Clinic Conversions: The Marketing Fix You Didn't Know You Needed

0:00 on live radio, and it's hard to come back from that. Corey Hibben, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, brother. Glad to be here. We are both recording in our kitchens, which is my favorite room in the house. Yeah, you might see some cats run by, but nobody will be cooking, so that'll be good. That's okay. It sort of is like when people say you plan a house party and you're like, oh, we're all going to hang out in my living room. I'm like, people just gravitate towards the kitchen. The kitchen is the heartbeat of the house. Where do you actually live? Austin, Texas. Yeah. One of us is smart and lives in Austin and then one lives in upstate New York. So right now in April, as we record, it's like it's warm. I'm like, it's forty nine. It's not warm.

0:41 It's warmer than it was, though. So I have a buddy that lives in Winnipeg. He's very well known on the Instagram pages like some couple million followers because he does a daily cold plunge. You might have seen him. His name's Jordan, but he's a buddy of mine. And yeah, I just saw his video the other day because he's been cold plunging for, I think, like, I don't know, seven hundred days or something like that. And it's still like snowing and there's still snow on the ground. And I was like, thank you. We've been we're well past that. Yes. No, no, thank you. Yeah. So you and I have similarities and differences and I like similarities and differences. So if someone asks like, Corey, what's your superhero backstory? Like, what did you do? What are you doing now? And like, how did those two things come to be? How those two things come to cross?

1:22 Yeah, I'd say there's almost three things. I live at the intersection between business, marketing, and healthcare is really where I live. And how I got there was that I thought I wanted to do the healthcare thing. I used to work as an occupational therapist. I used to practice on the front lines, outpatient orthopedics, the whole rigmarole. And through sucking at that long enough, I eventually realized that I'm actually really not good at patient care at all. And that's not where I should be. But I'm way better at, as I was saying the other day on my own podcast show, dicking around on the Internet and doing like the business. It's a skill. It is. It's it's why I'm way better at the business and marketing side of things and being the behind the scenes and supporting those who are on the front lines and actually seeing patients versus actually seeing patients like a good day for me, which is polar opposite to my girlfriend.

2:13 My girlfriend is a chiropractor. And so she's I mean, she's seeing, you know. sometimes a hundred a day sometimes. And, and like, she's, you know, a lot of people that are a lot of interactions. A perfect day for me is like, if I have less than two human interactions a day, great day for me like I like the days that she's home and I'm still working uh just this happened just the other day she's like you're so quiet it's like there's something on your mind and I was like no you're normally gone I just don't talk like all day and I love it that's what every day looks like but obviously that's that says something that she had she had a perception of what your day was like And then she saw it and was like, huh, that's a good insight for both of you, I think.

2:55 Definitely. Yeah. And she's much more aware of that now is that I just spend a lot of time up in my head, which is she spends a lot more time like in the area of presence of other people. And so it's just a completely different way to spend your day. I probably, I'm probably somewhere between both of those things because I know like whenever I start to talk to people after like the workday is over or whatever, they're like, oh, you haven't been around people. And I'm like, how can you tell? And they're like, you haven't stopped talking. And you're like, what do you think about this? What if you did this and this? And how about if you did the opposite of that? What if we did that? Would that be a good idea? And they're like, I don't know what you're talking about because you're talking about it at a hundred fifty miles an hour. So I think me is like, it needs to be like in chunks. Like I do like that thing where I'm just going like, I'm going to go sit on the couch with the laptop and bang out a bunch of things.

3:40 But yeah, for me too, it was patient care was, I didn't think I was good at it. People said, you're fine. They're great. And I was like, I didn't feel good at it. And that made me feel guilty. It's like, I went to school for this. And it's an admirable profession. So for me to go to school for a couple, go back to school as a second career person to go there and then to get there and be like, oh man, I don't love it. Like there was definitely some, was there guilt for you? Is there still guilt for you when you're like, I'm an OT and people are like, that's cool. And you're like, but I do this. Like, do you have guilt? Yeah, I call it sunk cost fallacy is what it is. It's funny. I was literally just explaining this the other day to my girlfriend is that I'm feeling it again now is because every time we put a lot of time and energy into anything, whether it's like this podcast show or a career or a relationship is the most common one, is that when you realize that you need to take the next step into the next thing, the pain you're feeling is sunk cost it's you feel like you wasted time and energy and resources and money and brain power and the reason it's called a fallacy is because it is a fallacy is because you needed to go through the process of that path to realize you're on the wrong path and we do it all the time um and like I said I'm I'm feeling it again right now even with the work that I do now is I was previously a lot more broad seeing like anything from health coaches and all the way up to doctors and tech clinics.

5:07 And now I'm just becoming way more focused and picking a very specific niche, predominantly PTs and chiropractors. And I'm feeling it again because I feel like I put all this time into all the other professions and now realizing damn okay had I done this from the beginning I'd be a lot farther along yada yada but again it's all a fallacy it's like it's just how you feel it's not the reality of the world well and we and I love the fact that you bring up logical fallacies sunk cost fallacy being one of them we do it with I mean I'm guilty like relationships like you said like well you know I've put so much into this that I gotta see if it's gotta go somewhere and it's like It's as corny as it sounds. It's like sometimes the journey was the destination. You've ridden this thing out and there's nothing there for you anymore.

5:49 And the longer you stay, you know, the answer is leave or do the different thing. But as much as I know that, I still like I get people who are like, why don't you do a couple of days a week? What if you did one day with patient care? And I'm like, that doesn't excite me. I wish it did. Cause I think I would have to answer this question as much, but I'm like, it doesn't like what I usually do too, is I get real excited. I'm like, you know, that feeling when you're like, look at your schedule and you're like, look at these different patients. And you're like, this is my tomorrow. And like, you know how excited you have feeling when you get excited, they go, yeah, I go, I don't get that. I don't get it. I'm sorry. But if I look at a calendar, it's like you're going to do these different interviews and you're going to do these phone calls and you're going to do this, whatever.

6:30 I get excited. And I'm only on this rock for a couple of years more. I'm halfway done probably. I'm in my forties. Do the thing that excites you and ignore everybody else. This is an ego problem. I know that. I'm guilty of it. You know, it's funny. I recently learned about this idea of growing into pain. So this ties exactly what you're talking about in terms of seeing your schedule and seeing patients that you don't want to spend time with versus seeing like interviews or conversation or even podcasts like this that does get you excited. So the concept and this is exactly what I experienced when I was working in health care as an OT. was that what I eventually realized took me forever to figure this out but was I was really bad at the marketing side in terms of growing my practice because I didn't want more patients because I didn't want to see more patients that is deep and so like it's and it's true for everything is that we we don't grow into pain right there's this thing called the pain line dan martell talks about this all the time maybe you've heard of it but essentially it's like when you feel yourself not or stagnating or not doing something it's a big part of that is very likely is because like you don't want to grow into whatever that thing is and I've seen it in my own business happen again and again is that when more clients or more customers or in the case of a practitioner more patients to you feels like more pain.

7:45 That tells me that you rather need to delegate, you need to outsource, you need to somehow get something off of your plate to allow space, to draw space between where you are and where that pain line is to allow you to grow to the next level. Otherwise, you're just gonna keep banging into it and you don't wanna go there, so you're not gonna do it. You just self-sabotage, that's all that ends up happening. Well, thank you guys for listening into Corey and Jimmy's therapy session for the first ten minutes. At least that's the funny part is like I don't need Corey to solve it. We don't need anybody to solve it. I just want to be like, do you also – I'm not the crazy one, right? Like other people feel this way. And I talked about this with a woman who was a physical therapist. And now she's been on ESPN for a decade.

8:27 And she's on the fantasy. She's like, she does fantasy sports. That was her whole job. Like she was a PT. Now she's on ESPN a dozen times a month during football season. And she's got this crazy podcast. She's on ESPN. She was going in a different direction. She was going from PT to TV or radio. So I'll talk to her. And I was like, I was in radio for fifteen years and I now want to be a PT. But now I'm realizing there's a mix. I'm like, my point is bringing her up is like, who else was I supposed to talk to that actually understood that? Like five years ago, nobody. Now that there's more of these things and everybody's got a podcast and YouTube and all that, there's more people that could understand it. But for a while there, I was like, dude, I'm weird. I know. Like radio DJs shouldn't become PTs and then all of a sudden become a PT radio DJ again.

9:10 It doesn't make any sense until it does. And it doesn't even make any sense to anybody else. It only needs to make sense to you. Yeah. And it only ever makes sense in retrospect anyways, right? Hindsight. Twenty twenty is like there's a great, great quote by Matthew McConaughey, and he says, we're really bad at knowing what we want, but we're really good at knowing what we don't want. So most of figuring things out is via trial and error. As unfortunate as that sounds is like there's the only shortcut I would say is like having a mentor, somebody that maybe understands your path that you're walking might be the only shortcut. but even then it's like I don't know about you but I know me personally it's like I still need to put my hand on the fire I don't know why but I mean that's just how I learned I guess but yeah I thought you were going to say the Matthew McConaughey quote was all right, all right, all right.

9:56 That's a good one too. It is a good one. All right. So you mentioned that you worked with a decent size people, right? Doctors, tech, whatever. And now you're narrowing down, which I think is good. Explain to everybody what you get to, what do you get to do with those people? Or I should say for with those people, like what do you actually do? In short, I help them break free from the feast and famine cycle. So, ninety nine point nine percent of health care professionals, if you were to ask them, how do you generate leads? How do you get patients? I can almost guarantee you the majority of them will tell you word of mouth referrals and local events. That's almost what every single one of them will tell you, which is fine.

10:36 Those are great. Those are effective. Nothing wrong with those. Those should always be a backbone of a strategy. But the problem with those is they're very time intensive and oftentimes they're incredibly unpredictable. And so you find yourself like you do a bunch of events, you do a bunch of networking, you maybe get some referrals this month and all of a sudden things drop off and then you do it again and again and again and again. So a big part of what we do is we help people with more consistent lead generation. And this often happens, what I would call the Google trifecta. So essentially, if you're a local business, which is predominantly what we work with is like PTs or Kairos in the local area, is like the three things you want to guarantee consistent leads is you want to have a well-optimized website, SEO related type things.

11:21 You want to have paid ads and you want to have a good Google business profile, which means like reviews and fully filled out. If you have those three things, I can pretty consistently tell you, depending on where you live, is that we can almost guarantee you that you're going to have a consistent flow of leads through those things because those are attracting essentially people that are seeking your services. They're seeking out chiropractor near me or PT near me. If you're going to be ranked at the top, you're going to be the one that's selected and people are going to choose you. And so that's a big part of what we do, honestly, in a nutshell. All right, let's talk about something that sometimes I feel like if you ask a hundred people in marketing communications, whatever it is that you want to call it, you and I do similarly but differently.

12:03 The word is brand. Right. I feel like if you ask a hundred people like what it is, I'm not going to ask you what it is. Cause we could pontificate for, you can just talk. I wound up talking to myself in a circle, but what goes into a brand that actually attracts patients in your opinion? Like what are, and the flip side of that question would be like, what are providers usually getting wrong with brand? Perfect, great question. I mean, I have a perfect case study that literally just happened. So before brand, you have to understand positioning. So a brand is only as good as the position it is in the market. For example, I recently worked with a physical therapist who, where is he? Somewhere in Tennessee. I can't remember what city it was, but...

12:44 They were this perfect example of a little bit more broad, a little bit more just serving the local area. They're for the most part, we're doing pretty good. They're creating decent content and they were getting their Google business reviews and they were getting referrals and they were doing events and they were doing what would seem like a lot of good things. But they were missing this piece that you're hitting on perfectly is this idea of brand. And really what it came down to is like they weren't really positioned in the market to be the obvious choice for somebody seeking their services. So what we did is we essentially figured out, okay, they loved working with runners specifically. They loved the running clubs. The practitioners within the clinic like running. Their patients got the best results when they came in with running issues. So we basically positioned them as the go-to experts of running physical therapy in their local area.

13:29 And then we created an entire brand around that specifically. So if you go to their website, you'll see that it's like people running. All the vocabulary is talking about running. They have testimonials about runners that were able to have an IT band injury and get back to running. And so we basically just created the brand that would most resonate with that specific person. And now they're like known as the PT runners within their local area. and that brand precedes itself. So like now if there's anybody in the local area at a run club, it's a very obvious choice subconsciously or consciously in their brain. They're like, you should go to XYZ because they work with runners with knee injuries or whatever the hell the issue is. But yeah. Can you have multiple brands in one clinic, though?

14:12 So I have an opinion on this. So it's like if you have six PTs, right, you don't all need to be the running PT. So I think somebody said it way better than me, so I'll just steal it. Instead of having to have a house of brands, it was a branded house. So they were like, you came here, like you understood physical therapy means this sort of ambiguous term, which is like health or something. And then in that, when you got to their website, it was tell me about you. So you could see sort of elements visually and you knew which way to go because they had three PTs who like to help runners and two PTs that like to help weightlifters. It was like, this is a place for athletes. And then tell it, then, then go a little deeper, which is runners are over here.

14:54 We got you. And weightlifters are over here and the CrossFitters back there and you're good. Yeah, I think definitely. And I think it also depends on what you wanna build as well. Because like to play off of that a little bit is that if you, so like, let's say you have a practitioner within your clinic that is really good in, maybe they're not great at running. Maybe they're maybe more interested in, we'll say CrossFit or, cause they actually, the same clinic does, this is a great example actually. So this exact same clinic also love to work with CrossFit athletes. And so there is a piece within that where like, if there's a clinician within that, Clinic that really loves working with CrossFit athletes and they're willing to quote-unquote build that brand within the within the organization thousand percent like that that can happen like I mean you see this with corporate companies all the time is like you can be under a corporate umbrella brand but if you love rock climbing and you want to build an association with your name and your practice personally with other rock climbers you can really definitely do that like my favorite analogy I know you didn't want to play this game but like my favorite analogy of like understanding what a brand is, is like, I just call it an association.

16:01 That's really all it is. Like oftentimes people just use the reputation, but it's like, what's the association that you want to have at the end of the day? And that can be at the individual level of somebody within the business, or that could be at the more umbrella level of like, what do we represent within an umbrella? But it's just creating an association in someone's brain. And I think the most important thing for like anyone, for the listener to understand is that everything you do creates an association in somebody's brain. Every piece of content, every color of a logo that you choose, every interaction you have with a patient, these are all created in association or reputation in someone's brain. And so it's like, just be conscious of that. So like, if you really want to attract a certain person is like, well, then do things that that certain person would want to be associated with, right?

16:48 Like that's how I explain it anyways. Yeah. I mean, this is something that is innate, I think, to marketers, right? or communicators in radio. We used to have Keith at the radio station. I worked with, worked at last in Northeast Pennsylvania. We had Keith and we did that stupid exercise where we built an avatar. We knew everything about Keith. And the point wasn't the exercise of the avatar building. And, you know, we knew which we picked a local high school that Keith went to and he married his high school sweetheart and he likes these bars and these bands and yada, yada. The fun part was six months later when we had a really hard question about what to do next or how to present this. We just said, would Keith think this is cool? And as dumb as I thought the exercise was as a twenty two year old listening to my boss, then six months later is when I actually got it.

17:35 I was like, oh, I'm able to easily make this decision. Keith would think this is stupid. So the answer is don't do it. But don't get in our own head like, OK, I'm going to put my marketing hat on. I didn't. I put Keith's hat on and said, would you think this is cool or lame? The answer was lame. Don't do it. Don't even try to do it. Do something different. I've even heard of people going as far as printing out a billboard or like a cutout. I mean, not a billboard, like a cutout of the person, quote unquote, and then having that in their office or whatever it is. Just as a constant reminder, actually, there's a company that I know very well that did this. So a lot of the websites we would build on is a platform called Webflow. And I was able to meet the founder. Super cool guy. He came to Austin for South by Southwest. But That was one of the things that he talked about on a keynote that he did was that they literally like when they started Webflow, the company, which is, I think, evaluated at like, God, it's a lot.

18:25 I don't want to say be with a billion, but I could have swore that was the last I heard. But they were able like how there's like, how do you do that? And it was like, well, we got very clear on our avatar to the point where they our mentors had us print out a cutout of who it was. And every time we had a decision, like you said, we looked at the cutout and we go, what would they want? And that's how we made our decisions. And it's stunningly, it feels like an oversimplification, but it's not. Because in radio or in website design, without Keith or whoever their avatar was, we don't exist. It's just us talking to the void or that person offering a bunch of tools that no one uses. So if you stop paying attention to that customer, and I think that's a bad word in healthcare sometimes, seen as it is.

19:11 Well, customer's like, I'm the expert. I'm here to tell you what you need. And that consumer or customer is gonna go, oh yeah? And they're not gonna stick around or they're gonna come and not like that experience because you built it for the wrong person. You built it for you. To me, that's a big mistake. Yeah. And it's especially in the health care industry is I mean, like if you look at any giant health care conglomerate, that's exactly what you describe is exactly how it feels for most people is that they don't even feel like they are the ones that getting the care. It feels like I'm just doing whatever I'm supposed to be told. And here's this prescription and just follow this rudimentary thing. And no question why no one's getting better.

19:53 Shocker. Yeah. Yeah. You shouldn't be surprised. You talk a lot about websites needing to convert, not just look pretty. Right. So let's talk about must have because I want someone who's listening right now to go, oh, I got like two out of three of those, but not the third. So what are must have elements you think every clinic specific website needs to move someone from browsing to booking and walking in the door? Yeah, so when I first got into this industry, it was as an OT transitioning into my first job gig or whatever was essentially freelance website design. And in my brain, I had this idea that like, you just need a pretty website. And so I'll never forget my very first client that I actually worked with.

20:36 She was a health coach in my local city. I actually just happened to find her on Google Maps. and I shot her a cold message, and I was like, hey, I think I can do some things to your website to make it look better, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And she was super sweet. I still talk to her to this day. She's an incredible human. And I did send things to her website. And to be super transparent with you, this was about five years ago, it is very unlikely that anything I did, even remotely, drop drove business to the like it you know I mean like yeah I made some changes it might have looked better but in regards to like actually affecting what everybody wants which is revenue within their business not a chance and it's because like at the time I didn't understand that like a website is just a tool at the end of the day and it's like every scenario is different in how you use the tool and so I would say there's really three things that we look at on every single website and it's traffic conversions and trust, essentially.

21:35 And there's many ways to attack these problems. But for the most part, if you don't have anybody going to your website, kind of back to my example about having just a pretty website, who cares? This is literally like having a clinic in the middle of Bodunk, Alaska, with no road to it. Great, that's awesome that you have a clinic there. Maybe it looks super awesome, but if nobody's going to it, it is a complete waste. And that's what most people do. And that was honestly what I thought about in terms of websites as well, is that I thought it was like the classic build it and they will come. I promise you, they will definitely not come. So the first thing you understand is like, do you have traffic to your site? Now that we have traffic to the site, the next thing you need to consider is like, how do we convert it?

22:15 The most basic thing that anybody can do, which is funny to me because I audit websites all the time, and these are literally the simplest thing that you could do to just, if you did nothing else but this thing that I'm about to tell you next, I guarantee you would increase conversions, assuming you have traffic to your website. And you need to answer three questions when somebody immediately adds on your website. It's what do you do, what problem do you solve, and what action do you want people to take next? Example, that previous example that I gave you before in terms of the physical therapist, we do physical therapy in, I think they're in Knoxville, in Knoxville, Tennessee. We help runners get back to running. That's a bad example, but something along those lines. Click this button to schedule an appointment, book a call, download this lead magnet, whatever it is, right?

22:57 Very simple. Seventy percent of traffic never makes it past the top of a website anyways. So everything else you do on the website is probably super cool. Other than that, it's probably not that important. And then the other thing, too, is the third thing I was going to hit on is trust is that there's no arguing that the strongest. I guess the lever that you can pull in trust building is some sort of reviews, testimonials of some form. This could come in Google business reviews where you literally put like how many reviews you have on the website. This could come in people like with a video, this could come in text. Not all trust and testimonials are created equal. So it's really important to remember that is that if you just have a text on there, people are less likely to trust it.

23:38 If you think about your own shopping behaviors versus if you have like a third party on there like Yelp reviews or Google reviews or something that's on a third party, way way way higher trust because they know that it's actually a legitimate human and was probably vetted on some level um but if you have those three things guaranteed that you're going to convert more convert more I like that that felt actionable and everybody likes threes like stooges and blind mice and but honestly like you get it like the same as like exercise prescription or task it's like if we give them twenty things to do they're gonna do zero if you give them three you got a chance So that's what I like. So you did mention that feast or famine cycle. What's one low-hanging marketing move someone might make this week to get momentum?

24:20 Just one simple thing. I mean, because changing the website isn't simple. I should say it's simple, but it's not easy. That's going to take some time and investment, and you should. But what's something quick that they could do? Give me something like candy, something short and sweet. I mean, this is, this might be an amazing thing for some, and this might be lame for others, but I would argue that again, I, I audit a lot of clinics and a lot of practices, and this is one of the most like low hanging fruit in terms of it blows my mind when people don't do this. Um, a well filled out Google business profile. It's honestly like it's relatively simple. You literally just like fill it out. Make sure you have some decent photos in there.

25:01 Make sure you have your name and your address and your hours. Make sure it looks friendly. You can even do these things on there. A lot of people actually don't know this is that you can actually post updates on Google business profiles. And so you could do this like just like social media, like you could literally do this once a week. And this actually helps rank you higher on Google. And one of the biggest factors by far in terms of getting ranked on Google is literally just having reviews. Assuming you've been around for a little bit, having some way to get reviews or reaching out to old clients or customers to get those reviews. If you like number one, I would say set up the business profile, like completely fill it out and then spend the rest of the week getting at least fifty Google reviews as fast as humanly possible.

25:43 That's such a low hanging fruit. It's unbelievable. Love that. Listen, all right. You've interviewed a lot of successful clinic owners. You've talked to a lot of them. What's one thing they all seem to get about marketing that sets them apart? Is there like a common thread amongst the people that are successful? Is there something that you can, I don't know, you know, spot in the first five, ten minutes of listening to them and sort of teasing things out that you're like, okay, okay, we got a chance here. Man, that is such a good question. Yeah, I think it goes back to what you were mentioning earlier of understanding who you serve. And I can speak from like my own pains and struggles and even like a lot of the people that I talk to is that if you have, here's some red flags, is like if you have multiple businesses, I'm concerned about you.

26:31 If you have, if it's like what do you do and you talk about like the seven different services that you offer, I'm concerned about you, right? If it's like, how consistently are you engaging with your clients and customers? And it's like once in a while, I'm concerned with you, right? It's like, really what we're looking for is just to be so hyper niche focused on who we serve and what specific problem that we help them solve. Every other challenge that most people deal with gets a thousand times easier in terms of like, what sort of marketing should we do? Or how should we position ourselves in the market? Or what sort of content should we create? Or who should we be reaching out to? What sort of events should we attend? It's like all those questions get so much easier and so much simpler when you're hyper-focused.

27:13 And I know we already talked about it earlier in this episode, and it seems very rudimentary, but it always shocks me how few people... Some people will tell you... I think people want to believe that they have it figured out, but they haven't actually put in the hours to really figure it out and to really have conversations with them and to really listen and understand their pain points. And even if you didn't, here's a real simple way to figure it out. AI. Go on AI and be like, here's my person that at this moment that I think I really want to help and serve. What are all their challenges, pain points and struggles? That's a really good place to start. And now you actually have some idea of how to help them. It's a great, it's a great sounding board. I like that.

27:53 All right. We're going to do speed round. Corey, are you ready for speed round? Bring it. Let's do it. All right, we're gonna do hit or hype. Corey, I'm gonna give you common healthcare marketing trends and you gotta call out whether they're worth the juice, a hit, or just overhyped noise, hype. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right, number one, Instagram reels are the best way, best way to grow your practice. Is that a hit or a hype? Total hype. All right, it's nice, right? I'm sure it could be part of the mix, but it can't be, I said best, it can't be the best. Can I, I know this is rapid fire, but yeah, I want to spit for one second on that. So there's a difference between interruption marketing and capture marketing essentially.

28:36 And so social media is a great form of like interrupting somebody, somebody scrolling and they're like, oh my God, there's a clinic near me. That's really interesting, but I don't really care that much because I'm doing other things and I just want to be entertained. Versus capture marketing, which is like the SEO and the Google business profile things where it's like somebody is like searching to solve a problem way easier to convert than a social media. Social media works, but it's a different strategy. It's much more long tail. There's a lot more nurturing versus capturing is like somebody wants you like today and they're willing to call you way easier to convert. So different. All right. Number two on the list. Your logo, Corey, is the most important part of your brand. Is it the most important part? Hit hype. Nobody cares. Yeah, you care. I think the owners care. And like, yeah, well, what does this image say about me?

29:17 It's like people barely look at it. I think a good one, like once you find it, I think the good one is the one you've used for a while, as long as it's not bad and bad is subjective. Yeah, nobody cares. All right, here's the next one. Hit or hype. Google reviews are better than SEO. You've got to pick one. Is Google review better than SEO? Hit. One's got to stay, one's got to go. Yeah, I'd say so. Because like... Back to my earlier point, social proof is the biggest factor in today's world. People are so sick of being like scammed and trust is a huge issue for a lot of people. And Google reviews is by far one of the highest ranking factors for trust building. And so I mean, all the clinics that I work with, the ones that are crushing it and like pushing several figures have like gone hard on getting like hundreds of Google reviews for a reason.

30:03 Smart, smart hitter hype. Tick tock is where all the new patients are, Corey. Depends on your business. Oh, I like that. Yeah, you can go depends. You can go depends. I mean, if your patients are young, I mean, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. All right. Last one. Email marketing is dead. Hit or hype? A total hype. There's not a chance. It's still the most powerful marketing by far. It's deep. It's deep. And if you give value, you can get attention. I love these two phrases. Pay attention. Spend time. And everybody's like, they're obvious.

30:43 I'm like, it's pay and spend attention and time. You got to give one to get the other. And it's got to be worth it. It doesn't mean monetary all the time either. Pay attention. The pay and pay attention could be like good information. A thirty two minute podcast episode that felt like I got more information than the time I needed to give to get it. So it's a good it's email marketing. I agree. Certainly not dead. Corey, last thing we do on every episode is called the parting shot. Last chance for a mic drop moment, soapbox statement, anything. What do you want to leave with the audience as we wrap up? Hmm. Man, I guess I wasn't prepared for a mic drop moment. And you can repeat like an adage or something you'd want on your tombstone. You can repeat something you said before.

31:24 It doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be brand spanking new. Money monetizes once and skills or relationships monetize forever. This was something that I was taught younger when I was a mentor, and it completely changed how I approach life and business in general. I think most people are familiar with the concept of the infinite game, and I can't echo that statement enough in regards to your life and your business. When I talk to people that have been in business with other people for forty, fifty years, It changes how you approach every interaction you have with that's rather a partner or a customer. And so, yeah, I would just echo that statement again. It was advice that was given to me and I hope it resonates with somebody else of money monetizes once, but skills and relationships monetize forever.

32:07 Love it. Corey, if someone was like, hey, listen, this guy knows what he's talking about. Where do I go connect with him? Where do you want to send people? Well, I'm stupidly active on LinkedIn. Um, so if you have a LinkedIn account, I'm obnoxiously active on that platform. So that'd be super cool. Um, otherwise I have a podcast of my own. Uh, basically everything you can find is on my personal website, which is Corey high.com. All right, Corey, I appreciate the time. And we'll, we'll, I feel like, I feel like having Corey back on the show and we might actually have an Austin trip in the near future this summer. And if we do, I don't know if you smell that. I smell live podcast. I'm in. I'll bring you on. We'll talk. Sounds great. Corey, thanks so much for stopping by, man. Appreciate it.