Why PTs Burn Out: A Raw Look at Rewards, Pressure & the Profession

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You're listening to the PT Pinecast,

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where smart people in healthcare come to

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make noise.

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Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

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Rebecca Griffith, Jimmy McKay,

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Rebecca Griffith, the EDDPT, Jimmy McKay,

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just Jimmy McKay.

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I'm coming to you from a place that

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I think has more snow than where you're

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coming to me from,

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and that should be switched because you're

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in Colorado.

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It did snow last night.

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But I think it snowed here last night,

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and I'm in New York,

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where it should have some snow here,

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but it should be a lot more snow.

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Are you feeling that?

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I heard the industry is not doing well.

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It's not.

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We've got about an inch and a half

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of snow out there.

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We probably have less than six inches all

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season down here.

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You guys would get six inches an hour

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or more.

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Yeah, and in the mountains,

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when we went up to the mountains for

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New Year's and there was no snow,

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like none.

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Wow.

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If almost climate change,

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if climate change was a thing.

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So I wrote an article.

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I'm going to pause for dramatic effect

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because I rarely do that.

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Articles are way too long.

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I get excited when I read an article.

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But this was good.

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I saw this guy, Rob Panarello.

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And Rob's been a PT for like,

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four years.

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He's done a lot of different things.

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Business, clinical,

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he's worked professional sports,

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the whole nine.

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And he had like this series of...

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posts for people interacting.

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And I don't want to try to sum

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up his posts.

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I don't want to put words in his

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mouth, but he's essentially saying like,

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you got to work hard if you want

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to get stuff.

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I agree.

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I'm being very careful with my words,

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which is unique with me.

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Let me summarize my big point.

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I don't think it's a work ethic problem.

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I think this is, in Jimmy McKay words,

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this is a juice versus squeeze problem.

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I think it's a conversion problem where,

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again, try to be careful,

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where I think the people who are

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established in PT business or clinical,

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what might say, and I am using hyperbole,

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I think,

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I'm not even sure what the word hyperbole

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means.

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I'm being a cartoon where I might say

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they would do this motion, a finger wag.

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These kids today don't know how to work.

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They don't work hard enough.

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They want this,

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but they're willing to put in this.

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And I think the percentage of people who

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are lazy and want a lot but won't

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do a lot is the same as it

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was forty years ago.

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I think the percentage is the same.

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That's how bell curves work.

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I think the problem is

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for our profession and others,

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is that once smart people get into our

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profession,

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they see that the juice isn't worth the

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squeeze and they get pissed about it.

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And I agree with them.

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So I don't think it's a work ethic

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problem.

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I think there are the same amount of

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lazy people and hardworking people now,

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but there were four years ago as there

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were four hundred years ago.

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I think people are coming in going,

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so hold on a second.

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Forty years ago, it was...

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graduate, work hard, gain skills,

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work hard, take on extra assignments,

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be plucky, be hardworking,

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go the extra mile.

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And then there was a higher...

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You could look around and see people who

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did the thing and they got something out

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of it.

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as in you might be on rung number

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one of your career and you're like,

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don't look at Rob who's forty years in.

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That's not fair.

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How did he get there?

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And saying the same way Rob or anybody

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got there is the same way it works

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today.

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I'm not saying,

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please don't put words in my mouth,

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hard work isn't a differentiating factor.

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I agree.

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I'm saying

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the smart people leaving our profession

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are the canary in the coal mine.

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They are the indicator because I do not

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think the same unit of hard work

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gets the same unit of reward today that

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it did forty years ago.

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I also think my citations are this is

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where you see independent providers just

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being like,

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then I'll just be my own thing.

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And for every minute of work and hard

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work, it's for me.

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I will get or not get or not

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get reward.

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So I think that's where people will be

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like,

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these kids come into these clinics and

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they want one hundred thousand dollars.

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And I would push back and say,

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Well, when you graduated,

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what did it cost?

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And I'm not just talking about money,

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but I will say,

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what did it cost money-wise and

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effort-wise and time-wise?

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And you have to factor all these things

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in because if you say the juice and

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the squeeze are different,

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I need to understand what the squeeze is.

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The squeeze is not buying a house for

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fifteen years.

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I don't know.

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That feels very squeezy.

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Or what did I pay versus what did

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someone else pay?

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That's real squeezy.

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And if the squeeze is bigger and the

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juice is smaller,

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smart people do that math and they piss

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off.

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That's what I'm saying.

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I don't think this is a,

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the next generation is lazy and they need

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to get their shit together.

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And the ones that do will survive.

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I'm saying the smart ones do the math

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and they go,

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I'm just going to do it differently.

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And then they do.

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So I don't think I'll end.

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And you don't have to agree with me

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because we're on a live stream.

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I mean, we're friends,

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not on a live stream.

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But I'll end with how I started.

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This isn't a work ethic problem.

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This is a conversion problem.

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And if the profession doesn't solve it,

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this will keep going in this direction.

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I wrote an article.

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It's on LinkedIn.

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Well,

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I'm proud of you for writing an article.

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That means you worked really hard at that.

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It took me... And I didn't...

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I didn't expect to.

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I woke up and saw the things that

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Rob had laid out,

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and a lot of them he is right

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about.

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Well, I have to tell you,

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I am a tryhard, for sure,

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and I've been called a tryhard.

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Me too.

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Um,

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I work very hard and I always have.

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And discretionary effort for some,

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some period of time was definitely

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rewarded,

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but whether that's academically or like,

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you know,

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even my first job was at McDonald's and

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I gave a lot of discretionary effort and

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I was promoted and I was a shift

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manager when I was, you know,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a, I was a,

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I was a,

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um but i have found the system that

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we're in whether you're in acute care

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whether you're an outpatient whatever the

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case may be it's not really set up

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to reward discretionary effort like

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healthcare in general is is not um so

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i can like hustle hustle hustle hustle and

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be at the top of any clinical ladder

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right but if you're if you're

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compensation differential between like

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meeting expectations and exceeding

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expectations for example even my husband

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has this in his corporate job like if

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that differential is like a half a percent

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Is the juice worth the squeeze there?

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Probably not.

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So what are you doing to actually reward

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that discretionary effort?

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So I kind of tend to agree with

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you.

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I think people do want to work hard.

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I think they want to feel like their

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work meant something.

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And I think they want their work to

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be appreciated.

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The other thing that I've run into is

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we expect nothing less.

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like that, this, that,

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that like above and beyond is now the

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baseline.

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We expect nothing less of our staff.

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We expect nothing less.

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And it's like, well,

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then you need to compensate them for that.

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Like if that's the baseline, where's,

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where's the compensation there.

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And then I hear other people say, well,

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some people just want to clock in and

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do their job and go home.

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Like that's a bad thing.

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Um,

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I don't know.

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Do we say that about people who like

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work at the gas station at the at

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the like checking you out?

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Oh, my gosh.

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Can you believe this guy just clocks in,

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does his job and clocks out?

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Like how lazy is he?

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Like, why do we do that?

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So I think we need to have a

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shift in the narrative about like.

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What is working hard in this profession

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mean?

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Even if you're clocking in,

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you're seeing patients all day,

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you're giving them the best of yourself

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and then you're clocking out.

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You've given them time, expertise,

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emotional energy,

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and hopefully an outstanding plan of care.

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That's that should really be enough.

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And I also think I haven't seen this

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culture of you shouldn't take your time

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off.

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And I'll hear people bragging about not

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taking any PTO.

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And I'm like, why?

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And they're like, well,

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we work hard around here.

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And I'm like, well,

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but you're entitled to take a break, too.

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So when I hear people say I can't

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hire anybody because they don't want to

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work eight to five, five days a week,

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they want an alternate work arrangement.

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Or I'm also like child care is so

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impossible now.

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like even i'm i have three kids and

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the child care situation when i when i

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have my first kid in the child care

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situation now like it's insane so if you

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take kids to school you have to drop

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them off at eight eight twenty in the

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morning and then they need to be picked

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up at three thirty in the afternoon how

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are you supposed to work eight to five

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like that then you have to pay extra

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on top of that but if your hourly

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rate doesn't even match what you're paying

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for that child care like it doesn't mean

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you don't want to work hard it means

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you need to be able to feed your

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children you know so i wrote this

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I wrote this in the article.

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Professions don't lose talent when people

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stop caring.

00:09:35.923 --> 00:09:37.864
They lose talent when effort and reward

00:09:37.964 --> 00:09:39.024
drift too far apart.

00:09:39.044 --> 00:09:40.725
That's what you started saying.

00:09:40.924 --> 00:09:41.945
Yeah.

00:09:41.985 --> 00:09:43.645
This is fine in finance.

00:09:44.306 --> 00:09:45.245
Yeah.

00:09:45.326 --> 00:09:47.125
If I show up and I'm a stockbroker,

00:09:47.245 --> 00:09:48.687
and I know very little about stockbroking.

00:09:50.067 --> 00:09:50.726
I have no idea.

00:09:50.826 --> 00:09:53.567
But if I do more and I get

00:09:53.687 --> 00:09:54.008
less...

00:09:55.114 --> 00:09:56.575
you know that stockbroker is going to

00:09:56.615 --> 00:09:57.014
leave.

00:09:57.054 --> 00:09:59.297
But it's weird in a profession because

00:09:59.336 --> 00:09:59.957
we're all heart.

00:09:59.998 --> 00:10:00.977
We have the Peace Corps gene.

00:10:01.438 --> 00:10:03.000
That's looked at as weakness.

00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:08.461
I'm not saying that owners should pull

00:10:08.522 --> 00:10:10.023
money that doesn't exist.

00:10:10.982 --> 00:10:12.823
What I'm saying is, and I feel like,

00:10:13.904 --> 00:10:15.625
I know you didn't love Chris Voss's book,

00:10:16.145 --> 00:10:17.466
right?

00:10:18.667 --> 00:10:19.967
Yeah, Chris Voss would be like,

00:10:20.368 --> 00:10:21.609
I think how he would look at the

00:10:21.629 --> 00:10:22.509
situation and say,

00:10:22.828 --> 00:10:25.070
you have one side of the table talking

00:10:25.191 --> 00:10:27.772
in logic and the other talking in emotion.

00:10:28.251 --> 00:10:29.393
Neither is wrong,

00:10:29.592 --> 00:10:31.955
except I didn't say this generation needs

00:10:31.995 --> 00:10:32.735
to work harder.

00:10:33.096 --> 00:10:34.957
I didn't say owners need to pay more.

00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:40.383
What I'm saying is the conversion factor

00:10:41.403 --> 00:10:42.083
isn't there.

00:10:43.365 --> 00:10:43.566
Well,

00:10:44.066 --> 00:10:45.506
and I'll go to the other side of

00:10:45.527 --> 00:10:46.528
the aisle here too.

00:10:46.587 --> 00:10:51.211
The generation that's saying people don't

00:10:51.251 --> 00:10:52.052
want to work hard,

00:10:52.293 --> 00:10:53.394
we were raised on hard work.

00:10:54.693 --> 00:10:54.913
if you,

00:10:55.335 --> 00:10:56.456
you and I have talked about that before,

00:10:56.576 --> 00:10:57.538
if you have time to lean,

00:10:57.557 --> 00:10:58.278
you have time to clean,

00:10:58.298 --> 00:11:00.061
like don't sit down, like rest is like,

00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:01.341
if you get caught resting,

00:11:01.402 --> 00:11:02.364
it was a bad thing.

00:11:02.803 --> 00:11:02.923
Right.

00:11:02.943 --> 00:11:03.043
Right.

00:11:03.063 --> 00:11:03.205
Right.

00:11:03.225 --> 00:11:04.566
But look at your example.

00:11:04.706 --> 00:11:04.907
Yeah.

00:11:05.495 --> 00:11:08.716
You saw and it played out when I

00:11:08.777 --> 00:11:09.136
hustle,

00:11:09.157 --> 00:11:11.558
when I out hustle my age match peers

00:11:11.678 --> 00:11:12.799
and people older than me,

00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:14.701
there was a reward for that.

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.322
And it wasn't like she did three percent

00:11:17.383 --> 00:11:18.082
better today.

00:11:18.202 --> 00:11:19.683
I will give her three extra nickels.

00:11:19.903 --> 00:11:20.825
This was over time.

00:11:21.125 --> 00:11:22.566
And you were OK with that arrangement.

00:11:22.885 --> 00:11:24.586
And had you kept putting that effort in

00:11:24.788 --> 00:11:26.408
over two to three or four years and

00:11:26.448 --> 00:11:27.129
saw nothing.

00:11:28.470 --> 00:11:29.390
You had two options.

00:11:29.591 --> 00:11:29.831
Quit.

00:11:31.225 --> 00:11:31.745
Dial it back.

00:11:31.765 --> 00:11:31.846
Yep.

00:11:31.866 --> 00:11:34.629
And that makes complete sense when Rebecca

00:11:34.649 --> 00:11:35.809
said that working at McDonald's,

00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:36.830
but it doesn't in healthcare.

00:11:37.291 --> 00:11:38.572
I don't understand why,

00:11:39.572 --> 00:11:42.094
but these are deep-seated emotional feels.

00:11:42.955 --> 00:11:44.436
But I also think there's this perception

00:11:44.456 --> 00:11:46.238
that if other people aren't working as

00:11:46.317 --> 00:11:47.118
hard as I am,

00:11:47.558 --> 00:11:49.159
that they're doing it wrong or they're not

00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:50.461
as good as I am or whatever.

00:11:51.160 --> 00:11:53.023
And I also know that our practice owners

00:11:53.082 --> 00:11:54.703
out there are struggling and they are

00:11:54.783 --> 00:11:55.325
hustling.

00:11:56.201 --> 00:11:57.062
And I think for them,

00:11:57.121 --> 00:11:59.745
for some of their clinicians,

00:11:59.764 --> 00:12:01.145
they're like, why aren't you hustling?

00:12:01.225 --> 00:12:01.927
I'm hustling.

00:12:01.966 --> 00:12:02.927
Why aren't you hustling?

00:12:03.427 --> 00:12:04.349
First of all,

00:12:04.489 --> 00:12:08.332
an employee should never be expected to

00:12:08.373 --> 00:12:10.495
work as hard or harder than the owner.

00:12:10.514 --> 00:12:13.457
I agree as somebody who teaches classes.

00:12:13.518 --> 00:12:14.999
Sometimes the people who teach with me

00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:16.280
make way more money than I do.

00:12:17.028 --> 00:12:17.888
Right.

00:12:17.908 --> 00:12:18.989
That's a Gary V line.

00:12:19.328 --> 00:12:20.349
He's like, he had like,

00:12:20.369 --> 00:12:21.610
he does like with these Q and A's

00:12:21.649 --> 00:12:23.269
at one of these like symposiums.

00:12:23.610 --> 00:12:24.289
And the guy was like,

00:12:24.610 --> 00:12:26.191
I can't find anybody who works harder than

00:12:26.211 --> 00:12:26.311
me.

00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:27.370
And he goes, why would they?

00:12:27.532 --> 00:12:28.831
You get more reward.

00:12:29.611 --> 00:12:30.613
You own the joint.

00:12:30.913 --> 00:12:32.432
Now that's not saying I need somebody who

00:12:32.493 --> 00:12:33.374
busts their ass.

00:12:34.033 --> 00:12:34.994
That's not what the guy said.

00:12:35.033 --> 00:12:37.095
The guy literally, he showed his cards.

00:12:38.154 --> 00:12:41.235
He was like, nobody works harder than me.

00:12:41.275 --> 00:12:41.895
No shit.

00:12:42.917 --> 00:12:43.476
No shit.

00:12:44.994 --> 00:12:48.758
But I also think there is this other

00:12:48.999 --> 00:12:50.860
factor where people are waiting for

00:12:50.921 --> 00:12:53.082
opportunity to come to them and they're

00:12:53.123 --> 00:12:55.004
just waiting.

00:12:55.065 --> 00:12:56.187
And that's different.

00:12:56.690 --> 00:12:56.809
Right.

00:12:56.830 --> 00:12:57.510
The funny part was,

00:12:57.571 --> 00:12:59.091
I think I agreed with eight out of

00:12:59.131 --> 00:13:00.533
ten things Rob was saying.

00:13:00.653 --> 00:13:02.033
I think most of me, I mean,

00:13:02.053 --> 00:13:02.875
I'll math that on me.

00:13:03.195 --> 00:13:04.216
And Rob said he would come on.

00:13:04.255 --> 00:13:04.495
I was like,

00:13:04.515 --> 00:13:05.636
I'll give you a question list.

00:13:06.118 --> 00:13:06.658
Yeah, I'm not looking.

00:13:06.677 --> 00:13:07.958
This isn't a dunk on Rob.

00:13:08.239 --> 00:13:09.640
No, no, no, no.

00:13:09.660 --> 00:13:11.601
I think it's a great conversation to have.

00:13:11.621 --> 00:13:13.263
Do you ever see the meme where it's

00:13:13.283 --> 00:13:14.825
like two dogs barking at each other

00:13:14.845 --> 00:13:15.885
through a chain link fence?

00:13:16.306 --> 00:13:19.227
And then slowly the owner slides the chain

00:13:19.268 --> 00:13:20.288
link fence out of the way and the

00:13:20.308 --> 00:13:21.610
dogs are just they just sort of stop

00:13:21.649 --> 00:13:22.451
barking and sort of like.

00:13:23.609 --> 00:13:24.308
They're fine with each other.

00:13:24.750 --> 00:13:26.850
That's what I feel like the two sides

00:13:26.890 --> 00:13:27.751
of the argument are.

00:13:28.211 --> 00:13:29.393
I think one side of them is like,

00:13:29.413 --> 00:13:30.734
these kids, they don't work hard.

00:13:30.774 --> 00:13:31.514
And the other side is like,

00:13:31.815 --> 00:13:33.096
we don't have problem working hard,

00:13:33.556 --> 00:13:35.037
but this equation sucks.

00:13:35.616 --> 00:13:39.059
I think more people,

00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:40.721
I think you're closer than you are

00:13:40.801 --> 00:13:42.542
further.

00:13:42.581 --> 00:13:43.442
Well, and it's, I mean,

00:13:43.462 --> 00:13:44.624
it's just like one of my kids is

00:13:44.644 --> 00:13:45.384
a runner, right?

00:13:45.464 --> 00:13:47.105
And like the harder he works,

00:13:47.745 --> 00:13:48.927
the faster he gets.

00:13:49.628 --> 00:13:50.827
And the faster he gets,

00:13:50.847 --> 00:13:52.188
the more races he wins.

00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:54.109
Like, so there's, for him,

00:13:54.369 --> 00:13:56.070
there's like a direct correlation to the

00:13:56.110 --> 00:13:58.230
amount of grind that comes to the amount

00:13:58.250 --> 00:13:58.931
of success.

00:13:59.311 --> 00:14:01.270
And I think that's the breakdown is that

00:14:01.291 --> 00:14:02.751
we're grinding.

00:14:02.772 --> 00:14:04.451
What would happen in a running,

00:14:04.572 --> 00:14:07.232
he works harder and doesn't win.

00:14:08.552 --> 00:14:10.453
Let's say his body is built for sprints,

00:14:10.494 --> 00:14:13.374
but your kid's a cross country runner.

00:14:13.835 --> 00:14:15.075
Or he can pivot.

00:14:15.691 --> 00:14:16.272
Correct.

00:14:17.153 --> 00:14:18.955
I played sports in high school.

00:14:19.436 --> 00:14:22.499
I played fast Twitch sports and I did.

00:14:23.921 --> 00:14:24.422
All right.

00:14:24.562 --> 00:14:26.124
Like I was B minus athlete.

00:14:26.784 --> 00:14:27.905
And then I graduated from college.

00:14:27.946 --> 00:14:28.447
Well, first of all,

00:14:28.547 --> 00:14:30.269
I hit puberty real late in high school

00:14:30.288 --> 00:14:30.448
and

00:14:31.270 --> 00:14:32.630
probably even in college.

00:14:33.292 --> 00:14:34.312
When I graduated,

00:14:34.511 --> 00:14:35.951
I started distance running and I was like,

00:14:36.211 --> 00:14:38.472
oh, for every unit of effort,

00:14:38.712 --> 00:14:40.793
I got like four units of reward.

00:14:41.533 --> 00:14:43.214
I was never going to play pro baseball.

00:14:44.634 --> 00:14:46.836
I could have outworked you and not got...

00:14:47.235 --> 00:14:48.115
I was five nine.

00:14:48.135 --> 00:14:49.436
I was not going to be a power

00:14:49.456 --> 00:14:50.176
hitting first baseman.

00:14:50.456 --> 00:14:51.736
Wasn't going to happen.

00:14:52.236 --> 00:14:53.817
I could have screamed and been pissed

00:14:53.857 --> 00:14:54.158
about it.

00:14:54.197 --> 00:14:54.957
I just said, pivot.

00:14:55.865 --> 00:14:57.645
Where does my, maybe that's a better way.

00:14:57.745 --> 00:15:00.586
Where does my one unit of effort compound

00:15:00.807 --> 00:15:01.346
over time?

00:15:01.506 --> 00:15:01.746
Again,

00:15:01.807 --> 00:15:03.427
I'm not saying you show up and one

00:15:03.488 --> 00:15:04.948
unit of effort gets one unit of reward.

00:15:05.349 --> 00:15:07.250
I ate shit and worked for free for

00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:08.389
years in radio.

00:15:08.610 --> 00:15:10.591
My first salary was fifteen thousand five

00:15:10.630 --> 00:15:11.270
hundred dollars.

00:15:12.351 --> 00:15:14.072
All year working six days a week.

00:15:14.432 --> 00:15:17.813
I was OK with it until I got

00:15:17.854 --> 00:15:20.534
promoted three times in six months with no

00:15:20.815 --> 00:15:24.697
with no monetary raise, just more work.

00:15:25.938 --> 00:15:26.359
and more.

00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:27.679
Actually, I took a pay cut.

00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:28.400
Here's why.

00:15:28.841 --> 00:15:30.101
I was making my salary.

00:15:30.863 --> 00:15:31.563
Happy to do it.

00:15:31.644 --> 00:15:32.224
When do you need me?

00:15:32.303 --> 00:15:33.605
Nights, overnights, weekends.

00:15:33.784 --> 00:15:34.806
I'm Jimmy the Hustler, baby.

00:15:34.865 --> 00:15:35.726
No one's going to out hustle me.

00:15:36.187 --> 00:15:38.229
I got promoted to be on the air

00:15:39.490 --> 00:15:40.791
days, ten to three.

00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:41.731
Oh, man.

00:15:41.792 --> 00:15:43.072
I'm between the morning and the afternoon

00:15:43.092 --> 00:15:43.413
shifts.

00:15:43.932 --> 00:15:44.274
Awesome.

00:15:44.594 --> 00:15:45.914
My work is paying off.

00:15:47.355 --> 00:15:50.599
In Rob's model, I'm proving Rob's point.

00:15:52.239 --> 00:15:54.600
Until I got there and there was no

00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:55.440
monetary raise,

00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:56.720
I was still okay with it because I'm

00:15:56.740 --> 00:15:57.919
like, it'll come eventually.

00:15:59.020 --> 00:16:00.260
And then after a year,

00:16:00.880 --> 00:16:03.741
I actually lost money because I was a

00:16:03.981 --> 00:16:06.042
high school substitute teacher during the

00:16:06.121 --> 00:16:08.423
day when I was working at night.

00:16:09.763 --> 00:16:11.764
Now I got put during days and I

00:16:11.803 --> 00:16:13.004
lost eighty bucks a day.

00:16:13.344 --> 00:16:15.804
And I was like, this math feels shitty.

00:16:16.871 --> 00:16:19.215
I just did more and got less.

00:16:19.514 --> 00:16:20.076
But hey, Jimmy,

00:16:20.115 --> 00:16:23.078
don't be short-sighted long-term.

00:16:23.379 --> 00:16:25.500
I didn't see anybody around me at the

00:16:25.861 --> 00:16:27.503
organization I was working for or in my

00:16:27.543 --> 00:16:29.846
profession that the juice was worth the

00:16:29.865 --> 00:16:30.225
squeeze.

00:16:30.667 --> 00:16:31.326
So I left.

00:16:31.748 --> 00:16:33.889
On the way out the door, ironically,

00:16:34.009 --> 00:16:35.432
I had a boss who was sort of

00:16:35.471 --> 00:16:36.472
a dick.

00:16:38.481 --> 00:16:40.984
So I just said, I tried to negotiate.

00:16:41.004 --> 00:16:41.784
I was like, hi,

00:16:42.205 --> 00:16:43.666
I've been promoted three times.

00:16:43.765 --> 00:16:45.148
I did everything they told me to do.

00:16:45.427 --> 00:16:46.769
Put it in writing, be respectful.

00:16:47.068 --> 00:16:47.328
Hi,

00:16:47.909 --> 00:16:49.711
I feel like I'm doing what you're asking

00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:50.251
me to do.

00:16:50.971 --> 00:16:52.793
Effort above and beyond.

00:16:53.634 --> 00:16:55.816
I've been promoted three times in six

00:16:55.875 --> 00:16:56.817
months or eight months,

00:16:57.758 --> 00:16:58.899
but I'm losing money.

00:17:00.854 --> 00:17:02.875
So can we talk about this?

00:17:03.015 --> 00:17:04.837
And do you know what the general manager,

00:17:04.877 --> 00:17:06.220
not my boss, but the boss's boss,

00:17:06.259 --> 00:17:06.519
he goes,

00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:07.820
we could put you back on nights if

00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:09.001
you want to go be a sub again.

00:17:09.682 --> 00:17:10.903
You can get that eighty bucks back a

00:17:10.943 --> 00:17:11.924
day.

00:17:13.026 --> 00:17:15.769
Oh, so you don't reward work.

00:17:15.808 --> 00:17:16.930
You just demand it.

00:17:17.833 --> 00:17:19.713
Lots of squeeze, no juice.

00:17:20.413 --> 00:17:21.634
So yeah, so we'll fast forward to,

00:17:21.714 --> 00:17:23.095
I was like, I had no money.

00:17:23.115 --> 00:17:24.076
I'm twenty four years old.

00:17:24.115 --> 00:17:26.296
I just busted my ass from age seventeen

00:17:26.316 --> 00:17:27.356
to twenty four to get a job at

00:17:27.376 --> 00:17:27.836
a radio station.

00:17:28.136 --> 00:17:28.477
I did it.

00:17:28.676 --> 00:17:29.817
I did all the right things.

00:17:29.877 --> 00:17:31.018
I got promoted three times in eight

00:17:31.038 --> 00:17:31.258
months.

00:17:31.618 --> 00:17:32.618
No financial reward.

00:17:32.638 --> 00:17:33.159
That's OK.

00:17:33.179 --> 00:17:33.818
I, you know,

00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.000
I can use this title to leverage it

00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:36.259
later.

00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:38.260
Was sitting there enough to do the math

00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:39.321
and go, this isn't going to math.

00:17:39.842 --> 00:17:40.162
I quit.

00:17:41.021 --> 00:17:42.542
The reason I got my break,

00:17:42.583 --> 00:17:42.923
I was quit.

00:17:42.942 --> 00:17:44.223
I was out of broadcasting.

00:17:44.304 --> 00:17:44.784
I'm done.

00:17:45.722 --> 00:17:46.604
On the way out the door,

00:17:46.624 --> 00:17:48.565
there was an industry magazine that would

00:17:48.605 --> 00:17:50.926
have who gets hired, fired, whatever.

00:17:52.508 --> 00:17:54.509
I was a nobody at a random ass

00:17:54.548 --> 00:17:57.991
station in market like one sixty.

00:17:58.092 --> 00:17:59.752
He puts it in there.

00:18:00.513 --> 00:18:00.973
McKay,

00:18:01.013 --> 00:18:05.676
music director after a midday jock quits.

00:18:06.157 --> 00:18:08.980
No reason given.

00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.280
That was a middle finger to me.

00:18:12.239 --> 00:18:13.819
And I was like, well, all right,

00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:15.059
I can't really counter that.

00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.201
But I did give a reason.

00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:17.421
It was very, very clear.

00:18:18.060 --> 00:18:22.522
Someone read that, needed a me,

00:18:22.563 --> 00:18:24.943
called the front desk person to get the

00:18:24.983 --> 00:18:27.726
real deal and goes, hey, McKay left.

00:18:27.806 --> 00:18:28.385
What's the deal?

00:18:28.726 --> 00:18:30.146
What kind of a guy is he really?

00:18:30.207 --> 00:18:31.146
And she goes, he's awesome.

00:18:32.067 --> 00:18:32.928
They're not paying him.

00:18:35.189 --> 00:18:36.368
Be nice to your front desk people.

00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:38.509
Melissa is the reason I ever got that

00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:39.130
second job.

00:18:39.369 --> 00:18:40.471
That next job...

00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:42.361
effort-matched,

00:18:42.781 --> 00:18:46.263
reward-matched effort better than it was.

00:18:46.403 --> 00:18:46.804
Perfect?

00:18:47.065 --> 00:18:49.246
No, but I was okay with the arrangement.

00:18:49.665 --> 00:18:51.146
I think clinicians are doing the same math

00:18:51.227 --> 00:18:52.407
I did in the first place and going,

00:18:52.647 --> 00:18:54.329
this math don't math, I'm out.

00:18:55.069 --> 00:18:56.151
And we're mad at them for it.

00:18:56.826 --> 00:18:58.645
I think the other thing is just having

00:18:58.766 --> 00:19:00.227
conversations with the people that work

00:19:00.247 --> 00:19:00.547
for you.

00:19:00.646 --> 00:19:04.708
If you can't provide them with more money,

00:19:04.847 --> 00:19:06.428
have that conversation.

00:19:06.468 --> 00:19:07.008
Then ask them,

00:19:07.028 --> 00:19:08.888
what are other ways that I can reward

00:19:08.909 --> 00:19:11.048
your discretionary effort?

00:19:11.189 --> 00:19:12.450
I don't need pizza.

00:19:12.569 --> 00:19:14.470
I'd like to leave an hour early.

00:19:16.090 --> 00:19:18.030
Is there a way that we can both

00:19:18.270 --> 00:19:20.051
still get what we need from this

00:19:20.271 --> 00:19:22.652
relationship that may not be monetary?

00:19:22.692 --> 00:19:24.813
Because that struggle is so real.

00:19:25.032 --> 00:19:25.553
I get that.

00:19:26.373 --> 00:19:29.894
And also asking people like,

00:19:30.074 --> 00:19:31.574
this is the expectation that I have.

00:19:31.594 --> 00:19:32.733
Do you feel like you're able to meet

00:19:32.773 --> 00:19:33.933
that expectation or not?

00:19:34.394 --> 00:19:36.375
And having that clear conversation with

00:19:36.414 --> 00:19:37.654
people I think is valuable.

00:19:38.035 --> 00:19:39.214
Hey, this is what I expect.

00:19:39.315 --> 00:19:40.296
And this is what I'll give for the,

00:19:40.375 --> 00:19:41.736
if you meet or exceed that,

00:19:41.875 --> 00:19:43.256
is that a fair juice versus squeeze?

00:19:43.736 --> 00:19:45.896
I had a boss years later, Bill Palmieri,

00:19:46.517 --> 00:19:47.817
who brought me to his office is like,

00:19:47.836 --> 00:19:49.217
Jimmy, I should be giving you a raise.

00:19:49.797 --> 00:19:51.817
You do more than I ask.

00:19:52.218 --> 00:19:52.738
I don't have it.

00:19:54.229 --> 00:19:54.788
And then he said,

00:19:55.009 --> 00:19:55.750
what can I give you?

00:19:56.329 --> 00:19:57.150
Do you know what he gave me?

00:19:58.190 --> 00:19:58.851
Free gas.

00:19:59.371 --> 00:20:00.810
The radio station had a gas card.

00:20:01.271 --> 00:20:01.751
He goes, Jimmy,

00:20:02.132 --> 00:20:03.873
I should be giving you more money in

00:20:03.893 --> 00:20:04.393
your paycheck.

00:20:04.512 --> 00:20:05.093
I can't do it.

00:20:05.333 --> 00:20:05.853
It ain't there.

00:20:06.452 --> 00:20:08.074
I don't want you also leaving my office

00:20:08.094 --> 00:20:09.755
and feeling like this place doesn't

00:20:09.775 --> 00:20:10.275
respect me.

00:20:10.654 --> 00:20:12.115
He laid it on the table and goes,

00:20:12.375 --> 00:20:13.236
I don't have it.

00:20:14.484 --> 00:20:15.464
Here's what I do have.

00:20:15.786 --> 00:20:17.306
Tell me what is of value to you.

00:20:17.346 --> 00:20:18.207
And I go, free gas.

00:20:18.666 --> 00:20:18.906
Okay.

00:20:19.186 --> 00:20:19.826
I was twenty eight.

00:20:19.906 --> 00:20:21.407
I go, I don't pay for gas anymore.

00:20:21.748 --> 00:20:22.709
This is great.

00:20:22.729 --> 00:20:24.068
I had to be within like, you know,

00:20:24.108 --> 00:20:25.609
fifty miles of this one gas station

00:20:25.630 --> 00:20:27.130
because we had the account at that guy.

00:20:27.170 --> 00:20:27.830
But hey, for Mike.

00:20:28.151 --> 00:20:28.371
Okay.

00:20:28.830 --> 00:20:29.290
Thank you.

00:20:30.011 --> 00:20:31.051
And what did he give me?

00:20:31.192 --> 00:20:32.373
I don't know how much gas was I

00:20:32.413 --> 00:20:32.673
burning,

00:20:32.712 --> 00:20:34.773
driving twenty eight minutes to and from.

00:20:35.473 --> 00:20:37.654
But I felt like, oh, okay, cool.

00:20:37.694 --> 00:20:38.194
You can't.

00:20:38.855 --> 00:20:40.036
I still value being here.

00:20:41.247 --> 00:20:42.849
I believe that you can't give me what

00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:45.713
I'm looking for, but you asked me,

00:20:45.894 --> 00:20:46.434
what would it be?

00:20:47.096 --> 00:20:47.476
Yeah.

00:20:47.516 --> 00:20:48.237
What do you want to be?

00:20:48.257 --> 00:20:49.118
You want a better title?

00:20:49.638 --> 00:20:51.561
You want less responsibility?

00:20:52.584 --> 00:20:53.765
Is there a product you want to work

00:20:53.904 --> 00:20:54.066
on?

00:20:54.365 --> 00:20:54.707
Right.

00:20:54.987 --> 00:20:56.449
Let me support you while you put yourself

00:20:56.509 --> 00:20:56.869
out there.

00:20:57.540 --> 00:20:59.201
I heard this yesterday in a podcast,

00:20:59.261 --> 00:21:00.123
and I don't know anything about

00:21:00.343 --> 00:21:02.243
moviemaking or Hollywood or anything like

00:21:02.284 --> 00:21:05.125
that, but apparently there's this...

00:21:05.605 --> 00:21:06.946
If you get to a certain level of

00:21:07.567 --> 00:21:08.887
fame,

00:21:09.188 --> 00:21:10.949
you can ask for in your contract a

00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:12.390
one for you, one for me.

00:21:12.851 --> 00:21:13.971
What this means is,

00:21:14.050 --> 00:21:15.392
if you're Robert Downey Jr.,

00:21:15.412 --> 00:21:16.532
I'll use him as an example,

00:21:16.932 --> 00:21:17.292
and they're like,

00:21:17.473 --> 00:21:18.753
we need another Iron Man movie.

00:21:19.174 --> 00:21:20.075
And Robert Downey Jr.

00:21:20.174 --> 00:21:21.796
is now at the point in his career

00:21:21.816 --> 00:21:22.297
where he's like...

00:21:23.237 --> 00:21:24.597
I don't want to do that anymore for

00:21:24.617 --> 00:21:25.238
whatever reason.

00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:27.420
He can go one for you,

00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:27.960
one for me.

00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:29.221
Meaning if Robert Downey Jr.

00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.143
wants to do a movie about a pet

00:21:34.163 --> 00:21:34.564
project,

00:21:34.763 --> 00:21:36.525
I want to do a movie about Napoleon

00:21:36.785 --> 00:21:37.865
and I want to play Napoleon.

00:21:38.445 --> 00:21:39.666
It's probably going to lose some money or

00:21:39.707 --> 00:21:40.426
not make a lot of money.

00:21:40.646 --> 00:21:42.048
He goes, I'll give you the Iron Man.

00:21:42.087 --> 00:21:43.949
You give me Napoleon.

00:21:44.048 --> 00:21:44.789
One for you, one for me.

00:21:46.601 --> 00:21:47.801
We don't have any more money to pay

00:21:47.821 --> 00:21:48.442
you for Ironman.

00:21:48.482 --> 00:21:49.303
That's as much.

00:21:49.583 --> 00:21:50.604
So Robert Downey Jr.

00:21:50.644 --> 00:21:51.505
goes, good.

00:21:51.964 --> 00:21:52.905
I want something else.

00:21:54.007 --> 00:21:55.008
You can negotiate that.

00:21:56.088 --> 00:21:59.271
I think we'd be a better profession if

00:21:59.332 --> 00:22:01.874
we thought more like that and less like

00:22:01.973 --> 00:22:03.474
these kids today don't want to work hard.

00:22:03.934 --> 00:22:05.155
I don't think that's true.

00:22:05.416 --> 00:22:06.758
And I think then I would want you

00:22:06.778 --> 00:22:06.837
to...

00:22:07.478 --> 00:22:08.878
This is what I do for people who

00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:10.300
don't like the APTA.

00:22:10.441 --> 00:22:10.760
And I go,

00:22:10.901 --> 00:22:12.742
point at the member you don't like.

00:22:14.275 --> 00:22:15.576
Zoom in.

00:22:15.596 --> 00:22:16.415
Same as racism.

00:22:16.556 --> 00:22:17.195
I don't like them.

00:22:17.276 --> 00:22:17.435
Great.

00:22:17.455 --> 00:22:18.236
Can you show me one?

00:22:18.276 --> 00:22:19.757
Well, not that person.

00:22:19.797 --> 00:22:20.297
He's my neighbor.

00:22:20.317 --> 00:22:20.836
He's cool.

00:22:21.217 --> 00:22:22.278
But them in general.

00:22:22.538 --> 00:22:24.057
When you break it down to specifics,

00:22:24.317 --> 00:22:25.638
usually the argument falls apart.

00:22:25.939 --> 00:22:28.038
So it's like, show me the PT,

00:22:28.058 --> 00:22:30.480
the new grad PT that doesn't work hard

00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:30.720
enough.

00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:32.881
And I'll go, great, then fire them.

00:22:32.921 --> 00:22:33.601
Fire that person.

00:22:34.101 --> 00:22:36.342
But making a sweeping generalization is

00:22:36.442 --> 00:22:39.042
lazy and it's a house built on sand.

00:22:39.063 --> 00:22:40.363
The argument doesn't hold water.

00:22:40.891 --> 00:22:42.852
I think some other pieces are in PT

00:22:42.872 --> 00:22:43.073
school,

00:22:43.093 --> 00:22:44.554
we don't really learn about business,

00:22:44.634 --> 00:22:44.854
right?

00:22:44.953 --> 00:22:46.115
Like we don't.

00:22:46.375 --> 00:22:47.776
We barely learn about insurance.

00:22:47.796 --> 00:22:49.336
We barely learn about business.

00:22:49.717 --> 00:22:51.258
Certainly not prepared to go out and run

00:22:51.298 --> 00:22:51.939
a business.

00:22:52.419 --> 00:22:54.660
And so for business owners feeling these

00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:55.500
people don't work hard,

00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:57.342
like they probably don't understand, A,

00:22:57.422 --> 00:22:58.482
everything that goes into running a

00:22:58.522 --> 00:22:58.923
business.

00:22:59.282 --> 00:22:59.483
B,

00:22:59.523 --> 00:23:01.204
you didn't hire them to run the business.

00:23:01.605 --> 00:23:02.306
And C, like...

00:23:03.226 --> 00:23:04.967
maybe if you could teach them a little

00:23:04.987 --> 00:23:07.307
bit more about that so they understand all

00:23:07.327 --> 00:23:09.028
the components that go into that

00:23:09.087 --> 00:23:12.130
business's success then they can see the

00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:14.069
goal post a little bit better but what

00:23:14.089 --> 00:23:16.250
we've promised students when they go into

00:23:16.290 --> 00:23:18.551
the field is that you work hard which

00:23:18.592 --> 00:23:20.893
they've done like this i mean to say

00:23:20.913 --> 00:23:23.453
that pts are not hard workers it's hard

00:23:23.473 --> 00:23:25.255
to get through college it's hard to get

00:23:25.315 --> 00:23:27.316
into pt school it's hard to finish pt

00:23:27.355 --> 00:23:27.576
school

00:23:27.776 --> 00:23:28.636
It's hard to pass the boards and get

00:23:28.656 --> 00:23:28.817
licensed.

00:23:28.977 --> 00:23:30.798
It's expensive to do all those things too.

00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:32.721
School's longer, it's more expensive.

00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:33.301
Yes.

00:23:33.761 --> 00:23:35.304
And we've promised them that at the end

00:23:35.344 --> 00:23:36.164
of that hard work,

00:23:36.285 --> 00:23:37.965
you can have a safe job where you

00:23:37.986 --> 00:23:40.269
get compensated for all of your hard work

00:23:40.308 --> 00:23:42.451
to date and all of your ongoing hard

00:23:42.490 --> 00:23:42.851
work.

00:23:43.451 --> 00:23:45.034
And then when it feels like that promise

00:23:45.094 --> 00:23:45.855
isn't fulfilled,

00:23:45.934 --> 00:23:48.116
I think it's also hard for new PTs

00:23:48.136 --> 00:23:48.576
to be like,

00:23:49.478 --> 00:23:51.378
why am I still hustling like this?

00:23:53.118 --> 00:23:53.640
And they leave.

00:23:54.099 --> 00:23:54.740
I had so many,

00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:56.721
I wouldn't say so many classmates.

00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:58.060
It was the class, I think,

00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:00.102
behind me and two classes behind me.

00:24:00.622 --> 00:24:01.662
I see a lot of them being like,

00:24:01.701 --> 00:24:03.042
they did that math.

00:24:03.942 --> 00:24:05.203
I didn't love being in the clinic,

00:24:05.384 --> 00:24:06.943
so I shouldn't have been, so I didn't.

00:24:07.104 --> 00:24:09.005
But I definitely saw the math on the

00:24:09.045 --> 00:24:09.365
wall.

00:24:09.525 --> 00:24:12.506
I mean, peds, PTs, gosh,

00:24:12.526 --> 00:24:14.146
they should have pitchforks and torches

00:24:14.247 --> 00:24:16.708
out all the time, notoriously.

00:24:17.761 --> 00:24:19.442
Because I saw that math.

00:24:19.522 --> 00:24:21.483
And the owner of the PT clinic that

00:24:21.523 --> 00:24:23.444
I worked in in Peds, she was like,

00:24:23.684 --> 00:24:25.286
I will show you the math.

00:24:26.846 --> 00:24:27.247
She would.

00:24:27.267 --> 00:24:27.906
She was an OT.

00:24:27.926 --> 00:24:28.186
She was like,

00:24:28.287 --> 00:24:29.327
I would love to pay you more.

00:24:29.488 --> 00:24:31.288
She's like, I will show you the math.

00:24:31.608 --> 00:24:32.108
And she did.

00:24:32.388 --> 00:24:33.009
The bookkeeper.

00:24:33.309 --> 00:24:34.269
She let me sit with the bookkeeper.

00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:35.530
I was like, I'm not disagreeing.

00:24:35.550 --> 00:24:36.691
I don't think you're lying.

00:24:36.911 --> 00:24:37.832
I just want to see this because I

00:24:37.852 --> 00:24:38.551
want to understand it.

00:24:38.751 --> 00:24:39.472
And they showed it to me and I

00:24:39.492 --> 00:24:42.374
was like, damn, that math is stupid.

00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:46.021
stupid and but then i left i was

00:24:46.041 --> 00:24:48.083
like i can't i i will be unhappy

00:24:48.483 --> 00:24:49.944
because it will feel unfair every time i

00:24:49.984 --> 00:24:51.546
walk in the door so leave and i

00:24:51.566 --> 00:24:54.167
did yeah but then people will go the

00:24:54.208 --> 00:24:57.150
same finger waggers that will say to in

00:24:57.210 --> 00:24:58.730
general again not pointing the finger

00:24:58.770 --> 00:25:00.553
everybody but i am saying this happens a

00:25:00.573 --> 00:25:01.973
lot these kids today don't want to work

00:25:02.013 --> 00:25:03.535
hard that's why i mean it must be

00:25:03.575 --> 00:25:05.155
said so much i'm able to say it

00:25:05.175 --> 00:25:05.777
as a cliche

00:25:06.942 --> 00:25:08.224
Those same people,

00:25:08.325 --> 00:25:09.787
I feel like a lot of times will

00:25:09.826 --> 00:25:10.327
also say,

00:25:10.769 --> 00:25:12.832
there's no one that we can't hire anybody

00:25:13.172 --> 00:25:14.574
because these kids don't want to work.

00:25:15.095 --> 00:25:17.959
Or do you have a shitty conversion factor?

00:25:18.721 --> 00:25:20.123
And it might not be your fault either.

00:25:20.943 --> 00:25:22.005
Or do they not want to work for

00:25:22.046 --> 00:25:22.165
you?

00:25:23.171 --> 00:25:25.791
Like, what are you doing, too, to, like,

00:25:26.031 --> 00:25:28.952
encourage people to do that work?

00:25:29.074 --> 00:25:30.693
Like, I don't know.

00:25:30.913 --> 00:25:32.394
When we have a conversation with our kids

00:25:32.414 --> 00:25:32.734
about, like,

00:25:32.795 --> 00:25:34.155
everybody needs to help out at home, like,

00:25:34.195 --> 00:25:34.455
why?

00:25:34.516 --> 00:25:35.496
If mom's going to do it, like,

00:25:35.516 --> 00:25:37.436
why would I, like, hustle and, like,

00:25:37.477 --> 00:25:38.396
do more of that?

00:25:38.577 --> 00:25:40.178
So when we have conversations about, like,

00:25:40.738 --> 00:25:42.318
the team and their shared goals,

00:25:42.659 --> 00:25:43.500
shared mission,

00:25:43.539 --> 00:25:45.339
what everybody's reward is for us all

00:25:45.380 --> 00:25:46.320
working together, like,

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.942
that kind of thing improves.

00:25:48.021 --> 00:25:48.501
And I feel like

00:25:49.945 --> 00:25:50.105
Like,

00:25:50.205 --> 00:25:51.867
I also wouldn't want to work for somebody

00:25:51.907 --> 00:25:52.407
that's like,

00:25:52.808 --> 00:25:54.769
nobody wants to work and who's complaining

00:25:54.809 --> 00:25:55.510
all day either.

00:25:55.550 --> 00:25:58.053
So I think, you know, it's just,

00:25:59.054 --> 00:25:59.994
it's a hard thing.

00:26:01.236 --> 00:26:02.257
It's a hard thing.

00:26:02.778 --> 00:26:04.398
And I feel like to a certain extent,

00:26:04.618 --> 00:26:06.921
largely nobody wants to manage or lead

00:26:07.082 --> 00:26:07.442
either.

00:26:08.063 --> 00:26:10.424
And that is also a little bit of

00:26:10.444 --> 00:26:11.625
a void in our profession.

00:26:12.118 --> 00:26:13.902
Matt Huey, you know Matt Huey, right?

00:26:14.643 --> 00:26:15.243
Mm-mm.

00:26:15.263 --> 00:26:15.804
You know him.

00:26:17.066 --> 00:26:18.407
I'll look up what his Instagram account

00:26:18.428 --> 00:26:21.471
is, but he makes really funny Dr.

00:26:21.511 --> 00:26:23.174
Glaucum-fucking-type videos.

00:26:23.214 --> 00:26:24.696
Okay.

00:26:24.757 --> 00:26:26.138
He did this one the other day where

00:26:26.179 --> 00:26:26.660
he was like,

00:26:29.313 --> 00:26:30.854
who's pretending to be his inbox.

00:26:31.614 --> 00:26:33.233
So there he is at his computer.

00:26:33.334 --> 00:26:35.015
And he's like, here's my LinkedIn inbox.

00:26:35.055 --> 00:26:36.174
And someone knocked on my door.

00:26:36.194 --> 00:26:37.435
And it was like, hey,

00:26:37.675 --> 00:26:39.536
we have a great job opportunity for you

00:26:39.736 --> 00:26:40.777
with competitive salary.

00:26:40.817 --> 00:26:41.896
And then flip back to Matt.

00:26:41.916 --> 00:26:43.357
And Matt goes, awesome.

00:26:43.557 --> 00:26:44.458
How far away is it?

00:26:44.478 --> 00:26:45.458
And they're like, four hours.

00:26:45.478 --> 00:26:46.157
And it's like, okay, well,

00:26:46.178 --> 00:26:46.878
why are you targeting me?

00:26:46.898 --> 00:26:49.440
So he's poking fun at the typical

00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:49.900
interaction.

00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.420
And then he goes, and they go, well,

00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:53.300
how much are you paying?

00:26:53.361 --> 00:26:53.800
I would need...

00:26:55.134 --> 00:26:57.234
to be compensated more to do something

00:26:57.255 --> 00:26:58.596
that far away or to do whatever.

00:26:58.615 --> 00:26:59.175
They go, well,

00:26:59.195 --> 00:27:00.777
we have a clinic director position open

00:27:00.836 --> 00:27:01.718
twenty minutes away from you.

00:27:01.738 --> 00:27:03.038
He goes, great, how much is that paying?

00:27:03.138 --> 00:27:03.499
And they're like,

00:27:03.798 --> 00:27:05.059
six thousand dollars more a year.

00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:05.420
And he goes,

00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:06.881
what would I be required doing?

00:27:07.201 --> 00:27:08.480
Like how many hours of clinical and how

00:27:08.501 --> 00:27:10.903
many hours of clinic directing?

00:27:11.163 --> 00:27:11.682
And they said, well,

00:27:11.722 --> 00:27:13.003
forty hours of clinical still.

00:27:13.243 --> 00:27:14.964
You would just do the other work when

00:27:14.984 --> 00:27:15.384
you could.

00:27:16.006 --> 00:27:16.826
In your spare time.

00:27:17.286 --> 00:27:17.686
In your spare time.

00:27:17.926 --> 00:27:18.826
So, of course,

00:27:19.007 --> 00:27:21.088
he is being facetious and tongue in cheek,

00:27:21.189 --> 00:27:21.328
but

00:27:22.478 --> 00:27:24.519
Not really facetious or tongue-in-cheek.

00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:26.701
That literally is sometimes the equation.

00:27:27.102 --> 00:27:28.242
I mean, I worked for a...

00:27:28.962 --> 00:27:29.763
My last clinical...

00:27:29.864 --> 00:27:31.184
And I won't even say what the company

00:27:31.224 --> 00:27:31.505
was,

00:27:31.846 --> 00:27:34.528
but the clinic director who was there to

00:27:34.548 --> 00:27:35.008
just tell me,

00:27:35.288 --> 00:27:36.568
my job is to bang this out,

00:27:36.608 --> 00:27:37.549
make some extra money,

00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:38.671
and then get the hell out of here

00:27:38.711 --> 00:27:39.311
in three years.

00:27:39.731 --> 00:27:40.932
And having a student will help me do

00:27:40.952 --> 00:27:42.034
that because you doubled my output,

00:27:42.973 --> 00:27:44.895
was very clear that that's exactly what...

00:27:44.976 --> 00:27:45.296
He's like,

00:27:45.757 --> 00:27:47.137
I'm a clinic director and I get paid

00:27:47.218 --> 00:27:50.480
pretty much the same salary, pretty much.

00:27:51.242 --> 00:27:52.304
than the average clinician.

00:27:52.344 --> 00:27:52.604
He goes,

00:27:53.064 --> 00:27:56.286
I'm here for bonuses to game the system,

00:27:57.026 --> 00:27:57.906
to hit bonuses.

00:27:58.326 --> 00:28:00.188
And then I'm going to use this as

00:28:00.228 --> 00:28:03.809
a launchpad to go somewhere else.

00:28:04.770 --> 00:28:04.851
Yeah.

00:28:04.871 --> 00:28:06.132
And it's not like a lot of reward

00:28:06.172 --> 00:28:07.051
for his hard work.

00:28:07.231 --> 00:28:07.772
Correct.

00:28:07.792 --> 00:28:10.614
He's like, so I'm getting an extra...

00:28:10.815 --> 00:28:12.115
After taxes and all that, he was like,

00:28:12.234 --> 00:28:14.277
I'm getting an extra two hundred dollars a

00:28:14.376 --> 00:28:14.757
check.

00:28:15.766 --> 00:28:17.826
be the clinic director and when do i

00:28:17.866 --> 00:28:21.328
do that work whenever i can what what

00:28:21.368 --> 00:28:22.670
type of work do you think that will

00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:26.672
be the lowest you you've you've just

00:28:27.852 --> 00:28:30.032
structured it so he does the le the

00:28:30.252 --> 00:28:31.314
if you're going to give him the least

00:28:31.493 --> 00:28:32.954
reward he's going to do the least work

00:28:33.494 --> 00:28:35.135
you can't be mad don't hate the player

00:28:35.476 --> 00:28:37.336
hate the game and supposedly the finger

00:28:37.356 --> 00:28:38.637
waggers are the ones who are in charge

00:28:38.657 --> 00:28:42.118
of the game i mean did you watch

00:28:42.138 --> 00:28:43.640
the movie the martian with matt damon no

00:28:45.605 --> 00:28:46.405
They essentially said,

00:28:46.526 --> 00:28:47.306
like one of the guys was like,

00:28:47.346 --> 00:28:48.125
don't worry about it.

00:28:48.165 --> 00:28:49.247
He was sitting in a rocket ready to

00:28:49.287 --> 00:28:49.686
take off.

00:28:49.707 --> 00:28:51.007
I was like, don't worry about it.

00:28:51.446 --> 00:28:54.288
You're sitting on fifty thousand pounds of

00:28:54.327 --> 00:28:56.768
metal held together together by screws

00:28:57.167 --> 00:28:59.788
filled with rocket fuel that was created

00:29:00.348 --> 00:29:02.249
by the lowest bidder.

00:29:04.128 --> 00:29:05.109
It wasn't the best.

00:29:05.450 --> 00:29:06.990
It was the one willing to do it

00:29:07.009 --> 00:29:07.730
the cheapest.

00:29:08.150 --> 00:29:11.211
And then you're upset about the results.

00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:11.911
Don't hate the player.

00:29:13.356 --> 00:29:14.597
Maybe I should have titled my article,

00:29:14.637 --> 00:29:15.859
Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game.

00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:16.861
But instead I titled it,

00:29:17.142 --> 00:29:18.462
Hard Work Didn't Stop Working,

00:29:18.723 --> 00:29:20.465
Physical Therapy Stopped Rewarding It.

00:29:21.444 --> 00:29:22.465
Well, and I don't think you're wrong.

00:29:22.526 --> 00:29:24.647
I recently met with clinicians in Durango,

00:29:25.008 --> 00:29:25.407
Colorado,

00:29:25.428 --> 00:29:28.069
which is a really rural part of Colorado.

00:29:28.109 --> 00:29:30.892
And I think there are hiring problems,

00:29:30.932 --> 00:29:31.113
right?

00:29:31.153 --> 00:29:32.493
Like they're like a lot of private

00:29:32.534 --> 00:29:33.654
practices have to close because they

00:29:33.674 --> 00:29:35.355
couldn't hire people to work there.

00:29:35.935 --> 00:29:36.676
And why?

00:29:36.717 --> 00:29:38.038
Because they're in a rural setting,

00:29:38.117 --> 00:29:39.798
they can't compensate people for that.

00:29:40.099 --> 00:29:42.821
And like the amount that the clinic gets,

00:29:44.323 --> 00:29:44.762
it doesn't,

00:29:45.304 --> 00:29:46.424
the reimbursement that they get

00:29:47.548 --> 00:29:49.049
Doesn't care that they're in rural

00:29:49.089 --> 00:29:49.970
Durango, right?

00:29:50.049 --> 00:29:50.971
Like it doesn't care.

00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:52.131
They get paid the same amount.

00:29:52.191 --> 00:29:53.771
So how are they supposed to entice people

00:29:53.811 --> 00:29:56.273
to rural parts of the state where it's

00:29:56.334 --> 00:29:57.374
harder to access things?

00:29:57.394 --> 00:29:59.795
There's fewer opportunities and there's no

00:29:59.994 --> 00:30:01.496
extra like reward for that.

00:30:01.655 --> 00:30:03.537
And so I don't blame clinic owners either.

00:30:03.576 --> 00:30:04.998
Like where are they supposed to get that

00:30:05.097 --> 00:30:06.699
extra reward?

00:30:06.979 --> 00:30:08.039
But it doesn't mean people don't want to

00:30:08.059 --> 00:30:08.339
work.

00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:11.201
It might just mean they can't afford to.

00:30:11.221 --> 00:30:12.622
This is where barking at each other.

00:30:12.741 --> 00:30:13.663
Ain't this year.

00:30:13.742 --> 00:30:15.363
Don't hate the players.

00:30:15.903 --> 00:30:16.403
Hate the game.

00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:19.240
yeah and i wrote a post the other

00:30:19.260 --> 00:30:21.442
day that was like the the meme with

00:30:21.462 --> 00:30:23.224
the dog sitting in the fire and it's

00:30:23.244 --> 00:30:27.387
like it's fine it's all fine and because

00:30:27.428 --> 00:30:29.670
somebody said to me i'm just whenever i

00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:31.352
have a pt student come shadow with me

00:30:31.531 --> 00:30:32.673
i tell them not to go into the

00:30:32.692 --> 00:30:35.875
field oh yeah how'd that go and so

00:30:36.096 --> 00:30:37.757
i you know and i said i understand

00:30:37.777 --> 00:30:39.459
that to a certain extent there are fires

00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:40.819
on all fronts of our profession

00:30:42.034 --> 00:30:43.193
And we're the dog, right?

00:30:43.314 --> 00:30:46.035
But I'm choosing to be a fire extinguisher

00:30:46.795 --> 00:30:48.815
and put out fires on all sides, right?

00:30:48.835 --> 00:30:50.076
And I'm doing that through advocacy.

00:30:50.155 --> 00:30:51.736
I'm doing that through talking to other

00:30:51.796 --> 00:30:52.256
clinicians.

00:30:52.296 --> 00:30:54.576
I'm doing that through making continuing

00:30:54.615 --> 00:30:55.596
education content.

00:30:55.696 --> 00:30:57.156
I'm doing it by meeting with our

00:30:57.176 --> 00:30:57.717
legislators.

00:30:57.757 --> 00:31:00.018
Like I'm doing it by being in the

00:31:00.077 --> 00:31:00.577
APTA.

00:31:00.597 --> 00:31:02.317
Like there are so many ways that I'm

00:31:02.478 --> 00:31:03.758
going to fight for our profession because

00:31:03.798 --> 00:31:04.678
I think it's worthwhile.

00:31:05.219 --> 00:31:07.118
But if you're also that person who's like,

00:31:07.979 --> 00:31:09.079
I am going to just sit here and

00:31:09.161 --> 00:31:09.540
burn,

00:31:09.701 --> 00:31:10.801
then maybe you should get out of the

00:31:10.821 --> 00:31:11.623
house while it's burning.

00:31:12.023 --> 00:31:14.625
Either help put the fire out or maybe

00:31:15.307 --> 00:31:15.707
step out.

00:31:15.767 --> 00:31:16.808
And there's no shame in that.

00:31:16.868 --> 00:31:17.588
If you don't want to be in a

00:31:17.608 --> 00:31:19.030
burning building, I totally get it.

00:31:19.330 --> 00:31:20.432
But the building is going to continue to

00:31:20.451 --> 00:31:21.773
burn unless we put the fires out.

00:31:22.233 --> 00:31:23.355
And standing there saying, well,

00:31:23.455 --> 00:31:25.538
I just wouldn't get in the house in

00:31:25.557 --> 00:31:26.259
the first place.

00:31:26.659 --> 00:31:28.000
I just don't feel like it's very helpful

00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:28.401
rhetoric.

00:31:29.557 --> 00:31:30.678
Yeah, you can make it.

00:31:30.778 --> 00:31:31.738
I always tell people,

00:31:32.878 --> 00:31:34.359
it's your First Amendment right to bitch

00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.180
and moan.

00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.922
It's just if you understand what the juice

00:31:37.942 --> 00:31:39.321
versus squeeze ratio is in that,

00:31:39.363 --> 00:31:40.502
are you getting anything out of it?

00:31:41.663 --> 00:31:45.586
I will say a particular annoyance of mine

00:31:45.846 --> 00:31:50.128
is something you alluded to a second ago.

00:31:50.209 --> 00:31:51.628
I can't find anybody to work for me.

00:31:51.890 --> 00:31:53.470
And then I'll look at their job posting

00:31:53.651 --> 00:31:54.351
and it'll be... Oh, yeah.

00:31:55.063 --> 00:31:56.845
we have a job, do you want it?

00:31:56.924 --> 00:31:59.487
And I'm like, and I call that,

00:31:59.586 --> 00:32:01.167
and I've now coined this phrase,

00:32:01.188 --> 00:32:01.989
and if anybody wants to use it,

00:32:02.009 --> 00:32:02.388
they can,

00:32:02.769 --> 00:32:05.932
but that is mayonnaise-flavored ice cream.

00:32:06.893 --> 00:32:07.874
Everybody wants ice cream.

00:32:09.575 --> 00:32:11.096
Nobody wants mayonnaise-flavored ice

00:32:11.136 --> 00:32:11.336
cream.

00:32:11.576 --> 00:32:12.538
Everybody wants a job,

00:32:12.877 --> 00:32:14.179
but nobody wants that job.

00:32:14.298 --> 00:32:14.599
Why?

00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:15.559
Because you've made it,

00:32:16.101 --> 00:32:17.602
I'm already picturing what that tastes

00:32:17.642 --> 00:32:19.763
like, and no bueno.

00:32:20.243 --> 00:32:21.925
So I would say- I got a new

00:32:21.965 --> 00:32:22.987
line this week, though.

00:32:23.007 --> 00:32:23.366
A new what?

00:32:23.549 --> 00:32:25.211
A new kind of job pitch.

00:32:27.031 --> 00:32:29.272
Oh, please lay it on me.

00:32:29.292 --> 00:32:30.894
So I got an email that said urgent

00:32:30.933 --> 00:32:31.755
confidential.

00:32:32.674 --> 00:32:34.977
You are being recruited for a highly

00:32:35.037 --> 00:32:39.159
coveted non-clinic or non-entry level

00:32:39.199 --> 00:32:40.640
clinician clinic job.

00:32:41.140 --> 00:32:43.842
And because of your specific roles in

00:32:43.882 --> 00:32:44.942
these three areas,

00:32:45.363 --> 00:32:48.483
you are headhunted elite talent.

00:32:48.625 --> 00:32:48.884
Yeah.

00:32:49.585 --> 00:32:51.726
You are the elite supreme empress of

00:32:51.806 --> 00:32:52.746
physical therapy.

00:32:53.205 --> 00:32:54.787
And we won't tell you what the job

00:32:54.946 --> 00:32:57.667
is unless you send your resume,

00:32:58.008 --> 00:33:00.929
your contact information,

00:33:01.028 --> 00:33:02.429
and then we'll reveal all.

00:33:02.489 --> 00:33:06.230
But this elite, secret, high-level,

00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:08.871
magical clinical position that somehow

00:33:08.931 --> 00:33:12.652
meets your weird talents is exclusively

00:33:12.711 --> 00:33:15.093
available through headhunting.

00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.319
Oh, and by the way,

00:33:16.721 --> 00:33:17.980
the only way to unlock it is for

00:33:18.020 --> 00:33:18.882
you to tell us who you are.

00:33:18.942 --> 00:33:21.482
So we know you intimately, but also...

00:33:21.522 --> 00:33:23.804
We're sure you're the right fit for this

00:33:23.844 --> 00:33:24.183
job.

00:33:24.243 --> 00:33:25.785
But just send your resume so we can

00:33:25.845 --> 00:33:26.325
make sure.

00:33:26.805 --> 00:33:28.965
It'd be like the Yankees reaching out to

00:33:29.006 --> 00:33:31.847
a recruit who's in AAA,

00:33:31.867 --> 00:33:33.087
who's going to be the next whatever,

00:33:33.167 --> 00:33:35.730
Derek Jeter, and being like, you're it,

00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:36.009
man.

00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:36.829
You're our future.

00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:37.671
Highly elite.

00:33:37.911 --> 00:33:39.451
Don't tell anybody we're recruiting you.

00:33:39.590 --> 00:33:40.211
By the way,

00:33:40.251 --> 00:33:41.913
could you send us film on you and

00:33:41.932 --> 00:33:43.333
your stats for the last three years?

00:33:43.633 --> 00:33:44.554
Also, what position you play?

00:33:45.267 --> 00:33:45.946
But we know you.

00:33:46.948 --> 00:33:47.887
And part of me was like,

00:33:47.907 --> 00:33:48.907
when I first started reading it,

00:33:48.928 --> 00:33:50.008
I was like, ooh.

00:33:50.087 --> 00:33:53.249
And then I was like, ew.

00:33:53.470 --> 00:33:54.609
I did this a while ago.

00:33:54.910 --> 00:33:55.710
But have you,

00:33:55.910 --> 00:33:57.431
you're someone who's probably had this.

00:33:57.510 --> 00:33:58.790
Have you ever been invited to like,

00:33:59.191 --> 00:34:00.832
you know what predatory journals are?

00:34:01.451 --> 00:34:01.872
Yes.

00:34:02.771 --> 00:34:03.752
I get a lot of those.

00:34:04.153 --> 00:34:05.673
But have you ever been invited to a

00:34:05.732 --> 00:34:07.013
predatory conference?

00:34:07.294 --> 00:34:07.733
Yes.

00:34:08.862 --> 00:34:10.224
I would have assumed so.

00:34:10.304 --> 00:34:11.625
And it sounded really cool.

00:34:11.664 --> 00:34:13.146
And it was in the UK.

00:34:13.226 --> 00:34:13.965
And I was like, oh,

00:34:14.065 --> 00:34:15.726
I would love to go to the UK.

00:34:15.746 --> 00:34:16.927
So for people who don't know,

00:34:17.047 --> 00:34:18.809
a predatory journal... And again,

00:34:18.869 --> 00:34:19.789
I am not in academics.

00:34:19.989 --> 00:34:22.391
So I will say this and then you

00:34:22.431 --> 00:34:24.112
correct me where I'm wrong.

00:34:24.193 --> 00:34:25.934
Essentially, you're rewarded.

00:34:26.134 --> 00:34:26.693
Talk about reward.

00:34:26.813 --> 00:34:30.556
You're rewarded or you're required to be

00:34:30.617 --> 00:34:31.097
published.

00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:34.101
depending on your academic arrangement,

00:34:34.161 --> 00:34:34.402
right?

00:34:34.742 --> 00:34:35.422
Yeah.

00:34:35.443 --> 00:34:37.043
That's where the term publish or perish

00:34:37.063 --> 00:34:37.423
comes from.

00:34:37.925 --> 00:34:39.686
So let's say... This is great.

00:34:39.766 --> 00:34:40.405
I didn't understand this,

00:34:40.425 --> 00:34:41.226
but this is a good parallel.

00:34:41.567 --> 00:34:43.289
Let's say you do a lot of academic

00:34:43.309 --> 00:34:44.889
work or research work or whatever,

00:34:45.731 --> 00:34:49.893
but nobody accepts you to get published,

00:34:49.914 --> 00:34:51.094
should you not be rewarded.

00:34:51.394 --> 00:34:53.016
But that was the agreement that you signed

00:34:53.115 --> 00:34:53.235
on.

00:34:53.416 --> 00:34:54.657
So if you don't get published in

00:34:54.737 --> 00:34:55.097
whatever...

00:34:56.391 --> 00:34:59.213
I don't know this type of journal or

00:34:59.733 --> 00:35:01.293
a lot of them are published.

00:35:01.474 --> 00:35:02.715
It's binary.

00:35:03.255 --> 00:35:04.556
The answer is published.

00:35:04.576 --> 00:35:05.635
You don't have to be published in a

00:35:05.675 --> 00:35:07.117
respected journal because of course

00:35:07.577 --> 00:35:09.818
respected is subjective or a journal with

00:35:09.858 --> 00:35:11.219
an impact rating of blah, blah, blah.

00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:11.719
Is that the right word?

00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.280
Impact rating?

00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.280
I don't know.

00:35:13.806 --> 00:35:14.565
They're graded somehow.

00:35:14.606 --> 00:35:15.507
Again, not in academics.

00:35:15.806 --> 00:35:16.507
There's my asterisk.

00:35:16.987 --> 00:35:18.387
But this sort of sucks, which is like,

00:35:18.407 --> 00:35:19.949
you could be a great everything,

00:35:20.268 --> 00:35:22.010
but because someone else didn't want to

00:35:22.050 --> 00:35:24.570
publish your work, you get shortchanged.

00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:25.331
But you know what?

00:35:25.411 --> 00:35:26.711
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

00:35:27.132 --> 00:35:29.333
So this is very enterprising.

00:35:29.693 --> 00:35:32.675
Organizations pop up and they go, well,

00:35:32.855 --> 00:35:33.394
we're a journal.

00:35:34.630 --> 00:35:36.092
We'll publish it for two hundred and fifty

00:35:36.112 --> 00:35:36.552
dollars.

00:35:36.893 --> 00:35:38.094
And for two hundred and fifty dollars,

00:35:38.114 --> 00:35:39.635
you can be published and we'll just come

00:35:39.655 --> 00:35:40.076
to you.

00:35:40.115 --> 00:35:41.697
So that's a predatory journal,

00:35:41.797 --> 00:35:43.778
which there might be some good research in

00:35:43.798 --> 00:35:45.481
there that just didn't get in other

00:35:45.501 --> 00:35:45.961
places.

00:35:46.702 --> 00:35:48.503
But from what I've talked to,

00:35:48.664 --> 00:35:50.385
I had Chad Cook on here once and

00:35:50.626 --> 00:35:51.567
it was great.

00:35:51.586 --> 00:35:52.407
That's a different story.

00:35:52.427 --> 00:35:54.048
But he he did this on purpose.

00:35:54.769 --> 00:35:56.630
got published in a predatory journal to

00:35:56.690 --> 00:35:59.472
show how insane and they'll publish

00:35:59.512 --> 00:35:59.893
anything.

00:36:00.193 --> 00:36:01.273
Just give us two hundred dollars and we'll

00:36:01.293 --> 00:36:04.215
publish you up a predatory conference.

00:36:04.494 --> 00:36:05.195
Same idea,

00:36:05.255 --> 00:36:06.835
except maybe part of your conference is

00:36:06.936 --> 00:36:07.617
presenting.

00:36:08.036 --> 00:36:09.898
And then, yes, they'll do it.

00:36:10.277 --> 00:36:11.117
They're smart, though,

00:36:11.157 --> 00:36:12.458
like it's a smart business model.

00:36:12.619 --> 00:36:13.800
I know this is a problem.

00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:15.981
So what they do is they rent out

00:36:16.001 --> 00:36:17.181
a few ballrooms in Vegas,

00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:20.503
call it the science conference conference.

00:36:20.882 --> 00:36:23.264
the healthcare science conference elite of

00:36:23.364 --> 00:36:25.045
Las Vegas international.

00:36:25.586 --> 00:36:28.429
And you don't just pay for your ticket

00:36:28.449 --> 00:36:29.369
to be in the audience.

00:36:29.771 --> 00:36:30.751
You pay for your ticket to be in

00:36:30.771 --> 00:36:31.231
the audience.

00:36:31.291 --> 00:36:32.693
And then you also pay because you need

00:36:33.574 --> 00:36:34.876
so that they can put on their website

00:36:34.896 --> 00:36:35.856
that you spoke.

00:36:36.998 --> 00:36:38.278
And now that you have your credit and

00:36:38.298 --> 00:36:38.759
you're like, well,

00:36:38.778 --> 00:36:39.780
for five hundred dollars,

00:36:40.661 --> 00:36:42.202
I'm going to get my raise now because

00:36:42.262 --> 00:36:43.623
I've checked box and now I'm going to

00:36:43.643 --> 00:36:43.804
get

00:36:44.648 --> 00:36:45.288
I've checked that off.

00:36:45.347 --> 00:36:46.509
Now I'm one step closer to,

00:36:46.628 --> 00:36:47.349
I don't know, tenure.

00:36:47.429 --> 00:36:50.789
Again, not an academic, but like,

00:36:50.849 --> 00:36:51.590
it's a crappy game.

00:36:51.630 --> 00:36:52.409
But that's the game.

00:36:52.449 --> 00:36:53.530
So don't hate the player.

00:36:53.971 --> 00:36:54.670
Hate the game.

00:36:54.931 --> 00:36:56.170
But if you hate the game,

00:36:56.791 --> 00:36:59.112
pick a different game.

00:36:59.231 --> 00:37:00.813
Or help change the rules, right?

00:37:00.913 --> 00:37:01.893
Or help change the rules.

00:37:02.233 --> 00:37:02.592
Agreed.

00:37:03.474 --> 00:37:04.273
Tony Maratato's live.

00:37:05.253 --> 00:37:06.313
We just submitted to,

00:37:06.813 --> 00:37:08.195
Tony and I just submitted to speak at

00:37:08.215 --> 00:37:09.396
PPS next year.

00:37:09.795 --> 00:37:12.478
It's so odd that PPS just happened and

00:37:12.518 --> 00:37:13.938
now it's January and you have to submit.

00:37:13.958 --> 00:37:15.719
But that's how it works.

00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:18.280
It's time for AOMT.

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.182
Can I tell you about something funny that

00:37:20.262 --> 00:37:20.463
I see?

00:37:20.483 --> 00:37:21.202
Tell me.

00:37:22.043 --> 00:37:23.505
You and I have been at AOMT together.

00:37:24.125 --> 00:37:25.425
These are all great conferences, right?

00:37:26.385 --> 00:37:27.445
If you understand what you're getting out

00:37:27.465 --> 00:37:28.547
and that's what you want and that's a

00:37:28.626 --> 00:37:29.007
good agreement.

00:37:29.567 --> 00:37:31.027
I think it's funny coming from my

00:37:31.068 --> 00:37:32.068
particular background.

00:37:32.309 --> 00:37:35.291
So when you submit to AOMT or PPS,

00:37:35.311 --> 00:37:36.032
because I just did this,

00:37:36.472 --> 00:37:37.913
it's like there's three types of talks.

00:37:37.952 --> 00:37:39.793
We have like a big fancy talk,

00:37:39.833 --> 00:37:40.914
a breakout, like whatever.

00:37:41.155 --> 00:37:42.576
And they tell you each one is X

00:37:42.615 --> 00:37:43.896
amount of minutes.

00:37:44.016 --> 00:37:45.538
Yes.

00:37:45.637 --> 00:37:46.978
That is so funny to me.

00:37:48.842 --> 00:37:49.583
Here's what I mean.

00:37:49.842 --> 00:37:52.784
If Tony Meritato were the morning show

00:37:52.804 --> 00:37:54.585
host at my radio station,

00:37:54.905 --> 00:37:57.507
and I was the plucky young broadcaster who

00:37:57.527 --> 00:37:59.228
wanted to go above and beyond and get

00:37:59.268 --> 00:38:00.728
some airtime on the morning show where

00:38:00.807 --> 00:38:01.829
most listeners are,

00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:04.769
what I would do is I'd meet Tony

00:38:04.809 --> 00:38:06.010
as soon as his show is over one

00:38:06.050 --> 00:38:07.751
morning with a cup of coffee.

00:38:07.891 --> 00:38:08.831
Hey, Tony, great show.

00:38:09.172 --> 00:38:09.751
Here's your coffee.

00:38:10.313 --> 00:38:11.432
And then I go, hey,

00:38:11.452 --> 00:38:12.994
got a great idea for you tomorrow.

00:38:13.253 --> 00:38:14.253
And then I'd pitch a bit.

00:38:14.675 --> 00:38:14.775
Hey,

00:38:14.835 --> 00:38:15.875
I think we should do a thing where

00:38:15.894 --> 00:38:16.755
we do this and this,

00:38:16.775 --> 00:38:17.476
and then you could do that.

00:38:18.976 --> 00:38:22.297
Tony is deciding two things.

00:38:22.398 --> 00:38:23.478
Is the idea worth it or not?

00:38:23.498 --> 00:38:24.300
It's binary.

00:38:25.460 --> 00:38:26.681
Am I going to, is this worth,

00:38:27.001 --> 00:38:28.601
because he understands he has social

00:38:28.641 --> 00:38:29.922
capital with his audience.

00:38:30.423 --> 00:38:30.824
Same thing for,

00:38:30.983 --> 00:38:32.605
we are also talking about conferences

00:38:32.644 --> 00:38:33.286
here, right?

00:38:33.306 --> 00:38:33.666
Yes.

00:38:33.686 --> 00:38:34.405
So he decides,

00:38:34.545 --> 00:38:36.288
is this worth doing or not?

00:38:36.347 --> 00:38:37.027
Because if it's not,

00:38:37.088 --> 00:38:38.228
we could just stop talking right there.

00:38:38.969 --> 00:38:41.731
If it is, Tony, the morning show host,

00:38:41.990 --> 00:38:44.572
the conference would then tell you this

00:38:44.672 --> 00:38:46.313
idea is worth seven minutes.

00:38:46.614 --> 00:38:48.014
This idea is worth twenty.

00:38:49.096 --> 00:38:51.036
Just like SNL, right?

00:38:51.056 --> 00:38:53.679
So it's very odd to me that we

00:38:53.778 --> 00:38:56.920
pitch and the conference just goes, yeah,

00:38:56.940 --> 00:38:57.521
it's an hour.

00:38:57.621 --> 00:38:59.302
Like I've been asked to speak when we

00:38:59.322 --> 00:39:00.643
used to have national student conclave,

00:39:01.063 --> 00:39:02.644
they picked one of my ideas and they

00:39:02.664 --> 00:39:04.286
were like, that's a ninety minute talk.

00:39:04.545 --> 00:39:05.405
And I went back to them and I

00:39:05.425 --> 00:39:06.666
was like, at best,

00:39:06.827 --> 00:39:08.007
I've got forty two minutes.

00:39:09.521 --> 00:39:10.822
And they're like, can't you just stretch?

00:39:10.902 --> 00:39:11.822
And I was like, yes,

00:39:12.123 --> 00:39:14.043
I will give you a hot forty two

00:39:14.083 --> 00:39:16.405
minutes and then a shitty whatever is

00:39:16.465 --> 00:39:16.864
after that.

00:39:16.905 --> 00:39:17.606
I'm not great at math.

00:39:18.085 --> 00:39:19.726
So I said, here's a crazy idea.

00:39:19.867 --> 00:39:20.967
I know I need forty two.

00:39:21.186 --> 00:39:22.427
You said you need to fill ninety.

00:39:23.027 --> 00:39:24.648
Pick someone else.

00:39:24.748 --> 00:39:24.889
Yeah.

00:39:25.429 --> 00:39:26.990
It's just odd to me because I see

00:39:27.030 --> 00:39:27.891
it on display.

00:39:28.411 --> 00:39:30.092
You're going to Graham Sessions this week.

00:39:30.112 --> 00:39:30.152
Oh,

00:39:30.172 --> 00:39:31.213
we're going to see each other this week.

00:39:31.414 --> 00:39:32.514
This week, we're going to see each other.

00:39:32.534 --> 00:39:32.855
That's great.

00:39:32.894 --> 00:39:33.795
Are you going for sure?

00:39:33.835 --> 00:39:34.996
Yeah, I decided I'm going.

00:39:35.396 --> 00:39:38.358
So it's just funny to me because we've

00:39:38.398 --> 00:39:39.938
all been in talks and this is not

00:39:39.978 --> 00:39:40.798
knocking the speaker.

00:39:40.998 --> 00:39:41.559
Be very clear.

00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:44.320
I am knocking the game.

00:39:44.422 --> 00:39:45.121
Yeah,

00:39:45.141 --> 00:39:46.603
but as somebody who also puts on a

00:39:46.643 --> 00:39:47.382
conference, Jimmy,

00:39:47.443 --> 00:39:50.385
it is very hard to design a conference

00:39:50.405 --> 00:39:52.445
with varying time limits and things like

00:39:52.465 --> 00:39:52.585
that.

00:39:52.606 --> 00:39:53.327
Like it's hard.

00:39:53.748 --> 00:39:54.409
Oh, okay.

00:39:54.429 --> 00:39:54.969
I'm sorry.

00:39:55.710 --> 00:39:56.190
I do not.

00:39:56.490 --> 00:39:57.811
I'm just telling you, it is hard.

00:39:58.132 --> 00:40:01.355
And so if I'm making a call for

00:40:01.414 --> 00:40:02.014
submissions.

00:40:02.315 --> 00:40:02.795
Pick your heart.

00:40:03.255 --> 00:40:03.936
Go ahead.

00:40:04.056 --> 00:40:05.637
If I'm saying I would like to fill.

00:40:06.259 --> 00:40:07.880
Ninety minute slots and you're like,

00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.719
here's forty five.

00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:10.362
I'm like, did you read the instructions?

00:40:10.382 --> 00:40:11.742
And I would say, yes, yes, yes.

00:40:11.762 --> 00:40:12.182
No, no, no.

00:40:12.202 --> 00:40:13.083
Don't disagree.

00:40:13.824 --> 00:40:15.304
I needed to fill one hundred and sixty

00:40:15.326 --> 00:40:17.606
eight hours worth of radio every week.

00:40:18.148 --> 00:40:19.768
My best idea would have just been playing

00:40:20.028 --> 00:40:21.590
Stairway to Heaven because it's seven

00:40:21.630 --> 00:40:21.971
minutes.

00:40:22.951 --> 00:40:24.952
Or understand that every once in a while

00:40:24.972 --> 00:40:26.012
I play Blur Song too.

00:40:26.434 --> 00:40:27.193
What?

00:40:27.273 --> 00:40:28.235
You can have both though.

00:40:28.394 --> 00:40:29.155
I can say, Jimmy,

00:40:29.615 --> 00:40:31.016
I have ninety minutes slots available.

00:40:31.117 --> 00:40:32.478
If you don't have ninety minutes slots,

00:40:32.498 --> 00:40:34.440
don't apply.

00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:35.179
That was the thing.

00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:36.661
When you applied, it was like,

00:40:36.681 --> 00:40:37.282
do you want to speak?

00:40:37.302 --> 00:40:38.161
And I was like, absolutely.

00:40:38.181 --> 00:40:39.282
Then like, great, here's ninety.

00:40:39.322 --> 00:40:39.663
And I go,

00:40:40.184 --> 00:40:43.606
I don't have ninety on this.

00:40:43.646 --> 00:40:44.146
Here's the problem.

00:40:44.166 --> 00:40:45.067
Here's what you get, Rebecca.

00:40:45.246 --> 00:40:45.887
We've been there.

00:40:46.547 --> 00:40:48.809
We've been in a sixty minute session at

00:40:48.889 --> 00:40:51.070
minute twenty-three and you're like, oh,

00:40:51.090 --> 00:40:51.592
they got nothing.

00:40:53.018 --> 00:40:54.097
but they're going to stretch for another

00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:55.418
forty minutes.

00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:55.838
Well,

00:40:55.918 --> 00:40:57.980
and as somebody now who like makes content

00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:00.440
and makes all day, like full day content,

00:41:00.501 --> 00:41:03.081
like I now know what it takes to

00:41:03.101 --> 00:41:03.762
like fill that time.

00:41:03.822 --> 00:41:05.322
And it's harder than people think, too.

00:41:05.851 --> 00:41:07.271
That's your hard, right?

00:41:07.532 --> 00:41:09.594
And that's the difference between good and

00:41:09.634 --> 00:41:10.333
bad.

00:41:10.653 --> 00:41:12.655
That is the line, in my opinion.

00:41:12.996 --> 00:41:14.577
Tony and Dave and I do a live

00:41:14.597 --> 00:41:14.876
stream.

00:41:15.077 --> 00:41:16.998
It's an hour every Tuesday, Thursday.

00:41:17.438 --> 00:41:19.619
If we struggled to get... We do not,

00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:20.001
by the way.

00:41:20.041 --> 00:41:21.762
We wind up leaving things that don't make

00:41:21.782 --> 00:41:22.322
it on the show.

00:41:22.621 --> 00:41:24.244
But if we struggled to hit sixty,

00:41:24.503 --> 00:41:25.945
I would turn to those guys and I

00:41:26.364 --> 00:41:27.525
think they would probably turn it to me

00:41:27.565 --> 00:41:28.346
faster.

00:41:29.367 --> 00:41:30.327
Let's do thirty...

00:41:31.606 --> 00:41:34.809
leave ten minutes on the table on the

00:41:34.849 --> 00:41:36.469
cutting room floor and let's just do

00:41:36.550 --> 00:41:36.969
thirty.

00:41:36.989 --> 00:41:39.052
Maybe you guys just don't work hard

00:41:39.092 --> 00:41:39.711
enough, Jimmy.

00:41:39.891 --> 00:41:41.193
We just don't work hard enough.

00:41:41.213 --> 00:41:43.554
Nobody wants to work anymore and do a

00:41:43.574 --> 00:41:44.434
full podcast.

00:41:44.775 --> 00:41:46.476
So wait, you're going to Graham Sessions.

00:41:46.896 --> 00:41:47.717
This is foolish of me.

00:41:47.777 --> 00:41:48.978
I have not looked at the agenda.

00:41:50.057 --> 00:41:51.418
Why are you going to Graham Sessions?

00:41:51.458 --> 00:41:52.360
What do you like about it?

00:41:52.460 --> 00:41:53.840
Because a lot of people listening do not

00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:54.460
know what it is.

00:41:55.003 --> 00:41:55.362
Yeah.

00:41:55.764 --> 00:41:58.186
This year I'm going because I have gone

00:41:58.226 --> 00:42:00.867
twice and I spoke both the two times

00:42:00.887 --> 00:42:01.447
that I went.

00:42:01.568 --> 00:42:03.409
This time I'm really going to be a

00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:06.952
listener and hear things and to talk to

00:42:06.972 --> 00:42:07.293
people.

00:42:07.353 --> 00:42:08.954
And I'm really excited about the small

00:42:08.994 --> 00:42:10.916
group networking dinners and things like

00:42:10.936 --> 00:42:11.255
that too.

00:42:11.356 --> 00:42:12.097
I really enjoy that.

00:42:12.117 --> 00:42:13.878
So that's where I'm going.

00:42:14.798 --> 00:42:16.661
How do you, without looking,

00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.820
I do not want the...

00:42:18.242 --> 00:42:20.963
So Graham Sessions is a meeting put on

00:42:21.003 --> 00:42:22.826
by APTA's private practice section.

00:42:22.965 --> 00:42:23.846
That's all I'm going to say.

00:42:24.086 --> 00:42:24.606
I will not say an

00:42:26.396 --> 00:42:28.844
How do you describe it?

00:42:28.864 --> 00:42:30.047
I describe it as a day and a

00:42:30.108 --> 00:42:31.632
half of conversations.

00:42:32.436 --> 00:42:33.780
That's how I describe it.

00:42:34.501 --> 00:42:34.581
Yeah,

00:42:34.601 --> 00:42:36.724
but be more specific with about what?

00:42:36.784 --> 00:42:38.125
Like sell it.

00:42:38.164 --> 00:42:39.706
So like when I have gone in the

00:42:39.746 --> 00:42:40.327
past,

00:42:40.726 --> 00:42:43.048
there's usually a theme for the time.

00:42:43.588 --> 00:42:45.451
And then there are panels that discuss

00:42:45.550 --> 00:42:46.911
different aspects of the theme.

00:42:47.311 --> 00:42:48.393
And then between each panel,

00:42:48.413 --> 00:42:49.614
there's like a fifteen minute,

00:42:49.673 --> 00:42:51.275
almost like TED talk called the what I

00:42:51.295 --> 00:42:51.936
believe speech.

00:42:51.976 --> 00:42:53.838
And it's about the theme or it's about,

00:42:54.398 --> 00:42:55.418
you know, physical therapy.

00:42:55.458 --> 00:42:56.780
And those are usually different physical

00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:58.021
therapists who give those little

00:42:58.061 --> 00:42:58.621
presentations.

00:42:58.661 --> 00:43:00.143
I've been on a panel and I've given

00:43:00.202 --> 00:43:01.324
a what I believe speech.

00:43:02.003 --> 00:43:05.226
And the idea is for the conversations to

00:43:05.246 --> 00:43:08.489
be interesting, provocative,

00:43:08.670 --> 00:43:12.393
and authentic, I think.

00:43:12.413 --> 00:43:12.753
This year,

00:43:12.813 --> 00:43:14.936
the theme is diamonds are made under

00:43:15.016 --> 00:43:16.416
pressure.

00:43:16.536 --> 00:43:17.777
It's the juice worth the squeeze.

00:43:18.378 --> 00:43:21.641
I will be deeply disappointed if Queen is

00:43:21.701 --> 00:43:24.463
not played several times during this.

00:43:25.255 --> 00:43:25.615
Okay,

00:43:25.755 --> 00:43:28.516
I'm going to text the organizers to make

00:43:28.536 --> 00:43:29.577
sure that happens.

00:43:29.677 --> 00:43:29.936
Jimmy,

00:43:29.956 --> 00:43:31.757
I'll just follow you around with my phone

00:43:31.838 --> 00:43:33.137
and play it every time you walk in

00:43:33.157 --> 00:43:33.538
the room.

00:43:34.137 --> 00:43:35.679
So I describe it as this,

00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:36.438
and it's not a knock.

00:43:36.498 --> 00:43:37.938
I've been to Graham Sessions two or three

00:43:38.259 --> 00:43:38.798
times.

00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:43.681
It's meant to be sort of like the,

00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:45.001
because you have to be invited.

00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:48.940
And, and the rules are,

00:43:49.181 --> 00:43:50.400
I'm not actually sure what the rules are,

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.501
but this is what's whispered is you can

00:43:52.541 --> 00:43:53.943
talk about what was talked about,

00:43:53.963 --> 00:43:58.523
but you can't talk about who said it.

00:43:58.563 --> 00:43:58.744
Yes.

00:43:59.164 --> 00:44:00.304
But not people this way.

00:44:00.364 --> 00:44:02.706
People aren't like dissuaded from saying

00:44:03.246 --> 00:44:05.907
what they think and be penalized by it.

00:44:05.927 --> 00:44:06.407
Do I have that?

00:44:06.987 --> 00:44:10.228
Is that especially like if you're say

00:44:10.248 --> 00:44:12.409
you're at Graham sessions and you're like

00:44:12.449 --> 00:44:14.630
representing a company, but right.

00:44:14.996 --> 00:44:16.038
you want to make a comment as an

00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:17.601
individual and it can be really difficult

00:44:17.621 --> 00:44:18.481
for people to do that.

00:44:18.561 --> 00:44:21.826
So I think separating like you from who

00:44:21.846 --> 00:44:23.648
you work for other things like that.

00:44:23.829 --> 00:44:24.369
But frankly,

00:44:24.389 --> 00:44:26.032
I don't think I've ever heard anything

00:44:26.092 --> 00:44:27.132
where I'm like, wow, if,

00:44:27.614 --> 00:44:29.737
if somebody knew you said that, like,

00:44:30.378 --> 00:44:31.519
Yeah, I've never, I've been,

00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:32.380
I think I've been.

00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.460
I haven't experienced that.

00:44:33.501 --> 00:44:33.981
Well, I mean,

00:44:34.121 --> 00:44:35.481
I swore a lot during my speech.

00:44:35.521 --> 00:44:36.422
So maybe, I mean,

00:44:36.463 --> 00:44:38.764
maybe somebody was offended by my speech

00:44:38.804 --> 00:44:40.266
and if it had been live streamed,

00:44:40.346 --> 00:44:41.186
it would have been a problem.

00:44:41.246 --> 00:44:41.686
I don't know.

00:44:42.007 --> 00:44:42.487
You're a Muffet.

00:44:43.188 --> 00:44:45.349
So I'll be there live streaming and

00:44:45.648 --> 00:44:46.210
interviewing.

00:44:46.550 --> 00:44:48.630
I will not be live streaming the things,

00:44:48.670 --> 00:44:49.592
the talks in the room.

00:44:49.672 --> 00:44:51.452
I will not be live streaming the game.

00:44:51.932 --> 00:44:53.775
I will be live streaming every time the

00:44:53.815 --> 00:44:56.036
players walk off field and then go,

00:44:56.376 --> 00:44:56.916
would you,

00:44:56.936 --> 00:44:57.836
don't tell me who said anything.

00:44:57.856 --> 00:44:58.237
I don't care.

00:44:58.257 --> 00:44:58.898
I don't want to know.

00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:02.900
what happened in there what's the big idea

00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:04.961
like I'll probably just get three to four

00:45:05.001 --> 00:45:07.543
questions and ask twenty seven people the

00:45:07.563 --> 00:45:09.304
same three to four questions knowing I'll

00:45:09.324 --> 00:45:10.965
get twenty seven vastly different

00:45:11.005 --> 00:45:14.909
conversations so I think it's you know

00:45:14.929 --> 00:45:16.570
it's a hundred fifty people invite only

00:45:17.250 --> 00:45:19.170
it's supposed to be like macro and micro

00:45:19.472 --> 00:45:22.594
about the profession I describe it this is

00:45:22.614 --> 00:45:25.335
like the cool kids lunch table right or

00:45:25.394 --> 00:45:28.277
trying to be the cool kids lunch table

00:45:28.336 --> 00:45:28.838
in a good way

00:45:29.697 --> 00:45:30.918
historically, maybe it was like that.

00:45:30.978 --> 00:45:32.059
I feel like the last several years,

00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:33.360
they've really brought in the conversation

00:45:33.380 --> 00:45:35.121
and invited people from other tables.

00:45:35.521 --> 00:45:37.083
So I think I'm a really good example

00:45:37.103 --> 00:45:38.182
of a person from another table.

00:45:38.603 --> 00:45:40.164
I'm not really a private practice owner.

00:45:40.184 --> 00:45:41.806
I just see some concierge patients.

00:45:41.925 --> 00:45:44.146
I don't work in outpatient orthopedics.

00:45:44.547 --> 00:45:45.967
So I feel like they've really done a

00:45:45.987 --> 00:45:47.349
good job the last several years trying to

00:45:47.409 --> 00:45:49.570
invite people who aren't normally at that

00:45:49.630 --> 00:45:52.072
private practice table in to talk to

00:45:52.092 --> 00:45:54.213
people who own private practices and have

00:45:54.253 --> 00:45:54.893
conversations.

00:45:54.954 --> 00:45:57.155
So one of the things that I brought

00:45:57.195 --> 00:45:58.516
in the first time was like,

00:45:59.195 --> 00:46:00.956
This is what it's like when you see

00:46:01.016 --> 00:46:02.717
patients in the emergency department who

00:46:02.757 --> 00:46:03.317
are uninsured.

00:46:03.498 --> 00:46:04.938
This is what COVID was like in the

00:46:04.978 --> 00:46:06.699
emergency department.

00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:08.199
Two people who had no idea.

00:46:08.659 --> 00:46:10.920
This is what burnout looks like from this

00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:11.940
side of the coin, right?

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:15.621
So my presentation was called A Letter to

00:46:15.641 --> 00:46:16.402
the Status Quo.

00:46:17.161 --> 00:46:20.043
And my goal was to shake things up

00:46:20.103 --> 00:46:20.623
a little bit.

00:46:20.864 --> 00:46:21.483
And last year,

00:46:21.543 --> 00:46:25.485
my presentation was called I Believe that

00:46:25.505 --> 00:46:26.945
Physical Therapists Can Change the World,

00:46:27.326 --> 00:46:27.806
But We Won't.

00:46:29.313 --> 00:46:29.693
Ooh, okay.

00:46:30.634 --> 00:46:34.155
And you can say this about Graham Sessions

00:46:34.376 --> 00:46:35.577
because you are the person.

00:46:52.204 --> 00:46:53.567
because of the people who were in the

00:46:53.606 --> 00:46:55.911
room and their willingness to share beyond

00:46:55.951 --> 00:46:56.431
those walls.

00:46:56.592 --> 00:47:01.840
So I really like that piece of it.

00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:02.262
I don't know.

00:47:02.382 --> 00:47:03.925
I've made some really good friends through

00:47:03.945 --> 00:47:05.007
those experiences also.

00:47:05.688 --> 00:47:06.929
I also agree.

00:47:07.010 --> 00:47:08.612
The funny part is now they're doing these

00:47:08.672 --> 00:47:10.114
dinners where everybody signs up.

00:47:10.414 --> 00:47:10.974
Hopefully,

00:47:11.454 --> 00:47:13.117
you sign up for a dinner with some

00:47:13.137 --> 00:47:13.956
people you don't know.

00:47:14.237 --> 00:47:14.637
Otherwise,

00:47:14.657 --> 00:47:16.800
this is just people hanging out and that's

00:47:16.900 --> 00:47:17.320
a silo.

00:47:18.922 --> 00:47:21.025
But I've said this for the last decade,

00:47:21.065 --> 00:47:22.465
which is the best conversations happen at

00:47:22.525 --> 00:47:23.007
happy hour.

00:47:23.487 --> 00:47:23.806
Yes,

00:47:24.188 --> 00:47:26.028
which basically is the premise of Graham

00:47:26.048 --> 00:47:26.389
Sessions.

00:47:26.429 --> 00:47:27.248
This is supposed to be more like a

00:47:27.349 --> 00:47:28.210
happy hour conversation.

00:47:28.550 --> 00:47:29.311
But I'll tell you what,

00:47:29.351 --> 00:47:30.552
when I signed up for my dinner,

00:47:30.992 --> 00:47:32.592
I made sure to sign up really quickly

00:47:33.132 --> 00:47:35.375
when there wasn't anybody signed up so

00:47:35.554 --> 00:47:39.097
that I didn't do that familiar safe thing

00:47:39.376 --> 00:47:41.038
of sitting with people that I knew.

00:47:41.358 --> 00:47:43.219
So I picked the restaurant I wanted to

00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:45.521
go to and then shut it down.

00:47:45.701 --> 00:47:46.362
That's a good choice.

00:47:46.382 --> 00:47:47.402
I don't know who I'm sitting with,

00:47:47.541 --> 00:47:48.382
but I'm excited.

00:47:49.164 --> 00:47:49.965
I haven't picked anything yet.

00:47:50.184 --> 00:47:50.985
Mostly because I'm lazy.

00:47:51.164 --> 00:47:52.585
I'm also confused why I was invited.

00:47:52.606 --> 00:47:53.726
Because the funny part was I had to

00:47:53.927 --> 00:47:54.927
ask for permission.

00:47:55.228 --> 00:47:58.630
I didn't want to just start live streaming

00:47:58.690 --> 00:48:00.110
something or recording at someone else's

00:48:00.150 --> 00:48:01.072
conference without permission.

00:48:01.452 --> 00:48:02.291
But I essentially said,

00:48:02.632 --> 00:48:04.713
if I can't record or share this,

00:48:05.554 --> 00:48:06.815
I don't know what I'm doing there.

00:48:07.034 --> 00:48:08.576
Because I don't know why I'm invited in

00:48:08.596 --> 00:48:09.217
the first place.

00:48:09.757 --> 00:48:11.177
Because I'm the guy who interviews people.

00:48:11.257 --> 00:48:12.699
So I'm assuming that's it.

00:48:12.858 --> 00:48:13.699
Because I don't run a clinic.

00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:14.820
I don't work clinically.

00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:15.440
I don't teach.

00:48:15.460 --> 00:48:16.280
I don't do research.

00:48:16.681 --> 00:48:17.262
What is Jimmy?

00:48:18.438 --> 00:48:18.838
I don't know.

00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:20.480
So I was assuming this is why I

00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:20.840
was there.

00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:22.501
I did get permission to do that.

00:48:23.302 --> 00:48:24.382
As long as I stayed within the rules

00:48:24.481 --> 00:48:26.282
of people have to know that you're being

00:48:26.302 --> 00:48:26.623
interviewed.

00:48:26.663 --> 00:48:27.103
I'm like, well,

00:48:27.123 --> 00:48:28.603
I have big giant headphones with a

00:48:28.664 --> 00:48:29.425
microphone on the front.

00:48:29.945 --> 00:48:31.286
I'm going to assume that, you know,

00:48:31.365 --> 00:48:32.407
I'll start off every year.

00:48:32.507 --> 00:48:33.547
I should start like I should have a

00:48:33.586 --> 00:48:34.307
funny disclaimer.

00:48:34.867 --> 00:48:36.429
You do realize that the giant microphone

00:48:36.449 --> 00:48:37.349
you're putting in front of you is going

00:48:37.369 --> 00:48:38.449
to record everything you're about to say.

00:48:38.630 --> 00:48:39.309
Are you OK with that?

00:48:39.429 --> 00:48:39.670
Yes.

00:48:39.891 --> 00:48:41.210
Now we can begin this way.

00:48:41.590 --> 00:48:42.492
But some of the topics.

00:48:43.331 --> 00:48:45.494
Can I read the topics about that?

00:48:45.634 --> 00:48:46.233
Am I right?

00:48:46.914 --> 00:48:48.014
Well, I think... I don't know,

00:48:48.074 --> 00:48:48.514
so I won't.

00:48:49.056 --> 00:48:50.195
I don't know either, actually.

00:48:50.215 --> 00:48:51.197
I'm not going to do it.

00:48:51.597 --> 00:48:52.958
But I did ask on a poll on

00:48:52.998 --> 00:48:53.418
LinkedIn,

00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:54.980
how many of you know what the gram

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:55.840
sessions are?

00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:56.940
And I can pull up what the data

00:48:57.061 --> 00:48:57.260
is,

00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:59.123
but it was not a lot of people.

00:48:59.143 --> 00:49:00.983
Well,

00:49:01.003 --> 00:49:02.405
I would also argue there aren't a lot

00:49:02.445 --> 00:49:03.905
of people that even know there's a private

00:49:03.945 --> 00:49:04.847
practice section.

00:49:05.206 --> 00:49:05.987
Agreed.

00:49:06.146 --> 00:49:06.327
Yeah.

00:49:06.407 --> 00:49:07.989
So I don't think it's necessarily like

00:49:08.048 --> 00:49:08.688
that.

00:49:08.889 --> 00:49:09.409
Yeah.

00:49:10.771 --> 00:49:11.030
Yeah.

00:49:11.672 --> 00:49:12.032
Agreed.

00:49:12.213 --> 00:49:13.472
I think a lot of what we think

00:49:13.512 --> 00:49:18.974
is commonplace is commonplace to us only.

00:49:19.655 --> 00:49:20.835
That's why I call it the cool kids

00:49:20.855 --> 00:49:21.315
lunch table.

00:49:21.335 --> 00:49:22.414
Because when I say that,

00:49:23.135 --> 00:49:24.795
if you were at something you thought was

00:49:24.835 --> 00:49:25.936
the cool kids lunch table, you're like,

00:49:25.976 --> 00:49:26.976
oh, he's talking about me.

00:49:27.335 --> 00:49:28.295
And if you're like me,

00:49:28.376 --> 00:49:29.456
I was never at the cool kids lunch

00:49:29.476 --> 00:49:29.717
table.

00:49:30.177 --> 00:49:31.876
But I know who you're assuming because

00:49:32.177 --> 00:49:33.896
those people think that they're at the

00:49:33.916 --> 00:49:35.338
cool kids lunch table.

00:49:35.818 --> 00:49:37.338
But I'm excited.

00:49:38.018 --> 00:49:39.759
It's in Alexandria.

00:49:40.259 --> 00:49:41.318
I call it Avengers Tower.

00:49:43.074 --> 00:49:44.916
In Alexandria, APTA headquarters.

00:49:45.657 --> 00:49:46.878
What do you hope you get out of

00:49:46.958 --> 00:49:48.438
it this year?

00:49:48.659 --> 00:49:49.699
Let's define success.

00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:50.840
So we're broadcasting this on the

00:49:50.860 --> 00:49:51.541
nineteenth.

00:49:52.740 --> 00:49:53.981
What would success look like to you a

00:49:54.021 --> 00:49:55.143
week from now when it's done?

00:49:55.923 --> 00:49:58.264
I think when it's done that I would

00:49:58.364 --> 00:50:01.027
have a new perspective on the direction

00:50:01.047 --> 00:50:02.168
that the profession is going.

00:50:03.072 --> 00:50:04.313
Like I would like to hear something new.

00:50:05.713 --> 00:50:07.536
I don't want to like rehash all the

00:50:07.576 --> 00:50:08.056
problems.

00:50:08.215 --> 00:50:10.057
I would like to hear like some new

00:50:10.097 --> 00:50:12.219
solutions and feel inspired about that.

00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:14.641
And I would like to meet people that

00:50:14.721 --> 00:50:16.483
want to have the kind of conversations

00:50:16.523 --> 00:50:18.224
that I'm having about practicing at the

00:50:18.264 --> 00:50:19.005
top of their scope.

00:50:19.425 --> 00:50:22.007
So I think meeting new people and really

00:50:22.027 --> 00:50:24.829
like hearing something different.

00:50:25.230 --> 00:50:25.829
Yeah.

00:50:25.849 --> 00:50:26.990
I want to hear results.

00:50:27.090 --> 00:50:28.211
I want to hear tactics.

00:50:29.373 --> 00:50:29.632
Right.

00:50:29.992 --> 00:50:30.253
I think...

00:50:31.938 --> 00:50:33.980
My other concern is just diamonds formed

00:50:34.019 --> 00:50:34.679
under pressure.

00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:39.403
I don't want it to turn into a

00:50:39.864 --> 00:50:41.365
room where we just complain about the

00:50:41.405 --> 00:50:42.146
pressure.

00:50:42.447 --> 00:50:43.447
That's what I felt.

00:50:43.648 --> 00:50:45.148
My first year of Graham Sessions.

00:50:46.431 --> 00:50:47.913
Yeah, my first year at Graham Sessions,

00:50:48.032 --> 00:50:49.474
I literally had graduated a few months

00:50:49.494 --> 00:50:49.855
before.

00:50:49.914 --> 00:50:51.757
So I was like flattered and honored and

00:50:51.818 --> 00:50:52.818
had no expectations.

00:50:52.838 --> 00:50:53.981
I had no idea what I was doing.

00:50:54.601 --> 00:50:55.382
Steve Anderson,

00:50:55.563 --> 00:50:56.623
who was one of the founders,

00:50:56.804 --> 00:50:59.788
asked me to come and do an interview

00:50:59.807 --> 00:51:01.449
because I think then in twenty sixteen,

00:51:01.469 --> 00:51:02.271
it was their tenth year.

00:51:02.891 --> 00:51:04.713
I don't know, it was an anniversary year.

00:51:06.114 --> 00:51:07.534
And I like sort of did the founders

00:51:07.554 --> 00:51:08.396
interview on stage.

00:51:08.655 --> 00:51:10.157
So I had no preconceived notions.

00:51:10.396 --> 00:51:11.697
And then I went back again a year

00:51:11.757 --> 00:51:14.820
later and it felt the same.

00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.202
Like it felt like the same conversations

00:51:17.222 --> 00:51:18.061
with the same people.

00:51:19.342 --> 00:51:20.483
It was a bunch of this,

00:51:20.983 --> 00:51:22.545
but not like what I'd rather see is

00:51:22.585 --> 00:51:23.726
like, and oh,

00:51:23.766 --> 00:51:25.447
I suggested the second year and we did

00:51:25.487 --> 00:51:26.327
this sort of.

00:51:27.068 --> 00:51:28.590
I was like, what about Shark Tank?

00:51:29.188 --> 00:51:31.911
Because Shark Tank forced people to come

00:51:31.931 --> 00:51:33.952
up with solutions to a problem,

00:51:34.054 --> 00:51:35.474
not just don't you hate when.

00:51:35.934 --> 00:51:37.436
That's a great beginning to a pitch,

00:51:38.056 --> 00:51:38.217
right?

00:51:38.237 --> 00:51:39.237
That's a great Shark Tank pitch.

00:51:39.579 --> 00:51:40.719
Don't you hate when this?

00:51:41.139 --> 00:51:42.021
Well, we solved it.

00:51:42.081 --> 00:51:43.601
And now it's twenty one ninety nine.

00:51:43.641 --> 00:51:44.322
And hey, Mark Cuban,

00:51:44.342 --> 00:51:45.083
do you want to give me one hundred

00:51:45.103 --> 00:51:45.884
grand for ten percent?

00:51:46.485 --> 00:51:47.804
There was a lot of the first part

00:51:47.844 --> 00:51:48.806
and not all the second part.

00:51:48.925 --> 00:51:51.746
I hope Diamonds Under Pressure isn't just

00:51:52.067 --> 00:51:54.188
don't you hate when I think it's wouldn't

00:51:54.208 --> 00:51:55.108
it be great if we could put people

00:51:55.128 --> 00:51:58.168
on stage who've solved some of them in

00:51:58.289 --> 00:51:59.849
unique ways.

00:51:59.889 --> 00:52:02.269
That's tactical to me.

00:52:02.469 --> 00:52:03.630
I also would like to know, too,

00:52:03.650 --> 00:52:06.472
if there's any like this is what has

00:52:06.512 --> 00:52:07.492
come out of.

00:52:08.387 --> 00:52:10.306
this oh look at look at great bar

00:52:10.347 --> 00:52:13.007
rescue or stay with shark tank every once

00:52:13.027 --> 00:52:14.628
in a while on the episode they'll go

00:52:14.668 --> 00:52:16.648
back oh remember that thing we did three

00:52:16.668 --> 00:52:18.750
years ago this is what happened they're

00:52:18.789 --> 00:52:21.590
thriving or bar rescues is bold they go

00:52:21.969 --> 00:52:23.590
this restaurant changed back to their ways

00:52:23.610 --> 00:52:24.911
and they close their door six months later

00:52:25.891 --> 00:52:28.271
yes this is why we study history isn't

00:52:28.311 --> 00:52:29.731
it i was told so we don't repeat

00:52:29.751 --> 00:52:30.672
it or so we can learn from it

00:52:30.813 --> 00:52:32.052
do different stuff i don't know maybe

00:52:32.072 --> 00:52:34.193
that's just me uh we've got eight minutes

00:52:34.233 --> 00:52:34.914
left do you want to just do a

00:52:34.954 --> 00:52:35.534
parting shot

00:52:37.184 --> 00:52:39.226
Well, yeah, we can totally do that.

00:52:39.246 --> 00:52:40.706
Because it doesn't have to be at sixty

00:52:40.746 --> 00:52:41.367
minutes, Jimmy.

00:52:41.726 --> 00:52:42.148
It doesn't.

00:52:42.168 --> 00:52:43.387
So that's radio.

00:52:44.188 --> 00:52:45.588
I'll give you... Here's my parting shot.

00:52:45.929 --> 00:52:46.809
Here's my parting shot.

00:52:48.050 --> 00:52:49.050
When I was in radio,

00:52:49.331 --> 00:52:51.913
the rule was TBI,

00:52:52.072 --> 00:52:53.132
not traumatic brain injury.

00:52:53.293 --> 00:52:54.333
It was TBI.

00:52:54.773 --> 00:52:56.795
Tight, bright, informative.

00:52:57.434 --> 00:52:57.896
That's how...

00:52:58.036 --> 00:52:59.255
So when I turned the microphone on,

00:52:59.536 --> 00:53:00.356
my boss was not...

00:53:00.797 --> 00:53:01.577
Ninety-nine percent of the time,

00:53:01.597 --> 00:53:03.038
my boss wasn't in the room or listening

00:53:03.177 --> 00:53:03.918
when I was on the radio.

00:53:04.864 --> 00:53:05.264
So I was like,

00:53:05.324 --> 00:53:06.724
how do I know when I should talk

00:53:06.764 --> 00:53:07.706
for five seconds,

00:53:08.065 --> 00:53:10.487
fifty five seconds or five minutes?

00:53:11.327 --> 00:53:13.869
And the acronym was tight,

00:53:14.208 --> 00:53:15.230
bright and informative.

00:53:15.269 --> 00:53:16.329
And I was like, but that's not enough.

00:53:16.349 --> 00:53:17.271
I was talking to my boss.

00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:19.751
We were having this great dialogue.

00:53:19.931 --> 00:53:22.253
But how do I know what's the feeling?

00:53:22.793 --> 00:53:24.355
And he said this and it stayed with

00:53:24.414 --> 00:53:24.494
me.

00:53:25.762 --> 00:53:26.523
Jimmy, you're in that room.

00:53:26.543 --> 00:53:27.503
You're going to make that decision.

00:53:27.603 --> 00:53:27.983
I can't.

00:53:28.364 --> 00:53:29.744
It's just not scalable for you to call

00:53:29.784 --> 00:53:30.626
me and run it by me.

00:53:30.905 --> 00:53:31.226
He said,

00:53:31.586 --> 00:53:32.807
so when you think you have something worth

00:53:32.827 --> 00:53:33.347
talking about,

00:53:33.648 --> 00:53:35.769
turn the microphone on and talk.

00:53:36.690 --> 00:53:37.570
And when you're done,

00:53:38.472 --> 00:53:39.833
shut up and play some Pearl Jam.

00:53:41.094 --> 00:53:43.235
Instead of talking for the sake of

00:53:43.315 --> 00:53:43.695
filling,

00:53:44.376 --> 00:53:45.858
instead of giving someone a

00:53:55.539 --> 00:53:56.320
When appropriate.

00:53:57.041 --> 00:53:58.822
When you have something to say, say it.

00:53:58.942 --> 00:53:59.702
And when you're done,

00:54:00.362 --> 00:54:01.402
shut up and play some Pearl Jam.

00:54:01.922 --> 00:54:03.463
That's my parting shot.

00:54:03.483 --> 00:54:04.523
Are you going to play Pearl Jam at

00:54:04.543 --> 00:54:05.085
the end of this?

00:54:05.405 --> 00:54:05.724
I'll play.

00:54:05.885 --> 00:54:07.045
I can't because our live stream will get

00:54:07.065 --> 00:54:07.485
kicked off.

00:54:07.606 --> 00:54:07.826
Yeah,

00:54:08.065 --> 00:54:09.206
I'll play it in my house when we're

00:54:09.246 --> 00:54:09.367
done.

00:54:09.387 --> 00:54:10.126
What's your parting shot?

00:54:10.784 --> 00:54:12.226
I think because we were talking about

00:54:12.286 --> 00:54:14.266
nobody wants to work anymore and nobody

00:54:14.286 --> 00:54:15.148
wants to work hard.

00:54:15.487 --> 00:54:17.668
I think my parting shot is why, like,

00:54:17.728 --> 00:54:19.210
why don't people want to ask them?

00:54:19.250 --> 00:54:21.130
Why, why is what, what,

00:54:21.371 --> 00:54:22.331
what is the problem?

00:54:22.711 --> 00:54:23.753
Because I don't think it's that people

00:54:23.773 --> 00:54:25.052
don't want to work hard anymore.

00:54:25.173 --> 00:54:26.253
I think it's that people don't know what

00:54:26.293 --> 00:54:27.295
they're working hard for.

00:54:27.974 --> 00:54:29.016
And I think there has to be a

00:54:29.076 --> 00:54:29.755
reason there.

00:54:29.936 --> 00:54:30.096
I mean,

00:54:30.115 --> 00:54:32.038
like I work very hard as an independent

00:54:32.077 --> 00:54:34.059
business owner because I'm deeply

00:54:34.099 --> 00:54:35.179
committed to what I'm doing.

00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:37.760
But if people aren't asked them why and

00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.262
give them a mission to be committed to,

00:54:40.121 --> 00:54:40.920
It could be like, why?

00:54:40.981 --> 00:54:42.561
Because you should grow and that'll help

00:54:42.601 --> 00:54:43.262
you in your career.

00:54:43.442 --> 00:54:43.702
Great.

00:54:43.922 --> 00:54:44.262
Why?

00:54:44.802 --> 00:54:45.023
Well,

00:54:45.322 --> 00:54:47.103
because the answer should be because

00:54:47.163 --> 00:54:48.623
eventually that will return to you.

00:54:49.164 --> 00:54:50.623
You will get more than you gave.

00:54:51.644 --> 00:54:53.284
If you tell me for every dollar I

00:54:53.304 --> 00:54:54.284
put in, I'm going to get three.

00:54:54.704 --> 00:54:55.465
Trust me, my man,

00:54:55.606 --> 00:54:57.425
I'm going to give you lots of dollars.

00:54:58.025 --> 00:54:59.527
If that is unclear,

00:55:00.387 --> 00:55:01.467
I don't give you any dollars.

00:55:01.967 --> 00:55:03.547
Confused people don't.

00:55:04.347 --> 00:55:06.469
So why aren't people working hard?

00:55:06.789 --> 00:55:09.090
Maybe it's confused people.

00:55:10.065 --> 00:55:10.365
Don't.

00:55:11.106 --> 00:55:12.567
Rebecca Griffith is the EDDPT.

00:55:12.646 --> 00:55:15.128
You can find her everywhere, the EDDPT.

00:55:16.148 --> 00:55:19.070
When's your next speaking engagement?

00:55:19.090 --> 00:55:19.650
CSM.

00:55:19.771 --> 00:55:21.992
I've got two presentations and a poster at

00:55:22.052 --> 00:55:22.672
CSM.

00:55:23.672 --> 00:55:25.153
We need to get on your podcast to

00:55:25.213 --> 00:55:26.494
talk about our presentation.

00:55:26.534 --> 00:55:27.496
So I'm going to tell you one of

00:55:27.516 --> 00:55:28.996
them, managing the unmanageable,

00:55:29.476 --> 00:55:30.817
eight holes of the emergency department.

00:55:32.538 --> 00:55:33.159
I can't wait.

00:55:33.278 --> 00:55:34.298
I'm so excited about that.

00:55:34.378 --> 00:55:35.860
And then hands-on in the hospital,

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.121
manual therapy and acute care.

00:55:38.166 --> 00:55:39.806
Uh, Tony and Drew Cruz.

00:55:39.827 --> 00:55:40.668
Thanks for listening in.

00:55:40.788 --> 00:55:42.028
I will see you later this week at

00:55:42.068 --> 00:55:42.748
Graham sessions.

00:55:42.849 --> 00:55:44.150
I have a feeling we'll be live streaming

00:55:44.170 --> 00:55:44.889
from there as well.

00:55:45.351 --> 00:55:46.170
Uh, Rebecca.

00:55:47.771 --> 00:55:48.873
That's it for this one.

00:55:49.132 --> 00:55:50.773
We're just getting warmed up.

00:55:51.275 --> 00:55:52.135
Smash, follow,

00:55:52.195 --> 00:55:54.016
send it to a friend or crank up

00:55:54.056 --> 00:55:55.036
the next episode.

00:55:55.577 --> 00:55:56.557
Want to go deeper?

00:55:56.797 --> 00:56:00.800
It is at PG podcast.com or find us

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.583
on YouTube and socials at PG podcast.

00:56:04.003 --> 00:56:06.264
And legally, none of this was advice.

00:56:06.344 --> 00:56:07.965
It's for entertainment purposes only.

00:56:09.733 --> 00:56:10.396
See, Keith?

00:56:10.536 --> 00:56:11.621
We read the script.

00:56:11.902 --> 00:56:12.545
Happy now?