Proprioception Isn’t Optional

WEBVTT

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You're listening to the P.T.

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Pinecast,

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where smart people in health care come to

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make noise.

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Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

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Thanks, VoiceOverGuy.

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Big thanks to Empower EMR.

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If your clinic is stuck in an EMR

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that slows you down, that's not forever.

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You can just get a different one.

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Even if it's like, oh,

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getting a new EMR,

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that would be so frustrating.

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Yeah,

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it's that or dealing with the one you

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have now.

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Empower gives you speed, clean workflows,

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and features PTs actually asked for.

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which is nice.

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Better notes, faster documentation,

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smooth operations.

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Every time I say smooth operations,

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I hear that song, Smooth Operator,

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from like the eighties.

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All wrapped up in customer support that

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doesn't ghost you.

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EmpowerEMR.com.

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That's EmpowerEMR.

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Just look.

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Just look.

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Take a look.

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Today,

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Our guest spent over a decade ranked among

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the top ten athletes in the world.

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I'm not even the top ten athletes in

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this room,

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and I'm in a room by myself.

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And when she wasn't dominating on the

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court,

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She was cleaning carpets at night to fund

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the dream.

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I love the hustle.

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Then she went all in on neuroscience,

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turned her PhD into a mission,

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and now builds tech that trains the one

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thing we never do in clinics,

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proprioception.

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From camper living to cutting edge motor

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learning,

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let's meet the founder of Panther Tech,

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Joe Shaddock.

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Joe, welcome to this program.

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hey what an intro huh i'm like i

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have a rule i have a rule what's

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that the rule is if if there's ever

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a baby or a dog on screen you

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have to at least introduce the baby of

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a dog so who's over your shoulder well

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we've got two there is his name is

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sparrow s-p-e-r-o and he's wearing a cone

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of shame because he he likes he's got

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a little skin wound and he's like to

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lick it but

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His name stands for breath or light or

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hope.

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I like it.

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Yeah.

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Perfect.

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All right.

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So where do we kick this thing off?

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Where are we or why are we teaching

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movement wrong, Joe?

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What are we doing wrong here?

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Help us understand.

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I'll tell you.

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Can you see a feeling or hear what

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something feels like?

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You know when you have that perfect swing

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or shot or posture or in sport,

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of course, but whatever it might be.

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You can't describe a feeling.

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It's like and I might have said this

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before.

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It's like if an alien came down from

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space and said,

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I want you to tell me what salt

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tastes like.

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What would you say?

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Salty.

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Yeah.

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What do I do?

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Right.

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And that's why we struggle so much with

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trying to describe how efficient kinematic

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chain is.

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effective movement feels like is because

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you can't describe it but when you get

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it boy you just can't help but chase

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after right right so right now we use

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words and metaphors and pictures and say

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jimmy make look at that guy can you

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do what that guy's doing or push pull

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extend stretch to get you to do the

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thing we want you to do to feel

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the thing we want you to feel um

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it's just not very good words and pictures

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are just they they require the language

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processing centers of the brain and

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What you say,

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pull here might feel different or be a

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different definition than what I say.

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So I saw a gap and I'm like,

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I want to see if I can fix

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it.

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That's all.

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Okay.

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So I understand that why we're sort of.

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not aligned on the way we teach it.

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So you said we don't train space.

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We don't train speed.

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We do treat, treat or train speed,

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power and attention.

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We don't train proprioception or feel why

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not.

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And then how the heck do we do

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that?

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Right.

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I don't know why is because it's,

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it's like the foundation of navigating

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your own body through the world.

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Right.

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Um,

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You're right.

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We train everything else, speed, strength,

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attention, focus, all the things, timing.

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But the way that you perform well at

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all those other things is to have a

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mastery of your own body and time and

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space.

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And we don't teach that.

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We try.

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You remember the head, shoulders,

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knees and toes, knees and toes,

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little kid.

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OK, I know.

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Anyway,

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that's kind of the beginning of it.

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Like, oh, yeah.

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Crossing the midline with, you know,

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development age athletes,

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those types of things are kids.

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But we just kind of stop and we

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assume like, well, you know,

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if you're good enough or talented,

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you'll just pick it up on the way.

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And that's why Johnny sits on the bench

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all season.

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And the other one, you know,

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is a star quarterback.

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But I disagree.

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I think proprioception is a skill.

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It can be trained on the fundamentals of

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neuroplasticity, period.

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And if we don't do it,

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we lose out.

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Here's a phrase I don't think I heard

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in PT school,

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but I was also in the back of

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the room the second and third year.

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Kinesthetic dissonance.

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What is that?

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And why is it powerful?

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And then I'll figure out how the hell

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I missed it in PT school.

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Oh, I love it.

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I love it.

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Well,

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you wouldn't have heard it in PT because

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I can brag a little bit.

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We made it up.

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Yeah, those are the best.

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So you've heard of obviously cognitive

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dissonance,

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which is conflicting beliefs at the same

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place.

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And the mental gymnastics you have to do

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to hold those two beliefs at the same

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time.

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Right.

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Kinesthetic dissonance,

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it's a cousin of that.

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It's not the same.

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You can't actually be in two places at

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once.

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But when you think that you're,

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for example, here with your racket prep,

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I'll just go racquetball,

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but you're actually here.

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That's a problem.

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And unless you bring awareness to where I

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think I am, to where I really am,

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you're playing,

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you're trying to steer a car that the

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steering's off or the URT on the map

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is pointed the wrong way.

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If you can't navigate your body around the

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world or the field or the environment or

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the warehouse or space,

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if you don't have an accurate model of

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where your body is in time and space.

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And that's where kinesthetic dissonance

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comes.

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That's what it is.

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It's that.

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There wasn't a term.

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You sort of had – you were like,

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hey, there's this feeling.

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There's this idea.

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I need to slap some words on it,

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and that's how phrases are born.

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You mentioned racket in the intro.

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I mentioned top ten athlete in the world.

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It's not bragging if I ask you to

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talk about it,

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so –

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Talk about what you were top ten in

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the world.

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You know, I mean,

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how many top ten in the world of

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anything did we get to meet in our

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day?

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Not many.

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Well, awesome.

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Thank you, Jimmy.

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I'm going to have a problem with leaving

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the room because my head's going to be

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so big.

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So racquetball is not like other racquet

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sports.

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It's kind of redheaded stepchild.

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There's no money in it.

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It's kind of the beer drinking crowd as

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opposed to squash or tennis.

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Right.

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So you had to do a lot of

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other things to.

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Support your racquetball habit,

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like you mentioned in the show.

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Yeah,

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I played for thirteen years straight,

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missed one tournament because I got the

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wrong date.

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And near the end of my career,

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I peaked at number six.

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But I stayed in the top ten ten

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years.

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And it's such an amazing sport.

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Have you played, Jimmy?

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I've played a little bit.

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My dad's firehouse had a racquetball court

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in it, and he was so damn good.

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So I played.

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I played, you know, I've played a little.

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Not well.

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Yeah.

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Well, it's a mate, right?

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So it's not like tennis where you're like,

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hey, Bob, how was life?

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No,

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you're bumping around and running around

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your opponent, which is odd.

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I mean, for that type of sport,

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I've played hockey.

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I'm bumping into my opponent.

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But in tennis, in squash, in badminton,

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in other racket sports,

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you're separated by a net.

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And I don't know, to me,

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racquetball is Thunderdome.

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It is.

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And it's three-dimensional.

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It's complex.

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It's like chess.

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It's eight surfaces.

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The ball, it's loud.

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It's aggressive.

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I mean,

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you can see why it got so popular,

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especially with the youth back in the day.

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Wait, wait, wait.

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You said eight surfaces.

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What are the eight surfaces?

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Well, you got your four walls, one, two,

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three, four.

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or maybe six,

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and then you got your floor.

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Okay, I got nervous.

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I was like,

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maybe I wasn't playing racquetball

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correctly.

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I was like,

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maybe this is why you're top ten.

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I'm thinking six, and you're thinking...

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I'm playing checkers.

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Joe's playing chess.

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What did being... What did being...

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a top ten at anything,

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but we'll say with racquetball,

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what did that give you that you took

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elsewhere?

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What are the types of things, skills,

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that you were able to translate into

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neuroscience or the other aspects of your

00:08:38.486 --> 00:08:38.826
life?

00:08:39.268 --> 00:08:39.687
Well, first,

00:08:39.727 --> 00:08:41.109
let me qualify that by saying I don't

00:08:41.149 --> 00:08:42.450
think it's necessarily healthy.

00:08:43.171 --> 00:08:47.013
People on the overachieving disorder

00:08:47.033 --> 00:08:47.474
spectrum,

00:08:47.494 --> 00:08:48.695
which is kind of what I call it,

00:08:49.534 --> 00:08:51.256
and in no way do I mean to...

00:08:52.669 --> 00:08:55.994
disparage real disorders that have really

00:08:56.033 --> 00:08:56.855
consequences.

00:08:56.934 --> 00:08:59.878
But you wake up and you think,

00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:03.480
in fact, our company motto is,

00:09:03.541 --> 00:09:04.743
if you wake up thinking about how to

00:09:04.763 --> 00:09:06.004
get better, we get you.

00:09:06.876 --> 00:09:07.417
And that's it.

00:09:07.496 --> 00:09:10.658
It's just singular focus on this thing.

00:09:10.798 --> 00:09:12.519
And my wife, she's like, hey,

00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:14.701
remember me over here?

00:09:15.181 --> 00:09:16.981
So I often have to remember like, oh,

00:09:17.062 --> 00:09:17.682
yeah, right.

00:09:17.743 --> 00:09:18.482
There's other things.

00:09:18.964 --> 00:09:19.583
Great at doing that.

00:09:19.624 --> 00:09:20.904
But yeah, there's other things than that.

00:09:20.924 --> 00:09:22.085
And I didn't realize that till after I

00:09:22.125 --> 00:09:24.505
retired December eight, two thousand ten.

00:09:24.525 --> 00:09:25.147
But who's counting?

00:09:26.206 --> 00:09:27.748
There was a whole other world out there.

00:09:28.269 --> 00:09:28.629
Yeah.

00:09:29.371 --> 00:09:30.153
Yeah.

00:09:30.173 --> 00:09:31.153
Do you want to thank our friends that

00:09:31.173 --> 00:09:32.875
we'll be seeing at CSM in just a

00:09:32.895 --> 00:09:33.355
little bit?

00:09:33.817 --> 00:09:34.898
US Physical Therapy.

00:09:35.337 --> 00:09:36.580
You've built something special,

00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:38.322
but scaling your clinic and planning for

00:09:38.361 --> 00:09:39.863
what's next can feel overwhelming.

00:09:39.903 --> 00:09:41.044
At US Physical Therapy,

00:09:41.946 --> 00:09:43.706
we partner with clinics who want to grow

00:09:43.748 --> 00:09:45.229
without giving up their identity.

00:09:45.528 --> 00:09:46.330
You stay in control.

00:09:47.135 --> 00:09:48.035
We bring the support.

00:09:48.076 --> 00:09:51.217
Find out more at usphpartnership.com.

00:09:51.577 --> 00:09:54.918
That's usphpartnership.com.

00:09:55.739 --> 00:09:57.639
So now you went from racquetball and

00:09:58.100 --> 00:09:59.841
Thunderdome with a racket in your hand,

00:10:00.341 --> 00:10:02.841
and you went and got a neuroscience PhD.

00:10:03.942 --> 00:10:06.363
After that, you're in startup mode.

00:10:07.144 --> 00:10:09.684
And what do clinicians need to know from

00:10:09.845 --> 00:10:10.985
each of those worlds?

00:10:11.024 --> 00:10:12.306
I want to go a little further in

00:10:12.346 --> 00:10:12.826
the story.

00:10:13.456 --> 00:10:15.557
okay well uh near the end of my

00:10:15.597 --> 00:10:18.000
racquetball career i realized that um i

00:10:18.020 --> 00:10:19.663
can't do this forever obviously so i got

00:10:19.702 --> 00:10:21.945
a master's in sports science and that kind

00:10:22.004 --> 00:10:23.567
of kind of it learned all the words

00:10:23.606 --> 00:10:25.448
for all the things that i've been training

00:10:25.489 --> 00:10:27.610
with and doing for your shaking your head

00:10:27.630 --> 00:10:29.153
i'm like i didn't know this had a

00:10:29.253 --> 00:10:32.456
name and and a theory and a framework

00:10:32.495 --> 00:10:34.057
behind it right so that

00:10:34.957 --> 00:10:35.899
And then I'm like, well,

00:10:36.318 --> 00:10:37.941
I got to do this, this neuroscience thing,

00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:39.342
all about human performance.

00:10:39.543 --> 00:10:42.105
So I went and did that in Nebraska.

00:10:42.525 --> 00:10:44.087
And I guess the,

00:10:44.587 --> 00:10:45.288
put me on the spot here.

00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:48.091
What do clinicians want to know about,

00:10:48.272 --> 00:10:50.235
or what do I think would be valuable

00:10:50.495 --> 00:10:51.296
in their practices?

00:10:53.783 --> 00:10:54.403
Is that the question?

00:10:54.942 --> 00:10:56.563
Yeah.

00:10:56.724 --> 00:10:56.984
Oh, okay.

00:10:57.004 --> 00:10:59.504
I think that it's funny how we separate

00:10:59.524 --> 00:11:02.466
like rehab movement and control from ping

00:11:02.485 --> 00:11:06.226
pong mastery and control from lifting a

00:11:06.287 --> 00:11:07.667
box or working on a warehouse.

00:11:07.687 --> 00:11:09.168
Like we separate all that out in these

00:11:09.187 --> 00:11:10.648
little silos and I understand it,

00:11:11.068 --> 00:11:13.249
but it's not helpful, right?

00:11:13.688 --> 00:11:15.049
If you're trying to feel a certain

00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:18.030
sensation that you want to recognize in

00:11:18.071 --> 00:11:19.311
whatever task you're doing,

00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:21.731
learning sit to stand or stand to sit,

00:11:22.706 --> 00:11:24.027
reaching for a glass,

00:11:24.167 --> 00:11:25.506
any of the tasks that we do,

00:11:26.207 --> 00:11:28.149
it's still the same body neurophysiology

00:11:28.168 --> 00:11:28.969
that you're dealing with,

00:11:28.989 --> 00:11:30.249
because you need to know where your body

00:11:30.288 --> 00:11:31.250
is in time and space.

00:11:31.950 --> 00:11:33.610
And time is important, right?

00:11:33.691 --> 00:11:35.932
Time and space, because you can't.

00:11:36.350 --> 00:11:38.231
close your hand before you reach for the

00:11:38.251 --> 00:11:38.892
glass, right?

00:11:38.912 --> 00:11:40.452
That's a functionally dead movement,

00:11:40.513 --> 00:11:41.474
right?

00:11:41.514 --> 00:11:42.735
So I think if we,

00:11:43.095 --> 00:11:44.875
we as a community and I'm not a

00:11:44.895 --> 00:11:46.616
clinician, um,

00:11:46.636 --> 00:11:49.597
look at stop isolating a movement to a

00:11:49.658 --> 00:11:51.879
certain task and, uh,

00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:53.299
whether you're in the clinic or all those

00:11:53.321 --> 00:11:54.841
places I mentioned and look at it as

00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:55.501
like a whole way,

00:11:55.542 --> 00:11:57.263
the body operates in the world,

00:11:57.342 --> 00:11:58.082
in the whole world,

00:11:58.503 --> 00:12:00.985
not just when they're there in your clinic

00:12:01.004 --> 00:12:02.525
for half hour.

00:12:02.966 --> 00:12:03.005
Um,

00:12:04.318 --> 00:12:06.840
The actionable advice on that is why we

00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:08.160
built the CAT,

00:12:08.181 --> 00:12:09.221
kinesthetic awareness training,

00:12:09.860 --> 00:12:11.402
is to merge where you think you are

00:12:11.741 --> 00:12:13.682
or you actually are with the task that

00:12:13.702 --> 00:12:14.222
you want to do.

00:12:14.302 --> 00:12:17.724
And so it's immediate applicability,

00:12:17.764 --> 00:12:18.384
is that the word,

00:12:19.985 --> 00:12:22.086
to what you want your client to leave

00:12:22.105 --> 00:12:22.745
your clinic with.

00:12:22.765 --> 00:12:24.385
Understood.

00:12:24.426 --> 00:12:25.746
Does that make some sense?

00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:26.700
Yes,

00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:28.441
and then you went right into my radio

00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:30.282
segue to my next question, which is,

00:12:30.982 --> 00:12:32.342
so what does this thing do?

00:12:32.703 --> 00:12:34.345
Talk to me about Panther Tech and CAT,

00:12:34.404 --> 00:12:36.706
and how does it actually train

00:12:36.826 --> 00:12:37.686
proprioception?

00:12:37.706 --> 00:12:39.748
This is where you get to pitch now,

00:12:39.827 --> 00:12:40.067
Jill.

00:12:40.207 --> 00:12:41.408
Tell us what this thing is,

00:12:41.808 --> 00:12:43.309
and what do we do?

00:12:43.409 --> 00:12:44.029
Okay,

00:12:44.090 --> 00:12:48.231
so the CAT comes on a little device

00:12:48.251 --> 00:12:48.793
like this.

00:12:48.812 --> 00:12:50.474
It looks like this.

00:12:50.693 --> 00:12:51.974
Actually, I have one on right now.

00:12:53.658 --> 00:12:55.119
It looks like a beeper from the night,

00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:56.499
from the eighties, a little bit smaller.

00:12:57.038 --> 00:12:58.980
And it's a mix between a motion capture

00:12:59.019 --> 00:12:59.440
sensor,

00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.380
single site motion capture sensor and a

00:13:01.421 --> 00:13:03.442
shock collar, but don't, don't freak out.

00:13:03.461 --> 00:13:04.542
It doesn't shock anybody.

00:13:05.363 --> 00:13:08.524
It responds to whoever's wearing it.

00:13:08.644 --> 00:13:10.524
They're real time movements with beeps and

00:13:10.565 --> 00:13:12.504
vibrations that guide them into and

00:13:12.524 --> 00:13:13.426
through a movement.

00:13:13.846 --> 00:13:16.547
It's completely operator driven.

00:13:17.051 --> 00:13:19.793
So it's not a whole database of we

00:13:19.832 --> 00:13:21.573
think we're going to teach you how to

00:13:21.634 --> 00:13:23.115
swing a baseball bat or do a knee

00:13:23.174 --> 00:13:23.654
extension.

00:13:23.695 --> 00:13:24.696
Like, no, it's not that.

00:13:24.875 --> 00:13:27.736
It's a communication tool for an athlete

00:13:28.437 --> 00:13:30.178
to listen to a coach or a patient

00:13:30.198 --> 00:13:33.100
to listen to a clinician or a worker

00:13:33.181 --> 00:13:35.402
to listen to a crew chief or soldier

00:13:35.422 --> 00:13:36.222
to listen to captain.

00:13:36.923 --> 00:13:38.783
It's a communication tool for movement

00:13:38.823 --> 00:13:41.666
educators to use with their clients so

00:13:41.686 --> 00:13:43.927
that the ambiguity of words and metaphors

00:13:43.947 --> 00:13:45.768
and pictures is gone.

00:13:45.888 --> 00:13:46.708
It's designed for

00:13:47.259 --> 00:13:50.639
Short term, low rep, high focus use,

00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:52.720
out of context,

00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.421
meaning we have a lot of players that

00:13:55.961 --> 00:13:59.221
do their athletes and patients that do it

00:14:00.662 --> 00:14:02.003
in the hallway or in the living room.

00:14:02.043 --> 00:14:03.702
So you don't need a big motion capture

00:14:03.743 --> 00:14:04.043
sensor.

00:14:04.082 --> 00:14:05.384
You do it for a few minutes before

00:14:05.423 --> 00:14:06.364
you go into your craft.

00:14:08.678 --> 00:14:10.220
And it's run by, let's see,

00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:11.539
where did I go?

00:14:11.779 --> 00:14:13.020
Oh, iOS, small portable device,

00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:15.381
iOS or Android.

00:14:16.022 --> 00:14:20.863
And it's a tool that helps people.

00:14:20.923 --> 00:14:22.323
I hate to use the word muscle memory,

00:14:22.364 --> 00:14:24.083
but accelerates muscle memory is what it

00:14:24.104 --> 00:14:25.004
does.

00:14:25.144 --> 00:14:25.705
Understood.

00:14:27.816 --> 00:14:29.437
Now walk us through, how does it work?

00:14:30.878 --> 00:14:31.677
Who's using it?

00:14:32.357 --> 00:14:33.078
How are they using it?

00:14:33.099 --> 00:14:35.159
What are they looking for it to do?

00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.801
I understand sort of rudimentarily what it

00:14:37.821 --> 00:14:38.942
looks like and what it can do,

00:14:38.981 --> 00:14:40.962
but like what's it look like, feel like,

00:14:41.023 --> 00:14:41.943
taste like in action?

00:14:42.124 --> 00:14:44.085
I'll pull it out right here.

00:14:44.125 --> 00:14:44.705
So here it is.

00:14:44.745 --> 00:14:46.145
It's on right now, right?

00:14:47.005 --> 00:14:48.326
Essentially how you would use it is you

00:14:48.366 --> 00:14:50.408
put it on your person.

00:14:50.548 --> 00:14:51.668
I'll just tuck it right back here.

00:14:53.023 --> 00:14:54.183
And if I wanted them to learn,

00:14:54.244 --> 00:14:57.385
for example, a sit to stand transition,

00:14:57.947 --> 00:15:00.587
what I might do is capture this position.

00:15:00.628 --> 00:15:01.328
So it learns.

00:15:01.349 --> 00:15:02.490
We press a button on the app.

00:15:02.509 --> 00:15:03.629
It learns what you teach it.

00:15:03.929 --> 00:15:06.451
Just like saying, yes, Mrs. Smith,

00:15:06.611 --> 00:15:08.232
that's how far I want you to lean

00:15:08.293 --> 00:15:09.813
over before you stand up for your

00:15:09.854 --> 00:15:10.414
transition.

00:15:10.875 --> 00:15:13.015
As you do that, you press a button.

00:15:13.677 --> 00:15:14.837
The thing remembers it.

00:15:15.337 --> 00:15:16.719
And then in your in your.

00:15:17.677 --> 00:15:19.238
putting it into context, you say, okay,

00:15:19.258 --> 00:15:20.418
I want you to lean forward and find

00:15:20.438 --> 00:15:21.379
the beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:22.561
Oh, okay.

00:15:23.061 --> 00:15:24.402
I wasn't going far enough or I was

00:15:24.442 --> 00:15:25.163
going too far.

00:15:25.743 --> 00:15:28.745
And so in the moment that you teach

00:15:28.885 --> 00:15:30.366
the movement with the words and metaphors

00:15:30.386 --> 00:15:30.746
and all that,

00:15:30.787 --> 00:15:32.268
it gives us physical sensation,

00:15:32.307 --> 00:15:34.950
vibrations on the body that directly

00:15:34.970 --> 00:15:36.591
communicate what that should feel like.

00:15:36.611 --> 00:15:38.113
It feels like this, beep, beep, beep.

00:15:38.232 --> 00:15:39.073
Okay, now I can stand.

00:15:40.355 --> 00:15:40.715
Beep, beep, beep.

00:15:40.835 --> 00:15:41.916
Okay, now I can sit.

00:15:41.956 --> 00:15:42.115
But

00:15:42.898 --> 00:15:43.918
You can wear it anywhere on the body.

00:15:44.178 --> 00:15:45.941
We've used it on the top of the

00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:47.701
foot for dorsiflexion and drop foot.

00:15:48.163 --> 00:15:49.884
Use it on the hip for hip rotation,

00:15:50.345 --> 00:15:51.325
obviously posture.

00:15:51.785 --> 00:15:53.927
Use it on the head for some baseball

00:15:54.528 --> 00:15:57.791
and hockey and cervical dysfunction

00:15:57.831 --> 00:15:58.371
patients.

00:15:59.653 --> 00:16:01.995
Used it for, what's it called, hip drop?

00:16:03.436 --> 00:16:05.057
Yeah, Trendelenburg gait or hip drop.

00:16:05.217 --> 00:16:05.298
Yep.

00:16:05.686 --> 00:16:05.946
Yeah.

00:16:06.147 --> 00:16:07.889
And so you can set it to either

00:16:08.769 --> 00:16:10.851
provide feedback when the patient is doing

00:16:10.892 --> 00:16:13.755
it correctly or provide feedback when

00:16:13.775 --> 00:16:14.697
they're doing it wrong,

00:16:15.057 --> 00:16:16.458
meaning a habit that they don't know that

00:16:16.499 --> 00:16:17.240
they're still doing.

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.442
Right.

00:16:20.482 --> 00:16:20.844
What else?

00:16:23.318 --> 00:16:25.980
I would say, what's the goal?

00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:26.801
What are the goals?

00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:28.461
And what's the output mechanism?

00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:30.022
What's the feedback?

00:16:30.101 --> 00:16:31.042
How do I get better?

00:16:31.101 --> 00:16:34.062
So you're saying it's giving you feedback

00:16:34.302 --> 00:16:37.625
in session versus watching video later.

00:16:38.125 --> 00:16:39.985
I can't feel that video,

00:16:40.125 --> 00:16:43.047
but I can say, okay, my racket's low.

00:16:44.407 --> 00:16:46.508
But I want to know what it feels

00:16:46.567 --> 00:16:48.067
like when my racket's right.

00:16:48.129 --> 00:16:49.668
I want to know what it feels like,

00:16:49.749 --> 00:16:51.470
not just what I think I look like.

00:16:52.294 --> 00:16:53.676
Do I have that?

00:16:53.755 --> 00:16:54.076
Yeah.

00:16:54.096 --> 00:16:54.176
Okay.

00:16:54.317 --> 00:16:54.596
Yes.

00:16:54.616 --> 00:16:55.437
So the, the,

00:16:55.456 --> 00:16:56.878
the way to think about like the outcome

00:16:56.898 --> 00:16:58.919
measure that the thing is when you want

00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.139
your,

00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:01.961
your Ashley athlete or your patient to

00:17:02.001 --> 00:17:03.342
know what it feels like when,

00:17:03.964 --> 00:17:05.744
and you as the operator or the coach

00:17:05.785 --> 00:17:07.365
or the clinician get to decide what that

00:17:07.425 --> 00:17:08.446
when is, or,

00:17:08.567 --> 00:17:12.089
or when I have proper balance,

00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:13.451
when I sit to stand transition,

00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:14.872
when I don't drop my foot,

00:17:15.372 --> 00:17:16.993
when I'm keeping my core engaged,

00:17:17.034 --> 00:17:18.555
when I'm walking, so my hip doesn't drop.

00:17:19.183 --> 00:17:21.665
When I'm doing a lateral lift and I

00:17:21.705 --> 00:17:24.008
don't lift my shoulder up,

00:17:24.028 --> 00:17:26.029
I actually do the exercise properly.

00:17:26.490 --> 00:17:28.392
So it's designed to,

00:17:28.511 --> 00:17:29.794
the outcome measure is, oh,

00:17:29.953 --> 00:17:31.394
my patient feels this,

00:17:31.734 --> 00:17:33.176
gets to feel the thing I want them

00:17:33.217 --> 00:17:33.696
to feel.

00:17:34.258 --> 00:17:36.680
So they get better at whatever the thing

00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:36.880
is.

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.580
And it's just minutes.

00:17:38.642 --> 00:17:40.163
It's really, it's remarkable.

00:17:40.383 --> 00:17:42.724
I say so myself, how when you're,

00:17:42.845 --> 00:17:44.846
when a patient gets it and you get

00:17:44.886 --> 00:17:45.126
that, oh,

00:17:46.209 --> 00:17:48.130
either in sport or whatever,

00:17:48.509 --> 00:17:49.790
that's where the speeds,

00:17:50.391 --> 00:17:52.772
speeds the path to that point and then

00:17:53.252 --> 00:17:55.614
nurtures it so that they don't do wrong.

00:17:55.733 --> 00:17:58.115
I'll say wrong reps, but every rep.

00:17:58.134 --> 00:18:00.056
I remember when I was a PT student

00:18:00.096 --> 00:18:01.876
is watching really great experienced

00:18:01.896 --> 00:18:02.538
clinicians.

00:18:04.093 --> 00:18:07.736
they do less, less talking, less guiding.

00:18:07.796 --> 00:18:09.076
They do so much less.

00:18:09.096 --> 00:18:10.478
I remember sitting there looking and I'm

00:18:10.498 --> 00:18:10.657
like,

00:18:10.999 --> 00:18:12.160
how the hell are you doing more with

00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:13.280
less?

00:18:13.681 --> 00:18:14.362
How do I do that?

00:18:14.382 --> 00:18:15.883
And the answer is cut away everything that

00:18:15.903 --> 00:18:16.702
doesn't need to be there.

00:18:17.364 --> 00:18:20.026
And it's hard to translate a feeling to...

00:18:21.635 --> 00:18:24.198
to words which is why i was i

00:18:24.218 --> 00:18:27.461
was taught why cologne and perfume ads

00:18:27.942 --> 00:18:29.743
look like the weirdest thing ever it looks

00:18:29.784 --> 00:18:31.065
like someone wrote it while they were on

00:18:31.125 --> 00:18:33.907
peyote and the answer is because they're

00:18:33.928 --> 00:18:37.611
trying to share what something smells like

00:18:37.631 --> 00:18:40.594
through tv and that's right impossibly

00:18:40.634 --> 00:18:43.477
difficult so it sounds like you're trying

00:18:43.517 --> 00:18:45.278
to speed that process up

00:18:46.383 --> 00:18:47.804
By more show, less tell.

00:18:48.644 --> 00:18:49.464
More feel, less tell.

00:18:49.545 --> 00:18:49.825
Beautiful.

00:18:49.865 --> 00:18:51.266
More feel, less tell.

00:18:51.306 --> 00:18:54.268
That is maybe the best example I think

00:18:54.608 --> 00:18:58.151
I've heard about how the mechanism works.

00:18:58.270 --> 00:19:01.432
It's like you can't show how something

00:19:01.532 --> 00:19:02.294
smells.

00:19:02.733 --> 00:19:03.295
Correct.

00:19:03.375 --> 00:19:03.815
That is wonderful.

00:19:03.855 --> 00:19:04.654
Can I steal that?

00:19:05.096 --> 00:19:05.596
Hell yeah.

00:19:05.635 --> 00:19:06.257
Steal away.

00:19:06.876 --> 00:19:07.376
Oh my gosh.

00:19:07.416 --> 00:19:08.198
That's amazing.

00:19:08.498 --> 00:19:08.998
That is amazing.

00:19:09.057 --> 00:19:10.219
I thought my selfie was clever,

00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:11.059
but that's even better.

00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:13.571
So who do you get excited?

00:19:13.632 --> 00:19:15.053
Where is Panther Tech?

00:19:15.073 --> 00:19:17.555
Where is the cat now in terms of,

00:19:18.375 --> 00:19:19.376
because it's a startup,

00:19:19.636 --> 00:19:21.377
can someone buy this tomorrow and should

00:19:21.417 --> 00:19:22.519
they be using this tomorrow?

00:19:22.558 --> 00:19:24.520
Where are you in the process?

00:19:24.580 --> 00:19:25.442
They sure can.

00:19:26.303 --> 00:19:29.005
So the three verticals we have are sports,

00:19:29.085 --> 00:19:30.486
which we're embedded already.

00:19:30.526 --> 00:19:31.787
We're in some major league teams,

00:19:31.968 --> 00:19:33.148
a lot of inquiries there,

00:19:34.068 --> 00:19:35.750
everything from youth basketball to

00:19:36.391 --> 00:19:38.492
national basketball camps, to baseball,

00:19:38.553 --> 00:19:39.294
tennis, all the things.

00:19:40.037 --> 00:19:41.057
Workplace safety,

00:19:41.077 --> 00:19:42.458
which is kind of a cousin, I guess,

00:19:42.478 --> 00:19:43.919
to occupational health, right?

00:19:43.939 --> 00:19:45.160
Because that's how you move,

00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.079
not just in the clinic.

00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:48.320
And then the clinical space.

00:19:48.461 --> 00:19:50.422
So I was faculty at CU Anschutz for

00:19:51.061 --> 00:19:52.423
four years in movement disorders.

00:19:53.884 --> 00:19:55.105
And that's where we kind of started

00:19:55.184 --> 00:19:59.166
piloting the technology there in clinical

00:19:59.227 --> 00:19:59.547
space.

00:20:00.027 --> 00:20:01.428
So if you're a rehab person,

00:20:01.508 --> 00:20:02.488
you can buy one now.

00:20:02.708 --> 00:20:04.128
I'm sure the website's on there.

00:20:05.272 --> 00:20:07.653
The beauty of it is that we've done

00:20:07.693 --> 00:20:08.515
some case studies.

00:20:08.934 --> 00:20:09.934
I'll share some partners.

00:20:10.035 --> 00:20:12.936
Quality Living Incorporated is in Omaha,

00:20:12.957 --> 00:20:13.416
Nebraska.

00:20:13.957 --> 00:20:15.738
Carl Sterling up in upstate New York.

00:20:15.778 --> 00:20:18.538
He's opening his neuromotor training

00:20:18.598 --> 00:20:19.240
institutes.

00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:20.559
They use it quite a bit.

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:22.921
Got Hansberger Physio up in Canada.

00:20:22.961 --> 00:20:25.642
They do a lot of athlete stuff and

00:20:25.662 --> 00:20:26.823
half a dozen other institutes.

00:20:27.147 --> 00:20:27.307
you know,

00:20:27.367 --> 00:20:30.049
single single point clinics that are small

00:20:30.069 --> 00:20:32.111
groups clinics that use it.

00:20:32.530 --> 00:20:35.652
So we're always looking for new ways,

00:20:35.811 --> 00:20:39.755
new new use cases to use the cat.

00:20:40.234 --> 00:20:42.756
And so instead of and we are a

00:20:42.796 --> 00:20:43.556
tiny startup.

00:20:44.017 --> 00:20:45.017
So this is not like, oh,

00:20:45.057 --> 00:20:45.738
make an appointment.

00:20:45.897 --> 00:20:47.919
Just just put my email on there.

00:20:47.939 --> 00:20:48.538
Just reach out.

00:20:48.618 --> 00:20:50.519
I'll talk to anybody at any time about

00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:51.319
how to use the cat.

00:20:51.721 --> 00:20:53.260
I'll put it in the show notes.

00:20:53.842 --> 00:20:55.221
But what is the website you want people

00:20:55.242 --> 00:20:56.103
to to go to?

00:20:56.861 --> 00:20:59.222
It's Panther, T-E-C dot net,

00:20:59.363 --> 00:21:00.443
PantherTech dot net.

00:21:01.125 --> 00:21:03.086
The joke is we couldn't afford the H

00:21:03.286 --> 00:21:06.509
at the end of tech.

00:21:06.528 --> 00:21:09.892
Leave off the last H for humble savings.

00:21:10.412 --> 00:21:10.731
Yes.

00:21:10.893 --> 00:21:11.413
Oh, that's good.

00:21:11.432 --> 00:21:11.992
That's good.

00:21:12.054 --> 00:21:13.634
And side nerd note,

00:21:13.694 --> 00:21:15.856
PantherTech actually stands for Principles

00:21:16.096 --> 00:21:17.857
of Athletics and Neuroscience Towards

00:21:17.897 --> 00:21:20.359
Human Expertise Plus Technology.

00:21:21.141 --> 00:21:23.242
And CAT stands for Kinesthetic Awareness

00:21:23.262 --> 00:21:23.563
Training.

00:21:24.163 --> 00:21:25.505
You guys got it all figured out.

00:21:25.704 --> 00:21:26.585
All right.

00:21:26.845 --> 00:21:28.726
What's one thing you want PTs,

00:21:28.746 --> 00:21:29.646
who's our audience,

00:21:29.686 --> 00:21:33.368
to do differently tomorrow after hearing

00:21:33.409 --> 00:21:35.650
this outside of looking into Panther Tech?

00:21:35.670 --> 00:21:36.069
But what else?

00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:37.851
What's one thing you want them to do

00:21:37.891 --> 00:21:38.310
differently?

00:21:38.971 --> 00:21:40.172
Okay.

00:21:40.231 --> 00:21:41.893
I guess the best thing you could do

00:21:44.134 --> 00:21:46.275
is to be aware of when your patient

00:21:46.355 --> 00:21:49.076
isn't getting it and it by the

00:21:49.096 --> 00:21:51.258
rehabilitative movement that you know they

00:21:51.317 --> 00:21:52.758
have to do this way or else it's

00:21:52.778 --> 00:21:53.659
going to be a waste of time.

00:21:54.405 --> 00:21:56.667
If you skip exercises because they're not

00:21:56.708 --> 00:21:58.430
getting it or you run out of time

00:21:59.211 --> 00:22:02.233
or they just don't get that feeling and

00:22:02.253 --> 00:22:03.515
you wish there was a way to,

00:22:03.634 --> 00:22:06.617
I wish I could make this person feel

00:22:06.678 --> 00:22:08.200
this thing.

00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:09.882
If you have that more than once a

00:22:09.922 --> 00:22:10.082
day,

00:22:10.733 --> 00:22:12.115
that's a reason to grab the cat.

00:22:12.255 --> 00:22:13.036
That's a reason to get it.

00:22:13.155 --> 00:22:14.215
Really low price point.

00:22:14.936 --> 00:22:16.238
For the clinical model,

00:22:16.278 --> 00:22:18.679
it's three hundred fifty dollars and you

00:22:18.699 --> 00:22:20.539
get to add up to five coaches with

00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:20.700
it.

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:22.801
Again, not a sales pitch,

00:22:22.862 --> 00:22:26.584
but as movement educators,

00:22:27.565 --> 00:22:29.465
we are trained to keep an eye on

00:22:29.625 --> 00:22:31.426
what is this person doing and feeling and

00:22:31.467 --> 00:22:32.788
how can I make them experience a

00:22:32.807 --> 00:22:33.409
sensation,

00:22:33.868 --> 00:22:35.930
recognize it so that they can replicate it

00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:38.811
and then put it in their normal life.

00:22:39.071 --> 00:22:39.311
Right.

00:22:39.813 --> 00:22:39.952
So

00:22:41.108 --> 00:22:42.530
If you have pain points like that,

00:22:42.711 --> 00:22:43.211
reach out to me.

00:22:43.252 --> 00:22:44.535
I'm happy to help.

00:22:44.595 --> 00:22:44.994
Perfect.

00:22:45.135 --> 00:22:45.836
All right.

00:22:46.017 --> 00:22:47.199
Joe, you're an athlete.

00:22:47.219 --> 00:22:47.779
You're a competitor.

00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:48.681
Are you ready to play a game?

00:22:48.701 --> 00:22:52.067
We call it Know Thyself Body Awareness

00:22:52.207 --> 00:22:53.869
Edition.

00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:55.211
Let's pay the bills real quick.

00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.019
All right.

00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.201
Thanks to our sponsor, Sarah Health,

00:23:02.701 --> 00:23:04.521
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00:23:04.582 --> 00:23:06.462
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00:23:06.502 --> 00:23:08.923
Sarah automates daily patient check-ins

00:23:08.962 --> 00:23:11.463
via text, no app, no logins,

00:23:12.365 --> 00:23:13.825
just better outcomes and revenue.

00:23:13.845 --> 00:23:14.365
Who wouldn't like that?

00:23:14.525 --> 00:23:16.006
RTM compliance made simple.

00:23:16.086 --> 00:23:17.665
SarahHealth.com.

00:23:17.685 --> 00:23:20.946
That's S-A-R-A-Health.com.

00:23:20.967 --> 00:23:22.147
So you got to know thyself.

00:23:22.748 --> 00:23:23.388
for this game.

00:23:25.089 --> 00:23:25.770
What's harder,

00:23:26.290 --> 00:23:29.753
teaching movement to athletes or

00:23:30.233 --> 00:23:32.836
explaining proprioception to clinicians?

00:23:32.957 --> 00:23:33.596
What's harder,

00:23:34.097 --> 00:23:35.858
teaching movement to athletes or

00:23:35.919 --> 00:23:41.384
explaining proprioception to clinicians?

00:23:41.423 --> 00:23:42.625
Can I say it's a tie?

00:23:43.005 --> 00:23:43.306
Yes.

00:23:43.959 --> 00:23:44.199
Okay,

00:23:44.298 --> 00:23:46.580
it's a tie because the athletes are

00:23:46.661 --> 00:23:49.163
intrinsically motivated to move to do the

00:23:49.183 --> 00:23:49.423
thing.

00:23:49.443 --> 00:23:50.203
That's what they're doing.

00:23:50.625 --> 00:23:52.445
And clinicians are maybe motivated to get

00:23:52.486 --> 00:23:55.628
another person to do something else.

00:23:55.648 --> 00:23:56.549
That's my first.

00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:58.892
When's the last time, Joe,

00:23:58.991 --> 00:24:03.675
you physically surprised yourself?

00:24:03.715 --> 00:24:04.537
Oh, I like that.

00:24:07.098 --> 00:24:07.519
Let's see.

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:08.881
Oh, jeez.

00:24:13.979 --> 00:24:14.118
Well,

00:24:14.138 --> 00:24:15.999
I was using a chainsaw two weeks ago

00:24:16.118 --> 00:24:18.480
to cut up a tree that we had

00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:19.881
a big windstorm here in Evergreen,

00:24:19.921 --> 00:24:20.461
Colorado.

00:24:21.221 --> 00:24:22.241
Big old thing fell.

00:24:22.261 --> 00:24:23.842
And don't tell my wife,

00:24:24.102 --> 00:24:25.603
but it was on and I accidentally caught

00:24:25.623 --> 00:24:27.063
my pants and it didn't hurt me or

00:24:27.083 --> 00:24:27.363
anything.

00:24:27.383 --> 00:24:27.863
But I was like, oh,

00:24:27.883 --> 00:24:28.683
that could have been bad.

00:24:29.983 --> 00:24:32.525
That reminded me about getting older and

00:24:32.545 --> 00:24:35.625
having to maintain mastery of my sensory

00:24:35.665 --> 00:24:36.365
motor space.

00:24:36.425 --> 00:24:37.606
Yeah.

00:24:37.646 --> 00:24:40.748
You coined a phrase that is...

00:24:41.488 --> 00:24:42.807
kinesthetic dissonance,

00:24:43.749 --> 00:24:45.348
I coined a phrase in PT school where

00:24:45.388 --> 00:24:46.849
I learned what proprioception was.

00:24:46.910 --> 00:24:48.230
I want to hear your thoughts about the

00:24:48.269 --> 00:24:49.171
phrase that I coined,

00:24:49.590 --> 00:24:51.912
which is social proprioception.

00:24:52.612 --> 00:24:55.992
The idea there is some people don't know

00:24:56.413 --> 00:24:58.153
how to present themselves socially.

00:24:58.233 --> 00:25:00.775
They lack social proprioception.

00:25:00.835 --> 00:25:01.994
Maybe they're a close talker.

00:25:02.295 --> 00:25:03.296
Maybe they talk too much.

00:25:03.316 --> 00:25:04.215
Maybe they don't know how to read the

00:25:04.256 --> 00:25:04.615
room.

00:25:04.996 --> 00:25:06.156
Social proprioception.

00:25:06.237 --> 00:25:07.336
Thoughts on my phrase?

00:25:08.584 --> 00:25:10.465
Fantastic question.

00:25:10.625 --> 00:25:12.768
I would say it's a cousin.

00:25:13.308 --> 00:25:16.873
Proprioception is an internal focus of

00:25:16.952 --> 00:25:18.493
knowledge of where you are in space and

00:25:18.574 --> 00:25:18.894
time.

00:25:20.473 --> 00:25:22.035
And how you interact with the environment.

00:25:22.536 --> 00:25:28.141
I would say social proprioception is more

00:25:28.161 --> 00:25:31.084
of reading external information,

00:25:31.144 --> 00:25:32.865
not necessarily sensory input.

00:25:33.445 --> 00:25:35.669
But that is a great phrase,

00:25:35.848 --> 00:25:37.250
social proprioception.

00:25:37.309 --> 00:25:39.152
We have a book in my family.

00:25:39.172 --> 00:25:39.732
It's like, really?

00:25:39.752 --> 00:25:39.833
Yeah.

00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:42.471
I give people the heads up.

00:25:42.491 --> 00:25:43.932
It's why I do it where I still

00:25:43.992 --> 00:25:45.433
sound at least like a clinician.

00:25:46.095 --> 00:25:47.194
They'll say, what's that person like?

00:25:47.234 --> 00:25:47.335
Well,

00:25:47.355 --> 00:25:48.655
they're a little lacking in social

00:25:48.756 --> 00:25:50.317
proprioception, but we'll get there.

00:25:50.356 --> 00:25:51.637
We'll give them a little more feedback.

00:25:51.978 --> 00:25:52.878
Last question.

00:25:53.618 --> 00:25:55.701
If proprioception had a mascot...

00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.799
What would the mascot be?

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:00.840
It would be a black panther.

00:26:00.881 --> 00:26:01.520
Are you kidding me?

00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:02.320
Okay, got it.

00:26:02.421 --> 00:26:02.721
Why?

00:26:03.201 --> 00:26:03.961
Here's a panther.

00:26:03.981 --> 00:26:04.701
I don't know if you can see.

00:26:04.721 --> 00:26:05.902
There it is on the tattoo on the

00:26:05.981 --> 00:26:06.142
ink.

00:26:06.182 --> 00:26:07.442
Why the black panther?

00:26:07.461 --> 00:26:08.221
Where did that come from?

00:26:08.642 --> 00:26:10.343
Because have you ever seen how a panther

00:26:10.383 --> 00:26:10.843
moves?

00:26:11.843 --> 00:26:13.042
It always knows where it's got to be,

00:26:13.123 --> 00:26:13.303
yeah.

00:26:13.323 --> 00:26:14.124
Oh, man.

00:26:14.203 --> 00:26:17.743
And just the evolution that took from two

00:26:17.784 --> 00:26:20.065
cells to turn into, and that's panther,

00:26:20.105 --> 00:26:20.664
obviously.

00:26:20.765 --> 00:26:21.684
I wanted to be a panther when I

00:26:21.704 --> 00:26:22.244
was a little kid.

00:26:23.385 --> 00:26:24.746
But, yeah, so if it had a mascot,

00:26:24.786 --> 00:26:25.145
it would be,

00:26:26.012 --> 00:26:28.794
intentional no wasted movement one hundred

00:26:28.834 --> 00:26:31.096
percent awareness and mastering control

00:26:31.915 --> 00:26:34.396
all the time love it all right last

00:26:34.416 --> 00:26:35.897
thing we do on each episode joe is

00:26:35.958 --> 00:26:43.761
called the parting shot uh-oh this is the

00:26:43.821 --> 00:26:47.442
parting shot one last mic drop moment no

00:26:47.502 --> 00:26:50.605
pressure just your legacy on the line

00:26:51.973 --> 00:26:52.513
No pressure.

00:26:52.554 --> 00:26:54.414
Can't be as pressure filled as you were,

00:26:54.515 --> 00:26:54.775
you know,

00:26:54.795 --> 00:26:55.915
when you were top ten in the world

00:26:55.955 --> 00:26:56.355
of ragged ball.

00:26:56.695 --> 00:26:57.236
Just whatever,

00:26:57.296 --> 00:26:58.596
what's the last thing you'd want to leave

00:26:58.616 --> 00:26:59.196
with the audience?

00:26:59.217 --> 00:27:00.278
Your mic drop moment,

00:27:00.298 --> 00:27:01.278
your soapbox statement.

00:27:01.298 --> 00:27:03.259
What's your parting shot, Joe?

00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:05.319
Motor,

00:27:05.921 --> 00:27:07.961
moving around the world is universal and

00:27:08.021 --> 00:27:08.622
ubiquitous.

00:27:08.721 --> 00:27:10.722
There's no point in your life where you

00:27:10.762 --> 00:27:14.324
stop learning how to do new things or

00:27:14.364 --> 00:27:15.944
move your body in the world for a

00:27:16.025 --> 00:27:17.165
fill in the blank task.

00:27:17.385 --> 00:27:19.606
Everybody does it from the time that they

00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.221
learn their own fingers when they're a

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.682
tiny little baby to the time that they

00:27:24.721 --> 00:27:26.343
learn how to navigate with now a body

00:27:26.363 --> 00:27:28.044
that's not as strong and flexible and

00:27:28.163 --> 00:27:30.105
malleable as it used to.

00:27:30.465 --> 00:27:32.426
So it's a lifelong adventure.

00:27:32.586 --> 00:27:33.166
And I'm not like,

00:27:33.186 --> 00:27:34.788
you gotta be fit for every day of

00:27:34.827 --> 00:27:35.228
your life.

00:27:35.268 --> 00:27:37.348
It's just being, paying attention,

00:27:37.808 --> 00:27:39.230
controlling your own body,

00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:40.411
mastering space and time.

00:27:40.750 --> 00:27:43.732
That's my parting shot.

00:27:43.992 --> 00:27:44.393
Boom.

00:27:45.167 --> 00:27:45.448
Joe,

00:27:45.708 --> 00:27:46.828
way to drop the mic on your way

00:27:46.868 --> 00:27:47.309
out the room.

00:27:48.151 --> 00:27:50.011
We've got the link in the show notes.

00:27:50.051 --> 00:27:50.813
Give that a click.

00:27:50.853 --> 00:27:52.193
Have a conversation with Joe.

00:27:52.534 --> 00:27:53.515
I really wish you were a little more

00:27:53.575 --> 00:27:54.015
extroverted.

00:27:54.055 --> 00:27:55.195
If you had a little more personality,

00:27:55.215 --> 00:27:55.636
it'd be better.

00:27:55.656 --> 00:27:56.176
You know what I'm saying?

00:27:56.877 --> 00:27:57.858
Talk to Joe about this.

00:27:57.878 --> 00:27:58.358
You could tell.

00:27:58.618 --> 00:27:59.400
She's not shy.

00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:00.221
She loves it.

00:28:00.381 --> 00:28:01.862
She knows it deeply in every direction.

00:28:02.122 --> 00:28:02.261
Joe,

00:28:02.301 --> 00:28:05.285
thanks for doing this and focusing on this

00:28:05.305 --> 00:28:06.685
for athletes and people of all kinds.

00:28:07.096 --> 00:28:09.097
Jimmy, I am so grateful, so grateful.

00:28:09.137 --> 00:28:10.098
I'm going to look up each and every

00:28:10.138 --> 00:28:12.582
one of your sponsors and give them a

00:28:12.701 --> 00:28:13.061
look, too,

00:28:13.122 --> 00:28:14.564
because I really appreciate what you're

00:28:14.584 --> 00:28:14.703
doing.

00:28:15.084 --> 00:28:17.487
Education is huge.

00:28:17.527 --> 00:28:18.867
And with all the crap out there,

00:28:18.948 --> 00:28:21.671
it's refreshing to be on here.

00:28:21.711 --> 00:28:22.592
Thank you for having me.

00:28:22.972 --> 00:28:23.613
Joe, appreciate it.

00:28:23.633 --> 00:28:24.134
Thanks for the time.

00:28:26.075 --> 00:28:27.154
That's it for this one,

00:28:27.414 --> 00:28:29.076
but we're just getting warmed up.

00:28:29.556 --> 00:28:31.455
Smash follow, send it to a friend,

00:28:31.675 --> 00:28:33.336
or crank up the next episode.

00:28:33.856 --> 00:28:34.757
Want to go deeper?

00:28:35.017 --> 00:28:37.336
Hit us at pgpinecast.com.

00:28:38.617 --> 00:28:40.817
Or find us on YouTube and socials at

00:28:40.837 --> 00:28:41.857
pgpinecast.

00:28:42.278 --> 00:28:44.558
And legally, none of this was advice.

00:28:44.618 --> 00:28:46.459
It's for entertainment purposes only.

00:28:47.038 --> 00:28:47.999
Bullshit!

00:28:48.038 --> 00:28:48.638
See, Keith?

00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:49.900
We read the script.

00:28:50.180 --> 00:28:50.859
Happy now?