The Revenue Model PT Clinics Are Missing: Live Selling + Trust

0:03 Broadcasting way too early from three separate Wi-Fi connections. It's PT Breakfast Club with Tony Meritato, Dave Kittle, and Jimmy McKay. Gentlemen, what do you think about the new intro? Like pretty beefy voice guy there, huh? You said you know the person? So that was, I mean, I hired Adam as an intern. Twenty years ago, I think. Twenty two years ago. He's still at the radio station I hired him at as an intern. I remember the meeting. I remember the meeting with my boss. I was like the number two. Chris was the number one. We did a little meeting with this kid.

0:43 The kid left. He's probably a couple years younger than me. I don't know why I call him a kid. He left, and Chris goes, what do you think? We should hire him for zero dollars or whatever? And I was like, no, that guy's weird. And he goes, we sort of want weird. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Twenty years later, Kit's still there. I keep calling him Kit. I don't know why. He's bounced around. He's done a bunch of different things. He works for a nationally syndicated show for a while. Did you ever hear of the Kid Craddock morning show? No. No. It was like one of those shows based in Dallas and then sent to like a hundred radio stations across the country. But he was the producer for that for a number of years. So little stage in Northeast PA, but also big time. We got a bunch of things like that that Adam went ahead and voiced for me.

1:27 This is an example of if I start producing your podcast, which is like a side quest that I'm doing on top of the other side quest, on top of the other side quest, that's called an imaging package. So you would get things like that sort of thing to image your show. It doesn't have to be Adam's voice, but it could be, you know, it could be something like that with a visual. I have an intro I have to read, so we got to get this out of the way so people know what to expect. You got to tee it up, right? That's right. If Jeff Bezos ran your clinic, he'd be asking every single patient, you know this, would you like a foam roller with that? I mean, we can get into the strategy of when McDonald's did this in the late nineties, early mid nineties. Meanwhile, creators are out here live selling toe spacers, uh, And rake it in six figures doing it.

2:11 So why are PT clinics still stuck acting like it's twenty nineteen? Let's fix that. We'll dive into what bike shops do better than you, a health care provider with the damn doctoral degree. Why CEOs might be killing your progress and how Tony's sneaky new project might be your clinic's new front door. Talking about what you're doing back on the website bandwagon. Plus, we've got some new sponsors, so we'll start with that. And we can't you can't say no to Dave loves the sponsors. Here's why I know, because he starts to giggle. So congratulations to our brand new sponsor, the Metrix Fairy. The Metrix Fairy, still chasing likes like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, like it's, Visit metricsferry.biz.

3:02 We're still doing .bizs. All right. Download her new KPI coloring book and finally learn what ROI stands for. Hint, it's not real on Instagram. The Metrics Ferry. So let's start with this. Live selling. I think we've mentioned three shows in a row that we were going to talk about live selling, and then we've almost done it at the end of three shows in a row. So we might get to it. So let's define what it is. I frame it as it's QVC on YouTube or QVC on a different app, like Gary V's pushing whatnot as this app. But live selling on TikTok is one of the biggest things in the world. Uh, it's being able to buy stuff.

3:43 Hey, check out these AirPods. These are great. You'd be able to click and buy now. Uh, where do you guys see the opportunity for this? Or is this just something else to distract us from what we, what we're here to do to make money? Dave, have you seen any of the live selling stuff? I've seen it for the traditional like clothing and the traditional physical products. I haven't seen it for anything else. Um, I would love to kind of hear what you have in mind, whether it's the things that you're doing in your clinic with like basically the same products that you do, the unboxing videos and the product review videos. So it's the Heichi massage gun. I think, I think you Tony could do it.

4:24 I think you can do it. almost today if you wanted to. I know you're very, I don't want to say bashful, you're very humble, but you are so comfortable in front of the camera. I think you could almost do it right away. So I would just love to kick it back to you and hear what are your thoughts around this whole thing? Yes, it's happening with physical products and stuff you can buy on Amazon or Timu or whatever, where it's like this sweatshirt or this home gadget, whatever, for your kitchen. But I think you were initially mentioning it for... health and wellness products that we could potentially do in physical therapy? What do you think? Yeah, it's like anything. There's a spectrum. You've got the QVC hard sell.

5:04 Buy it now. You've got fifteen minutes. It's going off. You're never going to get it again. all the way to, I think, where we would be as professionals, it's more education-based. It's more, hey, come be a fly on the wall. Join me for this therapy session. I've got a great one for you guys today. I'm treating a patient who has... You're showing. OK, that's what has total knee replacement, twenty four hours post-op. I want you to see, you know, how I approach this, the tools we use, what we do. And so literally, it's just education. It's just teaching. It's the same thing that I did with.

5:45 PT students during the pandemic, where I was like a virtual CI, they got on Zoom, they got on a HIPAA compliant video platform, just followed me around. And if I happen to use a piece of equipment, I'm like, yeah, this is my favorite, which it genuinely is. I buy this on Amazon, or the company sent it to me. And this is what we do with it. And this is how we use it. This goes all the way back to, you know, Rob Vining and Dave Kittle and PT Tech Talk talking about like, how you can get creative with stuff and MacGyver things around. So like the thing that got me started were these floor lift chairs. I love the idea of getting people off the ground who didn't get hurt, but they ended up on the floor.

6:32 And these chairs are like five or six hundred dollars. They're amazing. They I just I looked on my my Did he freeze? Are you still there, Jimmy? Oh, sorry. I thought that was me. Yeah, he froze. What I'm doing, I thought I screwed that up. I'm on Whatnot right now. And essentially, I mean, what you're looking at is these dudes are just selling knives right now. So this is just like a point of view shot, right? But I'm guessing if I hit right... Oh, sorry. It's not even selling. These guys are bidding. This is an auction. So I know you can set it up differently. We're looking at Whatnot. That's a new app, right?

7:14 That you're going to need to build traffic to. But there's also built in traffic. So you got these two things and it looks like you can bid on this like knife set right here and you've got a chat. So it's exactly what you'd think. It's live eBay. Like eBay is probably firing someone right now because they're like, how come you guys didn't think of this? Like you had the infrastructure, you had all these things and you could have done it, but you didn't. But that's the story, right? That's Kodak with digital cameras. How much of what I said did you get? Because I guess I picked up the network and that's where I got lost. Yeah, we got most of it. Right. So so you're thinking of, hey, listen, if I'm already suggesting this, if I'm again, if I'm saying this once to a patient and this is how it's done, I record it and then virtual Tony, virtual Dave Candy.

8:02 Virtual, you are saying that potentially tens of thousands of times later. I actually looked up a phrase. We'll get to the phrase. I looked it up on YouTube and I scroll one thing down and it's Tony's video. And I scroll down again and it's Tony's video. And I scroll down again, it's Tony's video. I searched a generic term. I'll tell you what it is later. But Tony was not the first video, but he was the second, third and fourth. And if you know anything about track and field or swimming and how points are scored, second, third and fourth beats first. I like that because you're showing up in multiple places. Yeah.

8:42 What's the search term? Why can't you tell us? I'm on the edge of my seat now. On the edge of your... That's called foreshadowing. And I didn't tell you what the search term was because... Oh, come on. Because it's one of our sponsors. I searched this term. It's the eight-minute rule. Are you serious? Wait, you seriously searched the eight-minute rule and Tony's videos came up for two, three, four, five, whatever. If you go to YouTube and you type in the eight-minute rule... Tony comes up like two, three, four, eight minute timer. If you have the eight minute rule in your life, you buy this. This solves your problem. You want to stretch eight minutes into forever. Grab the eight minute timer calibrated to move slower.

9:22 Anytime your boss walks by comes with preloaded small talk prompts like, so do you play pickleball or hey, what are you doing this weekend? Or, hey, what did you do last weekend? Eightminuteenergy.com. Just use code, just bill it, and we'll throw in a stopwatch with a side of existential dread. The eight-minute timer. Yeah, I was looking up the eight-minute rule because there's a podcast that was just launched by a PT called called like the eight minute rule. And I saw it. I was like, this is great. All your episodes are eight minutes. And we get on a call to like sort of chop it up. And he was like, well, no, they're all longer than eight minutes. And I was like, no man, like seven minute abs. Like you just, just turn it off at eight minutes.

10:03 Have a clock in the corner, have a clock. Right. Counting down, not up, down or up. It doesn't matter. But like you shut it off. And he was like, oh, yeah, we started that. I'm like, dude, I'm on your YouTube. Your your shortest video is eleven minutes. You violated the canon of the eight minute rule right out of the gate. But I think there's a lot of potential. So we'll get to Jordan and his eight minute rule podcast. But that's how I was. That's what I'm searching for. OK, so live selling. I was working out yesterday and I thought of you guys and this whole live selling idea. Maybe it was because we were, you know, it was like the night before this show. And I'm like, well, so Tony mentioned the live selling. He does it in a way with, you kind of do it a little bit with some of these videos, but I know you're not going to be, so Tony is just not going to be overly salesy.

10:49 He's not going to go like crazy tonality the way I'll go through the roots sometimes, you know? But I was thinking like, and I think one of you floated this. Let me, I want to just, I want to just clarify. Did one of you float us live selling stuff on the show was that floated yes we're gonna do that we're gonna do that you know we're gonna do that eventually so my idea and i'm working on it with some people in the background because there's a bunch of people who could benefit from this so i won't reveal who it is because i want to keep it sort of secret till we pop it right this is this is ptqvc Again, just give me an idea that I understand, although I think a lot of kids probably don't even know what QVC is. It's quality, value, something else. It's TV when they sold stuff to you.

11:31 My grandmother, my mother, and my aunts would call each other on a group call and watch QVC at the same time. Wow. Oh, that's nice. We should get that for Aunt Bessie. Aunt Bessie would love that. That's oh, look at that necklace. Right. Look what we just did there because they lived in different parts of the country. So this is bringing the option to purchase something directly where you are in the moment. We have almost almost gone full circle. back to what we did fifteen years ago someone actually had a post like a whole month ago i made fun of it which was you know we should do we should put all the streaming platforms on one platform and then just pay for access for that is like you invented people congratulations someone a year ago was like you'll be fun is we could all know who we're listening to listening to the same podcast at the same time as you just invented radio that's we used to do that we went away from it because you don't want that But that's where you just, everything is full circle.

12:33 Bell bottoms are in, then they're stupid, then they're in again, people. The other thing that I think viewers need to consider is we understand live selling as products, but it's just as easy to sell a service, you know? And that's where we go back to, like, I watched Dave, I saw your video of a client on the bed doing some upper body stuff. I saw that. I was there. I was in the room. I was part of that experience. And so you could just as easily sell the service of a session with you or a consultation over the phone. Or I feel like my PT doesn't know what he's doing. I'm going to call Dave just to see if I'm on the right track or not.

13:14 All of these things are totally doable. And I think what you get with live, it's not like... prefabricated. You don't have to worry about lighting. You can make mistakes. The pressure is gone from a prefabricated video. You just go out and start talking. Even if you mess it up, nobody cares. It's a lie. Yeah. Who cares? Honestly, like I've talked more people out of editing podcasts or videos and into like It's easier with the academics because I'm like, when you give class, do you stop the class if you mess up and be like, oh, come on, pretend I didn't say that. Let's go back to the previous sentence. No, of course not. That's stupid. Human brains can do the edit in real time.

13:55 Got it. That wasn't supposed to be there. Okay, moving on. This is not a song that's going to hopefully win a Grammy. This is live. This is where time and space matter. You have to be at this app. this time watching this thing to get that deal. People love this. Even when we know it's a trick, go to Amazon three remaining. I better buy it now. Cause what comes after three, two, one, and then zero, zero means I lose. Oh, we, so I, Tony, though, I knew you were going to say it, uh, services, not just physical products. That's why I asked it. So I already had that on my head. I know you mentioned, uh, you might be, uh, phasing out one of your are you phasing out the medicare course the or some other course or something you said you or me and then but then i saw a post where you might be bringing another course back or whatever so like that could be on here but what are the what are the pros and cons of when you guys saying floating the idea of live selling would it be pitching and selling stuff to the audience which is typically physical therapists at this point which is a smaller audience, but maybe more targeted.

15:00 Or the mass public of like, hey, check out this new massage gun that Tony's using in his office. Some PTs might buy it, but there's way more... you know public out there that you can we could show them so but so how can you how can you do both you do it on different channels like who the audience is for that channel like i wouldn't sell uh victoria's secret underwear on espn actually that might actually work but you see what i mean like sports guys but also that's like wrapping paper selling wrapping paper to the sports guys um different audiences like tony's medicare channel is talking to clinicians Because it's learning how to bill Medicare. People who have Medicare don't care about that. That's a PT problem.

15:41 But a public-facing channel, you could sell. This is B to B or B to C is the answer. But who's the audience for the channel? And that's how you decide. I think you could do both, though. Do you guys know Stroops? I think I asked this the other day. This guy, I did an episode with him. Sean Harker's nuts in all the right ways. Like this guy is off the wall. He's like my energy with some ideas, but he knows how to build stuff. Like he can take the idea and make a physical product out of it. For him, he could go business to consumer. Like, hey, do you want to build a home gym? Like, here's the seven things you should have in your home gym to start. And he could walk over to the squat rack that he built and the straps that he built and the thing that he built and the other thing in the curved treadmill that he built. Or you could just have a different channel, different audience, different headline, different thumbnail.

16:25 Even I think would tell people, hey, do you run a physical therapy clinic and you just you don't want to get hosed by paying rogue prices? Great. Perfect. I have better stuff at home. at less because you're not going to pay for the label here. Let me show you how to outfit your PT clinic for less than a thousand dollars. Boom, boom, boom. And you're like, you know what? There's the, there's the line from Futurama. Take my money. I think it could be different channels. I think it could also be the same challenge. This has been a concept that a lot of guys have been talking about. The algorithm has gotten good enough that you don't need to make separate channels anymore. If I make something where I'm talking to other practice owners about the floor lift chair and about how I use it, what I do with it, how I use it in my clinic, how I sell it to clients.

17:13 It's targeting practice owners, even though that's a small audience. I think I could probably put that on the same channel as content that's direct to consumer. And the people who are looking for total knee replacement content won't be shown the video that's intended for other practice owners. The algorithm will split that and kind of direct it to the appropriate audiences, even on the same channel. I'm not comfortable with that. I don't like that. We talked about what was the flyer that got shared about charging dollars. Jimmy tagged me as a collaborator. It showed up on my Instagram and I kind of knew it was gonna.

17:56 It made me uncomfortable because nothing on my Instagram is for other therapists. Everything on my Instagram is for the general population. Got it. But it didn't matter. It still got like three or four thousand views on my Instagram. uh so i was like yeah who cares let's just see what happens yeah i mean a lot of this is i'm gonna look deep in the camera here guys a lot of this is just trying some stuff and see what happens like that's why i loved being a radio like i'd be out at a bar with like the the engineers the guys who helped me put on radio right in the background and we'd be like you know you should do we should do this and this this and monday we'd just do it and by thursday we'd like kind of figure out like does this is this have legs or does this suck and then we just tried again and i remember being like I better hope no one figures out that I'm just making this stuff up.

18:43 And then like a couple of years later, I'm like, oh, everyone's making this up. Everyone's making this up. We're just figuring. But what the magic is, is the paying attention to how it works or doesn't work. Teasing the lessons out of that and then taking that on to the next project. People say going back to the drawing board. I'm like, that's a negative. I'm like, I freaking love that because I'm going back to a drawing board with knowledge. I didn't have the first the last time I was at the drawing board. I got better weapons. So, Tony, let's wrap this up or let's sum this idea up. My pitch is I've got someone, we've got a couple people that we know in our network. I want a low, medium, high. I want a twenty dollar item.

19:24 I want a two hundred dollar item. I want a two thousand dollar item. I want them on the same show. And I want to be like, here's this. But then it's. You can do a bunch of different paradigms. What I'm going to do is go to YouTube and watch an old episode of QVC for an hour. I'm going to go full tongue-in-cheek, right? But I'm going to watch their patterns. Dave even mentioned it. Why do they have those changes in tonality? Because our brains brain that way, right? It just does. And people call in. Correct. Yes, we could do call-ins. Why do people talk to baby? Oh, why do baby? Why do we talk to babies like this? No one taught us to do that, but babies react. So we say, the more I talk, the more react.

20:05 The more I talk like this, the more react. It's the same for trying to convince or persuade or sell. I again, I just want to see if this works. I think we know it does because we have we have we have previous examples of it working. But now is the delivery smooth? Is the time of Tony doing a live stream for an hour? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Could it be worth the squeeze in six days, six weeks, six months? If you tune the right channel the right way? I think the answer is yes. There's a lot of things that Gary V picks that I'm. for a lot that I'm like, eh, not so much. Think NFTs. I mean, maybe that's going to- That was a bust. That was a harvest of busts. I never saw it.

20:45 I got to be honest with you. I was like, huh, he's really excited, but I don't understand why I'm buying. But anyway, maybe I'm not seeing it in the future, which is true about everything. This will be a thing. Someone's going to figure it out in six months. You could figure out six days from now, and that's called first mover advantage. Do we want to go to another topic? Yeah, grab Dave's topic. Oh, Dave's topic. Yes. Okay. So Dave's topic was, Dave, you tee it up. So I sent you guys a thing about the home healthcare. And then there was, I think there was something else I sent yesterday. It was the home health one I was talking about. I thought that was a good one. Yeah. So there was something about, this is a Washington Post article about the challenges of home healthcare.

21:27 So typically we're talking about like home health aides and folks that are working with the older population in their homes for extended periods of time, typically eight hours a day, sometimes twelve hours a day or live in twenty four hours a day. And so the challenge with this and not to get political, but there is a little bit of a component of like, you know, with not having enough uh talent coming into the us potentially because of political reasons um the cost of it there's less and less it seems like there's less and less coverage for it whether it's your traditional insurance your i don't even know whatever whatever it is medicare medicare part a i know that there are some of the these life insurance policies like john hancock and some of these others that we've had patients over the years where they've used some of these life insurance policies that i think contribute and pay for some of these home health care And then historically, we've actually had patients call in where they're like, oh, it's a son or daughter.

22:27 The son or daughter is, you know, fifty or sixty and their mother or father is being discharged today from the hospital. And they're like, oh, my gosh, we need everything tomorrow. Like and the social workers help a little bit from these hospitals. they kind of help with like, okay, do they need a commode? We have to order that. Let's order other things and get it shipped to the house, which goes back to potentially live selling. But the home healthcare situation is challenging because of staffing, because of the rates that these agencies and these companies typically pay, which is most of the time minimum wage. I have no idea how someone can do this in New York City and live on what's minimum wage now? Is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, have a big marketing funnel at the top.

23:35 They teach individuals how to become home health aides and they get them certified, whatever the process is. It's not that long, whether it's a CNA certified nursing assistant or it's an HHA home health assistant or home health attendant, whatever. A lot of these companies teach individuals federal minimum wages. Yeah, that's crazy low, but it is what it is. And then New York, Sixteen fifty or whatever you just said. So there is such a there's such and I'm basically I have like two clients. I'm basically out of patient care, but I'm covering one of my therapist clients right now. And there's such a swing. There's such a wide variety of individuals and their willingness to help the client.

24:18 between when I'm there Monday versus when I'm there Friday. Like it's, there's like three or four, there's different home health aides overnight. There's different home, different home health aides throughout the week. And this patient, this family could absolutely pay out of pocket for like someone who is like way more motivated and like, but not everyone has that budget. Not everyone has that money. And this, this family still decides to use these agencies. And, It's something that I wanted to bring up also because I know Jimmy can kind of speak to this. He went through a bunch of stuff with Jimmy, with your father, and the challenges with home health services and someone with immobility.

24:59 So I wanted to bring it up also because it's in my world. It's kind of like very prominent in our world for folks that are, you know, seventy, eighty year old plus or they're coming out of a, you know, coming off a stroke, coming out of a hospital, things like that. The way I looked at this, I was like, oh, we're going to have a good discussion because everyone's looking at this thinking it has to be a nurse or it has to be a home health aide. I'm like, it has to be a person who has the willingness to do this qualifications. I mean, I'm sure there's certain things if you're going to bill for certain things, it's someone else's rules, right? If you're going to bill for this, you have to have these qualifications to be credentialed. Great. People buy solutions. People don't buy credentials. So, hey, guy, John Doe, PT, DPT, OCS, SCS, GFC, all the things.

25:45 Great. I need you to deliver this thing. I don't even know what the thing is. That's that I think is the magic. I forget who I was talking to the other day. And I was like, who are you selling this to? Who's the ideal person you want to put this in front of? And they were like, someone who's had a stroke. And I was like, my man, people who've had strokes, some of them can, but a lot of them can't be on an iPad. They're not on Instagram anymore, my man. You're trying to talk to me to buy something for my dad. And the guy literally in a live clarity call was like, oh. And I'm like, yeah, dude. That's like trying to sell baby formula to babies. Babies don't shop, my man. Like, I'm very sorry, but like they can't make the decision.

26:28 They don't know they have the needs. Someone else is making the decisions. Talk to the decision maker. You talk to a thirty two, thirty three to fifty year old kid. who has a parent, that's who this is for. If you have a solution for that, you are a multimillionaire if you're a logistics person because these people, older adults, need lots of things. And it's varied. It's no one size fits all. It's customized. What do you need? My dad had a stroke. aphasia. So my PT background kind of didn't really help. I looked at my SLP friends and I was like, little help over here. Got, we learned this. I learned about aphasia for like, twelve minutes in PT school. Thought it was very interesting.

27:09 If it's your dad, you're like, oh, this is not interesting anymore. This is, this is, you know, life changing. So I think you point out a big I think all all I heard you say, Dave, was massive opportunity. If you know how to solve this in your local community and a PT is more than equipped, a PTA more than equipped to do it. Is anybody is anybody who's going to jump on this? Well, so we've we've done this historically over the past maybe five or so years, like even during COVID, where we had. non-licensed professionals do this we call them care companions and we would get a call we would get a call today right now we get a call from a son or daughter like you said the decision maker is the son or daughter of the individual who's coming out of a hospital or whatever son or daughter is like oh my gosh we need like home physical therapy we got to keep them moving we want to avoid bed sores and pressure ulcers and all that type of stuff we got to keep them moving and got to get them up we wanted to get them out of the hospital because usually the mother father it wants to get out of the hospital.

28:05 They don't want to go, they don't want to go to a sniff. They don't want to go to a skilled nursing facility. They don't want to go to a lot of these facilities. This, this is even before COVID, but especially COVID accelerated this whole sentiment of not wanting to go to a skilled nursing facility. And most people now, I mean, I think it's maybe, maybe forever. I'm sure it's, it's, it's a long held belief of like, I want to age in place. I want to age at home. I want to, you know, I want to stay home because that's where they're most comfortable. And that's like where they can. I mean, there's a whole bunch of emotions around this of like wanting to keep control of the decision making around their health and wellness. So that's part of it as well. Someone who wants to maintain their independence, their dignity, their integrity. They want to keep all this as much as possible.

28:47 And so we, we've been doing this and I had a couple of clients that I met other unlicensed, you know, like, like layman, like just people like that are empathetic. They had a history in hospitality, whatever. And they don't have the CNA designation. They don't have the HHA designation, but they did all the stuff. that, you know, uh, changing, whatever, changing diapers, cleaning, uh, hygiene, feeding, uh, medication delivery, taking the client out to restaurants or whatever it is traveling with them. So we would have someone call in and they're like, we need home physical therapy, like ASAP, like tomorrow. And also like, do you know any like home health aides? And I was like, and then I could, you know, send a couple of texts or calls or whatever.

29:30 And I could get someone there tomorrow. And we would be very clear and transparent. These are vetted. These are people that I've known for three, four, five years. Vetted, trusted. I've worked with them personally. I've worked with them alongside, shoulder to shoulder with them, with other clients. And we tested a wide range of hourly rates. What's that, bottom of the funnel? No, no, no. I was writing down words. I'm like, here's what I need to see if I was looking for this person. If they were posting, I'm available. Can you... if I was looking for someone for my dad and you hit the word right off the bat, I was like, I need someone I can trust. I'm going to leave you alone with my dad, dude.

30:12 If I can't trust you, off the table, right? That is not an RN. It could be, but it's not in a credential. I need you to be able to think. I don't know what I need. You might not know what I need, but we need something. Look, I'm just gesturing wildly. So I need you to be able to think and pivot and think critically, right? Not necessarily evidence-based. That's in it. But if my dad is like, I'm going to just keep going to the refrigerator and he's going to fall, I need you to be like, hey, why don't I grab that for you? I know that's mind blowing, but I need someone who can do that. Right. And finally reliable. If I hire you and you're not going to show up two out of three days, then I can't go to work two out of three days or whatever that might be. So trust, I need you to be able to think like a human who's autonomous and I need you to be reliable.

30:56 None of those things are credentials. Now what I'm saying is if you have those credentials and you could do those three things, world is your oyster. And that, Go ahead, Tony. And it's not the kind of thing that's going to be replaced by AI. We are the kind of thing that gets replaced by AI because we are the cerebral, let's figure this out, let's think and process and that. The person who's actually there sitting with mom or dad, helping them eat, helping them go to the bathroom, helping them transfer in and out of bed, that's not going to be replaced. Robots are not going to replace it. AI is not going to replace it. I just can't believe that somebody hasn't stepped in.

31:38 Talk about opportunity for growth. build the school, build the academic setting, produce those people at high rates and high velocity. It's already happening. They don't need licensure. They don't need, you know, any of that stuff. Where is it happening? Well, Jerry could put together a course in the next two weeks and start like teaching people this. Wouldn't that be a great revenue source that would do good? It's already happening. I mentioned earlier that all of these agencies have a built-in tract to train individuals who have no experience in this at all. That goes back to the beginning of the topic of this post from the Washington Post, which is many of the individuals delivering this care or support or whatever you want to call it, many of them are not from the U.S.

32:30 Why? Because these agencies want to pay seven, twenty five an hour or ten dollars an hour or whatever. You're not going to get the quality, the trust, the professionalism, the savviness. Someone who has experience, if you're paying them ten dollars an hour or what did you say? Sixteen dollars, sixteen fifty in New York City to get your ad. Someone who lives way outside the city, someone lives some other place if they're making sixteen dollars and twenty five cents, twenty sixteen fifty an hour. Yeah, dude, like here's how you here's how you play on this for good. It's like, who would you trust to take care of your parents in their most vulnerable moments when you're not around?

33:13 You can do it, but that means I need you to understand most of your life stops if you're going to be the first person doing this. Everything, like your meals, your job, your social life. Now, what is your life and their care worth? Combine those two numbers together. That's what you pay the person. If the answer is ten dollars an hour, then if that's all you can afford, that's what you get. But this is a real problem that people are really willing to solve. And I think either Tony is deep in thought or he's frozen. I'm going to go with he's so convinced that Dave and Jimmy are right, that he is frozen and locked into place. So with this, when we were testing this, and I would love to hear, so David Rubin, you posted up on the screen share here that he's going through this right now.

33:59 When we were doing this, We were just, just guess how much were we charging? You were charging or how much you were paying? How much we were. So we were, we were, it was like, here's the physical therapy rate. Like you guys know. And then also here's the hourly rate for this other professional who, who I've vetted. I've worked with, I trust, I, I know them and I can have them there tomorrow or in when we're organizing shifts of eight hours and overnights and meals included and kind of training the whole family of like, here's the, here's what to expect, like everything. And like commode and like everything. And a checklist of items. Like, do you have latex gloves and AMD and like all that stuff?

34:40 Right. How much were we, how much were we? Sixty seven dollars. Sixty seven dollars an hour. Yeah, I was like doing the math like, OK, how much is it to go to work? Eight hours, nine hours. So it's like six times eight, four fifty a day. So that works in New York City. I mean, if you're somewhere else, that might not work, but that's OK because your costs are lower. Like the rising tide lifts all ships, but the cost also gets to the lowering tide gets to lower all ships in a good way. Yeah, I was going to say sixty to one hundred twenty five dollars an hour is what people in New York City would be willing to pay to take care of. Now, now that hourly rate for, you know, five hours, eight hours here and there or whatever that that doesn't make that's not crazy.

35:21 But when you take that hourly rate and you do fourteen days in a row of twenty four hour coverage or even twelve hour coverage, then it comes out to thousands and then tens of thousands of dollars. And that is the crux of why this is challenging, because families need to have the financial resources to pay that. Many of them think that it's kind of like maybe it's kind of like physical therapy, right? Like the people that are like, why would I pay two fifty three fifty a visit when I have United Healthcare, you know, in network coverage and my boss takes, you know, the money out of my account and I pay the monthly premiums and all that. people want you know a lot of times people want what we can offer like they want like their family member to be you know cared for and mobilized and you know personal hygiene and clean and fed and all that but they want the minimum wage rates and that is the crux of why this is the challenge here the the home health regardless of whether the home health aid the care companion the licensed unlicensed professional that's got experience in doing this that's going to stimulate the that's going to provide stimulation for the client or just like let them sit there and let them lay in bed all day.

36:31 Like there's such a wide variety of what the actual professional will do, can do. Are they going to take them out of the house or not? Are they afraid to move them? And they just want them to get weaker and lose muscle mass and lose strength and lose function and just keep them in their bed or put them in the recliner and put them in front of the TV all day. versus some home health aides that I've seen or the care companions where they take the client out to museums and restaurants and all the stimulating activity, take them out to Central Park and all that. Folks, if you want the the the i'll take your mother father out and stimulate them and look at old family albums and do you have to pay for that yeah they're they're no insurance is paying for this these days they're not they're insurance just like physical therapy is going to cover the bare minimum it's not going to cover the above and beyond of the full experience so It's kind of like I'm not that I'm preaching, but it's just like this is the crux of this is like who's doing this?

37:26 What are they delivering? What's the quality of what the experience that your mother father is actually going to be getting with this agency or company? And you get what you pay for. You sort of have to, like, because you don't understand what taking care of someone is like until you do it. Like, you think you do. Like, I must have heard, like, caregiver education four thousand times in PT school. And then you do it for one day, like one, like one real day where you're like, I'm gonna have to keep doing this. Do it for one day knowing you also have to do it tomorrow. That's a different game. You can't explain that to someone. You can't explain it to them. It's like someone trying to explain childbirth to me. I'm like, I believe everything you're saying. I cannot picture this.

38:06 I just can't wrap my mind around it. It's one of those things. You can have empathy, but you can't have sympathy. You can imagine what it's like, but you can't actually put yourself back in your shoes until you do it. This is a massive problem. It's only going to get massiver. my English teacher in high school is rolling over and saying, what are you talking about? But it is. And if you can help solve it, you will be doing, this is the intersection. You will be doing massive good, making money that is worth your time. And the person paying you will love you for it. If you're these people that can provide trust, if you can think, and if you're reliable. I need you to be the bare minimum of those three.

38:47 Can you be a normal human who can be trustworthy with my parents, If you can think autonomously and if you can show up, do those three things and you will make a lot of money. But you have to be a little flexible. I do want to say thank you again to one of our brand new sponsors, guys. We have to make sure we get all these in or we don't get any of the money. Congratulations. This one on the Christmas list for most PTs. Let's hear it for code nine, seven, five, three, zero. The party game for rehab pros. Billing fraud has never been this fun with code nine, seven, five, three, zero. Bluff your way through CPT codes, make up goals on the fly and see who can justify Therax for a patient with the paper cut.

39:29 Uh, check them out at rehab game night.com. Well, you'll find not only this game, but lots and lots more order now and get a bonus expansion pack documenting without really trying. Let's hear it for code nine, seven, five, three, zero. Thanks for coming on the show guys. All right, where do you guys want to go next? When you read these and now that you're adding a URL, a website, it sounds real. Tony, here's our next- These are fake ads if you're just coming up for the first time. Here's our next business. Buy all the URLs that I make up, but make them go to one page and we'll do something there. Or we just start making- Live selling. Live selling. This is live selling. Um, I've got we've got one more sponsor for the end of the show.

40:10 I'm saving the best one for last. I have a quick topic that I just wanted to highlight. And people came came for me in the comments, I think in on Facebook where I posted this, but I'll share the image here. I was in a bike shop this weekend. I was not there to buy a bike. I was there to get my ice hockey skates sharpened. While I was there, it takes a little while. It was a service that I was buying because I bought the skates online, but needed the service in person. So I went to my local place. And while I was there, I'm perusing and I'm a bike guy, but not when it's twelve degrees out. But I noticed they got these bikes and they got what's over here, helmets. And they also got, oh, what's that?

40:51 Nutrition and gloves and water bottles and bike pumps and And pedals and hand grips and all the things and all the goo and the honey stinger and the noon and the hydrate. There's me and there's the hockey skates. And I'm just thinking like, again, this is what we think about the parallel between this and this. And it goes back to like if you're not selling the yes and which is the only rule in improvisation comedy. Yes. And if you need this. Yes. And I also think you need this. I still, cause I've never run a clinic. So I'm preaching from the not been there, done that mountaintop worked in clinics, but like, I need to understand why more of them aren't doing that.

41:31 But maybe these two topics crossover with the live selling or the nut or the drop shipping. which I feel like when I bring up people like, what's that? And I'm like, that's a very simple term, but maybe PTs don't know about it and that's okay, but you don't have to carry massive inventory. You can do what's called drop shipping, which is someone orders something from your clinic and then someone far away in Kansas, again, I bring up Kansas a lot, but to me, that's middle of the country. Someone in Kansas then drops that into a box and ships it for you. So you have a thing in your clinic. You can have this one or you can have it in two days. And which one are you willing to pay for? But this way you don't have to carry four thousand things.

42:12 I don't know. To me, why don't we act more like bike shops which don't sell bikes? They do sell bikes, but they don't only sell bikes. They sell to a persona. There were snowshoes in there. There were hockey skates. They didn't sell skis, but they would do ski sharpening and ski waxing. I don't know. This feels simple, but I'm guessing because not a lot of everybody's doing it. Maybe I'm still wrong. I think we're just so risk averse as a profession, people drawn to the profession of physical therapy. You know, I was thinking like how much money they have tied up in inventory. My immediate thought is, what do you do when you go out of business? What do you do when you shut down? What do you do with all of that stuff?

42:52 You know, and so that's where I think But the funny thing is there's still young adults who think I'm going to borrow two hundred and fifty, three hundred thousand dollars to earn eighty or ninety thousand a year, maybe get pregnant and start a family in five years. That doesn't seem risky. But going this route, stocking a store, selling product that seems too risky. I mean, we, we go back to emotion too. Like I wouldn't, I don't want to sell this to people. I'll they'll think I'm a, they'll think I'm bad. You just told them an hour of your time and that's all you can sell them because that's, that's all. That's how time works. You could want to, I provide one-on-one care.

43:33 Great. What do you charge? eighty dollars an hour great then I know what your cap is if you are busy every minute of every waking hour of the day and you're actually ROI negative because you have to do other stuff like pay overhead you got to do a documentation that's not that one-on-one like so to me I don't know this feels like a great yes and people aren't doing it uh two weeks ago I would have said well Dave would never consider this and then two weeks ago we found out Dave has a brick and mortar that he's been hiding Dave's been doing this in public but private from us um What's your thoughts on doing something like this in your brick and mortar? You've got traffic. You're in a large, busy city. The busiest. Well, I mean, so we're one-on-one, right?

44:14 So we're not in network. We're not volume-based. So even that, I don't think it makes as much sense to have a lot of inventory. You could have one. Maybe there's a middle ground where you have like one of each, right? So Tony, if you wanted to, he's got all these different products. Now, Tony, let me kick it back to you. So what do you do with them? Could you make a mini display where it's like each of the different massage guns and each of the different... uh you know leg compression devices like is there something like that you have or are they just like you know they're they're somewhere else that patients don't see because for us if it's a one-on-one clinic it's lower volume so it's like you're not going to sell a ton of volume of units anyway so it doesn't make sense to have a whole bunch of multiple units of the same thing unless it's like i don't know something you sell a lot like a foam roller or whatever but um yeah tony like do you have a display case for this type of stuff are you considering that I am considering it.

45:11 That's one of the things that we've been working on. I was just looking. So this is new, still in the wrapper. What I've been doing is pre-selling. With Amazon, you get it just in... We can't see what you're doing. You're frozen. We can hear your audio, Tony. So just keep going. Pretend like you're live selling on the radio. All right. I was showing you guys a box of a massage gun that's still wrapped. So if I order it today, it's here by tomorrow. Yeah. And what I do is I pre-sell it in the clinic so that it's ready to go. And then, you know, I mark it up. Twenty percent. You could buy it from me here in the clinic or you can go use my affiliate link and buy it on Amazon directly.

45:51 Yeah. Guys, we've also gone full circle. What Tony just said is he can order something today and that thing's here tomorrow. So do you need this today or are you cool with this hitting your front porch tomorrow? You choose. If you buy it today, it's going to be worth X. And if you buy it for the two-day option or the even lighter option, scan this QR code, put it in your cart. It's my QR code. I get a nickel. But... You can then decide later, right? But look, we've gone full circle. We talked about bell bottoms. We talked about things that are going full circle. Someone just redesigned cable by saying, let's put all the streaming services together or let's all listen to the same podcast at the same time. That's radio. Amazon now has brick and mortar stores.

46:32 Guys, there's only two types of ideas. There's old ideas and new ways. And there's new ideas and old ways. So Amazon is like, yeah, so we're live selling. You can only watch certain Monday Night Football games at Amazon Prime. We've got traffic. We've got audience. We've got a way to monetize that. Now they've got full-on brick-and-mortar stores. Like, what? This doesn't make any sense. But it makes complete sense when you look at it. It's insane, but that's where we are. I don't even know who Adam is. Oh, no, I... Adam agrees with me, so that's why I like him. Great content, net revenue per visit enhancement via virtual dispensary programming is the path forward. That's fancy. I said the same thing, Adam. You just said it nicer and smarter.

47:13 So like Adam has been working on a project where, you know, therapists could sell kind of like the Amazon affiliate program. You earn a commission on it. He's put in a ton of money, a ton of work to figure out what's legal, what's not legal, what can we actually do? Because obviously there's a patient provider relationship in this. But it's one of those things where, again, we know that reimbursement is not going to turn around. It's not going to go up. It's not going to dramatically change. We know that there's growing populations of individuals who need our services. And so even though, you know, even at my clinic, maybe I get fifty people that come through the door.

47:53 That's not that bike shop probably has fifty people coming through every hour or two. Like I'm never going to have the volume in my clinic to really make it a retail project. But that's where we leverage online. That's where we leverage technology. That's where I do live selling here in the clinic. Hey, guys, this, you know, heating, cooling on a mini. It's amazing. I might sell one or two in the clinic, but it gives me the platform to buy now. Buy now. Sorry, I'm preparing a banner to go across the bottom.

48:34 Buy now before they're gone. Do you guys... You're in New York now, but you're from PA. No, I'm from Jersey. Philly was PT school. Oh, do you remember Crazy Eddie? Yeah, I remember that. You remember Crazy Eddie? He was. Oh, OK. Crazy Eddie was on TV in the eighties. And this dude, this dude understood for every dollar I put in TV commercials. And he was crazy in a warehouse talking about his TV, you know, his whatever he had. He was electronic store. uh he went up going to jail i just do want to preface that but he did some shady stuff the good stuff he did was understanding the arbitrage of for every dollar i put into tv ads four dollars comes out somewhere else a week later and he's like wow that math math so i'm gonna be crazy eddie where these prices are crazy and you're like this guy's nuts but i want a tv so that math math because look at that price you can't beat it so they understand the arbitrage of what it is like a pt clinic having a rack Like one of those really nice display cases that sells Oakley's doesn't make any sense or does it?

49:41 Because if your persona is fifteen year old high school baseball and football players and they walk by that twenty times and they purchase one, that's higher ticket. I think an interesting comparison and I don't know if anybody I'm not in this world, but ophthalmologist or optometrist, you go in like two. I don't know. One or two of my kids have glasses. And when I go, when I go, you know, they have the display and the glasses, the frames, the lenses, like the contacts, all of this different stuff. And you're going to spend a couple hundred dollars before you get out of there on the glasses or the frames, not even the visit.

50:22 That's where I think, okay, twenty cent TheraBand selling for five bucks, maybe. But if I'm going to sell a five hundred dollar recumbent bike, a thousand dollar elliptical on a home level, that's where I think we can add a two hundred, three hundred dollar transaction that, you know, is profitable. Yeah, people, Gary Vee has said, what's your twenty dollar offer? What's your two hundred dollar offer? What's your two thousand dollar offer? What's your twenty thousand dollar offer? And then if you're Tony Robbins, what's your two hundred thousand dollar offer? We're seeing the Peter Attias of the world go. It's eighty grand a year and I'll be your doctor. And what do you get access? One fifty. Yeah. One fifty. Is it really? Doesn't shock me. Why?

51:02 Because Peter T is like, I got more people outside my door knocking. So I'm going to raise the price until there's a tipping point. And then you're like, Peter T is a jerk. And I'm like, what do you are you mad he's doing it are you mad he's doing it better than you like i need to understand where you're coming from from this angle because you could be doing the same thing and just saying it's it's a thousand dollars or two dollars be like two dollars get you access right that's why people actually do that that's why columbia columbia cd club remember the stupid thing you taped we had to tape a penny to a postcard and mail it back and then check off which cds i wanted And then I got some CDs really quick.

51:43 And then two weeks after that, I got an invoice. And I was like, mom, what's this? She's like, that's the bill. I was like, but these are free. They're a penny I paid for. No, that's the bill. You're getting the bill later. That's how invoices work. I don't know. I feel like twenty twenty six. We're going to see the litmus test be people who are more risk averse will succeed. And the funny part is you you rarely hear from those people. Why? They're too busy succeeding. All the people in the Facebook group going, this won't work. Nobody here, it's confirmation or survivorship bias or reverse survivorship bias. All the people complaining are like, yeah, it doesn't work because none of you are risk averse. Well, where are the non-risk averse people? They're off on success island doing things.

52:25 They don't need to listen to you tell them why the thing they're already doing is working. Even just the business model that Dave talked about where the home health agency trains the technician to be the companion. Again, if I ever scaled anything in real life in the clinic again, I would never hire another licensed therapist. I would find a good human who has a good heart, who wants to help people, who doesn't have two hundred thousand in debt and would say, hey, let me show you how to do the things that I think this person needs done. And I would just train twenty of them. I would love to see a situation, and I've talked to Mike Chua about this, where we develop the funnel from the Philippines, from all of these other countries, where we bring these individuals into our country legally with work visas who are ready to work.

53:18 It's a problem. Yeah, and it's like… Real problems. The money they make here is worth more when they go back home. You train them, you get them to deliver the services at the level we want. They don't need to know what I know. They don't need to know why I chose this intervention. They just need to do it. They just need to know how to do it. The basic mechanics. All right, guys, I don't know if you see what time it is. It's time to dig in to the mailbag. It's mailbag time. Real questions, real people. No bots allowed. So no anonymous mailbag. You can drop in your mailbag question at ptpinecast.com.

54:01 In the bottom right-hand corner, you can actually just do it. It'll let you do a voice thing, and you can talk to me, and then I'll listen to it and bring it on the show, or you can send us an email. This one's for both of you. Jenna in Texas, been a PT for three years, listened to the show, found out about it two years ago. If a cash PT clinic, me, had to generate five thousand dollars in new revenue this weekend, no ads, no evaluations, what would you do? There's a gun to your head. Someone's going to drown your pet bunny unless you get five thousand dollars in new money in in the three day weekend. No ads, no evals. What are you guys doing? What's a fun, scrappy way to get there? What are your thoughts? You want me to go first? Okay.

54:41 So you're going to get your phone. You're going to cold message and cold call as many people as possible. You're going to pitch them an offer. If you need to make five thousand, your offer could be it could be five thousand. But I think five people at a thousand, I think, would be a better offer. Yeah, it could be a five hundred dollar. It could be a two hundred dollar, five hundred dollar, a thousand dollar offer. You you you lay you lay the offer out like the actual deliverable is into the future. So it's like you get whatever you get home visits. You get a home safety check. You get a posture check. You get a home ergonomic assessment. You get Amazon checklist of physical therapy approved products.

55:22 You get this. You get this. It's valued at this. It's valued at this. You value stack it. You value stack it. And it's worth. You can get all this today for seven hundred and fifty dollars, whatever. And then you all of this is like in a in a custom custom exercise program and a in a bespoke mobility program. You get all this and there's more. But wait, there's more. And you get all this stuff and it's, and within the thousand dollars, it could be, you get five visits with me, one visit a week for the next five weeks, but you collect the cash up front and then there's deliverables into the future. So you get the cash up front. You do that enough that the challenge that she, what's her name again?

56:02 What's her first name? Jenna. Jenna. Jenna. Thank you for the question. Thank you for watching. We appreciate it. The challenge is getting outside of your comfort zone. Getting rejection, going through rejection. So you have to cold call, cold message, get people on the phone, get them in person, do it at the library, do it at the Starbucks, do it at wherever people are at right now, at the, you know, at the tree lighting, the Christmas tree lighting or whatever it is. You need to get in front of people, volumes of people. And there are people out there that have your money. You just got to find who's got your money. If you don't think live selling would work, just replay the last forty nine seconds of what Dave just said. He was like value, value, benefit, benefit, benefit, feature, feature, benefit, benefit, future, future success.

56:45 That was that was off. That was off the cuff. We did not plan that at all. Right. That's a pattern. Tony, you have to get five thousand dollars or we come to your house and steal your kids glasses. What do you do? Exactly what Dave did. But I would go the business route. I go B to B. I would I would find businesses that, you know, if we're talking PT businesses like there's accounts receivable out there. If you have thirty thousand or more in accounts receivable, I'll fly out. I'll be on site five thousand for the weekend and I will collect all of that money. I will work through that AR. So you get a, you know, six time return on the investment kind of thing. Yeah, I like that. I would go local sports teams because you really only have to convince the coach.

57:29 Like coaches are like gods now. Dude, the coach said if I really wanted to make that next level team, I needed to come twice a week to do the skills training in whatever sport, insert sport here. You convince a coach. You go into partnership together with that coach, and you say, I will come, and I will be your athletic whatever. I will help you develop these plays. You help them on the ice or in the water or on the mat or on the diamond or on the field. You got the skills training. I will do a parallel strength training, nutrition, whatever it is. You sell one coach. That coach is the god to the children, but definitely the parents. If the coach said, my kid might be a D-I athlete, D-I is now almost...

58:10 higher in value than a professional here's why it's a little more attainable and it's a status thing right like we know less than one tenth of one millionth of one percent is gonna go to the nfl but if you're like could go d one you're like That's probably as high as my kid's going to go. But if we can get them there, that's the top of the mountain. So I would sell to a coach. The only thing modification I make to Dave is I would say, go to, go to, go to warm people. Right. You said cold, cold call, but I think that's what you meant. I meant, I mean, pick your phone up and get, you know, you, you, you have a ton of contacts in your phone. Absolutely. Start with warm contacts, not, not cold calls. Yeah, absolutely. Start with whoever already knows you, likes you and trust you in your neighborhood, in your area, whoever's in your phone.

58:52 Text message, get them on the phone, send out emails, but get people on the phone, get them on FaceTime video calls, get them on Zoom calls, pitch them something. Another secondary offering, because you mentioned coaches, what parents pay the most to try to get their kids to D one. Not only do they, not only do they pay for like the, the private coaches and the strength and conditioning and things like that, they pay for showcases. They pay for the showcases. If that coach is local and that coach is popular, can that coach get local college coaches to come to this showcase and And then you, the physical therapist, can co-organize this showcase.

59:32 The coach is going to bring all the athletes. They have a list of athletes that they help. Maybe they, they better have connections to the local college coaches. You can co you can co, uh, you can co promote it by going to all the local businesses and say, Hey, we're making a, a, whatever, a flyer or whatever with, uh, you know, we're going to put your marketing materials in the goodie bags of all the attendees or whatever. So you can get it in front of other business owners and you could get more exposure for free. This just takes hustle and effort. Yes. I love that. I do like, so now we're live streaming in vertical, like on YouTube. And I do love, there's a ton of trolls. Like, man, I do love seeing LGBTQ podcasts on YouTube.

1:00:15 Well, well done. Which outs yourself. Gotta love the anonymous accounts, man. Gotta love them. I love the one that outs yourself as the douchebag. Hey, thanks for dropping a comment and increasing my exposure. So appreciate it. Triple handshake, Chief. All right, we got less than a minute left, but oh gosh, we almost left money on the table, guys. Here's the deal. Somebody pays you for a sponsorship. You better damn well get it on the air. So we've got CEUtopia. I mean, you've heard of MedBridge. You've heard of physicaltherapy.com. This one's a little bit more crunchy with some mood rings. CEUtopia, tired of CEUs that actually teach you something?

1:00:59 Me too. At CEUtopia, we offer only the most irrelevant, eye-rolling-inducing courses possible on Earth. Learn mindful taping for seasonal allergies and earn twelve hours towards burnout. visit ceutopia.org enroll today and get a free tote bag that says ask me about my non-billable skill set from ceutopia that one wasn't bad we could do better next time uh we'll be back on thursday uh appreciate the time appreciate the effort thanks for the mailbag questions and gentlemen i'll see you guys on on thursday That's it. We're out. Boys, what the hell are you doing? Follow Tony Maritano on YouTube at Total Therapy Solution.

1:01:41 Find Dave Kittle at conciergepainrelief.com and on YouTube at The Dave Kittle Show. And follow Jimmy McKay at PG Podcasts on YouTube, the socials, and wherever you binge podcasts you pretend are for CEUs. And hey, just a reminder, none of this was for advice. This was for entertainment only. Our lawyers say that counts. Thanks, Keith.