Why Patients Quit PT After Visit 3

WEBVTT

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Broadcasting way too early from three

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separate Wi-Fi connections.

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It's PT Breakfast Club with Tony Meritato,

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Dave Kittle, and Jimmy McKay.

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All right.

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Happy Thursday,

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July ninth for PT Breakfast Club.

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I'm Jimmy McKay.

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That's Dave Kittle.

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Tony Meritato is holding down the fort.

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Didn't he have some people out on

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vacation?

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He's holding down the fort.

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Um,

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today I want to talk about a text

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exchange that you shared in the group

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chat.

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And I don't think there's anything special

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about it.

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And I think that's why I want to

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share it is there's nothing special about

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it,

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except I think sometimes people over

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complicate this exchange where I think

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your exchange was just simple and basic

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and nothing flashy about it.

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So like set the stage, who was this?

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And like, just like, you know,

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paint the picture.

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Yeah,

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prospective client that was reaching out.

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And if someone is not always,

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but it doesn't matter the age always,

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but someone who reached out that's like

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twenty or thirty,

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like they're typically they're like a

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little bit more in tune.

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So they're usually saying things like,

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do you take my insurance?

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But then they'll double down.

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They'll say, like,

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are you guys in network?

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Because they probably got burned or they

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got surprised elsewhere recently or before

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with like.

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and we never want that we never want

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someone to like come to our office and

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then find out that we're out of network

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right so we are like over we want

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to over communicate up front it reduces

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conversion rates but it also results in

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like no poor online reviews about billing

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or you know nefarious activity or secret

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you know like um bait and switch whatever

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type of stuff so it was a prospective

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client that had reached out um obviously

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in this example like the diagnosis is

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irrelevant so

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they were in a text exchange.

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We were in a text exchange and they

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said, hey,

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would this be in-network or

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out-of-network?

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And then we said, we're out-of-network,

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are you only looking for the lowest cost

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slash in-network, question mark,

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or fastest results, question mark.

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Now,

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the in-network practice owners out there

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will not like that because I'm kind of

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framing us as faster results,

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but arguably,

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if you had more one-on-one time with more

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patients,

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I believe you can get results faster.

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Now, of course,

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in-network practice owners that have

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twenty, thirty years of experience,

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they can probably get faster results than

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I can, even if they're treating, you know,

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three patients or four patients at the

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same time.

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Right.

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Because they're just so experienced and

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they're way more efficient and all that.

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But I'm talking about like staff P.T.

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compared to staff P.T.

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across the country.

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anyway so that's how i wrote it then

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this person wrote back in network so i

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i asked hey are you only looking for

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the lowest cost slash in network question

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mark or fastest results question mark they

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replied in network my out of network

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deductible is super high so that's this is

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totally fine but we want to like flush

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this out like we want to make sure

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um

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we want to communicate and get clarity on

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like the person and there's nothing wrong

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with this like they're just a little more

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cost conscious like if i was i think

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this i think this person reaching out was

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like in their twenties right so if you

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don't have your parents paying for

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everything and you live in new york city

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and you're and you're in your twenties i

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totally get it if you have out of

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network uh and not a network deductible

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that was like i forget what it was

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for him but it was um

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It was probably I think it was closer

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to ten grand.

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Right.

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So it's like you got to pay ten

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grand out of pocket before you're out of

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network will cover at eighty or seventy or

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one hundred percent or whatever.

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Right.

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So when I moved to New York City

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in twenty twenty in twenty fourteen,

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I I could put myself in these shoes.

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I totally get it.

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Right.

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So.

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this this individual had you know said

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that they're specifically looking for in

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network now at that point um we're not

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going to book them or anything like that

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because we know that we are not in

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network and we want to be completely clear

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so then i wrote totally understand within

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network the therapist is usually treating

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two or three or four plus patients at

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the same time if you ever get frustrated

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with that model and want more time and

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attention

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feel free to reach back out to Concierge

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Pain Relief.

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And I was actually,

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one of the reasons why I shared this

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with you and Tony in the chat privately

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is because they replied thank you with an

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exclamation point.

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I mean, that's great.

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I feel like, hey,

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we've established some communication where

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this person is budget constrained and

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that's totally fine.

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We don't want to make people feel bad

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if they can't afford us or they don't

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want to pay out of pocket more to

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work with us.

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That's totally fine.

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Even the in-network places,

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we've talked about this before,

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even the in-network places are now

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stopping to take,

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they're not taking some insurances, right?

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So they're not taking GHIs and they're not

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taking some of the lower paying.

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a lot of them are dropping

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UnitedHealthcare.

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So the beneficiaries of those plans across

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the country,

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even in New York and New York State,

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New York City,

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but also across the country,

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all those practices can't serve everyone

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either.

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They are choosing not to serve everyone

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because the plans are just lower.

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They're just so low that it doesn't even

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cover their costs to deliver a visit.

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So I liked that this person wrote back,

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texted back, thank you, excellent point.

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And now...

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i've also foreshadowed by the way like

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they could they could go somewhere and

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have an amazing experience at some of the

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other network practices in the in the city

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where they go for they have thirty minutes

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one-on-one with the pt then the next

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thirty minutes is like

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some of the therapeutic exercise with like

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a tech or an aid which obviously is

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not not really legal but like and they

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still bill they still bill for that's

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another conversation but i planted a seed

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in this person's head this is this is

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obviously on purpose i planted the seed

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and i said hey you know when that's

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totally cool and i don't want to make

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someone feel bad but if you're going to

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go in network that's totally fine get it

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but

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But that model is going to be typically

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the therapist treating two, three,

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four patients at the same time.

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And what I oftentimes hear now recently

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is,

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patient will go and have an amazing first

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visit.

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And they'll be like, oh,

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the first visit was like one on one

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for like a whole hour with the therapist.

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And then I went back and then it

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was twenty seven minutes with the first

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therapist.

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Then I went back for visit number three

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and it was a different therapist.

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And that was also thirty minutes only

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total or whatever.

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Or or or they say I went back

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for visit number three and my therapist

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was treating for four people at the same

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time.

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So that, unfortunately,

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because of the crunch in payment

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reimbursement,

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a lot of these practices have to make

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it up on volume.

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You know that.

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Everyone that's watching or listening

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knows that.

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And therefore,

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they're delivering sometimes, oftentimes,

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not always, but oftentimes,

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the network practices have to deliver more

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on volume.

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And when it's more about volume,

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then you can't deliver a consistent

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product or service.

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meaning the services, the product.

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You can't deliver something that's

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consistent.

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And when it's not consistent,

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you get people that say,

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the first visit was amazing.

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It was one hour with Dr. Tom.

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Whole hour, one-on-one.

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I couldn't believe it.

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It was amazing.

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I'm going to stay forever.

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Visit number two.

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Oh, now it's like,

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thirty minutes and it was like a little

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rushed or a little busy, but like,

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it was good.

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It was good enough.

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It was good enough.

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It was decent or whatever.

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It was cool.

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It was good.

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It's fine.

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And then visit number three,

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it's a different person.

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Now the second therapist, Dr. Mary,

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is asking me all these questions that I

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already told Tom twice,

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and they're in the medical record,

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in the EMR.

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Dr.

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Mary is asking me all these questions as

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if they didn't talk and didn't

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communicate, or it's like new exercises,

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or it's redundant stuff.

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And so now it's like, oh, that's like...

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So now the person that's going to book,

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the patient that's going to book visit

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number four and five and six or seven,

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or if they're making them book all the

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visits up front or multiple weeks up front

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before they leave,

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now there's doubt in their head.

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And they're like, I mean,

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is this going to be like a wild

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card every time I come in?

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I want it to be consistent.

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And that, unfortunately,

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is in a nutshell why...

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What's the stat like?

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Ninety one percent of people don't finish

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their plan of care.

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I mean, that's part of it.

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There's a lot of other things.

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But let's let's let's banter.

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Let's go back and forth on this text

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and this whole kind of like scenario.

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Well, I mean, Larry,

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I just had a conversation with Larry Benz

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not long ago,

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and he talked about that that.

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Visit three drop off,

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which you just sort of what everybody

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says, oh, it's visit three.

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Why is it visit three?

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Walk me through that.

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And that's one example.

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And but that is the prevailing example.

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I, of course,

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like to break everything down or boil

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everything down.

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Let's go back to what you did.

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You didn't frame in or out of network.

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You framed quality versus question mark.

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That's even better.

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Or I just...

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Because I want to be nice to the

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in-network practice owners out there.

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I respect them.

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So I'm framing it as...

00:09:29.998 --> 00:09:31.658
different experiences so i don't i don't

00:09:31.678 --> 00:09:32.759
want to i don't want to i don't

00:09:32.779 --> 00:09:34.019
want to i don't want to say that

00:09:34.059 --> 00:09:35.480
we're elevated and i don't want to prove

00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:37.481
that so like what you did was you're

00:09:37.501 --> 00:09:39.403
like hey that's great totally understand

00:09:39.423 --> 00:09:40.864
that in your brain you're like i was

00:09:40.923 --> 00:09:42.504
twenty as well if that was the choice

00:09:42.625 --> 00:09:44.706
i'd probably be making that one just so

00:09:44.745 --> 00:09:47.847
you know and so you're foreshadowing which

00:09:47.888 --> 00:09:49.427
is a great line too which is like

00:09:50.229 --> 00:09:53.070
if you haven't done this it's also great

00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:53.951
too because they might be like yeah i

00:09:53.971 --> 00:09:55.231
don't think so and then when they get

00:09:55.272 --> 00:09:56.052
there they're like oh

00:09:57.437 --> 00:09:58.660
this is exactly what he said.

00:09:59.121 --> 00:10:00.264
And that's like exception-y.

00:10:00.926 --> 00:10:03.852
And some patients reach back out in two

00:10:03.873 --> 00:10:04.754
weeks, two months, whatever.

00:10:04.794 --> 00:10:06.038
And they're like, oh, like I...

00:10:07.573 --> 00:10:09.014
it started off good or,

00:10:09.095 --> 00:10:10.176
and obviously I'm not going to mention any

00:10:10.216 --> 00:10:11.557
names or practices, but like they'll,

00:10:11.697 --> 00:10:12.739
they'll reach back out and be like,

00:10:12.798 --> 00:10:14.941
Oh my gosh, like you, like it was,

00:10:15.041 --> 00:10:15.400
it was,

00:10:15.501 --> 00:10:16.962
it was better than I thought it was

00:10:16.982 --> 00:10:18.163
going to be then.

00:10:18.745 --> 00:10:20.125
And then it turned into exactly what you

00:10:20.166 --> 00:10:20.446
said.

00:10:20.947 --> 00:10:22.548
And it's not even always practices.

00:10:22.727 --> 00:10:24.309
Sometimes it's like you have great

00:10:24.350 --> 00:10:26.412
therapists working in a model that there's

00:10:26.491 --> 00:10:28.173
no possible way that they could do that

00:10:28.193 --> 00:10:29.575
because their hands are tied.

00:10:29.894 --> 00:10:31.395
so what you what we're really doing or

00:10:31.416 --> 00:10:32.456
what we're really talking about is

00:10:32.515 --> 00:10:34.657
expectations versus reality if you've

00:10:34.736 --> 00:10:36.677
never been to pt and you've only seen

00:10:36.736 --> 00:10:38.618
it on tv or heard it from a

00:10:38.677 --> 00:10:41.938
friend you're sort of expecting something

00:10:41.979 --> 00:10:43.399
like that you've heard and then when you

00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:45.841
get there if it isn't like that you

00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:48.100
might give it another chance or two but

00:10:48.140 --> 00:10:51.322
then we're humans and then we're gonna go

00:10:51.342 --> 00:10:53.283
i'm not feeling better and i've already

00:10:53.302 --> 00:10:54.884
invested time and effort and money

00:10:56.129 --> 00:10:57.870
And my expectation does not match my

00:10:57.910 --> 00:10:58.370
reality.

00:10:58.510 --> 00:10:59.532
Therefore, I leave.

00:10:59.852 --> 00:11:02.774
And that is such a human response.

00:11:03.216 --> 00:11:04.736
I was reading something yesterday where

00:11:04.756 --> 00:11:05.138
they said,

00:11:05.317 --> 00:11:08.360
if you launched a video game where seventy

00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:10.423
percent of the people played the game

00:11:10.462 --> 00:11:12.104
three times and then never played it

00:11:12.124 --> 00:11:13.525
again, would you blame the player?

00:11:15.322 --> 00:11:16.163
No, you blame the game.

00:11:16.623 --> 00:11:18.403
You'd say the game shocks have redesigned

00:11:18.423 --> 00:11:18.683
the game.

00:11:18.924 --> 00:11:19.804
But we love to go,

00:11:20.145 --> 00:11:21.687
no one does their home exercise plan.

00:11:22.086 --> 00:11:23.888
And I'm like, okay, same thing.

00:11:23.927 --> 00:11:26.129
If you developed a service,

00:11:26.690 --> 00:11:28.991
you sell pizzas and people try you three

00:11:29.032 --> 00:11:30.712
times and then they ghost you.

00:11:31.433 --> 00:11:33.816
I would start changing up who's cooking

00:11:33.836 --> 00:11:36.837
the pizzas or something or start looking

00:11:36.878 --> 00:11:37.638
at yourself a lot.

00:11:37.677 --> 00:11:39.919
And we in healthcare don't do that for

00:11:39.980 --> 00:11:41.421
some reason.

00:11:41.581 --> 00:11:42.422
I don't know why.

00:11:43.072 --> 00:11:45.673
obviously like it this is so we've talked

00:11:45.714 --> 00:11:46.794
about this a million times and it's like

00:11:46.855 --> 00:11:48.255
so challenging because a lot of this in

00:11:48.275 --> 00:11:50.238
my opinion goes back to payment

00:11:50.278 --> 00:11:53.640
reimbursement but it's also like let's do

00:11:53.660 --> 00:11:55.361
a quick exercise right so if you're in

00:11:55.381 --> 00:11:57.943
that busy type of a clinic and the

00:11:57.984 --> 00:11:59.926
patient you know jimmy's the patient and

00:11:59.966 --> 00:12:01.826
we're at upstate physical therapy just a

00:12:01.907 --> 00:12:03.749
fake you know acme physical therapy place

00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:06.910
up there and it's a network and jimmy

00:12:06.951 --> 00:12:09.232
has that experience like good like great

00:12:09.273 --> 00:12:09.793
first visit

00:12:11.354 --> 00:12:12.673
Second visit, good.

00:12:12.994 --> 00:12:16.054
Third visit, like below expectations.

00:12:16.134 --> 00:12:17.296
And now questioning, like,

00:12:17.316 --> 00:12:18.855
does this even make sense to continue to

00:12:18.895 --> 00:12:19.135
pay?

00:12:19.296 --> 00:12:21.876
And why would I drive here and park

00:12:22.017 --> 00:12:24.277
and pay a twenty to fifty dollar copay

00:12:24.597 --> 00:12:26.158
when I don't know what to expect?

00:12:26.618 --> 00:12:27.758
Take time out of work,

00:12:27.817 --> 00:12:29.158
get babysitting for the kids,

00:12:29.239 --> 00:12:29.818
whatever it is.

00:12:30.359 --> 00:12:31.259
Right now.

00:12:31.418 --> 00:12:33.299
Now, Jimmy, the patient is questioning,

00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:34.700
like, does this even make sense?

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:36.660
And.

00:12:38.104 --> 00:12:39.787
yeah so it's it's a little bit on

00:12:39.807 --> 00:12:42.812
the therapist but they were hired and

00:12:42.852 --> 00:12:45.298
coached and trained or should have been on

00:12:45.317 --> 00:12:47.601
how to navigate whatever model they might

00:12:47.621 --> 00:12:47.881
be in

00:12:49.206 --> 00:12:53.070
So it's like part of the health insurance,

00:12:53.370 --> 00:12:55.272
you know, third party payers.

00:12:55.351 --> 00:12:56.832
But again, we know that's not changing.

00:12:57.192 --> 00:12:58.134
But right.

00:12:58.153 --> 00:12:59.434
Maybe it's also it's.

00:12:59.955 --> 00:13:00.174
Yeah.

00:13:00.215 --> 00:13:00.436
Well, no.

00:13:00.576 --> 00:13:00.755
Right.

00:13:01.817 --> 00:13:04.318
But then then you can say, OK, well,

00:13:04.599 --> 00:13:07.000
part of it is the payment reimbursement,

00:13:07.061 --> 00:13:08.601
which is like kind of one of like

00:13:08.902 --> 00:13:10.844
one or the main root causes of all

00:13:10.884 --> 00:13:12.164
this, this whole situation.

00:13:12.764 --> 00:13:14.306
But in like the day to day reality,

00:13:14.346 --> 00:13:15.706
it's like, OK,

00:13:15.787 --> 00:13:17.408
some blame maybe goes towards the

00:13:18.168 --> 00:13:19.629
a staff physical therapist or the front

00:13:19.649 --> 00:13:22.692
desk that's now on Jimmy's visit number

00:13:22.712 --> 00:13:23.974
three, it's a different therapist.

00:13:24.033 --> 00:13:26.456
And now Jimmy's got to explain everything

00:13:26.475 --> 00:13:27.956
all over again to a new therapist because

00:13:27.976 --> 00:13:29.619
they don't communicate because they're so

00:13:29.658 --> 00:13:29.918
busy,

00:13:29.958 --> 00:13:31.581
because there's so many patients per day

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:32.280
and so many notes.

00:13:33.923 --> 00:13:34.763
So then you just like, OK,

00:13:34.783 --> 00:13:35.864
so there's a little maybe there's a little

00:13:35.903 --> 00:13:36.904
blame for the therapist.

00:13:37.085 --> 00:13:38.866
Maybe there's a little blame for the

00:13:39.027 --> 00:13:39.287
admin,

00:13:39.307 --> 00:13:41.149
the front desk or the clinic director,

00:13:41.229 --> 00:13:43.451
which is typically a physical therapist.

00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:46.260
But then for us,

00:13:46.542 --> 00:13:47.943
so I'm a practice owner, obviously.

00:13:48.083 --> 00:13:50.807
And like the buck stops with me.

00:13:50.927 --> 00:13:51.850
Like ultimately it's,

00:13:52.190 --> 00:13:55.235
if I own that upstate physical therapy

00:13:55.274 --> 00:13:57.477
practice that Jimmy's coming to,

00:13:57.577 --> 00:13:58.198
it's my fault.

00:13:58.558 --> 00:14:00.221
It's my fault because I am like,

00:14:01.697 --> 00:14:04.399
participating in that model I didn't uh

00:14:04.438 --> 00:14:07.298
coach or train my therapist well enough to

00:14:07.359 --> 00:14:10.100
navigate like the switching or the front

00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:12.360
desk and they didn't communicate it I mean

00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.780
where my first job dude in New Jersey

00:14:14.860 --> 00:14:18.100
sometimes like patients would be switched

00:14:18.181 --> 00:14:20.001
patients would get a confirmation over

00:14:20.042 --> 00:14:21.461
text or email about hey you're going to

00:14:21.481 --> 00:14:24.783
be seeing Dr Dave tomorrow and then they

00:14:24.802 --> 00:14:26.302
come and uh

00:14:27.344 --> 00:14:28.904
I was never sick, but like if I,

00:14:28.965 --> 00:14:29.965
if I got too busy or whatever,

00:14:29.985 --> 00:14:31.285
like sometimes it would be like moving

00:14:31.346 --> 00:14:34.147
patients off my schedule to like Nick,

00:14:34.187 --> 00:14:34.386
the PTA.

00:14:34.407 --> 00:14:36.668
And it's like,

00:14:37.347 --> 00:14:38.609
of course people don't like that.

00:14:38.708 --> 00:14:40.289
Like they got a notification that says it

00:14:40.309 --> 00:14:41.070
was going to be with Dave.

00:14:41.450 --> 00:14:41.909
Now the show of,

00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:43.171
and now it's with Nick that they don't

00:14:43.191 --> 00:14:45.011
know as much or don't know as well.

00:14:45.412 --> 00:14:46.011
Sure.

00:14:46.091 --> 00:14:46.292
I mean,

00:14:46.331 --> 00:14:48.133
no wonder that we have this chronic issue

00:14:48.253 --> 00:14:49.433
in like crappy, uh,

00:14:50.345 --> 00:14:52.787
delivery of the service like the product

00:14:52.807 --> 00:14:55.567
of physical therapy this is where and

00:14:55.587 --> 00:14:57.450
there's multiple arguments that happen

00:14:57.590 --> 00:14:58.850
we've seen them a hundred times they

00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:00.250
happen they go round and round in circles

00:15:00.270 --> 00:15:02.212
they go nowhere this is where people

00:15:02.253 --> 00:15:06.695
comparing pt to personal training it's

00:15:06.715 --> 00:15:08.275
where personal training like kind of gets

00:15:08.316 --> 00:15:11.378
it right a lot that's your trainer forever

00:15:11.719 --> 00:15:13.399
like how often does a personal trainer

00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:15.140
switch a client maybe in extreme

00:15:15.201 --> 00:15:16.682
circumstances i don't know i've never used

00:15:16.721 --> 00:15:18.342
a trainer i've used a coach before

00:15:19.437 --> 00:15:21.339
And I'm not re-explaining the last six

00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:22.799
months of what we've been doing or my

00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.283
weird isms that maybe my coach has never

00:15:26.322 --> 00:15:27.464
even explained to me before.

00:15:27.504 --> 00:15:28.804
Maybe he's just like, oh, I get Jimmy.

00:15:28.884 --> 00:15:31.047
I understand how he works.

00:15:31.167 --> 00:15:31.787
I pay the coach.

00:15:31.826 --> 00:15:32.548
I get the coach.

00:15:32.888 --> 00:15:35.910
But in healthcare, in PT specifically,

00:15:36.530 --> 00:15:39.352
that's not the case.

00:15:39.433 --> 00:15:41.154
I don't know the percentages of how often

00:15:41.174 --> 00:15:41.754
you see a different...

00:15:41.975 --> 00:15:43.496
That'd be a good stat to have if

00:15:43.517 --> 00:15:44.557
you had a large enough data set.

00:15:45.663 --> 00:15:47.724
How can, what's your, what's your,

00:15:48.105 --> 00:15:49.826
what's your clinician patient batting

00:15:49.885 --> 00:15:50.265
average?

00:15:51.067 --> 00:15:52.488
Like how often is it bang?

00:15:52.908 --> 00:15:53.148
You know,

00:15:53.187 --> 00:15:56.671
in baseball pitchers have a catcher.

00:15:57.490 --> 00:15:58.812
That catcher might not be a great hitter.

00:15:58.871 --> 00:15:59.732
Pitcher's like, I don't care.

00:15:59.972 --> 00:16:00.974
I like how he catches the game.

00:16:01.514 --> 00:16:03.254
So I'm out there for seven innings,

00:16:03.816 --> 00:16:04.355
maybe more,

00:16:04.395 --> 00:16:06.256
hopefully that's who's catching.

00:16:06.457 --> 00:16:07.498
And that's why,

00:16:07.938 --> 00:16:09.119
because we know each other.

00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:09.940
We understand.

00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:10.821
I don't have to say anything.

00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:11.900
I give him a look and he's like,

00:16:11.941 --> 00:16:12.642
don't wave me off.

00:16:13.432 --> 00:16:15.953
Why do you think in the in-network PT

00:16:15.974 --> 00:16:17.474
world, there's that switching?

00:16:18.154 --> 00:16:19.274
Oh, it's just, like you said,

00:16:19.315 --> 00:16:20.815
you have to pull the volume lever,

00:16:21.296 --> 00:16:24.035
or you've got three clinicians,

00:16:24.255 --> 00:16:25.836
thirty-three clinicians.

00:16:25.897 --> 00:16:26.517
Yes, and?

00:16:26.537 --> 00:16:28.697
Oh, am I missing something?

00:16:28.717 --> 00:16:30.018
I don't know.

00:16:30.217 --> 00:16:33.778
So, also, like, okay, Jimmy,

00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:35.340
if you're paying a twenty dollar copay,

00:16:36.876 --> 00:16:38.178
Like,

00:16:38.198 --> 00:16:40.041
I feel like there's some what's the word?

00:16:40.642 --> 00:16:41.982
I feel like there's some I don't want

00:16:42.003 --> 00:16:42.823
to say disrespect,

00:16:42.844 --> 00:16:45.788
but I feel like there's like we know,

00:16:45.888 --> 00:16:47.188
like if you're paying a twenty dollar

00:16:47.208 --> 00:16:49.211
copay and we're going to move you around

00:16:49.231 --> 00:16:51.313
to a different clinician on your way into

00:16:51.354 --> 00:16:51.674
the clinic,

00:16:51.695 --> 00:16:52.796
like you don't even know what's happening.

00:16:52.816 --> 00:16:53.657
All right.

00:16:55.070 --> 00:16:56.490
or that morning or whatever and you're

00:16:56.530 --> 00:16:58.192
busy so like you don't see the update

00:16:58.211 --> 00:16:59.352
or whatever and you're so you're still

00:16:59.373 --> 00:17:00.793
going to come and then you're like oh

00:17:00.833 --> 00:17:01.774
i thought i was with dave and now

00:17:01.793 --> 00:17:03.455
i'm with nick or mary or whatever i

00:17:03.475 --> 00:17:05.115
haven't met them before so now and now

00:17:05.155 --> 00:17:06.497
i got to explain everything again because

00:17:06.517 --> 00:17:08.397
you guys don't communicate because you're

00:17:08.417 --> 00:17:13.020
so busy um it happens way more in

00:17:13.141 --> 00:17:14.741
in network and it's like okay would you

00:17:14.761 --> 00:17:16.002
be just paying like a twenty dollar copay

00:17:16.083 --> 00:17:17.763
now can you imagine if we did that

00:17:17.784 --> 00:17:19.184
where someone's paying three fifty a visit

00:17:19.484 --> 00:17:22.547
right what's the difference expectation

00:17:23.452 --> 00:17:24.935
I paid for this and got that,

00:17:25.056 --> 00:17:26.138
and I don't like that.

00:17:26.179 --> 00:17:27.040
I feel flim-flammed.

00:17:27.963 --> 00:17:29.865
But it's like in these in network world,

00:17:30.665 --> 00:17:32.346
these front desks or this therapist or

00:17:32.386 --> 00:17:33.547
whoever are like, ah,

00:17:33.586 --> 00:17:34.728
we're just like moving around or whatever.

00:17:34.788 --> 00:17:35.788
Cause it's almost like, well,

00:17:35.828 --> 00:17:37.849
it's so you're paying so low out of

00:17:37.890 --> 00:17:38.210
pocket.

00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:40.431
You have minimal skin in the game.

00:17:40.451 --> 00:17:40.912
So it's kind of like,

00:17:40.932 --> 00:17:42.532
I'll just move them around wherever.

00:17:42.553 --> 00:17:43.032
And it's kind of,

00:17:43.053 --> 00:17:44.073
it's kind of disrespectful.

00:17:44.433 --> 00:17:44.614
Yeah.

00:17:44.653 --> 00:17:45.614
I have to solve a problem,

00:17:45.634 --> 00:17:49.356
which is like slots and providers, right?

00:17:49.376 --> 00:17:51.678
Like I, you know, this person's out.

00:17:51.738 --> 00:17:52.858
So I've got to do this today.

00:17:53.737 --> 00:17:55.699
It's not an easy problem.

00:17:56.378 --> 00:17:59.342
It's a volume problem because you've

00:17:59.382 --> 00:18:00.242
chosen volume.

00:18:01.023 --> 00:18:02.424
You've chosen volume as the thing that you

00:18:02.464 --> 00:18:02.986
have to do.

00:18:03.385 --> 00:18:04.826
Based on this thing, and again,

00:18:05.247 --> 00:18:06.488
I'm not trying to pimp it too hard,

00:18:06.508 --> 00:18:08.230
but Larry Benz is writing about this

00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:08.470
stuff.

00:18:08.490 --> 00:18:09.391
This invisible...

00:18:09.810 --> 00:18:11.231
The article he had this week was about

00:18:11.271 --> 00:18:11.451
this.

00:18:11.791 --> 00:18:13.334
Who's in the room with you when it's

00:18:13.354 --> 00:18:16.115
like clinician, patient, payer.

00:18:16.195 --> 00:18:16.836
They're in the room.

00:18:16.855 --> 00:18:17.616
They're in your brain.

00:18:17.676 --> 00:18:20.838
They're on your shoulder going,

00:18:20.858 --> 00:18:22.099
we're not going to reimburse for that.

00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:23.821
And then you change your...

00:18:23.862 --> 00:18:25.303
I want Larry to do a video set

00:18:25.323 --> 00:18:26.624
where there's a devil and an angel.

00:18:26.644 --> 00:18:27.044
The devil's like,

00:18:27.064 --> 00:18:28.925
we're not going to reimburse for that.

00:18:32.172 --> 00:18:36.715
So do you think it is some disrespect

00:18:36.955 --> 00:18:39.458
of or like the because the because the

00:18:39.478 --> 00:18:42.420
person is indirectly they're paying for it

00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.382
through their insurance premium.

00:18:44.422 --> 00:18:46.182
But in terms of that thing,

00:18:46.384 --> 00:18:48.444
I think it's I have if I'm a

00:18:48.484 --> 00:18:50.247
clinic director and I've got ten

00:18:50.267 --> 00:18:53.009
clinicians, why do I juggle people?

00:18:53.088 --> 00:18:55.090
Because I'm when I'm given a hammer,

00:18:55.151 --> 00:18:56.050
the world is full of nails.

00:18:56.090 --> 00:18:57.352
I have to move people around.

00:18:57.712 --> 00:18:59.094
What would the other option be?

00:19:00.083 --> 00:19:01.522
Cause my goal is I need to stay

00:19:01.542 --> 00:19:02.003
above water.

00:19:02.044 --> 00:19:03.763
So that person's got a slot for an

00:19:03.844 --> 00:19:06.085
eval or to see Jimmy again.

00:19:07.384 --> 00:19:07.585
Yeah.

00:19:07.664 --> 00:19:07.884
Yes.

00:19:07.924 --> 00:19:08.525
It's about volume.

00:19:08.565 --> 00:19:10.506
My point is, okay.

00:19:10.526 --> 00:19:13.105
So, so, um, Ben Boggy has a practice,

00:19:13.306 --> 00:19:14.626
a big location in San Diego.

00:19:14.666 --> 00:19:15.846
I think they have like eight or something

00:19:15.886 --> 00:19:16.487
therapists there.

00:19:16.946 --> 00:19:19.087
So probably, I mean, it's bigger and any,

00:19:19.248 --> 00:19:19.948
and they're doing really well.

00:19:19.968 --> 00:19:21.588
He's got multiple locations and it's all

00:19:21.628 --> 00:19:21.888
cash.

00:19:22.148 --> 00:19:22.469
It's like,

00:19:23.088 --> 00:19:24.249
I think they're charging around two fifty,

00:19:24.269 --> 00:19:25.230
three fifty per visit.

00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:26.289
They sell packages, whatever.

00:19:27.276 --> 00:19:28.356
If you were in San Diego,

00:19:28.396 --> 00:19:30.018
if you were a client, Jimmy,

00:19:30.238 --> 00:19:31.118
of this practice,

00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.301
they're not going to just switch providers

00:19:35.542 --> 00:19:37.324
on you in the five hours leading up

00:19:37.344 --> 00:19:38.644
to your visit and not tell you.

00:19:38.684 --> 00:19:40.425
And you come into the office and you're

00:19:40.465 --> 00:19:42.307
like surprised.

00:19:42.567 --> 00:19:45.911
And because part of it is you...

00:19:47.781 --> 00:19:48.323
Are more,

00:19:48.623 --> 00:19:49.924
I think part of it is you're more

00:19:49.964 --> 00:19:51.425
valuable because you ponied up a lot of

00:19:51.445 --> 00:19:54.068
this money out of pocket directly and they

00:19:54.088 --> 00:19:54.490
want to over,

00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:56.251
they want to over communicate like, Hey,

00:19:56.571 --> 00:19:58.213
listen, so-and-so is not available today.

00:19:58.273 --> 00:20:00.036
Do you want to just reschedule this for

00:20:00.056 --> 00:20:00.576
a different day?

00:20:00.676 --> 00:20:02.439
Or do you want to try a coverage

00:20:02.459 --> 00:20:03.760
visit with one of our other therapists?

00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:04.761
And here's their name, here's,

00:20:04.922 --> 00:20:06.022
here's their bio, all that.

00:20:06.864 --> 00:20:09.145
Because they make more per person so they

00:20:09.165 --> 00:20:10.507
can be... Right.

00:20:10.547 --> 00:20:11.867
So Ben's place,

00:20:11.948 --> 00:20:12.969
if you can use that example,

00:20:13.009 --> 00:20:16.090
is like I'm seeing eight a day versus

00:20:16.111 --> 00:20:17.672
another place I'm seeing sixteen.

00:20:17.731 --> 00:20:19.114
I'm just making those numbers up, right?

00:20:20.474 --> 00:20:22.336
It's not as easy to find a new

00:20:22.576 --> 00:20:24.837
slot when you're seeing sixteen,

00:20:25.458 --> 00:20:26.519
especially if that person's like,

00:20:26.638 --> 00:20:27.579
I need to be seen today.

00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:28.740
So there it is.

00:20:29.761 --> 00:20:32.564
It's you've chosen time or volume.

00:20:33.903 --> 00:20:35.163
And when you choose volume,

00:20:35.223 --> 00:20:37.286
there's less room because you've sold more

00:20:37.306 --> 00:20:40.388
of your time in smaller increments.

00:20:40.429 --> 00:20:43.071
So the volume part and then through

00:20:43.112 --> 00:20:44.833
in-network insurance,

00:20:45.713 --> 00:20:47.035
the practice is going to make less per

00:20:47.076 --> 00:20:48.616
visit and less per plan of care.

00:20:48.957 --> 00:20:50.739
So they're just forced.

00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.060
Their hands are tied.

00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:53.280
Right.

00:20:54.241 --> 00:20:54.502
Right.

00:20:54.883 --> 00:20:56.084
And they...

00:20:57.518 --> 00:21:00.159
Also know that there's it's just easier to

00:21:00.219 --> 00:21:00.538
fill that.

00:21:00.739 --> 00:21:00.939
Like,

00:21:00.979 --> 00:21:02.459
let's say Jimmy gets pissed off on that

00:21:02.479 --> 00:21:04.220
third visit and he's like, you know,

00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:04.819
I can't.

00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:05.559
And then he drops off,

00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:06.520
which happens all the time.

00:21:06.621 --> 00:21:07.161
I mean, it happens.

00:21:07.381 --> 00:21:09.080
We get some drop offs and we're not

00:21:09.101 --> 00:21:09.942
the right fit for everyone.

00:21:09.981 --> 00:21:12.761
But obviously it's way more in the network

00:21:12.782 --> 00:21:12.982
world.

00:21:13.002 --> 00:21:13.643
So then now Jimmy,

00:21:13.663 --> 00:21:15.682
the patient drops off visit number three

00:21:16.463 --> 00:21:17.463
in the network world.

00:21:17.503 --> 00:21:18.624
They don't care as much.

00:21:18.683 --> 00:21:20.045
Why do they not care as much?

00:21:20.085 --> 00:21:21.025
Thirty eight people behind me.

00:21:21.846 --> 00:21:22.266
Exactly.

00:21:22.326 --> 00:21:24.208
Because it's a low barrier to entry.

00:21:24.847 --> 00:21:25.567
It's in network.

00:21:25.868 --> 00:21:27.589
They accept a ton of insurances.

00:21:27.829 --> 00:21:28.670
There's always going to be the next

00:21:28.710 --> 00:21:28.869
person.

00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:30.270
All right, next person, step right up.

00:21:30.451 --> 00:21:31.412
You know, like McDonald's.

00:21:31.892 --> 00:21:32.853
Whereas a cash practice,

00:21:32.873 --> 00:21:35.835
it's like for us to convert somebody to

00:21:35.875 --> 00:21:37.415
then pay two fifty,

00:21:37.435 --> 00:21:39.017
three fifty per visit out of pocket or

00:21:39.057 --> 00:21:40.478
for the eval and then sell a package,

00:21:40.498 --> 00:21:40.857
whatever.

00:21:41.317 --> 00:21:43.259
Like the stakes are a little bit higher.

00:21:43.318 --> 00:21:44.160
I don't know how much higher,

00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:44.759
but they're higher.

00:21:45.221 --> 00:21:47.001
Do you estimate your customer acquisition

00:21:47.021 --> 00:21:47.382
costs?

00:21:48.907 --> 00:21:51.288
Yeah, I haven't updated it in a while.

00:21:52.109 --> 00:21:53.650
I would love to see yours.

00:21:53.890 --> 00:21:55.451
We can use AI.

00:21:56.050 --> 00:21:59.212
What would be average cash pay clinics

00:21:59.252 --> 00:22:01.153
customer acquisition cost versus an

00:22:01.673 --> 00:22:03.275
in-network customer acquisition cost?

00:22:03.934 --> 00:22:05.076
I would love to see the difference in

00:22:05.096 --> 00:22:05.336
that.

00:22:05.476 --> 00:22:05.675
I mean,

00:22:06.215 --> 00:22:07.936
my expectation is yours is way higher.

00:22:09.594 --> 00:22:10.114
Yeah, of course.

00:22:10.173 --> 00:22:13.355
So round figures,

00:22:13.536 --> 00:22:15.477
it used to be like a hundred dollars

00:22:15.557 --> 00:22:17.317
and sometimes it goes to above a hundred

00:22:17.336 --> 00:22:18.678
dollars and sometimes it goes down to like

00:22:18.718 --> 00:22:19.377
twenty six dollars.

00:22:19.417 --> 00:22:20.358
But in general,

00:22:20.398 --> 00:22:23.680
it's like it's like a hundred dollars cost

00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.340
per lead for someone to like either call

00:22:26.421 --> 00:22:27.902
in or write into our Web site.

00:22:28.882 --> 00:22:30.522
which is the lead just to get their

00:22:30.563 --> 00:22:31.343
contact information,

00:22:32.203 --> 00:22:34.384
not then the time and effort to call

00:22:34.424 --> 00:22:36.165
them and then convert them and then book

00:22:36.185 --> 00:22:37.605
them and then make sure that they show

00:22:37.665 --> 00:22:39.267
up or home visit or office visit or

00:22:39.287 --> 00:22:39.586
whatever.

00:22:40.107 --> 00:22:43.648
So acquisition cost is probably closer to

00:22:43.669 --> 00:22:46.230
like two hundred bucks.

00:22:46.269 --> 00:22:47.211
So you're breaking even,

00:22:47.671 --> 00:22:49.112
you're at least in the black on the

00:22:49.152 --> 00:22:50.673
first visit because you're like,

00:22:50.712 --> 00:22:51.732
I know what I charge,

00:22:51.792 --> 00:22:53.074
I know what it costs to get a

00:22:53.114 --> 00:22:53.473
patient

00:22:54.209 --> 00:22:55.790
Well, still a loss because of labor,

00:22:55.851 --> 00:22:56.030
right?

00:22:56.050 --> 00:22:57.813
So if you take away the acquisition costs

00:22:58.433 --> 00:23:00.896
and labor, then, but yeah,

00:23:01.057 --> 00:23:03.118
by visit two or three, there's profit,

00:23:03.159 --> 00:23:03.339
right?

00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.941
But the point is to be like

00:23:05.061 --> 00:23:05.902
over-delivering.

00:23:05.923 --> 00:23:07.904
That's why it's not falling off.

00:23:08.885 --> 00:23:09.306
Exactly.

00:23:09.326 --> 00:23:11.548
You just lost money on this experience.

00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:12.569
Yeah.

00:23:12.670 --> 00:23:13.912
That would be a great start to see.

00:23:14.970 --> 00:23:17.451
um okay so that was good that we

00:23:17.491 --> 00:23:18.913
talked about that i thought that one

00:23:18.953 --> 00:23:21.796
little screenshot says a lot and i think

00:23:21.816 --> 00:23:23.297
there's a lesson in there for people

00:23:23.597 --> 00:23:24.999
whether they want to learn it or not

00:23:25.398 --> 00:23:27.540
and i don't remember hearing that at all

00:23:27.560 --> 00:23:29.502
i'm not saying it doesn't happen but in

00:23:29.542 --> 00:23:32.204
pt school i don't it's not really the

00:23:32.244 --> 00:23:35.748
place for it but uh yeah now just

00:23:35.887 --> 00:23:37.750
just to close the loop on this if

00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:39.090
you're a cash practice owner out of

00:23:39.111 --> 00:23:41.272
network owner and you have people that

00:23:41.393 --> 00:23:42.334
balk at your pricing

00:23:43.483 --> 00:23:44.987
and they want to go in network or

00:23:45.007 --> 00:23:45.948
they want to go somewhere cheaper or

00:23:45.968 --> 00:23:47.911
whatever, feel free to take that text.

00:23:48.332 --> 00:23:50.134
You need to be texting or emailing that

00:23:50.234 --> 00:23:51.617
or saying it to them over the phone

00:23:51.698 --> 00:23:53.320
and then putting it in text or email

00:23:53.601 --> 00:23:55.324
so they have it digitally so that they

00:23:55.344 --> 00:23:56.425
can refer back to it later.

00:23:56.726 --> 00:23:56.865
Yeah.

00:23:57.662 --> 00:23:59.482
you absolutely need to be saying something

00:23:59.522 --> 00:24:01.624
like that because why are you different,

00:24:01.663 --> 00:24:01.864
right?

00:24:01.884 --> 00:24:02.744
You're going to say, oh, well,

00:24:02.805 --> 00:24:04.244
priority scheduling and all you have to do

00:24:04.306 --> 00:24:05.286
is text me to schedule.

00:24:05.566 --> 00:24:06.946
And if you want to go to upstate

00:24:06.967 --> 00:24:09.688
New York PT that takes your network

00:24:09.748 --> 00:24:10.828
insurance, that's fine.

00:24:10.848 --> 00:24:12.450
But then you got to like call in,

00:24:12.730 --> 00:24:14.270
you know, press one, press two,

00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:15.951
get the person on the phone.

00:24:16.152 --> 00:24:18.053
They're going to put you on hold, right?

00:24:18.093 --> 00:24:18.752
So it's just,

00:24:18.792 --> 00:24:20.713
there's just more resistance to the volume

00:24:20.753 --> 00:24:21.934
game and that's fine.

00:24:21.954 --> 00:24:23.335
But so you got to call out the

00:24:23.415 --> 00:24:25.757
things that you personally

00:24:26.696 --> 00:24:27.357
We talked about it before,

00:24:27.377 --> 00:24:28.278
like features and benefits.

00:24:28.298 --> 00:24:29.319
You got to call out the things of

00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:31.942
like what they get with you or the

00:24:32.042 --> 00:24:34.865
challenging potentially issue type things

00:24:35.246 --> 00:24:38.348
that they might experience if they go to

00:24:38.409 --> 00:24:39.190
one of your competitors.

00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:40.290
So you could say it in like a

00:24:40.351 --> 00:24:41.711
nice playing field kind of way,

00:24:42.452 --> 00:24:43.032
but call it out.

00:24:43.594 --> 00:24:44.273
I'm in upstate New York.

00:24:44.334 --> 00:24:46.395
I got one nice restaurant in my town.

00:24:46.557 --> 00:24:46.676
One.

00:24:47.699 --> 00:24:49.300
If I call and I go, hey, man,

00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:50.301
you got a reservation?

00:24:50.501 --> 00:24:51.363
And they're like, yeah.

00:24:51.502 --> 00:24:51.863
And I'm like,

00:24:52.463 --> 00:24:54.244
what's average cost of dinner?

00:24:54.345 --> 00:24:54.826
And they're like,

00:24:54.965 --> 00:24:56.067
eighty three dollars a person.

00:24:56.166 --> 00:24:56.968
I'm like, my man,

00:24:57.288 --> 00:24:58.449
I got McDonald's down the road.

00:24:58.469 --> 00:24:59.170
Why wouldn't I go there?

00:24:59.210 --> 00:25:01.192
They're going to go have at it and

00:25:01.231 --> 00:25:03.734
hang up because they understand what they

00:25:03.775 --> 00:25:04.154
provide.

00:25:04.595 --> 00:25:05.916
I need you to start thinking about that.

00:25:06.217 --> 00:25:07.979
It's McDonald's isn't bad.

00:25:09.005 --> 00:25:09.565
It's just different.

00:25:09.664 --> 00:25:12.067
Because after I play a beer league hockey

00:25:12.106 --> 00:25:13.907
game and we get out at midnight or

00:25:14.107 --> 00:25:14.689
one in the morning,

00:25:15.308 --> 00:25:16.250
that nice restaurant ain't open.

00:25:16.750 --> 00:25:17.411
And what am I doing?

00:25:17.451 --> 00:25:18.471
But I know what I'm getting.

00:25:18.971 --> 00:25:20.353
So understand that you know what you're

00:25:20.373 --> 00:25:20.633
getting.

00:25:21.413 --> 00:25:23.233
I want to change topics, but not really.

00:25:24.515 --> 00:25:25.796
This is another screenshot that you

00:25:25.816 --> 00:25:26.175
shared.

00:25:26.696 --> 00:25:28.198
So I'll put the stat on there.

00:25:29.246 --> 00:25:30.346
Gyms have a new third place.

00:25:31.046 --> 00:25:32.926
And I brought this up a couple weeks

00:25:32.967 --> 00:25:33.646
ago where I said,

00:25:33.686 --> 00:25:34.926
if I were opening a gym now and

00:25:34.967 --> 00:25:36.366
I gave the things that I would do

00:25:36.528 --> 00:25:40.127
outside of squat racks, dumbbells,

00:25:40.208 --> 00:25:40.768
treadmills,

00:25:41.848 --> 00:25:45.108
I would also have some things to make

00:25:45.169 --> 00:25:46.009
it a third place.

00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:47.369
And just for context, again,

00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:48.329
the third place is...

00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:49.950
The first place is home.

00:25:50.810 --> 00:25:51.750
Second place is work.

00:25:51.790 --> 00:25:53.351
And this is where you spend time or

00:25:53.391 --> 00:25:54.211
where you seek out.

00:25:55.451 --> 00:25:57.392
Bars used to be the third place.

00:25:58.467 --> 00:25:59.667
Still are, probably, right?

00:25:59.968 --> 00:26:02.509
And then which big company was trying to

00:26:02.529 --> 00:26:03.830
be the third place, let's say,

00:26:03.871 --> 00:26:05.133
in the last twenty years?

00:26:05.833 --> 00:26:06.993
Like a brick-and-mortar place?

00:26:08.295 --> 00:26:11.317
Which company was trying to be... No,

00:26:11.417 --> 00:26:12.798
that's digital.

00:26:13.378 --> 00:26:15.580
Which company was trying to be the third

00:26:15.641 --> 00:26:16.622
place?

00:26:16.642 --> 00:26:18.663
Do I know it?

00:26:18.743 --> 00:26:19.384
Is it a bar?

00:26:19.544 --> 00:26:20.424
No, it can't be a bar.

00:26:22.086 --> 00:26:22.727
Oh, Starbucks.

00:26:23.847 --> 00:26:24.367
Coffee shops.

00:26:25.509 --> 00:26:27.029
And that's the non-alcoholic

00:26:27.855 --> 00:26:29.557
open your laptop i remember in the

00:26:29.596 --> 00:26:32.398
beginning of like wi-fi in like businesses

00:26:32.778 --> 00:26:34.601
they'd never tell you the password or you

00:26:34.621 --> 00:26:36.682
have to buy something and now they're like

00:26:37.103 --> 00:26:40.244
it's like the bathroom code you gotta buy

00:26:40.285 --> 00:26:41.806
something for the bathroom the large

00:26:41.826 --> 00:26:44.047
cities don't understand the stress of the

00:26:44.086 --> 00:26:45.627
bathroom code you do you know that there's

00:26:45.667 --> 00:26:47.068
a secret you can go to like yelp

00:26:47.430 --> 00:26:48.369
if you ever want to get a bathroom

00:26:48.410 --> 00:26:50.211
code there will be heroes that will do

00:26:50.251 --> 00:26:51.593
yelp reviews and they'll put it

00:26:52.373 --> 00:26:54.034
in the in the album that's that's an

00:26:54.094 --> 00:26:56.795
aside so anyway this is the this is

00:26:56.815 --> 00:26:58.796
a graph showing and i gotta zoom in

00:26:58.855 --> 00:27:03.377
here number of us locations indexed from

00:27:03.577 --> 00:27:09.641
i'm trying to figure this graph out anyway

00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:11.781
it's showing gyms and studios fitness

00:27:11.801 --> 00:27:15.983
studios outpacing bars and nightclubs uh

00:27:16.183 --> 00:27:18.746
social clubs bowling alleys and movie

00:27:18.766 --> 00:27:19.105
theaters

00:27:20.403 --> 00:27:22.224
Bowling Alley says come hang out,

00:27:23.865 --> 00:27:24.965
but every minute you're there,

00:27:25.006 --> 00:27:25.586
you're paying.

00:27:26.866 --> 00:27:28.928
Like every game, you know what I mean?

00:27:28.988 --> 00:27:30.508
The meter is running, right?

00:27:30.528 --> 00:27:31.888
There's no one purchase.

00:27:32.489 --> 00:27:33.609
Unless you're the weird person who's

00:27:33.630 --> 00:27:34.970
hanging out at the Bowling Alley bar,

00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:35.490
but that's on you.

00:27:36.270 --> 00:27:38.111
Unless Bowling Alleys have a monthly

00:27:38.151 --> 00:27:38.551
membership.

00:27:38.592 --> 00:27:39.852
If they do, kudos to you guys.

00:27:39.971 --> 00:27:42.873
Which would be a killer idea, right?

00:27:42.893 --> 00:27:44.574
Movie, it's a transaction,

00:27:44.733 --> 00:27:45.615
and then get the hell out.

00:27:45.714 --> 00:27:47.154
Although when I was in high school or

00:27:47.194 --> 00:27:48.476
middle school, we'd pay for a movie.

00:27:52.659 --> 00:27:52.759
Yeah.

00:27:52.818 --> 00:27:52.979
Yeah.

00:27:53.019 --> 00:27:53.179
Yeah.

00:27:53.199 --> 00:27:53.500
Yeah.

00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:53.700
Yeah.

00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:53.920
Yeah.

00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:54.079
Yeah.

00:27:54.099 --> 00:27:54.200
Yeah.

00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:54.299
Yeah.

00:28:10.472 --> 00:28:12.394
It's not a small difference in terms of

00:28:12.433 --> 00:28:13.454
how many gyms and studios.

00:28:14.035 --> 00:28:15.375
So I wanted to talk about this because

00:28:15.395 --> 00:28:17.916
we also just announced that Orange Theory

00:28:17.936 --> 00:28:19.057
was closing locations.

00:28:19.157 --> 00:28:21.419
Nike tried to jump into the space and

00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:22.680
open their own gyms.

00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:25.801
And that was all pomp and no circumstance

00:28:25.842 --> 00:28:26.642
in less than a year.

00:28:26.701 --> 00:28:28.502
I think they're closing all of them.

00:28:28.722 --> 00:28:30.483
Essentially, it was a franchise model.

00:28:30.743 --> 00:28:31.605
Take our logo,

00:28:32.005 --> 00:28:34.105
build our own Nike version of Orange

00:28:34.125 --> 00:28:35.027
Theory or whatever.

00:28:35.446 --> 00:28:36.288
And it didn't work out.

00:28:36.307 --> 00:28:36.488
Why?

00:28:36.587 --> 00:28:36.847
Why?

00:28:37.853 --> 00:28:38.653
We can get into that.

00:28:39.554 --> 00:28:40.233
I've got a friend who...

00:28:40.374 --> 00:28:41.534
Did you ever meet Megan Brown?

00:28:42.934 --> 00:28:43.714
I can introduce you to her.

00:28:43.755 --> 00:28:45.015
You guys would get along famously.

00:28:45.435 --> 00:28:46.695
Megan Brown is a PT.

00:28:47.816 --> 00:28:49.217
She owns a fitness studio.

00:28:49.257 --> 00:28:51.336
She owns a Pilates and yoga business in

00:28:51.538 --> 00:28:52.357
Alexandria.

00:28:53.218 --> 00:28:54.578
So expensive zip code.

00:28:54.959 --> 00:28:56.358
Shadow of Washington, D.C.

00:28:56.679 --> 00:28:57.538
Three locations.

00:28:57.880 --> 00:28:59.099
She does four...

00:28:59.779 --> 00:29:01.000
I asked her three times if I had

00:29:01.020 --> 00:29:01.500
this number right.

00:29:01.861 --> 00:29:04.521
Four hundred classes a week across three

00:29:04.561 --> 00:29:05.001
locations.

00:29:06.957 --> 00:29:07.957
That's wild.

00:29:09.357 --> 00:29:10.038
Are you doing math?

00:29:10.077 --> 00:29:11.338
Because the math is wild.

00:29:11.679 --> 00:29:13.940
She's got multiple rooms at each location.

00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:14.720
Let's go.

00:29:14.779 --> 00:29:16.579
Four hundred divided by three locations

00:29:16.601 --> 00:29:18.101
would be one hundred and thirty three on

00:29:18.181 --> 00:29:19.481
average per week.

00:29:19.801 --> 00:29:21.342
She's open seven days or what?

00:29:21.382 --> 00:29:21.882
Seven days.

00:29:21.922 --> 00:29:26.183
Yeah, baby.

00:29:26.223 --> 00:29:26.864
How's that possible?

00:29:26.923 --> 00:29:28.724
Nineteen classes because she's got

00:29:28.845 --> 00:29:31.086
multiple she's got multiple rooms in each

00:29:31.145 --> 00:29:31.506
place.

00:29:32.866 --> 00:29:33.948
Well, and what's the class size?

00:29:34.188 --> 00:29:35.568
Do you know three to five or what?

00:29:35.608 --> 00:29:36.128
No, very.

00:29:36.189 --> 00:29:38.851
I mean, her class is like twenty thirty.

00:29:39.132 --> 00:29:41.772
Like she's got a frickin beast of a

00:29:41.813 --> 00:29:42.094
student.

00:29:42.134 --> 00:29:45.796
And it's Pilates class yoga so that you

00:29:45.816 --> 00:29:46.656
figure they're an hour.

00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:50.119
three locations,

00:29:50.881 --> 00:29:52.260
but do you know what she charges for

00:29:52.280 --> 00:29:52.701
classes?

00:29:53.020 --> 00:29:53.701
I'd be curious,

00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:54.842
but it's a membership model.

00:29:55.182 --> 00:29:56.981
And then you vie for, you've got a,

00:29:57.122 --> 00:29:58.343
Oh, you want to get in on this?

00:29:58.682 --> 00:29:59.103
Got it.

00:29:59.262 --> 00:30:01.002
Or this, I mean, it's the model,

00:30:01.282 --> 00:30:03.604
the difference between Megan and it's

00:30:03.624 --> 00:30:05.884
called it's a mind, mind to the mat.

00:30:06.325 --> 00:30:08.505
The difference between Megan and Nike,

00:30:08.644 --> 00:30:10.425
you would have said if you pit Nike

00:30:10.445 --> 00:30:11.726
against Megan Brown,

00:30:12.286 --> 00:30:13.366
this woman you've never heard of,

00:30:13.666 --> 00:30:14.586
you're like, well, Nike is going to win.

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:17.882
Megan understands what business she's in,

00:30:18.143 --> 00:30:19.243
which is community.

00:30:19.644 --> 00:30:23.690
She walks in on a random Saturday dressed

00:30:23.730 --> 00:30:25.353
as Beyonce because it's Beyonce's

00:30:25.393 --> 00:30:25.952
birthday.

00:30:26.594 --> 00:30:28.096
And now you don't forget that for the

00:30:28.115 --> 00:30:29.699
rest of the week.

00:30:29.858 --> 00:30:31.080
She sells...

00:30:32.372 --> 00:30:32.791
community.

00:30:33.393 --> 00:30:35.134
So these two things sound like I'm just

00:30:35.153 --> 00:30:35.753
changing topics,

00:30:35.773 --> 00:30:37.335
but I'm really not because the question

00:30:37.375 --> 00:30:37.434
is,

00:30:37.674 --> 00:30:39.236
are you the third place and what are

00:30:39.256 --> 00:30:39.836
you offering?

00:30:40.175 --> 00:30:42.917
So Equinox isn't Nike,

00:30:42.938 --> 00:30:44.558
but they're kind of the Nike of gyms,

00:30:44.598 --> 00:30:46.819
or at least they're like the Goliath,

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:47.019
right?

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.221
They're trying to be the big highest end.

00:30:49.260 --> 00:30:50.422
If someone raised their prices,

00:30:50.461 --> 00:30:52.563
I bet you Equinox would raise their prices

00:30:52.603 --> 00:30:54.023
again just to be more expensive.

00:30:54.503 --> 00:30:56.565
But Equinox and the video that you shared

00:30:56.805 --> 00:30:58.326
as well that we found on Instagram was

00:30:58.346 --> 00:30:59.646
showing that people were spending...

00:31:00.508 --> 00:31:02.395
Is this an additional four thousand

00:31:02.415 --> 00:31:03.962
dollars a year on top of dues?

00:31:05.006 --> 00:31:06.507
Or is this total?

00:31:07.467 --> 00:31:08.688
No, it says total here.

00:31:08.728 --> 00:31:09.468
So, four K.

00:31:10.249 --> 00:31:11.769
Seventy percent of the four thousand per

00:31:11.809 --> 00:31:13.431
year is the dues.

00:31:13.530 --> 00:31:14.590
And then the thirty percent,

00:31:14.631 --> 00:31:17.153
it says personal training, spa services,

00:31:17.173 --> 00:31:20.394
which I guess are upsells, smoothies,

00:31:20.453 --> 00:31:22.055
you know, protein smoothies, whatever,

00:31:22.134 --> 00:31:23.895
snacks, whatever, other purchases.

00:31:23.935 --> 00:31:26.258
So, whatever, like T-shirts, towels,

00:31:26.298 --> 00:31:26.678
bottles,

00:31:26.998 --> 00:31:29.138
whatever merch or like protein bars.

00:31:29.159 --> 00:31:30.420
So, this is a good breakdown.

00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:31.259
See, the funny thing is,

00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:32.921
if you asked me before we put this

00:31:32.961 --> 00:31:33.662
stat on the screen,

00:31:34.622 --> 00:31:36.663
how expensive equinox was i would have

00:31:36.682 --> 00:31:38.384
been like really expensive but if you

00:31:38.423 --> 00:31:40.443
pushed me for a number per month i

00:31:40.463 --> 00:31:41.505
don't know i would have said i don't

00:31:41.525 --> 00:31:44.205
know eight hundred dollars six hundred

00:31:44.246 --> 00:31:46.946
dollars but when you say four thousand

00:31:46.987 --> 00:31:50.228
dollars a year and that's only seventy

00:31:50.268 --> 00:31:53.209
percent that number feels more palatable

00:31:53.308 --> 00:31:54.529
if i know i'm going to go

00:31:55.191 --> 00:31:55.771
Do you know what I mean?

00:31:57.053 --> 00:31:58.795
The X number of dollars a month feels

00:31:58.815 --> 00:32:00.375
like a poke in my ribs.

00:32:00.695 --> 00:32:01.938
But if you're like, four grand,

00:32:02.097 --> 00:32:03.038
you can come to Equinox,

00:32:03.499 --> 00:32:04.839
three hundred and sixty-five times,

00:32:05.540 --> 00:32:06.461
use everything you want,

00:32:06.602 --> 00:32:09.204
up to and including this,

00:32:09.684 --> 00:32:11.287
that number doesn't look ridiculous now to

00:32:11.326 --> 00:32:11.446
me.

00:32:11.886 --> 00:32:12.988
Especially if you live in New York or

00:32:13.008 --> 00:32:13.669
Chicago or LA.

00:32:13.689 --> 00:32:13.868
Yeah,

00:32:14.670 --> 00:32:16.412
it comes out to three hundred and

00:32:16.432 --> 00:32:17.413
thirty-three bucks a month.

00:32:17.913 --> 00:32:19.034
Seventy percent of four thousand?

00:32:19.114 --> 00:32:19.394
Obviously...

00:32:20.696 --> 00:32:20.876
No, no.

00:32:21.336 --> 00:32:21.616
I'm sorry.

00:32:21.676 --> 00:32:22.518
Four thousand total.

00:32:22.538 --> 00:32:23.897
So four thousand divided by twelve months.

00:32:23.917 --> 00:32:24.657
That's not even a lot.

00:32:25.097 --> 00:32:26.078
Three hundred and thirty three bucks a

00:32:26.118 --> 00:32:26.278
month.

00:32:26.318 --> 00:32:27.179
That's not a lot.

00:32:27.298 --> 00:32:28.719
It's less than a hundred bucks a week.

00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:31.220
Well, there's other people that are like,

00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:32.240
that's expensive, right?

00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:33.560
And it's like that's because there's

00:32:33.641 --> 00:32:34.621
different consumers out there.

00:32:34.641 --> 00:32:36.481
There's people that want to just spend

00:32:36.521 --> 00:32:37.102
like, you know,

00:32:37.201 --> 00:32:38.301
a hundred dollars a month or eighty

00:32:38.321 --> 00:32:38.821
dollars a month.

00:32:39.222 --> 00:32:39.843
And by the way,

00:32:40.042 --> 00:32:41.222
let me just shout out Tony Maritato

00:32:41.242 --> 00:32:42.242
because he's not here right now.

00:32:42.482 --> 00:32:43.544
But this is something that he would say.

00:32:43.584 --> 00:32:44.923
And he has said this a lot about

00:32:45.344 --> 00:32:47.164
physical therapy pricing, that it makes...

00:32:47.684 --> 00:32:48.984
It only makes sense to go one way

00:32:49.005 --> 00:32:49.365
or the other,

00:32:49.424 --> 00:32:50.925
meaning you take all the insurances the

00:32:50.945 --> 00:32:51.705
way that he does.

00:32:51.965 --> 00:32:52.746
He takes Medicare.

00:32:52.766 --> 00:32:54.286
He takes a lot of the network insurances.

00:32:54.767 --> 00:32:56.567
So this bell curve,

00:32:57.126 --> 00:32:58.487
he's on one side of the bell curve.

00:32:58.567 --> 00:32:59.367
I'm on the other side of the bell

00:32:59.387 --> 00:32:59.627
curve.

00:32:59.968 --> 00:33:01.708
And if you're in the middle trying to

00:33:01.748 --> 00:33:02.367
charge, you know,

00:33:02.847 --> 00:33:04.729
one twenty five per visit out of pocket

00:33:04.769 --> 00:33:05.989
and not take any insurances,

00:33:07.128 --> 00:33:08.549
you don't have the extra money for

00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:09.910
marketing and hiring and all that.

00:33:10.329 --> 00:33:12.931
But you have the sales resistance and the

00:33:12.971 --> 00:33:13.750
hurdle of

00:33:14.510 --> 00:33:16.752
trying to get yourself or others busy so

00:33:16.792 --> 00:33:19.615
he takes all the insurances uh and he's

00:33:19.816 --> 00:33:21.037
a little bit more volume based and we

00:33:21.176 --> 00:33:24.019
don't and so we're more boutique but we

00:33:24.058 --> 00:33:27.061
have higher margin and this same example

00:33:27.082 --> 00:33:28.823
for gyms or any health and wellness

00:33:28.843 --> 00:33:30.724
service right it only makes sense to be

00:33:30.765 --> 00:33:33.307
the planet the planet fitness that it's so

00:33:33.346 --> 00:33:35.008
cheap that people don't come and if they

00:33:35.028 --> 00:33:37.210
do come it's pizza fridays or whatever you

00:33:37.230 --> 00:33:38.391
know eat a bagel while you're doing it

00:33:38.411 --> 00:33:39.071
like press like

00:33:39.372 --> 00:33:41.333
whatever, like they spit, you know,

00:33:41.353 --> 00:33:42.213
the lunk alarm.

00:33:43.575 --> 00:33:45.055
They got rid of like the heavier weights.

00:33:45.115 --> 00:33:46.855
They don't want any bodybuilders there.

00:33:47.037 --> 00:33:49.798
Like it's a genius model of ninety two

00:33:49.817 --> 00:33:51.459
percent of people at Planet Fitness do not

00:33:51.499 --> 00:33:51.719
come.

00:33:51.739 --> 00:33:52.700
They pay ten,

00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:53.941
twenty whatever dollars a month.

00:33:54.840 --> 00:33:58.323
And they don't use it in general because

00:33:58.343 --> 00:33:59.544
they knew that the bodybuilders and the

00:33:59.584 --> 00:34:01.305
people that exercise a lot wear out the

00:34:01.325 --> 00:34:03.926
equipment faster and then they have to pay

00:34:03.946 --> 00:34:05.326
for more equipment.

00:34:05.346 --> 00:34:05.847
Take up room.

00:34:06.488 --> 00:34:07.729
And so they got rid of the people

00:34:07.749 --> 00:34:10.230
that they literally made a model to get

00:34:10.269 --> 00:34:12.291
rid of the people that actually use the

00:34:12.311 --> 00:34:13.271
gym, which is insane.

00:34:13.873 --> 00:34:15.873
So now Equinox is the opposite.

00:34:15.914 --> 00:34:16.994
So it's like they know their people are

00:34:17.014 --> 00:34:17.994
going to use the equipment.

00:34:18.715 --> 00:34:20.056
They got to keep the facility clean

00:34:20.076 --> 00:34:20.817
because it's premium.

00:34:20.856 --> 00:34:22.117
So they got to charge a premium rate.

00:34:22.717 --> 00:34:23.998
The floor is premium.

00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:24.199
The

00:34:25.405 --> 00:34:27.148
The equipment is premium, the locker room,

00:34:27.168 --> 00:34:28.550
the amenities, all that type of stuff.

00:34:28.610 --> 00:34:30.552
And so you got to go one way

00:34:30.572 --> 00:34:30.952
or the other.

00:34:31.233 --> 00:34:32.253
So it makes no sense to have a

00:34:32.293 --> 00:34:35.858
gym that charges a hundred dollars a month

00:34:35.938 --> 00:34:36.739
or whatever, you know,

00:34:36.818 --> 00:34:38.740
it's like a one fifty or something like

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:40.943
you got to be like low end or

00:34:41.003 --> 00:34:41.563
high end.

00:34:42.023 --> 00:34:43.326
Otherwise you're going to get squeezed.

00:34:43.485 --> 00:34:43.646
Yep.

00:34:44.608 --> 00:34:46.449
Tony, you brought up Tony.

00:34:46.668 --> 00:34:47.268
He then...

00:34:47.568 --> 00:34:50.090
So his brick and mortar business model is

00:34:50.789 --> 00:34:53.951
more probably aligned to Planet Fitness.

00:34:54.331 --> 00:34:55.931
But then while he's there, he's like,

00:34:56.090 --> 00:34:58.911
I'm going to be the high end of

00:34:59.012 --> 00:35:00.012
my clinical brain.

00:35:00.192 --> 00:35:00.612
And he goes,

00:35:01.793 --> 00:35:02.972
if you're an equipment company,

00:35:03.012 --> 00:35:04.052
I'll make a video for you.

00:35:04.092 --> 00:35:04.673
Five hundred bucks.

00:35:05.614 --> 00:35:05.914
And he's like,

00:35:05.934 --> 00:35:07.333
I'm going to make five hundred bucks in

00:35:07.454 --> 00:35:09.635
twenty two minutes stitching together a

00:35:09.655 --> 00:35:10.054
video.

00:35:10.675 --> 00:35:12.695
And that transaction is done.

00:35:13.717 --> 00:35:15.018
he's on a different side of the bell

00:35:15.057 --> 00:35:17.458
curve for different audiences.

00:35:17.498 --> 00:35:18.460
Yep.

00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:20.420
And we in healthcare can't get away with

00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:20.641
that.

00:35:20.701 --> 00:35:22.181
We're like, I need to be cheap.

00:35:22.222 --> 00:35:23.422
So I'm available to everybody.

00:35:23.943 --> 00:35:24.222
Okay.

00:35:24.362 --> 00:35:26.364
But then you're cheap and you can't offer

00:35:26.864 --> 00:35:27.644
some of those things.

00:35:27.905 --> 00:35:29.485
You can be different things to different

00:35:29.527 --> 00:35:30.007
audiences.

00:35:30.347 --> 00:35:31.907
Look at car companies, right?

00:35:33.724 --> 00:35:35.304
Scion, Toyota, Lexus.

00:35:35.565 --> 00:35:36.925
I got a buddy who's a former Toyota

00:35:36.945 --> 00:35:37.306
mechanic.

00:35:37.326 --> 00:35:37.606
He's like,

00:35:38.226 --> 00:35:40.027
there are differences between the Scion

00:35:40.088 --> 00:35:40.628
and the Lexus.

00:35:40.648 --> 00:35:41.028
But he's like,

00:35:41.108 --> 00:35:42.750
a lot of the parts are interchangeable.

00:35:43.190 --> 00:35:44.911
You're buying... Yeah, the leather seats.

00:35:44.931 --> 00:35:45.291
You don't have a...

00:35:45.791 --> 00:35:47.353
They don't even make Scion anymore.

00:35:48.094 --> 00:35:49.974
You don't even have... I don't know.

00:35:50.114 --> 00:35:51.456
You don't have the leather in the low

00:35:51.615 --> 00:35:51.916
end.

00:35:51.956 --> 00:35:52.836
You have it in the high end.

00:35:52.856 --> 00:35:54.297
But you're paying for that difference.

00:35:54.338 --> 00:35:55.679
But there is some crossover.

00:35:56.059 --> 00:35:56.820
So you can do that.

00:35:57.380 --> 00:35:59.702
So I do like this graphic too.

00:35:59.802 --> 00:36:00.842
So the first one was...

00:36:02.121 --> 00:36:04.143
Equinox member spending,

00:36:04.344 --> 00:36:06.184
average Equinox members dropping four

00:36:06.224 --> 00:36:06.744
grand a year.

00:36:07.286 --> 00:36:08.385
Again, as I say that,

00:36:08.427 --> 00:36:10.208
that does not feel a lot because I

00:36:10.268 --> 00:36:12.289
like to move and I would appreciate that.

00:36:12.989 --> 00:36:14.090
This is the extra one.

00:36:14.431 --> 00:36:15.632
In five years,

00:36:16.192 --> 00:36:19.373
they don't need to get more people per

00:36:19.414 --> 00:36:20.094
location.

00:36:21.273 --> 00:36:23.976
They're expected to now net in five years,

00:36:24.297 --> 00:36:27.240
six thousand dollars per member per year.

00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:29.242
How do you think they'll do that?

00:36:29.523 --> 00:36:31.925
Just offer different things or raise their

00:36:32.005 --> 00:36:32.306
rates?

00:36:32.326 --> 00:36:32.746
I mean,

00:36:32.766 --> 00:36:34.547
the dollar is also losing value every day,

00:36:34.588 --> 00:36:34.728
so.

00:36:36.983 --> 00:36:37.182
I mean,

00:36:37.322 --> 00:36:39.423
raising their rates is going to be the

00:36:39.443 --> 00:36:39.884
biggest thing.

00:36:40.143 --> 00:36:41.043
I'm sure they're going to add other

00:36:41.063 --> 00:36:41.623
things, too.

00:36:42.623 --> 00:36:43.804
And if you got to think about it,

00:36:43.844 --> 00:36:48.286
they had also recently added some forty

00:36:48.306 --> 00:36:49.005
thousand dollar.

00:36:49.045 --> 00:36:50.626
And then this is only for like executives

00:36:50.666 --> 00:36:51.427
or people that can afford it.

00:36:51.447 --> 00:36:53.947
But Equinox added recently like a forty

00:36:53.967 --> 00:36:55.288
thousand dollar, like longevity,

00:36:55.347 --> 00:36:56.148
something, you know,

00:36:56.168 --> 00:36:58.228
they'll take your blood and, you know,

00:36:58.268 --> 00:37:00.369
get a physician to look at it or

00:37:00.389 --> 00:37:02.068
like a nurse or something up your butt.

00:37:02.128 --> 00:37:02.648
Look at this.

00:37:02.889 --> 00:37:04.269
Look at your butt.

00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:04.610
Look at this.

00:37:07.210 --> 00:37:11.811
yeah so so if they made projections based

00:37:11.851 --> 00:37:13.072
off of that so like the people that

00:37:13.092 --> 00:37:16.431
spend forty K plus the four grand for

00:37:16.452 --> 00:37:17.713
so they're playing they're paying forty

00:37:17.753 --> 00:37:20.112
four grand a year and if you take

00:37:20.253 --> 00:37:22.054
enough of those people but you divide it

00:37:22.114 --> 00:37:24.653
over all your members does that result in

00:37:24.673 --> 00:37:26.775
the boost to go you know faster route

00:37:26.815 --> 00:37:28.635
to go from four thousand per year spend

00:37:28.655 --> 00:37:31.476
to six thousand per year spend maybe um

00:37:32.856 --> 00:37:34.838
So what's the difference between to go

00:37:34.858 --> 00:37:37.481
from four grand a year to six grand

00:37:37.501 --> 00:37:37.721
a year?

00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:39.862
Am I doing this properly?

00:37:39.882 --> 00:37:43.206
Is it like a sixty-seven percent increase

00:37:43.585 --> 00:37:44.206
in five years?

00:37:44.686 --> 00:37:45.568
It's a third.

00:37:46.646 --> 00:37:48.068
it's a third sort of thirty three percent

00:37:48.088 --> 00:37:51.150
increase because you're doing two with two

00:37:51.210 --> 00:37:53.311
math geniuses doing it today oh yeah so

00:37:53.391 --> 00:37:55.193
so two two back yeah two x would

00:37:55.213 --> 00:37:56.713
be eight two x would be eight thousand

00:37:56.733 --> 00:37:58.054
dollars per year so six grand per year

00:37:58.655 --> 00:38:00.757
so how yeah how else i mean the

00:38:00.797 --> 00:38:03.039
easiest lever is to raise rates but again

00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:06.481
you typically need to offer sometimes

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.043
offer more or something different to

00:38:09.083 --> 00:38:11.505
justify why you're raising rates but cam

00:38:11.525 --> 00:38:11.744
needed

00:38:16.023 --> 00:38:17.385
You never, you never know.

00:38:17.644 --> 00:38:18.706
I mean, I was going to say,

00:38:18.726 --> 00:38:19.726
you never know what we're going to say.

00:38:19.766 --> 00:38:20.126
You never know.

00:38:20.166 --> 00:38:20.525
You never know.

00:38:20.686 --> 00:38:21.766
You never know what Jimmy's going to say

00:38:21.786 --> 00:38:22.186
here live.

00:38:22.347 --> 00:38:23.748
But Cam, um,

00:38:24.648 --> 00:38:26.789
this is where I like Alex Hormozy.

00:38:26.829 --> 00:38:28.510
Some of his stuff gets a little too

00:38:29.610 --> 00:38:31.070
flippant, but like, he's like,

00:38:31.090 --> 00:38:32.371
there's three ways to make money.

00:38:33.682 --> 00:38:34.483
Let me see if I can not screw

00:38:34.503 --> 00:38:34.804
this up.

00:38:35.103 --> 00:38:37.065
Find more people.

00:38:37.105 --> 00:38:38.485
Get more people to come to your business.

00:38:38.565 --> 00:38:39.445
So Equinox is like,

00:38:39.485 --> 00:38:40.626
we don't want more people because then we

00:38:40.646 --> 00:38:41.347
got to do more stuff.

00:38:41.686 --> 00:38:42.867
So find more people.

00:38:44.068 --> 00:38:46.188
Get those people who pay you to come

00:38:46.208 --> 00:38:48.751
back more often.

00:38:48.831 --> 00:38:49.530
A gym model,

00:38:49.570 --> 00:38:50.572
you actually don't want them to come back

00:38:50.592 --> 00:38:50.972
more often,

00:38:50.992 --> 00:38:51.992
but you want them to buy more things

00:38:52.391 --> 00:38:54.052
or sell them different things.

00:38:55.594 --> 00:38:56.313
Those are the three things.

00:38:56.353 --> 00:38:57.195
Those are the three ways.

00:38:57.315 --> 00:38:58.114
And if you can come up with a

00:38:58.155 --> 00:38:58.715
fourth way,

00:38:59.135 --> 00:39:00.155
you're going to be a bajillionaire.

00:39:00.356 --> 00:39:01.496
But those are the three ways.

00:39:02.903 --> 00:39:04.646
And we do pay attention to that,

00:39:04.666 --> 00:39:06.106
but we like to just sell people more

00:39:06.186 --> 00:39:06.586
visits.

00:39:06.626 --> 00:39:08.168
And I'm like, visits ain't it.

00:39:08.208 --> 00:39:09.148
That's a race to the bottom.

00:39:09.489 --> 00:39:10.610
Or that's the model you want to be

00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:10.771
in.

00:39:11.612 --> 00:39:12.092
That's fine.

00:39:12.853 --> 00:39:13.693
That is fine.

00:39:13.813 --> 00:39:16.195
I think I started by saying that if

00:39:16.255 --> 00:39:17.016
that is your model,

00:39:17.076 --> 00:39:19.858
that is one hundred percent OK.

00:39:19.898 --> 00:39:21.940
But just understand what game you're

00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:23.822
gaming, what game you're in.

00:39:23.862 --> 00:39:25.784
So Iron Man.

00:39:26.969 --> 00:39:28.389
Not the comic book character,

00:39:28.469 --> 00:39:30.831
the corporation that is around triathlon.

00:39:31.413 --> 00:39:32.572
They did something similar.

00:39:32.893 --> 00:39:34.735
Like where Equinox has like an executive

00:39:34.775 --> 00:39:35.195
program,

00:39:35.536 --> 00:39:36.976
Ironman started doing this about ten years

00:39:36.996 --> 00:39:39.219
ago, which is like, we'll give you...

00:39:40.018 --> 00:39:42.240
Are you a CEO making more than two

00:39:42.260 --> 00:39:43.382
hundred grand a year that wants to be

00:39:43.422 --> 00:39:43.981
an Ironman?

00:39:44.382 --> 00:39:45.242
And everybody's like, yes.

00:39:45.443 --> 00:39:46.844
Then you do Ironman Elite.

00:39:47.184 --> 00:39:49.427
And you got, for more money per race,

00:39:49.447 --> 00:39:50.927
you got into races that were closed.

00:39:50.947 --> 00:39:51.068
Access.

00:39:51.208 --> 00:39:51.648
Access.

00:39:52.842 --> 00:39:54.943
You start closer to the front.

00:39:55.945 --> 00:39:56.465
Access.

00:39:58.025 --> 00:40:00.266
Status.

00:40:00.306 --> 00:40:02.228
You have a different badge or whatever.

00:40:02.248 --> 00:40:04.809
Or if you complete three executive races,

00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:05.889
you get an extra badge.

00:40:06.050 --> 00:40:06.670
Badge value.

00:40:07.791 --> 00:40:08.871
You become triple exec.

00:40:09.391 --> 00:40:10.833
Triple Iron Man.

00:40:10.913 --> 00:40:12.594
You're a war machine, right?

00:40:14.114 --> 00:40:15.815
But they understood what they were selling

00:40:15.835 --> 00:40:17.956
because what Iron Man realized was

00:40:18.927 --> 00:40:20.148
If we do Ironman,

00:40:20.429 --> 00:40:21.911
they have done Ironman in New York City,

00:40:22.132 --> 00:40:23.873
which was, I heard, a debacle.

00:40:26.016 --> 00:40:27.898
We can only put about three thousand

00:40:27.978 --> 00:40:30.681
athletes and make it a good experience,

00:40:31.141 --> 00:40:32.202
safe experience.

00:40:33.313 --> 00:40:33.954
For a race.

00:40:34.394 --> 00:40:35.476
Well, how can we make more money?

00:40:35.655 --> 00:40:36.657
Do more races?

00:40:36.936 --> 00:40:38.458
Those are logistically nightmares.

00:40:38.898 --> 00:40:39.619
So they're just like,

00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.141
how do we get more money out of

00:40:41.181 --> 00:40:41.782
each athlete?

00:40:42.041 --> 00:40:43.262
They understood what game they were in.

00:40:43.543 --> 00:40:43.663
Now,

00:40:43.702 --> 00:40:45.364
they faced a lot of backlash because the

00:40:45.425 --> 00:40:45.804
true,

00:40:46.106 --> 00:40:48.427
the middle of the bell curve triathletes

00:40:48.847 --> 00:40:50.068
were looking at the executives and they

00:40:50.088 --> 00:40:51.530
were like, who are these rich douchebags?

00:40:52.891 --> 00:40:53.972
The thing I used to have to... Oh,

00:40:53.992 --> 00:40:55.914
you could buy your way into certain races

00:40:56.394 --> 00:40:57.715
that you used to have to earn your

00:40:57.755 --> 00:40:58.597
way into.

00:40:58.657 --> 00:40:58.777
Yeah.

00:40:58.936 --> 00:40:59.777
And people were like, dude,

00:40:59.818 --> 00:41:01.338
I just busted my ass for a decade

00:41:01.378 --> 00:41:02.320
becoming a great athlete.

00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:04.961
But Johnny's CEO could pay for it.

00:41:04.981 --> 00:41:06.543
It's like, well, they're the company.

00:41:06.664 --> 00:41:06.903
Yeah,

00:41:07.003 --> 00:41:08.385
they let people buy their way into it.

00:41:10.246 --> 00:41:13.309
Will there be a healthcare company who

00:41:13.389 --> 00:41:14.530
understands this?

00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:16.210
Let's screw healthcare.

00:41:16.452 --> 00:41:18.193
Will there be a PT organization that

00:41:18.213 --> 00:41:21.034
understands this in the next five years

00:41:21.476 --> 00:41:22.996
and does more Equinox?

00:41:23.717 --> 00:41:24.538
Do you think they will?

00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:26.320
I would love for someone to do it.

00:41:26.739 --> 00:41:27.641
Do you think someone will?

00:41:28.222 --> 00:41:29.483
Well, when you say do what,

00:41:29.523 --> 00:41:31.226
you mean have that type of a spend

00:41:31.266 --> 00:41:31.867
per person?

00:41:31.947 --> 00:41:33.148
Or what do you mean specifically?

00:41:33.208 --> 00:41:34.289
Yeah, that's probably good.

00:41:34.309 --> 00:41:37.112
That wasn't a good question.

00:41:37.231 --> 00:41:38.632
It was in my head.

00:41:38.672 --> 00:41:39.773
What I mean is,

00:41:39.934 --> 00:41:42.056
will there be an organization,

00:41:42.577 --> 00:41:44.579
a physical therapy first organization,

00:41:44.998 --> 00:41:47.101
who will lean into the membership model

00:41:47.842 --> 00:41:50.644
and offer, we are the third place?

00:41:50.664 --> 00:41:51.925
Because that's how we started this

00:41:51.965 --> 00:41:52.527
conversation.

00:41:53.672 --> 00:41:55.673
I feel like PT or a PT first

00:41:55.713 --> 00:41:58.277
organ... Megan Brown is a PT clinic,

00:41:58.317 --> 00:42:00.398
but she's not.

00:42:00.418 --> 00:42:02.239
She's smart enough to not put PT on

00:42:02.260 --> 00:42:04.202
her sign because she knows what she sells.

00:42:04.422 --> 00:42:05.724
Community, third place.

00:42:06.545 --> 00:42:09.947
People die to get into her clinic, right?

00:42:10.047 --> 00:42:12.230
Is it possible for a physical therapy

00:42:12.710 --> 00:42:16.213
organization to do that model and survive?

00:42:18.034 --> 00:42:20.757
With program packages of like,

00:42:20.836 --> 00:42:23.038
I've heard more and more PTs talking about

00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:24.599
like, they'll do an evaluation.

00:42:24.739 --> 00:42:25.559
They charge you whatever,

00:42:26.021 --> 00:42:27.201
two hundred bucks, three hundred bucks,

00:42:27.221 --> 00:42:28.601
whatever, hundred fifty, whatever.

00:42:29.242 --> 00:42:30.623
And then they sell you like a three

00:42:30.664 --> 00:42:31.784
month program for your

00:42:32.978 --> 00:42:34.458
issue but that's still the one-on-one

00:42:34.478 --> 00:42:36.239
treatment so it's not and that's just you

00:42:36.260 --> 00:42:38.661
come a third place as i show up

00:42:38.681 --> 00:42:41.563
whenever i'm lonely teresa's saying she

00:42:41.583 --> 00:42:43.123
will at wish clinic soon that's her goal

00:42:43.603 --> 00:42:46.646
good wish clinic is a killer name by

00:42:46.666 --> 00:42:49.447
the way like genius i do i teresa

00:42:49.467 --> 00:42:52.369
do you have wishclinic.com or is it like

00:42:52.389 --> 00:42:54.050
she's gonna have to pay she's got to

00:42:54.090 --> 00:42:55.331
buy it for me in a minute because

00:42:55.351 --> 00:42:55.550
i'm gonna

00:42:56.586 --> 00:42:57.007
Or she's like,

00:42:57.126 --> 00:42:58.068
I wish I could get it.

00:42:58.248 --> 00:42:58.708
I wish.

00:42:58.728 --> 00:43:00.550
I used to have wish sandwiches when I

00:43:00.570 --> 00:43:00.969
was younger.

00:43:01.391 --> 00:43:02.771
You just wish there was some stuff between

00:43:02.791 --> 00:43:03.052
the bread.

00:43:03.092 --> 00:43:03.851
That was me in college.

00:43:06.094 --> 00:43:08.315
Because a package is not Equinox.

00:43:08.556 --> 00:43:09.195
Think about that.

00:43:09.215 --> 00:43:10.637
Would you ever go to Equinox and buy

00:43:10.717 --> 00:43:13.139
ten walk-ins?

00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:13.960
No.

00:43:14.661 --> 00:43:15.780
Equinox probably wouldn't let you do it.

00:43:16.342 --> 00:43:18.463
What they would do is run a credit

00:43:18.483 --> 00:43:19.844
check, see what you make, and go,

00:43:19.923 --> 00:43:21.244
we'll let you come for free today because

00:43:21.264 --> 00:43:23.106
we know what we are.

00:43:23.407 --> 00:43:24.568
Here's a good comparison, right?

00:43:25.148 --> 00:43:25.347
So

00:43:27.643 --> 00:43:29.545
Even in the cash physical therapy world,

00:43:29.804 --> 00:43:31.806
so there's the one-on-one treatment.

00:43:32.166 --> 00:43:34.289
That resembles the Equinox personal

00:43:34.329 --> 00:43:35.009
training offering.

00:43:35.028 --> 00:43:36.570
Correct.

00:43:36.911 --> 00:43:37.731
You're asking,

00:43:39.572 --> 00:43:41.914
will people pay a membership to go to

00:43:41.934 --> 00:43:43.335
a physical therapy practice like...

00:43:45.324 --> 00:43:47.987
megan brown's place so she she sounds like

00:43:48.047 --> 00:43:50.427
she had she had she has the infrastructure

00:43:50.789 --> 00:43:53.891
to sell the membership but then the if

00:43:53.951 --> 00:43:55.532
someone had wants the one-on-one attention

00:43:55.552 --> 00:43:57.353
and time or has an issue now it's

00:43:57.432 --> 00:43:59.213
one-on-one physical therapy she's going in

00:43:59.233 --> 00:44:01.456
a different direction so like the pt

00:44:01.476 --> 00:44:03.217
clinic it's a transaction you come in you

00:44:03.237 --> 00:44:04.538
go into a small room or you walk

00:44:04.577 --> 00:44:06.318
into our gym but there's it's a guided

00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.181
megan's like you come in megan treats

00:44:09.240 --> 00:44:11.501
twenty-eight people at the at a time that

00:44:11.561 --> 00:44:11.882
math

00:44:12.762 --> 00:44:14.826
And no one's mad about it because it's

00:44:14.846 --> 00:44:15.405
a class.

00:44:15.987 --> 00:44:17.829
But you get her eyes only when she

00:44:17.849 --> 00:44:18.769
needs you or you're like, hey,

00:44:18.789 --> 00:44:20.210
look at my downward dog.

00:44:20.251 --> 00:44:20.831
How's that doing?

00:44:20.851 --> 00:44:21.873
And she's like, move your butt,

00:44:22.032 --> 00:44:22.534
move your leg.

00:44:23.976 --> 00:44:26.518
The expectation walking in is not Megan

00:44:26.538 --> 00:44:27.458
and you for an hour.

00:44:27.940 --> 00:44:29.081
It's I'm part of this.

00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:30.922
So Megan goes in a different direction

00:44:31.264 --> 00:44:31.903
that we go.

00:44:32.818 --> 00:44:35.380
We said on our previous episode,

00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:36.782
the three things that we would do if

00:44:36.802 --> 00:44:38.664
we opened a gym tomorrow is you would

00:44:38.684 --> 00:44:40.525
have a gym, walk in, use the equipment.

00:44:40.746 --> 00:44:41.786
It's Disney World.

00:44:42.606 --> 00:44:45.289
Also in that facility is a room with

00:44:45.889 --> 00:44:48.112
the Norma Tech boots and a cold plunge

00:44:48.231 --> 00:44:51.273
and the weird masks that people put on

00:44:51.293 --> 00:44:52.655
their face to blast their face with

00:44:52.675 --> 00:44:53.275
infrared.

00:44:53.315 --> 00:44:56.318
That's like use your own recovery.

00:44:56.739 --> 00:44:58.300
And then the third option would be

00:44:59.621 --> 00:45:03.083
food, smoothies, places to chill.

00:45:03.123 --> 00:45:04.503
It's before, during, after.

00:45:06.244 --> 00:45:08.065
And PT clinics want to get you out

00:45:08.085 --> 00:45:09.186
the door as soon as you're done.

00:45:09.246 --> 00:45:10.547
Like they look like PTs will literally

00:45:10.588 --> 00:45:11.949
walk you to the front desk, right?

00:45:11.969 --> 00:45:13.028
They're like, okay, and you're out.

00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:15.951
They quite literally are the anti this.

00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:19.612
It's an assembly line that you ride versus

00:45:20.112 --> 00:45:21.273
you come in and you go anywhere you

00:45:21.313 --> 00:45:21.514
want.

00:45:21.934 --> 00:45:23.494
I don't see anybody doing that anytime

00:45:23.534 --> 00:45:23.735
soon.

00:45:24.335 --> 00:45:26.117
Maybe like a rehab to perform.

00:45:29.505 --> 00:45:30.766
No, because they're a network.

00:45:32.307 --> 00:45:33.809
But you could do both.

00:45:33.909 --> 00:45:35.811
You could do a membership or Tony does

00:45:35.851 --> 00:45:37.213
that.

00:45:37.452 --> 00:45:39.213
We would have to get Josh Funk here,

00:45:39.313 --> 00:45:40.534
the CEO,

00:45:40.614 --> 00:45:43.036
on a call here on an episode because

00:45:43.597 --> 00:45:46.920
the model of what they do is all

00:45:46.981 --> 00:45:48.661
mapped out in terms of spacing and square

00:45:48.702 --> 00:45:50.583
footage and he knows how many billable

00:45:50.704 --> 00:45:52.766
units and once they get a therapist up

00:45:52.786 --> 00:45:54.686
and running and how many therapists in

00:45:54.706 --> 00:45:56.248
terms of breaking even and then

00:45:56.849 --> 00:45:57.389
like that's,

00:45:57.730 --> 00:45:59.391
that's hard to change that model, man.

00:45:59.451 --> 00:46:00.592
Like once you're in that model,

00:46:00.612 --> 00:46:02.934
like it's hard to, it's about spacing.

00:46:02.974 --> 00:46:03.153
Right.

00:46:03.193 --> 00:46:05.815
So like his spacing is some open gym.

00:46:06.175 --> 00:46:06.436
Yes.

00:46:06.615 --> 00:46:07.677
He has a lot of places.

00:46:08.117 --> 00:46:10.559
His places have like the, the turf and,

00:46:10.579 --> 00:46:11.960
you know, pushing the sleds and there's,

00:46:12.219 --> 00:46:13.661
there's room for sprinting and running and

00:46:13.701 --> 00:46:13.942
stuff.

00:46:14.242 --> 00:46:16.143
But also some of that space is treatment

00:46:16.163 --> 00:46:17.264
tables, like out in the gym,

00:46:17.304 --> 00:46:18.405
like a bunch of treatment tables next to

00:46:18.425 --> 00:46:19.786
each other, which is,

00:46:20.166 --> 00:46:23.128
In the Equinox example is there's like two

00:46:23.148 --> 00:46:25.389
to five or six treatment tables because

00:46:25.429 --> 00:46:27.690
the people stretch on them or the trainers

00:46:27.710 --> 00:46:28.952
sometimes for better or for worse.

00:46:29.192 --> 00:46:31.233
I don't like it, but stretch people,

00:46:31.293 --> 00:46:32.114
stretch their members out.

00:46:32.153 --> 00:46:34.976
But most of the facility is the gym

00:46:35.016 --> 00:46:35.356
equipment.

00:46:35.617 --> 00:46:35.717
Right.

00:46:35.757 --> 00:46:36.396
Does that make sense?

00:46:36.556 --> 00:46:38.559
So like our our our setup is,

00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:38.878
you know,

00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:40.380
the space is utilized differently.

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:41.621
I mean,

00:46:41.721 --> 00:46:43.342
if you watch a bar rescue like John

00:46:43.382 --> 00:46:44.402
Taffer knows what.

00:46:45.275 --> 00:46:46.077
A chair.

00:46:46.978 --> 00:46:47.759
This fascinated me.

00:46:47.778 --> 00:46:48.780
I never thought about it like that.

00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:49.179
He's like, well,

00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:50.561
we can get six more chairs in here.

00:46:50.581 --> 00:46:51.623
I'm like, why do you care about chairs?

00:46:51.643 --> 00:46:53.284
Like every chair brings in seventy eight

00:46:53.324 --> 00:46:53.985
dollars a day.

00:46:54.065 --> 00:46:55.286
And I'm like, really?

00:46:55.527 --> 00:46:56.246
Yeah, they're full.

00:46:56.847 --> 00:46:58.048
But even if they're not full,

00:46:58.068 --> 00:46:59.751
then the average cost per chair goes down.

00:46:59.771 --> 00:47:00.532
So he's like, I get it.

00:47:00.592 --> 00:47:01.572
I need to I need to be good.

00:47:02.954 --> 00:47:04.516
Know your customer acquisition cost,

00:47:04.876 --> 00:47:05.996
knowing what it costs to get someone in

00:47:06.016 --> 00:47:06.297
the door.

00:47:08.467 --> 00:47:09.327
Yeah.

00:47:09.347 --> 00:47:12.367
This is where people get mad at Lifetime

00:47:12.447 --> 00:47:12.827
Fitness.

00:47:12.867 --> 00:47:14.389
Was it Lifetime Fitness that was writing

00:47:15.168 --> 00:47:15.889
DPT?

00:47:16.489 --> 00:47:16.989
Yeah, they were.

00:47:17.010 --> 00:47:18.150
Across their chest.

00:47:18.409 --> 00:47:18.550
Yeah.

00:47:18.590 --> 00:47:19.530
And I just go like,

00:47:19.690 --> 00:47:20.990
are you mad they're doing it?

00:47:21.070 --> 00:47:22.371
Or are you mad they're doing it and

00:47:22.391 --> 00:47:22.931
you're not?

00:47:22.952 --> 00:47:24.172
Like, are you mad about the letters?

00:47:24.271 --> 00:47:26.032
I need you to get past that and

00:47:26.353 --> 00:47:26.893
ignore that.

00:47:27.293 --> 00:47:28.713
Someone is suing someone on that.

00:47:29.094 --> 00:47:29.873
That's not your worry.

00:47:29.893 --> 00:47:32.635
Your worry is their model is eating your

00:47:32.675 --> 00:47:34.054
lunch, not the letters.

00:47:34.275 --> 00:47:35.576
That's not what you should be defending.

00:47:36.902 --> 00:47:38.385
Talking about people suing people and

00:47:38.425 --> 00:47:39.086
people defending.

00:47:39.327 --> 00:47:40.670
I am going to an APTA event.

00:47:42.253 --> 00:47:42.934
Dave is not.

00:47:43.596 --> 00:47:44.418
Are you an APTA member?

00:47:44.858 --> 00:47:45.298
You don't care.

00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:46.641
I mean, you care, but you're like,

00:47:47.443 --> 00:47:48.465
you like show me a better ROI.

00:47:49.409 --> 00:47:51.429
I am going because I am a joiner.

00:47:52.030 --> 00:47:53.431
I just like groups of people and I

00:47:53.492 --> 00:47:54.231
hope for the better.

00:47:55.753 --> 00:47:56.954
They are having here.

00:47:57.034 --> 00:47:57.994
And here's what I wanted to say,

00:47:58.175 --> 00:48:00.175
which might make people like Dave do a

00:48:00.195 --> 00:48:00.976
little eyebrow raise.

00:48:01.996 --> 00:48:03.478
They are having this weekend,

00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.739
their APTA payment summit.

00:48:07.161 --> 00:48:08.420
And I think if they held this ten

00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:08.802
years ago,

00:48:08.822 --> 00:48:09.541
they would have called it the

00:48:09.581 --> 00:48:10.503
reimbursement summit.

00:48:10.902 --> 00:48:11.523
But they are not.

00:48:11.583 --> 00:48:12.623
They're calling it the payment summit.

00:48:14.125 --> 00:48:14.786
Yes, that's true.

00:48:14.885 --> 00:48:15.425
That's true.

00:48:15.505 --> 00:48:17.168
It's back to back in Portland.

00:48:17.208 --> 00:48:17.987
I got to fly all the way to

00:48:18.027 --> 00:48:19.670
Portland tomorrow morning at zero dark

00:48:19.690 --> 00:48:21.411
thirty House of Delegates,

00:48:21.431 --> 00:48:22.891
which is like the APTA's version of

00:48:22.952 --> 00:48:25.634
Congress where like rules get made.

00:48:25.773 --> 00:48:26.974
That stuff is over my head.

00:48:27.014 --> 00:48:27.916
I need people to I'm like,

00:48:27.996 --> 00:48:28.956
I don't know what you're saying.

00:48:28.996 --> 00:48:31.139
They're banging gavels and doing Robert's

00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:31.378
rules.

00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:37.284
I do like the idea of payment and

00:48:37.344 --> 00:48:38.364
what they're doing there.

00:48:39.335 --> 00:48:41.336
I know advocacy needs to happen and move

00:48:41.376 --> 00:48:41.717
slowly.

00:48:41.938 --> 00:48:43.059
I'm not the guy to do advocacy.

00:48:43.219 --> 00:48:44.661
I'm the guy that talks to the people

00:48:44.681 --> 00:48:45.842
who do advocacy because they got to do

00:48:45.902 --> 00:48:48.184
meetings and write a lot of strongly

00:48:48.204 --> 00:48:48.824
worded emails.

00:48:50.467 --> 00:48:51.987
Are you at least excited that someone's

00:48:52.028 --> 00:48:53.150
doing it, but you're not?

00:48:53.190 --> 00:48:54.690
No, no, it's never.

00:48:55.411 --> 00:48:56.713
Reimbursement will never change.

00:48:56.793 --> 00:48:57.914
I don't care.

00:48:57.934 --> 00:48:58.614
Well, it will change.

00:48:58.635 --> 00:48:59.737
It's just going to go down.

00:49:01.152 --> 00:49:01.632
Well, yeah,

00:49:01.652 --> 00:49:02.693
it's definitely going to go down.

00:49:02.733 --> 00:49:03.835
But with all this effort,

00:49:03.894 --> 00:49:06.317
it's crazy that they can't even get a

00:49:06.396 --> 00:49:08.358
three or five percent increase every year.

00:49:08.739 --> 00:49:09.599
They can't even do that.

00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:10.521
I will say this.

00:49:10.581 --> 00:49:11.661
If you look at other professions,

00:49:11.702 --> 00:49:12.242
it's the same.

00:49:12.302 --> 00:49:13.963
So it's not like APTA is inefficient.

00:49:13.983 --> 00:49:15.664
It's like the system is designed.

00:49:16.126 --> 00:49:16.706
What was the line?

00:49:16.806 --> 00:49:19.188
The system is designed to get the result,

00:49:19.228 --> 00:49:20.289
the exact result it gets.

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:21.590
It's like the system's broken.

00:49:21.771 --> 00:49:22.572
Are we shocked about it?

00:49:22.931 --> 00:49:23.693
I will say this.

00:49:24.233 --> 00:49:25.494
It's impossible to know.

00:49:26.275 --> 00:49:27.336
what the world would look like if you

00:49:27.356 --> 00:49:30.621
didn't have your APTA or AOTA or ASHA.

00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:32.003
It could be worse.

00:49:32.583 --> 00:49:33.684
That's not a great business model.

00:49:33.744 --> 00:49:35.686
Hey, without us, it could be worse.

00:49:35.807 --> 00:49:36.768
It could be worse.

00:49:37.385 --> 00:49:38.527
Yeah, I mean...

00:49:39.327 --> 00:49:41.969
I also say this isn't the main value

00:49:42.009 --> 00:49:43.269
if you're an APTA member or not.

00:49:44.110 --> 00:49:45.711
I stood in front of students at Keene

00:49:45.771 --> 00:49:47.652
University in New Jersey and a student

00:49:47.753 --> 00:49:47.913
asked,

00:49:48.393 --> 00:49:51.215
should I join APTA right out of school?

00:49:51.735 --> 00:49:53.757
And Ben Aguila, do you know Ben Aguila?

00:49:53.876 --> 00:49:54.838
Great guy, New Jersey.

00:49:55.197 --> 00:49:57.179
He was like, of course, this, this, this.

00:49:57.259 --> 00:49:58.119
And I said, Ben,

00:49:58.139 --> 00:49:59.240
I'm going to offer a counterpoint.

00:49:59.320 --> 00:49:59.880
And Ben was like,

00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:00.641
what are you doing here, buddy?

00:50:00.661 --> 00:50:01.362
We're on stage.

00:50:01.742 --> 00:50:02.262
We're pushing.

00:50:03.603 --> 00:50:05.164
I said, don't join APTA.

00:50:05.465 --> 00:50:06.365
And the room went quiet.

00:50:07.128 --> 00:50:07.628
And then I said,

00:50:07.849 --> 00:50:10.592
until you understand what you're looking

00:50:10.632 --> 00:50:13.617
for and what APTA actually provides.

00:50:13.918 --> 00:50:15.099
If you're looking for a community,

00:50:15.992 --> 00:50:18.474
APTA provides that, a network, right?

00:50:19.275 --> 00:50:21.076
If that's what you're looking for,

00:50:21.356 --> 00:50:23.217
what I'm trying to do is have nobody

00:50:23.257 --> 00:50:25.398
in the comments section a year later

00:50:25.438 --> 00:50:25.657
going,

00:50:25.717 --> 00:50:27.219
I paid APTA five hundred bucks and I

00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:27.998
didn't get anything.

00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:30.300
Make sure you have expectations in

00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:30.840
reality.

00:50:31.121 --> 00:50:32.342
If you think you're going to pay APTA

00:50:32.382 --> 00:50:33.983
five hundred bucks and payments going to

00:50:34.003 --> 00:50:34.842
turn around tomorrow,

00:50:35.083 --> 00:50:37.824
you will be disappointed and then you'll

00:50:37.844 --> 00:50:38.864
leave and you'll never come back.

00:50:39.445 --> 00:50:40.085
I don't want that.

00:50:40.766 --> 00:50:42.947
It's four hundred people out in Portland.

00:50:43.447 --> 00:50:46.630
I'll report back what actually is done.

00:50:46.789 --> 00:50:47.530
I hope it's good.

00:50:49.172 --> 00:50:49.771
I hope it's good.

00:50:49.972 --> 00:50:51.454
But I thought all three of the topics

00:50:51.474 --> 00:50:53.554
today were all about money,

00:50:53.914 --> 00:50:56.376
expectation matching reality and

00:50:56.516 --> 00:50:57.677
understand what game you're playing.

00:50:59.315 --> 00:51:00.195
And for me,

00:51:00.996 --> 00:51:03.976
I can't outsource that to Jimmy and Tony.

00:51:04.137 --> 00:51:07.538
I can't outsource that to the APTA.

00:51:07.659 --> 00:51:09.619
Structuring a model that's profitable.

00:51:14.782 --> 00:51:15.722
Here's your decision tree.

00:51:16.262 --> 00:51:16.862
What should you do?

00:51:17.061 --> 00:51:17.943
Join APTA.

00:51:18.063 --> 00:51:18.842
What should you do after that?

00:51:19.023 --> 00:51:21.003
Immediately continue to work on your own

00:51:21.023 --> 00:51:21.384
problems.

00:51:21.844 --> 00:51:23.304
Because they're going to be background

00:51:23.344 --> 00:51:23.684
stuff.

00:51:23.784 --> 00:51:25.126
It's too big to move.

00:51:26.045 --> 00:51:27.606
So you'll notice...

00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.721
The stuff that APTA or large organizations

00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:33.221
do, it's moving like a, you know,

00:51:33.260 --> 00:51:34.440
you time it like a sundial.

00:51:34.481 --> 00:51:35.041
It's moving.

00:51:35.101 --> 00:51:36.001
It's just super slow.

00:51:36.041 --> 00:51:37.402
It's like, all right, well,

00:51:37.422 --> 00:51:38.222
that's out of my arena.

00:51:38.282 --> 00:51:39.523
But I am going there this weekend.

00:51:41.623 --> 00:51:43.083
I'll be doing some short interviews too.

00:51:43.364 --> 00:51:44.204
I'm doing more of those,

00:51:44.244 --> 00:51:45.623
just like three question interviews.

00:51:46.043 --> 00:51:46.905
Those turn out well.

00:51:47.445 --> 00:51:47.784
As well as,

00:51:47.885 --> 00:51:49.364
did you see the video I shared yesterday?

00:51:50.025 --> 00:51:51.346
Do you know those reaction videos?

00:51:52.469 --> 00:51:53.869
where it's a guy, he's really funny.

00:51:53.909 --> 00:51:55.871
He's got a beard and he'll have just

00:51:55.891 --> 00:51:58.472
a bunch of like videos from people like

00:51:58.512 --> 00:51:59.873
hurting themselves on job sites.

00:51:59.914 --> 00:52:01.253
Like a guy shoots himself with a nail

00:52:01.293 --> 00:52:02.514
gun or a guy falls off a ladder.

00:52:02.775 --> 00:52:04.836
And the video is weird clip.

00:52:04.876 --> 00:52:06.117
And then the guy's like looking at it.

00:52:06.137 --> 00:52:07.438
It's like him just like straight.

00:52:08.059 --> 00:52:08.898
And then he looks over here.

00:52:08.938 --> 00:52:09.840
So I was like,

00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:10.840
I'm going to steal that format.

00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:11.460
And I did that.

00:52:11.521 --> 00:52:12.581
And I went on Instagram and I found

00:52:12.601 --> 00:52:14.001
a bunch of weird rehab stuff,

00:52:14.322 --> 00:52:16.023
guy with a flamethrower,

00:52:16.344 --> 00:52:18.045
a guy with a Milwaukee buffer.

00:52:18.304 --> 00:52:18.585
And I'm like,

00:52:18.724 --> 00:52:20.065
I'm going to be the weird face between

00:52:20.286 --> 00:52:21.007
that video blew up.

00:52:21.606 --> 00:52:22.586
This just tells you.

00:52:23.047 --> 00:52:24.467
How many views right now?

00:52:24.568 --> 00:52:25.867
Because it looks like it got a bunch

00:52:25.887 --> 00:52:27.429
of comments and likes and reactions.

00:52:27.449 --> 00:52:28.309
It got a bunch of comments,

00:52:28.329 --> 00:52:29.028
a bunch of likes.

00:52:29.068 --> 00:52:29.469
I'm looking up.

00:52:29.849 --> 00:52:31.469
Is that like five or ten K already?

00:52:31.809 --> 00:52:32.449
It's already five.

00:52:32.510 --> 00:52:33.889
It was five K this morning.

00:52:33.909 --> 00:52:33.969
Wow.

00:52:34.050 --> 00:52:34.210
Nice.

00:52:34.309 --> 00:52:38.291
Actually, that's where it went down.

00:52:38.351 --> 00:52:38.871
It can't go down.

00:52:38.891 --> 00:52:39.672
It's not how views work.

00:52:40.032 --> 00:52:42.492
for for credit for k right now that's

00:52:42.572 --> 00:52:43.472
lower than i thought it would be i

00:52:43.512 --> 00:52:44.492
thought that would have been like a ten

00:52:44.532 --> 00:52:46.034
k in twenty four hours but we still

00:52:46.054 --> 00:52:47.733
got some time that is also funny how

00:52:47.773 --> 00:52:49.014
videos work though could do nothing

00:52:49.054 --> 00:52:52.496
nothing nothing pop so you never know um

00:52:53.835 --> 00:52:55.757
so that's the lesson there is take a

00:52:55.817 --> 00:52:58.458
format that's that's already working and

00:52:58.478 --> 00:53:00.619
then just how do i do my spin

00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:03.298
on it bow dr bow out in colorado

00:53:03.699 --> 00:53:05.699
says brilliant borrow yeah i just stole it

00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:06.981
i didn't borrow it i just stole it

00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:08.081
i was like i can do this

00:53:09.157 --> 00:53:09.318
Yeah,

00:53:09.378 --> 00:53:11.358
APT is a great community if you like

00:53:11.438 --> 00:53:13.119
that.

00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:14.699
Anyway, all right, parting shots.

00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:18.021
What do you got for us, Dave?

00:53:18.061 --> 00:53:20.702
Just for us continuing to focus on

00:53:20.942 --> 00:53:23.503
over-delivering value to our patients and

00:53:23.523 --> 00:53:23.922
clients.

00:53:24.123 --> 00:53:25.304
And when we do that,

00:53:25.443 --> 00:53:28.244
then we can easily map out projections of,

00:53:28.324 --> 00:53:28.505
hey,

00:53:28.545 --> 00:53:30.666
we got people paying four K per year.

00:53:31.465 --> 00:53:32.586
And here's how we could get them to

00:53:32.606 --> 00:53:33.626
pay six K per year.

00:53:33.646 --> 00:53:34.666
But it's not salesy.

00:53:34.706 --> 00:53:35.487
It's not pressuring.

00:53:35.527 --> 00:53:35.967
It's not...

00:53:36.568 --> 00:53:38.989
anything nefarious it's like can we unlock

00:53:39.028 --> 00:53:40.369
more value can we help them with more

00:53:40.409 --> 00:53:43.371
things get more referrals uh and that like

00:53:43.472 --> 00:53:44.452
i shared that with you guys because i

00:53:44.472 --> 00:53:46.032
was like that's always on my head which

00:53:46.072 --> 00:53:48.153
is like how can we obviously we want

00:53:48.173 --> 00:53:50.514
to grow and and get more patients and

00:53:50.534 --> 00:53:52.916
clients but one of the easiest levers for

00:53:53.016 --> 00:53:55.958
us is having the same patients and clients

00:53:56.458 --> 00:53:58.179
that were recently with us or even years

00:53:58.219 --> 00:54:01.300
ago continue to work with us and without

00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:02.782
that new customer acquisition cost

00:54:05.101 --> 00:54:06.443
They're a text message away, guys.

00:54:06.463 --> 00:54:08.483
They're an email away.

00:54:08.943 --> 00:54:11.244
I have them nearby somewhere.

00:54:11.744 --> 00:54:13.123
Send them handwritten thank you notes.

00:54:13.443 --> 00:54:14.264
Send them handwritten letters.

00:54:14.364 --> 00:54:16.405
Hey, hope you're having a great summer.

00:54:17.125 --> 00:54:17.744
Happy birthday.

00:54:19.085 --> 00:54:20.266
I mean,

00:54:20.505 --> 00:54:21.846
one of my patients that's been with me

00:54:21.885 --> 00:54:22.485
for two years,

00:54:22.505 --> 00:54:23.646
it was just his birthday like a week

00:54:23.666 --> 00:54:24.027
or two ago.

00:54:24.947 --> 00:54:26.527
and i was like i bought him a

00:54:26.588 --> 00:54:28.048
mini massage gun because he loves the

00:54:28.088 --> 00:54:29.449
massage guns i'm like you could travel

00:54:29.469 --> 00:54:30.391
with it you could do it when i'm

00:54:30.411 --> 00:54:33.914
not here uh yep jimmy's got this is

00:54:34.094 --> 00:54:38.056
this is uh sponsored here we go um

00:54:38.077 --> 00:54:39.697
so so i got this i got this

00:54:39.717 --> 00:54:43.000
guy a one of those heichi massage guns

00:54:43.019 --> 00:54:45.101
they're like fifty bucks and then i said

00:54:45.181 --> 00:54:47.262
i'm also gonna get you uh a fifty

00:54:47.282 --> 00:54:48.884
five minute in-home massage from this

00:54:48.923 --> 00:54:51.306
other company this other person now i'm

00:54:51.545 --> 00:54:52.827
i'm giving this massage therapist a

00:54:52.847 --> 00:54:53.208
referral

00:54:54.385 --> 00:54:58.371
And the patient is beyond impressed and

00:54:58.472 --> 00:54:59.813
was super surprised.

00:55:00.353 --> 00:55:01.896
But this guy has spent forty five thousand

00:55:01.916 --> 00:55:03.458
dollars with us in two years.

00:55:03.478 --> 00:55:05.221
He bought himself the massage gun.

00:55:05.802 --> 00:55:07.344
It's already baked into the profit, baby.

00:55:07.523 --> 00:55:08.545
So anyway, for it.

00:55:10.695 --> 00:55:12.396
Oh, long thing for Matt.

00:55:12.436 --> 00:55:13.376
Matt's saying what we're saying.

00:55:13.396 --> 00:55:14.538
People need to stop looking for a potato

00:55:14.557 --> 00:55:15.137
to solve their problems.

00:55:15.978 --> 00:55:17.179
They're not a marketing agency.

00:55:17.498 --> 00:55:18.159
They're not.

00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.099
It's in the name.

00:55:19.179 --> 00:55:21.061
They're a professional association.

00:55:21.161 --> 00:55:22.882
They're where professionals associate.

00:55:22.961 --> 00:55:23.782
That is a place.

00:55:23.822 --> 00:55:24.583
That is a community.

00:55:25.123 --> 00:55:26.143
Not a marketing agency.

00:55:26.204 --> 00:55:26.583
I'm very sorry.

00:55:26.603 --> 00:55:27.304
They're not built for that.

00:55:29.405 --> 00:55:31.987
That's brilliant.

00:55:32.668 --> 00:55:34.268
In your brain, do you have...

00:55:35.068 --> 00:55:35.429
hey,

00:55:35.909 --> 00:55:39.710
when a patient has netted me or grossed,

00:55:40.311 --> 00:55:42.831
no, netted, netted me ten K,

00:55:43.552 --> 00:55:44.913
I should get them a dinner at like

00:55:44.992 --> 00:55:46.094
four seasons or something.

00:55:46.994 --> 00:55:47.514
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:47.693 --> 00:55:50.896
Dude, if someone netted us ten K,

00:55:51.335 --> 00:55:53.496
why would I not spend a thousand dollars

00:55:53.536 --> 00:55:54.856
on them?

00:55:54.996 --> 00:55:56.077
Stop being cheap.

00:55:56.117 --> 00:55:56.777
Stop being cheap.

00:55:56.797 --> 00:55:57.677
Come on.

00:55:57.737 --> 00:55:59.498
But never say spend ten K and get

00:55:59.518 --> 00:56:00.199
the tote bag.

00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:01.179
Just...

00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:03.762
Send them a thing like I have a

00:56:03.802 --> 00:56:06.268
reservation for you standing at Smith and

00:56:06.288 --> 00:56:06.969
Walensky's.

00:56:07.570 --> 00:56:09.152
What's Peter Luger, right?

00:56:09.172 --> 00:56:09.853
That's the big one.

00:56:10.034 --> 00:56:10.815
Was that Brooklyn?

00:56:10.976 --> 00:56:11.737
Peter Luger.

00:56:12.579 --> 00:56:14.141
Your name, whatever you want.

00:56:14.161 --> 00:56:15.141
The bill comes to me.

00:56:15.242 --> 00:56:15.722
Thank you.

00:56:16.043 --> 00:56:18.284
And that feels gangster.

00:56:18.666 --> 00:56:20.768
That feels like Goodfellas,

00:56:21.128 --> 00:56:24.490
which is worth way more than a thousand

00:56:24.510 --> 00:56:25.711
bucks.

00:56:25.771 --> 00:56:28.494
And it's got to be something that it's

00:56:28.534 --> 00:56:30.036
not a branded t-shirt from us.

00:56:30.097 --> 00:56:32.097
That's not a birthday gift.

00:56:32.838 --> 00:56:34.320
that's about us it's got to be something

00:56:34.340 --> 00:56:36.041
that they care about that would benefit

00:56:36.081 --> 00:56:38.222
them that does not have your logo on

00:56:38.262 --> 00:56:40.065
it and then when their friends come over

00:56:40.304 --> 00:56:42.347
they want to show their friends and tell

00:56:42.387 --> 00:56:44.047
their friends about their physical

00:56:44.108 --> 00:56:45.588
therapist that got them this gift or

00:56:45.608 --> 00:56:48.210
whatever so you know cutting knives like

00:56:48.251 --> 00:56:53.135
whatever it is yeah knives would be cool

00:56:55.643 --> 00:56:56.244
If they cook,

00:56:56.364 --> 00:56:57.885
if they prepare their own food,

00:56:58.824 --> 00:57:00.606
you got to know their thing.

00:57:00.826 --> 00:57:02.726
And when they're spending four to six

00:57:02.746 --> 00:57:03.686
grand with you per year,

00:57:03.947 --> 00:57:05.186
you better know their thing.

00:57:05.547 --> 00:57:06.327
And time.

00:57:06.706 --> 00:57:07.867
That has probably come up.

00:57:08.007 --> 00:57:08.407
Oh my God,

00:57:08.447 --> 00:57:09.867
I've always wanted to take my kid to

00:57:09.907 --> 00:57:12.009
a Yankee game and sit in a box.

00:57:12.068 --> 00:57:13.708
And you're like, mental note, got it.

00:57:13.728 --> 00:57:15.250
Don't worry about it.

00:57:15.750 --> 00:57:16.869
And you go on eBay and you get

00:57:17.329 --> 00:57:17.670
whatever.

00:57:18.190 --> 00:57:19.150
That carries weight.

00:57:19.510 --> 00:57:20.451
My parting shot would be

00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:23.880
expectation for reality,

00:57:24.481 --> 00:57:25.240
make sure they match.

00:57:25.420 --> 00:57:26.041
And if they don't,

00:57:26.222 --> 00:57:27.242
that's why people are pissed.

00:57:28.003 --> 00:57:29.824
And again, to reiterate,

00:57:29.905 --> 00:57:31.206
it's not really Alex Ramos's thing,

00:57:31.246 --> 00:57:32.146
but he does hammer it a lot.

00:57:32.166 --> 00:57:34.568
There's only three ways to not even make

00:57:34.608 --> 00:57:35.809
more money, serve people better,

00:57:36.291 --> 00:57:38.032
get more people to come to your thing

00:57:38.052 --> 00:57:38.672
or buy your thing.

00:57:39.273 --> 00:57:40.954
Get those people to come back more often.

00:57:41.094 --> 00:57:41.715
Those are different.

00:57:42.076 --> 00:57:43.818
And get those people who come back to

00:57:43.938 --> 00:57:45.440
spend or do more.

00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:47.481
Those are the only three ways.

00:57:47.501 --> 00:57:49.643
I'll report back after I'm back from APTA.

00:57:49.664 --> 00:57:51.226
We'll see how that goes.

00:57:51.266 --> 00:57:53.347
We'll see if we've changed the world in

00:57:53.427 --> 00:57:55.150
Portland this weekend.

00:57:55.610 --> 00:57:56.490
Dave, have a good weekend.

00:57:56.550 --> 00:57:57.211
Yeah, fingers crossed.

00:57:58.672 --> 00:57:58.913
That's it.

00:57:58.932 --> 00:57:59.112
We're out.

00:57:59.132 --> 00:58:00.653
Boys, what the hell are you doing?

00:58:00.713 --> 00:58:03.514
Follow Tony Meritato on YouTube at Total

00:58:03.554 --> 00:58:04.596
Therapy Solution.

00:58:04.635 --> 00:58:05.635
Find Dave Kittle at

00:58:05.655 --> 00:58:08.858
ConciergePainRelief.com and on YouTube at

00:58:08.878 --> 00:58:10.139
The Dave Kittle Show.

00:58:10.378 --> 00:58:13.300
And follow Jimmy McKay at PT Podcasts on

00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:14.701
YouTube, the socials,

00:58:14.780 --> 00:58:16.561
and wherever you binge podcasts you

00:58:16.581 --> 00:58:18.242
pretend are for CEUs.

00:58:18.563 --> 00:58:20.003
And hey, just a reminder,

00:58:20.483 --> 00:58:21.784
none of this was for advice.

00:58:21.824 --> 00:58:23.125
This was for entertainment only.

00:58:23.144 --> 00:58:24.965
Our lawyers say that counts.

00:58:25.045 --> 00:58:25.947
Thanks, Keith.