Graham Sessions Unplugged: Reimbursement, Students & the Future of PT

WEBVTT

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You're listening to the P.T.

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Pinecast,

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where smart people in healthcare come to

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make noise.

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Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

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Here's your host, Jimmy McKay,

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still pushing buttons as we go live.

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And we're live.

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There we are.

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Sky Donovan, Mike Ring,

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welcome to your live stream from Graham

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Sessions.

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Thanks, Jimmy.

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This is your first Graham Sessions?

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It is, yeah.

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This is your first?

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My first.

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Look at this.

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Very odd to me.

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That's weird.

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Because you're very elbow-rubby in APTA.

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But I don't own a private practice.

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Oh, that's a good point.

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Yeah, but you're a big thinker.

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I like to think I think.

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I think you're right.

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We're going very Dr. Seuss here.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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So that is a good point.

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I just see I know you're in academics,

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but to me,

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you're sort of everywhere in PT.

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But Mike, background,

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back of the baseball card.

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How long you own your practice?

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Sixteen years.

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Yeah.

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Sixteen years.

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Good for you.

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Our second location, actually,

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December four.

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Can you see it from here?

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You can't quite close.

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It's not close enough to see.

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Close enough.

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All right, so why'd you come?

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How was this framed for you as a

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practice owner?

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I was thinking about this.

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A lot of practice owners in there.

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Leaving a practice for a day is hard.

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Your business is going on.

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So how was this framed for you to

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come to something like this?

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What did you expect,

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and then what has been delivered?

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To be honest,

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this was the first time I knew this

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existed.

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I literally had no idea that Graham

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Sessions was a thing.

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I got an email from private practice

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section.

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And so I don't know if it was

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because I was at the past couple of

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PPS meetings or how I got on the

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list, but I did.

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I looked at the content.

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I was like, actually, you know what?

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That's kind of cool.

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And it actually worked out great because I

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don't see patients on Friday anyway.

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Jackpot.

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And then Sky, APJ vice president,

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you get brought to lots of different

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things in the corner of PT.

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Being in PT for a long time, right,

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in the profession.

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Are you calling me old?

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No.

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Walked right into that one.

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Good.

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But no,

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you've been in PT for how long?

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Been around a long time.

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Uh, not as long as you think.

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Orthopedics, academics?

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Yeah, I mean,

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I've been a PT since two thousand three.

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Okay.

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So twenty three years.

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So, uh,

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what were you expecting and what are you

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seeing from, I mean, you're like,

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you're sort of like the down the middle

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person this is designed for and you're

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not,

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which means you're both going to look at

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what is going on here differently.

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So what did you expect was going to

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happen?

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What did I expect was going to happen

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has happened,

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was that I was going to hear totally

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different perspectives than I usually

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hear.

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So I love conferences like this because

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I'm not exposed to this kind of lens

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and thought about their everyday lives.

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And also the meta,

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like how can we change things so they're

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better for the future?

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So that has been really good for me.

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And I got to meet a ton of

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people that I've never met before.

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So I always love that.

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This isn't the area you're normally in.

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Yeah, so I get to listen a lot,

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which is so cool.

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When you looked at the agenda,

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as a practice owner, what made you say,

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ooh, yeah, let's drill down on this.

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That's exciting.

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Yeah, so there were a couple things.

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One was the opportunity to hear a little

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bit more about

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the APTA's decisions specifically with DEI

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stuff, right?

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So that was very interesting to me.

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And then a couple of other pieces were,

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you know,

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talking about where we are with

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reimbursement, honestly,

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where we are with reimbursement,

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how we're going about changing things,

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what our plan is,

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what are some of the options.

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One of the things that I'd like to

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hear a little more, quite honestly.

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That's my next question.

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Keep going, keep going.

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We've talked a lot about the what's wrong.

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and I'd like to hear a little bit

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more about here's some options.

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Here's some solutions.

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So we know it's wrong.

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We know reimbursement's declining.

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We know we're having a harder and harder

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time.

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We're getting squeezed.

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We're one of the very few industries that

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is not tied to inflation.

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I can raise my prices all I want.

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I'm not going to get paid a dime

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more just because inflation went up.

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So how do we combat that?

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So I'd like to hear a little bit

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more of that kind of conversation,

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and maybe we will today or tomorrow.

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In what format?

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Like people who've done stuff and then

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they walk you backwards and reverse

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engineer that for you?

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Correct.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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So we know there's a couple options out

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there and we've heard a lot of those

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options that they exist and maybe we

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didn't know they existed.

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But I'd like to hear some more about

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how do you get there?

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How do you get from point A to

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point B?

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Right.

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that's why like a show like bar rescue

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is kind of cool i mean i know

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it's you know it's sort of set up

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right but it's like we go in there

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and there's the glaring problem john

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taffrey yells and screams but they do a

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pressure test everything explodes the

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owner loses their mind but then they go

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all right now here's how we're going to

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fix it and i really like when they

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do an episode that they go hey remember

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that episode from three years ago well

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they're still in business or they've

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tripled their whatever you're like oh yeah

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this stuff works over time

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Which is good.

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What's something that you thought should

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have been on the menu?

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Oh,

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that's not what I thought you were going

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to ask me.

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I thought you were going to ask me

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the question you asked him.

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No, you're on a practice.

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But how would you have answered that one?

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I am really looking forward to tomorrow

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because I have the good fortune of being

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on a panel.

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And I get caught in a vacuum of

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listening of how to solve the problems

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from academics.

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And I really want to hear what a

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business person has to say about how we

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can solve this problem.

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I watch that a lot.

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I get caught in that a lot, right?

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Because I do live streams with business

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owners and we're like, you know,

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academic this, this, this.

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And then I know somebody who's in

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academics and you're like, okay,

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I see what you're saying.

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But actually, that's not how,

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not even just how it works.

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It's like,

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we've tried that or you can't do that

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because of A, B, X, Y, Z.

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So it's good to know that.

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Why don't you just do this?

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And you're like, oh, hey,

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thank you for pointing out that thing

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that's so obvious in my line of work

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that I can't do because of these seventeen

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reasons.

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You're like, oh, I didn't know that.

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Sorry.

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So to answer your question,

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not be a bad guest,

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the question that you did ask me,

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what did I want to see?

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Or what did you look at and say,

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oh,

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I thought that would have been an edgy

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top,

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like something Graham Session worthy that

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wasn't?

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knowing that they can't put everything.

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Right,

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they can't put everything because it's a

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pretty small conference.

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But I don't know.

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I would have liked to see something.

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And we touched on this a little bit,

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but like...

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How to maintain your optimism.

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Okay.

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Or how to continue to think big in

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a world that seems to be more restrictive.

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Squeezing.

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Yeah.

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Going into the diamonds caused under

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pressure.

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Yeah.

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So how do we keep diamonding?

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Yeah.

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I would say Rihanna, but there's no way.

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We can do that.

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We'll do that later.

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And I was just talking with Patrick

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Graham.

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You guys are following Patrick Graham,

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the guy...

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this thing's named after.

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And he and I both concluded,

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I was like, these are great discussions.

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I'm like, Patrick, but where's the real,

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where's the real conversation?

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He's like the bar.

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And I'm like, right.

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We know that the answer,

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which is why this podcast,

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how this podcast originated.

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If you were to be on the planning

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committee for next year,

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what would you be like this?

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Either I'm going to give this talk or

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I need,

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this needs to be here next year.

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What would you do if you had sixteen

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years?

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What do they say?

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Ninety percent of the biggest person,

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three years.

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And if you make it past three years,

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it's like, dude.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So what I would probably say is one

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of the topics and Sky just sort of

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touched on it.

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You know,

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how do you maintain the optimism?

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How do you how can we sort of

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combat all the challenges that we're

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facing as a profession right now?

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without changing the quality of what we

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do, right?

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So I would sort of focus on that

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piece.

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I'd say, all right, well,

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what's successful?

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What works?

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How does it work?

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And how do you make sure that we

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value our people,

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that we value the care we give,

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and put that above all else?

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We stop competing with each other, right?

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We stop competing with other PT practices,

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and we focus on competing

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to get paid what we deserve, right?

00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:55.321
And what's the key to that piece,

00:07:55.401 --> 00:07:57.423
I think?

00:07:57.483 --> 00:07:59.244
You are in academics.

00:07:59.524 --> 00:08:01.865
You take people to work for you who

00:08:01.906 --> 00:08:03.487
have just graduated from academics.

00:08:04.168 --> 00:08:06.310
What's something that you think is

00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:06.829
important?

00:08:07.091 --> 00:08:07.411
Right now,

00:08:07.451 --> 00:08:09.112
the discussion going on right now is about

00:08:09.172 --> 00:08:09.872
generations.

00:08:10.312 --> 00:08:11.754
And we're like, what's important to you?

00:08:11.793 --> 00:08:13.254
And how do I figure that out instead

00:08:13.295 --> 00:08:15.156
of these kids today?

00:08:15.197 --> 00:08:15.937
These kids today...

00:08:16.817 --> 00:08:18.059
It's usually followed by a negative.

00:08:18.158 --> 00:08:19.338
Some of these kids today are so

00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:20.038
innovative.

00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:21.199
It's usually negative.

00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.100
But how do you or how have you

00:08:24.141 --> 00:08:25.742
over sixteen years been able to say like,

00:08:25.802 --> 00:08:26.742
all right,

00:08:26.822 --> 00:08:29.283
here here is a generational divide and I

00:08:29.322 --> 00:08:32.163
need to figure out how to incentivize or

00:08:32.224 --> 00:08:33.884
work with this person when they value

00:08:34.345 --> 00:08:36.005
something drastically than I did?

00:08:36.166 --> 00:08:36.385
Yeah.

00:08:36.426 --> 00:08:38.346
So I think I think that answer is

00:08:38.986 --> 00:08:40.427
it's probably pretty simple,

00:08:40.467 --> 00:08:41.128
but maybe not easy.

00:08:41.408 --> 00:08:43.688
uh the great things are yeah right and

00:08:43.769 --> 00:08:46.331
so um it's just doing what we as

00:08:46.410 --> 00:08:48.932
physical therapists do the best right from

00:08:49.072 --> 00:08:50.293
we talked earlier today about the

00:08:50.352 --> 00:08:52.355
diagnostic tools that are now potentially

00:08:52.375 --> 00:08:53.956
available in a bunch of different states

00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:56.000
but I still think the thing we do

00:08:56.020 --> 00:08:56.620
the best is listen.

00:08:57.201 --> 00:09:00.123
And if we listen to the new graduates,

00:09:00.143 --> 00:09:01.263
to the prospective hires,

00:09:01.863 --> 00:09:02.923
and figure out what motivates them,

00:09:02.984 --> 00:09:04.625
figure out what they want to do.

00:09:04.985 --> 00:09:06.446
Do they wanna own a practice someday?

00:09:06.505 --> 00:09:08.086
Do they wanna manage a practice someday?

00:09:08.527 --> 00:09:09.167
What do they wanna see?

00:09:09.187 --> 00:09:10.327
They wanna see a bunch of athletes that

00:09:10.347 --> 00:09:11.548
like geriatric populations?

00:09:12.168 --> 00:09:13.548
Talk to people, listen to them,

00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:14.669
figure out what they want,

00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:16.821
then figure out a way we can provide

00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:18.621
that build that right build that so that

00:09:18.942 --> 00:09:19.962
because listen if you came to work for

00:09:19.982 --> 00:09:21.724
me jimmy and and you said mike i

00:09:21.764 --> 00:09:23.544
really only want to see soccer players and

00:09:23.565 --> 00:09:25.385
basketball players i said okay you know

00:09:25.405 --> 00:09:26.846
what i will do everything i can to

00:09:26.907 --> 00:09:28.868
get you that population you got to work

00:09:28.888 --> 00:09:30.288
with me a little bit as often as

00:09:30.328 --> 00:09:31.889
possible i need to fill up your schedule

00:09:31.950 --> 00:09:33.490
but as much as we can i will

00:09:33.530 --> 00:09:35.052
get you relationships with the people who

00:09:35.072 --> 00:09:36.994
are going to send you that population and

00:09:37.014 --> 00:09:38.654
i'll support you because this is what you

00:09:38.695 --> 00:09:40.235
love right honestly if you do what you

00:09:40.275 --> 00:09:40.475
love

00:09:41.126 --> 00:09:41.506
It's great.

00:09:41.687 --> 00:09:41.908
Right.

00:09:42.187 --> 00:09:42.927
What's the old saying?

00:09:43.388 --> 00:09:44.188
You never work a day in your life.

00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:44.509
Right.

00:09:44.668 --> 00:09:45.309
Right.

00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:45.509
Yeah.

00:09:45.529 --> 00:09:46.129
I believe that's very true.

00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:49.072
I heard a great interview question that

00:09:49.111 --> 00:09:50.812
you can find something like this out,

00:09:50.913 --> 00:09:52.254
tease it out, which is, uh,

00:09:52.413 --> 00:09:54.315
the guy taught me to ask, uh,

00:09:54.335 --> 00:09:55.495
in the initial interview,

00:09:55.515 --> 00:09:57.376
when you're hiring a clinician, um,

00:09:57.437 --> 00:09:58.677
if you were to quit in two years,

00:09:58.758 --> 00:09:59.999
why, why, why would that be?

00:10:00.359 --> 00:10:00.778
And if they're,

00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:02.080
if they say something like, well,

00:10:02.379 --> 00:10:03.941
if you didn't pay me enough or if

00:10:03.961 --> 00:10:04.241
it was like,

00:10:04.261 --> 00:10:05.923
there's no growth or I wasn't seeing that

00:10:06.123 --> 00:10:07.543
there, instead of saying like,

00:10:08.283 --> 00:10:08.985
What do you need?

00:10:09.405 --> 00:10:11.307
It's saying, why would you leave?

00:10:11.327 --> 00:10:12.328
It turns it into a story.

00:10:12.349 --> 00:10:15.192
That's why people don't leave his clinic.

00:10:15.211 --> 00:10:16.494
I mean, really,

00:10:16.514 --> 00:10:18.937
he listens to them and he helps them

00:10:19.618 --> 00:10:21.659
see what's valuable to them and then he

00:10:21.700 --> 00:10:22.461
tries to make it happen.

00:10:22.581 --> 00:10:23.982
I feel like you pointed out that the

00:10:24.003 --> 00:10:25.323
job of a business owner is to create

00:10:25.443 --> 00:10:26.184
a good environment.

00:10:26.905 --> 00:10:28.606
and listen but the job of clinician is

00:10:28.647 --> 00:10:30.948
to create a great environment and listen

00:10:31.048 --> 00:10:33.551
differently right but doing both of those

00:10:33.571 --> 00:10:35.371
things for different audiences can lead to

00:10:35.432 --> 00:10:37.714
success absolutely you see and interact

00:10:37.813 --> 00:10:41.035
with students long before they graduate

00:10:41.056 --> 00:10:44.678
and join the workforce um what can

00:10:44.778 --> 00:10:46.799
academics teach business about these

00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.741
things or how to predict what's coming

00:10:48.782 --> 00:10:49.861
like i feel like you should just be

00:10:49.881 --> 00:10:52.344
like writing messages in a bottle to mike

00:10:52.364 --> 00:10:54.004
and be like okay in six years these

00:10:54.044 --> 00:10:55.686
students are gonna be like this and you

00:10:55.706 --> 00:10:56.226
should do this

00:10:57.561 --> 00:10:59.422
I really think we need to be better

00:10:59.481 --> 00:11:00.902
in academics about having it be

00:11:00.961 --> 00:11:03.062
bi-directional because we get a lot of

00:11:03.582 --> 00:11:04.442
these kids today,

00:11:04.503 --> 00:11:06.043
we get it from the clinics and they're

00:11:06.063 --> 00:11:06.244
like,

00:11:06.344 --> 00:11:08.024
you guys aren't doing a good enough job

00:11:08.764 --> 00:11:11.985
in academics to prepare them for what real

00:11:12.044 --> 00:11:15.326
life clinic is like now.

00:11:15.525 --> 00:11:17.927
So I think that we should be working

00:11:17.986 --> 00:11:20.368
together more to sort of develop a

00:11:20.488 --> 00:11:23.729
curriculum and a more, you know,

00:11:23.928 --> 00:11:26.769
in context learning experience so they can

00:11:27.230 --> 00:11:29.691
understand what the current challenges but

00:11:29.731 --> 00:11:30.831
then how do they turn those into

00:11:30.892 --> 00:11:33.192
opportunities i'm always thinking about

00:11:33.254 --> 00:11:35.335
too like we need to give them more

00:11:35.434 --> 00:11:37.035
for what they're paying for and what

00:11:37.056 --> 00:11:39.256
they're doing like students you mean yeah

00:11:39.397 --> 00:11:42.359
i mean like i just think about can

00:11:42.418 --> 00:11:45.841
we give them a skill set where it's

00:11:45.880 --> 00:11:47.642
like how do we get them to be

00:11:47.682 --> 00:11:49.123
more entrepreneurial and how do we do

00:11:49.182 --> 00:11:51.043
design thinking because

00:11:51.744 --> 00:11:53.105
we can't just prepare them for the way

00:11:53.125 --> 00:11:55.346
that how I practice physical therapy,

00:11:55.466 --> 00:11:56.187
you know, it's like,

00:11:56.287 --> 00:11:57.746
we have to prepare them to be like,

00:11:57.807 --> 00:11:58.607
what's the next thing.

00:11:58.648 --> 00:11:59.749
And if we want the profession to move

00:11:59.788 --> 00:12:00.109
forward,

00:12:00.589 --> 00:12:03.530
we should also spend some time developing

00:12:04.091 --> 00:12:05.371
almost like what you'd see in a business

00:12:05.392 --> 00:12:07.692
curriculum, not how to open a business,

00:12:07.732 --> 00:12:09.854
but how do you have that mindset to

00:12:09.894 --> 00:12:12.816
think bigger than what we are now?

00:12:12.916 --> 00:12:14.177
Cause I'm always also thinking about the

00:12:14.216 --> 00:12:15.277
profession and it's like,

00:12:15.496 --> 00:12:17.418
we keep having the same discussion over

00:12:17.438 --> 00:12:18.019
and over again.

00:12:18.058 --> 00:12:19.419
Like, why don't people know what we do?

00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:19.779
Like,

00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:21.301
Why don't people see the value?

00:12:21.341 --> 00:12:23.381
We know that we give great care and

00:12:23.422 --> 00:12:26.283
it's more economical and we do prevention,

00:12:26.322 --> 00:12:27.643
but it's like, no, still,

00:12:27.663 --> 00:12:30.044
we're not moving the needle as far as

00:12:30.085 --> 00:12:30.465
we can.

00:12:31.044 --> 00:12:32.186
So I'm sort of like, well,

00:12:32.225 --> 00:12:34.986
do we create armies of people who,

00:12:35.586 --> 00:12:35.986
you know what I mean?

00:12:36.006 --> 00:12:36.147
Like,

00:12:37.028 --> 00:12:38.107
I am not the first person to say

00:12:38.128 --> 00:12:39.509
this, but why do we teach goniometry?

00:12:40.028 --> 00:12:41.288
goniometry over sixteen weeks.

00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:42.990
I don't know.

00:12:43.049 --> 00:12:45.951
It's the same device.

00:12:45.990 --> 00:12:47.490
Just pick a different joint.

00:12:47.530 --> 00:12:48.150
Maybe we just do,

00:12:48.191 --> 00:12:49.311
here's one ball and socket,

00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:50.351
here's one hinge joint.

00:12:51.751 --> 00:12:53.152
Do it on the upper and lower extremity.

00:12:53.192 --> 00:12:55.572
We'll teach you the spine.

00:12:58.333 --> 00:12:58.653
I get it.

00:12:58.734 --> 00:13:00.313
There's academic bloat.

00:13:00.433 --> 00:13:01.475
What do you take out?

00:13:01.534 --> 00:13:02.134
What do you put in?

00:13:02.154 --> 00:13:03.455
But I think we have to rethink it.

00:13:03.554 --> 00:13:05.355
Love it.

00:13:05.875 --> 00:13:06.076
Yeah.

00:13:07.275 --> 00:13:07.897
Same question,

00:13:07.917 --> 00:13:09.839
but different point in life.

00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:11.861
How do you know when someone walks in

00:13:12.201 --> 00:13:13.583
who's just graduated,

00:13:13.624 --> 00:13:14.804
who's going to be a great clinician?

00:13:15.245 --> 00:13:17.008
And how can you tell when someone walks

00:13:17.028 --> 00:13:19.630
in, they're going to be a great student?

00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:21.211
So what are you looking for?

00:13:21.231 --> 00:13:22.293
What are the things that you're like,

00:13:22.313 --> 00:13:22.394
yeah.

00:13:23.772 --> 00:13:27.313
great clinicians, probably, mostly for me,

00:13:27.354 --> 00:13:28.475
when I sit down with somebody for an

00:13:28.495 --> 00:13:28.794
interview,

00:13:28.815 --> 00:13:31.297
the kind of things I want to hear

00:13:31.317 --> 00:13:34.639
from them are not about all the different

00:13:34.658 --> 00:13:36.860
things they've seen in other clinics or as

00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:37.900
a student or anything like that.

00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:38.480
It's

00:13:39.481 --> 00:13:40.221
It's probably hard to quantify.

00:13:40.261 --> 00:13:41.623
It's, it's a motivation.

00:13:41.743 --> 00:13:44.183
It's a, it's a desire to see.

00:13:45.104 --> 00:13:45.823
And it's a passion.

00:13:46.203 --> 00:13:47.684
If they've got a passion about something,

00:13:47.725 --> 00:13:47.965
if they,

00:13:48.345 --> 00:13:50.125
if they can explain to me something they

00:13:50.186 --> 00:13:50.346
love,

00:13:50.365 --> 00:13:51.245
and it's one of the questions I always

00:13:51.326 --> 00:13:52.307
ask is, tell me what you love.

00:13:52.326 --> 00:13:53.346
What do you love about physical therapy?

00:13:53.366 --> 00:13:55.087
Like, why do you love physical therapy?

00:13:55.967 --> 00:13:56.427
And quite honestly,

00:13:56.447 --> 00:13:58.229
I've had some interviews where they, well,

00:13:58.249 --> 00:13:59.428
I'm not sure I do.

00:13:59.808 --> 00:14:00.590
You're like, got it.

00:14:00.669 --> 00:14:02.129
And you're just drawing a right line.

00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:04.331
Well, so maybe, but,

00:14:04.451 --> 00:14:05.711
but the first question I asked after that

00:14:05.751 --> 00:14:06.491
is, why?

00:14:07.371 --> 00:14:07.991
I love what I do.

00:14:08.032 --> 00:14:09.312
I love what I do every day since

00:14:09.332 --> 00:14:09.812
I've been doing it.

00:14:09.832 --> 00:14:10.873
I've been doing it for twenty five years.

00:14:10.913 --> 00:14:12.634
So like I don't know how you couldn't

00:14:12.673 --> 00:14:13.134
love this.

00:14:13.474 --> 00:14:14.475
Tell me about where you work now.

00:14:14.534 --> 00:14:16.195
Tell me about your last experience.

00:14:16.716 --> 00:14:17.635
What was not to love?

00:14:17.796 --> 00:14:19.856
What would you not like about that?

00:14:20.017 --> 00:14:20.256
Right.

00:14:20.537 --> 00:14:22.018
Because then I'll get a sense of because

00:14:22.158 --> 00:14:24.759
if they describe my office and they don't

00:14:24.798 --> 00:14:25.899
love that and they don't love that,

00:14:26.058 --> 00:14:26.798
they're not going to love me.

00:14:26.918 --> 00:14:27.078
Right.

00:14:27.099 --> 00:14:28.139
And they're not going to come work for

00:14:28.179 --> 00:14:28.259
me.

00:14:28.779 --> 00:14:30.380
But if they describe an office where

00:14:30.721 --> 00:14:32.601
they're asked to see thirty patients a day

00:14:32.662 --> 00:14:34.062
and they're not given the time and not

00:14:34.082 --> 00:14:35.322
given the support and they're not given

00:14:35.383 --> 00:14:37.244
Con Ed and they're not given any sort

00:14:37.283 --> 00:14:38.664
of professional development or

00:14:38.705 --> 00:14:40.666
encouragement to pursue their passion.

00:14:40.686 --> 00:14:42.746
I was like, well, I can fix that.

00:14:42.846 --> 00:14:43.528
I can take care of that.

00:14:43.548 --> 00:14:44.768
So you're at you're teasing out as an

00:14:44.827 --> 00:14:46.009
environmental or internal.

00:14:46.048 --> 00:14:46.149
Yep.

00:14:46.269 --> 00:14:47.889
And if it's internal, I can't fix that.

00:14:47.909 --> 00:14:48.250
I can't fix that.

00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:48.710
There's nothing.

00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:50.270
But if you were in a crappy situation,

00:14:50.350 --> 00:14:51.571
let's get you in a better situation.

00:14:51.630 --> 00:14:52.291
Yeah, exactly.

00:14:52.311 --> 00:14:52.711
Yeah.

00:14:52.770 --> 00:14:53.251
Okay.

00:14:53.312 --> 00:14:54.292
Great answer.

00:14:54.312 --> 00:14:55.392
So how do you want to answer this?

00:14:55.451 --> 00:14:56.832
Do you want to answer what makes,

00:14:57.552 --> 00:14:58.714
what do you see that you know that

00:14:58.754 --> 00:14:59.594
this person is going to be a good

00:14:59.634 --> 00:14:59.994
student?

00:15:00.274 --> 00:15:01.855
Or what do you see while they're

00:15:02.754 --> 00:15:03.916
a student that you're like, Oh,

00:15:03.936 --> 00:15:04.736
this person's going to have,

00:15:04.797 --> 00:15:06.038
this person's going to do great things.

00:15:06.217 --> 00:15:07.379
I think the answer is the same.

00:15:07.619 --> 00:15:09.640
Okay, good.

00:15:09.841 --> 00:15:11.621
And I think it is people who are

00:15:11.662 --> 00:15:12.222
successful,

00:15:12.283 --> 00:15:17.567
who have enough self-awareness to be open

00:15:17.647 --> 00:15:18.707
to change.

00:15:19.428 --> 00:15:23.091
I think PT school is very challenging and

00:15:23.111 --> 00:15:24.533
the people who are sort of like

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:26.480
this is not going to be forever.

00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:28.241
I may need help in this.

00:15:28.361 --> 00:15:30.043
I'm excelling at this and I'm going to

00:15:30.102 --> 00:15:32.725
go like show my skills to somebody else.

00:15:32.745 --> 00:15:33.865
And I'm going to feel proud of myself

00:15:33.884 --> 00:15:35.626
for that two weeks that I actually had

00:15:35.667 --> 00:15:38.908
my stuff together out of a hundred and

00:15:38.928 --> 00:15:39.629
twelve weeks.

00:15:40.450 --> 00:15:41.009
I had two.

00:15:41.750 --> 00:15:43.631
But I think it's the person who is

00:15:43.772 --> 00:15:45.972
adaptable and they are willing to like

00:15:46.072 --> 00:15:47.634
know who they are,

00:15:47.693 --> 00:15:48.475
what their shortcomings are,

00:15:48.495 --> 00:15:49.414
what their strengths are,

00:15:49.514 --> 00:15:50.755
and be able to kind of like

00:15:52.369 --> 00:15:54.091
be okay with all of that because that

00:15:54.130 --> 00:15:56.874
kind of a person is going to be

00:15:56.994 --> 00:15:58.595
like our patients come in like that too.

00:15:58.615 --> 00:15:58.836
Right.

00:15:59.275 --> 00:16:00.697
So that kind of a person is like

00:16:00.716 --> 00:16:01.378
someone who's like,

00:16:01.398 --> 00:16:02.578
the job's going to be different every day.

00:16:02.599 --> 00:16:03.600
I'm going to be working with different

00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:04.421
people every day.

00:16:04.841 --> 00:16:05.982
I'm willing to learn about them.

00:16:07.397 --> 00:16:09.839
I'm open to growing as an individual

00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:14.322
myself and not being kind of like stuck

00:16:14.402 --> 00:16:16.082
in the like,

00:16:16.263 --> 00:16:18.625
every day is going to be horrible and

00:16:18.924 --> 00:16:20.144
I'm not doing great.

00:16:20.206 --> 00:16:20.645
And it's like,

00:16:20.686 --> 00:16:22.647
can we just sort of rise above and

00:16:22.687 --> 00:16:26.629
like the students that really see this as

00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:30.831
a opportunity to live in the moment and

00:16:30.932 --> 00:16:31.852
do all the things in the moment,

00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:33.394
but this is just for now.

00:16:33.714 --> 00:16:35.554
And they have the capacity to be something

00:16:35.595 --> 00:16:36.296
different at the end.

00:16:36.515 --> 00:16:37.557
Do you remember when I had a clinical

00:16:37.596 --> 00:16:38.697
in an underground mall?

00:16:39.356 --> 00:16:39.898
I remember that.

00:16:39.998 --> 00:16:40.957
What was the name of that mall?

00:16:41.197 --> 00:16:43.239
It was like an underground bomb shelter.

00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:45.139
It doesn't even exist anymore.

00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:45.801
It was in Crystal City.

00:16:45.821 --> 00:16:46.520
It was across from Panagon.

00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:47.461
It was in Crystal City.

00:16:48.101 --> 00:16:48.621
It's right here.

00:16:49.243 --> 00:16:50.582
So I was in the food court of

00:16:50.602 --> 00:16:51.464
an underground mall.

00:16:52.163 --> 00:16:53.205
It was a national chain.

00:16:53.264 --> 00:16:54.164
I'm not going to throw them under the

00:16:54.205 --> 00:16:54.524
bus.

00:16:55.745 --> 00:16:57.826
And I literally remember messaging you and

00:16:57.866 --> 00:17:01.288
being like, is this it?

00:17:01.349 --> 00:17:02.509
And you were like, no.

00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:03.309
And I was like, well,

00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:05.090
this feels like this...

00:17:06.128 --> 00:17:07.830
I like to think I'm pretty resilient,

00:17:07.851 --> 00:17:09.132
like at least like a B plus.

00:17:09.172 --> 00:17:11.114
But I was like, what are we doing?

00:17:11.134 --> 00:17:13.896
And my CI was rubbing butts through jeans.

00:17:14.156 --> 00:17:15.378
He was like, dude,

00:17:15.459 --> 00:17:16.299
I remember just being like,

00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:18.241
I don't know what I'm doing here.

00:17:18.721 --> 00:17:18.882
Yeah.

00:17:19.041 --> 00:17:20.963
Underground mall where I was looking at a

00:17:21.404 --> 00:17:23.046
subway restaurant because I was in the

00:17:23.086 --> 00:17:23.646
food court.

00:17:23.666 --> 00:17:23.747
Yeah.

00:17:24.887 --> 00:17:26.369
And that was fun.

00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:28.451
But I think I said something to the

00:17:28.471 --> 00:17:29.752
effect because I say it all the time.

00:17:30.374 --> 00:17:30.513
Well,

00:17:30.574 --> 00:17:31.996
I think I said something like you can

00:17:32.056 --> 00:17:33.497
learn as much about what you don't want.

00:17:33.636 --> 00:17:33.978
Right.

00:17:34.878 --> 00:17:36.200
And that's a valuable experience.

00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:36.480
It is.

00:17:36.621 --> 00:17:37.461
Yeah, that's right.

00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:38.722
Look at it more like sculpture.

00:17:38.742 --> 00:17:39.983
Like, what are we chipping away?

00:17:40.023 --> 00:17:41.546
We're not going to have that.

00:17:41.826 --> 00:17:42.547
Got it.

00:17:42.807 --> 00:17:43.646
You need windows.

00:17:43.747 --> 00:17:44.228
All right.

00:17:44.248 --> 00:17:44.867
Check.

00:17:44.887 --> 00:17:46.248
Because literally it was like winter.

00:17:46.268 --> 00:17:46.989
It was like now.

00:17:47.068 --> 00:17:49.068
So I would go to work at like

00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:50.670
in dark, zero dark thirty.

00:17:50.710 --> 00:17:52.070
I would leave at zero dark thirty.

00:17:52.090 --> 00:17:52.830
Never saw the sun.

00:17:52.851 --> 00:17:53.550
Never saw the sun.

00:17:53.590 --> 00:17:55.211
And I was just like, this is great.

00:17:55.271 --> 00:17:56.531
This is this.

00:17:56.551 --> 00:17:58.292
I used to play rock music loud and

00:17:58.313 --> 00:17:59.673
give away beer and concert tickets.

00:17:59.712 --> 00:18:01.673
But now we're rubbing butts through jeans.

00:18:01.713 --> 00:18:02.595
And this is my job.

00:18:02.615 --> 00:18:03.394
I'm like, cool.

00:18:03.474 --> 00:18:04.075
In the dungeon.

00:18:04.615 --> 00:18:05.115
And I'm like, well,

00:18:05.135 --> 00:18:06.496
at least there's this on the bright side.

00:18:06.516 --> 00:18:07.695
There's a subway right there.

00:18:08.217 --> 00:18:10.196
Got as many subway punch things.

00:18:10.217 --> 00:18:11.238
And I got a free footlong.

00:18:11.978 --> 00:18:16.201
um uh is there anything i didn't ask

00:18:16.221 --> 00:18:17.862
you didn't ask me what session i want

00:18:17.882 --> 00:18:20.104
to see oh yeah sorry i forgot what

00:18:20.124 --> 00:18:22.365
would you put on the docket how to

00:18:22.384 --> 00:18:23.346
have a nerd lunch

00:18:23.935 --> 00:18:25.096
What's a nerd lunch?

00:18:25.156 --> 00:18:26.479
Oh, I have them all the time.

00:18:26.618 --> 00:18:27.720
What is a nerd lunch?

00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.961
So you know what a nerd lunch is.

00:18:29.981 --> 00:18:30.303
Do I?

00:18:30.403 --> 00:18:31.544
Yeah, because you've been to one.

00:18:31.564 --> 00:18:32.484
I have.

00:18:32.525 --> 00:18:33.665
You're going to be invited to the next

00:18:33.767 --> 00:18:33.866
one.

00:18:33.886 --> 00:18:34.847
I eat lunch with myself.

00:18:34.968 --> 00:18:35.508
Yeah, no.

00:18:35.567 --> 00:18:38.330
So where you have a lunch and or

00:18:38.371 --> 00:18:39.152
it doesn't have to be lunch.

00:18:39.311 --> 00:18:40.673
You have a moment and it's on a

00:18:40.713 --> 00:18:43.596
repetitive schedule and you have a group

00:18:43.656 --> 00:18:45.298
of people that do things that are

00:18:45.338 --> 00:18:46.259
completely opposite to you.

00:18:46.567 --> 00:18:47.767
So it's like your accountability group.

00:18:47.846 --> 00:18:49.067
It's like, how do you form that?

00:18:49.407 --> 00:18:50.929
Like if our group chat was just like,

00:18:51.048 --> 00:18:52.288
we're going to meet Fridays at one,

00:18:52.368 --> 00:18:52.949
twelve to one.

00:18:53.068 --> 00:18:53.269
Right.

00:18:53.469 --> 00:18:54.930
We all do in our group chat is

00:18:54.970 --> 00:18:56.369
like a bunch of PTs.

00:18:56.410 --> 00:18:57.851
But I don't think do any of us

00:18:57.871 --> 00:18:59.692
do the same thing now?

00:19:00.011 --> 00:19:02.393
Yeah.

00:19:02.492 --> 00:19:03.313
And why is that good?

00:19:04.388 --> 00:19:06.411
because I've said this before, it's like,

00:19:06.810 --> 00:19:08.672
we gotta get out of the silo.

00:19:09.073 --> 00:19:10.993
So I think having people that are

00:19:11.013 --> 00:19:12.775
comfortable enough to challenge you,

00:19:12.815 --> 00:19:14.316
and I think it's even better when they're

00:19:14.375 --> 00:19:15.277
outside of the profession,

00:19:15.857 --> 00:19:17.038
because they just look at things so

00:19:17.078 --> 00:19:17.499
differently.

00:19:18.345 --> 00:19:19.144
Yeah.

00:19:19.484 --> 00:19:21.205
So I'm just going to come back.

00:19:21.405 --> 00:19:22.826
I'm doing a cohort.

00:19:23.086 --> 00:19:23.746
I'm a teacher now.

00:19:23.766 --> 00:19:24.826
I'm teaching people how to podcast.

00:19:25.047 --> 00:19:26.727
So I've been asked before.

00:19:26.747 --> 00:19:27.467
I was like, I'll do it,

00:19:27.487 --> 00:19:28.288
but only if a couple of you are

00:19:28.307 --> 00:19:29.008
going to do it at once because it

00:19:29.028 --> 00:19:29.647
doesn't make any sense.

00:19:30.127 --> 00:19:31.228
So I've got three or four people going

00:19:31.248 --> 00:19:32.249
through this at the same time.

00:19:32.749 --> 00:19:34.469
And week one or two, I was like,

00:19:34.909 --> 00:19:35.549
this is your homework.

00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:37.130
Who are you talking to?

00:19:37.210 --> 00:19:38.029
Make up a fake person.

00:19:38.109 --> 00:19:39.030
As dumb as it sounds,

00:19:39.151 --> 00:19:40.090
exercise actually helps.

00:19:40.891 --> 00:19:42.232
And they're going through it and they're

00:19:42.272 --> 00:19:43.073
doing their thing.

00:19:43.193 --> 00:19:44.454
And then week two is like,

00:19:44.654 --> 00:19:45.955
now I want you to like,

00:19:46.037 --> 00:19:49.299
now it's what's one episode for this?

00:19:49.820 --> 00:19:50.701
What's one problem?

00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:53.104
And the funny part is the person who

00:19:53.483 --> 00:19:55.486
their podcast is launching is like really

00:19:55.526 --> 00:19:57.147
hard to articulate what they're trying to

00:19:57.188 --> 00:19:57.367
do.

00:19:57.669 --> 00:19:59.009
The other two people are like, oh, no,

00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:00.372
no, no, this is it.

00:20:00.491 --> 00:20:02.354
And they're able to rattle it off so

00:20:02.394 --> 00:20:02.933
damn easy.

00:20:03.815 --> 00:20:05.115
And then like, how are you doing that?

00:20:05.154 --> 00:20:05.695
I'm like, watch,

00:20:05.816 --> 00:20:06.675
you're going to be able to do it

00:20:06.715 --> 00:20:07.236
for him.

00:20:07.496 --> 00:20:08.195
He's going to be able to do it.

00:20:08.215 --> 00:20:08.935
You're going to be able to do it

00:20:08.955 --> 00:20:09.676
for the other people.

00:20:10.116 --> 00:20:11.057
You have the curse of knowledge.

00:20:11.656 --> 00:20:13.998
Like you've exhausted all the probable

00:20:14.337 --> 00:20:16.398
solutions because you know this space.

00:20:16.979 --> 00:20:18.239
And then you get another person that comes

00:20:18.278 --> 00:20:18.818
in and they're like,

00:20:19.138 --> 00:20:20.359
I've been tried this thing that you've

00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:20.839
never heard of.

00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:22.119
And you're like, no, what is that?

00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.601
Three M the company three M did this.

00:20:26.201 --> 00:20:28.321
they couldn't figure out how to do some

00:20:28.402 --> 00:20:29.102
engineering thing.

00:20:29.201 --> 00:20:29.701
And they were like,

00:20:29.981 --> 00:20:32.843
some entrepreneurial Scotsman came up with

00:20:32.863 --> 00:20:33.363
this idea.

00:20:33.462 --> 00:20:35.403
Essentially he created open source problem

00:20:35.442 --> 00:20:36.022
solutions.

00:20:36.202 --> 00:20:37.104
So they were like, all right,

00:20:37.124 --> 00:20:38.804
we're gonna put this on a website and

00:20:38.824 --> 00:20:39.824
we'll put a bounty on it.

00:20:40.223 --> 00:20:40.864
So some like,

00:20:41.184 --> 00:20:42.525
the famous story that I heard on a

00:20:42.565 --> 00:20:45.404
podcast was some shepherd was like, well,

00:20:45.424 --> 00:20:46.306
have you tried this?

00:20:46.586 --> 00:20:48.066
And these engineers were like,

00:20:48.506 --> 00:20:49.326
what the hell is that?

00:20:49.346 --> 00:20:50.707
And like, oh, well, we've, this, this,

00:20:50.727 --> 00:20:51.646
this, and it solved it.

00:20:52.346 --> 00:20:53.667
you needed a shepherd to solve an

00:20:53.708 --> 00:20:55.589
engineering problem why because engineers

00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:57.491
are taught engineering things they don't

00:20:57.571 --> 00:20:59.314
know how to get the flock out of

00:20:59.334 --> 00:21:03.218
here um all right uh is there anything

00:21:03.258 --> 00:21:06.099
i didn't ask about uh graham sessions or

00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.103
you know uh yeah all right we'll wrap

00:21:09.163 --> 00:21:10.805
up uh last thing we do on the

00:21:10.825 --> 00:21:13.367
uh episodes we call it the parting shot

00:21:15.442 --> 00:21:16.582
This is the parting shot.

00:21:17.123 --> 00:21:19.143
One last mic drop moment.

00:21:19.202 --> 00:21:20.002
No pressure.

00:21:20.442 --> 00:21:22.604
Just your legacy on the line.

00:21:23.743 --> 00:21:24.384
I will point out,

00:21:24.443 --> 00:21:25.785
I've been doing the parting shot for a

00:21:25.845 --> 00:21:26.365
decade.

00:21:26.464 --> 00:21:28.785
And just twenty eight minutes ago in

00:21:28.865 --> 00:21:31.185
Graham Sessions, someone on stage,

00:21:31.266 --> 00:21:32.105
I won't say who,

00:21:32.605 --> 00:21:33.906
but a pretty prominent person was like,

00:21:33.926 --> 00:21:35.207
do we have any other parting shots?

00:21:35.247 --> 00:21:37.027
And I was like, that's my turn.

00:21:37.207 --> 00:21:39.228
That's when you know you've been saying

00:21:39.248 --> 00:21:39.688
something over here.

00:21:39.748 --> 00:21:39.928
All right.

00:21:39.968 --> 00:21:40.488
Parting shot.

00:21:40.528 --> 00:21:41.928
Just last chance for whatever.

00:21:41.988 --> 00:21:42.709
Mic drop moment.

00:21:42.729 --> 00:21:43.388
Soapbox statement.

00:21:43.409 --> 00:21:43.689
Something.

00:21:43.729 --> 00:21:44.148
What do you got?

00:21:46.911 --> 00:21:48.352
I think the main take home for me

00:21:48.392 --> 00:21:50.073
from this whole Graham session has been,

00:21:51.453 --> 00:21:53.494
if you find people who love what they

00:21:53.535 --> 00:21:53.855
do,

00:21:54.415 --> 00:21:55.997
you'll be successful running a private

00:21:56.017 --> 00:21:56.416
practice.

00:21:56.798 --> 00:21:57.637
But you got to find people who love

00:21:57.657 --> 00:21:58.479
what they do and support them.

00:21:58.838 --> 00:22:00.220
You know, one of the other,

00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:01.181
I feel like I've been saying a whole

00:22:01.221 --> 00:22:02.981
bunch of sayings today, but I apologize.

00:22:03.582 --> 00:22:06.224
um is hire people smarter than you yeah

00:22:06.845 --> 00:22:08.267
right and let them do what they're good

00:22:08.287 --> 00:22:10.888
at yeah that second part's not easy like

00:22:10.969 --> 00:22:13.270
that's why steve jobs that's why that's so

00:22:13.491 --> 00:22:16.273
there's a cliche right but have you been

00:22:16.294 --> 00:22:18.316
in that situation have you been the person

00:22:18.375 --> 00:22:20.898
hired and then told what and how to

00:22:20.939 --> 00:22:22.840
do oh yeah sure and that's terribly

00:22:22.861 --> 00:22:24.942
frustrating and then the boss is like why

00:22:24.982 --> 00:22:26.503
isn't this working well yeah i think i

00:22:26.523 --> 00:22:28.246
said the other day which was uh

00:22:29.387 --> 00:22:29.969
In the context,

00:22:29.989 --> 00:22:32.068
it was the CEO kept messing with

00:22:32.128 --> 00:22:32.549
marketing.

00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:34.390
And I think my response was something

00:22:34.431 --> 00:22:34.871
like, well,

00:22:34.971 --> 00:22:36.991
if you keep putting your fingers in the

00:22:37.051 --> 00:22:38.192
soup, don't be pissed.

00:22:38.231 --> 00:22:39.113
It tastes like fingers.

00:22:40.212 --> 00:22:41.594
Stop touching the marketing and then it

00:22:41.634 --> 00:22:42.594
won't taste like fingers.

00:22:42.653 --> 00:22:45.174
But it's simple, but not easy.

00:22:45.194 --> 00:22:45.776
Parting shot.

00:22:45.796 --> 00:22:46.496
Clears before beers.

00:22:47.381 --> 00:22:49.863
I think that was my first party.

00:22:49.883 --> 00:22:51.383
That was her party shot like ten years

00:22:51.403 --> 00:22:51.463
ago.

00:22:51.483 --> 00:22:52.824
Yeah, I'm saying that to my kids.

00:22:52.844 --> 00:22:54.505
I'm like, just please, clues before beers.

00:22:56.646 --> 00:22:58.367
So I heard this yesterday.

00:22:58.428 --> 00:22:59.848
So it wasn't at Graham Sessions,

00:22:59.888 --> 00:23:00.689
but I heard it yesterday.

00:23:00.709 --> 00:23:01.930
So we were sort of like in the

00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:03.810
lead up to Graham Sessions and it was

00:23:04.030 --> 00:23:07.133
find the extraordinary in the ordinary.

00:23:07.413 --> 00:23:08.213
Oh, what does that mean?

00:23:08.354 --> 00:23:09.335
What do you think that what is that?

00:23:09.375 --> 00:23:09.615
What do you?

00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:11.099
I think you can mean whatever you want

00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.500
it to mean.

00:23:12.820 --> 00:23:15.561
I think it's like about reinvesting in

00:23:15.622 --> 00:23:17.442
wonderment because I think right now we

00:23:17.461 --> 00:23:18.803
don't have a lot of wonder in our

00:23:18.843 --> 00:23:19.282
lives.

00:23:19.423 --> 00:23:19.722
Good.

00:23:20.042 --> 00:23:21.823
So I've been trying to spend some time.

00:23:21.942 --> 00:23:25.044
I wonder what we should do.

00:23:25.183 --> 00:23:26.424
Did you find this at dinner last night?

00:23:27.505 --> 00:23:29.145
With the dinner that you were at.

00:23:29.266 --> 00:23:30.026
At dinner last night,

00:23:30.125 --> 00:23:32.247
I pointed out to people, you know,

00:23:32.468 --> 00:23:33.847
I was a typical twenty five year old

00:23:33.907 --> 00:23:34.648
rock radio DJ.

00:23:34.669 --> 00:23:36.409
We would make fun of things and people.

00:23:36.469 --> 00:23:37.190
That was our job,

00:23:37.269 --> 00:23:38.190
like to sort of be a dick.

00:23:38.830 --> 00:23:39.871
And now I'm like,

00:23:40.111 --> 00:23:41.491
like if I find out someone likes,

00:23:41.811 --> 00:23:42.092
I don't know,

00:23:42.152 --> 00:23:43.452
Pokemon or Disney or whatever.

00:23:43.553 --> 00:23:45.054
I used to be like, this is lame.

00:23:45.453 --> 00:23:46.875
Now I'm like just excited that they're

00:23:46.914 --> 00:23:49.316
excited, like finding extraordinary.

00:23:49.355 --> 00:23:49.596
I'm like,

00:23:49.996 --> 00:23:51.777
I don't care about Disney or whatever,

00:23:51.856 --> 00:23:52.737
but I'm like, that's cool.

00:23:52.757 --> 00:23:53.557
Why do you like that?

00:23:54.278 --> 00:23:55.419
i'm never gonna like that thing that's

00:23:55.459 --> 00:23:57.220
okay but it's like i'm actually excited

00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.142
you you're super into hula hooping tell me

00:23:59.182 --> 00:24:01.943
more about the hula hoop uh uh you

00:24:01.983 --> 00:24:03.505
know community and how i can be a

00:24:03.565 --> 00:24:05.686
part of it um so this is fun

00:24:06.126 --> 00:24:08.189
uh i appreciate you guys doing this now

00:24:08.568 --> 00:24:09.950
uh we should dip out of graham sessions

00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:11.730
early and go to dinner sounds like a

00:24:11.770 --> 00:24:11.912
plan

00:24:13.615 --> 00:24:14.674
That's it for this one,

00:24:14.954 --> 00:24:16.635
but we're just getting warmed up.

00:24:17.096 --> 00:24:19.017
Smash follow, send it to a friend,

00:24:19.237 --> 00:24:20.876
or crank up the next episode.

00:24:21.396 --> 00:24:22.438
Want to go deeper?

00:24:22.778 --> 00:24:26.798
Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on

00:24:26.858 --> 00:24:29.420
YouTube and socials at pgpinecast.

00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:32.101
And legally, none of this was advice.

00:24:32.161 --> 00:24:34.082
It's for entertainment purposes only.

00:24:34.561 --> 00:24:35.541
Bulls**t!

00:24:35.582 --> 00:24:36.162
See, Keith?

00:24:36.382 --> 00:24:37.442
We read the script.

00:24:37.742 --> 00:24:38.383
Happy now?