

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but it's also like fear.

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It's like, okay, you're however tall,

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and you're like,

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I don't really have a problem with

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heights, but you're like,

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I'm gonna do what?

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And you're gonna let go of the bar.

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Yeah,

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you're gonna choose to step off a stable

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platform

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at about twenty-five,

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thirty feet up in the air and then

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just dangle from a thing.

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Correct.

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By choice.

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And you're going to time it.

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I did like,

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and forgive me with the terms, but like,

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alright,

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so I swung once or twice and then

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I went upside down and hooked.

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Yep.

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And then I grabbed some other guy's hands

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and let go.

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You did a knee hang and a catch.

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I mean, I don't want to brag.

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You're basically a professional.

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I knee hang.

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You are ready to perform.

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I knee hung and caught the hell out

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of that.

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Yeah, you absolutely did.

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I wasn't even there.

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When I was done, I was like,

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I did,

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because you watch like six people go and

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you're like...

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There's strength, timing, fear.

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And you're like,

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all these things have to happen correctly

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in a row.

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And then when it does, you're like,

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I didn't screw that up.

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Nice.

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So give people like a who's who besides

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trapeze.

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Who were the other sort of avatars in

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the land of circus?

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So Flying Trapeze is certainly kind of

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like this big, cool thing.

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If you even look back,

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I'm kind of a nerd.

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You don't know this about me,

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but now you do.

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I collect cigarette ads from the nineteen

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thirties and forties because they have

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circus themes.

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Yeah.

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And so like the flying trapeze is always

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kind of like the big thing in the

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big star.

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But we have so much more to circus

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than flying trapeze.

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There are actually very few flying

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trapezes in the world for the public to

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access.

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But there are a ton of pole dance

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studios,

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aerial studios with aerial silks is

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probably the most common or aerial hoop.

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So a big metal hoop that hangs from

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the sky.

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Well, not the sky, the ceiling, hopefully.

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Different types of trapezes that are

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hanging lower.

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Dance trapeze move in and out of the

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floor instead of just working in the air.

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We have acrobatics.

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We have hoop diving.

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So there's metal hoops stacked on top of

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each other based on the ground.

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You can dive through.

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Yeah.

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This is wild.

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Super cool.

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This stuff is made for social content.

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Oh, exactly.

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So it's really eye-catching and grabbing.

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And then people see it enough and they're

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like, well,

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that looks like something I could try.

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Is there something in my community?

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You know,

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there's partner acrobatics and then

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there's acroyoga that's gotten really big

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too.

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People do it in the park.

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People do it in the park all the

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time.

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All the time.

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And we've got a sear wheel and German

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wheel,

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so big metal wheels that instead of being

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the hoop in the air,

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they're kind of the Da Vinci body and

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you can spin around with that.

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Or German wheel,

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which looks like a ladder that's been bent

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into a wheel shape.

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It's actually a competitive sport.

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So there's vaulting and you can watch.

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German wheel competitions and vaulting,

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it's amazing.

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I didn't think we were going to go

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this direction,

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but Germany does have some crazy sports.

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Yes, this is definitely one of them.

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I got some corners of the internet.

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Germany has a TV show where two

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competitors are given an object and a

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knife,

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and it's an irregularly shaped object,

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and their goal is to cut it as

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close to half as possible.

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So they're standing there with a divider

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between them, and Joel is like, here is,

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whatever, a shoe.

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And they have to cut the shoe to

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figure out where half is.

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And they do by weight?

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I don't know.

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Okay, I'm like,

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how do we determine half of a shoe?

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Yeah, probably weight, mass, whatever.

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And I just remember thinking,

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you can make a game out of it.

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Oh, yeah.

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That definitely sounds like something some

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teenagers would invent in college and just

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spend a lot of time doing.

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So when you create content,

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which wasn't a term

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I created content every day when I ran

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a radio station.

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We didn't call it content.

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We called it going to work,

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making some radio.

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But now that is a skill set that

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can help your business and your profession

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and your friends and your community of

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artists.

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Why did you decide to start being like,

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hey, I'm going to do this?

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How did you do it?

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And then also,

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what's your thought process?

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Because I love nobody,

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no two people make a video or write

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an article or do anything the same way.

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Or recover from injury.

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Or recover from injury, yeah.

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So why did you decide to say,

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I'm going to turn a camera on this?

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And who gave you the right?

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You don't need a right.

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When did you feel like, yeah,

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this is my thing?

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You know, it really started...

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Kind of two directions.

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One was going to grad school.

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I was like, oh, hey,

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there is kind of a way I look

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at my professionals and go, okay, yeah,

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the shoulder works to one hundred and

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sixty degrees that way.

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And then what happens?

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Because like mine goes to one ninety,

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you know,

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plus like what's happening up there and

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them not having no answer.

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answers,

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or at least thankfully my professors being

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willing to engage in the conversation,

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which made it really fun.

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So kind of my own curiosity and realizing

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that there wasn't a lot of information out

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there.

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And then the permission was kind of

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granted by the circus community.

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In about twenty eleven, twenty twelve,

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the American circus educators had their

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first meeting at the American Youth Circus

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Organization's annual conference.

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And they were like, hey,

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would you teach an anatomy course for us?

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Oh, yeah, okay.

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And so to have them reach out and

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ask, and I realized that doesn't exist.

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That bridge of that knowledge isn't really

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going into the circus community yet

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because it's been small and growing so

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rapidly because we don't have the deep

00:08:08.954 --> 00:08:10.716
pockets of money of sports yet.

00:08:10.855 --> 00:08:13.298
that tie into those injuries and things.

00:08:13.317 --> 00:08:15.559
There isn't that drive for that

00:08:15.598 --> 00:08:16.379
information to get there.

00:08:16.899 --> 00:08:18.620
And so I became really passionate about

00:08:18.661 --> 00:08:20.622
distributing that information and making

00:08:20.682 --> 00:08:22.963
sure that artists can train more

00:08:22.983 --> 00:08:23.483
efficiently,

00:08:23.963 --> 00:08:25.504
artists can recover from their injuries

00:08:25.725 --> 00:08:28.987
and perform longer and do what they love

00:08:29.326 --> 00:08:29.648
longer.

00:08:30.208 --> 00:08:32.208
We have so many artists of all ages.

00:08:32.349 --> 00:08:32.789
We have

00:08:33.450 --> 00:08:35.131
performances and shows that are artists

00:08:35.292 --> 00:08:36.253
all over the age of forty,

00:08:36.332 --> 00:08:37.573
which isn't that old,

00:08:39.096 --> 00:08:41.759
but is historically pretty old for a

00:08:41.778 --> 00:08:42.318
circus artist.

00:08:42.359 --> 00:08:44.301
And so to be able to have that

00:08:44.341 --> 00:08:45.542
longevity of careers,

00:08:45.722 --> 00:08:46.703
we really need to be able to support

00:08:46.724 --> 00:08:48.544
them and to be able to have our

00:08:48.605 --> 00:08:50.486
artists be able to make it to having

00:08:50.506 --> 00:08:52.590
careers without getting sidelined by

00:08:52.649 --> 00:08:53.811
injury is also huge.

00:08:53.951 --> 00:08:55.172
And just giving them the training

00:08:55.192 --> 00:08:56.373
knowledge of how to

00:08:57.693 --> 00:08:58.914
get through the day get through the week

00:08:59.394 --> 00:09:02.336
without extreme fatigue by monitoring the

00:09:02.355 --> 00:09:04.356
training loads by teaching them training

00:09:04.957 --> 00:09:07.438
ways that we know from other sports but

00:09:07.458 --> 00:09:08.899
in the performing arts world in the dance

00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:12.500
world in music um we just really don't

00:09:12.841 --> 00:09:15.202
have that idea of what training loads look

00:09:15.243 --> 00:09:16.802
like and that you can have high load

00:09:16.842 --> 00:09:18.163
days low load days it's just like i'm

00:09:18.183 --> 00:09:20.164
gonna grind i'm gonna push harder than

00:09:20.184 --> 00:09:22.745
anybody else to get there and so there's

00:09:22.785 --> 00:09:23.547
really been uh

00:09:24.187 --> 00:09:25.587
a start of the conversation on my end,

00:09:25.668 --> 00:09:27.889
and then the community really asking for

00:09:27.929 --> 00:09:28.149
more.

00:09:28.350 --> 00:09:29.552
Right, there it is.

00:09:29.572 --> 00:09:31.832
They saw you as somebody who saw them.

00:09:32.293 --> 00:09:33.355
Not to get too existential,

00:09:33.394 --> 00:09:34.315
but you understand me.

00:09:34.735 --> 00:09:36.057
I'm not normal, right?

00:09:36.096 --> 00:09:36.918
Yeah, I'm not normal.

00:09:36.937 --> 00:09:39.178
What I do is abnormal.

00:09:39.539 --> 00:09:41.000
People aren't flying around or have that

00:09:41.041 --> 00:09:43.322
range of motion or do those things.

00:09:43.783 --> 00:09:45.965
But they said, you see what I do.

00:09:45.985 --> 00:09:46.885
You're one of us, right?

00:09:47.285 --> 00:09:49.508
And then if I hang around,

00:09:50.067 --> 00:09:51.129
if I follow,

00:09:51.730 --> 00:09:52.971
you are leading me to something.

00:09:53.130 --> 00:09:54.192
Yeah, and if I ask you a question,

00:09:54.451 --> 00:09:55.692
maybe I'll get an answer.

00:09:56.173 --> 00:09:57.312
Yeah, I play around with those words.

00:09:57.332 --> 00:09:59.475
People are like, social media is trash.

00:09:59.534 --> 00:10:00.195
And I'm like, all right,

00:10:00.254 --> 00:10:02.836
so tell me about, it's called a feed.

00:10:03.990 --> 00:10:04.831
Right, so what are you eating?

00:10:04.951 --> 00:10:06.011
What are you consuming?

00:10:06.032 --> 00:10:07.513
You're consuming bad feed,

00:10:07.952 --> 00:10:08.932
so don't do that.

00:10:09.393 --> 00:10:11.673
Unfollow or, the tools are designed,

00:10:11.854 --> 00:10:13.215
you can tell it what you don't like,

00:10:13.274 --> 00:10:15.196
and you are, the more you like something,

00:10:15.216 --> 00:10:16.515
it's like this, this, that, that.

00:10:16.535 --> 00:10:17.917
It's the ultimate upvote, downvote.

00:10:18.537 --> 00:10:20.118
If it's bad information, don't do it,

00:10:20.138 --> 00:10:21.418
because you're gonna start to be pissed.

00:10:21.839 --> 00:10:22.979
But if it's good,

00:10:24.379 --> 00:10:26.000
there's an Instagram account that's just

00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:27.081
like Good News Network.

00:10:27.541 --> 00:10:27.721
Love it.

00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:28.481
And when it pops up, I'm like,

00:10:28.621 --> 00:10:30.222
just give me, like, I need ninety seconds.

00:10:30.243 --> 00:10:31.683
I just need something, like, really nice.

00:10:31.724 --> 00:10:33.046
Tell me a nice story.

00:10:33.066 --> 00:10:34.586
Someone saved a puppy from a thing.

00:10:34.606 --> 00:10:35.407
I'm like, great, man.

00:10:35.427 --> 00:10:35.587
Great.

00:10:35.607 --> 00:10:36.808
Love that puppy.

00:10:37.349 --> 00:10:38.029
Feed cleanser.

00:10:38.250 --> 00:10:38.789
Feed cleanser.

00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:39.610
Juice cleanse.

00:10:39.770 --> 00:10:40.211
Same thing.

00:10:40.851 --> 00:10:41.412
I do have to admit,

00:10:41.471 --> 00:10:43.714
I have a whole separate social media

00:10:43.734 --> 00:10:46.015
account for my dog where she follows

00:10:46.035 --> 00:10:47.517
completely different things than I follow.

00:10:47.756 --> 00:10:48.317
But you know what?

00:10:48.618 --> 00:10:49.818
All the things on her feed make me

00:10:49.859 --> 00:10:50.779
incredibly happy.

00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:51.639
Dogs have it figured out.

00:10:51.659 --> 00:10:51.860
Yeah.

00:10:51.921 --> 00:10:52.140
Yeah.

00:10:52.520 --> 00:10:54.081
what would you say because uh there's

00:10:54.101 --> 00:10:55.702
about four thousand students here at csm

00:10:55.724 --> 00:10:57.745
oh my gosh yes you can't you can't

00:10:57.764 --> 00:10:59.145
go anywhere without there's a group right

00:10:59.166 --> 00:11:01.868
there yeah and they travel i feel like

00:11:01.888 --> 00:11:04.370
being uh the guy from uh uh nat

00:11:04.389 --> 00:11:06.672
geo like they traveled in packs oh my

00:11:06.711 --> 00:11:08.753
gosh watch what they they're they're not

00:11:08.793 --> 00:11:10.495
your habitat they're foraging for

00:11:11.394 --> 00:11:16.158
What would you say to a student who

00:11:16.197 --> 00:11:19.559
maybe like tripped across your page and

00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:21.801
they're like, but that feels out of reach.

00:11:21.981 --> 00:11:22.642
I don't have enough.

00:11:22.741 --> 00:11:24.602
I'm not enough to do that or to

00:11:24.663 --> 00:11:25.524
start doing that.

00:11:25.823 --> 00:11:28.164
The biggest question I get on my social

00:11:28.184 --> 00:11:29.645
media account almost every day is,

00:11:29.865 --> 00:11:32.128
do you know a clinician in wherever I

00:11:32.168 --> 00:11:32.268
am?

00:11:33.220 --> 00:11:35.620
These are from the performers,

00:11:36.081 --> 00:11:37.381
from the recreational artists.

00:11:38.241 --> 00:11:39.783
This is a massive population.

00:11:39.982 --> 00:11:40.802
Business opportunity.

00:11:40.903 --> 00:11:42.783
That is a business opportunity that is

00:11:42.923 --> 00:11:45.044
looking for skilled, knowledgeable care.

00:11:46.065 --> 00:11:46.926
That, hey,

00:11:47.666 --> 00:11:49.147
I know now all of these students,

00:11:49.287 --> 00:11:50.626
just like you've done trapeze once,

00:11:50.726 --> 00:11:52.187
a lot of them have been doing circus

00:11:52.227 --> 00:11:53.347
recreationally or have tried it.

00:11:53.368 --> 00:11:53.969
And they're like, well,

00:11:54.089 --> 00:11:54.849
I'm not a professional,

00:11:54.889 --> 00:11:56.048
but can I work with this population?

00:11:56.249 --> 00:11:57.009
Oh, heck yeah.

00:11:57.429 --> 00:11:58.529
You don't even have to have ever done

00:11:58.549 --> 00:11:58.629
it.

00:11:58.649 --> 00:12:00.791
You just need to appreciate that other

00:12:00.831 --> 00:12:02.152
people are doing it and understand it a

00:12:02.172 --> 00:12:02.392
little bit.

00:12:02.511 --> 00:12:04.274
I heard someone have great advice.

00:12:04.594 --> 00:12:05.754
I think it was when starting a YouTube

00:12:05.774 --> 00:12:06.075
channel,

00:12:06.115 --> 00:12:07.296
but the idea was I don't need you

00:12:07.316 --> 00:12:08.596
to be the world's expert.

00:12:08.878 --> 00:12:10.418
I need you to be knowledgeable enough.

00:12:10.499 --> 00:12:10.798
Yes.

00:12:11.178 --> 00:12:12.721
And I would add in like, just don't,

00:12:14.072 --> 00:12:15.053
Give them bad information.

00:12:15.214 --> 00:12:15.995
If you don't know what to say, say,

00:12:16.014 --> 00:12:16.355
I don't know.

00:12:16.674 --> 00:12:17.196
Say, you don't know.

00:12:17.296 --> 00:12:18.115
Or, of course, say,

00:12:18.476 --> 00:12:19.418
I'm going to take time to look that

00:12:19.477 --> 00:12:19.557
up.

00:12:19.778 --> 00:12:20.118
Correct.

00:12:20.578 --> 00:12:22.139
I find one of the most valuable things

00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:23.500
I can ever do for my patient is

00:12:23.541 --> 00:12:24.422
say, I don't know.

00:12:24.581 --> 00:12:25.163
Or, you know,

00:12:25.322 --> 00:12:26.903
I know someone who knows that really well.

00:12:26.943 --> 00:12:27.264
Correct.

00:12:27.464 --> 00:12:28.044
Go do that.

00:12:28.205 --> 00:12:29.846
And then they will come back or they'll

00:12:29.866 --> 00:12:30.988
send their friends because then they trust

00:12:31.008 --> 00:12:31.107
you.

00:12:31.248 --> 00:12:31.687
Correct.

00:12:32.229 --> 00:12:34.129
And I would go a little further in

00:12:34.190 --> 00:12:34.530
saying,

00:12:35.451 --> 00:12:36.412
someone might look at your account.

00:12:36.432 --> 00:12:36.572
I mean,

00:12:36.611 --> 00:12:38.153
how many people are following along right

00:12:38.173 --> 00:12:38.354
now?

00:12:38.394 --> 00:12:38.833
Ballpark.

00:12:39.794 --> 00:12:40.596
About thirty thousand.

00:12:41.547 --> 00:12:42.388
They might look at that and be like,

00:12:42.408 --> 00:12:43.489
well, she's got everybody covered.

00:12:43.849 --> 00:12:44.909
But think about what you just said.

00:12:44.929 --> 00:12:46.071
Do you know a clinician in?

00:12:46.091 --> 00:12:46.971
Do you know a clinician in?

00:12:46.991 --> 00:12:47.871
Do you know a clinician in?

00:12:48.452 --> 00:12:48.893
Absolutely.

00:12:49.013 --> 00:12:51.615
And there's so much need and they're so

00:12:51.655 --> 00:12:53.697
tired of going to physical therapy or

00:12:53.717 --> 00:12:56.100
getting care or not seeking care because

00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.341
they're really afraid of getting told,

00:12:58.881 --> 00:12:59.523
don't do that.

00:12:59.543 --> 00:12:59.802
Correct.

00:13:00.243 --> 00:13:03.323
Or being looked at a little askance,

00:13:03.403 --> 00:13:04.485
especially our pole dancers.

00:13:04.705 --> 00:13:07.025
They don't seek out care because they have

00:13:07.066 --> 00:13:07.765
been shamed.

00:13:07.846 --> 00:13:08.626
Stigmatized.

00:13:08.846 --> 00:13:09.006
Yeah.

00:13:09.147 --> 00:13:10.727
And it's really problematic.

00:13:10.788 --> 00:13:12.447
And we can provide better.

00:13:13.089 --> 00:13:14.509
Or going to get care and being told

00:13:14.568 --> 00:13:16.250
to work their rotator cuff down here at

00:13:16.269 --> 00:13:16.649
their side.

00:13:16.669 --> 00:13:17.150
And they're like, well,

00:13:17.191 --> 00:13:18.490
my pain is only when I'm hanging from

00:13:18.530 --> 00:13:18.811
a bar.

00:13:19.130 --> 00:13:19.711
Like, how do I...

00:13:20.532 --> 00:13:22.133
How do I translate this to that?

00:13:22.613 --> 00:13:24.274
One of my patients when I first had

00:13:24.293 --> 00:13:27.556
school was a silks artist recreationally.

00:13:27.936 --> 00:13:29.657
And she called us one day and was

00:13:29.677 --> 00:13:29.797
like,

00:13:29.817 --> 00:13:32.077
I just dislocated my shoulder at the gym.

00:13:32.658 --> 00:13:33.678
I'm driving over there.

00:13:33.798 --> 00:13:34.658
My boss turns to me and goes,

00:13:34.778 --> 00:13:35.178
this is you.

00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:39.302
We got it back.

00:13:40.383 --> 00:13:41.024
She went and saw.

00:13:41.043 --> 00:13:41.264
I was like,

00:13:41.283 --> 00:13:42.345
you still should go to the emergency room.

00:13:42.365 --> 00:13:43.466
You still go see your physician.

00:13:43.485 --> 00:13:43.885
She did.

00:13:44.527 --> 00:13:46.629
She came to me, and I remember explaining,

00:13:46.668 --> 00:13:48.109
like, not above .

00:13:48.129 --> 00:13:48.710
Like, nothing above .

00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:50.111
We're going to work everything down below.

00:13:50.131 --> 00:13:50.912
When you go home, nothing above .

00:13:51.352 --> 00:13:52.634
She dislocated again, and she goes,

00:13:53.173 --> 00:13:54.455
I wasn't above .

00:13:53.914 --> 00:13:54.414
I was like,

00:13:54.455 --> 00:13:55.515
show me what you were doing.

00:13:55.535 --> 00:13:56.876
She's like, I was upside down.

00:13:57.017 --> 00:13:57.498
And I was like,

00:13:57.677 --> 00:13:59.899
and your arm was just straight up,

00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:01.821
but it's not above .

00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:01.961
No, my butt was over my head.

00:14:02.062 --> 00:14:02.282
Yeah.

00:14:02.341 --> 00:14:03.082
And I'm like, okay.

00:14:03.870 --> 00:14:05.152
We'll just talk about anatomical position.

00:14:05.172 --> 00:14:05.732
That's my bad.

00:14:05.812 --> 00:14:07.414
That's my bad.

00:14:07.455 --> 00:14:08.475
Parting shot, everyone.

00:14:08.676 --> 00:14:09.376
Last chance.

00:14:09.876 --> 00:14:10.638
Mic drop moment.

00:14:10.857 --> 00:14:11.519
Soapbox statement.

00:14:11.538 --> 00:14:12.659
What do you want to leave with everybody

00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:13.400
as we wrap up?

00:14:13.889 --> 00:14:14.129
Um,

00:14:14.168 --> 00:14:16.211
circus artists are amazing and deserve

00:14:16.691 --> 00:14:18.272
really the best skilled care that you can

00:14:18.312 --> 00:14:18.532
get.

00:14:18.912 --> 00:14:20.813
Please take the time to understand them a

00:14:20.833 --> 00:14:23.215
little bit better and, uh, and be curious.

00:14:23.674 --> 00:14:23.995
Yeah.

00:14:24.035 --> 00:14:24.515
Be curious.

00:14:24.576 --> 00:14:25.636
And then I'll put it in the show

00:14:25.657 --> 00:14:25.856
notes,

00:14:25.897 --> 00:14:27.077
but when people want to follow along.

00:14:27.477 --> 00:14:27.697
Yeah.

00:14:27.758 --> 00:14:28.458
I'm at the circus.

00:14:28.578 --> 00:14:29.038
The circus.

00:14:29.099 --> 00:14:30.620
No underscore.

00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:31.581
Yeah.

00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:32.701
The circus duck.

00:14:32.942 --> 00:14:33.422
Yeah.

00:14:33.562 --> 00:14:34.101
Emily, appreciate it.

00:14:34.162 --> 00:14:34.682
Enjoy your conference.

00:14:34.702 --> 00:14:35.702
Jimmy, thank you so much for your time.

00:14:35.822 --> 00:14:38.085
And we out.