Can Cash Pay PT Actually Scale?

WEBVTT

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Broadcasting way too early from three

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separate Wi-Fi connections.

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It's PT Breakfast Club with Tony Meritato,

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Dave Kittle, and Jimmy McKay.

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All right,

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fresh out of bed after dragging myself out

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of bed after a beer league hockey game.

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That's Tony Meritato.

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Dave Kittle will be joining in a moment.

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Tony, you wanted to lead off with...

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with this image that i just downloaded

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from our little group chat what like set

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us up what is that yeah so i

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was looking through you know the headlines

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and what's out there specifically related

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to private practice and business topics uh

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productivity is always a big topic and you

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know

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i there are references for where these

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numbers come from but i know you and

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larry ben's have been talking about stats

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and i can tell you i don't know

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fifteen years ago when we were multiple

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locations and big administrative team

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everything was run on stats like that's

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what we did you know percent of arrivals

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and percent of completed plans of care and

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how's everybody doing

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Now we don't do any of that stuff,

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but I figured, hey,

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let's talk about some of these numbers.

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Let's see what is being presented and

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maybe how accurate it is.

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All right,

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so we're looking at PT productivity

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benchmarks by practice type.

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I feel like, too,

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a lot of times people will come into

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these group chats,

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these Facebook groups that we're in,

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and say, what's good productivity?

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And then, of course,

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the next question always is,

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what setting are you in?

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There's a lot of context here in terms

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of productivity.

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So this little chart is showing outpatient

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activity.

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Private practice, outpatient,

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chain slash corporate,

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cash-based or concierge,

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hospital outpatient, sports med,

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and then a high-volume mill.

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I wonder if this person's biased when they

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just call it high-volume mill.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I'm surprised they didn't lump corporate

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into high volume mill.

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But you know, this is coming from like,

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it's called Proactive Charts.

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It's basically like an EMR kind of

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company.

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And you know,

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they're looking at what are the

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productivity targets.

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I think they're pretty, pretty dead on.

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Like looking at outpatient private

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practice,

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seventy five to eighty five percent

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productivity

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They do break it down by visit number.

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So they're like eight to twelve visits a

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day.

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They're saying this is a typical five day

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week.

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So you're assuming eight hours a day.

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Three to four billable units per visit,

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one hundred and sixty to two hundred

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units.

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I would tell you that's typical for what

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I would have expected from my clinical

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team when we were at multiple locations.

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Uh,

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Dave you're in any thoughts on that kind

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of now it's brick and mortar one location.

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People are coming to you.

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This also has to account for, okay,

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maybe you schedule and three cancel or no

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shows.

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So you end up, you know, doing.

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Um, Dave,

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what's been your experience with numbers

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like this?

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Yeah.

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I mean,

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pretty consistent numbers like this from

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my first.

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First three years out of school was

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outpatient ortho in New Jersey and then

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another two years in Brooklyn,

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outpatient ortho.

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Very similar.

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Nothing surprising here.

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And actually,

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some clinicians were kind of billing close

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to like three point five to four units

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per visit.

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And then there were others that like

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either didn't care or weren't trained well

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enough or were not reminded often enough

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or whatever,

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because like

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There's a lot of folks like Sturdy McKee

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and others that will always say physical

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therapists never overbill.

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They're so risk averse.

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They're afraid.

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There's some physical therapists that will

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chronically bill two or three units per

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visit

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And the patient's there for an hour or

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two.

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It could even be like late stage ACL

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patient.

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And they're there in the clinic for like

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an hour and a half, two hours.

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And they're still only building like two

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or three units or something.

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So that's obviously on the owner or the

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managers to like coach therapists and

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retrain them.

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maybe maybe maybe they don't need to be

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there anymore or whatever like you have to

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be you have to bill for what you

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actually do uh so i mean but again

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the numbers overall um pretty pretty

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consistent from what i've seen how about

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the third third line cash concierge is

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that pretty in line with what your people

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are doing that seems high to what you've

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said

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yeah that's definitely high dave if you

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can't see it it's six to ten visits

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a day four to six units per visit

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but cash is not based on units so

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that's kind of messed up uh yeah a

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hundred and twenty to a hundred and eighty

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units a week it says the big key

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success factors for cash extended sessions

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premium pricing low overhead what would

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you say your key success fact i would

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just from hearing dave talk i wouldn't say

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that

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Those are not the success factors.

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I would say it's ease of scheduling.

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You come to me.

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Premium pricing is what allows that

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patient to have that.

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Extended sessions.

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How long are your sessions typically?

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Is it an hour?

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For us or for Tony?

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For you, Dave.

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yeah an hour of course so it doesn't

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even matter it doesn't matter if it's

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clinic because we're because what what's

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what's so funny is it an hour of

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course nothing nothing well no because you

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all you guys already know yeah but i

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didn't know if it was like extended if

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like sometimes people did did more

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No.

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I mean, in the future, like if Ethan,

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my new therapist is doing like,

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if he's treating multiple patients at the

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same time,

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like if he has an ACL client from

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like nine to ten a.m.,

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if they're at the point where they need

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to do a lot of plyos or late

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stage, whatever, then like at ten a.m.,

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his next patient's coming into the clinic.

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And if that first patient from nine a.m.

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needs to do more and they're independent

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and they don't need a lot of like

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cues or assistance or oversight or

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whatever.

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then he can like go into our private

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room, treat the ten a.m.

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patient.

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But the nine a.m.

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patient is still out in the clinic.

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Maybe.

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I mean, again,

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it's a little different because we're not

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billing insurance and we don't have to

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worry about like the I guess like the

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direct or indirect supervision type of

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stuff.

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But in general, in general,

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all of our clients know that.

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It's one-on-one for the entire hour.

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And so as soon as like that next

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client comes in, like they're out skis.

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Like there's no like, you know,

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sit on the bike and just do,

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you know,

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thirty minutes on your own or whatever

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kind of thing.

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Like it's obviously for home visits,

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it's a lot easier.

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But I know we're talking about the clinic.

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And then what have you guys seen?

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How accurate is that high volume mill?

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It feels pretty accurate from what I've

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seen.

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Just people sort of complaining about

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anyways.

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Visits per day,

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fifteen to twenty four plus three hundred

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to four hundred and twenty units a week.

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That's consistent for me in two states.

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And I worked or I shadowed and did

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rotations in Philly,

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in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania.

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So that's three states in the last ten,

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fifteen years or something like that.

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So that's pretty consistent for me.

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I don't know.

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Yeah, I would agree.

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There's two issues here.

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You've got the business model and then

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you've got the compliance legal aspect in

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indefinitely in models that don't track or

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aren't subject to the CPT code billing

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guidelines.

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So CPT code says one on one doesn't

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matter if it's Medicare,

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you're expected to deliver a billable

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minute of time to one person.

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You can't deliver that billable minute to

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three people.

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But if you step outside of that,

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you look at athletic facilities that have

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PTs on staff,

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you look at certain workers comp

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situations,

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you look at other environments, military,

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you can easily see a therapist doing

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twenty five visits in a day.

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You know,

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you're not subject to the same legal

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limitations as in a typical insurance

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based model.

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And I think the patients do great.

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Now, of course,

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are we talking about a brain injury that

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has multiple complexities,

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medical instability and things like that?

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I was in the clinic yesterday with a

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new patient

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Very complex for me.

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Very complex case.

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I could not possibly do two or three

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of those at a time.

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But in a normal situation,

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person comes in,

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they've got a little shoulder pain.

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They don't need my dedicated attention,

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you know,

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so we have to put context around this.

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I don't think twenty five in a day

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is a big deal.

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I just don't.

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And the thing is,

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we go back to what what

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What actually happens?

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I can tell you from twenty five years

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of experience in my clinic,

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you have a busy block, ten to eleven,

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man,

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you're slammed and there's all these

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people and people are popping in and

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showing up.

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But then at two o'clock,

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you're sitting there staring at each

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other.

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I have never met to this day,

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including myself,

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when I put myself in the employee role,

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I don't appreciate the one hour block of

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dead time or the cancellation or the no

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show.

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All I think about is, man,

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we were so busy at ten o'clock.

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But when you look at the numbers and

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you say, wait a minute,

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I got paid for forty hours.

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I got paid for a minimum of one

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hundred and sixty units of billable time.

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We lose track of the ten,

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fifteen minutes in the morning.

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We lose track of the ten or fifteen

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minutes after the last billable unit.

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We lose track of the thirty minutes of

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non billable lunchtime like we lose track

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as the employee.

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of all of the stuff that we're getting

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paid for that we're not generating revenue

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for.

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And it feels air quotes, feels very hard.

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I hate when people say this feels hard,

00:10:06.623 --> 00:10:08.562
but we're not generate we're running in

00:10:08.623 --> 00:10:08.863
mud.

00:10:08.883 --> 00:10:10.844
We're not generating any any kind of

00:10:10.943 --> 00:10:13.085
benefit for the company, the patient,

00:10:13.144 --> 00:10:16.066
the employer or me as the employee.

00:10:16.086 --> 00:10:18.988
Right.

00:10:19.467 --> 00:10:20.847
Where does that disconnect is?

00:10:20.967 --> 00:10:22.048
Is it going through school?

00:10:23.245 --> 00:10:24.928
Like you're being trained for one thing

00:10:25.009 --> 00:10:26.350
and then life is a different thing.

00:10:26.511 --> 00:10:27.472
Like what does that look like?

00:10:28.174 --> 00:10:28.875
I think that's part of it.

00:10:30.005 --> 00:10:31.967
yeah i i think that's part of it

00:10:32.048 --> 00:10:34.109
i think it's the idealism of you know

00:10:34.208 --> 00:10:36.971
i'm i'm here like again you go back

00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:39.293
to all right a cash pt who's doing

00:10:39.533 --> 00:10:43.677
four visits a day uh that's awesome but

00:10:43.736 --> 00:10:45.798
like what kind of volume is how do

00:10:45.837 --> 00:10:48.340
we deliver a national service at four

00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:51.162
visits a day with a declining you know

00:10:51.442 --> 00:10:54.725
number of pts in the profession you can't

00:10:54.945 --> 00:10:57.027
like you can be the rolls royce right

00:10:57.067 --> 00:10:59.067
rolls royce doesn't produce as many cars

00:10:59.107 --> 00:10:59.609
as honda

00:11:00.645 --> 00:11:02.767
But if you want people driving cars,

00:11:02.807 --> 00:11:04.067
you need volume.

00:11:04.086 --> 00:11:05.207
You need production.

00:11:05.248 --> 00:11:06.947
You can't do it in four visits a

00:11:06.988 --> 00:11:08.668
day with a limited staff.

00:11:10.028 --> 00:11:10.389
Why though?

00:11:10.429 --> 00:11:11.210
Let me just push back.

00:11:11.549 --> 00:11:12.269
I get what you're saying.

00:11:12.450 --> 00:11:13.431
It is a smart take.

00:11:13.530 --> 00:11:13.931
I get it.

00:11:15.270 --> 00:11:17.172
One example is Jeff.

00:11:17.807 --> 00:11:21.210
more and and onward i think they might

00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:22.350
have different rates at different

00:11:22.370 --> 00:11:24.211
locations but they have i don't even know

00:11:24.272 --> 00:11:25.312
do you know there's like fifty or a

00:11:25.332 --> 00:11:27.014
hundred or so like different affiliate

00:11:27.053 --> 00:11:28.554
locations like all over the country

00:11:30.135 --> 00:11:33.619
they're growing what is this so so jeff

00:11:33.658 --> 00:11:37.721
moore he started yeah so like and i

00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.403
don't know it's like a licensing model or

00:11:39.423 --> 00:11:41.124
like a branding model or something so he

00:11:42.595 --> 00:11:44.677
The practice owner owns like probably most

00:11:44.716 --> 00:11:44.876
of it.

00:11:44.937 --> 00:11:45.557
I don't know the numbers,

00:11:45.597 --> 00:11:46.357
but I'm just going to make it up.

00:11:46.979 --> 00:11:48.879
The practice owner probably keeps seventy,

00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:51.241
eighty percent of like the income or

00:11:51.261 --> 00:11:53.384
something and probably has to give like

00:11:53.423 --> 00:11:55.105
the top code, like the HQ,

00:11:55.125 --> 00:11:58.948
some like monthly or quarterly like

00:11:59.149 --> 00:12:00.129
royalty fee or whatever,

00:12:00.169 --> 00:12:01.811
like licensing fee for the brand name.

00:12:02.528 --> 00:12:04.629
they have like probably approaching a

00:12:04.669 --> 00:12:05.529
hundred, maybe more.

00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:06.370
And Jeff, I'm sorry,

00:12:06.451 --> 00:12:07.291
like it might be two hundred.

00:12:07.331 --> 00:12:08.871
I'm sorry if I'm like way understating it

00:12:09.611 --> 00:12:10.172
if you hear this,

00:12:10.231 --> 00:12:13.073
but they're probably like I've seen

00:12:13.094 --> 00:12:13.573
different rates.

00:12:13.634 --> 00:12:14.714
I think they're around like one hundred

00:12:14.734 --> 00:12:15.914
and seventy five bucks a visit,

00:12:16.394 --> 00:12:19.275
maybe one ninety something a visit at some

00:12:19.316 --> 00:12:19.797
locations.

00:12:19.836 --> 00:12:21.297
Maybe they're different based off of like

00:12:21.336 --> 00:12:23.538
rural versus metro and things like that.

00:12:24.558 --> 00:12:25.019
That is

00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:26.820
And Jeff has said he said it on

00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:27.259
my show,

00:12:27.301 --> 00:12:29.160
and he said it elsewhere on social media,

00:12:29.181 --> 00:12:32.402
like he's trying to push that in a

00:12:32.481 --> 00:12:33.701
way to I mean,

00:12:33.721 --> 00:12:35.202
it's already like a national brand,

00:12:35.562 --> 00:12:36.842
I believe, which is incredible.

00:12:37.724 --> 00:12:39.923
And like, not even ten years old,

00:12:40.644 --> 00:12:42.485
or something like or eight or something

00:12:42.504 --> 00:12:42.804
like that.

00:12:44.265 --> 00:12:46.066
Dr. Bo is commenting here live.

00:12:46.105 --> 00:12:46.365
He said,

00:12:46.446 --> 00:12:48.047
sixty clinics in twenty two states,

00:12:48.447 --> 00:12:51.327
which is some some really impressive

00:12:51.347 --> 00:12:51.768
momentum.

00:12:52.477 --> 00:12:52.878
Tony,

00:12:53.198 --> 00:12:54.779
would you maybe that's maybe not maybe

00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:55.600
that's not national.

00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:57.662
I mean, sixty and twenty two states.

00:12:57.682 --> 00:12:58.383
That's pretty.

00:12:58.842 --> 00:13:00.083
I mean, that's halfway to national.

00:13:00.325 --> 00:13:01.164
It's more than regional.

00:13:01.205 --> 00:13:04.067
Maybe it is absolutely awesome.

00:13:06.008 --> 00:13:07.808
I don't even think that that would make

00:13:07.869 --> 00:13:10.551
a dent if we're talking population health,

00:13:10.870 --> 00:13:11.072
right?

00:13:11.091 --> 00:13:12.292
If we're talking about getting the

00:13:12.331 --> 00:13:15.153
musculoskeletal services out to the people

00:13:15.173 --> 00:13:15.815
who need it.

00:13:16.274 --> 00:13:18.277
I've run the numbers multiple times,

00:13:18.317 --> 00:13:21.339
like three hundred ish thousand licensed

00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:24.421
therapists relative to the three hundred

00:13:24.461 --> 00:13:26.422
and thirty million Americans.

00:13:26.442 --> 00:13:26.701
You know,

00:13:26.721 --> 00:13:28.023
you look at the numbers of how many

00:13:28.062 --> 00:13:29.784
of those Americans would need or benefit

00:13:29.804 --> 00:13:31.004
from musculoskeletal health.

00:13:31.426 --> 00:13:32.566
What's the size of the market?

00:13:33.726 --> 00:13:35.388
These are drops in the bucket still.

00:13:36.389 --> 00:13:38.730
And this is where Hinge, Sword,

00:13:38.789 --> 00:13:40.751
digital platforms are going to come in and

00:13:40.792 --> 00:13:41.371
pick it up.

00:13:41.912 --> 00:13:43.432
They're going to take off with it.

00:13:44.153 --> 00:13:45.533
There's always going to be a place for

00:13:45.575 --> 00:13:46.975
the little guys like us.

00:13:47.115 --> 00:13:49.576
And little guy could be sixty locations.

00:13:50.197 --> 00:13:52.979
But it's just it's one of those things

00:13:53.038 --> 00:13:55.000
where we are such a tiny speck on

00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:55.740
the radar.

00:13:56.500 --> 00:13:59.043
I think it's easier we disappear than it

00:13:59.123 --> 00:14:01.283
is that we expand to, you know,

00:14:01.303 --> 00:14:02.424
the size of McDonald's.

00:14:04.534 --> 00:14:05.514
That it's easier to do that?

00:14:06.855 --> 00:14:08.576
It's easier to disappear than expand to

00:14:08.596 --> 00:14:09.057
McDonald's?

00:14:09.476 --> 00:14:11.138
We're closer to disappearing versus

00:14:11.217 --> 00:14:12.118
growing to McDonald's size.

00:14:12.138 --> 00:14:14.078
Yes, I think we're closer to disappearing.

00:14:15.099 --> 00:14:16.659
Okay.

00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:19.821
So one thing that you said was the

00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:21.741
amount of people across the country that,

00:14:21.961 --> 00:14:23.743
did you say that want it or need

00:14:23.783 --> 00:14:23.883
it?

00:14:24.163 --> 00:14:25.543
Because there's a very big distinction.

00:14:26.104 --> 00:14:27.484
Need it, would benefit from it.

00:14:27.504 --> 00:14:29.345
And I was very specific about that.

00:14:29.404 --> 00:14:29.644
Yeah.

00:14:30.044 --> 00:14:30.304
Right.

00:14:30.546 --> 00:14:33.787
And the people that work with us want

00:14:33.826 --> 00:14:33.927
it.

00:14:34.657 --> 00:14:35.298
And they need it.

00:14:35.717 --> 00:14:37.879
There's, I mean, I think.

00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:40.520
Ninety percent of people walking on any

00:14:40.581 --> 00:14:42.121
sidewalk anywhere in the country could

00:14:42.162 --> 00:14:43.442
benefit from one,

00:14:43.783 --> 00:14:46.063
just one out-of-pocket physical therapy

00:14:46.083 --> 00:14:46.303
visit.

00:14:46.325 --> 00:14:47.105
Call it a tune-up,

00:14:47.345 --> 00:14:48.405
call it an annual physical,

00:14:48.666 --> 00:14:50.746
a body diagnostic, whatever, you know,

00:14:50.767 --> 00:14:52.869
wrapping paper you want to put on it.

00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:57.591
Movement, balance, screen, muscle, screen,

00:14:57.611 --> 00:14:58.511
whatever you want to call it.

00:14:58.572 --> 00:15:01.474
Joint, joint analysis, walking,

00:15:01.994 --> 00:15:02.595
walking check.

00:15:03.148 --> 00:15:05.788
uh gate whatever gate posture stepping

00:15:06.109 --> 00:15:10.610
step stepping protocol whatever yeah most

00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:12.390
most yeah i mean here here in new

00:15:12.410 --> 00:15:13.851
york city i'm brooklyn i'm in this i'm

00:15:13.892 --> 00:15:15.672
in manhattan like there's so many people

00:15:15.692 --> 00:15:17.033
that are like just hobbling around it's

00:15:17.052 --> 00:15:18.812
like that's a that's an old thing like

00:15:18.832 --> 00:15:20.734
that's been you've had some you've had

00:15:20.774 --> 00:15:22.653
some dysfunction for like five or ten or

00:15:22.734 --> 00:15:25.095
twenty something years right and that

00:15:25.134 --> 00:15:26.995
person still could benefit from one visit

00:15:27.056 --> 00:15:29.256
and the the difference tony i i agree

00:15:29.277 --> 00:15:30.476
with you for the most part but

00:15:31.937 --> 00:15:34.078
You're saying we can't grow it big enough

00:15:34.099 --> 00:15:38.043
for the people that want it or need

00:15:38.363 --> 00:15:38.563
it.

00:15:38.803 --> 00:15:39.644
Everyone needs it,

00:15:39.845 --> 00:15:42.126
but people that don't want even the

00:15:42.167 --> 00:15:44.948
current in-network experience,

00:15:44.969 --> 00:15:46.571
that's why ninety percent of people drop

00:15:46.671 --> 00:15:46.870
off.

00:15:46.971 --> 00:15:48.893
Maybe there is some disconnect with value

00:15:48.952 --> 00:15:51.154
in the volume-based clinics and all that.

00:15:51.735 --> 00:15:53.157
But if you're paying a twenty dollar copay

00:15:53.317 --> 00:15:55.578
only and you're still dropping off from an

00:15:55.658 --> 00:15:57.320
in-network plan of care somewhere in the

00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:57.701
country,

00:15:58.876 --> 00:15:59.758
And it happens in enough,

00:16:00.038 --> 00:16:01.399
pretty much every state.

00:16:01.419 --> 00:16:03.761
So it's not so much that the people

00:16:04.121 --> 00:16:05.363
don't need it.

00:16:05.403 --> 00:16:06.464
They absolutely need it,

00:16:06.524 --> 00:16:08.066
but it's a smaller amount of people that

00:16:08.466 --> 00:16:11.990
want it and are serious about it or

00:16:12.049 --> 00:16:13.211
serious about their health and wellness

00:16:13.350 --> 00:16:14.772
and understand that they want to trade

00:16:14.932 --> 00:16:17.615
some amount of dollars for that value or

00:16:17.875 --> 00:16:18.796
they don't see the value.

00:16:18.855 --> 00:16:20.378
I mean, there's many things here.

00:16:22.023 --> 00:16:22.823
Yeah.

00:16:22.844 --> 00:16:23.083
Yeah.

00:16:23.264 --> 00:16:24.466
I just think it's one of those things.

00:16:24.546 --> 00:16:26.749
We don't have enough capacity within the

00:16:26.788 --> 00:16:27.289
system,

00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:29.552
especially if somebody wants to keep doing

00:16:29.653 --> 00:16:32.475
one hour sessions or longer.

00:16:32.495 --> 00:16:34.958
There's plenty of individuals just in the

00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:37.022
system right now that could do ten minutes

00:16:37.062 --> 00:16:39.804
and do just as well as if they

00:16:39.825 --> 00:16:40.326
got an hour.

00:16:41.481 --> 00:16:41.902
You know,

00:16:41.961 --> 00:16:44.283
but nobody is moving the needle in that

00:16:44.322 --> 00:16:44.822
direction.

00:16:44.903 --> 00:16:47.203
Nobody is expanding on a very limited

00:16:47.244 --> 00:16:47.725
basis.

00:16:47.745 --> 00:16:48.804
Like in some skill nursing,

00:16:48.845 --> 00:16:51.385
they're going to more group interventions.

00:16:51.985 --> 00:16:54.086
I think even that, like, and, you know,

00:16:54.126 --> 00:16:56.528
with what Onward has done and people

00:16:56.548 --> 00:16:57.908
within that organization,

00:16:58.908 --> 00:17:00.730
I do think they're moving into because

00:17:00.750 --> 00:17:02.169
it's an athletic population,

00:17:02.190 --> 00:17:03.370
an active population.

00:17:03.890 --> 00:17:05.413
they are moving a little bit away from

00:17:05.453 --> 00:17:08.117
the one on one and they're doing group

00:17:08.137 --> 00:17:09.740
sessions and it's more looking like a

00:17:09.800 --> 00:17:12.785
CrossFit class in some cases than

00:17:13.266 --> 00:17:14.888
traditional physical therapy.

00:17:16.854 --> 00:17:19.715
But this opens the door to what Dave's

00:17:19.756 --> 00:17:20.717
specialty is,

00:17:20.757 --> 00:17:22.978
talking about private equity moving in,

00:17:23.018 --> 00:17:25.819
talking about bringing in funding,

00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.320
bringing in business models.

00:17:27.741 --> 00:17:29.823
I don't think they've said,

00:17:29.962 --> 00:17:34.086
and I remember Zach Long and Jeff talking

00:17:34.105 --> 00:17:35.906
about Onward when they were just starting,

00:17:36.548 --> 00:17:38.288
I think they bootstrapped the whole thing.

00:17:38.348 --> 00:17:39.410
I don't think they brought in

00:17:39.890 --> 00:17:41.731
private equity or got funding,

00:17:42.311 --> 00:17:45.535
but there's definitely opportunities for

00:17:45.575 --> 00:17:47.395
something like that in the space.

00:17:47.517 --> 00:17:49.417
We see companies that do.

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:51.279
Dave,

00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:52.820
why don't you bring us up to speed

00:17:52.901 --> 00:17:53.682
on some of that?

00:17:54.643 --> 00:17:56.003
Well, I remember,

00:17:56.104 --> 00:17:57.865
I think we talked about it briefly here

00:17:58.065 --> 00:17:58.945
at least a year or two ago.

00:17:59.026 --> 00:17:59.406
If not,

00:17:59.446 --> 00:18:01.949
it was myself and Jeff Moore on my

00:18:01.989 --> 00:18:02.148
show.

00:18:03.282 --> 00:18:05.523
the way that they got all their affiliates

00:18:05.564 --> 00:18:07.464
to open up locations of onward physical

00:18:07.525 --> 00:18:09.865
therapy almost all of them came through

00:18:09.925 --> 00:18:12.666
jeff moore's continuing education course

00:18:12.707 --> 00:18:15.709
which was the ice institute of clinical

00:18:15.808 --> 00:18:19.250
excellence and they would know uh they

00:18:19.270 --> 00:18:20.651
found out like who are like the top

00:18:20.711 --> 00:18:22.951
tier physical therapists who are the

00:18:22.991 --> 00:18:24.813
therapists that like are serious that like

00:18:24.972 --> 00:18:28.555
ask very like very like

00:18:29.183 --> 00:18:31.025
discerning questions and the ones that are

00:18:31.065 --> 00:18:33.465
like really they care about the craft and

00:18:33.486 --> 00:18:36.146
like building their skills and they're

00:18:36.207 --> 00:18:38.106
engaged not necessarily someone who just

00:18:38.186 --> 00:18:40.748
does all the courses through ice just to

00:18:40.788 --> 00:18:45.190
do them um but they would find people

00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:46.589
that were like the top of the crop

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.211
of the attendees of these courses to then

00:18:49.290 --> 00:18:50.971
open up onward locations and then jeff

00:18:50.991 --> 00:18:53.413
said uh so eventually like jeff used to

00:18:53.692 --> 00:18:54.813
teach a lot of the ice courses then

00:18:54.833 --> 00:18:56.273
eventually he got other instructors so

00:18:56.294 --> 00:18:56.773
then he would

00:18:57.381 --> 00:18:59.061
He would tap on the instructors and say,

00:18:59.142 --> 00:19:03.265
hey, you had Jimmy McKay in this course.

00:19:03.505 --> 00:19:04.246
He reached out about,

00:19:04.645 --> 00:19:05.606
and I'm just making this up,

00:19:06.166 --> 00:19:08.088
wanting to open up an upstate New York

00:19:08.189 --> 00:19:09.229
onward location, whatever.

00:19:09.509 --> 00:19:11.111
And Jeff would be interfacing with the

00:19:11.131 --> 00:19:14.732
instructors to find, hey, Mr. and Mrs.

00:19:14.772 --> 00:19:17.255
Instructor, how was Jimmy in,

00:19:17.694 --> 00:19:19.396
how did he interact with the other

00:19:20.057 --> 00:19:20.576
therapists?

00:19:21.157 --> 00:19:22.117
Was he respectful?

00:19:22.558 --> 00:19:23.439
Did he show up on time?

00:19:23.479 --> 00:19:24.140
Did he sleep?

00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:26.760
during the course that, you know, so that,

00:19:26.901 --> 00:19:28.922
that in itself is like an incredible

00:19:28.981 --> 00:19:32.022
pipeline to find owners and affiliates to

00:19:32.042 --> 00:19:33.663
then open up owner physical therapy.

00:19:34.463 --> 00:19:36.204
Um, I mean, I really,

00:19:36.625 --> 00:19:38.404
I really want to almost like,

00:19:38.424 --> 00:19:39.326
I don't want to say like put a

00:19:39.365 --> 00:19:39.965
fund together.

00:19:39.986 --> 00:19:41.666
I think we could do like acquisition or

00:19:41.686 --> 00:19:43.106
partnership by partnership, but I want to,

00:19:43.846 --> 00:19:47.328
I want to continue to seek partnerships or

00:19:47.368 --> 00:19:49.490
acquisitions of out of network self pay

00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:50.210
practice owners,

00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:52.201
starting in New York city.

00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:53.821
I'm working on a couple of things here,

00:19:54.182 --> 00:19:56.824
but I think Jeff Moore, I'm not,

00:19:56.844 --> 00:19:57.724
you're probably not gonna sell it.

00:19:57.805 --> 00:19:58.826
You're probably not gonna sell it,

00:19:59.205 --> 00:20:01.607
but that could be a great rebrand for

00:20:01.667 --> 00:20:04.150
all the other practices that we

00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:04.770
potentially

00:20:05.836 --> 00:20:08.477
partner with and have a bigger footprint.

00:20:08.517 --> 00:20:09.777
Cause he's already got like a kind of

00:20:09.797 --> 00:20:10.997
like a regional national name.

00:20:11.457 --> 00:20:12.337
And in terms of private equity,

00:20:12.478 --> 00:20:13.478
private equity, like that would,

00:20:13.538 --> 00:20:14.817
that could be one play where you,

00:20:15.178 --> 00:20:15.419
you just,

00:20:15.618 --> 00:20:17.098
you try to just package up all of

00:20:17.118 --> 00:20:19.019
the other practice owners like me that are

00:20:19.058 --> 00:20:21.839
doing either concierge like home visits or

00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:22.859
the one-on-one visits in,

00:20:23.060 --> 00:20:25.840
in outpatient practices,

00:20:25.921 --> 00:20:27.321
just like Onward is already doing.

00:20:27.342 --> 00:20:29.082
And they're pretty much like forty-five

00:20:29.122 --> 00:20:31.482
minutes to sixty minute visits per visit.

00:20:33.092 --> 00:20:35.517
Forty five to sixty minute sessions each

00:20:35.557 --> 00:20:35.857
visit.

00:20:36.538 --> 00:20:37.861
So it's very similar.

00:20:37.942 --> 00:20:40.066
So what was what was Bo saying about

00:20:40.145 --> 00:20:40.405
Frank?

00:20:41.147 --> 00:20:41.828
Frank Benedetto,

00:20:41.868 --> 00:20:42.691
which I'm sure you guys know,

00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:44.674
he's got his honey badger project similar

00:20:44.755 --> 00:20:44.855
to.

00:20:46.673 --> 00:20:48.736
Um, I'm a, I'm a fan of Frank.

00:20:48.816 --> 00:20:50.458
I know I've, I've chatted with him.

00:20:50.498 --> 00:20:51.199
I never spoke with him.

00:20:51.219 --> 00:20:51.798
I messaged him.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:52.720
I've messaged him much.

00:20:53.101 --> 00:20:53.300
Um,

00:20:53.901 --> 00:20:55.563
but he's teaching therapists how to create

00:20:56.044 --> 00:20:59.007
digital courses and how to, how to sell.

00:21:00.448 --> 00:21:01.388
I think he did that.

00:21:01.489 --> 00:21:02.769
I think he, well, he,

00:21:02.971 --> 00:21:04.491
he used to poo poo a lot on

00:21:05.292 --> 00:21:06.374
outpatient mills.

00:21:06.453 --> 00:21:07.335
Cause he, he had a,

00:21:07.474 --> 00:21:09.176
he had a practice that he sold, um,

00:21:09.717 --> 00:21:13.320
And then he was poo-pooing my model,

00:21:13.560 --> 00:21:16.364
doing home visits and one-on-one visits,

00:21:16.384 --> 00:21:18.326
the way that Tony kind of poo-poos it

00:21:18.385 --> 00:21:19.626
here, which is totally fine.

00:21:19.926 --> 00:21:20.867
Let's go backwards.

00:21:21.368 --> 00:21:22.710
So two questions.

00:21:22.930 --> 00:21:24.511
What does Onward offer?

00:21:24.852 --> 00:21:26.653
And then what would you offer in terms

00:21:26.693 --> 00:21:27.394
of absorbing?

00:21:27.674 --> 00:21:28.996
So what it looks like.

00:21:29.096 --> 00:21:29.997
I'd never heard of Onward.

00:21:30.017 --> 00:21:30.817
I don't know how I missed this.

00:21:30.837 --> 00:21:32.660
How have you not heard of Onward?

00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:33.201
I don't know.

00:21:34.682 --> 00:21:35.982
but this is good i don't have any

00:21:36.063 --> 00:21:38.384
expectations so is it similar to like the

00:21:38.464 --> 00:21:40.425
hilton model where you buy sort of looks

00:21:40.445 --> 00:21:42.468
like you buy the name but then you're

00:21:42.508 --> 00:21:44.789
also getting the infrastructure too is my

00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:46.750
guess but on the website doesn't sort of

00:21:46.790 --> 00:21:48.451
explain which is probably good you're not

00:21:48.471 --> 00:21:50.374
going to show off everything but like what

00:21:50.413 --> 00:21:52.394
would you expect anyway if you were like

00:21:52.556 --> 00:21:53.896
i want to open an onward in new

00:21:53.916 --> 00:21:56.317
york city what would you expect from that

00:21:56.397 --> 00:21:58.980
stuff besides just the logo and the spot

00:21:59.000 --> 00:21:59.580
on the website

00:22:00.444 --> 00:22:02.806
i know for sure that jeff helps and

00:22:02.846 --> 00:22:04.007
jeff if i have any of this wrong

00:22:04.047 --> 00:22:06.167
please correct me online or whatever but

00:22:06.448 --> 00:22:08.169
um when i've spoken to him before he

00:22:08.209 --> 00:22:10.069
was saying that you know hey we're looking

00:22:10.131 --> 00:22:11.790
here at this state or this city or

00:22:11.971 --> 00:22:15.472
this metro up he knows square footage

00:22:15.513 --> 00:22:18.755
pricing on every major metro he could

00:22:18.795 --> 00:22:20.455
literally tell you like off the cuff off

00:22:21.196 --> 00:22:22.698
the back of his hand so he he'll

00:22:22.758 --> 00:22:23.238
help you

00:22:24.053 --> 00:22:25.453
So, Jimmy, I was joking,

00:22:25.473 --> 00:22:26.614
but I know you're not going to open

00:22:26.673 --> 00:22:26.733
one,

00:22:26.753 --> 00:22:29.516
but if you were opening an Onward in

00:22:29.596 --> 00:22:31.676
upstate New York, you could call Jeff.

00:22:32.297 --> 00:22:34.877
He would help you with finding locations,

00:22:35.117 --> 00:22:35.979
with the build-out,

00:22:36.358 --> 00:22:37.819
what are the products that they use.

00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:38.240
Obviously,

00:22:38.259 --> 00:22:40.240
you have to have certain branding colors

00:22:40.340 --> 00:22:41.561
and that whole scheme.

00:22:42.102 --> 00:22:43.542
EMR, what do I order?

00:22:44.242 --> 00:22:45.462
Yeah, it's all the back end,

00:22:45.503 --> 00:22:46.963
all the EMR stuff.

00:22:46.983 --> 00:22:48.525
They probably have their own custom unless

00:22:48.545 --> 00:22:49.065
they use Jane.

00:22:49.105 --> 00:22:50.286
I don't know what they use, but...

00:22:52.508 --> 00:22:54.128
you would have someone like Jeff and his

00:22:54.169 --> 00:22:57.231
team at your side, shoulder to shoulder,

00:22:58.133 --> 00:22:58.732
or digitally,

00:22:58.772 --> 00:23:01.095
but there to support you on how to

00:23:01.134 --> 00:23:03.116
not get screwed over on signing a lease,

00:23:03.176 --> 00:23:05.098
how to negotiate leases,

00:23:05.138 --> 00:23:07.240
how to find a great spot and location,

00:23:07.861 --> 00:23:08.421
how to...

00:23:10.185 --> 00:23:13.210
They're actually not huge on marketing

00:23:13.891 --> 00:23:15.532
because they're focused on skills, right?

00:23:15.553 --> 00:23:16.634
So the skills and the results,

00:23:16.653 --> 00:23:17.655
and that's what gets a lot of word

00:23:17.675 --> 00:23:17.976
of mouth.

00:23:18.797 --> 00:23:20.638
But there's a ton on the back end,

00:23:20.699 --> 00:23:22.582
plus the branding and the signage and all

00:23:22.602 --> 00:23:23.123
that type of stuff.

00:23:23.143 --> 00:23:25.285
So there's a lot of things that you

00:23:25.305 --> 00:23:26.166
would benefit from

00:23:26.807 --> 00:23:28.028
compared to if you just started from

00:23:28.088 --> 00:23:30.009
scratch and you just wanted to do every

00:23:30.050 --> 00:23:31.291
little thing on your own and you wanted

00:23:31.311 --> 00:23:33.153
to just make you know McKay physical

00:23:33.173 --> 00:23:34.894
therapy like you're gonna have just way

00:23:34.914 --> 00:23:37.377
more like yeah you'll yes you'll own a

00:23:37.397 --> 00:23:38.818
hundred percent of it but then you also

00:23:38.838 --> 00:23:40.641
have a hundred percent of the challenges

00:23:40.681 --> 00:23:42.123
the headaches kind of like learning

00:23:42.143 --> 00:23:43.804
everything from scratch and not starting

00:23:43.884 --> 00:23:45.445
on like first or second base it's kind

00:23:45.465 --> 00:23:46.287
of like what they offer

00:23:47.664 --> 00:23:50.286
so this is interesting and and i want

00:23:50.306 --> 00:23:52.747
to be very selective because i don't know

00:23:52.787 --> 00:23:54.867
that i can trust the information that

00:23:54.907 --> 00:23:58.209
gemini is giving me back and i don't

00:23:58.249 --> 00:24:01.431
want it it's so just a high picture

00:24:01.510 --> 00:24:05.332
it says how the model works um it's

00:24:05.372 --> 00:24:08.933
targeting solo pts or two pt teams

00:24:11.108 --> 00:24:13.631
It's saying they're usually subleasing

00:24:13.671 --> 00:24:15.492
space out of a CrossFit box or fitness

00:24:15.532 --> 00:24:16.034
studio.

00:24:16.094 --> 00:24:18.596
The stack, they provide unified local SEO,

00:24:18.816 --> 00:24:20.958
website architecture, branding, marketing,

00:24:21.618 --> 00:24:23.740
community of performance forward

00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:24.701
clinicians.

00:24:25.241 --> 00:24:27.002
Cost structure, historically,

00:24:27.284 --> 00:24:30.626
it's been a licensing or consulting setup.

00:24:32.084 --> 00:24:33.183
That's what they were calling it.

00:24:33.284 --> 00:24:34.964
I'm not gonna say the percentage this

00:24:34.984 --> 00:24:35.265
says,

00:24:35.305 --> 00:24:36.744
but it says they take a percentage of

00:24:36.805 --> 00:24:39.724
revenue as a royalty cut back to the

00:24:39.805 --> 00:24:42.925
parent company alongside with initial

00:24:43.006 --> 00:24:45.906
buy-in or setup costs.

00:24:45.926 --> 00:24:48.807
There was some legal questions in the

00:24:48.866 --> 00:24:52.647
state of Washington where they were trying

00:24:52.688 --> 00:24:55.028
to say that they were noncompliant,

00:24:55.067 --> 00:24:56.709
that it should have been a franchise,

00:24:56.828 --> 00:24:58.949
not a licensing agreement.

00:25:00.489 --> 00:25:02.511
Pros and cons, instant authority,

00:25:02.571 --> 00:25:04.795
turnkey tech solution with SEO,

00:25:04.835 --> 00:25:06.457
community and mentorship.

00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:10.461
That's the main thing,

00:25:10.521 --> 00:25:13.105
but it looks like they were using a

00:25:13.686 --> 00:25:15.930
licensing or consulting agreement,

00:25:16.089 --> 00:25:18.313
not technically a franchise.

00:25:21.624 --> 00:25:23.325
So can we just double down or just

00:25:23.365 --> 00:25:23.865
review that?

00:25:24.404 --> 00:25:27.546
I believe this model, that model,

00:25:27.826 --> 00:25:28.925
it doesn't matter if it's Onward or

00:25:28.965 --> 00:25:29.445
someone else,

00:25:29.486 --> 00:25:31.467
like doing one-on-one visits,

00:25:31.666 --> 00:25:34.667
brick and mortar, almost any zip code,

00:25:35.468 --> 00:25:35.907
I believe,

00:25:35.948 --> 00:25:37.729
can charge at the least a hundred dollars

00:25:37.749 --> 00:25:38.588
a visit out of pocket,

00:25:38.628 --> 00:25:40.529
completely out of pocket or one fifty or

00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:41.369
one seventy five.

00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:41.990
Tony,

00:25:42.049 --> 00:25:43.691
you're saying that cannot scale across the

00:25:43.711 --> 00:25:44.330
entire country.

00:25:44.351 --> 00:25:44.951
Is that what you're saying?

00:25:46.423 --> 00:25:48.163
I think it depends on how it's done.

00:25:48.785 --> 00:25:49.765
I think, you know,

00:25:50.046 --> 00:25:51.125
and this has been brought up in the

00:25:51.165 --> 00:25:52.346
groups a hundred times.

00:25:52.386 --> 00:25:53.428
Like, yes,

00:25:53.508 --> 00:25:55.469
I think you could do as a professional

00:25:55.509 --> 00:25:56.230
consultant.

00:25:56.789 --> 00:25:57.971
I reached out to an attorney.

00:25:58.010 --> 00:25:59.392
It's a three hundred dollar fee.

00:25:59.912 --> 00:26:00.192
You know,

00:26:00.252 --> 00:26:01.534
am I going to is it three hundred

00:26:01.574 --> 00:26:03.095
dollars three times a week for twelve

00:26:03.134 --> 00:26:05.455
weeks for a nuisance problem that isn't

00:26:05.516 --> 00:26:06.616
really a big deal?

00:26:07.116 --> 00:26:08.458
No, that's not scalable.

00:26:08.518 --> 00:26:11.099
That's that's not a McDonald's kind of,

00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:11.580
you know.

00:26:12.340 --> 00:26:15.542
hits every country across the world um are

00:26:15.563 --> 00:26:18.285
there enough people in in the society that

00:26:18.325 --> 00:26:19.965
are willing to pay a hundred and fifty

00:26:20.006 --> 00:26:21.666
three hundred even five hundred dollars

00:26:21.707 --> 00:26:23.347
for like a one-time professional

00:26:23.388 --> 00:26:26.770
consultation yeah i i think individuals

00:26:26.810 --> 00:26:30.012
can do that it's not a population solution

00:26:30.613 --> 00:26:33.194
so in the conversation if we're saying

00:26:33.494 --> 00:26:36.257
individuals can we build a business and be

00:26:36.317 --> 00:26:38.398
successful in two thousand twenty six yes

00:26:39.324 --> 00:26:41.065
Are we going to save the planet with

00:26:41.105 --> 00:26:42.665
physical therapy interventions?

00:26:42.685 --> 00:26:42.726
No.

00:26:42.746 --> 00:26:46.887
So we're not going to save the population

00:26:47.307 --> 00:26:49.148
with the current model though, Tony.

00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:51.030
Right, right, right.

00:26:51.070 --> 00:26:51.790
Who cares?

00:26:52.131 --> 00:26:52.770
Who cares?

00:26:52.951 --> 00:26:53.211
Right.

00:26:53.251 --> 00:26:57.874
So like the current model in network where

00:26:57.913 --> 00:26:59.315
people are paying for premiums and they

00:26:59.335 --> 00:27:01.675
got a ten, twenty, fifty dollar copay.

00:27:02.396 --> 00:27:04.178
We already know the stats that ninety

00:27:04.238 --> 00:27:05.919
percent of people drop off of their plan

00:27:05.959 --> 00:27:06.278
to care.

00:27:07.134 --> 00:27:09.596
Which means they, of course they need it,

00:27:10.215 --> 00:27:11.477
but they just don't want it or they

00:27:11.497 --> 00:27:13.038
don't see the value or the therapists are

00:27:13.077 --> 00:27:15.500
too busy or whatever.

00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:16.921
Like there's so many factors,

00:27:17.340 --> 00:27:19.942
but people don't want it at scale anymore.

00:27:21.047 --> 00:27:22.167
So, and also,

00:27:22.387 --> 00:27:23.709
like I said a million times,

00:27:23.729 --> 00:27:24.348
I know you,

00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:26.651
I know you said today already, again,

00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:28.112
that Hinge Health and Sword Health will

00:27:28.152 --> 00:27:28.992
take over some of that.

00:27:29.353 --> 00:27:29.874
People don't want,

00:27:29.894 --> 00:27:30.933
they're not going to want that either.

00:27:31.134 --> 00:27:32.414
Like I'm saying that they don't want that

00:27:32.474 --> 00:27:32.675
either.

00:27:32.715 --> 00:27:34.116
Like there's some people that benefit from

00:27:34.176 --> 00:27:34.257
it.

00:27:34.336 --> 00:27:34.676
Okay.

00:27:35.196 --> 00:27:35.837
And they like it.

00:27:36.117 --> 00:27:37.358
But at scale,

00:27:37.439 --> 00:27:39.540
the same type of person that is like,

00:27:39.701 --> 00:27:39.921
all right,

00:27:39.961 --> 00:27:41.821
I drive one time to physical therapy and

00:27:41.842 --> 00:27:43.584
it was a twenty or fifty dollar copay.

00:27:44.044 --> 00:27:45.704
And then they drop off after two to

00:27:46.286 --> 00:27:47.465
one or two visits or three visits or

00:27:47.486 --> 00:27:47.787
whatever.

00:27:48.267 --> 00:27:48.948
That person.

00:27:49.728 --> 00:27:51.249
it's really hard to save that person it's

00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:52.548
really hard to help that person it's

00:27:52.568 --> 00:27:53.769
really hard to help that person out of

00:27:53.788 --> 00:27:55.730
chronic back pain or chronic pain or

00:27:56.369 --> 00:27:58.651
headaches or bad posture or whatever like

00:27:58.691 --> 00:28:00.590
they're making their own decisions on

00:28:00.611 --> 00:28:01.852
their own health and wellness they're not

00:28:01.892 --> 00:28:03.271
investing the time and effort maybe they

00:28:03.291 --> 00:28:05.492
were never guided or taught about the

00:28:05.553 --> 00:28:08.012
value of that maybe they have you know

00:28:08.493 --> 00:28:10.054
past trauma and demons that don't allow

00:28:10.094 --> 00:28:11.974
them to focus on their health and wellness

00:28:12.055 --> 00:28:14.174
and there are so many people like that

00:28:14.234 --> 00:28:16.215
unfortunately in the country and

00:28:17.276 --> 00:28:18.096
maybe across the world.

00:28:18.136 --> 00:28:20.078
So like our type of service offering,

00:28:21.099 --> 00:28:23.761
maybe can't scale as well or as easily

00:28:23.821 --> 00:28:25.523
as McDonald's because we everyone needs to

00:28:25.604 --> 00:28:25.804
eat.

00:28:26.664 --> 00:28:29.127
But not everyone wants or everyone needs

00:28:29.147 --> 00:28:29.528
what we do,

00:28:29.548 --> 00:28:31.210
but not everyone wants what we do to

00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:34.313
the level that people want an easy Big

00:28:34.353 --> 00:28:36.994
Mac or fries that's so readily available

00:28:37.095 --> 00:28:38.317
in any country that you go to.

00:28:38.356 --> 00:28:39.617
Yeah.

00:28:40.612 --> 00:28:42.313
Going down this road a little deeper,

00:28:42.353 --> 00:28:43.713
though, let me ask you guys this.

00:28:43.773 --> 00:28:47.497
We know people, shoot, his name,

00:28:47.557 --> 00:28:48.877
Total Motion Release, Tom.

00:28:48.897 --> 00:28:51.058
Tom DeLonzo Baker.

00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:51.839
Yeah,

00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:54.161
so he's got this huge network of people

00:28:54.201 --> 00:28:56.163
that he's educated, he's trained.

00:28:56.222 --> 00:28:57.804
You're part of that.

00:28:57.824 --> 00:28:58.944
You understand what he does.

00:29:01.298 --> 00:29:04.439
I've always thought like we've seen the

00:29:04.479 --> 00:29:05.380
franchise model,

00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:07.140
we've seen the licensing model.

00:29:07.800 --> 00:29:09.480
Is there an opportunity within the

00:29:09.520 --> 00:29:12.201
profession to go one level deeper and be

00:29:12.241 --> 00:29:15.083
curious what Jimmy thinks where somebody

00:29:15.123 --> 00:29:17.703
like Tom created Total Motion Release,

00:29:18.144 --> 00:29:19.025
somebody like me,

00:29:19.164 --> 00:29:21.766
I would create a Total Me specific

00:29:22.645 --> 00:29:26.368
uh branded program that has you know name

00:29:26.409 --> 00:29:28.369
recognition that has the social media

00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:30.652
reach that has all of these things and

00:29:30.672 --> 00:29:33.534
then an individual practice owner or a

00:29:33.574 --> 00:29:34.814
small group or

00:29:35.845 --> 00:29:37.846
They would basically buy the licensing for

00:29:37.986 --> 00:29:40.767
my branded total knee program,

00:29:40.807 --> 00:29:42.988
Tom's branded total motion release.

00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:46.670
Our responsibilities would be to continue

00:29:46.710 --> 00:29:48.250
to build brand recognition,

00:29:48.310 --> 00:29:49.951
continue to build reach.

00:29:50.011 --> 00:29:51.532
And so that a clinic,

00:29:51.553 --> 00:29:53.373
just like a clinic would buy a physical

00:29:53.413 --> 00:29:54.253
piece of equipment,

00:29:54.874 --> 00:29:56.815
they would buy a branded program like

00:29:56.855 --> 00:29:57.194
this,

00:29:57.394 --> 00:29:59.316
bring it into the clinic as a revenue

00:29:59.355 --> 00:29:59.936
driver.

00:30:01.356 --> 00:30:02.238
Do you guys think

00:30:02.938 --> 00:30:04.479
there's opportunity for that.

00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:06.160
And the reason why I ask is because

00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.142
does that open the door for individual

00:30:08.182 --> 00:30:09.982
therapists to be like,

00:30:10.202 --> 00:30:11.844
I'm never going to grow a ten million

00:30:11.884 --> 00:30:13.265
dollar PT practice,

00:30:13.664 --> 00:30:15.586
but maybe I could just grow my personal

00:30:15.626 --> 00:30:16.307
brand,

00:30:16.747 --> 00:30:20.069
turn it into a productized service and

00:30:20.109 --> 00:30:23.551
then sell that to other practices or

00:30:23.652 --> 00:30:25.593
venture backed companies that are looking

00:30:25.633 --> 00:30:27.875
to scale faster and bigger.

00:30:29.756 --> 00:30:31.376
What do you guys think about that as

00:30:31.396 --> 00:30:32.057
an opportunity?

00:30:32.978 --> 00:30:33.598
What do you think, Jimmy?

00:30:34.038 --> 00:30:35.279
I mean, it's possible.

00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:37.882
I think the opportunity, the ROI is huge.

00:30:38.001 --> 00:30:39.303
I think the number of times that will

00:30:39.323 --> 00:30:40.644
happen is smaller, right?

00:30:41.644 --> 00:30:42.645
The home runs are big.

00:30:42.986 --> 00:30:44.166
It'll just be fewer home runs.

00:30:44.547 --> 00:30:45.607
I actually didn't think you were going

00:30:45.627 --> 00:30:45.928
that way.

00:30:46.028 --> 00:30:48.830
I thought, Dave, what do you think?

00:30:48.851 --> 00:30:50.913
And let me flesh out the second idea

00:30:50.932 --> 00:30:51.333
that I had.

00:30:52.710 --> 00:30:54.070
I don't I don't have any problem with

00:30:54.090 --> 00:30:54.131
it.

00:30:54.211 --> 00:30:55.152
I think that's totally fine.

00:30:55.231 --> 00:30:56.073
Actually,

00:30:56.133 --> 00:30:57.374
I screenshotted something yesterday.

00:30:57.394 --> 00:30:58.134
Let me see if I can pull it

00:30:58.154 --> 00:30:58.234
up.

00:30:58.255 --> 00:30:59.154
I was going to share with you guys

00:30:59.174 --> 00:31:00.977
there was I got hit with an Instagram

00:31:01.096 --> 00:31:01.356
ad.

00:31:01.938 --> 00:31:03.659
And it was a female physical therapist.

00:31:03.699 --> 00:31:04.358
I forget her name.

00:31:04.378 --> 00:31:06.901
But it was like fair x shoulder like

00:31:06.921 --> 00:31:07.402
her whole

00:31:07.862 --> 00:31:10.042
Instagram is a digital product.

00:31:10.222 --> 00:31:11.542
I guess I don't have the screenshot.

00:31:11.742 --> 00:31:12.863
Give me an example of what you're,

00:31:12.923 --> 00:31:13.782
what you're thinking about.

00:31:13.803 --> 00:31:14.503
Like, what would it like?

00:31:14.523 --> 00:31:16.144
Would it be what Dave's describing or

00:31:16.163 --> 00:31:16.483
remember?

00:31:16.523 --> 00:31:16.624
Well,

00:31:16.644 --> 00:31:19.545
what's the tennis elbow woman who like I'm

00:31:19.585 --> 00:31:19.785
tennis,

00:31:20.025 --> 00:31:21.585
but she's not selling it to other people.

00:31:21.625 --> 00:31:24.685
She's like, you see me telehealth.

00:31:25.066 --> 00:31:26.026
I'm tennis elbow.

00:31:26.226 --> 00:31:27.086
I'm super good at it.

00:31:27.287 --> 00:31:28.146
I can treat it from here.

00:31:29.315 --> 00:31:30.035
That's all I do.

00:31:30.316 --> 00:31:31.496
And then that's what she is.

00:31:31.536 --> 00:31:32.896
She just owns tennis elbow.

00:31:32.977 --> 00:31:33.836
Is that what you're thinking?

00:31:33.876 --> 00:31:34.637
Or are you thinking like,

00:31:35.218 --> 00:31:36.759
I'm a therapist somewhere else and I'm

00:31:36.798 --> 00:31:39.059
just gonna buy into this shoulder program

00:31:39.099 --> 00:31:41.101
and then I sell it to my patient?

00:31:41.121 --> 00:31:45.502
So I'll give you a surgical example that

00:31:45.542 --> 00:31:46.202
exists right now.

00:31:46.222 --> 00:31:47.443
So the Giffini.

00:31:48.544 --> 00:31:51.807
the jiffy knee it's a branded surgical

00:31:51.847 --> 00:31:55.251
procedure they protect the intellectual

00:31:55.291 --> 00:31:58.256
property they protect the name it's not

00:31:58.276 --> 00:32:00.238
that different from other minimally

00:32:00.258 --> 00:32:03.461
invasive sub vastus approaches to total

00:32:03.481 --> 00:32:04.242
knee replacement

00:32:04.943 --> 00:32:08.146
But they have built this thing where now

00:32:08.186 --> 00:32:09.568
they bring surgeons in,

00:32:09.628 --> 00:32:12.412
they train them on the Jeffini process and

00:32:12.451 --> 00:32:14.053
do all of this stuff.

00:32:14.073 --> 00:32:16.375
We've got a surgeon south of us in

00:32:16.395 --> 00:32:17.396
the Cincinnati area,

00:32:17.537 --> 00:32:18.778
one north of us in Dayton.

00:32:19.178 --> 00:32:21.800
They're the only ones in this area who

00:32:21.881 --> 00:32:23.482
are allowed to do it,

00:32:23.502 --> 00:32:24.523
who are doing it.

00:32:25.003 --> 00:32:25.825
And patients,

00:32:25.845 --> 00:32:28.407
consumers are actively seeking this out.

00:32:28.948 --> 00:32:31.689
because they have name recognition.

00:32:32.048 --> 00:32:33.309
Everything is in a box.

00:32:33.829 --> 00:32:34.009
Now,

00:32:34.049 --> 00:32:36.471
the surgeon isn't creatively thinking of,

00:32:36.530 --> 00:32:37.751
how do I do this procedure?

00:32:37.791 --> 00:32:38.672
Everything has been done.

00:32:38.711 --> 00:32:39.412
It's been taught.

00:32:40.032 --> 00:32:42.594
So you're just packaging this protocol

00:32:42.634 --> 00:32:46.694
effectively with the name and marketing

00:32:46.734 --> 00:32:49.537
material around it to sell more knee

00:32:49.576 --> 00:32:50.196
replacements.

00:32:50.237 --> 00:32:51.718
But they're Jiffy knee replacements.

00:32:51.758 --> 00:32:53.337
They're just not knee replacements.

00:32:55.558 --> 00:32:56.299
I'm on their website.

00:32:56.740 --> 00:33:00.343
So if I'm a person who needs something

00:33:00.403 --> 00:33:01.544
wonky with my name, right?

00:33:02.244 --> 00:33:04.086
I trip over them by Googling it or

00:33:04.145 --> 00:33:05.446
someone tells me about it.

00:33:05.527 --> 00:33:06.048
And then, of course,

00:33:06.087 --> 00:33:07.388
I look them up by state.

00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:10.270
But Jiffy Knee doesn't own a portion of

00:33:10.310 --> 00:33:11.112
their practice.

00:33:11.192 --> 00:33:12.553
It's just they get a cut of whatever

00:33:12.633 --> 00:33:15.556
comes through the door through that Jiffy

00:33:15.576 --> 00:33:16.155
Knee door.

00:33:16.175 --> 00:33:18.198
Yeah, I'm not sure.

00:33:18.218 --> 00:33:18.337
I mean,

00:33:18.357 --> 00:33:19.479
you're bought in a little bit because you

00:33:19.499 --> 00:33:20.720
got to get certified and yada, yada.

00:33:20.740 --> 00:33:21.941
But that's going to pay for itself in

00:33:22.361 --> 00:33:23.241
a couple of knees, right?

00:33:23.755 --> 00:33:23.914
Yeah,

00:33:23.954 --> 00:33:25.935
basically what they did was they built a

00:33:25.976 --> 00:33:30.336
marketing machine that the orthopedic

00:33:30.376 --> 00:33:31.397
surgeon buys.

00:33:31.778 --> 00:33:33.357
They buy the marketing machine.

00:33:33.397 --> 00:33:36.118
They put it into their surgical center.

00:33:36.818 --> 00:33:39.259
And that marketing machine is just sucking

00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.080
people out of the general population to

00:33:41.101 --> 00:33:41.980
get their knee replaced.

00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:43.382
Yeah.

00:33:43.402 --> 00:33:43.922
I don't know.

00:33:43.961 --> 00:33:46.182
Like, does this translate to PT?

00:33:46.202 --> 00:33:47.242
Because I can't.

00:33:48.338 --> 00:33:51.403
go get a prime day deal on scalpels

00:33:51.865 --> 00:33:53.106
and do it myself.

00:33:53.607 --> 00:33:55.290
But I feel like what we sell is

00:33:55.371 --> 00:33:55.892
different.

00:33:57.034 --> 00:33:59.699
And although there are people out there

00:33:59.739 --> 00:34:00.901
doing this right now,

00:34:02.044 --> 00:34:04.385
I think what Tom did was he was

00:34:04.425 --> 00:34:06.227
like, you don't work the painful side.

00:34:06.247 --> 00:34:07.928
You work the non-painful side.

00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:10.090
That's so out of the box.

00:34:10.150 --> 00:34:11.210
It doesn't make sense.

00:34:11.289 --> 00:34:12.231
Why would this work?

00:34:12.271 --> 00:34:13.291
But then you've got all of these

00:34:13.331 --> 00:34:15.293
testimonials and all of these clinicians

00:34:15.373 --> 00:34:15.913
on board.

00:34:16.634 --> 00:34:20.456
That is enough to make a consumer who's

00:34:20.556 --> 00:34:22.038
sitting there at home being like,

00:34:22.577 --> 00:34:23.237
I did therapy.

00:34:23.277 --> 00:34:23.699
I did this.

00:34:23.759 --> 00:34:24.858
I did nothing worked.

00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:26.360
I'm going to go buy that.

00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:28.561
And it adds the price premium to it

00:34:28.601 --> 00:34:29.663
because it's branded.

00:34:32.045 --> 00:34:34.570
Um, more authority behind it.

00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:37.335
So, so how does someone,

00:34:37.454 --> 00:34:39.539
so is total motion release and Jiffy knee,

00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:41.262
are they like the same model just for

00:34:41.302 --> 00:34:41.844
different things?

00:34:41.864 --> 00:34:42.385
Is that what you're saying?

00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:44.161
No, he, he,

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:45.742
I don't think he's gone down this route.

00:34:45.802 --> 00:34:46.762
He's just sticking.

00:34:47.164 --> 00:34:48.885
He sells, he sells like CEUs.

00:34:48.925 --> 00:34:49.905
It's the virtual CEO basically.

00:34:49.925 --> 00:34:50.045
Got it.

00:34:50.065 --> 00:34:50.146
Okay.

00:34:50.186 --> 00:34:50.586
Got it.

00:34:50.606 --> 00:34:51.807
Got it.

00:34:51.847 --> 00:34:53.268
He's still just kind of teaching,

00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:55.811
selling the education, but in,

00:34:55.972 --> 00:34:57.253
in the world that I'm thinking,

00:34:57.413 --> 00:34:59.295
he would sell the name total motion

00:34:59.335 --> 00:34:59.755
release.

00:34:59.775 --> 00:35:02.217
He would allow therapists to market the

00:35:02.257 --> 00:35:05.059
name total motion release for potentially

00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:06.942
for a fee, for a licensing agreement,

00:35:07.001 --> 00:35:07.601
whatever.

00:35:07.902 --> 00:35:08.123
Um,

00:35:08.182 --> 00:35:11.505
um he's got his his database of providers

00:35:11.585 --> 00:35:15.126
and i'm sure he sends people to to

00:35:15.186 --> 00:35:22.510
there who have taken his course thousand

00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:24.030
bucks or three payoffs

00:35:26.786 --> 00:35:27.188
By the way,

00:35:27.268 --> 00:35:28.789
Tony motion release works really well.

00:35:28.809 --> 00:35:29.751
If you're a physical therapist,

00:35:30.150 --> 00:35:30.831
you should check it out.

00:35:30.952 --> 00:35:31.994
And I get nothing from it.

00:35:32.054 --> 00:35:33.335
So I'm outside of this.

00:35:33.355 --> 00:35:35.237
I'm outside of this model right now, Tony,

00:35:35.657 --> 00:35:36.780
I'm not gonna get anything from it.

00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:37.860
But Tom's a great guy.

00:35:37.940 --> 00:35:39.063
And this absolutely works.

00:35:40.255 --> 00:35:42.856
Yeah, he's got incredible testimonials.

00:35:42.896 --> 00:35:44.557
People that I know, like, trust.

00:35:44.657 --> 00:35:47.199
I've sent patients to therapists who do it

00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:48.079
because I don't do it.

00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:50.400
I've paid for one of my therapists to

00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:51.239
go through it.

00:35:51.699 --> 00:35:53.001
That therapist isn't with us.

00:35:53.041 --> 00:35:54.161
He relocated.

00:35:55.842 --> 00:35:56.302
And also,

00:35:56.422 --> 00:35:58.023
I find it interesting that Tom hasn't

00:35:58.063 --> 00:35:58.802
raised that price.

00:35:58.842 --> 00:36:01.083
That price was a thousand dollars like

00:36:01.123 --> 00:36:02.063
fifteen years ago.

00:36:02.864 --> 00:36:03.425
Really?

00:36:03.485 --> 00:36:06.766
Interesting.

00:36:06.786 --> 00:36:07.666
Trying to reach more people.

00:36:08.666 --> 00:36:08.867
Maybe.

00:36:10.313 --> 00:36:13.394
So one great therapist could create one

00:36:13.414 --> 00:36:16.655
great system that could then scale across

00:36:16.695 --> 00:36:17.637
the country, basically.

00:36:18.637 --> 00:36:19.878
Well, like McKenzie, right?

00:36:19.898 --> 00:36:20.978
So that started in New Zealand or

00:36:20.998 --> 00:36:21.297
whatever.

00:36:21.318 --> 00:36:22.239
Yeah, that's a great example.

00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:24.460
Started in New Zealand?

00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:25.340
Why don't we have more of those?

00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:26.521
That's an expensive course.

00:36:27.204 --> 00:36:29.326
why don't we have hundreds of those why

00:36:29.505 --> 00:36:31.146
like every therapist thinks they're

00:36:31.166 --> 00:36:33.007
amazing every therapist thinks they have

00:36:33.106 --> 00:36:36.827
unique protocols and unique approaches and

00:36:36.847 --> 00:36:38.807
they they don't want people stealing their

00:36:38.867 --> 00:36:42.289
methods i feel like it's feudal japan and

00:36:42.349 --> 00:36:45.349
samurais are like not teaching other

00:36:45.389 --> 00:36:47.610
people how they kill each other because

00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:49.090
it's so unique to them

00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:51.911
Um, but seriously,

00:36:51.992 --> 00:36:54.512
like why haven't we seen more individual

00:36:54.612 --> 00:36:57.333
therapists turning these into full fledged

00:36:57.373 --> 00:36:57.954
businesses?

00:36:58.893 --> 00:36:59.054
Uh,

00:36:59.074 --> 00:37:00.755
is it because we can switch to a

00:37:00.815 --> 00:37:01.255
topic?

00:37:01.375 --> 00:37:05.096
Is it because of identity?

00:37:05.177 --> 00:37:07.896
Like I'm selling me and not the result.

00:37:08.717 --> 00:37:10.217
Like I couldn't tell you who owns the

00:37:10.257 --> 00:37:13.179
car dealership that I drive by five times

00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:14.619
a week that I bought my last car

00:37:14.659 --> 00:37:17.561
from and that versus names on the door.

00:37:18.396 --> 00:37:19.617
But they don't market that.

00:37:19.677 --> 00:37:20.936
They market brand.

00:37:21.838 --> 00:37:23.438
More specifically, they market the car.

00:37:23.518 --> 00:37:24.358
Even more specifically,

00:37:24.378 --> 00:37:25.679
they market what you're going to do with

00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:26.159
the car.

00:37:26.721 --> 00:37:27.740
So is that the reason?

00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:29.422
It's like, well, I'm the magic.

00:37:29.641 --> 00:37:30.822
I have my name on the door.

00:37:31.242 --> 00:37:32.623
I'm Dr. Blah, blah, blah.

00:37:33.503 --> 00:37:34.965
Is that the reason we can't let it

00:37:35.005 --> 00:37:35.284
go?

00:37:35.364 --> 00:37:38.766
Because then we can pivot into this idea.

00:37:38.786 --> 00:37:39.847
I think we've got enough time to at

00:37:39.887 --> 00:37:40.807
least dig into it,

00:37:41.228 --> 00:37:43.710
which is when Tony wants to get

00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:45.451
interaction, he posts something like,

00:37:46.684 --> 00:37:48.085
give me the best trainer and the worst

00:37:48.125 --> 00:37:51.427
PT, which is better, right?

00:37:51.586 --> 00:37:53.108
And then people lose their minds because

00:37:53.128 --> 00:37:55.048
they... People, comment, comment, comment,

00:37:55.088 --> 00:37:55.449
comment.

00:37:55.909 --> 00:37:57.311
I even love that one comment.

00:37:57.391 --> 00:37:58.351
I'll find, I'll bring it up.

00:37:58.371 --> 00:37:58.891
The woman's like,

00:37:59.032 --> 00:38:01.753
I've rewritten my post seven times and I

00:38:01.793 --> 00:38:04.014
can't post it because it sounds rude.

00:38:04.135 --> 00:38:05.275
And I'm like, yeah,

00:38:05.356 --> 00:38:07.717
like she can't let it go.

00:38:07.838 --> 00:38:10.059
She can't recognize that she can't let the

00:38:10.179 --> 00:38:10.760
identity go.

00:38:11.539 --> 00:38:13.581
But is that it?

00:38:13.641 --> 00:38:15.422
Is that why this hasn't been created is

00:38:15.463 --> 00:38:16.664
because I'm the man.

00:38:16.684 --> 00:38:17.644
You can't scale me.

00:38:17.724 --> 00:38:18.925
You can't scale June McKay.

00:38:19.146 --> 00:38:19.806
I'm the magic.

00:38:20.005 --> 00:38:21.126
I'm the magic, baby.

00:38:21.568 --> 00:38:22.969
Well, I also part of that.

00:38:22.989 --> 00:38:23.688
All right.

00:38:23.708 --> 00:38:24.789
So, Tony, you said there's how many?

00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:26.311
Three hundred or three hundred thirty

00:38:26.351 --> 00:38:28.072
something thousand PTs in the country.

00:38:28.273 --> 00:38:28.713
What's the number?

00:38:28.733 --> 00:38:29.554
Something like that.

00:38:29.574 --> 00:38:29.954
Yeah.

00:38:30.034 --> 00:38:30.855
Around three hundred K.

00:38:31.454 --> 00:38:33.956
And then how many approximately how many

00:38:34.036 --> 00:38:35.217
practice owners do you think there are?

00:38:36.248 --> 00:38:38.431
The numbers I always see are about forty

00:38:38.471 --> 00:38:39.992
thousand private practices.

00:38:41.134 --> 00:38:42.655
No, but I mean, but owners, though.

00:38:42.695 --> 00:38:42.876
Right.

00:38:42.896 --> 00:38:45.077
So some owners own multiple locations.

00:38:46.478 --> 00:38:46.559
Yeah.

00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:46.719
Yeah.

00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:47.039
Each owner.

00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.601
Twenty seven thousand.

00:38:50.842 --> 00:38:51.503
Practice owners.

00:38:52.405 --> 00:38:53.125
I think so.

00:38:53.365 --> 00:38:54.527
So that would be that would be ten

00:38:54.567 --> 00:38:58.351
percent of the total physical therapist

00:38:58.951 --> 00:39:00.492
workforce that become private practice

00:39:00.552 --> 00:39:00.813
owners.

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.583
So you're asking how come more therapists

00:39:03.603 --> 00:39:06.324
don't do like productize a service or,

00:39:06.525 --> 00:39:06.764
you know,

00:39:07.246 --> 00:39:09.266
make their system and productize their

00:39:09.327 --> 00:39:09.768
system.

00:39:11.009 --> 00:39:12.230
I think we see some of it and

00:39:12.269 --> 00:39:13.510
it's probably going to be similar to that

00:39:13.550 --> 00:39:13.751
number,

00:39:13.771 --> 00:39:15.853
which would be ten percent of the amount

00:39:15.873 --> 00:39:17.313
of ten percent of the therapists

00:39:18.766 --> 00:39:20.009
of the three hundred thousand therapists

00:39:20.068 --> 00:39:21.250
become practice owners.

00:39:21.791 --> 00:39:23.893
So of the staff, physical therapists,

00:39:23.954 --> 00:39:26.277
maybe five or ten percent of them might

00:39:26.376 --> 00:39:28.860
step up and make like like Emma and

00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.061
is like the elbow queen or whatever,

00:39:31.182 --> 00:39:33.224
or Tom Delonzo Baker make his this type

00:39:33.244 --> 00:39:33.766
of a system.

00:39:34.226 --> 00:39:35.768
So I can't I can't imagine it being

00:39:36.268 --> 00:39:37.550
I mean, five percent.

00:39:38.251 --> 00:39:39.731
five percent of three hundred thousand

00:39:39.751 --> 00:39:41.273
therapists is fifteen thousand therapists

00:39:41.293 --> 00:39:43.394
so i can't imagine i mean maybe there's

00:39:43.635 --> 00:39:45.076
that many but it's probably even less than

00:39:45.096 --> 00:39:46.998
that because maybe a lot of the therapists

00:39:47.018 --> 00:39:48.818
get into our world and they're like

00:39:48.838 --> 00:39:50.199
they're just looking for a job with the

00:39:50.739 --> 00:39:52.461
the base pay or the base salary and

00:39:52.481 --> 00:39:54.503
the health insurance benefits and to go

00:39:54.563 --> 00:39:56.083
and do the thing you're talking about tony

00:39:56.123 --> 00:39:58.365
takes you know a lot of entrepreneurial

00:39:58.405 --> 00:40:01.467
chops and effort and failure and you know

00:40:01.489 --> 00:40:03.469
that yeah a lot of risk a lot

00:40:03.510 --> 00:40:05.851
of risk and time and effort so um

00:40:06.976 --> 00:40:08.277
Not everyone signed up for that because

00:40:08.297 --> 00:40:11.079
they signed up for a stable healthcare job

00:40:11.300 --> 00:40:14.583
with a base salary and insurance and a

00:40:14.643 --> 00:40:15.963
safety net and all that.

00:40:16.829 --> 00:40:20.052
yeah it's been so long it's been years

00:40:20.092 --> 00:40:21.733
and i still try to fit a round

00:40:21.773 --> 00:40:24.257
peg into a square hole i still try

00:40:24.277 --> 00:40:27.280
to make and mold everyone into what i

00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:28.882
am and what i think is important and

00:40:28.922 --> 00:40:32.385
valuable um i don't know how to to

00:40:32.525 --> 00:40:34.347
get away from that but i think when

00:40:34.427 --> 00:40:35.909
i do get away from that i'll probably

00:40:35.949 --> 00:40:37.351
just disappear from the profession

00:40:38.630 --> 00:40:39.871
That's the only thing that gives me in

00:40:39.911 --> 00:40:42.311
the profession is the desire to change

00:40:42.351 --> 00:40:43.472
people's ideas.

00:40:44.592 --> 00:40:45.952
But I have no right to do that.

00:40:46.072 --> 00:40:47.572
So what were you going to say, Jimmy?

00:40:47.853 --> 00:40:48.693
I'm going to say one day we're going

00:40:48.713 --> 00:40:50.913
to wake up and like his Facebook groups

00:40:50.952 --> 00:40:51.773
are just going to be gone.

00:40:51.853 --> 00:40:53.554
His YouTube channel just be down and his

00:40:53.693 --> 00:40:54.434
email won't work.

00:40:54.454 --> 00:40:55.934
He'll just be he's going to be Kaiser

00:40:55.954 --> 00:40:56.353
Soze.

00:40:56.914 --> 00:40:58.034
We've seen it happen.

00:40:58.195 --> 00:40:58.875
Rob, right?

00:40:58.934 --> 00:40:59.135
Rob.

00:40:59.175 --> 00:40:59.434
Rob.

00:40:59.855 --> 00:41:00.034
Rob.

00:41:00.114 --> 00:41:01.295
He just disappeared.

00:41:01.795 --> 00:41:02.675
At some point,

00:41:02.695 --> 00:41:04.076
you just get so sick of it.

00:41:04.096 --> 00:41:04.936
You just walk away.

00:41:04.956 --> 00:41:06.235
Yeah, you just can't.

00:41:07.983 --> 00:41:09.724
tony don't do that to us we'll track

00:41:09.764 --> 00:41:12.106
you down in ohio seriously that's right

00:41:12.166 --> 00:41:15.288
all right so here's the post and i've

00:41:15.387 --> 00:41:18.030
really understand why we do this i've

00:41:18.170 --> 00:41:20.391
reread this real quick i've reread this

00:41:20.431 --> 00:41:22.231
post just because sometimes i do post

00:41:22.253 --> 00:41:24.134
something and i don't pay enough attention

00:41:24.653 --> 00:41:27.215
i've reread the post and i don't disagree

00:41:27.255 --> 00:41:29.016
with the post i mean i i think

00:41:29.117 --> 00:41:30.737
i conveyed what i'm trying to say

00:41:31.806 --> 00:41:33.688
But clearly it struck a little bit of

00:41:33.708 --> 00:41:35.688
a nerve and I think it's an insecurity

00:41:35.728 --> 00:41:36.068
thing.

00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:37.731
I mean,

00:41:37.771 --> 00:41:39.112
I was a personal trainer for a long

00:41:39.152 --> 00:41:40.952
time before I became a physical therapist.

00:41:41.032 --> 00:41:43.215
I don't think I was any better once

00:41:43.275 --> 00:41:44.615
I got the PT degree.

00:41:45.135 --> 00:41:47.778
Jimmy went down the road in this thread,

00:41:47.818 --> 00:41:49.440
which is what I agree with.

00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:51.981
What you learn in physical therapy school

00:41:52.021 --> 00:41:54.063
has virtually no impact on the rest of

00:41:54.103 --> 00:41:54.664
your career.

00:41:54.704 --> 00:41:57.065
You learn all the good stuff working with

00:41:57.106 --> 00:41:57.465
people.

00:41:58.106 --> 00:41:59.867
You learn from the people you surround

00:41:59.907 --> 00:42:00.668
yourself with.

00:42:01.329 --> 00:42:04.291
a great personal trainer can do everything

00:42:04.331 --> 00:42:06.114
a great physical therapist can do.

00:42:06.894 --> 00:42:08.755
I would argue there's just as many bad

00:42:08.795 --> 00:42:10.518
physical therapists as there are bad

00:42:10.557 --> 00:42:11.418
personal trainers.

00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:14.081
But everybody in this thread went

00:42:14.101 --> 00:42:16.864
immediately to a personal training as a

00:42:16.923 --> 00:42:18.085
weekend certification.

00:42:18.965 --> 00:42:21.728
neglecting all of the amazing personal

00:42:21.748 --> 00:42:24.130
trainers that have bachelor's degrees,

00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:27.693
master's degrees that continue to research

00:42:27.733 --> 00:42:29.773
and learn and study and do all of

00:42:29.793 --> 00:42:33.257
this stuff that far exceeds what a lot

00:42:33.297 --> 00:42:34.498
of physical therapists do.

00:42:36.668 --> 00:42:38.530
You could tear apart most of these

00:42:38.650 --> 00:42:40.552
arguments with a butter knife.

00:42:40.811 --> 00:42:41.512
I like Michael.

00:42:41.632 --> 00:42:42.773
I'm not taking a shot at Michael.

00:42:43.253 --> 00:42:43.693
But he's like,

00:42:43.713 --> 00:42:45.835
the difference is the education bar none.

00:42:46.135 --> 00:42:47.916
You can't compare the medical knowledge of

00:42:47.996 --> 00:42:49.257
a PT with a personal trainer.

00:42:50.518 --> 00:42:51.239
How do you know?

00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:53.300
How do you,

00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:55.742
what if a personal trainer reads every

00:42:55.762 --> 00:42:58.623
book that's available on his train ride to

00:42:58.643 --> 00:43:00.864
work every single day for thirty,

00:43:01.465 --> 00:43:03.184
you can't, no.

00:43:03.626 --> 00:43:06.286
What you're saying is I sat there for

00:43:06.347 --> 00:43:08.927
three years and did this thing and I

00:43:09.007 --> 00:43:10.568
know that there were a thousand people

00:43:10.588 --> 00:43:12.668
that had applied for thirty seats.

00:43:13.088 --> 00:43:15.269
Lots of people are out, I'm in,

00:43:15.429 --> 00:43:16.731
therefore I'm valuable.

00:43:16.931 --> 00:43:19.452
And I understand, there's the thing.

00:43:19.992 --> 00:43:21.092
I earned this.

00:43:21.431 --> 00:43:22.733
You can't take it away from me and

00:43:22.753 --> 00:43:24.634
just read books to get this knowledge.

00:43:25.173 --> 00:43:26.034
Yes, you can.

00:43:26.733 --> 00:43:27.253
You can.

00:43:27.373 --> 00:43:28.175
And then you say, well,

00:43:28.215 --> 00:43:30.655
the only way you learn the real stuff

00:43:30.735 --> 00:43:31.876
is by working with patients.

00:43:32.596 --> 00:43:35.257
What if a trainer is hustling and working

00:43:35.277 --> 00:43:38.177
with patients every single day and they're

00:43:38.237 --> 00:43:40.057
watching the videos that our colleagues

00:43:40.117 --> 00:43:43.358
create ad nauseum at scale and they're

00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:44.380
learning faster?

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.380
The only differentiator is the letters

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.981
after your name and your license.

00:43:49.141 --> 00:43:50.201
And as Tony pointed out,

00:43:50.260 --> 00:43:52.141
and it made me feel a little lightheaded,

00:43:52.681 --> 00:43:53.722
this was six, eight months ago,

00:43:53.742 --> 00:43:55.202
and you're like,

00:43:55.222 --> 00:43:57.043
the license actually limits you more than

00:43:57.083 --> 00:43:58.262
it allows you to do.

00:43:58.302 --> 00:43:59.702
The only thing it really allows you to

00:43:59.742 --> 00:44:00.983
do is bill insurance.

00:44:02.043 --> 00:44:02.903
You're in the system.

00:44:03.443 --> 00:44:05.264
And it actually limits what you're allowed

00:44:05.284 --> 00:44:05.525
to do.

00:44:05.585 --> 00:44:07.864
Now you are beholden to a scope of

00:44:07.945 --> 00:44:09.985
practice where we've said,

00:44:10.186 --> 00:44:11.485
what is the purpose of a scope of

00:44:11.545 --> 00:44:11.965
practice?

00:44:12.266 --> 00:44:13.527
To protect the consumer.

00:44:13.646 --> 00:44:14.286
Like, really?

00:44:15.963 --> 00:44:16.483
Is that it?

00:44:17.324 --> 00:44:18.586
Does it do that, right?

00:44:18.646 --> 00:44:20.789
So I think the reason these threads sort

00:44:20.831 --> 00:44:24.255
of devolve is psychology, not anatomy,

00:44:24.436 --> 00:44:26.099
not physiology, not business,

00:44:26.179 --> 00:44:27.099
not communications,

00:44:27.661 --> 00:44:30.065
psychology and personal identity.

00:44:30.983 --> 00:44:32.405
And I think for context,

00:44:32.465 --> 00:44:35.628
like I did everything different backwards.

00:44:36.389 --> 00:44:38.893
I was that personal trainer working in

00:44:38.932 --> 00:44:40.134
physical therapy clinics.

00:44:40.313 --> 00:44:43.458
I was associated with great therapists and

00:44:43.498 --> 00:44:44.458
they would do something.

00:44:44.478 --> 00:44:44.918
I'd be like, well,

00:44:44.958 --> 00:44:46.021
why are you doing that?

00:44:46.121 --> 00:44:48.043
And I'd go home and I'd research what

00:44:48.322 --> 00:44:50.786
what the science was behind what they were

00:44:50.826 --> 00:44:51.126
doing.

00:44:52.027 --> 00:44:53.306
I learned the anatomy.

00:44:53.646 --> 00:44:55.768
I understood the mechanics of everything.

00:44:57.427 --> 00:44:59.108
You're taking a smart person,

00:44:59.568 --> 00:45:01.128
and it doesn't matter whether they have

00:45:01.168 --> 00:45:02.150
the degree or not.

00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:04.170
A smart person is going to find the

00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:04.929
information.

00:45:05.510 --> 00:45:07.510
What school theoretically does is it

00:45:07.550 --> 00:45:08.710
teaches you how to learn.

00:45:09.391 --> 00:45:11.552
You don't have to be spoon fed in

00:45:11.592 --> 00:45:12.831
the DPT degree.

00:45:13.152 --> 00:45:14.932
Right.

00:45:15.193 --> 00:45:18.974
It might be the reason I get better

00:45:18.994 --> 00:45:19.693
at cycling.

00:45:20.938 --> 00:45:23.061
I have access to bikes and roads and

00:45:23.121 --> 00:45:23.541
hills.

00:45:24.382 --> 00:45:25.842
I get better at cycling when I sign

00:45:25.882 --> 00:45:27.304
up for a race and get a group

00:45:27.344 --> 00:45:28.786
to cycle with and meet with them three

00:45:28.806 --> 00:45:29.306
times a week.

00:45:29.525 --> 00:45:30.467
That's it, right?

00:45:30.806 --> 00:45:33.670
I'm obligated by myself internally,

00:45:33.829 --> 00:45:35.150
socially, to show up.

00:45:35.411 --> 00:45:36.492
School just says you got to show up

00:45:36.532 --> 00:45:37.753
five days a week for three years.

00:45:38.213 --> 00:45:39.074
That's why you're better.

00:45:39.894 --> 00:45:41.976
But if someone's motivated and does it,

00:45:42.416 --> 00:45:43.277
I'm very sorry.

00:45:43.318 --> 00:45:46.059
The knowledge is not proprietary.

00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:46.579
It just ain't.

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:49.940
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:51.101
So my point in that,

00:45:51.141 --> 00:45:53.081
and that kind of relates into the other

00:45:53.121 --> 00:45:56.364
stuff, if we are moving into a world,

00:45:56.764 --> 00:45:57.746
business world,

00:45:58.045 --> 00:46:00.288
where reimbursement continues to decline,

00:46:00.327 --> 00:46:01.809
which I imagine it's going to,

00:46:02.628 --> 00:46:04.530
cost of the DPT degree is going to

00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:05.630
continue to increase,

00:46:05.672 --> 00:46:07.193
which I imagine it's going to,

00:46:08.474 --> 00:46:10.735
we're looking for new tools that we can

00:46:10.775 --> 00:46:12.255
bring into our arsenal.

00:46:13.356 --> 00:46:16.518
the unlicensed professional who has the

00:46:16.579 --> 00:46:18.780
same brain in their head that I have,

00:46:18.820 --> 00:46:20.501
who has the same learning capacity,

00:46:20.581 --> 00:46:21.342
who has the same,

00:46:22.501 --> 00:46:25.523
they come into an onsite environment where

00:46:25.563 --> 00:46:26.344
we can teach them.

00:46:26.384 --> 00:46:27.965
And in my experience, truthfully,

00:46:28.686 --> 00:46:31.007
unlicensed professionals are far more

00:46:31.166 --> 00:46:33.648
eager to learn from me or whoever the

00:46:33.688 --> 00:46:36.150
therapist is than a licensed professional.

00:46:36.650 --> 00:46:38.911
Because usually when I hire a PT with

00:46:38.931 --> 00:46:39.351
a degree,

00:46:39.931 --> 00:46:41.052
They want to do it their way.

00:46:41.333 --> 00:46:41.594
Yeah.

00:46:41.893 --> 00:46:43.315
And that's fine.

00:46:43.375 --> 00:46:45.456
They've earned that right to do it their

00:46:45.516 --> 00:46:45.878
way.

00:46:46.498 --> 00:46:48.300
But if I want to teach somebody a

00:46:48.380 --> 00:46:51.023
different way or expand ideas and,

00:46:51.063 --> 00:46:51.362
you know,

00:46:52.184 --> 00:46:53.644
I'm going to hire somebody that's not a

00:46:53.704 --> 00:46:56.387
PT and I can teach them everything that

00:46:56.568 --> 00:46:58.650
I want them to do within the culture

00:46:58.690 --> 00:47:00.010
of the business and within what we're

00:47:00.050 --> 00:47:00.391
doing.

00:47:01.331 --> 00:47:02.572
I think that's expandable.

00:47:03.112 --> 00:47:05.373
I think that I have access to far

00:47:05.414 --> 00:47:08.775
more people with good personalities that I

00:47:08.795 --> 00:47:10.436
can bring in if I don't have to

00:47:10.476 --> 00:47:11.436
worry about licensing.

00:47:11.456 --> 00:47:13.418
And if I'm not getting paid for the

00:47:13.577 --> 00:47:15.038
insurance reimbursement anyway,

00:47:15.538 --> 00:47:17.539
there's no reason that I have to stick

00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:17.960
to that.

00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:22.501
And PTs are able to delegate to non-PTs.

00:47:22.601 --> 00:47:23.041
Correct.

00:47:23.501 --> 00:47:25.503
Teach them, coach them, caregivers,

00:47:25.563 --> 00:47:26.702
whatever you want to call them,

00:47:27.222 --> 00:47:28.764
as long as we're not billing insurance.

00:47:29.563 --> 00:47:29.963
Correct.

00:47:30.364 --> 00:47:33.585
So now this is back to the scalability.

00:47:33.704 --> 00:47:35.226
This is a scalable model.

00:47:35.965 --> 00:47:37.286
All I have to do is build a

00:47:37.326 --> 00:47:39.306
good business that satisfies the consumer,

00:47:39.347 --> 00:47:41.527
delivers the value they're expecting,

00:47:41.907 --> 00:47:43.327
and I could probably do it for less

00:47:43.347 --> 00:47:45.168
than the fifty dollar copay like Dave

00:47:45.228 --> 00:47:46.608
referenced earlier in the call.

00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:47.661
Correct.

00:47:47.882 --> 00:47:48.862
And you can charge more for it.

00:47:49.282 --> 00:47:51.766
This brings me back to like my podcast

00:47:51.846 --> 00:47:53.047
episode four.

00:47:53.387 --> 00:47:54.407
I could have stopped there.

00:47:54.989 --> 00:47:56.751
Eric Mara said the three things you need

00:47:56.771 --> 00:47:57.271
to be great.

00:47:57.351 --> 00:47:59.112
He said he was answering for a sports

00:47:59.132 --> 00:47:59.914
physical therapist,

00:47:59.974 --> 00:48:01.596
but this applies to any supplies.

00:48:01.936 --> 00:48:04.139
He said his three A's available.

00:48:05.322 --> 00:48:07.001
You have to be where the person is

00:48:07.021 --> 00:48:07.402
when they need it.

00:48:07.422 --> 00:48:08.123
You got to be open, right?

00:48:08.682 --> 00:48:09.202
Affable.

00:48:09.663 --> 00:48:11.264
If you're a jackass and I have a

00:48:11.304 --> 00:48:13.123
choice between you and a non-jackass,

00:48:13.164 --> 00:48:14.184
I'm going to pick the non-jackass.

00:48:14.643 --> 00:48:15.844
I got to want to work with you.

00:48:16.264 --> 00:48:18.364
And then his last A was adequate.

00:48:19.146 --> 00:48:19.666
Adequate.

00:48:20.246 --> 00:48:22.065
But the people who have the personal

00:48:22.126 --> 00:48:23.947
identity wrapped around the letters after

00:48:23.967 --> 00:48:24.706
their name were...

00:48:24.867 --> 00:48:26.329
Which is ironic we're talking about it now

00:48:26.349 --> 00:48:27.409
because if you're on LinkedIn,

00:48:27.990 --> 00:48:30.534
everybody's getting their certifications

00:48:30.574 --> 00:48:30.833
now.

00:48:31.094 --> 00:48:33.498
The results for OCS, SCS, NCS,

00:48:33.538 --> 00:48:34.338
they all came out.

00:48:34.699 --> 00:48:35.900
I got a diatribe on that for a

00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.380
hot second.

00:48:37.222 --> 00:48:38.762
If you're wrapping yourself up there,

00:48:39.083 --> 00:48:44.704
your third A is not available, affable,

00:48:44.724 --> 00:48:45.304
and adequate.

00:48:45.625 --> 00:48:47.525
It's available, affable, and awesome.

00:48:48.387 --> 00:48:49.106
Look at me.

00:48:49.246 --> 00:48:50.306
I separated myself.

00:48:50.887 --> 00:48:52.168
I think I have a post coming out

00:48:52.188 --> 00:48:55.188
later today that highlights there's two

00:48:55.228 --> 00:48:56.130
times of the year

00:48:57.315 --> 00:48:59.757
that like OCS and NCS and all those

00:48:59.797 --> 00:49:00.637
letters get mentioned.

00:49:00.978 --> 00:49:02.579
It's the day the results for the current

00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:03.318
class come out.

00:49:03.579 --> 00:49:04.539
And that was yesterday.

00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:06.780
And everyone's saying, I'm thrilled.

00:49:07.041 --> 00:49:08.503
I'm proud to announce.

00:49:08.643 --> 00:49:09.362
And you should be.

00:49:09.782 --> 00:49:11.304
You studied more and you learned

00:49:11.344 --> 00:49:11.744
something.

00:49:12.947 --> 00:49:14.007
The second day of the year,

00:49:14.047 --> 00:49:17.811
these words pop up the most is when

00:49:17.851 --> 00:49:20.333
they have to recertify ten years from now.

00:49:20.672 --> 00:49:22.775
And then all you hear is this did

00:49:22.875 --> 00:49:23.876
nothing for me.

00:49:24.135 --> 00:49:25.617
I got no extra money.

00:49:25.956 --> 00:49:28.139
I've got to pay to recertify,

00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.360
which my post questions,

00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.782
you knew this was the case.

00:49:33.242 --> 00:49:34.583
You've looked around.

00:49:35.103 --> 00:49:36.403
You've saw everything.

00:49:36.443 --> 00:49:37.505
You don't get any more money.

00:49:37.525 --> 00:49:39.445
You're like, I don't care about the money.

00:49:40.005 --> 00:49:41.626
I care about my patients.

00:49:41.726 --> 00:49:44.427
And then something happens in ten years

00:49:44.788 --> 00:49:48.389
where people, they age like milk.

00:49:48.829 --> 00:49:50.690
It just sours completely.

00:49:50.811 --> 00:49:52.150
And ten years later, people are like,

00:49:52.471 --> 00:49:53.612
this is stupid.

00:49:54.492 --> 00:49:55.572
This is bull crap.

00:49:55.813 --> 00:49:57.293
You all got sold a bill of goods.

00:49:57.333 --> 00:49:58.114
And I'm like, my man,

00:49:58.494 --> 00:49:59.733
it wasn't just fine print.

00:50:00.034 --> 00:50:00.855
It was in the headline.

00:50:01.364 --> 00:50:03.646
Their ego took a hit because they realized

00:50:04.106 --> 00:50:07.228
that there was no ROI or other than,

00:50:07.387 --> 00:50:08.969
I mean, maybe some, but like not,

00:50:09.108 --> 00:50:10.309
it's not going to get you a pay

00:50:10.349 --> 00:50:10.688
raise.

00:50:11.349 --> 00:50:13.590
And then they post online, they're mad.

00:50:13.610 --> 00:50:15.231
They're like, I have to pay to recertify.

00:50:15.251 --> 00:50:15.931
You should be paying me.

00:50:15.952 --> 00:50:16.112
Right.

00:50:17.032 --> 00:50:18.632
So yeah.

00:50:18.693 --> 00:50:20.114
So there's like a little bit of like

00:50:20.193 --> 00:50:21.094
a buyer's remorse.

00:50:21.213 --> 00:50:21.934
Ten years later.

00:50:22.625 --> 00:50:23.204
Yup.

00:50:23.364 --> 00:50:25.726
And it's so funny to like paying for

00:50:25.786 --> 00:50:28.367
this and I've got to prove that I'm

00:50:28.447 --> 00:50:28.666
good.

00:50:28.907 --> 00:50:30.487
Who are you to, I'm like, guys,

00:50:31.108 --> 00:50:32.489
no one, nothing changed this.

00:50:33.088 --> 00:50:35.250
If there's anything in like most education

00:50:35.289 --> 00:50:35.949
is like, trust me,

00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:37.471
it doesn't change quickly.

00:50:37.771 --> 00:50:39.251
This was the same a decade ago when

00:50:39.271 --> 00:50:42.532
you bought in, you changed or,

00:50:42.733 --> 00:50:43.952
or I should say some things that you

00:50:44.012 --> 00:50:46.153
wanted to change, didn't change.

00:50:46.293 --> 00:50:47.195
And you're mad about it.

00:50:47.215 --> 00:50:47.855
And I get it.

00:50:47.875 --> 00:50:50.096
But at the same token, uh,

00:50:50.115 --> 00:50:50.715
read the fine print.

00:50:53.237 --> 00:50:53.478
Yeah.

00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:54.460
All right.

00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:55.443
Let's do parting shots.

00:50:58.755 --> 00:51:00.436
Oh man, I'll start.

00:51:00.476 --> 00:51:03.838
So the challenge of productizing your own

00:51:03.878 --> 00:51:06.438
service is no different than any other

00:51:06.579 --> 00:51:07.018
endeavor,

00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.221
no different than starting a course,

00:51:09.240 --> 00:51:10.221
starting a practice,

00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:12.722
starting any other type of gig.

00:51:13.503 --> 00:51:14.923
I hope more therapists do it.

00:51:15.063 --> 00:51:17.385
I hope that folks will follow what Tony

00:51:17.405 --> 00:51:20.286
has done and expand on that and create

00:51:20.306 --> 00:51:20.967
the next McKenzie,

00:51:20.987 --> 00:51:22.987
create the next Total Motion Release.

00:51:24.338 --> 00:51:25.518
get out of your own head get in

00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:27.400
front of people and i agree with tony's

00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:28.940
kind of overall theme which is like you

00:51:28.981 --> 00:51:30.001
got to get it out there you can

00:51:30.041 --> 00:51:31.382
help more therapists you can help more

00:51:31.422 --> 00:51:34.724
people more patients um but the crux is

00:51:35.085 --> 00:51:36.925
would they want it and you're not going

00:51:36.945 --> 00:51:39.288
to know if they want it until you

00:51:39.467 --> 00:51:41.608
offer something and you say it's this much

00:51:41.768 --> 00:51:44.231
money and let's do that exchange and then

00:51:44.351 --> 00:51:45.811
you may or may not have a business

00:51:47.501 --> 00:51:49.181
Will Boyd is here.

00:51:49.242 --> 00:51:50.023
Thank you, Will.

00:51:50.163 --> 00:51:51.563
He shared a video,

00:51:51.623 --> 00:51:53.605
a Hormozy video with us that I want

00:51:53.625 --> 00:51:54.664
to talk about next week.

00:51:54.684 --> 00:51:56.907
Yes, yes, yes.

00:51:57.266 --> 00:51:58.788
They started concierge.

00:51:58.827 --> 00:52:00.048
They have brick and mortar.

00:52:00.088 --> 00:52:01.608
They've raised their prices multiple

00:52:01.648 --> 00:52:01.989
times.

00:52:02.030 --> 00:52:03.369
They're still not earning a profit.

00:52:03.771 --> 00:52:04.070
Wow.

00:52:04.190 --> 00:52:06.411
And so I tell you,

00:52:06.572 --> 00:52:08.893
as much as I hear all the complaints

00:52:08.934 --> 00:52:11.175
about affordability and nobody makes money

00:52:11.215 --> 00:52:13.335
and how do we buy a house,

00:52:13.456 --> 00:52:15.478
every time I watch the Hormozy videos,

00:52:16.097 --> 00:52:18.659
videos and webinars and stuff like there

00:52:18.740 --> 00:52:21.503
are so many people in the seven figure

00:52:21.543 --> 00:52:25.706
range with just random businesses um the

00:52:25.806 --> 00:52:29.650
money is all over the place it's just

00:52:29.811 --> 00:52:32.353
understanding a couple simple principles

00:52:32.592 --> 00:52:35.815
of you know exchanging value that's it

00:52:35.836 --> 00:52:36.117
jimmy

00:52:37.673 --> 00:52:39.594
I would say there's probably more ways to

00:52:39.675 --> 00:52:41.635
make a living the way you want to

00:52:41.715 --> 00:52:44.777
do than there are to make a living

00:52:45.237 --> 00:52:46.577
the normal, the easy way.

00:52:47.777 --> 00:52:49.699
The opposite of what Chris Corner,

00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:50.898
if you guys look him up,

00:52:50.958 --> 00:52:54.059
he would call them boring businesses.

00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:55.501
There's ways to do this.

00:52:57.423 --> 00:52:58.905
mistake i think we make is we try

00:52:58.945 --> 00:53:00.204
to say well how would i scale this

00:53:00.224 --> 00:53:02.326
to fifty states and four thousand people

00:53:02.445 --> 00:53:04.507
on day one first of all see if

00:53:04.547 --> 00:53:06.628
you want to do it right pick your

00:53:06.668 --> 00:53:08.068
hard is what i mean i feel like

00:53:08.108 --> 00:53:11.349
if we ranked all of our parting shots

00:53:11.429 --> 00:53:13.030
i think i have like three that i

00:53:13.070 --> 00:53:14.331
just cycled through but i say them in

00:53:14.351 --> 00:53:16.311
different ways choose your own hard make

00:53:16.331 --> 00:53:17.572
sure you understand what business you're

00:53:17.652 --> 00:53:19.572
in and ask yourself that but like

00:53:20.333 --> 00:53:22.554
There really is more opportunity than

00:53:22.574 --> 00:53:25.034
there is disopportunity, in my opinion.

00:53:25.333 --> 00:53:27.175
And nothing says you can't do both.

00:53:27.255 --> 00:53:28.394
I give this talk all the time where

00:53:28.434 --> 00:53:28.695
I say,

00:53:28.994 --> 00:53:30.275
go get a nine to five job,

00:53:30.594 --> 00:53:32.215
get someone to pay you for forty hours,

00:53:32.416 --> 00:53:33.135
turn your brain off,

00:53:33.175 --> 00:53:34.135
do whatever you want there,

00:53:34.695 --> 00:53:36.097
and then do stuff on the side that

00:53:36.137 --> 00:53:36.916
satisfies an itch.

00:53:37.257 --> 00:53:38.237
I've always done that.

00:53:38.516 --> 00:53:40.117
As out of the box as Jimmy McKay

00:53:40.217 --> 00:53:41.018
is, I'm not.

00:53:41.097 --> 00:53:42.318
I'm using air quotes there on a podcast.

00:53:42.958 --> 00:53:43.938
I've always had like,

00:53:44.097 --> 00:53:45.579
I'll take the nine to five and then

00:53:45.958 --> 00:53:46.918
five o'clock on Friday,

00:53:46.938 --> 00:53:48.579
I'll fly somewhere and do a weird thing.

00:53:48.940 --> 00:53:50.059
That makes me feel good.

00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:52.400
I feel safe, but I scratch the itch.

00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:53.780
You can do that too.

00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:55.561
It doesn't need to just be any of

00:53:55.581 --> 00:53:57.161
the things that we mentioned today.

00:53:57.922 --> 00:53:58.541
It's your version.

00:53:58.561 --> 00:53:58.882
All right,

00:53:59.081 --> 00:54:01.222
let's make sure we talk about Will's video

00:54:01.342 --> 00:54:01.882
next week.

00:54:02.443 --> 00:54:03.402
Enjoy your weekend.

00:54:03.422 --> 00:54:05.043
We're back on Tuesday.

00:54:07.967 --> 00:54:08.148
That's it.

00:54:08.168 --> 00:54:08.407
We're out.

00:54:08.427 --> 00:54:09.949
Boys, what the hell are you doing?

00:54:09.989 --> 00:54:12.809
Follow Tony Meritato on YouTube at Total

00:54:12.849 --> 00:54:13.889
Therapy Solution.

00:54:13.949 --> 00:54:14.929
Find Dave Kittle at

00:54:14.949 --> 00:54:18.150
conciergepainrelief.com and on YouTube at

00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:19.349
The Dave Kittle Show.

00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:22.811
And follow Jimmy McKay at PT Podcasts on

00:54:22.831 --> 00:54:23.971
YouTube, the socials,

00:54:24.070 --> 00:54:25.871
and wherever you binge podcasts you

00:54:25.891 --> 00:54:27.532
pretend are for CEUs.

00:54:27.851 --> 00:54:29.271
And hey, just a reminder,

00:54:29.771 --> 00:54:31.032
none of this was for advice.

00:54:31.072 --> 00:54:32.411
This was for entertainment only.

00:54:32.431 --> 00:54:34.253
Our lawyers say that counts.

00:54:34.333 --> 00:54:35.213
Thanks, Keith.