The Therapist Who Took the Interview While Driving

WEBVTT

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Broadcasting way too early from three

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separate Wi-Fi connections.

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It's PT Breakfast Club with Tony Meritato,

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Dave Kittle, and Jimmy McKay.

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And we are live.

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Dave Kittle, Tony Meritato, Jimmy McKay.

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So before we went live, I said,

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we are never sick.

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And, you know,

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we've had this conversation before,

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but it's worth bringing up again.

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I've got a

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physical therapist assistant I work with,

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I told him a couple months ago,

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I actually got sick.

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I never get sick.

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I said,

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I don't think you've ever called out sick

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in like,

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fifteen years of working together.

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Finding somebody like that is so

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impactful,

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not just from the perspective of having a

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stable employee,

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But also just in personal life, you know,

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when I think of my boys,

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I think of them meeting women that they're

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gonna maybe potentially marry.

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I think of the personality,

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I think of other things.

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But one of the things I think about

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is, you know,

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what's going to happen if you marry

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somebody who maybe has a different

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i'm going to use the word constitution i

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don't know if that's the right word but

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like somebody who gets sick a lot somebody

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has a weak immune system somebody who has

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personal issues and and disability and

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while i i empathize with individuals who

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are suffering and going through some of

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those challenges i also look at you know

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what are my boys going to be facing

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whether it be heaven forbid them dealing

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with it or them

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having feelings for somebody who's like

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that.

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Have you been in situations business-wise

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where you hire somebody who's an amazing

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therapist, but they're just always sick,

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they're always out,

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they're always unable to perform?

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Not to that extent, luckily, so far.

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What about on a team?

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You're a sports guy.

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Uh, oh yeah, of course, of course.

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Um, by the way,

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just some of the things that you're

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talking about,

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like there's some things that are maybe

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out of our control and then some things

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that are controllable,

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but in terms of like showing up early,

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showing up on time, uh,

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not bringing your personal challenges into

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work, like not bringing your, you know,

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if your spouse,

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you and your spouse or your family have

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an argument or something and like, uh,

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that's the way I operate.

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I don't know.

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Like, just like,

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I'm not going to bring in some fight

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or some, I don't know, like,

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even if it was like something like

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driving, like a, I don't know, like a,

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like a slow driver or something like that

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happened outside of work.

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I'm not going to bring that into work.

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And luckily we haven't had much of that

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in terms of hiring,

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in terms of

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being on teams whether it's work teams or

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even baseball teams absolutely um we're

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we're just where players just ghost a team

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for a while then they come back and

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they're like like they're expecting like

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to be all good literally just happened

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this summer with our baseball team where

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um our our ace pitcher uh was just

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gone for like two months

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Um, and there,

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there were some signs that there was an

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assistant coach that kind of said like,

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once it gets hot and once the,

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you know, once it's like the summer,

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this guy is out,

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like he's at the Jersey shore, uh,

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he's partying and turns out the assistant

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coach was completely correct.

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Uh,

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and then he just came back yesterday to

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pitch the, the do the, uh,

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win or go home last uh championship game

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and we actually lost we were in the

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championship and we lost but this guy was

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he was he was good enough in terms

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of performance but you could you could

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tell that he was a little rusty and

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when he's on he's like really on like

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no one can touch a slider he's really

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on and so i don't know where we're

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gonna navigate this to like physical

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therapy business or healthcare but like

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for me with that

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Like,

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it's hard to respect someone who has

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talent,

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who has such great ability to contribute

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to a team,

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but then lets the team down in one

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or more ways, whether they're coming late,

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they ghost the team for a while,

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they're not answering text messages,

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they're saying that they got enough,

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so many little stories around that.

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But yeah,

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there's some things that are in your

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control and some things that health-wise

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may be out of your control.

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it's the things that are in your control

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like like we talked about before like you

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know sleep and you know all the all

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the things that you could do to optimize

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your health uh to best participate with

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your team whether it's a sports team

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whether it's your job helping more

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patients helping helping the team with the

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mission of impacting more patients

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wherever you live so those are some things

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that come to mind

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Yeah, so you work with a business coach,

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you work with Sturdy,

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you've talked in the past about like

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interview processes, interview questions.

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My question to you would be one,

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Do you address that?

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Do you have any,

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like some people will say,

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tell me about a time that, you know,

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you woke up, you were sick,

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you couldn't come to work.

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How did you handle that?

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Because they probably have a full caseload

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scheduled.

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They're gonna dump all of that

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responsibility onto somebody else at the

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organization,

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or they're gonna cancel all those people

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and you're gonna lose

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basically the entire profit margin for the

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week.

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So are there interview questions that come

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into play before you hire somebody?

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And then the other part of that is,

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and or do you plan do you build

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the system like i have in the past

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built a system for somebody who like your

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picture this guy in the clinic was amazing

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everybody loved him patients loved him but

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he had a weak constitution he was sick

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all the time so i had to build

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a business model that supported and

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allowed him

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to come in when he was feeling good

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call off when he was feeling sick without

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completely disrupting the entire

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organization so i did that because he was

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good enough that i'd rather have him at

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his best when he was available than not

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have him at all so question number one

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is on the interview process do you think

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about this do you do you look for

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this do you question any of this

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I don't know if I question it directly

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because it's usually like, you know, hey,

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tell me about a time when you had

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a challenging patient.

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Tell me about a time when there was

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a miscommunication with a patient.

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Or tell me about a time when there

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was a challenge or issue that was

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confronted by your that where your manager

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or director or boss had to address address

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something with you,

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because like usually they'll be able to

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pull out something.

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You know,

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tell me about a time when you had

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a conflict with a coworker or conflict

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with a patient or conflict with your

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clinical instructor or your boss or your

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manager,

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someone who was kind of like managing you.

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And with our process,

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fifteen minute phone call,

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then a sixty minute Zoom call.

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And then if they if we continue,

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then it's a one hour meeting in person

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skills assessment.

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They evaluate me on the mock patient.

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from those three touch points i think you

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can at least for me um it helps

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obviously with like interviewing more and

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more and more therapists um you can really

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get a good sense of someone i i

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believe in those three touch points

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sometimes in the past two years or so

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two three years um after the mock

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evaluation sometimes i will depending on

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multiple reasons we might go out like

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maybe i tell the therapist like hey

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there's this great place nearby or i'm

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hungry and hey like are you you know

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if it's around lunchtime or whatever

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um then i'll i'll say hey you want

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to like grab it you want to grab

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some food it's on me like we'll grab

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some lunch nearby i like this place nearby

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or whatever and then it's even more

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minutes of me observing how they just

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interact like do they try to hold the

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door for someone else do they say thank

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you or no thank you or yes please

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whatever just like simple little things to

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the the waiter or waitress um how how

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do they

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how do they navigate all that?

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And then now if that's the potential

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fourth touch point,

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it's like a lot of minutes of how

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they just, how they interact.

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And you Tony know,

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and we all know that they're on their

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best behavior in the beginning of this

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whole interview process.

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So it's never,

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this is what sturdy helps me,

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helps me with.

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They are never going to be better than

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that first three or four touch points for

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us.

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Never.

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So it's like,

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Now,

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when you interview more and more

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therapists,

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it doesn't matter if it's therapists or

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anyone else,

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any other type of potential employee or

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team member,

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they're never going to be better than

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that.

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So it's like,

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it needs to be like a heck yes

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to hire them.

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And if it's on the fence,

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like it's probably not the right fit or

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it's probably like someone who... Yeah,

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like there could be challenges.

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So in terms of finding out,

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do they call out a lot or...

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they're not going to be reliable.

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It is a little bit challenging,

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but that's when you triangulate, like,

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do they show up on time for the

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call?

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Do they answer right away?

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And here's an example really quick.

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So maybe a month ago,

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I had a fifteen minute phone screen,

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like the first step of our process,

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a fifteen minute phone screen with a

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candidate that I had DMed on LinkedIn.

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We scheduled the time.

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I called the individual at

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I don't know.

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It was eleven a.m.

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I called the individual at eleven a.m.

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They don't answer.

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I send the individual because I like to

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over communicate.

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I send the individual a text and I

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think an email or a LinkedIn DM.

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I like two touch points.

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I like, hey,

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we had a call scheduled for eleven a.m.

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I just called you and left a voicemail.

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But then I'm over communicating by saying

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I'm putting this in text and or email

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form so that now there is a paper

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trail of that.

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Right.

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The individual calls me back,

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I think like six to eight minutes later,

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which is already too long,

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like already too many minutes beyond.

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So already I'm like this,

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this person is going to have to like

00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:46.283
really jump over the high bar here to

00:10:46.322 --> 00:10:46.484
like,

00:10:46.563 --> 00:10:48.504
wow me to even go to the next

00:10:48.544 --> 00:10:48.784
step,

00:10:48.804 --> 00:10:49.985
which would be a six minute zoom

00:10:50.046 --> 00:10:50.346
interview.

00:10:50.407 --> 00:10:51.807
The point of this first phone call,

00:10:52.347 --> 00:10:54.049
the fifteen minute phone call is to make

00:10:54.090 --> 00:10:55.230
sure and confirm.

00:10:55.471 --> 00:10:57.052
Does it make sense for me to even

00:10:57.131 --> 00:10:59.553
invest for me and you to even invest

00:10:59.614 --> 00:11:01.456
more time the next one hour on a

00:11:01.495 --> 00:11:01.875
zoom call?

00:11:03.068 --> 00:11:06.051
The potential therapist calls me back at

00:11:06.370 --> 00:11:07.913
eleven oh six or eleven oh eight or

00:11:07.932 --> 00:11:08.153
whatever.

00:11:08.212 --> 00:11:08.533
Already,

00:11:08.572 --> 00:11:10.333
I'm like past four or five minutes like

00:11:10.354 --> 00:11:12.676
that's not a good sign.

00:11:12.755 --> 00:11:13.517
And guess what, Tony?

00:11:14.918 --> 00:11:16.239
I hear I hear them.

00:11:16.458 --> 00:11:17.299
I hear them driving.

00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:19.500
I hear I hear the windshield wipers going

00:11:20.721 --> 00:11:21.243
and I go.

00:11:22.927 --> 00:11:24.528
I go, I'm sorry, I'm a little,

00:11:24.927 --> 00:11:26.629
maybe I'm out of line here.

00:11:27.029 --> 00:11:28.291
Are you driving right now?

00:11:28.910 --> 00:11:29.812
And they're like, yeah.

00:11:30.052 --> 00:11:32.133
And then I go, yeah, hey, I'm sorry.

00:11:32.192 --> 00:11:32.352
I mean,

00:11:32.393 --> 00:11:34.794
I didn't have this in like the booking

00:11:34.975 --> 00:11:37.537
of when you booked this with my Calendly

00:11:37.576 --> 00:11:37.777
link.

00:11:38.836 --> 00:11:39.976
because I didn't think I need to even

00:11:40.017 --> 00:11:40.258
say it.

00:11:40.317 --> 00:11:42.697
But, um, when I do these calls, I,

00:11:44.139 --> 00:11:45.940
myself and the candidate, I don't,

00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:48.541
I don't do these calls when one of

00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:51.100
us is driving, uh, or, or that,

00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:52.522
or a noisy background, not,

00:11:52.682 --> 00:11:54.623
not on a noisy New York city corner,

00:11:54.722 --> 00:11:56.102
not in a Starbucks.

00:11:56.823 --> 00:11:58.283
Um,

00:11:58.504 --> 00:12:01.065
and that sounds like green eggs and ham,

00:12:01.284 --> 00:12:02.966
not on a train, not on a plane.

00:12:03.446 --> 00:12:03.806
Yes.

00:12:04.105 --> 00:12:04.245
Yeah.

00:12:04.365 --> 00:12:04.865
And yeah.

00:12:04.926 --> 00:12:06.246
And so, um,

00:12:07.764 --> 00:12:09.546
So the, I said, yeah, I don't,

00:12:09.605 --> 00:12:09.947
I'm sorry.

00:12:09.966 --> 00:12:11.128
I don't, I don't do these calls.

00:12:11.807 --> 00:12:13.568
If the candidate is driving,

00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:15.530
like I'm distracted, maybe,

00:12:15.711 --> 00:12:16.831
maybe you could be distracted.

00:12:16.892 --> 00:12:18.033
I don't want you to be a distracted

00:12:18.072 --> 00:12:18.493
driver.

00:12:18.974 --> 00:12:20.174
And the therapist, the therapist was like,

00:12:20.195 --> 00:12:20.995
oh no, no, no, it's all right.

00:12:21.014 --> 00:12:21.335
It's all right.

00:12:21.434 --> 00:12:22.556
And I go, oh no,

00:12:23.456 --> 00:12:24.638
that's fine that you're okay with it.

00:12:25.418 --> 00:12:27.399
I'm not okay with it because I don't

00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:28.541
think that it's,

00:12:28.561 --> 00:12:29.721
I think it's hard for you to be

00:12:29.861 --> 00:12:31.202
all in on this phone call because in

00:12:31.243 --> 00:12:32.163
this minute block,

00:12:32.724 --> 00:12:34.325
this is potentially the future of your

00:12:34.345 --> 00:12:36.086
career and you're not looking at it that

00:12:36.106 --> 00:12:36.246
way.

00:12:37.678 --> 00:12:40.020
And so we ended it and I said,

00:12:40.061 --> 00:12:41.261
hey, best of luck, take care.

00:12:41.942 --> 00:12:43.264
This is the end of the road for

00:12:43.344 --> 00:12:43.524
us.

00:12:43.844 --> 00:12:46.145
I wish you all the best and thanks

00:12:46.186 --> 00:12:46.907
for reaching out.

00:12:46.947 --> 00:12:47.727
Or I guess I reached out,

00:12:47.748 --> 00:12:49.448
but thank you for scheduling the call.

00:12:49.889 --> 00:12:52.192
But I don't think this is the right

00:12:52.231 --> 00:12:52.451
fit.

00:12:54.403 --> 00:12:55.182
be well and take care.

00:12:55.202 --> 00:12:56.683
And we ended the phone call.

00:12:57.244 --> 00:12:59.585
And so it's like, that is so wild.

00:12:59.625 --> 00:13:00.505
Like these days, like,

00:13:00.806 --> 00:13:02.125
and even though my son's going to grow

00:13:02.145 --> 00:13:03.506
up around like all this technology and

00:13:03.547 --> 00:13:05.927
stuff, like I'm going to bake in,

00:13:06.067 --> 00:13:08.908
I'm going to hammer the importance of all

00:13:08.928 --> 00:13:09.308
of that,

00:13:09.969 --> 00:13:12.711
that if you are serious enough to

00:13:12.791 --> 00:13:13.551
interview with someone,

00:13:13.910 --> 00:13:15.751
why in the world would,

00:13:16.243 --> 00:13:18.104
Would you schedule it when you're like on

00:13:18.124 --> 00:13:18.625
the go?

00:13:18.804 --> 00:13:20.285
Like you obviously are not serious.

00:13:20.405 --> 00:13:23.006
And then the therapist is kind of saying

00:13:23.226 --> 00:13:24.548
like, no, no, it's all it's all good.

00:13:24.587 --> 00:13:26.249
Like basically they're saying that they

00:13:26.288 --> 00:13:26.809
are serious.

00:13:27.149 --> 00:13:27.710
But guess what?

00:13:28.291 --> 00:13:30.192
The rest of the world is not really

00:13:30.231 --> 00:13:32.793
going to judge that to be serious.

00:13:33.014 --> 00:13:33.553
Does that make sense?

00:13:34.201 --> 00:13:35.100
It makes sense.

00:13:35.140 --> 00:13:37.001
So now my question to you is,

00:13:38.363 --> 00:13:39.482
that was a lesson learned.

00:13:40.264 --> 00:13:41.844
In your mind, you're like,

00:13:42.004 --> 00:13:44.465
I can't believe he even considered

00:13:44.985 --> 00:13:47.206
multitasking when we're doing this

00:13:47.267 --> 00:13:47.787
interview.

00:13:48.346 --> 00:13:50.288
In his mind, he was like,

00:13:50.427 --> 00:13:51.168
what's the big deal?

00:13:51.187 --> 00:13:52.249
I'm just going to answer a bunch of

00:13:52.288 --> 00:13:52.749
questions.

00:13:52.769 --> 00:13:53.749
We're going to talk.

00:13:53.788 --> 00:13:54.250
Who cares?

00:13:56.890 --> 00:13:58.551
For you, though, moving forward,

00:13:58.610 --> 00:13:59.451
lesson learned,

00:14:00.541 --> 00:14:03.022
Now do you communicate that to future

00:14:03.062 --> 00:14:04.182
candidates that, hey,

00:14:04.582 --> 00:14:07.683
this is an important meeting between us.

00:14:07.803 --> 00:14:08.904
I want you to be focused.

00:14:08.965 --> 00:14:11.446
I want you to be in on it.

00:14:11.525 --> 00:14:12.105
Don't drive.

00:14:12.145 --> 00:14:12.785
Don't do this.

00:14:12.826 --> 00:14:14.927
Don't watch kids in the background while

00:14:14.966 --> 00:14:15.748
you're talking to me.

00:14:16.628 --> 00:14:19.211
Or do you leave that information out that

00:14:19.272 --> 00:14:21.094
context to see what they would do

00:14:21.193 --> 00:14:21.914
naturally?

00:14:22.635 --> 00:14:24.738
I think leaving it out is what a

00:14:24.778 --> 00:14:26.821
lot of employers would consider doing

00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:28.363
because they want to see what this person

00:14:28.403 --> 00:14:29.144
does naturally.

00:14:29.203 --> 00:14:32.106
But I think that's a bad strategy because

00:14:33.054 --> 00:14:34.375
you're setting them up for failure

00:14:34.416 --> 00:14:34.996
effectively.

00:14:35.456 --> 00:14:35.857
It's like,

00:14:35.937 --> 00:14:37.019
I'm not going to tell you what the

00:14:37.058 --> 00:14:38.139
expectation is.

00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:40.501
You need to meet the expectation or exceed

00:14:40.601 --> 00:14:42.244
it without even knowing.

00:14:42.563 --> 00:14:45.006
And the expectation is totally in my mind.

00:14:45.606 --> 00:14:47.849
I don't like that kind of interview,

00:14:47.908 --> 00:14:50.572
but I'm just curious what you're doing

00:14:50.692 --> 00:14:51.413
moving forward.

00:14:52.841 --> 00:14:55.224
so i'll have to check maybe i can

00:14:55.244 --> 00:14:57.466
check it as we're talking but my calendly

00:14:57.505 --> 00:14:59.626
link so right now i send someone a

00:14:59.667 --> 00:15:01.609
link and they grab a fifteen minute call

00:15:01.668 --> 00:15:04.091
slot and it should say some instructions i

00:15:04.110 --> 00:15:05.652
know for sure because the next step is

00:15:05.971 --> 00:15:08.354
a separate link through my calendly link

00:15:08.394 --> 00:15:10.796
or calendar where they can book a time

00:15:10.836 --> 00:15:12.616
for the sixty minute zoom call and that

00:15:12.736 --> 00:15:14.979
absolutely has instructions the the zoom

00:15:14.999 --> 00:15:15.740
call because it's like

00:15:16.909 --> 00:15:17.370
Um,

00:15:17.389 --> 00:15:19.851
please be in a quiet place with solid

00:15:19.871 --> 00:15:20.351
wifi.

00:15:20.392 --> 00:15:21.852
Please check your wifi before the zoom

00:15:21.873 --> 00:15:22.153
call.

00:15:22.893 --> 00:15:25.494
I suggest, uh, earbuds, headphones,

00:15:25.614 --> 00:15:27.575
headset, although it's not required,

00:15:27.615 --> 00:15:29.937
but for audio purposes, that's optimal,

00:15:30.557 --> 00:15:32.118
uh,

00:15:32.177 --> 00:15:34.678
screen at eye level with a light or,

00:15:34.698 --> 00:15:37.080
you know, a light or window facing you.

00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:38.801
So it says it for the zoom call.

00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:40.341
Yeah.

00:15:40.422 --> 00:15:42.562
It might not for the intro phone call,

00:15:42.643 --> 00:15:42.802
but.

00:15:44.532 --> 00:15:45.634
maybe, you know what?

00:15:45.994 --> 00:15:46.335
I don't know.

00:15:46.534 --> 00:15:47.797
Like there's, there's pros and cons,

00:15:47.817 --> 00:15:49.539
but it's like the historically,

00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:50.961
like the right fit for us.

00:15:51.722 --> 00:15:51.942
Yeah.

00:15:51.962 --> 00:15:53.085
It's just, it's just not,

00:15:53.225 --> 00:15:55.649
they're just not going to ever consider

00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:56.990
taking this phone call.

00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:00.630
uh in the subway with a with a

00:16:00.711 --> 00:16:03.051
screeching train in the background to five

00:16:03.071 --> 00:16:06.111
feet away or whatever you know or um

00:16:06.392 --> 00:16:08.393
on a busy corner with cabs beeping and

00:16:08.413 --> 00:16:12.533
cars beeping and and people shouting um so

00:16:12.573 --> 00:16:14.315
i think there's pros and cons like i

00:16:14.514 --> 00:16:19.856
agree this again this this is the best

00:16:20.157 --> 00:16:20.797
that they will

00:16:22.164 --> 00:16:25.326
behave ever in the beginning of the

00:16:25.346 --> 00:16:26.667
interaction in the beginning of the

00:16:26.687 --> 00:16:29.248
interview process so with this therapist

00:16:30.188 --> 00:16:32.549
in the car and it was like kind

00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:34.451
of like it was not that it wasn't

00:16:34.510 --> 00:16:36.511
subtle it was like i hear the road

00:16:36.932 --> 00:16:40.193
i hear the windshield wipers i mean not

00:16:40.214 --> 00:16:42.495
that i have you know any significant type

00:16:42.534 --> 00:16:44.235
of levels of hearing like anything

00:16:44.275 --> 00:16:46.456
different than anyone else so um

00:16:47.609 --> 00:16:50.269
my opinion that therapist just was like ah

00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:53.591
like whatever and not taking it seriously

00:16:53.610 --> 00:16:56.692
enough and so that's that's a huge flag

00:16:56.772 --> 00:16:59.393
and then but the ones that the ones

00:16:59.413 --> 00:17:00.513
that start with us and the ones that

00:17:00.533 --> 00:17:03.734
stay with us would never do that that's

00:17:03.774 --> 00:17:05.555
the thing so it's like if we put

00:17:05.595 --> 00:17:09.135
it as a heads up maybe some of

00:17:09.155 --> 00:17:11.576
the bad fits slip through maybe and then

00:17:11.616 --> 00:17:12.936
maybe that maybe that's not a good thing

00:17:13.854 --> 00:17:16.394
Well, and that's how my business evolved.

00:17:16.414 --> 00:17:16.694
You know,

00:17:16.835 --> 00:17:19.537
I go back to the first probably five

00:17:19.576 --> 00:17:21.718
or six years that we started the business.

00:17:22.817 --> 00:17:25.000
I was in the mindset of I don't

00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:26.440
want to taint the pool.

00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.240
I want to see what they do naturally.

00:17:28.280 --> 00:17:30.221
I want to see what their behavior is,

00:17:30.281 --> 00:17:31.942
what their core values are.

00:17:32.962 --> 00:17:35.104
It was all about them kind of proving

00:17:35.144 --> 00:17:37.144
to us that they're a good fit for

00:17:37.184 --> 00:17:38.125
the organization.

00:17:38.645 --> 00:17:39.747
They're going to fit the culture.

00:17:40.426 --> 00:17:43.169
Then as things kind of migrated toward,

00:17:43.189 --> 00:17:43.749
wait a minute,

00:17:43.828 --> 00:17:45.150
I don't need these guys to be my

00:17:45.190 --> 00:17:45.829
best friend.

00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:47.651
We're not hanging out at happy hours

00:17:47.711 --> 00:17:48.172
anymore.

00:17:48.291 --> 00:17:50.252
I'm not going out with the crew anymore.

00:17:50.833 --> 00:17:51.973
The business was growing,

00:17:52.034 --> 00:17:53.335
locations were opening.

00:17:54.214 --> 00:17:54.915
Now it was like, no,

00:17:55.276 --> 00:17:56.596
I don't care about any of that stuff.

00:17:57.076 --> 00:17:57.938
This is what I want.

00:17:57.998 --> 00:17:59.198
This is the expectation.

00:17:59.258 --> 00:18:01.279
Now you make the decision candidate.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.320
Are you going to fit this or are

00:18:04.361 --> 00:18:04.761
you not?

00:18:05.481 --> 00:18:07.482
And I think it's interesting that you've

00:18:07.502 --> 00:18:08.743
said it a couple of times,

00:18:09.084 --> 00:18:11.484
the interview is the best they're ever

00:18:11.525 --> 00:18:12.925
gonna be.

00:18:12.945 --> 00:18:14.866
They're putting their best foot forward.

00:18:15.086 --> 00:18:16.607
What's interesting to me about that,

00:18:16.627 --> 00:18:18.028
and I don't think I ever thought about

00:18:18.068 --> 00:18:18.328
this,

00:18:19.169 --> 00:18:21.549
I've been saying on the AI side of

00:18:21.589 --> 00:18:22.010
things,

00:18:22.851 --> 00:18:25.172
AI is never going to be worse than

00:18:25.231 --> 00:18:26.012
it is today.

00:18:26.053 --> 00:18:29.434
It's like the polar opposite of what we're

00:18:29.515 --> 00:18:30.535
looking at.

00:18:30.575 --> 00:18:32.395
It's like I buy a bar of gold,

00:18:32.916 --> 00:18:34.617
it's just going to be more expensive in

00:18:34.657 --> 00:18:35.218
the future.

00:18:35.958 --> 00:18:37.259
I run ads today,

00:18:37.459 --> 00:18:39.079
they're just going to be more expensive in

00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.779
the future.

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:41.882
But when we're talking about staff,

00:18:41.902 --> 00:18:43.583
when we're talking about employees,

00:18:44.482 --> 00:18:46.104
it shouldn't be that way though.

00:18:46.884 --> 00:18:49.286
Don't you say you were a better therapist

00:18:49.306 --> 00:18:51.227
today than you were fifteen years ago?

00:18:52.958 --> 00:18:53.218
Yes,

00:18:53.238 --> 00:18:54.500
but we're not talking about clinical

00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:54.799
skills.

00:18:54.819 --> 00:18:59.023
We're talking about behavior and how

00:18:59.144 --> 00:19:00.065
you're handling yourself.

00:19:00.705 --> 00:19:01.586
Theoretically,

00:19:01.606 --> 00:19:03.969
you would be a better person as you

00:19:04.009 --> 00:19:05.490
gain life experience,

00:19:05.570 --> 00:19:07.893
as you grow and mature.

00:19:08.333 --> 00:19:08.653
Yes.

00:19:10.115 --> 00:19:10.695
Theoretically.

00:19:10.756 --> 00:19:11.517
Theoretically,

00:19:11.576 --> 00:19:12.877
it sounds great and it makes sense.

00:19:12.917 --> 00:19:15.881
However, we're talking about behavior.

00:19:17.107 --> 00:19:19.670
And when people get comfortable six months

00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:21.991
in, twelve months in, whatever, to a job,

00:19:22.011 --> 00:19:23.732
they let their hair down.

00:19:24.133 --> 00:19:25.334
They get more comfortable.

00:19:25.654 --> 00:19:29.678
Maybe they say things that are off color

00:19:29.837 --> 00:19:33.901
or they like what you're describing,

00:19:33.921 --> 00:19:36.423
the guy that was chronically calling out

00:19:36.482 --> 00:19:36.883
for you,

00:19:36.923 --> 00:19:40.905
that was good and performed when they were

00:19:40.925 --> 00:19:42.567
there and patients probably love them.

00:19:43.877 --> 00:19:45.398
but then calling out more and more and

00:19:45.419 --> 00:19:45.659
more,

00:19:45.919 --> 00:19:47.838
whether that's PTO or on their own time,

00:19:47.858 --> 00:19:49.420
but it's still someone who is not

00:19:49.460 --> 00:19:49.960
reliable.

00:19:50.660 --> 00:19:51.980
So we're talking about behavior and

00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.560
behavior is something that the interview

00:19:54.580 --> 00:19:57.781
process typically will prompt most people

00:19:58.521 --> 00:20:03.523
to behave above their average of when they

00:20:03.564 --> 00:20:04.364
get comfortable,

00:20:04.963 --> 00:20:08.865
they will default to their natural

00:20:09.505 --> 00:20:11.165
mechanisms or their natural behavior,

00:20:11.205 --> 00:20:11.965
which might be

00:20:14.634 --> 00:20:16.434
not what they're initially demonstrating.

00:20:16.515 --> 00:20:18.737
Now, on the positive side,

00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:22.779
the great therapist that we hire,

00:20:23.887 --> 00:20:27.530
they will be closer to their initial

00:20:27.851 --> 00:20:29.352
behavior demonstration.

00:20:29.813 --> 00:20:31.334
They'll actually be able to maintain that.

00:20:31.933 --> 00:20:32.273
And it's like,

00:20:32.694 --> 00:20:34.476
that could be actually how they are.

00:20:34.736 --> 00:20:35.676
Maybe that's their ethos.

00:20:35.696 --> 00:20:37.198
That's actually their constitution.

00:20:37.218 --> 00:20:38.419
That is how they operate.

00:20:39.980 --> 00:20:41.701
And so that is the challenge.

00:20:41.821 --> 00:20:43.282
And that is why, ultimately,

00:20:43.343 --> 00:20:44.523
why we have so many steps in the

00:20:44.564 --> 00:20:46.785
process to make sure folks are the right

00:20:46.805 --> 00:20:47.006
fit.

00:20:47.881 --> 00:20:50.021
That would be an interesting trait or

00:20:50.061 --> 00:20:53.203
skill set to try to identify.

00:20:53.564 --> 00:20:55.525
I'm thinking back to experiences in my

00:20:55.585 --> 00:20:55.944
life.

00:20:56.724 --> 00:21:01.387
You always hear about marriage, obviously,

00:21:01.448 --> 00:21:02.929
divorce rates, things like that,

00:21:03.028 --> 00:21:05.329
and how as you get more comfortable with

00:21:05.349 --> 00:21:05.970
your spouse,

00:21:05.990 --> 00:21:07.510
you start to take them for granted.

00:21:07.550 --> 00:21:09.692
You start to not do the things that

00:21:09.711 --> 00:21:10.952
you did in the beginning.

00:21:12.053 --> 00:21:14.035
um but i i like i spent a

00:21:14.134 --> 00:21:16.257
lot of time in martial arts i joined

00:21:16.277 --> 00:21:18.157
the martial arts academy i think my senior

00:21:18.178 --> 00:21:20.079
year in high school i had no idea

00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:22.162
i'd never been involved in martial arts

00:21:23.092 --> 00:21:25.453
And I think that going through that

00:21:25.574 --> 00:21:27.615
system, as I went through the ranks,

00:21:27.655 --> 00:21:29.876
there was more responsibility placed on

00:21:29.916 --> 00:21:30.117
me.

00:21:30.397 --> 00:21:32.378
I felt that I was setting the tone

00:21:32.419 --> 00:21:35.020
for new students coming in to the martial

00:21:35.101 --> 00:21:35.801
arts academy.

00:21:36.261 --> 00:21:37.884
I eventually became an instructor.

00:21:37.943 --> 00:21:39.724
And as I'm thinking about it,

00:21:40.226 --> 00:21:43.387
I believe I improved.

00:21:43.827 --> 00:21:44.949
I contributed more.

00:21:45.169 --> 00:21:46.509
I added more value.

00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:49.071
I held the standard to a higher level

00:21:49.893 --> 00:21:51.653
as I rose through the ranks.

00:21:52.454 --> 00:21:54.416
And I just wonder if an employer now,

00:21:55.517 --> 00:21:57.519
say I'm going out looking for a job,

00:21:57.578 --> 00:21:59.220
if there was a way for them to

00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.521
identify the fact that I had had that

00:22:01.582 --> 00:22:05.984
experience, I understand the pitfall of,

00:22:06.586 --> 00:22:08.027
look, when you get too comfortable,

00:22:08.086 --> 00:22:10.328
you get lazy, you start cutting corners.

00:22:11.489 --> 00:22:12.609
Is there a question?

00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:14.632
Is there something in the interview

00:22:14.692 --> 00:22:16.212
process that that person,

00:22:16.232 --> 00:22:19.335
that hiring manager could tease out of me?

00:22:20.476 --> 00:22:22.997
whether i realize it or not to say

00:22:23.737 --> 00:22:26.438
i understand this this tends to be the

00:22:26.617 --> 00:22:29.259
the natural path people you know are on

00:22:29.278 --> 00:22:31.259
their best and then they decline because

00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.000
they get comfortable and they get lazy and

00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:35.741
but there are also situations where people

00:22:35.781 --> 00:22:37.761
start on their best and they just get

00:22:37.781 --> 00:22:40.583
better they actually get better as they

00:22:41.022 --> 00:22:43.203
commit more invest more build the

00:22:43.263 --> 00:22:44.744
organization with us

00:22:45.265 --> 00:22:47.729
uh it's an interesting idea i've never

00:22:47.848 --> 00:22:50.534
considered that when hiring but i i do

00:22:50.574 --> 00:22:52.817
think that there is an opportunity to find

00:22:52.877 --> 00:22:56.143
those individuals well and this is why

00:22:56.222 --> 00:22:58.125
also we do reference checks and

00:22:59.263 --> 00:23:01.125
But there's pros and cons, right?

00:23:01.164 --> 00:23:03.247
The cons of reference checks is that I'm

00:23:03.267 --> 00:23:04.787
going to cherry pick my three best

00:23:05.008 --> 00:23:06.709
relationships and three best people who I

00:23:06.788 --> 00:23:08.809
know are going to sing my praises, right?

00:23:09.329 --> 00:23:13.153
So what I do is I will call

00:23:14.133 --> 00:23:14.894
each reference.

00:23:15.233 --> 00:23:16.494
Usually it's during the business day on

00:23:16.555 --> 00:23:17.015
purpose.

00:23:17.595 --> 00:23:20.416
Usually they don't answer because it's a

00:23:20.436 --> 00:23:21.038
different number.

00:23:21.758 --> 00:23:22.999
I don't always text them ahead of time

00:23:23.038 --> 00:23:24.259
because here's the thing.

00:23:25.292 --> 00:23:26.854
also taught from sturdy.

00:23:27.054 --> 00:23:28.655
I don't want them to answer on the

00:23:28.675 --> 00:23:29.175
first call.

00:23:29.536 --> 00:23:30.436
When I call the reference,

00:23:31.337 --> 00:23:32.979
I want to leave a voicemail and I

00:23:32.999 --> 00:23:34.759
want to say, Hey, Tony,

00:23:35.941 --> 00:23:37.962
John is interviewing with us.

00:23:38.022 --> 00:23:39.523
And he said that he was,

00:23:39.903 --> 00:23:41.805
you were his manager last year or two

00:23:41.825 --> 00:23:42.165
years ago,

00:23:42.185 --> 00:23:43.926
whatever at XYZ physical therapy.

00:23:45.188 --> 00:23:47.569
He's interviewing with us to be, uh,

00:23:47.589 --> 00:23:49.570
he's a candidate for a potential job with

00:23:49.611 --> 00:23:51.251
us as a full-time W two physical

00:23:51.271 --> 00:23:51.712
therapist.

00:23:52.373 --> 00:23:53.473
And I'm calling you, uh,

00:23:55.583 --> 00:23:59.006
to ask you if you were going to

00:23:59.806 --> 00:24:05.190
interview him again, would you hire him?

00:24:05.369 --> 00:24:06.411
Right.

00:24:06.510 --> 00:24:08.192
And thank you very much.

00:24:08.291 --> 00:24:09.192
And I hang up and that's it.

00:24:09.232 --> 00:24:11.054
So now the call to action is they

00:24:11.074 --> 00:24:15.116
will only call me back if they would

00:24:15.176 --> 00:24:18.059
hire that person, that therapist again.

00:24:19.028 --> 00:24:20.088
If they don't call back,

00:24:20.548 --> 00:24:22.569
then we'd say to the candidate, well,

00:24:22.630 --> 00:24:22.809
you know,

00:24:22.869 --> 00:24:25.530
I called Tony and I left him a

00:24:25.590 --> 00:24:28.173
voicemail and I haven't heard back.

00:24:28.192 --> 00:24:29.534
So now the candidate, John,

00:24:29.554 --> 00:24:31.354
needs to nudge Tony and say, hey, Tony,

00:24:31.374 --> 00:24:32.454
like, you know,

00:24:32.494 --> 00:24:33.736
I want to I want to move forward

00:24:33.776 --> 00:24:34.576
with this practice.

00:24:34.655 --> 00:24:35.416
And, you know, can you

00:24:36.356 --> 00:24:38.357
Can you call Dave Kittle back at this

00:24:38.397 --> 00:24:38.878
phone number?

00:24:39.138 --> 00:24:41.400
He said he left you a voicemail and

00:24:42.181 --> 00:24:44.082
that'll make you just it's trying to get

00:24:44.122 --> 00:24:44.741
more signals.

00:24:44.761 --> 00:24:47.743
It's trying to get more signals around

00:24:47.784 --> 00:24:48.265
this candidate.

00:24:48.305 --> 00:24:49.724
And so if you do that with two

00:24:49.765 --> 00:24:50.365
or three people,

00:24:50.425 --> 00:24:51.967
then if when I do get them on

00:24:51.987 --> 00:24:52.866
the phone, then of course,

00:24:53.087 --> 00:24:54.188
usually they're going to say like, oh,

00:24:54.228 --> 00:24:54.428
yeah,

00:24:54.468 --> 00:24:54.627
like

00:24:56.961 --> 00:24:57.983
Of course I would hire them again or

00:24:58.003 --> 00:24:58.284
whatever.

00:24:58.744 --> 00:25:00.428
And so I say on the phone, like,

00:25:00.769 --> 00:25:01.009
listen,

00:25:01.048 --> 00:25:02.191
like when we do these reference checks,

00:25:02.211 --> 00:25:03.554
like everyone is always like, you know,

00:25:03.574 --> 00:25:05.017
it's all good and easy peasy.

00:25:05.057 --> 00:25:06.219
And like, they were great.

00:25:06.859 --> 00:25:08.502
Everyone says the candidate is great.

00:25:09.481 --> 00:25:12.324
There's got to be one thing where they

00:25:12.344 --> 00:25:13.045
can improve.

00:25:13.464 --> 00:25:17.188
What's the one thing that they can improve

00:25:17.307 --> 00:25:17.429
on?

00:25:18.568 --> 00:25:19.569
And if they go clinical,

00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:20.691
I always want to push them to, like,

00:25:20.711 --> 00:25:21.612
the behavioral, right?

00:25:21.711 --> 00:25:22.092
So, like,

00:25:22.532 --> 00:25:23.594
I leave it kind of open format,

00:25:23.634 --> 00:25:25.915
but I want them to say something like

00:25:25.915 --> 00:25:27.636
– and that's when – if they say

00:25:27.676 --> 00:25:29.117
something like your guy that you

00:25:29.157 --> 00:25:30.219
previously – or your therapist that you

00:25:30.239 --> 00:25:32.401
previously had that was, you know,

00:25:32.421 --> 00:25:35.022
kind of late or not taken seriously or

00:25:35.022 --> 00:25:36.029
–

00:25:35.063 --> 00:25:36.664
calling out a lot, whatever.

00:25:37.184 --> 00:25:38.267
I would want to try to get that

00:25:38.307 --> 00:25:40.469
pulled out of the reference check because

00:25:40.489 --> 00:25:41.509
the reference check might say like,

00:25:41.609 --> 00:25:42.951
oh yeah, they were great and they were,

00:25:43.011 --> 00:25:43.192
you know,

00:25:43.211 --> 00:25:45.094
patients love them and they were always

00:25:45.114 --> 00:25:47.758
about learning and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:25:48.077 --> 00:25:49.159
So I always want to say like,

00:25:49.179 --> 00:25:49.640
you know, listen,

00:25:51.124 --> 00:25:51.763
On these calls,

00:25:52.345 --> 00:25:53.505
it's almost like a formality.

00:25:53.545 --> 00:25:54.905
Come on, let's be honest here.

00:25:54.965 --> 00:25:55.885
I kind of make it like a joke.

00:25:55.905 --> 00:25:56.487
Listen,

00:25:56.527 --> 00:25:58.708
I get on these calls and obviously the

00:25:58.728 --> 00:26:00.127
candidate, I would do the same thing.

00:26:00.147 --> 00:26:02.950
And the candidate cherry picks the three

00:26:02.970 --> 00:26:03.490
best people,

00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:05.711
the three best relationships that they

00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:07.092
know it's gonna be a glowing reference.

00:26:07.892 --> 00:26:11.614
And so what's one or two things where

00:26:12.733 --> 00:26:16.996
you would believe that they have areas of

00:26:17.277 --> 00:26:17.997
needs improvement?

00:26:19.205 --> 00:26:20.307
It's just like very open-ended.

00:26:20.767 --> 00:26:21.928
So then they might say,

00:26:22.028 --> 00:26:22.748
maybe it's clinical.

00:26:22.807 --> 00:26:24.269
Maybe it's confidence with patients.

00:26:24.308 --> 00:26:27.230
Maybe it is showing up early or maybe

00:26:27.270 --> 00:26:29.192
it's being more efficient with the vows

00:26:29.231 --> 00:26:30.792
and visits and the visits are going over

00:26:30.833 --> 00:26:31.333
time, whatever.

00:26:31.773 --> 00:26:33.273
So whatever those things are,

00:26:33.674 --> 00:26:35.336
then you want to kind of triangulate that

00:26:36.135 --> 00:26:37.596
behavioral thing or that clinical,

00:26:37.656 --> 00:26:38.438
whatever that thing is.

00:26:38.778 --> 00:26:39.698
And then you want to try to find

00:26:39.718 --> 00:26:42.119
it with those other two reference check

00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:42.519
calls.

00:26:43.441 --> 00:26:44.721
And then, you know,

00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:46.342
if you have the time and I think

00:26:46.362 --> 00:26:47.042
it's always worth it,

00:26:48.188 --> 00:26:49.729
can you can you find someone who's

00:26:49.769 --> 00:26:51.930
adjacent who's not on the reference list

00:26:52.769 --> 00:26:54.730
but someone who worked with that person

00:26:54.790 --> 00:26:56.432
but they but the candidate didn't give you

00:26:56.451 --> 00:26:58.492
that name and you use linkedin you use

00:26:58.532 --> 00:27:01.115
facebook whatever um if you can find

00:27:01.154 --> 00:27:03.435
someone who was even a co-worker like just

00:27:03.836 --> 00:27:06.757
another staff therapist you might be able

00:27:06.777 --> 00:27:09.358
to find out from them because now that

00:27:09.398 --> 00:27:11.099
person doesn't have like the

00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.564
onus to give like a glowing review because

00:27:14.584 --> 00:27:16.526
they might just be they might they might

00:27:16.546 --> 00:27:17.567
be a little bit more honest because

00:27:17.586 --> 00:27:18.969
they're not on the reference list so that

00:27:19.189 --> 00:27:20.631
that's another thing again it takes some

00:27:20.671 --> 00:27:22.712
time and effort depends on how much time

00:27:22.732 --> 00:27:24.075
and effort you have and how serious you

00:27:24.115 --> 00:27:26.317
are about the whole interview process but

00:27:26.718 --> 00:27:28.140
to answer your question it i don't know

00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.903
if there's like a direct question um again

00:27:30.942 --> 00:27:32.023
for the for the for the same type

00:27:32.044 --> 00:27:32.285
of thing

00:27:33.226 --> 00:27:34.906
So let me ask you one more aspect

00:27:34.926 --> 00:27:37.249
to this from your perspective as the

00:27:37.288 --> 00:27:38.128
business owner.

00:27:38.710 --> 00:27:41.651
There are businesses that view themselves

00:27:41.791 --> 00:27:44.073
as a platform for growth for their

00:27:44.113 --> 00:27:44.772
clinicians.

00:27:44.813 --> 00:27:46.173
They put a ton of time in,

00:27:46.314 --> 00:27:48.076
effort in, they train their people,

00:27:48.115 --> 00:27:50.336
they bring everything they can

00:27:50.416 --> 00:27:53.278
resource-wise into helping that employee

00:27:53.979 --> 00:27:55.840
be the best possible professional they can

00:27:55.861 --> 00:27:55.961
be.

00:27:56.641 --> 00:27:59.242
There is the other aspect of the business

00:27:59.423 --> 00:28:02.424
where it's I am not hiring you to

00:28:02.605 --> 00:28:04.445
educate you and train you and teach you

00:28:04.486 --> 00:28:06.547
and improve you and do all of these

00:28:06.586 --> 00:28:07.127
things for you.

00:28:07.248 --> 00:28:09.909
I am hiring you to come with those

00:28:09.949 --> 00:28:10.309
things.

00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:13.010
I want you to be better than me

00:28:13.471 --> 00:28:15.333
so that I can put you into that

00:28:15.393 --> 00:28:17.614
role and you do the things that I

00:28:17.653 --> 00:28:18.115
can't do.

00:28:18.835 --> 00:28:19.994
Where do you fall?

00:28:20.336 --> 00:28:21.675
And I'm going to call it a spectrum.

00:28:21.715 --> 00:28:23.257
Where do you fall on that spectrum?

00:28:23.277 --> 00:28:24.676
Because I see you putting a ton of

00:28:24.717 --> 00:28:27.198
time and effort and money into training

00:28:27.238 --> 00:28:29.419
and educating and improving,

00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:33.000
as opposed to maybe being the business

00:28:33.019 --> 00:28:34.800
who's looking to hire the professional

00:28:34.820 --> 00:28:37.981
who's better, smarter, faster, you know,

00:28:38.182 --> 00:28:39.462
better looking, younger,

00:28:40.242 --> 00:28:42.723
richer than you and putting them into that

00:28:42.763 --> 00:28:43.203
position.

00:28:47.090 --> 00:28:50.333
um i'm certainly open to and and i'm

00:28:50.353 --> 00:28:52.875
becoming more and more open to maybe

00:28:52.914 --> 00:28:55.997
hiring like newer grads and and kind of

00:28:56.457 --> 00:28:59.459
investing the time and effort uh for them

00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.501
on the like clinical improvement or the

00:29:04.182 --> 00:29:06.183
navigating like our whole model like out

00:29:06.203 --> 00:29:07.805
of network and demonstrating value and

00:29:07.845 --> 00:29:09.405
trying to get you know doing pre and

00:29:09.445 --> 00:29:11.627
post tests and trying to demonstrate like

00:29:12.749 --> 00:29:14.130
clinical um

00:29:15.116 --> 00:29:15.837
Like effectiveness,

00:29:15.857 --> 00:29:18.661
like getting more patient buy in to the

00:29:18.681 --> 00:29:20.422
plan of care and getting a therapist

00:29:20.442 --> 00:29:22.825
comfortable with our premium dollar

00:29:22.845 --> 00:29:26.028
amounts and visit like the eval visit and

00:29:26.127 --> 00:29:28.450
packages and programs and multi thousand

00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:29.632
dollar programs and all that.

00:29:31.272 --> 00:29:32.914
But a lot of it is I'm looking

00:29:32.954 --> 00:29:35.457
for therapists that have a lot of that

00:29:35.497 --> 00:29:35.778
already.

00:29:37.034 --> 00:29:37.773
And then it's like,

00:29:37.913 --> 00:29:39.314
I just need to tweak them a little

00:29:39.334 --> 00:29:40.255
bit with like, Hey,

00:29:40.755 --> 00:29:42.855
like you're actually going to be where you

00:29:42.894 --> 00:29:45.076
worked usually is like in network

00:29:45.115 --> 00:29:45.556
typically,

00:29:45.855 --> 00:29:48.596
or like Medicare part B home visits where

00:29:48.635 --> 00:29:51.136
those therapists literally never had to

00:29:51.176 --> 00:29:51.836
talk about money.

00:29:52.497 --> 00:29:53.356
Money was never a thing.

00:29:53.396 --> 00:29:55.117
They never had any rejection because some

00:29:55.157 --> 00:29:56.798
patients would just stop coming and ghost

00:29:56.837 --> 00:29:57.018
them.

00:29:57.077 --> 00:29:58.538
But there were so many new patients all

00:29:58.558 --> 00:30:00.519
the time that like the therapist never

00:30:00.538 --> 00:30:01.318
really cared about it.

00:30:01.719 --> 00:30:03.460
And with us being like lower volume,

00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.539
because we're more premium,

00:30:07.166 --> 00:30:08.387
you maybe feel it a little bit more.

00:30:08.428 --> 00:30:09.627
Maybe you realize like, oh, wow,

00:30:09.667 --> 00:30:10.709
this is like a little bit more

00:30:11.169 --> 00:30:11.689
challenging.

00:30:12.749 --> 00:30:14.589
This is definitely more unique.

00:30:14.769 --> 00:30:15.789
So in general,

00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:17.570
the therapists that we've kind of hired

00:30:17.611 --> 00:30:20.531
the past year or two have already had

00:30:20.571 --> 00:30:21.251
a lot of those things.

00:30:21.271 --> 00:30:23.772
They've already had the confidence,

00:30:24.173 --> 00:30:25.273
the clinical experience,

00:30:26.794 --> 00:30:27.515
they're well-behaved,

00:30:27.535 --> 00:30:28.734
they're professional, they're prompt,

00:30:28.835 --> 00:30:29.734
all that type of stuff.

00:30:32.135 --> 00:30:33.517
But I'm open to

00:30:34.719 --> 00:30:37.599
maybe having more of my time and effort

00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:39.940
in filling up their cup,

00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:41.381
like kind of coaching them more,

00:30:41.921 --> 00:30:43.560
mentoring them more if they're younger,

00:30:44.101 --> 00:30:45.961
if they're a little more like newer in

00:30:46.001 --> 00:30:47.922
the field and they,

00:30:49.201 --> 00:30:51.042
but the thing is they have to have,

00:30:51.502 --> 00:30:53.824
typically it helps in this situation.

00:30:54.243 --> 00:30:55.564
Let's say someone's like three years out

00:30:55.584 --> 00:30:55.884
of school.

00:30:56.423 --> 00:30:57.903
So I haven't really hired someone that was

00:30:57.964 --> 00:30:59.045
just three years out of school,

00:31:00.724 --> 00:31:01.164
maybe ever.

00:31:01.845 --> 00:31:03.705
And so that I can recall.

00:31:04.675 --> 00:31:05.718
If someone's three years out of school,

00:31:05.958 --> 00:31:09.724
I need them though to have been frustrated

00:31:10.386 --> 00:31:12.951
with like an in-network model where they

00:31:12.990 --> 00:31:14.815
were treating fifteen to twenty five or

00:31:14.875 --> 00:31:16.237
thirty or whatever patients a day.

00:31:18.741 --> 00:31:20.343
I need them to have experienced that

00:31:20.423 --> 00:31:22.124
either on a rotation or at their first

00:31:22.144 --> 00:31:22.463
job.

00:31:22.923 --> 00:31:24.684
I need to hear from them that they

00:31:24.704 --> 00:31:27.365
don't like that, that they want more time,

00:31:27.766 --> 00:31:30.127
they want less notes, less patience,

00:31:30.188 --> 00:31:30.548
all that.

00:31:31.087 --> 00:31:32.648
So then it's really easy.

00:31:32.669 --> 00:31:33.169
It's like, well,

00:31:33.528 --> 00:31:34.869
here's what our model looks like.

00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:37.131
And there's a safety net.

00:31:39.053 --> 00:31:41.957
there's a base salary and there's weekly

00:31:42.017 --> 00:31:43.298
performance pay and oh,

00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.603
and here's some pay stubs and here's some

00:31:45.643 --> 00:31:47.285
figures from some of our therapists and

00:31:47.325 --> 00:31:48.847
here's what they're making, you know,

00:31:48.928 --> 00:31:50.150
four, five, six,

00:31:50.190 --> 00:31:52.653
seven thousand dollars every two weeks.

00:31:54.239 --> 00:31:55.740
So it's pretty even pre-tax, you know,

00:31:55.780 --> 00:31:58.384
or after taxes, pretty good, really good.

00:31:59.444 --> 00:32:01.847
And so I'm open to it.

00:32:02.387 --> 00:32:03.670
But generally who we hire,

00:32:03.750 --> 00:32:04.990
it's like they're already bringing that to

00:32:05.010 --> 00:32:06.613
the table and they're kind of plugging

00:32:06.633 --> 00:32:08.474
that into our system because they want to

00:32:08.555 --> 00:32:10.416
unplug from the other systems like the

00:32:10.457 --> 00:32:11.898
network or all that.

00:32:13.156 --> 00:32:17.318
yeah makes sense i i think we historically

00:32:17.578 --> 00:32:20.140
had always been on the new grad side

00:32:20.180 --> 00:32:22.560
like right out of school i don't want

00:32:22.580 --> 00:32:24.902
you to have any clinical experience i

00:32:24.942 --> 00:32:26.663
don't have any baggage i don't want you

00:32:26.682 --> 00:32:29.844
to have any of that um and i

00:32:29.884 --> 00:32:31.845
was looking for people more

00:32:32.845 --> 00:32:35.385
And I've said this candidly to the person

00:32:35.425 --> 00:32:35.945
I'm hiring.

00:32:35.965 --> 00:32:36.625
I'm like, look,

00:32:37.207 --> 00:32:38.906
you've got the personality that I'm

00:32:38.926 --> 00:32:39.607
looking for.

00:32:40.107 --> 00:32:41.969
You've got the core values that I'm

00:32:42.009 --> 00:32:42.729
looking for.

00:32:43.189 --> 00:32:45.130
You don't have the experience and the

00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:45.990
clinical skill.

00:32:46.910 --> 00:32:49.131
I would rather get you on the team

00:32:49.171 --> 00:32:50.291
for two years

00:32:51.152 --> 00:32:54.717
um help you develop the clinical skill

00:32:54.737 --> 00:32:58.121
because that stuff's easy take the benefit

00:32:58.300 --> 00:33:01.125
of your personality and your core values

00:33:01.905 --> 00:33:04.107
and then move on like then you go

00:33:04.169 --> 00:33:05.750
then you go to the next level you

00:33:05.790 --> 00:33:07.532
go to the bigger the newer the different

00:33:07.573 --> 00:33:08.394
organization

00:33:09.575 --> 00:33:12.236
I always kind of viewed myself as a

00:33:12.316 --> 00:33:13.057
residency,

00:33:13.176 --> 00:33:15.178
even though we weren't a formal residency.

00:33:15.577 --> 00:33:17.459
And I was totally fine with that because

00:33:17.538 --> 00:33:18.578
I enjoyed teaching.

00:33:18.739 --> 00:33:20.700
I enjoyed the engagement, the interaction.

00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:21.621
It made me better.

00:33:21.661 --> 00:33:23.521
It kept me kind of on my toes

00:33:23.582 --> 00:33:25.762
and like them asking questions.

00:33:27.163 --> 00:33:29.364
But I think what happened for us was

00:33:29.845 --> 00:33:31.325
there is a gradual shift.

00:33:31.365 --> 00:33:32.405
And I don't know if this is a

00:33:32.465 --> 00:33:34.586
demographic, a generational thing.

00:33:36.188 --> 00:33:38.809
The candidates that we were interviewing

00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:39.789
and talking to,

00:33:40.191 --> 00:33:41.612
they didn't think they needed to learn

00:33:41.672 --> 00:33:42.112
anything.

00:33:42.972 --> 00:33:44.973
And so I was getting to the point

00:33:45.013 --> 00:33:46.095
where I was like, well,

00:33:46.134 --> 00:33:48.237
I can't force you to want to learn

00:33:48.277 --> 00:33:49.917
the stuff that I think is important.

00:33:50.718 --> 00:33:52.500
And if you think you already know

00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:53.220
everything,

00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:55.942
you're beyond what I can offer.

00:33:56.502 --> 00:33:57.963
So just go work somewhere else.

00:33:58.523 --> 00:34:00.025
You know, and I think for us,

00:34:00.065 --> 00:34:01.926
because we always say like, no,

00:34:01.967 --> 00:34:02.907
the business you're in,

00:34:03.587 --> 00:34:05.750
the delivery of service was not the

00:34:05.789 --> 00:34:07.750
business we were in when we were growing.

00:34:08.371 --> 00:34:10.514
We were in the business of taking young,

00:34:10.753 --> 00:34:12.695
eager clinicians who wanted to learn and

00:34:12.755 --> 00:34:15.878
gain experience while getting paid and

00:34:16.097 --> 00:34:17.938
prepare them for their next big

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.780
opportunity.

00:34:19.521 --> 00:34:22.422
And when that dried up for us and

00:34:22.862 --> 00:34:25.045
I felt like when I talked to a

00:34:25.065 --> 00:34:25.606
therapist,

00:34:26.487 --> 00:34:28.548
about an intervention and they were just

00:34:28.568 --> 00:34:30.009
blowing me off because they felt like they

00:34:30.028 --> 00:34:30.530
already knew it.

00:34:30.550 --> 00:34:31.809
I was like, that's it.

00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:32.449
I'm done.

00:34:33.150 --> 00:34:34.731
There's nothing of value that I could

00:34:34.871 --> 00:34:35.590
offer here.

00:34:36.052 --> 00:34:37.472
And that's when we basically stopped

00:34:37.512 --> 00:34:37.931
hiring.

00:34:38.351 --> 00:34:40.652
That's when we basically said that

00:34:40.693 --> 00:34:44.094
opportunity is no longer available to us.

00:34:44.835 --> 00:34:47.016
Let's just cash in on what we've got,

00:34:47.235 --> 00:34:49.956
the delivery of service and not even

00:34:49.996 --> 00:34:52.378
bother trying to hire new clinicians.

00:34:53.659 --> 00:34:55.920
um and that fundamentally you know was the

00:34:55.981 --> 00:34:57.882
death of that business even though

00:34:57.943 --> 00:35:00.865
technically the llc and the name total

00:35:00.905 --> 00:35:04.610
therapy persisted we never really found an

00:35:04.670 --> 00:35:07.592
opportunity to grow the business anymore

00:35:09.065 --> 00:35:09.445
Interesting.

00:35:09.666 --> 00:35:10.445
Let me ask you.

00:35:11.047 --> 00:35:12.268
So you said, Jeremy,

00:35:12.528 --> 00:35:14.490
we have their PTA has been with you

00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:15.612
for fifteen years.

00:35:16.331 --> 00:35:19.114
So the way you were kind of approaching

00:35:19.195 --> 00:35:20.295
any of the hiring,

00:35:21.016 --> 00:35:23.298
even the therapist and the PTAs and other

00:35:23.338 --> 00:35:26.782
folks that have come and gone.

00:35:26.802 --> 00:35:27.503
Do you recall?

00:35:27.704 --> 00:35:28.704
I know it's fifteen years ago,

00:35:28.724 --> 00:35:29.706
a long time ago.

00:35:30.478 --> 00:35:32.559
Do you recall when you interviewed Jeremy,

00:35:32.619 --> 00:35:35.559
was there anything in the first several

00:35:35.659 --> 00:35:38.019
interactions in whatever your interview

00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:39.059
process was at the time?

00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:40.739
If you can think back,

00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:42.440
which fifteen years is a very long time,

00:35:43.161 --> 00:35:45.681
was there any signal or anything with like

00:35:45.722 --> 00:35:49.402
behavior or confidence or anything that

00:35:49.442 --> 00:35:51.503
stuck out then where you look back now

00:35:51.523 --> 00:35:52.603
and you're like, oh, yeah, like,

00:35:52.643 --> 00:35:53.003
of course,

00:35:53.043 --> 00:35:56.623
that's why he they that's why he stayed

00:35:56.684 --> 00:35:59.545
here or that's why he patients love him.

00:36:01.286 --> 00:36:04.509
Is there anything there that maybe you can

00:36:04.628 --> 00:36:07.532
look at and say that's a potential signal

00:36:07.891 --> 00:36:10.014
for maybe other practice owners to try to

00:36:10.094 --> 00:36:10.775
notice or catch?

00:36:11.771 --> 00:36:13.673
Yeah, we basically had three people,

00:36:13.753 --> 00:36:16.056
two PTs and Jeremy at that time.

00:36:16.516 --> 00:36:18.958
Jeremy was a student doing his clinical

00:36:18.998 --> 00:36:19.498
rotation.

00:36:19.518 --> 00:36:21.440
Now he's a physical therapist assistant in

00:36:21.460 --> 00:36:22.920
case that detail got missed.

00:36:24.202 --> 00:36:26.224
But he did his clinical rotation with us.

00:36:26.264 --> 00:36:28.346
So obviously that gives us a huge

00:36:28.385 --> 00:36:32.168
advantage to see over several weeks what

00:36:32.208 --> 00:36:33.829
his personality is, culture,

00:36:33.911 --> 00:36:34.630
what he's like.

00:36:35.152 --> 00:36:37.112
This is a second career opportunity.

00:36:37.172 --> 00:36:38.755
He came out of like...

00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.621
I don't know what they call it.

00:36:40.661 --> 00:36:42.322
I'm going to say youth corrections,

00:36:42.342 --> 00:36:42.681
you know,

00:36:43.181 --> 00:36:45.481
correctional institutes for kids,

00:36:45.882 --> 00:36:48.023
troubled teens, that kind of stuff.

00:36:49.762 --> 00:36:51.842
So already kind of knowing the

00:36:51.882 --> 00:36:53.304
environments that he had been in,

00:36:53.963 --> 00:36:56.324
seeing how much he enjoyed what he's doing

00:36:56.403 --> 00:36:58.545
now in outpatient therapy.

00:36:58.965 --> 00:37:00.505
He had an athletic background,

00:37:00.864 --> 00:37:03.085
played football like in college,

00:37:03.146 --> 00:37:04.465
did other things like that.

00:37:05.206 --> 00:37:07.186
And just the general,

00:37:07.648 --> 00:37:09.469
the other two therapists,

00:37:09.489 --> 00:37:12.050
they were PTs who were also kind of

00:37:12.070 --> 00:37:13.572
new hires at that time.

00:37:14.411 --> 00:37:15.512
You could just see, you know,

00:37:15.932 --> 00:37:17.974
I never had a patient tell me they

00:37:18.014 --> 00:37:19.695
felt he was arrogant.

00:37:20.076 --> 00:37:22.356
Whereas with the other two DPTs,

00:37:22.978 --> 00:37:24.159
multiple patients were like,

00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:25.398
he's just so arrogant.

00:37:25.438 --> 00:37:26.900
They just think they know everything,

00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:27.581
you know, like.

00:37:28.121 --> 00:37:31.184
They came off with this era of like,

00:37:31.304 --> 00:37:31.483
well,

00:37:31.704 --> 00:37:34.047
I'm doctor so-and-so and this is what

00:37:34.067 --> 00:37:34.706
you're going to do.

00:37:34.766 --> 00:37:35.467
And this, you know,

00:37:35.648 --> 00:37:37.630
my way or the highway kind of thing.

00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:39.010
And they were good.

00:37:39.070 --> 00:37:40.393
They were good therapists.

00:37:40.452 --> 00:37:41.693
And they worked for me for a very

00:37:41.733 --> 00:37:42.373
long time.

00:37:42.655 --> 00:37:44.335
And we had great outcomes with them.

00:37:45.677 --> 00:37:47.579
I fundamentally would never do the

00:37:47.619 --> 00:37:48.639
treatment they do.

00:37:49.501 --> 00:37:51.523
They would never do the treatment I do.

00:37:52.836 --> 00:37:54.518
I think both of us had a level,

00:37:54.659 --> 00:37:57.501
those DPTs and me, had a level of,

00:37:57.981 --> 00:38:00.342
I respect your independence and autonomy

00:38:00.402 --> 00:38:01.324
as a professional,

00:38:02.847 --> 00:38:04.248
But I don't think what you're doing

00:38:04.327 --> 00:38:06.230
actually does what you think it does.

00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:08.030
And I think they felt the same way

00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:08.612
about me.

00:38:08.751 --> 00:38:11.713
You know, that guy, he's too lazy.

00:38:11.793 --> 00:38:14.016
He's too like he doesn't care about

00:38:14.096 --> 00:38:14.476
anything.

00:38:14.516 --> 00:38:15.956
He doesn't think anything matters.

00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:19.739
But there was a mutual level of respect

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:20.181
there.

00:38:21.581 --> 00:38:22.041
And so.

00:38:23.422 --> 00:38:25.304
i think the difference here is you know

00:38:25.445 --> 00:38:27.206
jeremy and i can look at the same

00:38:27.246 --> 00:38:29.007
condition and maybe it's because we've

00:38:29.047 --> 00:38:31.128
worked together for so long and we've been

00:38:31.148 --> 00:38:33.510
like yeah like this makes sense these are

00:38:33.530 --> 00:38:34.811
the things we want to do we kind

00:38:34.851 --> 00:38:37.652
of share the the culture of there is

00:38:37.713 --> 00:38:40.275
no hard and fast rule about it nobody

00:38:40.315 --> 00:38:41.916
knows what's going to work we'll try some

00:38:41.956 --> 00:38:43.777
things we'll work out a little bit we'll

00:38:43.797 --> 00:38:46.318
make the person feel good and functionally

00:38:46.358 --> 00:38:47.159
they're going to improve

00:38:48.231 --> 00:38:50.552
Whereas other clinicians other therapists

00:38:50.572 --> 00:38:51.672
are like no you got to do this

00:38:51.711 --> 00:38:53.913
special test and if this works this way

00:38:53.932 --> 00:38:54.873
and you got to do this and you

00:38:54.893 --> 00:38:56.914
got to do that and you know very

00:38:56.954 --> 00:39:00.135
very regimented and what they believe is

00:39:00.235 --> 00:39:03.715
evidence-based where I would say there is

00:39:03.795 --> 00:39:05.436
no evidence there's no evidence to support

00:39:05.516 --> 00:39:07.137
anything that we do we we can find

00:39:07.177 --> 00:39:09.398
evidence that sham is just as effective as

00:39:09.458 --> 00:39:11.878
any of the interventions you know so

00:39:13.358 --> 00:39:14.820
I think that's why it's worked out.

00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:17.420
And we're basically the same age.

00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.240
We come from similar backgrounds.

00:39:19.300 --> 00:39:22.302
We have very similar values.

00:39:22.362 --> 00:39:24.382
He's basically like a brother that I get

00:39:24.402 --> 00:39:25.943
along with to that level.

00:39:26.202 --> 00:39:28.284
I trust him implicitly with everything.

00:39:28.304 --> 00:39:32.545
And I don't want to mess with that

00:39:32.565 --> 00:39:32.885
anymore.

00:39:33.606 --> 00:39:35.047
So you just hit on something values,

00:39:35.088 --> 00:39:35.228
right?

00:39:35.248 --> 00:39:36.847
That's another thing that I probably have

00:39:36.927 --> 00:39:38.449
overlooked in, or I'm not over,

00:39:38.748 --> 00:39:40.849
I haven't conveyed on these shows about

00:39:41.309 --> 00:39:42.170
the interview process.

00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:45.811
So when we have the zoom interview,

00:39:46.731 --> 00:39:48.012
I'm asking questions that are,

00:39:48.291 --> 00:39:50.152
that I can't say to them, like, Hey,

00:39:50.393 --> 00:39:52.594
our, one of our core values is like,

00:39:52.673 --> 00:39:54.313
respect is like a two way street.

00:39:54.414 --> 00:39:55.355
I'm not going to say like,

00:39:55.394 --> 00:39:57.335
tell me about a time when you,

00:39:57.474 --> 00:40:00.235
you know, you like, tell me like,

00:40:00.275 --> 00:40:01.036
what does that mean to you?

00:40:02.717 --> 00:40:03.458
I have to pull out,

00:40:03.538 --> 00:40:04.097
I want to say,

00:40:04.117 --> 00:40:05.557
tell me about a time when a patient

00:40:05.597 --> 00:40:06.398
disrespected you.

00:40:07.219 --> 00:40:08.898
What happened and what did you do about

00:40:08.938 --> 00:40:09.039
it?

00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.800
Or tell me about a time when a

00:40:11.860 --> 00:40:14.481
coworker disrespected you or maybe a

00:40:14.521 --> 00:40:17.021
referring physician or a boss or manager

00:40:17.101 --> 00:40:19.543
or a clinical instructor, CI, whatever.

00:40:20.603 --> 00:40:21.884
So then whatever they tell me,

00:40:22.463 --> 00:40:24.804
the experience that they had would then

00:40:24.864 --> 00:40:26.405
relate to our core values.

00:40:26.585 --> 00:40:28.465
And in the Zoom interview,

00:40:29.505 --> 00:40:30.626
a lot of the questions are,

00:40:31.748 --> 00:40:33.510
Because they don't necessarily know.

00:40:34.052 --> 00:40:36.014
They probably don't know yet what our core

00:40:36.034 --> 00:40:36.576
values are.

00:40:36.876 --> 00:40:38.878
So I want to ask stories and life

00:40:38.898 --> 00:40:40.581
situations on how they navigated the

00:40:40.621 --> 00:40:41.041
world,

00:40:41.782 --> 00:40:43.284
what types of challenges they might have

00:40:43.324 --> 00:40:43.666
had.

00:40:44.367 --> 00:40:47.630
And their responses will then tell us a

00:40:47.731 --> 00:40:48.331
lot of

00:40:49.293 --> 00:40:52.634
are are their core values close enough to

00:40:52.713 --> 00:40:54.954
our core values right and so that that

00:40:54.994 --> 00:40:56.815
what you're describing of like turns out

00:40:56.875 --> 00:40:58.914
jeremy like has kind of like similar

00:40:58.994 --> 00:41:02.016
values that you have and it's like then

00:41:02.275 --> 00:41:04.456
it's like no surprise that he stayed with

00:41:04.476 --> 00:41:06.697
you for so long right um because it's

00:41:06.757 --> 00:41:08.356
not necessarily just about communication

00:41:08.456 --> 00:41:09.856
or how much he's making or whatever but

00:41:09.876 --> 00:41:11.898
like he he just likes your vibe and

00:41:12.077 --> 00:41:13.518
you guys are like closer to the same

00:41:13.557 --> 00:41:13.838
page

00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:15.710
And even ambitions.

00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.791
It's one of those deals where, you know,

00:41:19.112 --> 00:41:20.592
you've known me long enough,

00:41:20.831 --> 00:41:22.932
like there are things I could do to

00:41:22.972 --> 00:41:23.773
make more money,

00:41:24.152 --> 00:41:25.913
but I'm in a comfortable place right now.

00:41:26.112 --> 00:41:28.574
I prioritize time with family over more

00:41:28.614 --> 00:41:28.914
money.

00:41:29.014 --> 00:41:32.695
I prioritize ease of life over more money.

00:41:34.014 --> 00:41:36.074
And I think we share that as well.

00:41:36.536 --> 00:41:38.235
It's really hard to have somebody who's

00:41:38.275 --> 00:41:38.476
like,

00:41:38.795 --> 00:41:41.275
I want three million dollars a year and

00:41:41.315 --> 00:41:42.817
I'm going to do everything in my power

00:41:42.836 --> 00:41:43.476
to make it.

00:41:44.016 --> 00:41:46.480
And then put that person alongside

00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:47.199
somebody who's like,

00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.181
I'm good with sixty thousand.

00:41:49.222 --> 00:41:49.862
I'm comfortable.

00:41:50.423 --> 00:41:50.643
You know,

00:41:50.664 --> 00:41:52.985
like those two personalities clash because

00:41:53.025 --> 00:41:55.748
there's different ambitions within that.

00:41:56.670 --> 00:41:58.210
I think he and I are both very

00:41:58.251 --> 00:42:00.554
comfortable with a relatively modest life

00:42:01.394 --> 00:42:04.398
and we prioritize family and other things.

00:42:05.588 --> 00:42:06.170
Which again,

00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:08.831
when I bring somebody in who disrupts that

00:42:08.871 --> 00:42:09.711
relationship,

00:42:10.271 --> 00:42:13.835
it's not even just that I want to

00:42:13.875 --> 00:42:15.956
grow or not grow or whatever the business

00:42:16.097 --> 00:42:16.277
is.

00:42:17.077 --> 00:42:19.278
I know that if I bring another personality

00:42:19.318 --> 00:42:20.019
into the mix,

00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:21.621
there is a chance that it disrupts

00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.382
everything, changes everything.

00:42:24.422 --> 00:42:26.965
And things are very comfortable right now.

00:42:27.764 --> 00:42:28.184
So, like,

00:42:28.244 --> 00:42:30.385
those are business decisions that I think

00:42:30.445 --> 00:42:33.547
we make as business owners that somebody

00:42:33.567 --> 00:42:35.387
from the outside looking in might not

00:42:35.427 --> 00:42:35.987
consider.

00:42:37.628 --> 00:42:38.889
I know we're kind of running low on

00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:39.248
time.

00:42:40.009 --> 00:42:41.269
Let's say ten more minutes.

00:42:41.670 --> 00:42:43.610
You shared something with me that I think

00:42:43.650 --> 00:42:44.431
is interesting.

00:42:44.490 --> 00:42:46.291
Do you want to talk about that, LinkedIn?

00:42:47.512 --> 00:42:48.672
Or do you have something else?

00:42:49.251 --> 00:42:49.992
I knew you would love it.

00:42:50.132 --> 00:42:50.893
I knew you would like this.

00:42:50.932 --> 00:42:51.733
Yeah.

00:42:53.934 --> 00:42:54.434
Yeah, so...

00:42:55.373 --> 00:42:56.335
I'm going to try to bring it up

00:42:56.375 --> 00:42:57.034
while you're talking.

00:42:57.644 --> 00:42:59.126
Yeah, I'm gonna pull it up as well.

00:42:59.146 --> 00:43:00.748
So this was from LinkedIn.

00:43:02.068 --> 00:43:05.030
This was a surgeon who posted,

00:43:05.251 --> 00:43:08.054
I prescribe less formal physical therapy

00:43:08.094 --> 00:43:09.094
than I did ten years ago.

00:43:10.103 --> 00:43:12.123
and my patients move better.

00:43:14.065 --> 00:43:15.286
I'm just opening up the post now.

00:43:15.445 --> 00:43:18.208
So this is a hip and knee reconstruction

00:43:18.248 --> 00:43:18.807
specialist.

00:43:18.847 --> 00:43:20.289
So right up Tony's alley.

00:43:20.688 --> 00:43:21.710
This is a lot of stuff that we've

00:43:21.730 --> 00:43:23.170
already kind of talked about.

00:43:23.190 --> 00:43:23.331
I mean,

00:43:23.871 --> 00:43:25.371
I know for sure Tony has posted about

00:43:25.411 --> 00:43:25.512
it,

00:43:26.791 --> 00:43:29.634
but there was a big long post talking

00:43:29.673 --> 00:43:32.675
about an article, a perspective,

00:43:33.275 --> 00:43:35.197
randomized study at a Brown University

00:43:35.237 --> 00:43:36.818
published in the Journal of Orthopedics

00:43:36.918 --> 00:43:37.679
talking about

00:43:38.398 --> 00:43:39.880
knee replacements and then assess them at

00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:40.561
two weeks.

00:43:41.081 --> 00:43:42.302
Then again, at six weeks,

00:43:42.762 --> 00:43:44.824
basically found no significant difference.

00:43:45.065 --> 00:43:46.144
The sample size,

00:43:46.164 --> 00:43:47.306
two hundred forty eight patients were

00:43:47.326 --> 00:43:47.967
randomized.

00:43:48.907 --> 00:43:51.969
And so that this physician was in this

00:43:52.050 --> 00:43:53.572
orthopedic surgeon physician was saying

00:43:53.612 --> 00:43:53.731
that

00:43:55.179 --> 00:43:56.760
he's not saying therapy doesn't work.

00:43:56.820 --> 00:43:59.563
He's saying that the routine prescription

00:43:59.782 --> 00:44:02.525
is not the therapy that the stratification

00:44:02.605 --> 00:44:02.744
is.

00:44:02.764 --> 00:44:03.626
That's a lot of little,

00:44:03.786 --> 00:44:06.467
little higher level, but nonetheless,

00:44:06.588 --> 00:44:09.590
we we've talked about this before where I

00:44:09.690 --> 00:44:10.309
think though,

00:44:10.550 --> 00:44:12.952
I think this is my take and you

00:44:12.972 --> 00:44:13.733
can push back on it.

00:44:14.313 --> 00:44:16.614
I think the change of specifically hip

00:44:16.655 --> 00:44:17.235
replacement,

00:44:17.275 --> 00:44:19.056
but maybe knee replacement as well.

00:44:19.096 --> 00:44:21.458
Definitely hip replacement has been

00:44:21.538 --> 00:44:23.760
referred less to physical therapy over the

00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:24.059
last,

00:44:25.230 --> 00:44:26.512
I don't know, last five or ten years,

00:44:26.552 --> 00:44:27.052
maybe longer,

00:44:27.092 --> 00:44:31.099
but definitely a progression of less and

00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:33.023
less patients who get a hip replacement

00:44:33.704 --> 00:44:35.248
get outpatient physical therapy.

00:44:35.288 --> 00:44:36.088
Maybe they get some...

00:44:37.250 --> 00:44:39.130
home physical therapy for like just

00:44:39.230 --> 00:44:40.710
assessing walking or gait training,

00:44:40.751 --> 00:44:42.650
but not really like the manual therapy or,

00:44:42.931 --> 00:44:44.552
um, maybe they don't need it.

00:44:44.652 --> 00:44:46.211
I know Tony's going to have some, some,

00:44:46.231 --> 00:44:49.092
uh, some thoughts there, but, um,

00:44:49.213 --> 00:44:50.913
I think a lot of this was driven

00:44:50.952 --> 00:44:52.032
by the bundled payments.

00:44:52.152 --> 00:44:53.614
In my opinion, I could be wrong,

00:44:53.653 --> 00:44:54.494
but if,

00:44:55.054 --> 00:44:57.353
if a physician or health system is going

00:44:57.373 --> 00:44:59.215
to get a flat rate for the entire

00:44:59.235 --> 00:44:59.594
month,

00:44:59.934 --> 00:45:03.878
The entire situation, meaning surgery,

00:45:03.978 --> 00:45:05.099
post-op visits,

00:45:05.338 --> 00:45:07.820
and including the downstream outpatient

00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:08.782
physical therapy visits.

00:45:08.842 --> 00:45:10.422
And then once physicians heard that,

00:45:10.862 --> 00:45:12.164
or hospital systems maybe,

00:45:13.164 --> 00:45:15.567
or physician groups, they were like, well,

00:45:15.726 --> 00:45:16.907
why would we refer out?

00:45:17.088 --> 00:45:18.628
And I'm not sure if that is the

00:45:18.648 --> 00:45:18.849
case.

00:45:18.889 --> 00:45:19.530
I could be wrong.

00:45:21.050 --> 00:45:21.851
Also, like...

00:45:22.532 --> 00:45:25.112
for uh rotator cuff repair maybe like

00:45:25.213 --> 00:45:26.934
maybe they still do need a lot more

00:45:26.954 --> 00:45:28.554
of the outpatient therapy that tony would

00:45:28.574 --> 00:45:29.534
do with them and that we would do

00:45:29.554 --> 00:45:32.836
with them um and so they still will

00:45:33.117 --> 00:45:35.398
prescribe and refer out for that and

00:45:35.418 --> 00:45:36.878
knowing that it cuts into their potential

00:45:36.898 --> 00:45:39.280
bundle payments um anyway that's a lot

00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:40.760
there but i'll kick it back to tony

00:45:40.780 --> 00:45:46.204
yeah i think you know medicare is growing

00:45:46.244 --> 00:45:48.724
or expanding the program where they

00:45:48.764 --> 00:45:50.706
basically say um

00:45:51.847 --> 00:45:56.010
we're going to expect this much money be

00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:58.172
spent on a total knee replacement.

00:45:59.173 --> 00:46:01.295
If the hospital's in charge,

00:46:01.315 --> 00:46:03.376
the hospital is local leadership,

00:46:04.177 --> 00:46:08.240
the hospital makes the decisions on who's

00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:10.003
gonna see the patient for outpatient

00:46:10.023 --> 00:46:10.583
therapy,

00:46:10.684 --> 00:46:11.985
what other conditions are gonna be

00:46:12.025 --> 00:46:12.545
treated.

00:46:13.126 --> 00:46:16.007
But if this hospital,

00:46:17.121 --> 00:46:18.922
ends up spending more and this hospital

00:46:19.003 --> 00:46:20.983
ends up spending less and we've determined

00:46:21.003 --> 00:46:23.864
the median price is this,

00:46:24.545 --> 00:46:26.826
the hospital spends more is going to have

00:46:26.846 --> 00:46:28.045
to pay back some of that money.

00:46:28.106 --> 00:46:29.726
The hospital who spends less is going to

00:46:29.746 --> 00:46:30.507
get more of that money.

00:46:31.027 --> 00:46:31.286
Like,

00:46:31.987 --> 00:46:34.309
if you go two or three layers upstream

00:46:34.349 --> 00:46:34.648
though,

00:46:35.608 --> 00:46:38.110
We have to acknowledge the money is

00:46:38.150 --> 00:46:40.150
running out or already ran out.

00:46:40.231 --> 00:46:41.791
Like we're borrowing money to pay for

00:46:41.851 --> 00:46:42.652
health care costs.

00:46:42.672 --> 00:46:42.911
You know,

00:46:42.952 --> 00:46:44.632
we're borrowing money for all of these

00:46:44.672 --> 00:46:45.072
things.

00:46:45.592 --> 00:46:47.773
So Medicare itself,

00:46:48.193 --> 00:46:50.333
there is there's less money going in than

00:46:50.353 --> 00:46:51.355
there is going out.

00:46:52.034 --> 00:46:53.755
Medicare is never going to look at

00:46:53.876 --> 00:46:55.635
increasing payments for anyone.

00:46:56.896 --> 00:46:58.797
And the same is true for all other

00:46:58.836 --> 00:46:59.858
third party payers.

00:47:00.916 --> 00:47:04.661
so how do we as one tiny sliver

00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:08.186
of the healthcare business the industry

00:47:08.967 --> 00:47:11.210
how do we show like look we're actually

00:47:11.230 --> 00:47:14.655
doing things to spend less to improve

00:47:14.815 --> 00:47:16.998
outcomes to make this more affordable

00:47:17.838 --> 00:47:20.460
this is where i think the research like

00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:22.380
i said earlier there's no good research

00:47:22.561 --> 00:47:24.882
anywhere saying physical therapy is the

00:47:24.902 --> 00:47:27.882
best thing right at best it's no worse

00:47:27.902 --> 00:47:31.384
than sham no worse than placebo um but

00:47:31.443 --> 00:47:33.264
now there's there's research that says

00:47:33.324 --> 00:47:35.485
look people who do a home exercise program

00:47:35.666 --> 00:47:39.146
at scale do just as as good as

00:47:39.226 --> 00:47:40.927
people who don't there are going to be

00:47:40.967 --> 00:47:41.407
cases

00:47:42.188 --> 00:47:44.269
i get cases in here where the person

00:47:44.429 --> 00:47:48.634
is so freaked out like they're so anxious

00:47:48.673 --> 00:47:50.695
they're so scared they're they are

00:47:50.775 --> 00:47:54.360
legitimately bleeding uh and you know they

00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:56.141
need that dressing change they need the

00:47:56.161 --> 00:47:58.103
dressing looked at maybe they have a dbt

00:47:58.123 --> 00:48:00.184
there there is really something going on

00:48:00.865 --> 00:48:02.748
but that's a very small percentage of the

00:48:02.807 --> 00:48:03.809
total population

00:48:04.833 --> 00:48:07.215
and when i share on my facebook feed

00:48:07.695 --> 00:48:09.657
how many physical therapy sessions did you

00:48:09.697 --> 00:48:12.681
do i get people that are doing years

00:48:12.842 --> 00:48:15.083
of physical therapy two and three times a

00:48:15.123 --> 00:48:18.047
week after a typical knee replacement you

00:48:18.086 --> 00:48:21.891
know so like these abuses and i'm calling

00:48:21.911 --> 00:48:25.094
them for what they are of what insurance

00:48:25.134 --> 00:48:25.914
is supposed to be

00:48:26.882 --> 00:48:28.182
I think it's getting called out.

00:48:28.503 --> 00:48:29.724
There's going to be a reckoning.

00:48:30.583 --> 00:48:32.864
And so this is where I think we

00:48:32.905 --> 00:48:34.025
have a responsibility.

00:48:34.865 --> 00:48:36.726
Let's look at what AI is good at

00:48:36.786 --> 00:48:37.286
right now.

00:48:38.847 --> 00:48:40.568
If a home exercise program,

00:48:40.887 --> 00:48:43.088
unsupervised home exercise program has

00:48:43.128 --> 00:48:44.889
been shown to be just as effective as

00:48:45.009 --> 00:48:46.210
one-on-one physical therapy,

00:48:47.431 --> 00:48:49.472
AI is probably going to be better than

00:48:49.552 --> 00:48:50.514
that.

00:48:50.833 --> 00:48:53.856
So let's roll out some of these ideas,

00:48:53.876 --> 00:48:55.056
some of these innovations.

00:48:55.737 --> 00:48:57.797
And I still get therapists who are like,

00:48:57.898 --> 00:48:59.679
I can't believe you want AI to take

00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:00.298
our jobs.

00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:02.820
I want AI to do the stuff AI

00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:04.121
is better than me at doing.

00:49:04.161 --> 00:49:05.961
There's a lot of things AI is better

00:49:05.981 --> 00:49:06.842
than me at doing.

00:49:07.063 --> 00:49:09.403
A calculator is better at me at doing

00:49:09.443 --> 00:49:10.324
complex math.

00:49:10.465 --> 00:49:12.045
I'm going to let the calculator do it.

00:49:13.081 --> 00:49:15.364
Um, but this, I think,

00:49:15.905 --> 00:49:18.047
I think this is going to impact outpatient

00:49:18.126 --> 00:49:21.710
ortho more than any other aspect of our

00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:22.389
profession.

00:49:22.891 --> 00:49:24.692
And I think it should, I think, eighty,

00:49:24.751 --> 00:49:26.574
ninety percent of what outpatient ortho

00:49:26.634 --> 00:49:29.155
does should be wiped out tomorrow.

00:49:29.896 --> 00:49:31.998
It is not something that insurance should

00:49:32.038 --> 00:49:32.579
be paying for.

00:49:33.298 --> 00:49:34.179
It should be out of pocket.

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:35.101
Yeah.

00:49:35.521 --> 00:49:35.701
Yeah.

00:49:35.722 --> 00:49:37.322
It doesn't mean the patient can't do it.

00:49:38.744 --> 00:49:41.106
And the people who have the argument to

00:49:41.126 --> 00:49:41.465
say, well,

00:49:41.485 --> 00:49:42.887
patients can't afford

00:49:44.326 --> 00:49:46.086
if you put the power back in the

00:49:46.106 --> 00:49:48.347
hands of the business owner they will

00:49:48.387 --> 00:49:50.347
build a business that patients can afford

00:49:51.068 --> 00:49:53.650
mcdonald's has built a business of feeding

00:49:53.710 --> 00:49:56.731
people at a price point they can afford

00:49:57.411 --> 00:49:59.632
like you just you've got to get it

00:49:59.711 --> 00:50:02.592
out of the government control right now i

00:50:02.672 --> 00:50:05.454
can't deliver a medicare visit for less

00:50:05.474 --> 00:50:08.596
than medicare pays even though technically

00:50:08.655 --> 00:50:10.896
i have the capacity to do it legally

00:50:10.996 --> 00:50:11.597
i can't do it

00:50:12.677 --> 00:50:13.217
So, like,

00:50:13.556 --> 00:50:16.418
get the government out of that regulation.

00:50:16.557 --> 00:50:18.798
Let the private practices do what they

00:50:18.838 --> 00:50:19.438
want to do.

00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.338
A lot of them will go cash.

00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:22.800
A lot of them will go premium.

00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:23.579
That's awesome.

00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.840
But then they're going to be the big

00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:26.420
companies,

00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:27.760
the private equities that are going to

00:50:27.820 --> 00:50:29.940
bring an affordable solution out for

00:50:30.041 --> 00:50:34.963
pennies on the dollar.

00:50:34.983 --> 00:50:35.643
It's a lot, but...

00:50:37.306 --> 00:50:39.867
I feel like I want to be part

00:50:39.907 --> 00:50:42.367
of the private equity that does the

00:50:44.528 --> 00:50:46.510
consolidating or the grouping or the

00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:49.869
portfolio effect of the premium options.

00:50:50.851 --> 00:50:52.791
It makes sense for all the private equity

00:50:52.891 --> 00:50:55.771
to back all the big Ivy Rehab and

00:50:57.713 --> 00:51:00.572
Athletico and ATI and all the big guys,

00:51:00.833 --> 00:51:01.813
most of them are

00:51:02.878 --> 00:51:05.659
pe backed to catch the like to have

00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:07.860
the widest net right to take every

00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:12.380
insurance and all that but it's like you

00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:16.563
could have i mean it's it's a different

00:51:16.583 --> 00:51:19.684
investment uh and like the approach is

00:51:19.724 --> 00:51:24.545
different but knowing that you can hire

00:51:24.585 --> 00:51:26.925
almost any therapist potentially keep any

00:51:26.945 --> 00:51:30.088
therapist in terms of compensation have

00:51:30.188 --> 00:51:31.027
way more margin

00:51:32.235 --> 00:51:34.336
and then just reinvest profits back into

00:51:34.376 --> 00:51:37.518
paid media or other things like videos and

00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:38.820
stuff that you're putting out and all the

00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.621
other ways to attract more of those

00:51:40.641 --> 00:51:41.101
patients.

00:51:42.782 --> 00:51:42.961
I mean,

00:51:43.081 --> 00:51:44.222
there's plenty of other private equity

00:51:44.483 --> 00:51:46.463
that does back more of like the premium

00:51:46.965 --> 00:51:49.085
restaurants and other brands.

00:51:49.126 --> 00:51:50.827
So certainly possible.

00:51:51.407 --> 00:51:52.429
That's what I was going to ask you.

00:51:52.469 --> 00:51:54.550
So what are examples outside of health

00:51:54.590 --> 00:51:57.193
care where private equity or just investor

00:51:57.253 --> 00:52:01.657
money in general comes in and supports a

00:52:01.757 --> 00:52:04.440
premium service based experience?

00:52:05.201 --> 00:52:07.302
Like I know they're rolling up plumbing

00:52:07.382 --> 00:52:08.164
businesses,

00:52:08.204 --> 00:52:10.126
they're rolling up roofing companies,

00:52:10.166 --> 00:52:12.086
they're rolling up some of those things.

00:52:12.807 --> 00:52:13.367
But like,

00:52:13.847 --> 00:52:15.688
are there examples where they're going to

00:52:15.728 --> 00:52:16.289
come in?

00:52:16.909 --> 00:52:18.708
And if the standard rate, I mean,

00:52:18.748 --> 00:52:19.869
standard rate for a roof,

00:52:19.929 --> 00:52:21.929
I'm making this up is twenty thousand

00:52:21.969 --> 00:52:22.349
dollars.

00:52:23.590 --> 00:52:25.650
Is there a fifty thousand dollar roofing

00:52:25.690 --> 00:52:27.570
company that a private equity is going to

00:52:27.590 --> 00:52:30.851
come in and consolidate and roll up?

00:52:31.351 --> 00:52:32.652
I didn't think there was.

00:52:32.811 --> 00:52:35.771
I thought their sweet spot is kind of

00:52:35.972 --> 00:52:37.753
medium to low price point.

00:52:37.833 --> 00:52:39.952
Just get lots of those businesses.

00:52:42.311 --> 00:52:43.072
I'm going to have to get back to

00:52:43.092 --> 00:52:43.391
you on that.

00:52:43.492 --> 00:52:45.373
I know that there's definitely the

00:52:46.293 --> 00:52:48.833
investors that back maybe the middle

00:52:48.873 --> 00:52:49.233
range.

00:52:49.333 --> 00:52:50.414
I don't know if you've ever heard of

00:52:50.434 --> 00:52:53.014
the Darden Group, D-A-R-D-E-N, Darden.

00:52:53.355 --> 00:52:56.036
And they own a bunch of brands,

00:52:56.755 --> 00:52:57.717
like restaurant brands.

00:52:57.737 --> 00:53:01.677
And those brands are not McDonald's.

00:53:02.677 --> 00:53:03.137
Um,

00:53:03.177 --> 00:53:04.818
but I would say they're definitely like

00:53:04.878 --> 00:53:05.438
mid tier.

00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:07.960
Um, I think they own bonefish grill.

00:53:08.059 --> 00:53:10.101
I think they own maybe,

00:53:10.181 --> 00:53:12.442
maybe Carrabba's like some of those types

00:53:12.481 --> 00:53:13.061
of brands.

00:53:13.963 --> 00:53:14.362
Um,

00:53:14.402 --> 00:53:15.842
because I remember getting some of those

00:53:15.882 --> 00:53:17.403
darting gift cards and then it's like,

00:53:17.503 --> 00:53:18.885
you flip it over and you see like,

00:53:18.965 --> 00:53:19.965
I could use that, you know,

00:53:20.025 --> 00:53:22.246
five or six of these different restaurants

00:53:22.286 --> 00:53:23.226
or brands nearby.

00:53:23.346 --> 00:53:24.586
And it's like multiple.

00:53:24.606 --> 00:53:27.847
So some of those brands are those

00:53:27.907 --> 00:53:29.548
restaurant brands are like the,

00:53:30.748 --> 00:53:32.989
maybe the two and three dollar,

00:53:33.028 --> 00:53:34.530
like what you see like online was like

00:53:34.550 --> 00:53:35.530
the dollar amount.

00:53:35.550 --> 00:53:37.371
So it's like mid- They do both.

00:53:37.592 --> 00:53:39.932
They have Olive Garden, Longhorn,

00:53:40.012 --> 00:53:43.614
Cheddar's, Yardhouse, Bahama Breeze,

00:53:44.036 --> 00:53:46.376
but then they also have Ruth's, Chris,

00:53:46.396 --> 00:53:50.778
Eddie's, V's Prime, Seafood.

00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.541
So it looks like they're at both ends,

00:53:54.181 --> 00:53:56.382
but my hunch would be that the majority

00:53:56.443 --> 00:53:58.304
of it comes from that middle tier,

00:53:58.364 --> 00:53:58.943
like you said.

00:53:59.853 --> 00:54:03.036
majority of what majority of profitability

00:54:03.096 --> 00:54:06.559
and revenue like i i don't think a

00:54:06.619 --> 00:54:09.561
ruth's chris or anything in that price

00:54:09.621 --> 00:54:12.483
point hundred dollar plus meals individual

00:54:12.503 --> 00:54:15.166
meals i don't think that contributes as

00:54:15.385 --> 00:54:17.628
much of the profit maybe it's more

00:54:17.688 --> 00:54:20.791
profitable as an individual restaurant

00:54:21.371 --> 00:54:24.353
But over the umbrella of the organization,

00:54:24.793 --> 00:54:25.574
I've got to think,

00:54:25.894 --> 00:54:28.016
and we can look into it, Olive Garden,

00:54:28.056 --> 00:54:28.577
Longhorn,

00:54:28.717 --> 00:54:31.858
those things contribute more profit in

00:54:31.998 --> 00:54:34.420
absolute terms and more revenue in

00:54:34.481 --> 00:54:34.822
absolute.

00:54:35.001 --> 00:54:37.583
McDonald's is more profit in absolute

00:54:37.623 --> 00:54:40.786
terms because it's so huge compared to

00:54:40.925 --> 00:54:42.648
even something like Chick-fil-A.

00:54:43.088 --> 00:54:44.208
Everybody wants to say, oh,

00:54:44.268 --> 00:54:46.349
Chick-fil-A does two million per location

00:54:46.389 --> 00:54:48.452
and McDonald's does less or whatever the

00:54:48.492 --> 00:54:48.992
number is.

00:54:49.733 --> 00:54:51.519
But in absolute terms,

00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:53.527
there is a whole lot more McDonald's than

00:54:53.547 --> 00:54:54.289
there are Chick-fil-A.

00:54:55.788 --> 00:54:58.469
almost forty or thirty eight thousand

00:54:58.568 --> 00:55:00.469
extra locations onto more than

00:55:00.489 --> 00:55:01.010
Chick-fil-A.

00:55:01.490 --> 00:55:02.951
In absolute terms,

00:55:03.530 --> 00:55:06.873
I can open thousands more average physical

00:55:06.893 --> 00:55:09.333
therapy clinics that deliver an average

00:55:09.373 --> 00:55:12.014
patient care experience that isn't bad

00:55:12.594 --> 00:55:16.117
compared to a high touch point, premium,

00:55:16.257 --> 00:55:17.396
amazing, you know,

00:55:17.458 --> 00:55:20.318
pro level athlete physical therapy clinic.

00:55:20.958 --> 00:55:23.081
Because there's just way more opportunity

00:55:23.101 --> 00:55:23.661
in that pool.

00:55:23.701 --> 00:55:24.722
Okay.

00:55:24.922 --> 00:55:25.222
Yes.

00:55:25.563 --> 00:55:28.244
And as time goes by, every five years,

00:55:28.284 --> 00:55:29.085
every ten years,

00:55:29.967 --> 00:55:32.268
with inflation and cost of living,

00:55:32.329 --> 00:55:33.829
which one becomes easier to operate?

00:55:35.143 --> 00:55:36.043
McDonald's and Chick-fil-A.

00:55:36.063 --> 00:55:36.603
The average one.

00:55:36.983 --> 00:55:38.105
The middle of the road one.

00:55:38.264 --> 00:55:39.646
How?

00:55:39.726 --> 00:55:41.208
When your margins are getting squeezed.

00:55:41.447 --> 00:55:41.668
How?

00:55:41.748 --> 00:55:42.969
How does that become easier to operate?

00:55:42.989 --> 00:55:44.809
Because you have economies of scale.

00:55:45.130 --> 00:55:47.351
You have other opportunities within the

00:55:47.411 --> 00:55:48.333
opportunity.

00:55:50.215 --> 00:55:51.876
And again, I'm speculating.

00:55:52.376 --> 00:55:55.257
I'm thinking that's what happens because I

00:55:55.338 --> 00:55:59.121
see Coca-Cola versus some champagne

00:55:59.161 --> 00:55:59.541
company.

00:56:00.101 --> 00:56:03.284
I see McDonald's versus Ruth's Chris.

00:56:03.304 --> 00:56:03.385
Yeah.

00:56:04.048 --> 00:56:05.748
Like in my mind,

00:56:07.117 --> 00:56:09.077
looking at the entire pie,

00:56:09.518 --> 00:56:12.119
there is far more opportunity for those

00:56:12.201 --> 00:56:14.902
big businesses that are highly scalable

00:56:15.362 --> 00:56:17.324
than there is for the premium level

00:56:17.384 --> 00:56:17.704
service.

00:56:17.744 --> 00:56:18.565
But we need both.

00:56:19.144 --> 00:56:20.346
Let's do parting shots.

00:56:20.646 --> 00:56:23.188
My parting shot is always going to be,

00:56:24.949 --> 00:56:27.431
we are still, anybody watching this,

00:56:27.570 --> 00:56:29.652
I guarantee we're all still at the

00:56:30.092 --> 00:56:33.153
minuscule level where the person you bring

00:56:33.235 --> 00:56:34.454
into your organization,

00:56:34.534 --> 00:56:36.016
even if you have a hundred employees

00:56:36.056 --> 00:56:36.436
already,

00:56:37.697 --> 00:56:40.860
One person can either be a cancer that

00:56:40.900 --> 00:56:42.643
kills the rest of the organization,

00:56:43.523 --> 00:56:46.746
or it can be a net benefit that

00:56:46.927 --> 00:56:48.329
elevates the organization.

00:56:48.349 --> 00:56:50.311
You have to understand who it is that

00:56:50.351 --> 00:56:50.911
you're hiring.

00:56:53.387 --> 00:56:53.807
Yes.

00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:55.449
Oh, I know.

00:56:55.608 --> 00:56:56.588
So we got to wrap up.

00:56:56.648 --> 00:56:58.750
But one of the examples is Equinox,

00:56:58.829 --> 00:56:59.170
Equinox.

00:56:59.610 --> 00:57:00.771
I don't know what the investors are.

00:57:00.791 --> 00:57:01.831
We'll have to look it up and we

00:57:01.851 --> 00:57:02.530
don't have time right now.

00:57:02.570 --> 00:57:04.972
But we have talked about Equinox recently

00:57:05.351 --> 00:57:07.213
and they are the premium option close

00:57:07.253 --> 00:57:09.454
enough to physical therapy compared to the

00:57:09.474 --> 00:57:10.853
Planet Fitness, which is ten,

00:57:10.914 --> 00:57:11.655
twenty dollars a month.

00:57:11.695 --> 00:57:14.215
Equinox is what we've seen, two fifty,

00:57:14.576 --> 00:57:16.376
three fifty, four hundred dollars a month,

00:57:16.396 --> 00:57:17.376
depending on the location.

00:57:18.336 --> 00:57:19.338
That is the premium option.

00:57:19.358 --> 00:57:20.398
So we have to look at what are

00:57:20.438 --> 00:57:21.320
those investors?

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:22.320
Who are those investors?

00:57:22.521 --> 00:57:25.762
And they're absolutely investing in way,

00:57:25.864 --> 00:57:28.186
way more like taking longer to get their

00:57:28.206 --> 00:57:28.826
money back.

00:57:28.965 --> 00:57:30.708
And it's more of the premium option.

00:57:31.208 --> 00:57:33.210
But knowing that we recently discussed,

00:57:34.190 --> 00:57:36.032
I think it's Equinox that their average

00:57:36.192 --> 00:57:37.713
customer is paying like

00:57:38.458 --> 00:57:39.259
I forget what it was like,

00:57:39.298 --> 00:57:40.358
four thousand dollars a year.

00:57:40.398 --> 00:57:41.760
And they think in the next five years

00:57:41.780 --> 00:57:43.659
they can go to six thousand dollars per

00:57:43.699 --> 00:57:45.119
year in the next five years.

00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:48.420
So it's like they have the opportunity to

00:57:48.460 --> 00:57:50.260
continue to get more of like their

00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:51.840
customers wallet share if they're

00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:56.322
delivering value and Planet Fitness will

00:57:56.362 --> 00:57:56.581
not.

00:57:56.681 --> 00:57:58.601
They're going to sell five dollar T-shirts

00:57:58.681 --> 00:57:59.922
and they give away free pizza.

00:57:59.943 --> 00:58:03.322
Like how else will Planet Fitness have

00:58:03.463 --> 00:58:05.704
more share of their customers wallets?

00:58:06.184 --> 00:58:07.483
That is a good question.

00:58:10.077 --> 00:58:13.938
But Planet Fitness has way less of an

00:58:13.978 --> 00:58:16.458
ability to have more of wallet share of

00:58:16.498 --> 00:58:18.498
their customers because they already chose

00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:19.760
the lower cost option.

00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:21.260
All right.

00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:22.280
I'll do the research.

00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:23.081
I'll bring it back.

00:58:23.121 --> 00:58:24.541
Guys, come back on Thursday,

00:58:24.621 --> 00:58:25.621
eight thirty in the morning.

00:58:25.681 --> 00:58:26.001
Dave,

00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:27.922
you have an amazing rest of your day.

00:58:29.766 --> 00:58:29.947
That's it.

00:58:29.967 --> 00:58:30.286
We're out.

00:58:30.327 --> 00:58:31.748
Boys, what the hell are you doing?

00:58:31.788 --> 00:58:34.608
Follow Tony Meritato on YouTube at Total

00:58:34.648 --> 00:58:35.690
Therapy Solution.

00:58:35.750 --> 00:58:36.730
Find Dave Kittle at

00:58:36.769 --> 00:58:39.952
conciergepainrelief.com and on YouTube at

00:58:39.972 --> 00:58:41.152
The Dave Kittle Show.

00:58:41.472 --> 00:58:44.614
And follow Jimmy McKay at PT Podcasts on

00:58:44.634 --> 00:58:45.775
YouTube, the socials,

00:58:45.875 --> 00:58:47.655
and wherever you binge podcasts you

00:58:47.675 --> 00:58:49.336
pretend are for CEUs.

00:58:49.657 --> 00:58:51.117
And hey, just a reminder,

00:58:51.577 --> 00:58:52.878
none of this was for advice.

00:58:52.898 --> 00:58:54.239
This was for entertainment only.

00:58:54.699 --> 00:58:56.059
Our lawyers say that counts.

00:58:56.139 --> 00:58:57.041
Thanks, Keith.