“It’s Not About the CEUs” — The Truth About CSM and APTA

0:00 You're listening to the PT Pinecast, where smart people in healthcare come to make noise. Here's your host, Jimmy McKay. Yo, Rebecca Griffith, Jimmy McKay, coming to you live. The calm before the storm. Been talking about APTA CSM, I think very apropos, although I don't know what apropos means, I just hear smart and fancy people say it, to have the Super Bowl. the same week as CSM because I feel like this is our Super Bowl. So that's what I think apropos means. Don't ask me to spell it. I couldn't even Google it. It's just short for appropriate. Oh, apropos. Didn't know that. I think.

0:40 Maybe. I'll Google it later. So Rebecca Griffith, frequent contributor to the show, physical therapist, the EDDPT and APTA Colorado. Colorado? Colorado. I say Colorado because we're super rad. Oh. Not Colorado. I pronounced Oregon wrong. I think because I called it Oregon when we had a conference out there. It's Oregon. I don't actually know what the correct pronunciation of Colorado is, but given that I'm a Colorado native, I feel like I can just say it's Colorado. Say whatever you want. But your duties this week, how many presentations at CSM will you be delivering? Three? Yeah.

1:21 I have two presentations and a poster, and then I'm going to help facilitate a session on disaster response, which is kind of exciting. So is that three? What are the differences between a presentation and a session? Well, the session is really like a working group, I think, having conversations about disaster preparedness for physical therapists. Okay. Let's go through. I'm giving a lot of people, if you listen to the content the last couple of weeks, days, and I think I'll go through till tomorrow, giving away sort of like preview episodes. Talk to some people from PTJ. I talked to two hilarious women who were they were they dressed up for the live stream.

2:02 They dressed up. One was a pickleball paddle. I talked to her last week. Other dressed up like a pickleball. I'm so excited for that, but I think it's at a time when I'm presenting. My first session on Thursday, I am super excited about it. It's called Managing the Unmanageable, the A-Holes of the Emergency Department. You're just excited because you got to say the word A-Holes. I know. And I realistically didn't think it would get approved. Oh, approved. So why is it called A-Holes? How did you justify the use of an A-Hole? Well, because one of the things that I feel like has been a little bit frustrating at CSM in the past is that all of the content around the emergency department is pretty introductory. And I think there was a time when that was necessary, right?

2:44 But last year at CSM, when I was giving presentations, I said, hey, how many of you have never heard of EDPT before? And everybody had heard of it. So it wasn't like we didn't need this. Here's how to start an EDPT practice anymore. so we're thinking about like what intermediate content do people need that's like beyond the basics so the a-holes are going to be like those things that are like harder to manage in the ed whether that's aggression anxiety um i don't want to give away all of the a-holes you have to come to the presentation you can you know because think about it most of the audience is not getting on a plane like eighteen thousand people that's so valid so we're talking about anxiety aggression altered mental status abuse arrogance access, like those are some of the things we're gonna be talking about.

3:29 And like how you identify them, how you work through them, because really top of scope practice, right isn't avoiding the holes, it's leading through them. So we're going to provide an antidote for each a hole, aim for the hole. Don't avoid it. No, we're going to aim right for it. And so my co-presenters for that are Dr. Sarah Nakvato, who's a physical therapist at UW in Wisconsin, and she's the supervisor of the ED therapy services, both PT and OT. And she's worked in several different emergency departments, so has tons of great experience with that. And then Dr. Brandon Morchetti, who is actually a physical therapist, but went back to school and became an emergency department physician.

4:12 He started as a paramedic, went to PT school. When he was in PT school, he's like, hey, I think I want to do more. And then worked as a PT while he went to medical school and then became an ED physician. So he's kind of got two different perspectives. And I was looking at his content yesterday. he is going to call you out. Like talk about like pulling somebody to the top of their scope. He is going to call you out because he knows those limiting PT mindsets and he knows where we could be and where we should be and where that gap is between the PT and the physician and why we need to step into that. He's been on both. He's seen both sides of the a-hole, the inside of the a-hole and the outside of the a-hole. It's a good, it's a good view. Um, When you get one person who's not presenting with you to sit there on the side and just count how many times a hole is said, I'm just like, and then we'll play it over under.

5:03 Do you think it would be over or under thirty one and a half? Maybe under. You're going to say it in the intro, like I'm really playing like a cerebral. yeah yeah well there there's probably sixty slides so i would say then you could maybe i'm gonna say over i'm gonna take the if if the line is set at thirty one and a half i'll take the it's an hour it's ninety minutes Oh, over. Thirty one and a half. So thirty two or more. Yes. The over. Because you're going to you're going to play each of you're going to say in the intro when you're getting everybody quiet and settling everybody down and you're going to, of course, play with it.

5:46 Otherwise, why put it in the title? Right. I don't want you guys to to to skew it, but I would like someone to count and just keep a little hash mark. And then how many times you say a whole professional presentation? Thirty one and a half. I'll take the over. So what's a half an a-hole then, Jimmy? No, no, no, no, no. So I learned this. So when you say thirty one and a half, because this way there's no push, there's no tie. Because if I said thirty one over thirty one, you'd be like, what if it's thirty one? So that's why you'll see. I learned this a couple of years ago, like betting lines of like seven and a half. And I'm like, why did you have to score? And then someone was like, dude, it's because they don't want it to be. You can have a half bath. You can't have half an a-hole. Hi.

6:27 Oh. So have someone count. And then if I win, if it's over, you have to buy me a beer at the hotel bar. And if you win, if it's under, which I do not think it will be, I'll buy the beers. Deal. Did you say where and when this was? I missed that. It's going to be Thursday at a.m. in Hilton Ballroom D. Gosh, I love Ballroom D. It's my favorite ballroom. I feel like I've been, I think this is nine or ten CSMs for me. And I've been to all these cities, but I haven't really been to all these cities. I've been to Ballroom D, you know, Salon F, you know, Lobby Two and all that. Convention Center. Convention Center A. Salon ABX.

7:08 Yeah. And that's fine. All right. So that's one presentation. What's number two? And then I get a little break, but I'm not even leaving the room. So, ten-thirty on Thursday, I'm giving a presentation called Hands-On in the Hospital, and it's about manual therapy and acute care. Wait a minute. You are quite literally back-to-back presentations in the same room? Yes. That has never happened. Has it? That's never happened? It has never happened to me. Last year when I had back-to-back presentations, I had to change buildings, but this time I'm just going to be in that same room. That's got to be some sort of record. Okay, and what's this one about? This one is hands-on in the hospital.

7:49 So it's about using manual therapy in acute care. And so I'm presenting with Dr. Eric Fulmar, who is a professor of orthopedics at Northeastern University, and Dr. Chris White, who is an administrator at UC Health. And so he's a rehab director, like C-suite level director. So the premise is a professor, a clinician, and an administrator walk into a bar. There you go. And we're going to talk about like, we're going to have Eric talk about why, why you should be using manual therapy. I'm going to talk about how to use manual therapy in acute care. And Chris is going to talk really about those administrative barriers. Like what are those like top level situational barriers that discourage physical therapists from practicing at the top of their scope in this setting?

8:33 Got it. And why are you uniquely qualified to talk about this? Maybe something that happened several months ago in Reno. Yeah. And it's ironic because Chris and I have given this presentation before because we both feel really strongly about it. And that was while I was doing my manual therapy fellowship. But I just finished my fellowship last year. And so I'm excited to bring that forward. And part of what I feel passionate about is I feel like most of the people that go and they get their found in their their fellowship in manual therapy they just work in outpatient clinics they don't take that clinical skill they don't take that clinical reasoning that fellowship training and apply it to different areas of physical therapy so my hope is that somebody listening whether they're an acute care therapist an outpatient therapist a home health therapist will be like oh i really could level up my skill set even if it doesn't seem like manual therapy is the skill set that i need i'd like to encourage you to open your mind about that a little bit.

9:30 And maybe it's even just the clinical reasoning that you haven't had yet. I like that. All right. So that's your second presentation back to back Thursday morning. So you're going to get a lot of Rebecca. Yeah. What is the, what now, what is the third thing that you're doing now? Um, I have a poster. Nice. And let me pull up the title of it. So did you put it on screen or no? I don't know if it's ready to go up on the screen. While you're doing that, I would like to talk directly to the audience. Do you know what I do with posters now? I've been doing this for two years. I actually started at AOMT. when I first figured out how to get the ChatGPT app on my phone, I will take a photo of a poster and then I will say, explain this to me like a normal person.

10:14 Give me a temporary language. And then it's like, I'm like, give it to me in three sentences. Give it to me in what, so what, now what? And then I'll say, give me a really interesting, not like, Give me a question to ask the person standing next to it that's thoughtful, that will get them talking. Because I feel a lot of times when you're standing next to a poster, people just come up there, well, why didn't you? And then you're playing goalie. You're like, well, bang. Or they say, tell me about your poster. And I'm like, oh. Which is also a shitty question. So I did that. So I took a picture of it, put it in ChatGPT, and I'm like, give me what, so what, now what? What can we learn? And give me a thoughtful question that would be exciting for the person standing next to the poster to answer. And Rebecca, it works pretty well.

10:56 i'm gonna try it also i did a couple of videos maybe i'll do this again i take a picture of a poster and then i say write me a short form video script in the style of the cat in the hat or eminem or something and then i make that a script and then i explain the video explain the poster in a video because that's where science should go like the same thing that's where science should go i love that why wouldn't science all right so tell me about your poster The poster is called Early Touchpoint, Lasting Impact, Orthopedic Physical Therapy from the Emergency Department to Return to Sport. And the story behind this is there was a student last year at CSM who was at one of the events and experienced an ankle fracture and dislocation at CSM.

11:41 Oh, at CSM. At CSM, at one of the social events, unfortunately. It was a dodgeball injury. I didn't hear about this. Yeah. Uh, so I originally, we had helped to call our content like duck, dive, dodge, you know, but so w the poster really follows his journey from like that immediate triage by physical therapists, because they were the people right there when that ankle broke through that triage in the emergency department, surgical stabilization, and then back to sport. And so a year later, what happened from that point of injury to now. So it kind of explores that. And you'll get to see the examination findings from like point of impact, so to speak, to discharge.

12:26 Okay. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. So I'm kind of excited about that. Good. When is the poster sessions? There's several poster sessions. When is yours? It's at twelve on Thursday. So I finished. You are going to need a power bar on Thursday. Like Thursday. I am. It's unfortunate. Why? Because it's not banging out. I know, but I actually feel like I would rather like spread it out a little bit. Like I don't really get anxious about presenting. So that that doesn't bother me. But yeah. think it would be nice to have like a little recharge break yeah well listen you're on state you're the star of the show so stars there's no uh rest for the weary no rest for the stars wicked uh so that's three and then you said the working session what when is that what is it where is it what when where okay so that is i think it's through the academy of home health Good.

13:23 And it is an APTA emergency and disaster management group. So it's like a working group. And that is through home health, huh? That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Which I actually think really makes a lot of sense. If you think about if there's like a massive disaster. Oh, you're going to go to them. Yeah. And it's also folks from the VA are participating in that people from all different academies are participating in it. We're just, uh, that's who's hosting it. So it's going to be, it's going to be really exciting. Um, who's with you on that? So I am, I'm making them the physician that's presenting with me go. Cause I, he does, he coordinates disaster response for the entire state of Arkansas.

14:04 What is his name again? Brandon more Shetty. That's cool. So we're going to pull him into that. And then Chris White, who I'm also presenting with, he's a military PT. So I'm going to leverage some of his expertise in that group as well. But then there's a lot of great PTs that are participating in that. Megan Mitchell, who's a disaster relief PT, is going to help lead that. Yeah. And then... James Gosney, who is really coordinating this, he's a PTA, but he's also a physician. So he's an MD, PTA, MPH. So he's got a very, very cool background and he works for the VA. And so he's really pulling this together. So it's going to be talking about the role of the physical therapist and physical therapist assistant in disaster management.

14:46 Okay. Okay. I am writing down a note to come back to because as this episode is titled Physical Therapist with Limited Attention Span, I want to make sure I come back to this because I have an idea. But let's play a game of – or not really a game. What is on your not being the star list? What are you like, I'm going to see this and why? What are you like, boom, it's on my calendar? Yeah, so Thursday night, I would like to invite everybody to the emergency department happy hour. Oh, where's that? So that is going to be at a brewery. And I meant to pull it up when you asked me about it. It is a Ballast Point Brewing in Anaheim at seven thirty p.m.

15:27 on that Thursday. So I'll be ready for a drink. And I can't wait to have that conversation. And as the screen says, great PT conversations on tap. Best conversations happen at happy hour. I'm going to steal your line for that. And that's where we're going to be. good um but other things that i'm excited about going to i'm really i haven't had a chance to really look at the sessions that i'm going to but i am participating in pt in the community which is community service in anaheim so i'm looking forward to some of those activities and then there's a lot of ed specific content that i'm looking forward to and i posted that on my instagram so if anybody's like how do i find the ed content you can find it on my instagram what is so for people who don't know Feating the community.

16:09 How would you present it to someone who's like, I have no idea what those words together mean? Patrick Berger, one of the people. I feel like he's more of a face. Patrick Berger really created this. And it was really this concept of we're bringing eighteen thousand physical therapists to the community. what are we doing for the community? And we talk about transforming society. And I always say, how are we going to ever do that if we don't go to society? So this is Patrick's way of getting physical therapists to society. And so there are a lot of events that are offsite within the actual community. And then there are some events that you can participate in at, at CSM. Like, so I'm going to be making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a shelter.

16:52 and hygiene kits for a shelter. And so those things will go out to those community resources, but there are some other events as well where you can actually volunteer, but I think those are full already. Yeah, so it's a way for PTs to give back a structured, what I think PT in the community really is is a logistics operation that you then get to plug in and you're the energy that runs the engine, right? So Patrick is like, I'll find the need, I'll find the who, with the what and then I'll show you the how, where, and the when. You show up, you do, because we need doing. I had a similar... driver uh with party with a purpose which was an event i did uh in san diego a couple years ago which was i was looking at csm saying this is awesome look how i mean dude i look i love me a good party right like but at the end of it i was like what did we change what did we do when we're done and next week and the uh you know united auto workers come to town and they use the conference center did we change the local community at all?

17:55 Like, is it just like another group coming in and check in and check out and dinner reservations? So party with a purpose for me was like, I know these companies are going to spend truckloads of money. And this is great. Like that's an economic boost to the community. My pitch was I can spend your money better. So if you're going to spend two thousand, five thousand, ten thousand dollars on after hours stuff, I'll spend it. I'll take your six grand and your eleven grand and your twenty grand and your this and your this. I'll put it together like a snowball. And then I rented out the San Diego Children's Museum. I found a badass eighties band. I got liquor, I got food.

18:37 So I raised, I think, one hundred and twenty five thousand spent ninety. And that part was fun. I was like, let's do this. But the goal was the goal was throw a badass party like I had to hit that goal. Boom. Secondary goal was see how much money can be left over to give away. Now, some people would say flip them. My purpose was the purpose. but party with a purpose in that order, you have to hit the party first or else when, not if, but when I do this again and I knock on the door of all the people, the sponsors, it wasn't hard to get people to come eat, drink, be married.

19:18 That wasn't the hard part. The hard part is getting the money. But now I have a track record. Cause I was like, remember that thing I promised to do and did, I'm going to do that again And if you have the budget, you're gonna give it to me, probably, or at least I have a chance. So anyway, it had to be a bad-ass party and it had to have a purpose. So we gave away thirty grand or whatever the difference is between ninety and one hundred twenty-five to three different organizations. I let the three biggest donation givers pick choose your own adventure i i it's not that i didn't care what the charity was it had to be a charity that's what i cared about i don't care what one so a a uh academy of leadership and innovation did the uh one more wave which taught wounded vets how to surf uh academy of leadership uh geriatric academy of geriatric physical therapy donated it to a geriatric research study for the foundation for physical therapy research.

20:17 So they took their money and gave it to a research nonprofit, which I'm also on the board of trustees. So I was pretty excited about that. That wasn't my call though. And then the third ATI has their own ATI foundation that gives away free pro bono care. So that fueled hundreds, if not thousands of PT interactions paid for it. So that was pretty cool. So I'm not officially announcing it now because who the hell listens to a podcast anyway? You're not listening. It's just me and Rebecca talking to each other. I'll be in Philly is next year. I'm doing it again. I'm doing it again. Cause now my head's a little more clear personally. I had some other family stuff going on last two years. I'll do it again. I'll do it in Philly. Party with a purpose to the sequel. It's back. Well, I would encourage you to like make ways for little people like me to be involved because I am a sponsor of PT in the community.

21:04 Yeah. Am I like their highest dollar sponsor? Of course not. But like, I feel like my little contribution is still welcome. So yeah. Well, then I talked to this. You and I were drinking with Patrick a few weeks ago. I'm like, well, then why don't I make a portion of Party with a Purpose fuel the next year's PT in the community? Like I'll always work a year ahead instead of I hope the money will come. Here it is, you know, eleven and a half months in advance. So I'm in charge. I am the board. There's no board of Party with a Purpose. It's just a network with a microphone. I'll make part of the proceeds be PT in the community. We'll just do it. You can just do things.

21:45 I love that. You're allowed to just do things. And then people will be like, oh, you're not allowed to do that. And I'm like, you're not the boss of me. That's actually a valid defense. Like seven-year-olds have it figured out. When someone's like on LinkedIn, you can't do that. And I'm like, well, you're not the boss of me. So I am going to do that. I am going to do that. Can I tell you one more thing that I'm excited about at CSM? You can tell me lots of things that you're excited about at CSM. We got lots of time. So I'm going to do an interview with some folks at CSM, and I'm trying to figure out what the title of it is, but they're really highlighting Filipino-trained physical therapists.

22:27 Oh, yeah. And I'm really excited about that. And one of the things that's going to be part of the interview is that I get to try snaps. snacks yes i get to try a bunch of different snacks from the philippines how exciting is that i mean honestly you had me in snacks i mean i've been interviewed by you multiple times and i've never once gotten a snack so i bring alcohol though just gonna leave that there with but you've never once presented me with a flight of snacks that's true who's who is who are these people who are the people Ben Aguila is going to interview me, and I was texting with him. Aguila. Aguila. Sorry, Ben. It's okay.

23:08 I realized the other day that his podcast that he used to do for his clinic was the first podcast I was ever on. Really? Yeah. Yes. And maybe two people listen to it. Like, I don't know. I don't know how many people listen to it, but like, I just remember I was so scared to be on that. And that was probably the first podcast I was ever on. So I'm excited to be interviewed by Ben again and like have that kind of come full circle. Yeah. So you're going to do that. So you're interviewing them. They're interviewing me because they're sharing some information around APTA and they're sharing information around the emergency department and they're part of the Academy of Leadership and Innovation.

23:49 ALI. Okay, good. That's one other thing that you're excited about. Anything else? I mean, this is sort of our Super Bowl. It's part learning. It's part social event. I mean, you have to, saying it's not is just disingenuous. It is. Well, you know, Wednesday, I'll spend the entire day in meetings as part of my role as APTA president. And really what happens there is the first part of the day is leadership meetings. And that involves like the board. It involves all the chapter presidents, all the academy presidents, all the people that are on appointed committees so that all of those like leaders are in the same room. That's a smart idea. It is. And I like... I think so.

24:29 And they really deliver some information, but also receive information. And usually there's a panel on a specific topic that's really important and you get to hear from other chapters or other academies. And then in the afternoon, it's just chapter presidents. And what I like about that is like, realistically, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm showing up and I'm doing my best. And so to have an entire room of other people that are doing the same thing, the like learning process, is so helpful and the brainstorming is really helpful and the like, Hey, what are you doing? And how's that going? And what did you do that worked? And like, what are you doing? That's not working so that we're all like not building the plane while we're flying it. Yeah.

25:09 Because while there is some training, there's not a lot of guidance. No. And you all pretty much have similar problems. I mean, I'm sure there's some differences, but, They do kind of divide us up sometimes by size. So like super small chapters versus midsize versus large size chapters because we have different problems. What would you consider Colorado? Where are you? I don't know the math. So California, Florida, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Texas, probably. Yeah, those are some of the bigger ones. And then you've got your states like Wyoming and South Dakota and stuff that are like little smaller ones. I would say that the smaller ones are probably – just strategic it's harder for them to solve any of the problem like because because they're so you know because like they're so you know if you're sparse like the resource it's just less resources so you're out resourced you know what i mean more money more problems but like less money more problems also right less money less solutions like yeah you know yeah maybe that's better and less people like less people to pull from and when you think about running a volunteer board yeah your best resource are volunteers and so how many people are on your board Maybe fifteen, I feel like.

26:24 Is that normal? Well, we have like an executive committee and then we have a full board, but we have like, it's just based on our bylaws. But I actually think that the people that are in the room at those board meetings are great. I don't disagree with that. I mean, like the roles, I'm not, and the people obviously are great, but like the specific roles that are represented in there, it makes lighter work. Yeah, more hands make light work. And then we've talked about this before, but maybe it'll be an update. What are the big strategic goals for Colorado? And where are you in the presidency? It's three years, so you're halfway. It's four years. There's a president-elect year.

27:05 And so I am halfway now. So I did my president-elect year, my first year as president. So this is my second year. So I graduate in the fall of twenty twenty seven. Got it. Our biggest, our legislative season just started. So our biggest legislative priorities right now are MPPR, which people are familiar with from a Medicare perspective, our state tried to do that for Medicaid last year. And we are codifying this year into law that they're not allowed to do that. So hopefully that will be a thing that will prevent them from ever going back to that because the Division of Insurance was kind of like, well, we could just do that whenever we want. Let's not do that.

27:45 And then the other piece we want to practice focus on a little bit of practice expansion. We are going for sports physicals to be one of the health care providers that can perform sports physicals and that We're doing that for a variety of reasons. One is increased quality, increased access for our athletes. Two, it's a revenue stream for our therapists. Three, like there's no reason if you look at the form why a physical therapist isn't trained to complete that. Chiropractors in our state are able to do that. So we've been collaborating with all the different health care providers behind the scenes to try and move that forward. And I think we'll be successful with that. We've gotten a little bit of pushback. And then this last week, our occupational therapist actually went to the legislature for dry needling and we've been supporting them with that.

28:30 All these things that come up in Facebook comment sections about the issues that you're talking about, like I'm glad that they're there, but that's not how they get changed. Like no legislator is in the random facebook group for pts that you're in reading the comments that you can rage as hard you could make as many great points as you want that's not how change happens i'm very sorry but and the other thing what i'll tell you is frustrating to me about those comment sections is that realistically the APTA is just volunteers like me, people with three kids and three jobs who are going to meetings five times a week, trying to move these legislative priorities forward, trying to protect your practice, trying to also on top of that, offer you CEUs and discounts and other things like that.

29:20 But realistically, like the work is happening for you, whether you see that work or not. And sometimes I will tell you as a volunteer, reading those comments sections is really discouraging. And it makes me feel like the work isn't doesn't matter to our members even though i know that it does yeah yeah i mean i'll give you advice i mean i get sucked up in comment sections i've taken i take crap all the time but that means i'm saying something that matters right like because if you if you're not if you don't have anybody who dislikes what you're doing it means you're not doing anything no no rock boat no ripples um those people were never going to be in the arena anyway like i would encourage you to read fd you've read fdr's man in the arena right Are you kidding me?

30:05 Oh, you'll love it. It's a poem or a short story, but he's like, I'll write that down. It's all about, it's, it's the, it's not, it's not the critic who counts. It's the man in the arena. It's like, you're in the arena. So it's like, you can lob tomatoes from the top roof. All you know, the top row, all you want. You're not in the arena. Like, have you fought? You can have opinions are like a holes. Hi. Oh, bring it back. Everybody's got one. And it's usually full up something. Well, I have to tell you, I've actually been really getting great feedback from our members lately. And even people who are non-members, like I ran into a member of mine at Graham Sessions and she was like, thank you for what you're doing.

30:45 Like we can see the difference that it's making. Your board is extraordinary. And I would absolutely agree with that. So, and I had another incident where I was at a PT clinic with my son and another physical therapist came up to me and he's like, oh, I heard you're the APTA president. And I was like, Oh no. Like I like braced myself. I was like, first of all, this is kind of awkward timing and I'm not like in APTA mode. And it kind of like made me a little bit nervous. And I just like, I was like ready for it. And he said, I just want to say thank you. Like, thank you so much for all the hard work. And I was like, wow. Cause usually those are not the comments, right? You usually get more of the complaints. So I was thrilled to go home and email my entire board and say the work you're doing matters and people are noticing it.

31:30 And thank you. Like, thank you for your time and effort. So there's a parallel too, right? Yesterday was, I don't know if you saw this. There was a football game yesterday. It was a, I saw that a bad bunny concert. It's televised. It was a football game played before and after a bad buddy. There was an alternate halftime show. Here's the thing. Great. Yeah. There is also an alternate version of APTA. And here's what I think. Great. Great. Great. I have taken crap because I ask questions. Jimmy's a question asker. You are. I was a question asker at six, at sixteen, at twenty-six. I have a degree, this will shock you, in journalism.

32:12 How did that fit? Right? I got my new NPR shirt. You can figure out what AF stands for. So I am all about the questions. And the answers. So if you want to have a different Super Bowl show, great. Great. Do that. If you're an alternate version of APTA, great. Do that. Here's my only rub. If I ask you a question and you give me a non-answer, I'm not going to stop asking that question. Yes. I'm not going to do it. If you don't like the APTA, don't join. Right now, I have a poll going on on LinkedIn and Facebook right now. I'm just asking people, are you an APTA member?

32:53 Yes or no? Just it. That's it. And then if they go in the comment section, I did not prompt it, but people go in the comment section and they say why they're not or why they are. And then I just simply keep asking questions. One of them was like, I've been a member since leaving and i said awesome why no but hold on don't cover your face why and she's like well i was brought into it as a student because i was told i had to and i own a business now and i don't feel that they're doing enough for reimbursement and i wrote back that sounds fair let me ask you this what was your expectation What did you think when you write the check every year? Now it's just auto deposit or auto withdrawal, whatever.

33:35 And she was like, well, I think that's fair. I guess I don't have an expectation. And as a PT, I would say, you didn't know the goal, but you definitely know you didn't hit it. Well, we had an event for early career professionals and students the other day and we had breakout tables and obviously my table was talking about the APTA and one of them said, hey, like I've been a member, but I don't use any of the things. Ah, wait, what? And she was like, why should I still be a member if I'm not really using those? What'd you say? I said, all of those things that you're talking about, those are sprinkles. The real value is in what the APTA does for you when you're not looking, right?

34:22 No, hold on. I mean, just let me finish. Like all the advocacy work that happens for you, whether you're using your benefits or not, you're using your perks or not, like all of that is happening for you, protecting your license, progressing your profession, like all of that, that you don't need to even participate in. All of that is, I think, the most meaningful benefit. The rest of it are sprinkles. Yes, yes, yes. But if you're going to say sprinkles, say cake for the rest of it. Listen, you're there for the sprinkles. You're skipping the cake. I know Sprinkles get attention, like, you know, twenty percent off on New Balance sneakers and fifteen percent off on Enterprise rental car, which I've never used any of these things.

35:04 It's people. The answer is it's a group. APTA has done a large lift of getting a bunch of people together who have similar problems and similar gripes and similar situations. That's the value. Hard stop. If you're not. Here's the thing. I said this on LinkedIn the other day. I think to the woman who was like, well, I have my membership, but I don't get anything out of it. I was like, does this parallel a little bit? Like I have a library card, but I never got a book. And then I'm mad at the library. Cause I'm not smarter. Pause for my dramatic effect. They're still smarter. Like they still are consuming the cake, whether they know it or not. Right, right, right, right, right. So that's the thing about the library versus APTA.

35:47 APTA is doing other things. You might not see them. It might not be fast enough for you. All valid, I guess. But like, I like the library analogy, which is like, we gave you access to gestures wildly, all of this. And what did you do? And you're like, well, nothing. I thought you were just going to read it for me. And it's like, well, that's not how reading works. Not yet anyway. I mean, we'll be at the Matrix pretty soon where we'll just be able to download abilities. We'll be there soon. And we still are reading for you. Right, right, right. Realistically, we are. We are also doing that. We just may not be reading the way that you like, at the volume you like, at the pace you like, or the book that you want. I was in front of APTA. I did a conclave for APTA New Jersey.

36:29 I did a thing there for a couple of weeks ago. And at the end, one of the students, it was actually asking Ben Aguila, why should you be a member of APTA or something like that? Or where do I fit? It was a very smartly asked question by a student. Very well asked. And Ben, of course, is a drum beater. That's why I like Ben. Ben's like, I love APTA. And after Ben was done, I grabbed the microphone and I was going to shock you. But I said, I don't think you should be an APTA member. And the room was aghast. And then I said, unless because I knew I had their attention, unless I want you to go take a look around before you drop five hundred bucks. What do they do? Be a informed consumer.

37:09 Yeah. Hey, what do you do here? Look around. You mean to tell me there's nothing you can find in fifty state chapters, fifty one state chapters because I'm counting D.C. I see you. Eighteen components and a gajillion little sigs in every one of the components and every one of the states. You can't find three things worth five hundred dollars. Well, let me tell you about somebody that came to the event as a man walked in and I was like, okay, he seems older than like the average age in here. And I struck up a conversation with him and he is from Venezuela. So he sort of had to immigrate to the United States under duress. Right. And it was a physical therapist in Venezuela.

37:52 And so he's going, he's doing his transitional DPT. But in the meantime, he got a license to work as a CNA and he got a license to work as a medical interpreter. And he saw the advertisement for our event on one of the PT programs pages. He's not an APTA member because he's not a physical therapist yet. He was like, I didn't know I could be an APTA member as a student. And so he's gonna graduate, I think in June with his transitional doctorate and like is doing all of this. So when we talk about like, getting out of it, what you're putting into it. Like he's just showed up here and like done the most.

38:33 And it was so nice to have him in this room with early career professionals and students and be like, this is where you can, what you can do. I did a video not long ago and took crap for it where I compared it to buying a gym membership. No, I liked that video a lot. I was just like, so you are mad at the gym that you don't belong to or don't work out. And somehow it's the gym's fault. You don't have muscles. Like I have looked and looked and maybe I'm wrong. Listen, I love saying I'm wrong because it happens so infrequently. No, I love saying I'm wrong. Show me where APTA said we're going to solve all your problems. Yeah, they don't. Maybe not that I've seen. Prove me wrong. Show me. Show it to me. Talk to Kyle Covington.

39:15 Kyle's president. He's the biggest drum beater right now. Kyle's not out there saying we solve all your problems. No. We're trying to solve some of these big ones. You don't like how fast it's going? Have you ever seen A Few Good Men with Jack Nicholson? Have I seen A Few Good Men? It's like one of my favorite movies ever. You know that part where he's like, Pick up a weapon and stand a post. On the wall, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about that Jack Nicholson quote a lot when it comes to APTA. We're happy to have you on the wall. But also, you don't have to be a Marine. If you don't like it, don't join. If you like it, join. but no joining means you have to do to get out.

39:57 And that's okay. If you're like, I want to just drop my money in the bucket and leave the woman. One of the women yesterday in my, in my comment section was like, I just sort of like being a member. Cause I like being a member. Is that a valid reason? Yes. But for her expectations are aligned. Yep. I'm going to give this money. And I feel, look, I got my NPR AF shirt on. I give money to NPR. Why? Cause I like it. I want to keep doing. Do am I sitting here every day going, ah, did I get my eleven and a half cents worth of NPR today? No, I like write the check. I walk away. I'm like, good. Do that. I don't I am a member of APT because I don't want to do legislative things. I don't I don't like them.

40:38 I don't like them. You would think I would want to be in politics because I have a strong desire to get people like me. But I feel like it's such a fake game. There's not a lot of authenticity, I will tell you. That's the problem. I'm like, I see you're being fake and then I have to be fake and we're just going to out, we're going to, it's a fake cold war. And I get it. It's a game. Don't hate the player. Hate the game. I don't want to play it. Someone else does. Here's my nickel. Go play. I don't want to do it. What I have found in this role is that when I am meeting with like the presidents of the other associations, like chiropractic association, the athletic trainers, the occupational therapists, like the authenticity is there. And when we strip those barriers between like, well, we'll have their lobbyists talk to our lobbyists and that legislator talks.

41:22 Like when I go directly to the people and I'm like, hey, I feel like this might be a conflict. How can we have this conversation? So I went to happy hour last week with the athletic trainers in Colorado. Of course you would. Because the best conversations happen at happy hour. Yeah. And I was like, tell me all your concerns about PTs doing sports physicals. And we went through them one at a time. And we had a beer and some really good French fries. And in the end, I felt really good about how that went. So that like, I found the authenticity. Happy hour isn't where the problem is solved, but it's where the idea might be born that eventually leads to the process of the execution of solving the idea. That's it. I'm very sorry, people. There's no curtain.

42:03 Where you can have it without like following Robert's rules of order and not like playing hearsay through people who don't actually do the work. So I've been really happy about that. So I'm going to turn this conversation back to CSM for a minute. Yeah, we should. Okay. So. What do you feel like? I saw that you made a post the other day about like what people should know if they're going to CSM for the first time. Did I? I did that? What did I say? Help me out. I think it was like drop your advice for people. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I know you have really good advice about that and I want to talk about it. All right. So this is a social event wrapped in conference.

42:45 Yes. So number one, get a little, it's a buffet, get a little bit of everything. Don't go there for one thing. I mean, that's just my advice though. Take everything with a grain of salt, do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. So when you're planning out your conferences, there's, you know, there's eight or ten hours worth of conferences, stuff a day. Don't, don't plan to go to ten hours, go to like six. Like you need to be a human and do other things and have lunch, you know. So number one, go find Like your A sessions. When you're looking through the bajillion of sessions, find your one or two a day that are like, cannot miss, this is what I need. Yeah. And then line up a couple of B sessions and maybe a C session.

43:26 Now some of these sessions should be outside of your area. If you're an acute care physical therapist, you should go to something in, I'm making this up, women's health or pelvic health, sorry, or ortho, whatever. Do the weird because there's a straight line between any, any two points, not just some, there's a straight line. You'll find something. Well, and we silo too much. And one thing... Oh, the irony of it calling... Sorry, you froze there for a second. The irony of it calling combined sections, meaning we come together and then split apart into sections, is not lost on me. Right, but I think of it as an opportunity for you to open the door of each of those sections. Yeah, there's not even doors.

44:07 It's just a doorway. So lock in what you're doing. Do something weird, a little bit of nonsensical. It'll make sense. If you sit in a bad session and you realize this isn't for you in the first five minutes, leave. You're not going to piss. I'd rather have you leave. If you're in my session, you're like, not for me. Great, not for you. Find something. I want you to be happy. It's like dating a girl in high school. If you're not with me, go find happy. practical advice you're a human you're gonna crash bring snacks eat often drink often uh it's like a casino you're not gonna know what time it is or what day it is or what time zone it is meet people again it's a people game with rapid business card i don't even do that i just go what's your linkedin i i use an electronic business card and it works really well you could do that Bring a battery charger.

44:58 Yes. Like a portable battery charger. Bring granola bars. And if you're a Diet Coke drinker. Bring your own. Bring your own Diet Coke. Most convention centers have a contract with Pepsi. Really? See, I don't even notice that. Smart money move is land and do a DoorDash run or an Uber run to a grocery store and buy everything you think you'll need for three days and put it in your room because mathematically, it's going to play out. the lines for coffee are bananas so get like an iced coffee and put in your hotel fridge uh snacks everywhere make as many friends as you can make as many friends that don't make sense as that do make sense um and then we i would what were you gonna say i was gonna say i know that people are like well if this session's on demand i can watch it later Here's the thing about that.

45:51 If you're really interested in that session, I think it's always better live and you can't talk to the presenter on on demand. So if it's a session you're really interested in and you want to ask that presenter questions, go to the session. Don't just say, oh, I'll watch it on demand later. Because also, will you? I always tell myself that. I'm going to watch it on demand, and then I never do. Yeah. It's like taking screenshots of things or pictures of slides. You're going to be like, what? I don't know what. Listen, I can listen to Foo Fighters anytime I want because I have Apple Music. But if Foo Fighters were in town... Exactly. As a speaker, I want you to ask questions. I want you to come up to me.

46:33 I'm like, I'm in the room to do that. I'm in the room to connect with you. I'm in the room to answer your questions. I'm in the room to give you this content. I want nothing more than to do that. So you're not a bother. You get up at the microphone, ask the question, come up afterward. We're not scary. Questions are good. Make it about you is not good. More of a comment than a question, really. More of a comment is not a question. Did you see that reel that was like this guy lifting weights and throwing really big, heavy things? And it says, just out here training for when my friend's giving a presentation and someone stands up at the mic and says, I have more of a comment than a question. Yeah, get out.

47:14 I like that energy. I like it. But the average like because I like live and I like going weird, I can do it. I mean, lots of people can do it, not just me, but like be respectful of not not it's not your comment. More comment than question is not disrespectful to the presenter. Correct. It's disrespectful to everybody else in the room who wants to hear the answer to a question of the presenter or presenters. That's why it's not cool. Right. I don't mind you giving your comments and your thoughts. I'm more than happy to hear that, but maybe come give me the comment afterward so that the people who have questions can ask that question to the room. Correct.

47:54 There's not unlimited time. Right. There is a lot happening after hours. There's a lot happening now. APTA has, I think, done a pretty good job of doing weird stuff. There's a puppy park, Bark Park, Yeah, I wasn't cool enough to even get any time in there last year. They just hand you dogs? Yeah. You're not allowed to take them home. I just want to stress that again. We had someone try to leave with a golden doodle. I made that up. I'm only kidding. That didn't happen. But they're just dogs. It's a stress reliever. It's just dogs. There's also a gym for demonstration or just to get your swole on. Like, just do it. There's rogue racks and med balls and just get all sweaty.

48:38 There's headshots. They're doing headshots again. I mean, I don't know. In this day and age, if you need a headshot, if they have that. So there's sessions, there's pickleball. Drew Contreras would be very mad at me if I didn't point out that he rented out or arranged a giant pickleball, multi-pickleball Thunderdome sort of situation. And then, of course, there's after hours. I know it's going to surprise you. There are food and drink things after hours. Every hotel bar, it will be full. Every restaurant within three and a half miles. Lots of people will be going over to Disneyland. I got yelled at in my comment section because I called it Disney World. I apologize to the Disney people. Well, it's Disneyland because it's LA.

49:20 And then it's Disney World because it's Orlando. I know. I just learned that like a year ago. All right. So what's your favorite thing to get in the convention hall? Useful things. Like I don't need another forty eight pens. So I've useful thing is like like battery chargers or things I'd be like, Oh yeah. Like you see it. And like, I saw somebody giving away like a phone tripod last year, like a little fold up phone tripod. I was like, that's cool here. You know, uh, some, uh, fusion. They're like a staffing company. They always give away weird stuff. They gave away at avocado. It was like a stress ball, like a squeezer thing.

50:01 That's cute. So I thought that was cute. I really was just going to say popcorn. Oh, food. Yeah, food. I like the popcorn people. They'll have like coffee stations and food stations. Take a venture. I just always go to the popcorn vendor and then I slowly walk up and down the rows and like take little pieces of chocolate to put in my bag. Yeah, it's Valentine's week again. So it's going to be a lot of... I'm wearing... So I'm live streaming on Thursday and Friday. I might be doing it Saturday, but definitely Thursday, Friday. I bought, purchased... A red tuxedo. Oh, I cannot wait.

50:42 So I have a red tuxedo, black lapels. I am... That's my outfit. I usually, on the first day, I wear a ridiculous outfit. So everybody's like, who's that? People who know me just sort of nod and they go, that's Jimmy. He's just being weird over there. And then other people are like, who's that guy? And then usually the person next to them is like, that's Jimmy. He's being weird over there. But my job is attention, so I will wear a weird outfit. It has to make sense. I can't just be wearing – I can't just dress like a pickleball for no reason. I'm here for it. And then I don't even know what I'm wearing on Friday. It doesn't matter. I'll blend in Friday, but – Oh, because we're live streaming on Friday. I was going to like match my outfit to go with this tuxedo. No. Now what am I going to do?

51:24 PTA Plus is saying I still use a slingback beach chair phone holder. I got in the exhibit hall last time I was in Anaheim. That's a decade ago. Oh, so it's a it's a small beach chair that looks that's that's funny. That's like a small little like that's. Yeah. Yeah. Corny things like that. Cute. Keech. I'm excited about it. I'm leaving tomorrow and I am going to go to Disneyland before my meetings. Good for you. What, what's your ride of where, what part of Disneyland are you like a Star Wars? Are you with this? I'm like a big Disneyland person. And frankly, my kids aren't either. My kids are like, let's go to the beach and like do outdoor things. So I have not been a lot. I'm a space mountain girl though. Like I have like fond memories of space mountain.

52:07 So that's my goal. Space mountain. Space mountain. And like a dual webbing. I'm going to see, I think I'm going to see one of my best friends from high school. He lives in LA with his kids. His kids have a PT. He has a PT and he's like, Hey, are you coming to a conference? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, my PT is going. And I'm like, awesome. I'm going. So I'm going to see my buddy Paco who lives forty, thirty, forty minutes away. He lives like two miles away, but it's forty minutes because it's Anaheim in L.A. So that's why it's going to take so long. I'm looking forward to the people I hang out with every year. I'm looking forward to seeing the people that I interact with on LinkedIn and whatnot because I'm a dork like that in person and having a beer with those people. I might do a couple of impromptu live things from bars.

52:49 I'll play a game called I invented a new game called Truth or Drink. So I'm going to ask you a question. You got to tell me the truth right off the bat, or you just take a drink and we'll just do that until the alcohol runs out. Yikes. Yikes. Parting shots for today. I think parting shot for CSM is it's about the people and not the content. It's all the, well, the people, even the content is made by. The people. So it's about, it's not about the CEU. It's about who you see and who sees you. Woo. Did you make that up? Did you just make that up? You've made that up. Say it again. That's good. It's not about the CEUs.

53:30 It's about who you see and who sees you. Woo. How am I going to top that? You got me. That's a good one. you get out what you put in. If you go and you're a passive passenger princess, you're going to get nothing out of this. If you are an active participant, you will get active participant rewards. Luck favors the people who take the leap. I will see you in just a couple of days, Rebecca Griffith. Sounds good. That's it for this one, but we're just getting warmed up. Smash follow, send it to a friend, or crank up the next episode. Want to go deeper? Hit us at pgpinecast.com.

54:13 Or find us on YouTube and socials at pgpinecast. And legally, none of this was advice. It's for entertainment purposes only. Bullshit! See, Keith? We read the script. Happy now?