Mastering Soft Skills for Better Patient Outcomes

WEBVTT0:00:00.529 --> 0:00:01.490We don't have to because0:00:01.550 --> 0:00:03.531conversation trumps presentation.0:00:06.091 --> 0:00:10.273All right, Mike, finally, welcome.0:00:10.374 --> 0:00:11.153Welcome to the show.0:00:11.234 --> 0:00:12.195I appreciate your time.0:00:12.695 --> 0:00:13.335Happy to be here.0:00:13.414 --> 0:00:14.455I appreciate your time as well.0:00:14.869 --> 0:00:17.050What what people don't often know is like,0:00:17.071 --> 0:00:17.271you know,0:00:17.291 --> 0:00:18.792they hear the moment of us talking.0:00:18.832 --> 0:00:19.751What they don't know is, you know,0:00:19.771 --> 0:00:20.771the emails and the text0:00:20.812 --> 0:00:21.832messages back and forth.0:00:21.873 --> 0:00:22.972So and I was saying this to0:00:22.992 --> 0:00:24.074Mike before he hit record is like,0:00:24.173 --> 0:00:25.353I rarely need to say no to0:00:25.393 --> 0:00:26.394an interview because I set0:00:26.434 --> 0:00:28.315my calendar up and I give0:00:28.355 --> 0:00:29.975the guest a time to choose0:00:29.995 --> 0:00:30.736when they're free.0:00:31.196 --> 0:00:31.315Yeah.0:00:31.417 --> 0:00:32.396And then life happens.0:00:32.716 --> 0:00:35.018So I'd say like five out of0:00:35.058 --> 0:00:36.619a hundred times I got to0:00:36.679 --> 0:00:38.021change or cancel.0:00:38.521 --> 0:00:39.381Unless when I do,0:00:39.421 --> 0:00:41.664then it's like one person five times.0:00:41.743 --> 0:00:42.585And Mike was that guy.0:00:42.604 --> 0:00:44.345So it's been a while,0:00:44.387 --> 0:00:46.268but I'm excited to talk.0:00:46.787 --> 0:00:47.149We're here.0:00:47.228 --> 0:00:48.750It just makes the experience0:00:48.770 --> 0:00:49.970that much better that we've0:00:50.011 --> 0:00:51.031been anticipating it.0:00:51.414 --> 0:00:52.094Ramping it up.0:00:53.255 --> 0:00:54.737So we got a lot to get into.0:00:54.817 --> 0:00:56.158You've done a lot of different things.0:00:56.298 --> 0:00:58.079First of all, you've been a clinician,0:00:58.579 --> 0:01:00.481educator, clinical researcher.0:01:00.500 --> 0:01:01.301So you're sort of touching0:01:01.401 --> 0:01:03.482on clinical practice, education, research,0:01:03.662 --> 0:01:06.265which is a decent part of our profession.0:01:06.584 --> 0:01:08.887And you've been doing it for three decades,0:01:09.326 --> 0:01:11.248really focused on the0:01:11.349 --> 0:01:13.790neurologic and the older adult population,0:01:13.829 --> 0:01:15.932geriatric population in our profession.0:01:15.951 --> 0:01:16.132Yeah.0:01:16.652 --> 0:01:16.772Um,0:01:17.233 --> 0:01:20.155so that is a long time working in a0:01:20.234 --> 0:01:23.397specific area, but, but breath, like,0:01:23.638 --> 0:01:23.817you know,0:01:23.878 --> 0:01:25.718you can kind of go wide with education,0:01:25.759 --> 0:01:27.079clinical practice and0:01:27.140 --> 0:01:27.960research and you kind of0:01:27.980 --> 0:01:28.740can have a finger,0:01:28.801 --> 0:01:29.682you can have a hand in a0:01:29.742 --> 0:01:30.442lot of different things.0:01:31.602 --> 0:01:33.063I wanted to go narrow first.0:01:33.405 --> 0:01:33.504Okay.0:01:33.525 --> 0:01:36.027Let's talk about dual tasking, right?0:01:36.046 --> 0:01:36.206Right.0:01:36.846 --> 0:01:38.567dual tasking is I'm I don't0:01:38.587 --> 0:01:39.287know about you mike but0:01:39.347 --> 0:01:40.289right now I got my phone my0:01:40.328 --> 0:01:41.269laptop my thing and I'm0:01:41.308 --> 0:01:42.168having a conversation but0:01:42.188 --> 0:01:43.430I'm watching my watch so0:01:43.469 --> 0:01:44.650I'm doing a lot of things0:01:44.909 --> 0:01:46.590yeah my guess is you could0:01:46.631 --> 0:01:47.792explain why I'm not0:01:47.871 --> 0:01:48.831actually doing those things0:01:48.951 --> 0:01:51.793well it's multi-doing so0:01:51.832 --> 0:01:52.653how can therapists0:01:52.993 --> 0:01:54.373effectively apply dual0:01:54.414 --> 0:01:55.655tasking to make therapy0:01:56.295 --> 0:01:58.195therapeutic and also maybe even fun0:01:58.766 --> 0:01:59.486Yeah, that's great.0:01:59.865 --> 0:02:01.046So first off,0:02:01.346 --> 0:02:04.087let's define dual tasking and0:02:04.126 --> 0:02:04.947let's understand that0:02:05.227 --> 0:02:06.628basically it is the0:02:06.748 --> 0:02:08.807simultaneous operation of0:02:08.948 --> 0:02:10.048two different things you're0:02:10.087 --> 0:02:12.468doing that could be done separately.0:02:13.528 --> 0:02:14.649And if you just start it and0:02:14.688 --> 0:02:15.688stop it right there,0:02:16.568 --> 0:02:18.810then that gives us a good framework.0:02:18.930 --> 0:02:21.129Those are measurable tasks0:02:21.169 --> 0:02:22.651that are clearly discrete0:02:22.711 --> 0:02:24.811that could be done separately, meaning0:02:26.282 --> 0:02:28.926If I'm carrying a backpack across a room,0:02:29.709 --> 0:02:30.689that's actually just a0:02:30.750 --> 0:02:32.032single task because the0:02:32.073 --> 0:02:33.294backpack doesn't get across0:02:33.335 --> 0:02:35.038there unless I'm walking, okay?0:02:35.497 --> 0:02:36.300That's a single task.0:02:36.780 --> 0:02:38.223But if while I'm walking,0:02:38.242 --> 0:02:39.344I take the backpack off,0:02:40.259 --> 0:02:41.441and I'm still walking and I0:02:41.501 --> 0:02:42.661unzip it and grab a water0:02:42.700 --> 0:02:44.442bottle out of it, now I'm at dual task.0:02:44.542 --> 0:02:45.421So if we just start with0:02:45.461 --> 0:02:46.883that as a framework,0:02:46.983 --> 0:02:48.443not everything that's being0:02:48.483 --> 0:02:50.163done walking while carrying0:02:50.223 --> 0:02:53.004something is a dual task because in fact,0:02:53.085 --> 0:02:54.205it's just in the background.0:02:54.246 --> 0:02:56.167You're not actually interacting with it.0:02:56.866 --> 0:02:58.948You mentioned you were multitasking.0:02:59.328 --> 0:03:00.908So multitasking is different0:03:00.949 --> 0:03:01.889than dual tasking because0:03:01.929 --> 0:03:03.288it's more than two things.0:03:04.270 --> 0:03:06.311And now let's get into your question.0:03:07.218 --> 0:03:09.127How can therapists utilize it?0:03:09.288 --> 0:03:11.860Well, the very succinct answer is this.0:03:13.114 --> 0:03:16.534Dual tasking is done throughout our lives,0:03:16.634 --> 0:03:18.556so we need to expose our patients to it.0:03:18.876 --> 0:03:19.695That's one thing.0:03:20.195 --> 0:03:21.497And the second thing is it0:03:21.537 --> 0:03:22.637can be an extremely0:03:22.697 --> 0:03:24.937efficient way in for us to0:03:25.098 --> 0:03:26.217learn something for the0:03:26.258 --> 0:03:28.459first time or relearn it0:03:28.718 --> 0:03:30.579over again because we take0:03:30.718 --> 0:03:31.860our conscious attention0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.281away from it and learn the automaticity,0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.181what we call the procedural memory,0:03:36.621 --> 0:03:38.361the movement in the background, the0:03:39.362 --> 0:03:39.622You know,0:03:39.763 --> 0:03:41.366I could do that with my eyes closed,0:03:41.406 --> 0:03:42.168the motor memory,0:03:42.268 --> 0:03:43.349all those terms that we0:03:43.409 --> 0:03:44.872used to use for it by0:03:44.991 --> 0:03:46.474subjecting you to a0:03:46.514 --> 0:03:47.616constraint where I've taken0:03:47.657 --> 0:03:48.557my attention away.0:03:48.979 --> 0:03:50.521You can help somebody learn it better.0:03:52.110 --> 0:03:52.991and this is different.0:03:53.170 --> 0:03:54.412I heard somebody in0:03:54.451 --> 0:03:55.533psychology use the term0:03:55.593 --> 0:03:57.254multi doing like we think0:03:57.275 --> 0:03:59.016we're asking a lot, right?0:03:59.056 --> 0:04:01.278I'm getting so much done, but I mean,0:04:01.539 --> 0:04:01.800you know,0:04:02.139 --> 0:04:04.361and I work a lot in creating things,0:04:04.443 --> 0:04:05.984sounds, pictures, videos, whatever.0:04:06.985 --> 0:04:08.606And while I'm rendering a video,0:04:08.646 --> 0:04:09.568I'm saving a video.0:04:09.608 --> 0:04:09.807Okay.0:04:09.948 --> 0:04:10.949I got like three minutes.0:04:10.968 --> 0:04:12.251Let me do something else.0:04:12.610 --> 0:04:14.473And I wind up spinning around.0:04:14.712 --> 0:04:14.992So I'm,0:04:15.774 --> 0:04:16.956You know, I've heard the phrase,0:04:17.036 --> 0:04:18.418I think it was an old hockey coach,0:04:18.757 --> 0:04:19.218and he said,0:04:19.298 --> 0:04:20.841it's like a monkey humping a football.0:04:20.860 --> 0:04:22.101There's a lot moving around,0:04:22.142 --> 0:04:23.423but not a whole lot happening.0:04:24.384 --> 0:04:25.187That's beautiful.0:04:25.706 --> 0:04:27.348And it's easy to talk about0:04:27.389 --> 0:04:29.512that because the reality, Jimmy,0:04:29.651 --> 0:04:31.033is now you're talking about0:04:31.153 --> 0:04:32.636task switching.0:04:33.247 --> 0:04:34.769Yeah, that's different.0:04:34.809 --> 0:04:36.050So that is what we talk0:04:36.089 --> 0:04:40.392about in the field of dual tasking.0:04:40.793 --> 0:04:42.613We are simultaneous.0:04:43.475 --> 0:04:44.795But in multitasking,0:04:45.235 --> 0:04:46.576we're keeping this plate up,0:04:46.757 --> 0:04:47.838forgetting about that plate,0:04:47.898 --> 0:04:48.778keeping that plate up,0:04:48.918 --> 0:04:50.178forgetting about that plate up,0:04:50.439 --> 0:04:51.740keeping that plate spinning.0:04:52.321 --> 0:04:53.641So it's task switching.0:04:53.781 --> 0:04:53.901Now,0:04:53.961 --> 0:04:56.744people can become very good at task0:04:56.803 --> 0:04:57.244switching,0:04:57.663 --> 0:04:59.144but it's not a good environment0:04:59.245 --> 0:05:00.586to learn something in.0:05:01.026 --> 0:05:02.968So dual tasking is a great environment.0:05:03.668 --> 0:05:05.908If it's not a brand new novel task for you,0:05:05.968 --> 0:05:07.170it's a great environment to0:05:07.310 --> 0:05:08.550learn something in.0:05:08.870 --> 0:05:10.911But multitasking can be done,0:05:10.971 --> 0:05:12.632but it's not a good learning environment.0:05:13.293 --> 0:05:14.293That's the big difference.0:05:14.752 --> 0:05:14.932All right.0:05:14.952 --> 0:05:16.134So how do you know when0:05:16.153 --> 0:05:18.514because you worked with, you know,0:05:18.535 --> 0:05:19.795we mentioned neural population.0:05:20.315 --> 0:05:21.115How do you know when it's0:05:21.136 --> 0:05:23.416good to go from one to two0:05:23.557 --> 0:05:25.197to one to more than one?0:05:25.257 --> 0:05:26.879How do you where's that tipping point?0:05:27.252 --> 0:05:28.553Yeah, that's beautiful.0:05:28.634 --> 0:05:29.875And that's where the science0:05:29.956 --> 0:05:31.216is really coming along0:05:31.297 --> 0:05:33.218nicely right now is you use measurements.0:05:34.059 --> 0:05:36.000So you use a timed up and go.0:05:36.141 --> 0:05:37.362It took you 14 seconds.0:05:37.682 --> 0:05:39.464You do a cognitive timed up and go,0:05:39.545 --> 0:05:41.446which is doing the timed up0:05:41.485 --> 0:05:44.428and go and subtracting by serial threes,0:05:44.428 --> 0:05:45.629101, 98, 95 seconds.0:05:47.651 --> 0:05:51.774And if you see an exorbitant0:05:51.894 --> 0:05:53.394difference between those two,0:05:53.975 --> 0:05:55.156then we know we've got0:05:55.216 --> 0:05:56.396somebody that needs this,0:05:57.016 --> 0:05:58.916but are they actually0:05:59.057 --> 0:06:00.658therapeutically benefiting0:06:00.718 --> 0:06:02.119because it is completely0:06:02.178 --> 0:06:03.899destroying their psyche?0:06:04.019 --> 0:06:05.720Oh, my gosh, I'm terrible at this.0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.100I'll never get good at this.0:06:07.540 --> 0:06:07.800You know,0:06:07.860 --> 0:06:09.642so you look at it by dosage and0:06:09.682 --> 0:06:11.944you look at it truly objectively.0:06:12.305 --> 0:06:13.406Does this person need it?0:06:14.166 --> 0:06:16.129And are they making improvements?0:06:16.509 --> 0:06:17.250My intervention?0:06:17.471 --> 0:06:17.571Oh,0:06:17.651 --> 0:06:19.752now that differential between the0:06:19.812 --> 0:06:21.274single and dual is shrinking.0:06:21.454 --> 0:06:22.055They're improving.0:06:22.274 --> 0:06:23.495Now I know I'm on to something.0:06:23.797 --> 0:06:25.617And you can apply this, you know, you know,0:06:25.658 --> 0:06:26.459I was asking because your0:06:26.478 --> 0:06:27.459background is older adults0:06:27.500 --> 0:06:28.480and neurologic population.0:06:28.521 --> 0:06:29.382But, you know,0:06:29.401 --> 0:06:30.903I'm just thinking pretty much everywhere.0:06:30.963 --> 0:06:32.524Pediatrics, sports, where couldn't you?0:06:33.137 --> 0:06:34.117Yeah, absolutely.0:06:34.158 --> 0:06:37.040So I'm a self-described Jerry athlete.0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.502I'm into my mid-50s and well into them.0:06:40.221 --> 0:06:41.963And I also apply those0:06:42.444 --> 0:06:44.305matters to myself when I'm0:06:44.365 --> 0:06:45.346playing pickleball,0:06:45.526 --> 0:06:47.706when I'm doing triathlon, et cetera.0:06:48.088 --> 0:06:51.029So it belongs well in that realm.0:06:51.470 --> 0:06:53.370Let me just make a couple of quick points.0:06:53.752 --> 0:06:56.653Steph Curry, who we most all of us know,0:06:56.733 --> 0:06:57.875but for the listening audience,0:06:57.894 --> 0:06:58.254I'll tell you,0:06:58.894 --> 0:07:00.036one of the most highly paid0:07:00.096 --> 0:07:01.237basketball players in the0:07:01.297 --> 0:07:02.678National Basketball Association,0:07:02.838 --> 0:07:05.281is not the fastest, not the tallest,0:07:05.901 --> 0:07:07.622not the best at almost anything,0:07:07.682 --> 0:07:08.944but he dual tasks before0:07:09.004 --> 0:07:09.884every game because he0:07:09.925 --> 0:07:11.526dribbles two basketballs0:07:11.586 --> 0:07:12.947and exchanges them between hands,0:07:13.007 --> 0:07:14.228between legs, behind the back.0:07:14.629 --> 0:07:15.329Why does he do that?0:07:15.750 --> 0:07:17.271He does that so that he can0:07:17.370 --> 0:07:18.812actually make his handling0:07:18.851 --> 0:07:20.254of one ball in the game0:07:20.874 --> 0:07:22.615completely automatic so that0:07:22.656 --> 0:07:24.096he can make you think he's0:07:24.117 --> 0:07:25.737dribbling in he backs up0:07:26.017 --> 0:07:27.860and drains a three ball and0:07:27.899 --> 0:07:29.360if I'm only six foot four0:07:29.420 --> 0:07:30.641in the nba or six foot0:07:30.701 --> 0:07:32.384three I need to somehow0:07:32.444 --> 0:07:33.584create an open shot dual0:07:33.625 --> 0:07:35.466tasking goes there dual0:07:35.485 --> 0:07:36.846tasking goes into simone0:07:36.906 --> 0:07:38.809biles losing the twisties0:07:39.209 --> 0:07:40.470and improving her ability0:07:40.509 --> 0:07:42.591to do gymnastics because it0:07:42.632 --> 0:07:43.713becomes automatic again0:07:44.093 --> 0:07:45.134The more I think about it,0:07:45.494 --> 0:07:46.774the less automatic it is,0:07:46.855 --> 0:07:49.396and I find myself 17 feet off the air,0:07:49.797 --> 0:07:50.476and I'm thinking about0:07:50.716 --> 0:07:51.718turning my right arm in.0:07:52.017 --> 0:07:53.959So it applies everywhere.0:07:54.238 --> 0:07:55.660The most widely studied0:07:55.740 --> 0:07:58.041element for fall risk is0:07:58.382 --> 0:07:59.401does someone have the0:07:59.442 --> 0:08:00.622capacity to dual task?0:08:01.423 --> 0:08:02.283Because as you mentioned,0:08:02.324 --> 0:08:03.725this is going to come up in0:08:04.625 --> 0:08:05.586almost everything.0:08:05.665 --> 0:08:06.627Very rarely are we just0:08:06.666 --> 0:08:07.846doing just move the0:08:07.867 --> 0:08:08.867backpack across the room.0:08:08.887 --> 0:08:09.788We're always sort of doing0:08:09.809 --> 0:08:10.348the second thing.0:08:10.824 --> 0:08:11.464It is our life.0:08:11.564 --> 0:08:13.084Whether we subject ourselves0:08:13.185 --> 0:08:15.685to texting while on the phone or not,0:08:15.766 --> 0:08:17.425there's going to be the dog,0:08:17.526 --> 0:08:20.266the grandchild, the jeopardy question,0:08:21.567 --> 0:08:22.406whatever that's going to0:08:22.427 --> 0:08:24.208dual task people in their lives.0:08:24.608 --> 0:08:26.288And if we don't subject our0:08:26.327 --> 0:08:28.149patients to this,0:08:29.069 --> 0:08:31.088let's just say forced use experience,0:08:31.149 --> 0:08:33.190I can circle back to that, then who is?0:08:33.350 --> 0:08:34.870Then they're going to be left with,0:08:35.230 --> 0:08:36.289I can walk beautifully at0:08:36.330 --> 0:08:37.210the rehab center.0:08:37.730 --> 0:08:39.410And why can't I walk here at the house?0:08:40.345 --> 0:08:42.427I need to go back to rehab, you know?0:08:43.126 --> 0:08:44.067So talk about forced use.0:08:44.908 --> 0:08:45.408Forced use.0:08:45.729 --> 0:08:46.830So basically you can think0:08:46.870 --> 0:08:47.811about this in terms of0:08:47.951 --> 0:08:50.152forced use or constraint induced.0:08:50.472 --> 0:08:51.133Think about this.0:08:51.854 --> 0:08:53.054If I'm a person with stroke0:08:53.475 --> 0:08:54.875and I have a person0:08:54.895 --> 0:08:56.876recovering from stroke and0:08:56.937 --> 0:08:59.038I have an intact left arm,0:08:59.479 --> 0:09:00.899but my right arm is impaired,0:09:00.980 --> 0:09:01.441what do we do?0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.162A lot of times we use a0:09:03.241 --> 0:09:04.643sling and we put it around0:09:04.682 --> 0:09:05.663the less impaired arm.0:09:06.124 --> 0:09:07.024What I'm doing with dual0:09:07.044 --> 0:09:08.225tasking is I'm putting a0:09:08.306 --> 0:09:09.726sling around your attention and0:09:10.436 --> 0:09:10.917And I'm saying,0:09:11.116 --> 0:09:12.177you can't use your attention.0:09:12.898 --> 0:09:13.519You have to,0:09:13.639 --> 0:09:15.280your attention's busy over here.0:09:15.701 --> 0:09:19.344So your brain in the arenas that process,0:09:19.725 --> 0:09:21.405how do I do a task without0:09:21.466 --> 0:09:22.167thinking about it?0:09:22.567 --> 0:09:24.028Those centers have to operate,0:09:24.068 --> 0:09:25.769which means my basal ganglia,0:09:25.971 --> 0:09:28.192my cerebellum, my premotor cortex,0:09:28.572 --> 0:09:29.953my supplementary motor cortex,0:09:30.434 --> 0:09:31.655those four areas,0:09:31.716 --> 0:09:32.336those are called our0:09:32.355 --> 0:09:33.336procedural memory centers.0:09:33.476 --> 0:09:34.759They take over because I'm0:09:34.859 --> 0:09:35.799forced to take over.0:09:36.735 --> 0:09:38.357If your mind's busy elsewhere,0:09:38.437 --> 0:09:40.360you can't be thinking heel strike,0:09:40.961 --> 0:09:42.562single point cane, right leg,0:09:42.743 --> 0:09:43.222heel strike.0:09:43.283 --> 0:09:44.344Don't let your knee snap back.0:09:44.644 --> 0:09:45.966And if you get caught up in that,0:09:46.105 --> 0:09:47.548you can't actually relearn0:09:47.587 --> 0:09:49.950how to walk again and make it automatic.0:09:51.111 --> 0:09:53.634And being able to educate0:09:53.693 --> 0:09:55.596and communicate some of those things,0:09:55.677 --> 0:09:56.216I mean, gosh,0:09:56.236 --> 0:09:57.097I'm thinking back to some of0:09:57.118 --> 0:09:58.639my clinical affiliations as a student.0:09:59.301 --> 0:10:00.942You watch a really great clinician,0:10:00.982 --> 0:10:03.326they use five words, and a student,0:10:03.485 --> 0:10:05.749I'll just call myself, will use 25 words,0:10:05.769 --> 0:10:06.610and I should be better,0:10:06.629 --> 0:10:07.912because I have five times the words.0:10:07.932 --> 0:10:09.693It's actually, it's the opposite.0:10:10.235 --> 0:10:11.816Yes, yeah, that is true.0:10:12.216 --> 0:10:13.298The when we cue...0:10:14.176 --> 0:10:16.216The how we cue, the how much we cue,0:10:16.256 --> 0:10:17.417and the how frequently we cue.0:10:17.456 --> 0:10:18.878We all know that's well0:10:18.957 --> 0:10:20.138studied in motor learning.0:10:20.739 --> 0:10:21.979And what we want to elevate0:10:22.078 --> 0:10:24.120up to is not0:10:24.740 --> 0:10:27.321unintentionally distracting people,0:10:27.900 --> 0:10:30.001but intentionally distracting them.0:10:30.503 --> 0:10:31.523And there's a nice thing0:10:31.562 --> 0:10:33.443that you brought into this, Jimmy, is0:10:34.443 --> 0:10:36.745Letting the patient, the person know,0:10:37.365 --> 0:10:38.785I'm going to intentionally0:10:38.846 --> 0:10:40.626distract you on this trial.0:10:41.327 --> 0:10:43.229Try to see how well you can0:10:43.308 --> 0:10:45.070do in comparison to your0:10:45.110 --> 0:10:46.169performance when I wasn't0:10:46.190 --> 0:10:46.950distracting you.0:10:47.431 --> 0:10:49.371I expect it to be lower.0:10:50.552 --> 0:10:51.673And when you tell them,0:10:51.972 --> 0:10:53.813I expect this to be more difficult,0:10:54.274 --> 0:10:57.456then at least they know what you're doing,0:10:57.816 --> 0:10:58.716why you're doing it.0:10:58.897 --> 0:11:00.037I'm doing it so that you can0:11:00.076 --> 0:11:01.518be prepared to do this at home.0:11:02.269 --> 0:11:03.010And what happens?0:11:03.291 --> 0:11:03.611Okay,0:11:03.731 --> 0:11:05.113their performance went down a little bit.0:11:05.212 --> 0:11:06.674They're not dejected by it,0:11:07.034 --> 0:11:07.956but maybe their performance0:11:07.996 --> 0:11:09.038stayed equally as good as0:11:09.077 --> 0:11:09.818their single task.0:11:09.979 --> 0:11:10.639They think, great,0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:11.961but maybe their performance0:11:12.020 --> 0:11:13.543went up and they think, wow,0:11:13.602 --> 0:11:14.744I fooled my therapist.0:11:15.004 --> 0:11:15.664Hey, grandson,0:11:15.705 --> 0:11:17.086guess what I did today in therapy?0:11:17.495 --> 0:11:17.735Right.0:11:17.855 --> 0:11:19.395I mean, that's that's so it's so true.0:11:19.436 --> 0:11:19.655Right.0:11:19.777 --> 0:11:21.177Which which is I mean,0:11:21.216 --> 0:11:22.138I guess we just learn this0:11:22.158 --> 0:11:23.438about ourselves and we can use it.0:11:24.178 --> 0:11:25.340You mentioned being a triathlete.0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.562And I read a lot because I'm0:11:27.581 --> 0:11:28.883a I like triathlon because0:11:28.923 --> 0:11:29.982it allows me to be mediocre0:11:30.003 --> 0:11:31.063at three things in one day.0:11:31.124 --> 0:11:32.485And I like my efficient mediocrity.0:11:33.426 --> 0:11:35.948But it's how many times when0:11:36.068 --> 0:11:37.471your coach or your plan0:11:37.551 --> 0:11:39.472says this is an easy day, you go harder.0:11:39.493 --> 0:11:41.336And when it's a hard day, you go easier.0:11:41.395 --> 0:11:41.895It's like, wait,0:11:41.936 --> 0:11:42.677why don't you just do0:11:42.697 --> 0:11:44.058what's actually on the script?0:11:44.099 --> 0:11:46.000And that's just how some of0:11:46.081 --> 0:11:48.144us are wired for some reason.0:11:48.543 --> 0:11:48.825Yeah.0:11:49.065 --> 0:11:49.764Yeah, and that's right.0:11:49.784 --> 0:11:50.985The psychological0:11:51.105 --> 0:11:53.567expectations for what you,0:11:53.647 --> 0:11:54.628and this is the analogy0:11:54.648 --> 0:11:56.249that you're clearly calling in here,0:11:56.769 --> 0:11:58.429setting someone up for0:11:58.490 --> 0:12:00.291appropriate psychological expectations,0:12:00.410 --> 0:12:02.412if they exceed them, they feel great.0:12:02.772 --> 0:12:06.014If they're below or lowered0:12:06.073 --> 0:12:08.174psychological expectations,0:12:08.235 --> 0:12:09.115if they meet those,0:12:09.134 --> 0:12:10.015then they're not dejected.0:12:10.336 --> 0:12:11.496We don't want our patients0:12:11.537 --> 0:12:13.798to feel that therapy is0:12:13.857 --> 0:12:15.818just the reminder of what you can't do.0:12:16.466 --> 0:12:17.606And that's the problem with0:12:17.626 --> 0:12:18.927a lot of patient engagement.0:12:19.246 --> 0:12:19.927Right, right.0:12:20.347 --> 0:12:21.967All right, let's switch topics,0:12:22.008 --> 0:12:22.788but not really.0:12:23.068 --> 0:12:24.750So behavioral economics is0:12:24.909 --> 0:12:25.690super fascinating.0:12:25.769 --> 0:12:28.010I love reading Adam Grant0:12:28.410 --> 0:12:30.052and a lot of the writers.0:12:30.932 --> 0:12:31.592I don't think I would have0:12:31.633 --> 0:12:32.472picked it as a really0:12:32.812 --> 0:12:33.953interesting topic because0:12:33.994 --> 0:12:34.994the name doesn't sound it,0:12:35.033 --> 0:12:36.715but what they start talking about is.0:12:36.794 --> 0:12:37.634So it's really fascinating.0:12:38.115 --> 0:12:38.875So how can we use,0:12:38.916 --> 0:12:40.836there's concepts in there like nudge,0:12:41.136 --> 0:12:43.758gamification, confirmation bias.0:12:44.418 --> 0:12:45.719in physical therapy to sort0:12:45.739 --> 0:12:46.658of bring those in to0:12:46.698 --> 0:12:48.279enhance the patient engagement.0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:49.480We're paying attention to0:12:49.541 --> 0:12:50.741people and we can use these0:12:50.802 --> 0:12:52.182concepts in different ways0:12:52.523 --> 0:12:53.803to actually get more out of them.0:12:53.884 --> 0:12:54.624Yeah, yeah.0:12:54.844 --> 0:12:55.485I'll tell you what,0:12:55.784 --> 0:12:57.966maybe an effective thing to do,0:12:58.405 --> 0:12:59.466we weren't planning this,0:12:59.746 --> 0:13:00.628but maybe an effective0:13:00.648 --> 0:13:02.629thing to do for your audience is,0:13:03.159 --> 0:13:05.802You throw a term out, any one of them,0:13:06.182 --> 0:13:07.144and then I'm on the hot0:13:07.203 --> 0:13:08.245seat to tell you how to0:13:08.284 --> 0:13:09.025apply it in rehab.0:13:09.725 --> 0:13:11.368This is completely untrained.0:13:12.149 --> 0:13:13.230Let's do an easy one or one0:13:13.250 --> 0:13:14.010that comes up a lot,0:13:14.030 --> 0:13:15.511but I think myself included,0:13:15.532 --> 0:13:16.653a lot of people might not0:13:16.692 --> 0:13:17.394know how to utilize it,0:13:17.413 --> 0:13:18.455which is gamification.0:13:18.575 --> 0:13:20.456Sounds cool, has the word game in it,0:13:20.496 --> 0:13:21.518but how do I use it?0:13:21.953 --> 0:13:22.193OK,0:13:22.495 --> 0:13:23.816so there's three big things in0:13:23.836 --> 0:13:24.515gamification.0:13:24.556 --> 0:13:26.457There's levels, points and rewards,0:13:26.538 --> 0:13:27.778but I'll make it super easy.0:13:28.279 --> 0:13:30.100So the easiest thing is to go for points.0:13:30.461 --> 0:13:30.721All right.0:13:30.802 --> 0:13:32.383So let's just say, for example,0:13:32.442 --> 0:13:34.004I sit somebody down on a0:13:34.063 --> 0:13:36.606recumbent elliptical or a0:13:36.667 --> 0:13:37.967stepper or whatever.0:13:38.467 --> 0:13:39.589And I say, you know,0:13:39.769 --> 0:13:41.410my goal is to have them do0:13:41.451 --> 0:13:43.832a high intensity intervals training.0:13:44.133 --> 0:13:45.232But if I sit there and say,0:13:45.312 --> 0:13:46.053you're going to need to do0:13:46.094 --> 0:13:48.375this for 30 seconds as hard as you can,0:13:48.394 --> 0:13:49.075and I want you to try to0:13:49.095 --> 0:13:49.955see if you can make the0:13:49.975 --> 0:13:51.655machine go up to 77 watts,0:13:52.035 --> 0:13:55.817they might feel some cortisol.0:13:55.837 --> 0:13:57.018They might feel some stress.0:13:57.097 --> 0:13:58.918They might feel some coercion.0:13:59.219 --> 0:14:00.639And they might feel like, gosh, this guy,0:14:00.659 --> 0:14:01.440I don't know how hard he0:14:01.460 --> 0:14:01.899wants me to work.0:14:02.220 --> 0:14:03.780What I'll use is gamification, though.0:14:04.321 --> 0:14:04.822So I'll say,0:14:04.902 --> 0:14:05.881I want you to just get0:14:05.962 --> 0:14:07.124comfortable with the device,0:14:07.264 --> 0:14:10.326use it a little bit and see how it goes.0:14:10.667 --> 0:14:11.998And then once they're 15,0:14:11.998 --> 0:14:12.92830 seconds into it, I'll say,0:14:13.249 --> 0:14:14.970just take 15 seconds to use0:14:14.990 --> 0:14:16.270it as hard as you think you can.0:14:17.105 --> 0:14:18.544And they record 34 watts.0:14:19.365 --> 0:14:20.946And then I say, okay,0:14:20.985 --> 0:14:22.567take it easy now for 30 seconds.0:14:22.726 --> 0:14:23.647And then when you hit the0:14:24.106 --> 0:14:25.067minute and a half mark,0:14:26.048 --> 0:14:27.107see how hard you can use it.0:14:27.827 --> 0:14:28.989Right there is gamification.0:14:29.328 --> 0:14:30.609They scored 34 watts.0:14:30.769 --> 0:14:32.330You and I both know they're0:14:32.350 --> 0:14:33.190going to try to look at0:14:33.230 --> 0:14:34.929that and see if they can beat 34 watts.0:14:35.409 --> 0:14:36.270Before you know it,0:14:36.451 --> 0:14:37.711they've taken themselves0:14:37.850 --> 0:14:39.912beyond the 77 watts that I0:14:39.971 --> 0:14:41.652told them I would have wanted to get to.0:14:41.991 --> 0:14:43.273And I never had to actually0:14:43.312 --> 0:14:43.932push that on them.0:14:44.332 --> 0:14:45.514I let them gamify because0:14:45.553 --> 0:14:46.815they look at points.0:14:47.375 --> 0:14:47.634Right.0:14:47.774 --> 0:14:47.936I mean,0:14:47.975 --> 0:14:49.476this is where like Peloton does a0:14:49.517 --> 0:14:51.038great does a great job is there.0:14:51.298 --> 0:14:53.038They're measuring different things.0:14:53.119 --> 0:14:54.519Do you ride Peloton at all, Mike?0:14:54.980 --> 0:14:55.399I don't.0:14:55.460 --> 0:14:56.341I'm very familiar.0:14:56.461 --> 0:14:57.442I ride my own bike.0:14:57.481 --> 0:14:58.601I'll leave it unnamed so I0:14:58.621 --> 0:14:59.663don't endorse anything.0:15:00.364 --> 0:15:00.823But yes,0:15:00.884 --> 0:15:02.745I ride an indoor bike and I take a0:15:02.784 --> 0:15:04.666look at, you know, my RPMs.0:15:04.706 --> 0:15:05.886I look at my power meter and0:15:05.907 --> 0:15:07.168I look at all that stuff.0:15:07.227 --> 0:15:08.089And, you know,0:15:08.168 --> 0:15:10.070and that's that's all gamification.0:15:10.421 --> 0:15:11.741They do a couple things, I think,0:15:11.842 --> 0:15:12.442well anyway.0:15:12.462 --> 0:15:14.745They do watts and they measure distance,0:15:14.846 --> 0:15:17.769obviously, perceived speed.0:15:18.809 --> 0:15:20.051And what they also do is0:15:20.091 --> 0:15:21.033they bring in people.0:15:21.572 --> 0:15:23.956So number one, the classes can be live.0:15:24.035 --> 0:15:25.157Social cohesion.0:15:26.177 --> 0:15:27.178You can see where you rank.0:15:27.740 --> 0:15:30.022And if I'm taking a class from last week,0:15:30.763 --> 0:15:32.124it's putting me in terms of0:15:32.224 --> 0:15:34.504Watts where other people0:15:34.544 --> 0:15:36.926were at that point in the0:15:37.167 --> 0:15:39.207ride in the race.0:15:39.528 --> 0:15:41.188What they also do is they have this thing.0:15:41.229 --> 0:15:41.769I thought it would have0:15:41.788 --> 0:15:42.950taken on a little more.0:15:42.990 --> 0:15:44.149It's called lane break.0:15:44.711 --> 0:15:45.051Okay.0:15:45.311 --> 0:15:46.552It's a little like Tron.0:15:46.572 --> 0:15:48.592It's like, it's like a six lane track,0:15:48.932 --> 0:15:49.133right?0:15:49.153 --> 0:15:50.313It's like a, it's like a track.0:15:50.754 --> 0:15:52.754And the way you switch lanes is your,0:15:52.934 --> 0:15:54.355is your resistance dial.0:15:54.436 --> 0:15:55.376So all the way to the left,0:15:55.417 --> 0:15:57.477you go to the far left lane, super easy.0:15:57.498 --> 0:15:57.538Um,0:15:58.118 --> 0:15:59.118And it'll tell you,0:15:59.357 --> 0:16:00.619you mentioned like in terms0:16:00.658 --> 0:16:01.399of the sprinting,0:16:01.698 --> 0:16:03.239there's three different kinds of things.0:16:03.298 --> 0:16:04.039There's gates.0:16:04.399 --> 0:16:05.519You've got to go through the gate.0:16:05.539 --> 0:16:06.500So I need you to be in lane0:16:06.539 --> 0:16:07.600three and hit this gate.0:16:07.659 --> 0:16:08.860If you miss it, you don't get the points.0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.802There's sprints where it'll be like,0:16:11.902 --> 0:16:13.422I need you to go and do X0:16:13.461 --> 0:16:14.782number of watts before your0:16:14.822 --> 0:16:16.982bike passes through this thing.0:16:17.403 --> 0:16:19.102And then there's tempo where0:16:19.123 --> 0:16:20.703it actually says be between0:16:20.703 --> 0:16:24.18460 and 80 RPMs, not higher, not lower.0:16:24.205 --> 0:16:24.284Yeah.0:16:25.345 --> 0:16:26.927So it's not just as hard as you can.0:16:27.047 --> 0:16:29.370So I thought that lane break thing,0:16:29.431 --> 0:16:29.870the option,0:16:29.890 --> 0:16:31.212the feature is kind of buried.0:16:31.312 --> 0:16:32.995It's not on the homepage as well,0:16:33.336 --> 0:16:34.216but I tried that a few0:16:34.277 --> 0:16:36.681times and I was like, this is, this was,0:16:36.721 --> 0:16:38.202it was one of the better0:16:38.582 --> 0:16:40.225gamification things that I had seen.0:16:40.245 --> 0:16:40.385Yeah.0:16:41.166 --> 0:16:41.606And remember,0:16:41.626 --> 0:16:43.347what you're saying there is0:16:43.408 --> 0:16:45.809that people get, remember I told you,0:16:45.870 --> 0:16:47.171points, levels, and rewards.0:16:47.311 --> 0:16:48.731You get to be level,0:16:48.812 --> 0:16:50.013so you get to actually,0:16:50.113 --> 0:16:51.234you're qualified now to0:16:51.313 --> 0:16:52.654race with the elite racers.0:16:53.155 --> 0:16:53.995So that's a level.0:16:54.397 --> 0:16:55.197And if you think about it in0:16:55.256 --> 0:16:57.219rehabilitation, how do we apply it back?0:16:57.698 --> 0:17:00.421So we also like people to have streaks,0:17:00.620 --> 0:17:02.903and I'm sure they do that in Peloton,0:17:02.962 --> 0:17:03.182right?0:17:03.543 --> 0:17:05.184So sometimes I actually used0:17:05.204 --> 0:17:07.306to say to my patients, okay,0:17:08.426 --> 0:17:09.387let's see if we can get you0:17:09.448 --> 0:17:10.409on a fall-free streak.0:17:11.269 --> 0:17:12.430And every time you come in0:17:12.450 --> 0:17:13.309to start the session,0:17:13.769 --> 0:17:14.691hold up the number of0:17:14.770 --> 0:17:16.070fingers that represent the0:17:16.090 --> 0:17:17.231number of falls you had0:17:17.672 --> 0:17:19.212since our last session.0:17:19.492 --> 0:17:21.294And they were very prideful coming in.0:17:21.473 --> 0:17:22.453Zero, zero.0:17:22.733 --> 0:17:24.414And they, oh, and I say to them, hey,0:17:24.634 --> 0:17:26.175that's nine days in a row0:17:26.236 --> 0:17:27.496you've gone without a fall.0:17:27.776 --> 0:17:29.376So that's another way of gamifying.0:17:29.436 --> 0:17:30.696So it's just looking at0:17:30.777 --> 0:17:31.678streaks and that can be0:17:31.718 --> 0:17:34.078done in incontinence, you know,0:17:34.118 --> 0:17:34.979in so many different ways.0:17:34.999 --> 0:17:36.680So then anyway, gamification,0:17:36.740 --> 0:17:37.980we've somewhat tackled there.0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.060We can move to another one if you want.0:17:39.201 --> 0:17:39.981How about nudge?0:17:40.061 --> 0:17:40.721What's nudge?0:17:41.163 --> 0:17:43.163So nudge is actually making0:17:43.365 --> 0:17:44.905a choice more0:17:45.326 --> 0:17:47.407geographically present or0:17:47.587 --> 0:17:48.669temporally present,0:17:49.009 --> 0:17:50.369making it more likely for0:17:50.411 --> 0:17:51.290you to choose it because0:17:51.330 --> 0:17:52.172it's right here right now.0:17:52.632 --> 0:17:53.913So I walk out of my0:17:54.013 --> 0:17:55.555workplace and there's a0:17:55.615 --> 0:17:57.036bunch of people exercising0:17:57.115 --> 0:17:58.017out in the courtyard.0:17:58.517 --> 0:17:59.577I don't have to drive.0:17:59.617 --> 0:18:01.240I don't have to swipe a membership badge.0:18:01.940 --> 0:18:03.080I can just walk right out0:18:03.121 --> 0:18:03.902there and it's available.0:18:04.241 --> 0:18:06.284It's a track that's close to my house.0:18:06.844 --> 0:18:09.226Nudge is easy, readily convenient.0:18:09.567 --> 0:18:10.827And an easy way that people0:18:10.887 --> 0:18:11.868think about this in their0:18:11.949 --> 0:18:13.809own lives is the doctor says,0:18:13.849 --> 0:18:14.750you need to start eating0:18:14.851 --> 0:18:16.031more healthy foods.0:18:16.511 --> 0:18:17.532And you go to the grocery0:18:17.553 --> 0:18:18.773aisle and you look at nuts0:18:18.854 --> 0:18:20.115and seeds and et cetera,0:18:20.455 --> 0:18:22.176and you completely have all0:18:22.237 --> 0:18:24.058this paradox of choice, choice, burden.0:18:24.298 --> 0:18:25.099You don't know what to choose.0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.361But it's nudged if it's0:18:27.621 --> 0:18:30.142already in your pantry and0:18:30.201 --> 0:18:31.862you see it nicely labeled nuts,0:18:32.001 --> 0:18:33.883seeds and chips and et cetera.0:18:34.262 --> 0:18:35.042But it's even better.0:18:35.103 --> 0:18:36.624What happens if you go to a0:18:36.683 --> 0:18:38.384party or somebody else's house,0:18:38.605 --> 0:18:39.785no matter what the occasion is,0:18:40.065 --> 0:18:41.846and there's already foods0:18:41.885 --> 0:18:42.685out there on the table,0:18:43.006 --> 0:18:44.967you're nudged into0:18:45.047 --> 0:18:46.387consuming something healthy0:18:46.428 --> 0:18:47.347because it's present.0:18:47.708 --> 0:18:48.868It's immediately available.0:18:48.969 --> 0:18:49.429It's there.0:18:49.828 --> 0:18:52.170So nudge is something like this.0:18:52.950 --> 0:18:53.810I'm going to give you a home0:18:53.891 --> 0:18:55.092exercise program that's0:18:55.152 --> 0:18:57.153built within things that0:18:57.193 --> 0:18:58.234you do in your life.0:18:59.375 --> 0:19:00.457You tell me what you do.0:19:00.576 --> 0:19:01.357And I say, oh,0:19:02.018 --> 0:19:03.038when you stand up from the0:19:03.118 --> 0:19:05.622couch on a commercial break,0:19:05.721 --> 0:19:07.462do five repetitions of sit to stand.0:19:07.542 --> 0:19:08.064It's a nudge.0:19:08.203 --> 0:19:08.884It's right there.0:19:09.644 --> 0:19:10.326It's easy for you.0:19:11.229 --> 0:19:12.650Yeah, that's a good use.0:19:12.710 --> 0:19:13.490And I think it's good that0:19:13.509 --> 0:19:14.150we're talking about this0:19:14.170 --> 0:19:15.171just before Christmas when0:19:15.230 --> 0:19:16.211I will be at parties where0:19:16.250 --> 0:19:17.211there will be things that0:19:17.612 --> 0:19:19.152they wouldn't be there in my house,0:19:19.612 --> 0:19:19.932right?0:19:20.212 --> 0:19:22.032Because they are right there.0:19:22.094 --> 0:19:23.653They're geographically right there.0:19:23.713 --> 0:19:24.855And it's so easy.0:19:24.875 --> 0:19:25.474We get caught in that.0:19:25.494 --> 0:19:25.714All right.0:19:25.994 --> 0:19:26.775The last one of our0:19:26.815 --> 0:19:28.215impromptu sort of batting0:19:28.256 --> 0:19:30.416practice is confirmation bias.0:19:30.797 --> 0:19:31.038Okay,0:19:31.357 --> 0:19:33.681so confirmation bias is something0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.022that can be used to our0:19:35.323 --> 0:19:36.444advantage or our0:19:36.605 --> 0:19:38.667disadvantage in rehabilitation.0:19:39.127 --> 0:19:40.549It has several things that0:19:40.589 --> 0:19:42.011go into confirmation bias.0:19:42.573 --> 0:19:43.433One of the things that we0:19:43.473 --> 0:19:44.394like to look at that's a0:19:44.516 --> 0:19:46.097sub-subject is the halo0:19:46.137 --> 0:19:47.419effect and the horns effect.0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:47.940Okay.0:19:49.416 --> 0:19:50.499Confirmation bias.0:19:50.878 --> 0:19:50.979Oh,0:19:51.058 --> 0:19:52.922they must be the best physical therapy0:19:52.961 --> 0:19:53.782clinic in town.0:19:53.863 --> 0:19:55.506They've got seven locations.0:19:55.726 --> 0:19:56.686I want to go there.0:19:57.248 --> 0:19:58.390Confirmation bias.0:19:58.769 --> 0:19:59.612I think I'm going to have a0:19:59.652 --> 0:20:02.055great experience because they're popular.0:20:02.095 --> 0:20:03.416Their parking lot's full.0:20:03.656 --> 0:20:05.159That's again, confirmation bias.0:20:05.599 --> 0:20:06.760Their people are all dressed0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:07.761in the same uniform.0:20:07.801 --> 0:20:09.923The reception staff was nice to me.0:20:10.443 --> 0:20:11.865All of those things resonate0:20:11.904 --> 0:20:13.507within the halo effect of0:20:13.547 --> 0:20:14.507the confirmation bias.0:20:15.048 --> 0:20:17.450Because I think these attributes,0:20:17.910 --> 0:20:19.551then I automatically0:20:19.692 --> 0:20:21.532associate attributes that0:20:21.573 --> 0:20:22.794haven't been earned0:20:23.694 --> 0:20:24.536to that entity.0:20:24.996 --> 0:20:25.955My physical therapist0:20:26.757 --> 0:20:28.097automatically seems like0:20:28.157 --> 0:20:29.038they're giving me better0:20:29.057 --> 0:20:32.019information if they are A, well-dressed.0:20:32.299 --> 0:20:35.561The receptionist talked nicely to me.0:20:35.922 --> 0:20:37.462I found the place easily.0:20:37.482 --> 0:20:39.805The therapist brought me back on time.0:20:40.404 --> 0:20:40.484Oh,0:20:40.704 --> 0:20:42.026that's what tells me they're a great0:20:42.066 --> 0:20:42.605therapist.0:20:43.267 --> 0:20:45.367Then, oh, that was my best experience yet.0:20:45.728 --> 0:20:47.108I feel so much better after that.0:20:48.787 --> 0:20:50.167It's amazing how these things work.0:20:50.189 --> 0:20:51.490Have you ever heard how Red Bull,0:20:51.509 --> 0:20:52.652when they were trying to launch,0:20:52.711 --> 0:20:54.354how they use confirmation bias?0:20:54.835 --> 0:20:56.156Yes, yes, yes.0:20:56.237 --> 0:20:57.919So that's an interesting one, too.0:20:58.400 --> 0:20:59.520And see, that's the thing.0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:00.762There's so much placebo0:21:00.803 --> 0:21:02.085effect that goes into that, though,0:21:02.105 --> 0:21:02.505as well.0:21:02.684 --> 0:21:02.846Yeah.0:21:03.326 --> 0:21:05.106Did you hear the one about the cans?0:21:05.527 --> 0:21:06.946So the idea was this was0:21:07.027 --> 0:21:09.387using confirmation bias in public.0:21:10.127 --> 0:21:11.388So they were at this music0:21:11.449 --> 0:21:13.009festival somewhere, right?0:21:13.469 --> 0:21:14.430And they were trying to give0:21:14.470 --> 0:21:15.230their cans away.0:21:15.410 --> 0:21:16.750But what that does is says, well,0:21:16.769 --> 0:21:17.550if it's free,0:21:17.971 --> 0:21:19.391how good could it possibly be?0:21:19.490 --> 0:21:20.511So they didn't want to do that.0:21:21.011 --> 0:21:22.152So what they did was their0:21:22.231 --> 0:21:23.393marketing team took a bunch0:21:23.432 --> 0:21:24.393of their Red Bull cans,0:21:25.032 --> 0:21:27.614poured out the Red Bull, took the cans,0:21:27.733 --> 0:21:28.673crushed them, whatever,0:21:28.814 --> 0:21:29.994and they put them in the garbage.0:21:30.654 --> 0:21:32.797So while people were walking around,0:21:32.856 --> 0:21:33.416they were saying,0:21:33.737 --> 0:21:36.179this must be good because0:21:36.479 --> 0:21:38.480everybody's already had that.0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.702And imagine, though, trying to pitch that.0:21:41.742 --> 0:21:42.643Imagine you're a budding0:21:42.702 --> 0:21:43.943marketer who understands0:21:43.983 --> 0:21:44.684confirmation bias.0:21:44.744 --> 0:21:45.224You're smart.0:21:45.244 --> 0:21:46.185You have a background in psychology.0:21:46.205 --> 0:21:47.686You're like, so here's what I want to do.0:21:48.146 --> 0:21:49.387I want to pour it all out0:21:49.708 --> 0:21:51.628and throw it away and throw0:21:51.669 --> 0:21:52.690the cans in the garbage0:21:52.710 --> 0:21:53.369because I think that'll0:21:53.390 --> 0:21:54.250make people like it more.0:21:54.490 --> 0:21:55.872Your marketing director0:21:55.892 --> 0:21:57.492would look at you like you're insane.0:21:57.512 --> 0:21:59.913That story has been told and it's like,0:22:00.174 --> 0:22:00.694gosh,0:22:01.515 --> 0:22:04.176I would fall for that or I would be0:22:04.237 --> 0:22:05.298susceptible to that.0:22:05.397 --> 0:22:05.678Yeah.0:22:05.877 --> 0:22:06.057Yeah.0:22:06.337 --> 0:22:07.019And so, you know,0:22:07.058 --> 0:22:10.101that comes in line with frequency bias.0:22:10.141 --> 0:22:10.861And I know we don't want to0:22:10.881 --> 0:22:11.801go off on another term,0:22:12.182 --> 0:22:13.623but frequency bias or the bias.0:22:13.968 --> 0:22:15.469the Bader-Meinhof effect.0:22:15.849 --> 0:22:16.329Remember,0:22:16.970 --> 0:22:18.551whatever car you just bought0:22:18.652 --> 0:22:20.333recently or whatever pair0:22:20.472 --> 0:22:22.074of shoes you just bought recently,0:22:22.394 --> 0:22:23.655you automatically start0:22:23.756 --> 0:22:25.457seeing it all over the place.0:22:25.917 --> 0:22:27.338So that's frequency bias.0:22:27.378 --> 0:22:28.599And now if you see that Red0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:30.060Bull can and you see it0:22:30.101 --> 0:22:32.041over in that trash can, now you start,0:22:32.563 --> 0:22:33.523you don't even realize that0:22:33.544 --> 0:22:34.884you're starting to look for it.0:22:35.224 --> 0:22:36.185Oh my gosh, there's a banner.0:22:36.266 --> 0:22:37.205There was an ad for it.0:22:37.547 --> 0:22:38.587I saw that came up on my0:22:38.627 --> 0:22:39.367social media feed.0:22:39.387 --> 0:22:40.128They're everywhere.0:22:40.669 --> 0:22:42.128you weren't paying attention to it.0:22:42.169 --> 0:22:43.289But now as soon as it came0:22:43.369 --> 0:22:44.529on your attention radar,0:22:44.829 --> 0:22:45.650you see it everywhere.0:22:45.750 --> 0:22:47.830And that frequency bias is a0:22:47.931 --> 0:22:49.211complimentary concept.0:22:49.471 --> 0:22:50.511It's wild, right?0:22:51.311 --> 0:22:53.712And these things still work.0:22:53.752 --> 0:22:54.393They're still present,0:22:54.532 --> 0:22:55.772even if you are aware of them.0:22:55.813 --> 0:22:56.593That's why they're biased.0:22:57.114 --> 0:22:58.134Yes, this is true.0:22:58.334 --> 0:22:58.574Yep.0:22:58.693 --> 0:22:58.874Yeah.0:22:58.894 --> 0:23:00.253And that's what makes it so fascinating.0:23:00.654 --> 0:23:02.295And the ability to apply it0:23:02.394 --> 0:23:04.675into rehabilitation is one0:23:04.695 --> 0:23:05.695of the things that I think0:23:06.076 --> 0:23:08.117We talk about motivational interviewing.0:23:08.157 --> 0:23:09.558We talk about patient engagement.0:23:09.578 --> 0:23:11.380We talk about collaborative goal setting.0:23:11.700 --> 0:23:12.760We talk about autonomy and0:23:12.820 --> 0:23:13.520all these things.0:23:14.001 --> 0:23:15.442And all of that can0:23:15.623 --> 0:23:18.545strengthen the therapy experience.0:23:18.585 --> 0:23:21.126And why wouldn't we want it to, you know?0:23:21.487 --> 0:23:23.067So that's the thing is if0:23:23.107 --> 0:23:25.170you're giving great therapy,0:23:25.710 --> 0:23:27.211but somebody has a negative0:23:27.250 --> 0:23:29.532confirmation bias, a horn's effect,0:23:30.053 --> 0:23:31.413That detracts from their0:23:31.515 --> 0:23:33.536outcome and your reflection,0:23:33.715 --> 0:23:35.317their word of mouth, et cetera.0:23:35.657 --> 0:23:36.878So we need to leverage these0:23:36.919 --> 0:23:38.240things so that our therapy0:23:38.259 --> 0:23:39.340experience is given the0:23:39.421 --> 0:23:40.883credit for what it's truly do.0:23:41.499 --> 0:23:41.798Yeah.0:23:42.058 --> 0:23:42.579It's wild.0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:43.440I mean, if I was going to,0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:44.580I'm not going back to school.0:23:44.661 --> 0:23:45.461I've done that too many times,0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.722but if I was, psychology is definitely,0:23:47.782 --> 0:23:48.242I sort of like,0:23:48.323 --> 0:23:49.624I just study it amateurly0:23:49.703 --> 0:23:51.545and I just think it's fascinating.0:23:51.625 --> 0:23:52.865I think when I was younger,0:23:52.964 --> 0:23:54.506I thought psychology was like, it's like,0:23:54.526 --> 0:23:55.227there's no way you can0:23:55.287 --> 0:23:56.647predict what people do.0:23:56.667 --> 0:23:57.768And I think psychologists would say,0:23:57.807 --> 0:23:58.848we don't, that's not what we do.0:23:59.388 --> 0:24:00.509We just look at patterns and0:24:00.549 --> 0:24:01.329how people act.0:24:01.349 --> 0:24:02.010And then we try to work0:24:02.070 --> 0:24:03.010backwards to figure out0:24:03.050 --> 0:24:04.872like what causes that or why,0:24:04.951 --> 0:24:06.653what might cause that to0:24:06.692 --> 0:24:07.933happen and utilize that.0:24:08.374 --> 0:24:09.434Yeah, that's the whole thing.0:24:09.494 --> 0:24:10.875Cognitive behavioral therapy0:24:11.255 --> 0:24:14.196says this is your pattern of thinking.0:24:14.757 --> 0:24:16.518Can we neuroplastically help0:24:16.637 --> 0:24:18.698you diverge that stream0:24:18.838 --> 0:24:20.898into another tributary so0:24:20.919 --> 0:24:22.200you don't follow down that0:24:22.259 --> 0:24:23.339same pattern of thinking?0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:24.141Yeah.0:24:24.441 --> 0:24:24.601Yeah.0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:26.301So you mentioned at least0:24:26.402 --> 0:24:27.343once or twice in there.0:24:27.383 --> 0:24:28.344I know it comes up a lot,0:24:28.364 --> 0:24:30.705especially with the audience's fear.0:24:30.806 --> 0:24:32.968It's a common barrier in recovery, right?0:24:33.028 --> 0:24:34.209Even just to get someone to0:24:34.249 --> 0:24:36.151maybe even come to your clinic sometimes.0:24:36.211 --> 0:24:37.332How many times they must0:24:37.372 --> 0:24:38.853have overcome fear before0:24:38.893 --> 0:24:40.054they'll even see you.0:24:40.634 --> 0:24:41.715So how can physical0:24:41.756 --> 0:24:42.477therapists better0:24:42.576 --> 0:24:44.538understand this thing that0:24:44.617 --> 0:24:46.380is probably going to be present often,0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:47.381fear,0:24:47.540 --> 0:24:49.182and address it with their patients0:24:49.282 --> 0:24:50.683to get those better outcomes?0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:52.480That's a great question.0:24:52.601 --> 0:24:53.580I love the fact that you've0:24:53.601 --> 0:24:54.461brought that up too.0:24:54.662 --> 0:24:55.241For me,0:24:55.402 --> 0:24:57.403I think about the omnipresence of fear.0:24:57.823 --> 0:24:58.804And I think about the fact0:24:58.864 --> 0:25:01.765that it's fear of re-injury, ACL,0:25:02.465 --> 0:25:04.287fear of incontinence,0:25:04.487 --> 0:25:05.928fear of falling is the most0:25:06.008 --> 0:25:08.108widely studied, you know,0:25:08.189 --> 0:25:09.690fear of making an error,0:25:10.009 --> 0:25:11.911which can be again to the yips,0:25:11.951 --> 0:25:13.352the baseball player, the golfer,0:25:13.372 --> 0:25:14.152the titting a putt,0:25:14.632 --> 0:25:16.232the gymnast that's up in the air,0:25:16.413 --> 0:25:17.294fear of making an error.0:25:17.433 --> 0:25:17.753And then0:25:18.213 --> 0:25:20.454We also think about fear of0:25:21.714 --> 0:25:23.935a disease process, dementia.0:25:23.996 --> 0:25:24.435Oh my gosh,0:25:24.455 --> 0:25:25.776I forgot where I parked my car0:25:25.855 --> 0:25:27.135twice in the last month.0:25:27.536 --> 0:25:28.537So we think about fear of0:25:28.817 --> 0:25:30.176all these types of things,0:25:30.217 --> 0:25:32.238and that's a broad spectrum across six.0:25:32.998 --> 0:25:34.357The first part of your0:25:34.438 --> 0:25:35.739question should be answered0:25:35.798 --> 0:25:36.499as number one.0:25:37.179 --> 0:25:38.660Physical therapists need to0:25:38.839 --> 0:25:39.980improve their skills in0:25:40.299 --> 0:25:42.260recognizing fear and0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.182opening the discussion about fear.0:25:44.281 --> 0:25:45.541And it can be extremely0:25:45.622 --> 0:25:47.823simple as much as this.0:25:48.083 --> 0:25:50.663And it's in the realms of0:25:50.723 --> 0:25:51.804vicarious experiences.0:25:52.124 --> 0:25:53.285When I've worked with people...0:25:54.265 --> 0:25:56.007similar to you going through0:25:56.047 --> 0:25:57.127the same condition,0:25:57.508 --> 0:25:58.888they've expressed to me a0:25:58.929 --> 0:26:01.270degree of fear in terms of0:26:01.310 --> 0:26:02.090their mobility.0:26:02.211 --> 0:26:04.512Do you find yourself fearful0:26:05.013 --> 0:26:06.275as you move across your0:26:06.315 --> 0:26:09.156home and walk in comfortable places?0:26:09.517 --> 0:26:11.058And you could just start it like that.0:26:11.219 --> 0:26:12.660If we don't talk about fear,0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:14.981then it becomes the early0:26:15.382 --> 0:26:16.0411990s when we weren't0:26:16.061 --> 0:26:17.282supposed to talk about pain.0:26:17.683 --> 0:26:19.384And then all we did was talk about pain.0:26:19.404 --> 0:26:20.286And then people became0:26:20.766 --> 0:26:20.865Sure.0:26:20.926 --> 0:26:21.106Right.0:26:32.901 --> 0:26:33.461So, I mean,0:26:33.561 --> 0:26:35.104have you have you read Chris Voss?0:26:35.243 --> 0:26:36.724He was a former FBI.0:26:37.165 --> 0:26:37.766So, oh,0:26:37.826 --> 0:26:39.347so he was a former FBI hostage0:26:39.387 --> 0:26:39.969negotiator.0:26:40.028 --> 0:26:40.950And the amount of times I0:26:40.990 --> 0:26:42.070talk about him on my podcast,0:26:42.090 --> 0:26:43.772you would think he sponsors my show,0:26:43.932 --> 0:26:44.493but he doesn't.0:26:44.753 --> 0:26:46.215But I would take sponsorship from Chris.0:26:46.715 --> 0:26:47.778So he essentially said that0:26:47.837 --> 0:26:48.438the name of the book that0:26:48.478 --> 0:26:49.338he wrote was called Never0:26:49.378 --> 0:26:50.099Split the Difference.0:26:50.421 --> 0:26:52.222Negotiate like your life depends on it.0:26:52.323 --> 0:26:53.763I thought it was a book about negotiating,0:26:53.784 --> 0:26:54.224but it's not.0:26:54.684 --> 0:26:55.506It's about a lot of the0:26:55.546 --> 0:26:56.346things you're talking about.0:26:56.366 --> 0:26:57.667So what he'll say is the0:26:57.708 --> 0:26:58.448reason the book is called0:26:58.488 --> 0:26:59.169that is he's like,0:26:59.189 --> 0:27:00.190if I get called for a bank0:27:00.250 --> 0:27:01.671robbery and I'm on scene, I can't be like,0:27:01.711 --> 0:27:02.751hey, you have 10 hostages.0:27:02.791 --> 0:27:04.772Why don't you kill five and0:27:04.813 --> 0:27:06.194I'll take five and we'll call it a day.0:27:06.234 --> 0:27:08.076He's like, no, I can't do that.0:27:08.135 --> 0:27:09.037So neither should you.0:27:09.596 --> 0:27:10.438So what he'll talk about is0:27:10.478 --> 0:27:11.939things like tactical empathy.0:27:12.058 --> 0:27:13.420And you just displayed that, which is.0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:15.241It's, you know,0:27:15.321 --> 0:27:17.005I've worked with people just like you.0:27:17.025 --> 0:27:19.788I'm not I'm not accusing you of having.0:27:19.948 --> 0:27:20.469Exactly.0:27:20.689 --> 0:27:22.991I'm empathetic that this might be a thing.0:27:23.011 --> 0:27:24.554And I've opened the door for0:27:24.594 --> 0:27:25.934now them to walk through.0:27:25.954 --> 0:27:26.916Yeah, that's it.0:27:27.257 --> 0:27:28.479And his famous line or one0:27:28.499 --> 0:27:30.000of his lines is it sounds0:27:30.039 --> 0:27:32.343as if or it might be or comes across as.0:27:33.064 --> 0:27:36.305that you're reluctant to try this.0:27:36.644 --> 0:27:37.884And what that does is it0:27:37.944 --> 0:27:38.704leaves them an out.0:27:39.005 --> 0:27:39.744If you've ever been in an0:27:39.904 --> 0:27:41.506argument with a spouse or a friend,0:27:41.766 --> 0:27:43.125you got to leave them an out, right?0:27:43.506 --> 0:27:44.665Give them a chance to be like, well,0:27:44.685 --> 0:27:45.826that's actually not what I'm saying.0:27:45.846 --> 0:27:46.905You're trying to put me into0:27:46.945 --> 0:27:47.987a corner because when you0:27:48.007 --> 0:27:48.866put someone into a corner,0:27:49.126 --> 0:27:50.826they don't like it.0:27:51.007 --> 0:27:51.926Actually, no, that's not true.0:27:52.027 --> 0:27:52.326Okay,0:27:52.446 --> 0:27:53.428I'm just trying to figure out what0:27:53.468 --> 0:27:53.907that is.0:27:54.288 --> 0:27:55.488And it's amazing to listen0:27:55.567 --> 0:27:57.228to a hostage negotiator,0:27:57.248 --> 0:27:58.969why that would be valuable for clinicians,0:27:59.409 --> 0:28:00.749but it's terribly valuable0:28:00.769 --> 0:28:01.048for clinicians.0:28:01.108 --> 0:28:02.289Tactical empathy.0:28:02.349 --> 0:28:03.191I'm learning this.0:28:03.290 --> 0:28:03.810I love it.0:28:04.172 --> 0:28:04.592I love it.0:28:04.672 --> 0:28:06.673It sounds like an oxymoron.0:28:06.733 --> 0:28:07.934It's like tactical is very0:28:08.494 --> 0:28:09.675forward and aggressive and0:28:09.796 --> 0:28:10.977empathy is very heartfelt0:28:11.096 --> 0:28:11.938and compassionate.0:28:12.198 --> 0:28:13.679But he's like he's because0:28:13.699 --> 0:28:14.940he's like a lot of times I0:28:15.099 --> 0:28:16.280was just talking to a guy0:28:16.340 --> 0:28:17.481I've never met on the phone0:28:17.582 --> 0:28:18.442and they are having the0:28:18.502 --> 0:28:19.983worst day of their life right now.0:28:20.464 --> 0:28:22.486The FBI is outside and, you know,0:28:22.506 --> 0:28:23.666this isn't going to go well.0:28:24.248 --> 0:28:25.828So, you know, I could threaten them.0:28:25.909 --> 0:28:26.829But what's that going to do?0:28:27.170 --> 0:28:28.089Yeah, exactly.0:28:28.410 --> 0:28:29.290I need to understand.0:28:29.310 --> 0:28:30.070I'm also not going to give0:28:30.090 --> 0:28:31.471you a helicopter and $10 million.0:28:31.510 --> 0:28:32.251It's not happening.0:28:32.271 --> 0:28:34.833I'm sorry.0:28:34.873 --> 0:28:35.992I need to make a connection0:28:36.813 --> 0:28:38.013to figure out what makes0:28:38.034 --> 0:28:39.733this guy tick so I can try0:28:39.753 --> 0:28:42.154to help them make their own0:28:42.214 --> 0:28:43.474decision to walk out the0:28:43.536 --> 0:28:45.135front door with their hands in the air.0:28:45.296 --> 0:28:46.817And that is every chapter.0:28:46.896 --> 0:28:47.836Also, it's just a well-written book.0:28:47.936 --> 0:28:49.076Every chapter is like a0:28:49.156 --> 0:28:51.377story about a bank robbery or whatever.0:28:51.637 --> 0:28:52.679And then boom, how do I,0:28:52.818 --> 0:28:53.778what did I take from that0:28:53.818 --> 0:28:54.578that you can take?0:28:54.618 --> 0:28:55.278And it's a lesson.0:28:55.318 --> 0:28:56.480So it was really real well-written.0:28:57.155 --> 0:28:57.695I love that.0:28:57.756 --> 0:28:59.217I'm going to definitely look that up.0:28:59.237 --> 0:29:02.179You said Chris Voss, because I'll tell you,0:29:02.618 --> 0:29:03.700earlier this morning,0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:05.840I had to go through one of0:29:05.881 --> 0:29:07.521those mandatory educational0:29:07.561 --> 0:29:08.582things that we all have to0:29:08.622 --> 0:29:09.803do for our employers.0:29:10.199 --> 0:29:11.940And I had to go take a class0:29:12.019 --> 0:29:14.180that was online on0:29:14.700 --> 0:29:16.181basically de-escalation,0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:17.701workplace violence, and et cetera.0:29:18.101 --> 0:29:18.862We were just talking about0:29:18.902 --> 0:29:19.942the same exact thing.0:29:20.422 --> 0:29:22.843And you think about this in a burgeoning,0:29:23.022 --> 0:29:24.482developing relationship0:29:24.522 --> 0:29:26.243with me and a person that I0:29:26.423 --> 0:29:28.284am committed to rehabilitate.0:29:28.604 --> 0:29:30.565I want to demonstrate that.0:29:30.865 --> 0:29:32.626things that bring them into0:29:32.646 --> 0:29:34.847the relationship, I feel like I'm here.0:29:34.887 --> 0:29:35.749And so all those0:29:35.868 --> 0:29:37.009motivational interviewing0:29:37.049 --> 0:29:38.451and active listening things0:29:39.051 --> 0:29:40.432placed into an environment0:29:40.472 --> 0:29:42.273of awkwardness of, I don't know,0:29:42.314 --> 0:29:42.974is this person,0:29:43.234 --> 0:29:44.316do they know what they're doing?0:29:44.375 --> 0:29:45.557Are they going to be able to help me?0:29:45.896 --> 0:29:47.097I'm looking for a reason to0:29:47.117 --> 0:29:48.699either engage or to bail.0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:50.320Do I want to schedule more visits?0:29:50.540 --> 0:29:51.260And you want to give them0:29:51.361 --> 0:29:52.602every opportunity to say,0:29:52.622 --> 0:29:54.824I feel like I see you.0:29:55.163 --> 0:29:55.825Is this right?0:29:55.924 --> 0:29:57.326Am I seeing you correctly?0:29:58.487 --> 0:29:58.807And, you know,0:29:58.866 --> 0:30:00.167and then the other part of your question,0:30:00.188 --> 0:30:01.208we talk about fear.0:30:02.628 --> 0:30:03.769We have a lot of science0:30:03.828 --> 0:30:06.390with how to combat fear now,0:30:06.890 --> 0:30:08.671and it's not through ignoring things.0:30:08.730 --> 0:30:08.990Right.0:30:09.651 --> 0:30:11.872So our science for combating0:30:11.912 --> 0:30:16.993fear now largely comes into acceptance,0:30:17.074 --> 0:30:19.474commitment therapy and habituation.0:30:19.855 --> 0:30:21.715And you could call it exposure therapy,0:30:22.175 --> 0:30:23.375whatever you want to call it.0:30:23.516 --> 0:30:25.116But we in rehabilitation,0:30:25.176 --> 0:30:27.238we know it best as habituation.0:30:28.038 --> 0:30:29.539Successive approximation,0:30:29.819 --> 0:30:32.804small stimuli of that same0:30:33.505 --> 0:30:37.250threatening environment, situation,0:30:37.710 --> 0:30:38.971person, or condition,0:30:39.393 --> 0:30:40.834small stimuli that don't0:30:40.913 --> 0:30:43.037actually provoke me are0:30:43.076 --> 0:30:44.358healthy so that I can0:30:44.538 --> 0:30:45.840normalize my response.0:30:46.925 --> 0:30:47.026Yeah,0:30:47.046 --> 0:30:48.967you mentioned fear of falling being0:30:49.167 --> 0:30:50.288probably one of the most prominent,0:30:50.307 --> 0:30:50.969especially with older0:30:51.028 --> 0:30:52.769adults in the stuff in the0:30:52.809 --> 0:30:53.611work that I do.0:30:53.990 --> 0:30:56.471It's often feared more than death.0:30:56.573 --> 0:30:57.633That's public speaking.0:30:58.314 --> 0:30:59.634And I heard someone sort of0:30:59.674 --> 0:31:00.474reframe because a lot of0:31:00.515 --> 0:31:01.455times I'm standing there in0:31:01.496 --> 0:31:02.395the wings with someone0:31:02.415 --> 0:31:03.497who's about to go on stage.0:31:03.737 --> 0:31:04.298They do not.0:31:04.798 --> 0:31:06.058They want to have spoken.0:31:06.098 --> 0:31:06.818They don't want to speak.0:31:07.038 --> 0:31:07.980They want to be done.0:31:08.380 --> 0:31:09.099So then what do we do?0:31:09.141 --> 0:31:10.080We rush through it.0:31:10.201 --> 0:31:10.800We sweat.0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:12.402We get all the physiologic responses.0:31:12.803 --> 0:31:14.143And I heard someone recently0:31:14.163 --> 0:31:15.804and it changed how I sort0:31:15.864 --> 0:31:18.665of prepare people for this, which is, hey,0:31:18.685 --> 0:31:19.246are you nervous?0:31:19.286 --> 0:31:21.307Like, again, never mentioned pain,0:31:21.346 --> 0:31:22.147never mentioned nerves.0:31:22.307 --> 0:31:23.028But now we're like,0:31:23.429 --> 0:31:24.568are you feeling nerves?0:31:24.608 --> 0:31:25.349You feel anxiety?0:31:26.029 --> 0:31:27.030Yeah, I am.0:31:27.291 --> 0:31:28.854And a lot of times, again,0:31:28.913 --> 0:31:30.015the worst advice to give0:31:30.035 --> 0:31:31.376someone in a stressful situation is, hey,0:31:31.416 --> 0:31:31.778relax.0:31:32.317 --> 0:31:33.098Yeah, just ignore it.0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:34.059Does that ever work?0:31:34.181 --> 0:31:35.923Suppress it.0:31:36.042 --> 0:31:37.644What I heard this person say is, listen,0:31:38.346 --> 0:31:39.446you're feeling anxiety,0:31:39.467 --> 0:31:40.308and I understand why.0:31:40.568 --> 0:31:42.530This is an abnormal situation, right?0:31:43.291 --> 0:31:44.913um you wouldn't be feeling0:31:44.952 --> 0:31:46.013anxiety unless unless you0:31:46.054 --> 0:31:46.993kind of cared about how0:31:47.013 --> 0:31:47.894you're going to perform out0:31:47.934 --> 0:31:49.315there so that's great so I0:31:49.355 --> 0:31:50.476like where this anxiety is0:31:50.516 --> 0:31:51.797coming from and they said0:31:51.836 --> 0:31:52.876to try to treat it like0:31:52.997 --> 0:31:54.718judo and judo is famous for0:31:54.738 --> 0:31:56.058like I'm not gonna I'm0:31:56.078 --> 0:31:57.099gonna use your energy0:31:57.160 --> 0:31:58.941against you right I'm gonna0:31:58.980 --> 0:31:59.740do I'm gonna do like the0:31:59.780 --> 0:32:00.561miyagi I'm just gonna do a0:32:00.582 --> 0:32:01.761couple moves and your0:32:01.842 --> 0:32:02.762energy is actually gonna be0:32:02.883 --> 0:32:04.344countered and they said0:32:04.604 --> 0:32:05.584take I don't want you to0:32:05.624 --> 0:32:06.204try to get rid of that0:32:06.244 --> 0:32:07.325energy that nervous injury0:32:07.345 --> 0:32:07.925because it's probably not0:32:07.945 --> 0:32:08.486gonna work anyway0:32:08.905 --> 0:32:09.105Yeah.0:32:09.445 --> 0:32:10.886So I want you to use it.0:32:11.347 --> 0:32:12.709So I want you to go up there0:32:12.749 --> 0:32:14.029and I want you to use that energy,0:32:14.069 --> 0:32:16.911but see if you can control it like judo.0:32:17.031 --> 0:32:18.432And that sort of like, you know, hey,0:32:18.451 --> 0:32:19.272can we use this?0:32:19.732 --> 0:32:20.913Can we use this fear?0:32:21.273 --> 0:32:21.994You're paying attention.0:32:22.015 --> 0:32:22.755This is a big deal,0:32:22.775 --> 0:32:23.935but that's why we're here today.0:32:23.976 --> 0:32:25.416We're here for this and0:32:25.436 --> 0:32:26.758we're leading into it.0:32:27.278 --> 0:32:28.358So it's not just, hey,0:32:28.378 --> 0:32:30.140we talk about it and these words heal.0:32:30.180 --> 0:32:31.020That's not what we're saying.0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:32.021We're saying that this is0:32:32.082 --> 0:32:33.162part of the process,0:32:33.221 --> 0:32:34.103part of the larger process.0:32:34.242 --> 0:32:34.403Yeah.0:32:34.682 --> 0:32:35.683And what you did there is0:32:35.703 --> 0:32:37.424you normalize it is that's A,0:32:39.145 --> 0:32:40.547and experience that most0:32:40.626 --> 0:32:41.988people for their first time0:32:42.229 --> 0:32:43.430as they're a novice in0:32:43.509 --> 0:32:45.171speaking in public should0:32:45.211 --> 0:32:46.471experience that's great and0:32:46.811 --> 0:32:48.292then b you leveraged it and0:32:48.353 --> 0:32:49.473I love that that's that's0:32:49.493 --> 0:32:50.914great I get anxious because0:32:50.954 --> 0:32:51.796I'm worried about the0:32:51.836 --> 0:32:52.477performance I'm like0:32:52.817 --> 0:32:53.537especially I'm like shoot0:32:53.557 --> 0:32:54.178I'm supposed to be good at0:32:54.218 --> 0:32:55.298this I'm supposed to get on0:32:55.358 --> 0:32:56.219stage be really great at0:32:56.259 --> 0:32:57.861this now if I screw up what0:32:57.881 --> 0:32:58.520does that say about what0:32:58.540 --> 0:32:59.442kind of person it's because0:32:59.481 --> 0:33:00.702it's tied to your identity0:33:00.823 --> 0:33:02.044right because a lot of0:33:02.064 --> 0:33:02.904times I was coaching up0:33:02.964 --> 0:33:04.726scientists or researchers0:33:04.746 --> 0:33:05.787and it was like hey you0:33:05.906 --> 0:33:07.448just did the work like they0:33:07.488 --> 0:33:08.528want to hear from you and0:33:08.949 --> 0:33:10.329But I'm good at the work,0:33:10.451 --> 0:33:11.431not good at the speaking.0:33:11.531 --> 0:33:13.512All right, well, let's tailor your talk.0:33:13.814 --> 0:33:14.855This is why I need you to0:33:14.875 --> 0:33:16.316call me a month before your talk,0:33:16.355 --> 0:33:17.978not 10 minutes before your talk.0:33:18.278 --> 0:33:19.058Let's tailor your talk0:33:19.098 --> 0:33:20.460around what you're excited to talk about.0:33:20.500 --> 0:33:22.662Let's put that at the top of the queue.0:33:22.682 --> 0:33:24.923And then before you even0:33:25.144 --> 0:33:26.525notice that you're nervous up there,0:33:26.545 --> 0:33:27.705you'll be talking about0:33:27.767 --> 0:33:28.948things you like talking about.0:33:29.067 --> 0:33:30.288And that's why people are in the audience.0:33:30.689 --> 0:33:33.589You do such a nice job of helping people,0:33:34.351 --> 0:33:34.611you know,0:33:35.010 --> 0:33:37.291speak passionately without feeling,0:33:37.852 --> 0:33:39.252you know, I guess,0:33:39.333 --> 0:33:40.854frightened about the setting,0:33:40.894 --> 0:33:43.414the environment and the audience, etc.0:33:43.734 --> 0:33:44.536I want to know behind the0:33:44.576 --> 0:33:45.435scenes because I've never0:33:45.455 --> 0:33:46.355done one of these.0:33:46.395 --> 0:33:47.616These are one of my this is0:33:47.656 --> 0:33:49.877on my bucket list, which is a TED talk.0:33:49.938 --> 0:33:51.019You did TED talk and I'll0:33:51.058 --> 0:33:52.358put the link to that in the show note.0:33:52.378 --> 0:33:53.559Like how did it come about?0:33:53.660 --> 0:33:55.000How they I'm interested in0:33:55.019 --> 0:33:57.141the prep process because0:33:57.181 --> 0:33:58.201I'll tell people all the time.0:33:59.660 --> 0:34:01.280you're going to go give a 900:34:01.280 --> 0:34:02.702minute presentation at CSM0:34:02.742 --> 0:34:03.963and you're putting a couple0:34:04.003 --> 0:34:05.184hours of preparation into it.0:34:05.224 --> 0:34:06.244I'm like, I got news for you.0:34:06.786 --> 0:34:07.646Ted talks are typically,0:34:07.686 --> 0:34:09.628I think 17 minutes or that.0:34:09.907 --> 0:34:11.269And you have a clock ticking0:34:11.289 --> 0:34:11.849in front of you.0:34:11.889 --> 0:34:12.490Yes, you do.0:34:12.570 --> 0:34:12.731Right.0:34:13.590 --> 0:34:14.052And then I'm like,0:34:14.192 --> 0:34:15.132and you're going to wing it,0:34:15.172 --> 0:34:16.213but this person's doing a0:34:16.514 --> 0:34:19.456hot skilled 17 minutes and0:34:19.476 --> 0:34:20.956they've likely put months into it.0:34:21.016 --> 0:34:23.159So curtain, how'd this work?0:34:23.599 --> 0:34:23.820Yeah.0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:25.201So, um,0:34:28.023 --> 0:34:29.264I was able to engage in a0:34:29.324 --> 0:34:30.724TED Talk that was hosted at0:34:30.764 --> 0:34:31.686my own hometown.0:34:31.746 --> 0:34:32.487So that was good.0:34:32.547 --> 0:34:33.047That's easy.0:34:33.086 --> 0:34:34.407I don't have to travel, etc.0:34:35.048 --> 0:34:36.130I knew, I think,0:34:36.369 --> 0:34:38.010six months in advance that0:34:38.132 --> 0:34:39.793my talk was going to be accepted.0:34:39.893 --> 0:34:42.295So you make an application0:34:42.394 --> 0:34:43.175and you're accepted.0:34:43.635 --> 0:34:44.476And largely,0:34:44.536 --> 0:34:45.958there's some luck to do with that.0:34:46.077 --> 0:34:47.719But if your theme is0:34:48.179 --> 0:34:48.978commensurate with the0:34:49.039 --> 0:34:51.260larger theme of that TED Talk,0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:52.581that's going to be helpful as well.0:34:53.262 --> 0:34:54.282Once you get accepted,0:34:54.362 --> 0:34:56.903then at least my experience0:34:57.023 --> 0:34:58.925is you are given an0:34:58.965 --> 0:35:00.626opportunity to work with the coaches,0:35:00.706 --> 0:35:01.726which are the producers and0:35:01.746 --> 0:35:02.788the hosts of the TED Talk.0:35:03.387 --> 0:35:05.610And so you actually formulate your talk.0:35:05.670 --> 0:35:07.994You come in, present it in front of them.0:35:08.114 --> 0:35:09.235They've got all the cameras0:35:09.315 --> 0:35:10.117out there and they're0:35:10.177 --> 0:35:11.179sitting as though they're0:35:11.219 --> 0:35:12.360all in their director's chairs,0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:12.900et cetera.0:35:13.402 --> 0:35:14.403And they're putting you on0:35:14.443 --> 0:35:16.425the spot to see how you do0:35:16.505 --> 0:35:18.730in the quasi environment.0:35:19.530 --> 0:35:20.429And then they give you0:35:20.469 --> 0:35:21.811direct feedback right there.0:35:21.871 --> 0:35:23.371And then you come back and do it again.0:35:23.530 --> 0:35:24.992And then you come back and do it again.0:35:25.472 --> 0:35:27.291And it shapes itself up nicely.0:35:27.572 --> 0:35:29.313You get the automaticity to it.0:35:29.652 --> 0:35:31.134You have enough repetitions.0:35:31.253 --> 0:35:32.773You have comfort with the stage.0:35:33.273 --> 0:35:35.094All of that is, you know,0:35:35.215 --> 0:35:36.255but at that point,0:35:36.275 --> 0:35:37.856when I gave that talk in 2020,0:35:37.856 --> 0:35:39.275I had already been talking0:35:39.675 --> 0:35:42.016professionally since 1994.0:35:42.016 --> 0:35:42.876So I don't want to say it0:35:43.016 --> 0:35:44.438ever sounds easy because0:35:44.478 --> 0:35:45.498it's a different stage.0:35:46.117 --> 0:35:47.159But I'll say two things.0:35:47.199 --> 0:35:47.719Number one,0:35:47.739 --> 0:35:50.182I had 26 years experience going in.0:35:50.302 --> 0:35:51.043That's great.0:35:51.483 --> 0:35:52.364But number two,0:35:53.226 --> 0:35:53.786the quote is0:35:53.887 --> 0:35:56.128misappropriated to Abraham0:35:56.208 --> 0:35:58.751Lincoln most frequently and0:35:58.791 --> 0:35:59.612to many others.0:35:59.853 --> 0:36:00.893It's, you know,0:36:01.355 --> 0:36:03.097give me a day to talk about0:36:03.197 --> 0:36:05.018something and I'm ready right now.0:36:06.231 --> 0:36:06.632OK,0:36:07.132 --> 0:36:09.655give me an hour to talk about something0:36:09.695 --> 0:36:10.976and I need two hours to prepare.0:36:11.436 --> 0:36:12.996Give me 15 minutes to talk0:36:13.036 --> 0:36:14.297about something and I need0:36:14.318 --> 0:36:15.219a day to prepare.0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:17.519You know, and, you know,0:36:17.559 --> 0:36:18.501that's that's the whole0:36:18.561 --> 0:36:19.922thing is that you're going0:36:19.942 --> 0:36:21.983to talk impromptu, unstructured.0:36:22.264 --> 0:36:23.405You got all the time in the world.0:36:23.445 --> 0:36:24.144That's one thing.0:36:24.465 --> 0:36:25.746But literally, Jimmy,0:36:25.865 --> 0:36:28.068I probably put 25 hours of practice.0:36:29.855 --> 0:36:31.394into practicing that speech0:36:31.514 --> 0:36:32.856for 15 minutes I'm0:36:32.896 --> 0:36:35.315satisfied with it um but0:36:35.376 --> 0:36:36.356I'll always look for rooms0:36:36.376 --> 0:36:37.916for improvement yeah I0:36:37.956 --> 0:36:38.936don't doubt it and and0:36:39.137 --> 0:36:40.577that's the funny part is0:36:41.197 --> 0:36:42.536people will get a 90 minute0:36:42.556 --> 0:36:43.858block at csm and I'm not0:36:43.878 --> 0:36:44.737knocking our profession0:36:44.757 --> 0:36:45.878this is this is everywhere0:36:46.257 --> 0:36:47.577and the funny part is and0:36:47.597 --> 0:36:48.798this is what I i like I0:36:48.818 --> 0:36:49.878want to grab the person0:36:49.898 --> 0:36:50.798whoever the people are that0:36:50.838 --> 0:36:52.318design csm I'm like I need0:36:52.318 --> 0:36:53.36015 minutes to tell you why0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:53.940I think you're doing it0:36:53.980 --> 0:36:54.860backwards here's why0:36:55.820 --> 0:36:57.021So in radio,0:36:58.240 --> 0:36:59.501when FM was a little stronger0:36:59.541 --> 0:37:00.983than podcasting now, right?0:37:01.884 --> 0:37:03.023The morning show led the0:37:03.043 --> 0:37:04.664radio station because they0:37:04.684 --> 0:37:05.505do more of the talking.0:37:05.545 --> 0:37:06.385They knew the audience was a0:37:06.405 --> 0:37:07.327little more hyper-focused0:37:07.367 --> 0:37:08.507in terms of a larger audience.0:37:08.967 --> 0:37:12.088So if you are a budding radio guy like me,0:37:12.349 --> 0:37:13.389you want to get some0:37:13.489 --> 0:37:14.670minutes on the morning show.0:37:14.690 --> 0:37:16.291You want to get some exposure, right?0:37:17.152 --> 0:37:19.032So instead of me just saying, hey,0:37:19.172 --> 0:37:20.693I've got a great bit, Mike.0:37:20.733 --> 0:37:22.275You're the morning show host, right?0:37:22.903 --> 0:37:23.943And you go, all right, Jimmy,0:37:24.324 --> 0:37:25.445come in tomorrow at 7.30.0:37:25.445 --> 0:37:26.465That doesn't happen.0:37:26.925 --> 0:37:27.266No way.0:37:27.286 --> 0:37:28.126Because Mike is like,0:37:28.146 --> 0:37:29.666the reason my show is great0:37:29.746 --> 0:37:31.608is because I have these0:37:32.248 --> 0:37:34.509hurdles that I want the best to show up.0:37:34.548 --> 0:37:35.228If you've got something.0:37:35.248 --> 0:37:36.389So you're in the hallway.0:37:36.409 --> 0:37:37.050You're like, pitch.0:37:37.650 --> 0:37:39.670And I'm like, hey, Taylor Swift,0:37:39.690 --> 0:37:40.990Travis Kelsey, something just happened.0:37:41.010 --> 0:37:41.572Here's the thing.0:37:41.592 --> 0:37:43.371And here's what I want to do.0:37:43.731 --> 0:37:44.773I need 15 minutes.0:37:44.992 --> 0:37:45.472I pitched.0:37:45.492 --> 0:37:46.474I told you how much I need.0:37:46.934 --> 0:37:47.094Mm-mm.0:37:47.914 --> 0:37:48.454I pitch.0:37:48.855 --> 0:37:49.835You're doing the math in0:37:49.876 --> 0:37:50.956your head because you know0:37:50.996 --> 0:37:52.117the audience so well.0:37:52.157 --> 0:37:52.478You're like,0:37:52.777 --> 0:37:54.139I can give you three minutes for that.0:37:54.639 --> 0:37:55.880That's exactly right.0:37:56.219 --> 0:37:57.742You're pitching to Lorne Michaels.0:37:58.161 --> 0:37:59.083Do you think you're telling0:37:59.163 --> 0:38:00.664Lorne that you need 12 minutes?0:38:00.864 --> 0:38:01.364Not a chance.0:38:01.423 --> 0:38:03.646You are pitching because0:38:04.226 --> 0:38:06.288time is the currency.0:38:06.748 --> 0:38:07.007Yeah.0:38:07.108 --> 0:38:08.489And you're saying that is good.0:38:08.789 --> 0:38:09.150That's not 20.0:38:09.489 --> 0:38:10.411That's not 90 minutes.0:38:10.451 --> 0:38:10.630Good.0:38:11.010 --> 0:38:12.331That's 12 minutes.0:38:12.632 --> 0:38:13.914So it amazes me.0:38:14.514 --> 0:38:16.195when we apply for these things,0:38:16.215 --> 0:38:16.855and I understand there's a0:38:16.914 --> 0:38:18.436logistical element to it, right?0:38:18.456 --> 0:38:20.336We want to fit as many things in.0:38:20.458 --> 0:38:20.978My way, though,0:38:20.998 --> 0:38:21.757would actually give more0:38:21.818 --> 0:38:22.639people an opportunity to0:38:22.679 --> 0:38:23.478talk at the same amount of time.0:38:23.498 --> 0:38:24.079I think you're right.0:38:24.260 --> 0:38:24.539Yeah.0:38:24.780 --> 0:38:25.099Which is,0:38:25.561 --> 0:38:26.481what do you... Because I've done0:38:26.521 --> 0:38:28.121presentations where I've submitted, hey,0:38:28.161 --> 0:38:31.003I want to talk at your event.0:38:31.423 --> 0:38:32.184And they've gone, great,0:38:32.244 --> 0:38:33.465you got 90 minutes.0:38:33.505 --> 0:38:34.346And I'm like, I can't...0:38:35.222 --> 0:38:36.782without stretching this so0:38:36.862 --> 0:38:38.744far that I break this rubber band,0:38:38.903 --> 0:38:40.143I can't make this 90 minutes.0:38:40.443 --> 0:38:40.684Yeah.0:38:41.005 --> 0:38:42.605It's just, I'll just be repeating.0:38:42.784 --> 0:38:44.706I would be going in circles0:38:44.885 --> 0:38:46.507after minute 42.0:38:46.507 --> 0:38:47.467So I'm like, I need,0:38:47.947 --> 0:38:49.668I need 32 minutes to do this.0:38:49.829 --> 0:38:51.028And then I can do 15 minutes0:38:51.588 --> 0:38:54.110of Q and a maybe, but they're like,0:38:54.170 --> 0:38:56.251you have to fill 90 and it just blows.0:38:56.391 --> 0:38:57.532It breaks my heart.0:38:57.552 --> 0:38:57.831Cause I'm like,0:38:58.052 --> 0:39:00.552give someone else the microphone.0:39:00.733 --> 0:39:01.333I don't need 90.0:39:02.204 --> 0:39:03.405Yeah, that's so good.0:39:03.885 --> 0:39:04.547And so I'm going to0:39:04.606 --> 0:39:08.208timestamp this as December0:39:08.228 --> 0:39:11.35114th of 2023 when I'm0:39:11.431 --> 0:39:12.552hearing you for the first0:39:12.612 --> 0:39:15.934time make this pivot of how we do CSM.0:39:16.233 --> 0:39:17.155And I'm just going to watch0:39:17.215 --> 0:39:18.556to see what year it0:39:18.655 --> 0:39:19.956actually becomes your model.0:39:20.056 --> 0:39:20.757I love that.0:39:20.998 --> 0:39:23.498I've spoken so many years at CSM,0:39:23.778 --> 0:39:25.420and I really like your0:39:25.481 --> 0:39:26.201effort there because I0:39:26.221 --> 0:39:26.721think you're right.0:39:27.001 --> 0:39:29.543We could get a lot more programming in.0:39:29.563 --> 0:39:31.023Same time, same cost.0:39:31.405 --> 0:39:31.965Oh, that's good.0:39:32.324 --> 0:39:32.905But it's also,0:39:32.985 --> 0:39:34.746are you familiar with Parkinson's law?0:39:35.927 --> 0:39:36.728Parkinson's law?0:39:36.748 --> 0:39:37.108I'm not.0:39:37.208 --> 0:39:37.409Wow.0:39:37.789 --> 0:39:38.010Okay.0:39:38.090 --> 0:39:40.512Parkinson's law is the time0:39:40.552 --> 0:39:42.112it takes to complete a task0:39:42.233 --> 0:39:43.695will expand or contract0:39:43.894 --> 0:39:44.815based on the amount of time0:39:44.835 --> 0:39:46.137you're given to complete the task.0:39:46.217 --> 0:39:47.036So it's like you tell your0:39:47.077 --> 0:39:49.398kid you got a week to clean your room.0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:51.581They get done on day six, hour 23.0:39:51.621 --> 0:39:53.822But if you say you don't0:39:53.862 --> 0:39:55.664clean that room in the next 24 hours,0:39:55.885 --> 0:39:56.704you got 24 hours.0:39:57.025 --> 0:39:58.947They get it done in 23 and a half hours.0:39:59.086 --> 0:39:59.307Yeah.0:39:59.387 --> 0:40:00.469And that goes along with like,0:40:01.248 --> 0:40:03.108If you give me six months to write a talk,0:40:03.208 --> 0:40:04.349I'll do it in the last week.0:40:04.550 --> 0:40:04.730I mean,0:40:04.769 --> 0:40:06.269how many times do you go to CSM and0:40:06.289 --> 0:40:07.190someone says, well,0:40:07.210 --> 0:40:07.891I was putting my slides0:40:07.931 --> 0:40:08.811together on the plane.0:40:09.030 --> 0:40:09.690And that's cute.0:40:10.010 --> 0:40:11.911The first hundred times you hear it.0:40:12.652 --> 0:40:13.871Dude, I paid to come here.0:40:14.072 --> 0:40:15.771Like a lot of fun and effort.0:40:15.871 --> 0:40:17.293I'm hanging on your words.0:40:17.733 --> 0:40:20.193So my talk, not to pitch,0:40:20.353 --> 0:40:21.032I didn't think I was going0:40:21.052 --> 0:40:21.653to pitch my talk,0:40:21.673 --> 0:40:23.954but I'm in the Academy of Science,0:40:24.554 --> 0:40:26.394or sorry, Education and Research.0:40:27.215 --> 0:40:27.394Hang on.0:40:27.974 --> 0:40:28.394research.0:40:28.474 --> 0:40:29.396I just gave like several.0:40:29.416 --> 0:40:29.615All right.0:40:29.715 --> 0:40:30.255I'm in research.0:40:30.335 --> 0:40:31.916I'm with Sheila Schindler Ivins,0:40:32.137 --> 0:40:32.898who is a researcher.0:40:33.338 --> 0:40:33.737Yeah.0:40:33.978 --> 0:40:34.378She's like,0:40:34.559 --> 0:40:35.898I think you should come talk here.0:40:35.998 --> 0:40:36.619And I'm like, Sheila,0:40:36.639 --> 0:40:37.340walk me through this.0:40:37.380 --> 0:40:37.760And she's like,0:40:37.780 --> 0:40:39.181you have people who know stuff.0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:40.541I go, okay.0:40:40.942 --> 0:40:41.362And she goes,0:40:41.641 --> 0:40:42.963but they don't have the skill.0:40:43.543 --> 0:40:44.764It's not their primary skill0:40:45.023 --> 0:40:48.005to explain the stuff everywhere.0:40:48.585 --> 0:40:50.407So you do all this work,0:40:50.626 --> 0:40:51.768you get published.0:40:51.788 --> 0:40:52.447Yeah.0:40:52.728 --> 0:40:54.068And that's your end zone?0:40:54.108 --> 0:40:54.728You're done?0:40:54.768 --> 0:40:55.608And then you just go back0:40:55.648 --> 0:40:57.150and receive another kickoff, right?0:40:57.489 --> 0:40:57.889No.0:40:58.130 --> 0:40:58.451Yes.0:40:58.510 --> 0:40:59.871You've hit the end zone,0:40:59.911 --> 0:41:01.831and now it's time to kick the extra point,0:41:01.851 --> 0:41:04.012which is how do I kick this extra point,0:41:04.072 --> 0:41:06.034which is the knowledge into the stands.0:41:06.554 --> 0:41:07.755But if you're not given the tools,0:41:07.795 --> 0:41:09.034the training, and time to do it,0:41:09.175 --> 0:41:09.876how can we fault0:41:09.936 --> 0:41:11.556researchers for not doing it?0:41:11.596 --> 0:41:12.516Of course they're not going to do it.0:41:12.536 --> 0:41:13.597They don't have the tools or any time.0:41:14.038 --> 0:41:14.938So I'm going to go teach0:41:14.978 --> 0:41:16.679people in however long I have,0:41:16.699 --> 0:41:17.418because Sheila said, well,0:41:17.438 --> 0:41:18.119how long do you need?0:41:18.159 --> 0:41:18.920I was like, I don't know.0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:20.239You haven't given me my task yet.0:41:20.340 --> 0:41:21.541I don't know the audience well enough.0:41:22.070 --> 0:41:22.971So I want her to keep0:41:23.030 --> 0:41:25.432pushing me between now and CSM.0:41:26.373 --> 0:41:27.273What do they actually care about?0:41:27.353 --> 0:41:28.634I can go pontificate on0:41:28.773 --> 0:41:30.215communication theory, yada, yada.0:41:30.235 --> 0:41:31.394But if that's going to fall on deaf ears,0:41:31.414 --> 0:41:32.275I don't want to say it.0:41:32.896 --> 0:41:34.416So we're working together to0:41:34.496 --> 0:41:36.577satisfy her because she's a researcher.0:41:36.657 --> 0:41:37.797And then I'll say, okay,0:41:37.998 --> 0:41:39.318you're the middle of my bell curve.0:41:39.358 --> 0:41:41.780If I satisfy you, I'll satisfy as many,0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:43.581you know, however many I can.0:41:44.221 --> 0:41:45.422And if I recall correctly,0:41:45.461 --> 0:41:46.742she's at a University of Wisconsin,0:41:46.782 --> 0:41:47.021right?0:41:47.041 --> 0:41:47.943I believe so.0:41:48.567 --> 0:41:48.786Yeah.0:41:49.206 --> 0:41:50.788So she already does a great0:41:50.847 --> 0:41:52.028job translating because I'm0:41:52.108 --> 0:41:53.228pretty certain that I get0:41:53.329 --> 0:41:55.909an occasional newsletter from her.0:41:56.351 --> 0:41:57.471She does a great job with that.0:41:57.710 --> 0:41:58.572And I think that'll be0:41:58.632 --> 0:41:59.871exceptional that you'll be0:41:59.931 --> 0:42:02.333able to compliment that so nicely.0:42:02.574 --> 0:42:03.193I'll look forward to0:42:03.253 --> 0:42:06.335attending that if I have the opportunity.0:42:06.574 --> 0:42:07.916And I'm going to give you 210:42:07.916 --> 0:42:09.396minutes for it maximum right now.0:42:09.496 --> 0:42:09.757Good.0:42:09.777 --> 0:42:10.356See?0:42:10.976 --> 0:42:11.838Think about that.0:42:12.458 --> 0:42:14.018If I say I'm going to teach0:42:14.097 --> 0:42:15.559a really great lesson that0:42:15.659 --> 0:42:17.358someone is also going to be0:42:17.398 --> 0:42:18.318able to digest,0:42:18.659 --> 0:42:21.059because if I this is this0:42:21.119 --> 0:42:22.739is the analogy that I that0:42:22.780 --> 0:42:24.980I say I could be the most efficient,0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:26.240cost effective third grade0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:27.400teacher that's ever existed.0:42:27.621 --> 0:42:28.340I could teach the whole damn0:42:28.380 --> 0:42:29.340syllabus in a week and a half.0:42:29.621 --> 0:42:30.460Not a kid in the room will0:42:30.481 --> 0:42:31.481understand what the hell I'm saying,0:42:32.001 --> 0:42:32.882but I've done it.0:42:32.981 --> 0:42:34.202So the goal of communication0:42:34.262 --> 0:42:35.561is not to have communicated.0:42:36.001 --> 0:42:37.141The goal of communication is0:42:37.202 --> 0:42:38.262to achieve understanding0:42:38.302 --> 0:42:39.382for the audience to achieve0:42:39.402 --> 0:42:39.902understanding.0:42:40.123 --> 0:42:40.922And that means you say0:42:40.983 --> 0:42:43.005something and 60% of the room gets it.0:42:43.824 --> 0:42:44.12540% didn't.0:42:44.144 --> 0:42:44.666So, okay,0:42:45.166 --> 0:42:46.527I'm seeing some looks on your faces.0:42:46.567 --> 0:42:47.726Let me say this a different way.0:42:48.307 --> 0:42:49.807Okay, I'm seeing a couple.0:42:49.927 --> 0:42:51.809Let me come one-on-one to a couple of you.0:42:52.309 --> 0:42:54.411So that's one-to-many.0:42:54.650 --> 0:42:55.972If you're doing one-to-many,0:42:56.112 --> 0:42:57.393could you craft a message0:42:57.413 --> 0:42:59.134where a lot of people get0:42:59.173 --> 0:42:59.833it the first time?0:42:59.914 --> 0:43:00.114Yes,0:43:00.173 --> 0:43:01.914it's called a TED Talk because you've0:43:01.954 --> 0:43:03.416refined it, refined it, refined it,0:43:03.456 --> 0:43:03.835refined it.0:43:04.416 --> 0:43:05.516But the thing about mass0:43:05.556 --> 0:43:07.157communication now is, I mean,0:43:07.177 --> 0:43:09.284when did you do that talk in 2020?0:43:09.284 --> 0:43:09.945Yeah, January of 20.0:43:10.664 --> 0:43:14.128Ballpark, how many views has it gotten?0:43:14.248 --> 0:43:15.909Ballpark is probably only0:43:15.989 --> 0:43:16.509something in the0:43:16.528 --> 0:43:18.130neighborhood of 12,000 or 13,000.0:43:18.130 --> 0:43:21.052I introduced it at one of0:43:21.092 --> 0:43:23.355the worst times that could ever be done.0:43:25.856 --> 0:43:27.157It got introduced in March0:43:27.217 --> 0:43:29.338of 2020 after doing it in January.0:43:29.358 --> 0:43:30.940I was like, okay,0:43:31.219 --> 0:43:32.161you guys are all on to0:43:32.221 --> 0:43:33.661different topics right now.0:43:33.681 --> 0:43:35.744You were competing with Tiger King.0:43:36.257 --> 0:43:37.099Oh, yeah, yeah.0:43:37.219 --> 0:43:37.759Which is different.0:43:37.838 --> 0:43:38.099Yes.0:43:38.518 --> 0:43:39.380But, you know,0:43:40.079 --> 0:43:41.221I work with a lot of organizations,0:43:41.260 --> 0:43:42.460help them launch podcasts0:43:42.501 --> 0:43:44.001or YouTube channels, and people will say,0:43:44.021 --> 0:43:45.063yeah, we're getting, you know,0:43:45.063 --> 0:43:46.503500 downloads a month.0:43:46.583 --> 0:43:48.764And I'm like, go to your local theater,0:43:49.445 --> 0:43:49.565right?0:43:49.585 --> 0:43:51.025Because it's also specific, right?0:43:51.126 --> 0:43:51.226Like,0:43:51.246 --> 0:43:52.327most of the stuff I do is healthcare.0:43:52.887 --> 0:43:53.867Go to your local theater in0:43:53.887 --> 0:43:55.628your town that holds 5000:43:55.628 --> 0:43:57.510people and then picture 500 people0:43:57.510 --> 0:44:00.190500 of the right people,0:44:00.351 --> 0:44:01.251like 500 physical0:44:01.371 --> 0:44:02.992therapists or 500 neuro0:44:03.072 --> 0:44:03.793physical therapists.0:44:04.313 --> 0:44:05.594They're listening, reading,0:44:05.855 --> 0:44:07.275watching every month.0:44:07.856 --> 0:44:08.257So it's like,0:44:08.536 --> 0:44:09.336and the funny part with0:44:09.496 --> 0:44:10.878especially YouTube is that0:44:10.918 --> 0:44:12.579thing's got 12,000 views now.0:44:13.300 --> 0:44:14.940It only takes one little0:44:15.061 --> 0:44:16.442nudge on that ridiculous0:44:16.661 --> 0:44:19.043algorithm to become a hockey stick.0:44:19.083 --> 0:44:20.043And next thing you know,0:44:20.063 --> 0:44:21.344it's got a million.0:44:21.364 --> 0:44:23.467I was reviewing my YouTube data.0:44:23.626 --> 0:44:24.586I did not,0:44:24.947 --> 0:44:26.489I pushed off and resisted0:44:26.509 --> 0:44:27.568YouTube because I'm a radio0:44:27.608 --> 0:44:28.250guy and I just want,0:44:28.590 --> 0:44:29.771to do the voice right now my0:44:29.791 --> 0:44:30.550buddies are like you gotta0:44:30.570 --> 0:44:31.831do it's just youtube right0:44:32.411 --> 0:44:35.193yeah I got 1500 views on0:44:35.373 --> 0:44:37.074one video on a couple0:44:37.094 --> 0:44:38.115videos last night between0:44:38.315 --> 0:44:39.115one and two o'clock in the0:44:39.157 --> 0:44:40.717morning I cannot tell you0:44:40.777 --> 0:44:42.539why but that is not what I0:44:42.559 --> 0:44:43.739would have guessed in the0:44:43.778 --> 0:44:44.920last 24 hours I would have0:44:44.940 --> 0:44:46.860had a bunch of views but I0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:49.463did youtube for six eight months with0:44:50.063 --> 0:44:50.443Nothing.0:44:50.864 --> 0:44:53.86710, 12 views, and then one thing pops.0:44:54.288 --> 0:44:55.349It's Netflix and chill.0:44:55.469 --> 0:44:56.670I find a show.0:44:56.690 --> 0:44:57.751Oh, what's that?0:44:57.811 --> 0:44:59.132Now I go back and I binge0:44:59.293 --> 0:45:01.775the first 12 seasons that didn't pop.0:45:01.835 --> 0:45:03.998So the internet's wild with that.0:45:04.237 --> 0:45:04.838It is, yeah.0:45:04.918 --> 0:45:05.840I'm fascinated by it.0:45:06.099 --> 0:45:07.141But something else that0:45:07.161 --> 0:45:08.623fascinates me about our0:45:08.682 --> 0:45:09.724conversation here is you0:45:09.764 --> 0:45:10.885talk about being able to0:45:11.346 --> 0:45:12.306read the audience,0:45:12.365 --> 0:45:14.606and then reposition0:45:14.646 --> 0:45:16.186according to the faces you're seeing.0:45:16.586 --> 0:45:18.327I think we actually need to0:45:18.748 --> 0:45:20.547have some way of doing the0:45:20.608 --> 0:45:21.527same type of thing when0:45:21.568 --> 0:45:22.407we're doing a remote0:45:22.447 --> 0:45:23.387continuing education.0:45:23.768 --> 0:45:24.648I mean, Jimmy, right now,0:45:24.668 --> 0:45:28.108I probably give 40% of the0:45:28.289 --> 0:45:30.929day long or as small as0:45:31.090 --> 0:45:32.949three hour long webinars0:45:33.409 --> 0:45:34.971that I give will actually0:45:34.990 --> 0:45:36.411be delivered from the very0:45:36.490 --> 0:45:37.690chair that I'm sitting in0:45:37.851 --> 0:45:39.572right here in Las Vegas, Nevada.0:45:42.105 --> 0:45:43.947not being able to see all of0:45:44.007 --> 0:45:45.489those faces across the screen,0:45:45.530 --> 0:45:47.552because if I've got my PowerPoint up,0:45:47.652 --> 0:45:49.315I need to pin my video so I0:45:49.355 --> 0:45:50.516can only see my video.0:45:50.876 --> 0:45:52.179I can't see the other day.0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:54.583I talked to 1700 people on a0:45:54.643 --> 0:45:56.224webinar that I was delivering.0:46:00.322 --> 0:46:02.105That was a three-hour webinar.0:46:02.625 --> 0:46:04.067I talked to 1,700 people0:46:04.146 --> 0:46:05.588across the world on that,0:46:05.889 --> 0:46:07.391but I didn't get to see any of them.0:46:07.871 --> 0:46:09.873So it's very difficult for0:46:09.994 --> 0:46:11.675me as an engager,0:46:12.056 --> 0:46:13.338as a person that likes to0:46:13.498 --> 0:46:14.659interact and see,0:46:15.059 --> 0:46:16.081it's very difficult for me0:46:16.161 --> 0:46:16.802to be able to see0:46:17.954 --> 0:46:20.077Am I hitting this message okay?0:46:20.318 --> 0:46:20.518I mean,0:46:20.539 --> 0:46:22.320I'm getting flooded with questions.0:46:22.420 --> 0:46:22.981That's good.0:46:23.041 --> 0:46:24.483That's one objective sign.0:46:24.864 --> 0:46:26.407I can see that I'm engaging people.0:46:26.447 --> 0:46:28.028And I look at the fervor of the questions.0:46:28.068 --> 0:46:29.351Yeah, they're interested.0:46:29.391 --> 0:46:30.793They want to know more, et cetera.0:46:30.833 --> 0:46:31.313That's great.0:46:32.402 --> 0:46:33.864But sometimes you can just0:46:33.905 --> 0:46:35.766hit an audience of0:46:35.847 --> 0:46:36.927individuals at a different0:46:36.987 --> 0:46:38.851sector or a different country,0:46:39.311 --> 0:46:41.454and their approach is not0:46:41.494 --> 0:46:42.454to ask questions.0:46:42.934 --> 0:46:43.356So I'm like,0:46:43.936 --> 0:46:45.297this is going to be hard for0:46:45.338 --> 0:46:47.099me to stay engaged here for0:46:47.119 --> 0:46:49.163the next seven hours and 15 minutes.0:46:49.443 --> 0:46:50.143How do we do that?0:46:50.922 --> 0:46:53.362So there's a thing that I coined.0:46:53.643 --> 0:46:55.423It's called empty room syndrome.0:46:55.844 --> 0:46:59.065So I would teach bartenders,0:46:59.945 --> 0:47:01.786supermarket checkout counter people,0:47:02.005 --> 0:47:03.547car salesmen how to become broadcasters.0:47:03.887 --> 0:47:05.847You would find radio people everywhere.0:47:05.907 --> 0:47:06.507They need to be people.0:47:07.487 --> 0:47:09.588And the idea was in between0:47:09.688 --> 0:47:10.909Pearl Jam and Nickelback,0:47:11.070 --> 0:47:12.951you would say something witty or funny,0:47:13.130 --> 0:47:13.251right?0:47:13.271 --> 0:47:14.331You would try to interject0:47:14.452 --> 0:47:15.592in between songs.0:47:16.132 --> 0:47:17.193And a lot of times what I0:47:17.273 --> 0:47:19.594kept seeing people do, different people,0:47:19.653 --> 0:47:20.974so it must be a thing, right?0:47:21.014 --> 0:47:23.115Psychology, is they kept trying,0:47:23.396 --> 0:47:25.157they would hit the punchline,0:47:25.257 --> 0:47:25.958their zinger,0:47:26.878 --> 0:47:28.239And then they'd hit it.0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:29.340They tried to hit it again.0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:30.942Or maybe they'd go around0:47:30.961 --> 0:47:32.003the block a third time.0:47:32.023 --> 0:47:33.304I called it going around the block.0:47:33.384 --> 0:47:34.324And I still laugh.0:47:34.385 --> 0:47:34.746I forget it.0:47:35.005 --> 0:47:35.186Sure.0:47:35.545 --> 0:47:36.967And I had to remind them0:47:37.507 --> 0:47:39.550that if what you said was funny,0:47:40.150 --> 0:47:40.731they laughed.0:47:40.931 --> 0:47:41.572You couldn't hear them0:47:41.612 --> 0:47:42.632because you're in a room by0:47:42.652 --> 0:47:43.653yourself talking into a0:47:43.693 --> 0:47:45.376microphone and they're out there.0:47:46.617 --> 0:47:47.538If they didn't laugh,0:47:47.597 --> 0:47:48.639you saying it a second time0:47:48.818 --> 0:47:49.500ain't going to fix it.0:47:50.001 --> 0:47:51.463And if they did laugh the first time,0:47:51.543 --> 0:47:52.724you just ruined it by0:47:52.784 --> 0:47:54.485saying it a second or a third time.0:47:54.706 --> 0:47:56.108I would call it empty room syndrome.0:47:56.407 --> 0:48:00.432But that hurt me as a guy who interacts.0:48:00.572 --> 0:48:01.393So as you were saying this,0:48:01.414 --> 0:48:02.295I was nodding left.0:48:02.416 --> 0:48:03.516Here's how I solved it.0:48:05.382 --> 0:48:06.983The budget was not going to0:48:07.003 --> 0:48:08.045let me to have a co-host.0:48:08.105 --> 0:48:09.045I was the afternoon guy.0:48:09.106 --> 0:48:10.568Afternoon guys are in literacy solo.0:48:10.907 --> 0:48:11.688Didn't say anything.0:48:11.708 --> 0:48:13.190And there was always like0:48:13.291 --> 0:48:14.391six or seven colleges0:48:14.452 --> 0:48:15.574around where I was in radio0:48:15.614 --> 0:48:16.875for the longest in0:48:16.894 --> 0:48:17.775Northeast Pennsylvania.0:48:18.135 --> 0:48:19.318So I would put out the word0:48:19.378 --> 0:48:20.719for interns all the time.0:48:21.500 --> 0:48:23.081I will teach you whatever you want.0:48:23.442 --> 0:48:24.483I just need you to stand0:48:24.523 --> 0:48:25.503there for a couple hours0:48:25.603 --> 0:48:26.485and hang out with me.0:48:26.644 --> 0:48:27.425There you go.0:48:27.626 --> 0:48:29.126I would have a cycle of interns.0:48:29.166 --> 0:48:29.807Who's going to be on there?0:48:30.288 --> 0:48:30.989It literally was,0:48:31.048 --> 0:48:32.730can you make eye contact with me?0:48:33.391 --> 0:48:34.472And if I say something,0:48:34.512 --> 0:48:35.353it was even better if the0:48:35.393 --> 0:48:37.313person didn't just laugh0:48:37.353 --> 0:48:38.775all the time because I had to pardon it.0:48:39.155 --> 0:48:39.356Yeah.0:48:39.556 --> 0:48:40.657And it's amazing what eye0:48:40.717 --> 0:48:42.619contact and body language can do.0:48:43.099 --> 0:48:43.599Even me.0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:45.242So you mentioned COVID.0:48:45.262 --> 0:48:45.481Yeah.0:48:45.961 --> 0:48:47.742I did everything just audio.0:48:47.983 --> 0:48:48.943And then COVID sort of0:48:48.963 --> 0:48:50.922brought about everything0:48:50.963 --> 0:48:52.324Zoom and Teams and this.0:48:52.364 --> 0:48:53.224And then I figured out how0:48:53.244 --> 0:48:54.063to hook up my audio0:48:54.083 --> 0:48:55.605equipment to this camera0:48:55.644 --> 0:48:57.744thing and just making eye0:48:57.804 --> 0:49:00.385contact with you here and you nodding.0:49:00.425 --> 0:49:01.766I'm not wondering, am I boring him?0:49:01.786 --> 0:49:02.286Is he bored?0:49:02.306 --> 0:49:02.907Is he want to hang up?0:49:02.927 --> 0:49:03.286Are we done?0:49:04.047 --> 0:49:05.068I didn't have to worry about0:49:05.088 --> 0:49:05.668that anymore because I0:49:05.688 --> 0:49:07.190could see you smile or make0:49:07.289 --> 0:49:09.032eye contact or when you0:49:09.072 --> 0:49:09.731want to interrupt.0:49:09.791 --> 0:49:10.813Oh,0:49:10.833 --> 0:49:12.474you wave your finger and you lean in0:49:12.494 --> 0:49:14.356because that's what people do.0:49:14.715 --> 0:49:17.358And it's amazing how our brains are wired,0:49:17.438 --> 0:49:18.458but it's also not amazing0:49:18.478 --> 0:49:19.820because we're animals and0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:21.442we're wired this way.0:49:21.461 --> 0:49:22.061Oh, that's right.0:49:22.161 --> 0:49:22.802Not weird at all.0:49:23.567 --> 0:49:23.766Yeah.0:49:23.987 --> 0:49:25.188And that's the thing is that0:49:25.228 --> 0:49:27.568I think we don't teach this0:49:27.628 --> 0:49:28.849in physical therapy school0:49:28.909 --> 0:49:30.409because across the things that I've done,0:49:30.530 --> 0:49:31.409continuing education,0:49:31.469 --> 0:49:32.190I've also been an0:49:32.311 --> 0:49:36.092academician on a few different realms.0:49:36.492 --> 0:49:38.112And I don't know that we're0:49:38.213 --> 0:49:40.253doing that education in0:49:40.574 --> 0:49:41.514physical therapy because we0:49:41.534 --> 0:49:43.994have to cram so much content in.0:49:44.014 --> 0:49:45.976Are we actually teaching the0:49:46.096 --> 0:49:47.876people that are going to be0:49:47.936 --> 0:49:49.317representing our profession0:49:49.617 --> 0:49:50.657to be communicators?0:49:50.677 --> 0:49:51.097Yeah.0:49:51.257 --> 0:49:53.179to be able to read the nonverbals,0:49:53.539 --> 0:49:55.681to be able to pause, to wait a second.0:49:55.922 --> 0:49:57.822You just asked way too many0:49:57.882 --> 0:49:58.943different questions within0:49:59.083 --> 0:50:01.246one paragraph for this individual.0:50:01.525 --> 0:50:02.286Read the nonverbals.0:50:02.306 --> 0:50:03.226Because some people,0:50:03.608 --> 0:50:04.748if they're not receiving you well,0:50:04.829 --> 0:50:05.389they light up.0:50:05.668 --> 0:50:06.190And some people,0:50:06.210 --> 0:50:07.329if they're not receiving you well,0:50:07.630 --> 0:50:08.411they turn it down.0:50:08.431 --> 0:50:09.811You've got to be able to know that.0:50:09.972 --> 0:50:10.693And what do you do?0:50:11.032 --> 0:50:12.875So thanks for the radio0:50:12.914 --> 0:50:13.795segue and the setup.0:50:13.875 --> 0:50:15.797So I'm piloting this in 2024.0:50:15.936 --> 0:50:17.557And because you're in0:50:17.577 --> 0:50:18.838education and we're recording,0:50:18.978 --> 0:50:20.199why not just do a real thing?0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:22.981I do my show live at PT0:50:23.001 --> 0:50:24.081programs from now from,0:50:24.222 --> 0:50:24.882from time to time.0:50:24.922 --> 0:50:25.043Right.0:50:25.063 --> 0:50:25.503It's fun.0:50:25.543 --> 0:50:27.083Live studio audience, yada, yada.0:50:27.284 --> 0:50:28.184And we yuck it up sound0:50:28.224 --> 0:50:29.465effects and all night.0:50:29.985 --> 0:50:30.144Yeah.0:50:30.465 --> 0:50:31.246I'm usually there.0:50:31.326 --> 0:50:31.965If I fly,0:50:32.065 --> 0:50:33.327I'm there the whole day and I'm0:50:33.387 --> 0:50:34.007sitting there going,0:50:34.266 --> 0:50:35.827I bet you I could like teach something.0:50:35.847 --> 0:50:36.668Like, wouldn't that be fun?0:50:36.688 --> 0:50:38.949I don't have a, I'm not an education,0:50:38.969 --> 0:50:40.230but like there's something I could teach.0:50:40.389 --> 0:50:42.990So I'm putting together sort of a module.0:50:43.030 --> 0:50:44.092I don't know how long it's going to be.0:50:44.192 --> 0:50:44.992It's only going to be as0:50:45.032 --> 0:50:45.871long as it needs to be though.0:50:45.891 --> 0:50:46.652I'll tell you that much.0:50:46.873 --> 0:50:47.052Right.0:50:47.253 --> 0:50:48.653Parkinson's law.0:50:49.275 --> 0:50:50.737And the course that I'm coming up with,0:50:50.757 --> 0:50:51.277because you come up with0:50:51.297 --> 0:50:52.038the headline first,0:50:52.057 --> 0:50:53.079because we learned start0:50:53.099 --> 0:50:53.699with the end in mind,0:50:54.579 --> 0:50:57.704is Science Isn't Finished0:50:57.724 --> 0:50:58.543Until It's Understood.0:50:58.724 --> 0:50:59.445That's the title.0:51:00.204 --> 0:51:01.144Because it's not done until0:51:01.164 --> 0:51:01.525you understand.0:51:01.545 --> 0:51:02.606So just just because Mike0:51:02.706 --> 0:51:04.005knows it and he said it to0:51:04.045 --> 0:51:05.166me doesn't mean I understand it.0:51:05.385 --> 0:51:06.045You're not done.0:51:06.065 --> 0:51:08.126The onus is still on you to0:51:08.266 --> 0:51:10.047read that nonverbal to go.0:51:10.067 --> 0:51:10.447I don't.0:51:10.688 --> 0:51:11.168Do you understand?0:51:11.188 --> 0:51:12.228Can you can you give that0:51:12.268 --> 0:51:13.027back to me or whatever?0:51:13.047 --> 0:51:14.248A lot of tips and tricks and tools.0:51:14.309 --> 0:51:14.548Right.0:51:14.748 --> 0:51:16.228The sub headline is so the0:51:16.449 --> 0:51:17.389title is science isn't0:51:17.409 --> 0:51:18.309finished until it's understood.0:51:18.570 --> 0:51:19.949Why are these soft skills so damn hard?0:51:20.668 --> 0:51:21.028Yeah.0:51:21.289 --> 0:51:22.429Because we call them soft skills.0:51:22.449 --> 0:51:23.550They must be easy.0:51:24.050 --> 0:51:24.490And, you know,0:51:24.530 --> 0:51:25.431you speak English and the0:51:25.471 --> 0:51:26.871patient speaks English.0:51:26.911 --> 0:51:28.932So where's the disconnect?0:51:28.992 --> 0:51:29.213It's like,0:51:29.632 --> 0:51:31.114have you ever interviewed someone before?0:51:31.134 --> 0:51:31.173No.0:51:31.954 --> 0:51:34.096Do you know the bad way to do it?0:51:34.335 --> 0:51:35.856Are there right and wrong ways to do it?0:51:35.936 --> 0:51:36.916Is there only one way?0:51:37.137 --> 0:51:37.396No.0:51:37.536 --> 0:51:38.518Are there right and wrong ways?0:51:38.657 --> 0:51:38.938No, there's...0:51:39.478 --> 0:51:40.797landmines you can step on or0:51:40.858 --> 0:51:41.978things that are better so0:51:42.378 --> 0:51:43.639so my goal is when I do0:51:43.938 --> 0:51:44.858these live things if I'm0:51:45.079 --> 0:51:47.219already on campus like hey0:51:47.280 --> 0:51:48.460could I host an elective0:51:48.500 --> 0:51:49.541for a couple hours where0:51:49.581 --> 0:51:50.721like yeah I'm gonna use0:51:50.800 --> 0:51:52.240chris voss as my textbook0:51:52.561 --> 0:51:54.161I'm gonna use movie clips0:51:54.181 --> 0:51:56.362from the movie inception or0:51:56.742 --> 0:51:57.983uh or you know good morning0:51:58.043 --> 0:51:59.603vietnam like why are you0:51:59.663 --> 0:52:00.483doing that it's because0:52:00.603 --> 0:52:01.804they're highlighting really0:52:01.844 --> 0:52:04.023great skills can I use0:52:04.083 --> 0:52:05.344multimedia to teach that0:52:05.364 --> 0:52:05.965the answer is yes0:52:06.570 --> 0:52:07.971Yeah, yeah, absolutely.0:52:08.291 --> 0:52:08.811I love that.0:52:08.891 --> 0:52:11.672And I'm always resistant to0:52:13.034 --> 0:52:15.574pitch anything or to plug anything.0:52:15.614 --> 0:52:17.115I don't have a book for sale, et cetera.0:52:17.637 --> 0:52:20.117But on an unnamed continuing0:52:20.157 --> 0:52:23.480education provider site in January,0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:25.141I'm actually teaching a0:52:25.240 --> 0:52:25.981course that's actually0:52:26.021 --> 0:52:26.942called the soft skills.0:52:27.322 --> 0:52:27.902Is it really?0:52:28.282 --> 0:52:28.882Yes, it is, 100%.0:52:28.983 --> 0:52:31.485And so it's a three segment0:52:31.605 --> 0:52:33.266course that looks at the0:52:33.346 --> 0:52:34.447initial examination,0:52:35.666 --> 0:52:37.507progress examination, treatment,0:52:37.927 --> 0:52:39.407home exercise program,0:52:39.487 --> 0:52:41.527delivery slash discharge management.0:52:41.827 --> 0:52:42.967And we look at those three0:52:42.987 --> 0:52:44.268across three courses0:52:44.648 --> 0:52:46.108because it's a passion of mine.0:52:46.369 --> 0:52:47.289You can say where it's from.0:52:47.349 --> 0:52:47.849It's okay.0:52:48.228 --> 0:52:48.829It's MedBridge.0:52:49.130 --> 0:52:50.050That's what I figured.0:52:50.110 --> 0:52:51.469When you said unnamed, I was like,0:52:51.510 --> 0:52:51.769come on.0:52:51.809 --> 0:52:52.030Yeah.0:52:52.210 --> 0:52:52.831Yeah.0:52:52.891 --> 0:52:53.811So I'm doing that.0:52:54.090 --> 0:52:55.650I think I go up there and I0:52:55.731 --> 0:52:57.751actually film in studio.0:52:58.807 --> 0:53:00.168on January 9th.0:53:00.568 --> 0:53:01.429So it probably won't be0:53:01.509 --> 0:53:03.650released until early March or so.0:53:04.411 --> 0:53:05.891And I'm so excited because0:53:05.951 --> 0:53:08.172I've got patient experience0:53:08.211 --> 0:53:09.753where I'm not just talking bullet points.0:53:09.793 --> 0:53:10.693This is what you do.0:53:11.152 --> 0:53:12.213I've actually created0:53:13.074 --> 0:53:14.054interactive experiences0:53:14.094 --> 0:53:15.275where we've got models and0:53:15.315 --> 0:53:17.536I actually display, all right,0:53:17.695 --> 0:53:19.456here's how you show vicarious.0:53:19.476 --> 0:53:21.217Here's how you show tactical empathy,0:53:21.277 --> 0:53:21.998those types of things.0:53:22.757 --> 0:53:23.978Uh, you know, those, uh, you know,0:53:24.298 --> 0:53:25.539the analogies of what I0:53:25.579 --> 0:53:26.539just learned from you, et cetera.0:53:26.559 --> 0:53:27.541It's vital, man,0:53:27.780 --> 0:53:29.782because you could know so much,0:53:30.302 --> 0:53:32.262but if you can't communicate it, you know,0:53:32.342 --> 0:53:33.764I mean, I, somebody said it best.0:53:33.864 --> 0:53:34.443You could write the,0:53:34.543 --> 0:53:35.204you could have the greatest0:53:35.224 --> 0:53:36.244song ever written in your head,0:53:36.784 --> 0:53:38.206but if you can't get it out,0:53:38.226 --> 0:53:38.965it doesn't matter.0:53:39.786 --> 0:53:39.987Yep.0:53:40.347 --> 0:53:40.847Doesn't matter.0:53:40.867 --> 0:53:41.806You got all the ball to all0:53:41.827 --> 0:53:42.648the way to the one yard0:53:42.668 --> 0:53:43.527line and you couldn't punch0:53:43.568 --> 0:53:44.248it in because you couldn't0:53:44.289 --> 0:53:44.829communicate it.0:53:45.202 --> 0:53:45.782Yeah, yeah.0:53:46.043 --> 0:53:48.146And related to that is they0:53:48.166 --> 0:53:48.927don't care how much you0:53:48.967 --> 0:53:50.268know until they know how much you care.0:53:50.730 --> 0:53:53.713So, you know, that ability to be able to0:53:54.827 --> 0:53:57.547listen and display empathy,0:53:57.628 --> 0:54:00.108communicate it in a very realistic,0:54:00.248 --> 0:54:01.748non-pandering manner.0:54:02.429 --> 0:54:04.429And one of the secrets that0:54:04.449 --> 0:54:06.168I'll tell you that I've had0:54:06.268 --> 0:54:09.949over 33 years is somehow I0:54:10.030 --> 0:54:11.550figure out a way to learn0:54:11.731 --> 0:54:13.550something about an0:54:13.590 --> 0:54:14.791individual that they've0:54:14.851 --> 0:54:16.431told me that I don't put in0:54:16.472 --> 0:54:17.371their medical record.0:54:18.152 --> 0:54:19.773And then I play that again0:54:19.853 --> 0:54:21.675for them either later that0:54:21.735 --> 0:54:24.097session or what really floors them.0:54:24.536 --> 0:54:25.918If I bring that up to them a0:54:25.978 --> 0:54:28.119couple sessions from now, wait a second,0:54:28.159 --> 0:54:29.561you must have been listening to me.0:54:29.961 --> 0:54:31.543How did you remember that my0:54:31.583 --> 0:54:33.023husband and I were going to0:54:33.103 --> 0:54:34.945my grandson's baseball0:54:34.985 --> 0:54:36.306tournament in Tennessee0:54:36.427 --> 0:54:37.668over the weekend and you0:54:37.788 --> 0:54:38.548asked me about it?0:54:39.028 --> 0:54:39.309Boom.0:54:39.909 --> 0:54:40.030Well,0:54:40.050 --> 0:54:42.012I think there's secrets to patient0:54:42.032 --> 0:54:42.512engagement.0:54:42.652 --> 0:54:44.114I think it was Oprah that0:54:44.195 --> 0:54:46.077said people want to be seen, heard,0:54:46.117 --> 0:54:46.737and understood.0:54:46.818 --> 0:54:49.099And if you can, I see you, I hear you,0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:49.860I understand you,0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:50.782or I attempt to understand.0:54:50.802 --> 0:54:51.262And this is like,0:54:51.282 --> 0:54:52.903and I had my buddy who's a0:54:52.923 --> 0:54:54.166psychologist on once.0:54:54.226 --> 0:54:54.666And I said,0:54:54.706 --> 0:54:56.188pick a topic that healthcare0:54:56.208 --> 0:54:57.329providers understand.0:54:57.728 --> 0:54:59.088mess up or don't get right0:54:59.108 --> 0:55:00.289when treating patients and0:55:00.329 --> 0:55:01.510he's a psychologist who0:55:01.650 --> 0:55:03.112educates psychology0:55:03.152 --> 0:55:05.152students at thomas0:55:05.193 --> 0:55:06.373jefferson university so he0:55:06.474 --> 0:55:07.875also treats health care0:55:07.894 --> 0:55:10.217providers on campus and he0:55:10.257 --> 0:55:11.436said empathy and sympathy0:55:11.797 --> 0:55:13.539and I go well yeah they're0:55:13.559 --> 0:55:14.980like the same and he goes0:55:15.420 --> 0:55:16.460you know how words work two0:55:16.481 --> 0:55:17.161different words means two0:55:17.181 --> 0:55:17.802different meanings they0:55:17.822 --> 0:55:18.342might be similar but0:55:18.362 --> 0:55:19.503they're not the same and he0:55:19.523 --> 0:55:21.224sort of described it as I0:55:21.264 --> 0:55:22.704can never have sympathy for0:55:22.724 --> 0:55:23.726someone who's given birth0:55:24.266 --> 0:55:25.786because I have never given birth.0:55:26.065 --> 0:55:27.467I can have empathy for it,0:55:27.806 --> 0:55:28.887but it's got to stop there.0:55:28.927 --> 0:55:30.666Cause if I'm like, I know how, Oh,0:55:31.047 --> 0:55:31.568it's pain.0:55:31.608 --> 0:55:32.427I know how that feels.0:55:32.807 --> 0:55:34.547You know, I broke my finger once.0:55:34.728 --> 0:55:36.449I will get in the face.0:55:36.869 --> 0:55:38.108It's going to go a long way.0:55:38.268 --> 0:55:39.969Mother be like, you do, you know, nothing.0:55:40.010 --> 0:55:41.949Cause I don't, but I can say, listen,0:55:42.050 --> 0:55:44.471I imagine that's really, really difficult,0:55:44.530 --> 0:55:45.150traumatic.0:55:45.431 --> 0:55:47.911And I just amazingly, you know,0:55:48.030 --> 0:55:49.512a lot that's empathy.0:55:50.152 --> 0:55:50.371And I,0:55:51.353 --> 0:55:52.896If you can show, I mean, empathy,0:55:52.936 --> 0:55:53.637the bar is lower.0:55:53.677 --> 0:55:54.639Maybe you do have the same0:55:54.679 --> 0:55:56.744experience as someone and that's sympathy,0:55:57.164 --> 0:55:58.226but empathy, we can,0:55:58.507 --> 0:55:59.929that's a skill you can hone.0:55:59.949 --> 0:56:00.650And that's really what he0:56:00.670 --> 0:56:02.233was sort of like really0:56:02.273 --> 0:56:03.235pushing and communicating.0:56:03.715 --> 0:56:03.894Yeah.0:56:04.094 --> 0:56:07.896And if you fit a third concept in there,0:56:08.617 --> 0:56:10.036you have a way to be able0:56:10.077 --> 0:56:11.297to take someone out of a0:56:11.356 --> 0:56:13.797potential catastrophization0:56:13.878 --> 0:56:14.719cycle because you have0:56:14.759 --> 0:56:15.818vicarious experiences.0:56:16.418 --> 0:56:18.059I've worked with people that0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:20.340have had a similar experience as yours.0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:22.900It's not the same and you're an individual,0:56:23.161 --> 0:56:25.121but here's been my experience.0:56:25.242 --> 0:56:26.422Do you believe that this0:56:26.521 --> 0:56:27.623course that I'm suggesting0:56:27.682 --> 0:56:30.123for you might also be healthy for you?0:56:30.284 --> 0:56:31.463It's worked for these individuals.0:56:31.864 --> 0:56:34.545Because it actually helps to recognize,0:56:34.885 --> 0:56:36.507put us in the context, but also says,0:56:36.748 --> 0:56:37.288here's how we're going to0:56:37.307 --> 0:56:38.309get out of this context.0:56:38.628 --> 0:56:39.230Here's how we're going to0:56:39.250 --> 0:56:41.030move forward with this work for you.0:56:41.512 --> 0:56:44.333This is also like the0:56:44.373 --> 0:56:46.976parallels between communication,0:56:47.556 --> 0:56:48.097healthcare.0:56:48.916 --> 0:56:49.898Donald Miller wrote a book0:56:49.918 --> 0:56:51.119called Building the Story Brand,0:56:51.139 --> 0:56:51.559where he's like,0:56:51.579 --> 0:56:53.681when you write an ad that0:56:53.721 --> 0:56:55.561tells everybody how great you are,0:56:56.182 --> 0:56:57.844they want to say, cool story, bro.0:56:57.943 --> 0:56:58.644Like, good for you.0:56:59.451 --> 0:57:00.753But if you write an ad where0:57:00.893 --> 0:57:03.737I'm the hero and that you're the Yoda,0:57:03.757 --> 0:57:05.619you're the guide that can help me become,0:57:05.699 --> 0:57:07.802go from where I am to where I want to go,0:57:07.983 --> 0:57:08.784I'll pay attention to you.0:57:09.186 --> 0:57:10.768So in a classic one that's0:57:10.788 --> 0:57:12.851in plain sight is Nike's saying,0:57:12.891 --> 0:57:13.771if you want to be an athlete,0:57:13.791 --> 0:57:15.074you know what you have to do?0:57:15.094 --> 0:57:15.414Just do it.0:57:15.862 --> 0:57:16.342Just do it.0:57:16.681 --> 0:57:17.581We don't really make sneakers.0:57:17.601 --> 0:57:18.503They don't really sell sneakers.0:57:18.543 --> 0:57:19.503They sell the chance,0:57:19.722 --> 0:57:21.202the path to becoming an athlete,0:57:21.302 --> 0:57:22.543whatever that means to you.0:57:22.724 --> 0:57:22.963Right.0:57:23.023 --> 0:57:24.483So it's super subtle.0:57:24.563 --> 0:57:26.144And it's like, well, that's a trick.0:57:26.204 --> 0:57:27.204And I go, it is,0:57:27.405 --> 0:57:28.666but it's also not because0:57:28.706 --> 0:57:30.405if I'm ET and they're like, well,0:57:30.425 --> 0:57:31.465I'm an Ironman and I can do0:57:31.505 --> 0:57:33.226this and I can do this and I can do this.0:57:33.726 --> 0:57:34.407It's like, all right, well,0:57:34.427 --> 0:57:35.766this sounds like it's your story.0:57:35.806 --> 0:57:37.427Where do I fit in your story?0:57:37.447 --> 0:57:37.527Yeah.0:57:37.907 --> 0:57:39.528And I put it in context of relationships,0:57:39.548 --> 0:57:39.768you know,0:57:40.028 --> 0:57:41.128and I try to make it funny and0:57:41.148 --> 0:57:42.028poke fun at myself because0:57:42.048 --> 0:57:43.130that's the easiest way to endear.0:57:43.150 --> 0:57:43.849I'm like, you know,0:57:43.929 --> 0:57:44.829freshman year of college,0:57:44.869 --> 0:57:46.170I had some first dates,0:57:46.190 --> 0:57:47.451but no second dates, Mike.0:57:47.471 --> 0:57:48.431I couldn't figure out why.0:57:48.931 --> 0:57:50.092I told every girl I went out0:57:50.112 --> 0:57:50.931with that I was the captain0:57:50.972 --> 0:57:51.992of the hockey team and I0:57:52.032 --> 0:57:53.552was super smart and how0:57:53.632 --> 0:57:54.652great I was on the radio.0:57:54.893 --> 0:57:55.614No second dates.0:57:56.612 --> 0:57:57.855sophomore, junior, senior year,0:57:57.934 --> 0:57:58.896I asked a lot of questions0:57:58.956 --> 0:58:00.079about them and what was0:58:00.119 --> 0:58:00.920important to them.0:58:00.960 --> 0:58:02.282And I just listened a lot,0:58:02.523 --> 0:58:03.485a lot more second dates.0:58:03.744 --> 0:58:04.626Why do you think that is?0:58:04.827 --> 0:58:05.989And when you put it in that context,0:58:06.009 --> 0:58:07.030it's like, well, obviously I go,0:58:07.311 --> 0:58:08.213patient care is the same way.0:58:09.255 --> 0:58:10.536It's another human that's hearing you.0:58:11.262 --> 0:58:12.523Yeah, that's exactly right.0:58:12.623 --> 0:58:15.407I love that experience that0:58:15.447 --> 0:58:16.728you relate back to your0:58:16.768 --> 0:58:18.369dating experiences as well.0:58:18.831 --> 0:58:19.291And, you know,0:58:19.331 --> 0:58:20.893the thing that happens to us0:58:21.012 --> 0:58:23.054in rehabilitation is that0:58:23.494 --> 0:58:26.137sometimes we're so busy in0:58:26.418 --> 0:58:28.320educating and informing and0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:29.862blowing ourselves up and I0:58:29.902 --> 0:58:30.822know how to do this.0:58:31.382 --> 0:58:32.724that we actually miss the0:58:32.764 --> 0:58:34.405fact that we've disengaged the person.0:58:34.465 --> 0:58:36.025So what happens is they go0:58:36.065 --> 0:58:37.005up to the front desk,0:58:37.065 --> 0:58:38.487they follow our instructions,0:58:38.786 --> 0:58:39.807they schedule two times a0:58:39.827 --> 0:58:41.007week for the next four weeks,0:58:41.268 --> 0:58:42.748and then they proceed to no0:58:42.829 --> 0:58:44.130show that next experience0:58:44.409 --> 0:58:45.231because they knew they0:58:45.251 --> 0:58:46.090weren't going to come back.0:58:46.331 --> 0:58:47.891But, you know, whatever.0:58:48.331 --> 0:58:49.293I don't think this is it.0:58:49.353 --> 0:58:51.074Doc, can you send me to somebody else?0:58:51.454 --> 0:58:51.753You know,0:58:51.914 --> 0:58:53.635and we're confused and we say0:58:53.655 --> 0:58:54.376they're noncompliant.0:58:54.914 --> 0:58:55.114Right.0:58:55.474 --> 0:58:55.715Yeah.0:58:55.936 --> 0:58:57.215I've got a terrible caseload.0:58:57.235 --> 0:58:58.717They're noncompliant and et cetera.0:58:58.737 --> 0:59:00.197And that's what my whole soft skill,0:59:01.137 --> 0:59:02.199you know, course is about.0:59:02.318 --> 0:59:03.699It's not about the person.0:59:04.019 --> 0:59:05.201It's about what you're doing0:59:05.260 --> 0:59:06.721to find the individual.0:59:07.262 --> 0:59:08.681And, you know, you know,0:59:09.382 --> 0:59:11.043you talk about Yoda, et cetera.0:59:11.083 --> 0:59:13.565And you talk about Nike and, you know,0:59:13.625 --> 0:59:14.746and all of that is in there.0:59:14.786 --> 0:59:16.206Just giving the individual0:59:16.387 --> 0:59:17.306some limitless0:59:17.367 --> 0:59:19.907possibilities of where I can take you.0:59:20.007 --> 0:59:21.208Show me where you want to go0:59:22.090 --> 0:59:22.710and let's do it.0:59:23.130 --> 0:59:24.012Let's make this about you.0:59:24.152 --> 0:59:24.431All right, Mike,0:59:24.452 --> 0:59:25.652you ready to play three questions?0:59:25.934 --> 0:59:26.474Let's do it.0:59:26.534 --> 0:59:28.155I'm ready for any three questions.0:59:28.275 --> 0:59:30.378With three questions on the PT Pinecast.0:59:30.398 --> 0:59:30.777All right.0:59:30.797 --> 0:59:32.739Three questions from our friends at ATI.0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:33.440They're leading the charge0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:34.501in PT clinical research0:59:34.521 --> 0:59:35.782with more than 900 clinics0:59:35.822 --> 0:59:36.762achieving top marks in0:59:36.824 --> 0:59:38.565CMS's merit-based incentive program.0:59:38.585 --> 0:59:39.686They're the team to join for0:59:39.726 --> 0:59:40.367career growth.0:59:40.447 --> 0:59:44.471Explore opportunities at atipt.com.0:59:44.550 --> 0:59:44.771All right.0:59:44.871 --> 0:59:45.791Three questions.0:59:46.012 --> 0:59:46.612First one.0:59:48.514 --> 0:59:51.019Let's go... Fun fact.0:59:51.059 --> 0:59:52.461If you could have any superpower,0:59:52.501 --> 0:59:53.324what would it be and why?0:59:54.085 --> 0:59:55.146Ooh, superpower.0:59:55.807 --> 0:59:57.010So let's go with...0:59:59.639 --> 1:00:01.219I'm going to go with omniscience.1:00:01.880 --> 1:00:03.481I'm going to go with the1:00:03.541 --> 1:00:05.422ability to know all.1:00:05.681 --> 1:00:06.483Oh, know all.1:00:06.943 --> 1:00:08.262Yeah, yeah.1:00:08.384 --> 1:00:10.224So because I,1:00:10.445 --> 1:00:11.485and I believe I've used the1:00:11.525 --> 1:00:13.545term correctly, being omniscient.1:00:14.847 --> 1:00:16.288You'll have to fact check me1:00:16.347 --> 1:00:16.907on that though.1:00:17.307 --> 1:00:18.548Because I think that I can1:00:18.688 --> 1:00:22.590keep myself healthy, safe,1:00:23.010 --> 1:00:24.211help other people around me,1:00:24.532 --> 1:00:25.771help my patients even1:00:25.831 --> 1:00:27.152better if I'm omniscient.1:00:27.172 --> 1:00:27.954So I'm going to go with that1:00:27.994 --> 1:00:28.693as my superpower.1:00:28.932 --> 1:00:30.273It feels like, you know, Professor X,1:00:30.333 --> 1:00:31.713Charles Xavier was a little omniscient.1:00:31.753 --> 1:00:32.594Yeah, there you go.1:00:32.653 --> 1:00:32.835Yeah.1:00:32.855 --> 1:00:33.375All right.1:00:33.394 --> 1:00:34.454Let's look backwards.1:00:34.735 --> 1:00:35.835What's the most memorable1:00:35.876 --> 1:00:37.315piece of advice that you've1:00:37.416 --> 1:00:39.577received from a mentor or colleague?1:00:39.597 --> 1:00:40.458What's something you thought1:00:40.538 --> 1:00:41.498you were like this stuck?1:00:42.273 --> 1:00:48.117Okay, so in about 1997 or 1998,1:00:48.117 --> 1:00:50.639I was applying for a1:00:50.719 --> 1:00:53.039position within the1:00:53.099 --> 1:00:55.041hospital organization that I was working,1:00:55.681 --> 1:00:56.983and the vice president of1:00:57.023 --> 1:00:58.483the hospital was interviewing me,1:00:58.603 --> 1:00:59.143and he says,1:00:59.925 --> 1:01:02.927I wish you all the good luck1:01:03.086 --> 1:01:04.387that hard work can earn.1:01:06.242 --> 1:01:07.443And that has stuck with me.1:01:07.463 --> 1:01:08.704And that gentleman remains a1:01:08.744 --> 1:01:09.925friend of mine to today.1:01:10.505 --> 1:01:12.405So I understand from that,1:01:13.346 --> 1:01:15.007there's really not so much1:01:15.047 --> 1:01:16.668of a good thing as good luck.1:01:17.208 --> 1:01:18.268Let's see you earn it.1:01:18.307 --> 1:01:19.588Let's see your work ethic.1:01:19.688 --> 1:01:21.269And then that'll put the1:01:21.730 --> 1:01:23.291afforded opportunities in1:01:23.371 --> 1:01:24.831front of you that you think are lucky.1:01:24.971 --> 1:01:26.052So I think that's what I'm1:01:26.072 --> 1:01:26.452going to go with.1:01:26.771 --> 1:01:27.932I heard a quote similar.1:01:27.992 --> 1:01:28.452It was,1:01:28.572 --> 1:01:30.813luck is the dying prayer of the man1:01:30.853 --> 1:01:31.855who believes that success1:01:31.894 --> 1:01:32.755happens by accident.1:01:33.405 --> 1:01:34.106Ah, there you go.1:01:34.126 --> 1:01:35.626Yeah, I totally get that.1:01:35.827 --> 1:01:35.987Yeah.1:01:36.007 --> 1:01:36.467All right.1:01:36.586 --> 1:01:37.626Unexpected choice.1:01:37.726 --> 1:01:39.106If you had to completely1:01:39.688 --> 1:01:40.608switch professions,1:01:40.628 --> 1:01:42.168you had to choose a different profession.1:01:42.208 --> 1:01:42.728What would it be?1:01:42.768 --> 1:01:43.547What intrigues you?1:01:45.208 --> 1:01:46.849If I had to switch right now,1:01:47.268 --> 1:01:48.250it would be different than1:01:48.309 --> 1:01:49.050what if I had to switch1:01:49.070 --> 1:01:50.110because I tried to become a1:01:50.150 --> 1:01:51.030major league baseball1:01:51.050 --> 1:01:52.411player that didn't work.1:01:52.570 --> 1:01:54.090And I can't look back at that now.1:01:54.630 --> 1:01:56.952So one of the things that I1:01:57.072 --> 1:01:58.134really like that you talk1:01:58.173 --> 1:01:59.594about is psychologist.1:02:00.016 --> 1:02:01.817So I probably would look that direction.1:02:02.237 --> 1:02:04.420Behavioral economist would1:02:04.460 --> 1:02:05.561probably be my other things1:02:06.001 --> 1:02:07.061because I tell a lot of1:02:07.121 --> 1:02:08.523people over the course of1:02:09.543 --> 1:02:10.885the 30 years that I've been1:02:11.686 --> 1:02:13.067teaching on a continuing1:02:13.086 --> 1:02:14.969education basis is I'm not1:02:15.068 --> 1:02:16.269actually sure how good of a1:02:16.309 --> 1:02:17.431physical therapist I am.1:02:18.376 --> 1:02:19.795I think I'm actually really1:02:19.835 --> 1:02:21.556good at listening to people1:02:22.277 --> 1:02:24.177and helping them become the1:02:24.237 --> 1:02:25.998best that they can be with1:02:26.059 --> 1:02:27.878the tools that they think1:02:27.938 --> 1:02:29.579and the direction pathway1:02:29.960 --> 1:02:31.079that they think is going to1:02:31.119 --> 1:02:31.699take them there.1:02:31.960 --> 1:02:34.420I think that I can help to maximize people,1:02:34.820 --> 1:02:35.802but I'm not certain that1:02:35.822 --> 1:02:37.202I'm a great physical therapist.1:02:37.601 --> 1:02:39.963So the psychology and1:02:40.043 --> 1:02:41.563behavioral economy actually1:02:41.623 --> 1:02:42.583fit nicely for me there.1:02:42.983 --> 1:02:43.204Yeah.1:02:43.244 --> 1:02:44.144I think it's really interesting.1:02:44.164 --> 1:02:44.304Yeah.1:02:44.324 --> 1:02:46.184I mean, if I had to pick another degree,1:02:46.224 --> 1:02:47.146that one would just be fun,1:02:47.166 --> 1:02:48.646but it is fun to just read these books.1:02:48.706 --> 1:02:50.086Like, like someone like Adam Grant,1:02:50.106 --> 1:02:51.947which I talk about a lot,1:02:52.327 --> 1:02:53.728he makes it very relatable.1:02:53.827 --> 1:02:55.489Like he is talking about these ideas,1:02:55.528 --> 1:02:57.469like Daniel Kahneman talks about things,1:02:57.510 --> 1:02:59.351but I mean, he's super high level.1:02:59.371 --> 1:03:01.050I need to like read a chapter,1:03:01.170 --> 1:03:03.632put it down again with Adam Grant.1:03:03.672 --> 1:03:04.672He sort of knows he's1:03:04.713 --> 1:03:05.532talking to people like me1:03:05.552 --> 1:03:06.132who are a little slow.1:03:06.172 --> 1:03:06.472Yeah.1:03:06.753 --> 1:03:06.954Yeah.1:03:07.014 --> 1:03:07.353All right.1:03:07.373 --> 1:03:07.954Three questions.1:03:08.014 --> 1:03:08.974Last thing we do on the show,1:03:08.994 --> 1:03:10.255Mike is the parting shot.1:03:10.655 --> 1:03:12.396this is the parting shot all1:03:12.436 --> 1:03:13.416right parting shot last1:03:13.436 --> 1:03:14.235chance for a mic drop1:03:14.255 --> 1:03:14.876moment it's brought to you1:03:14.896 --> 1:03:15.597by the academy of1:03:15.717 --> 1:03:16.956orthopedic physical therapy1:03:17.036 --> 1:03:17.657find them online at1:03:17.697 --> 1:03:19.777orthopt.org their1:03:19.818 --> 1:03:20.998profession leading current1:03:21.059 --> 1:03:23.500concepts of orthopedic pts1:03:23.539 --> 1:03:24.320in their fifth edition1:03:24.699 --> 1:03:25.659wherever you are in your1:03:25.719 --> 1:03:27.081orthopedic career if you uh1:03:27.101 --> 1:03:27.621if you're thinking about1:03:27.641 --> 1:03:29.021maybe that ocs exam this is1:03:29.041 --> 1:03:30.302that road map to get you1:03:30.362 --> 1:03:32.023from there to the starting1:03:32.063 --> 1:03:33.342line right you're it's your1:03:33.382 --> 1:03:34.342job to take the test they1:03:34.362 --> 1:03:35.204can get you prepared1:03:36.244 --> 1:03:37.829right the luck that uh that1:03:37.869 --> 1:03:38.911hard work affords you they1:03:38.931 --> 1:03:39.773can do that so find them1:03:39.793 --> 1:03:42.099online at ortho pt.org mike1:03:42.119 --> 1:03:42.902what's your parting shot1:03:44.134 --> 1:03:45.454My parting shot is I want1:03:45.514 --> 1:03:46.856therapists to think about1:03:46.996 --> 1:03:48.817dual tasking in that1:03:48.896 --> 1:03:50.157context that I framed it1:03:50.197 --> 1:03:51.378about 40 minutes ago as a1:03:51.438 --> 1:03:53.480constraint so that we can1:03:53.619 --> 1:03:56.081tie up your attention and1:03:56.121 --> 1:03:57.603that we allow people to be1:03:57.663 --> 1:04:01.204able to learn things formidably, fully,1:04:01.326 --> 1:04:02.585and in a procedural manner1:04:03.126 --> 1:04:04.527because we haven't caused1:04:04.568 --> 1:04:06.068them to constantly think about it.1:04:06.108 --> 1:04:07.208So I think if you think1:04:07.228 --> 1:04:08.309about it in that analogy,1:04:08.389 --> 1:04:09.291that can be helpful.1:04:09.630 --> 1:04:11.871yeah uh links to uh to find1:04:11.911 --> 1:04:13.032out more about mike I'll be1:04:13.052 --> 1:04:14.233looking for that uh that1:04:14.293 --> 1:04:15.532soft skills course because1:04:15.572 --> 1:04:16.414why are these soft skills1:04:16.474 --> 1:04:17.614so damn hard on medbridge1:04:18.094 --> 1:04:18.954and I want to see that1:04:19.034 --> 1:04:20.054youtube video pop off so1:04:20.074 --> 1:04:20.956I'm gonna put the link in1:04:20.996 --> 1:04:22.755the uh the the bio okay1:04:22.795 --> 1:04:23.697let's see what happens all1:04:23.717 --> 1:04:24.976right thank you for finally1:04:24.996 --> 1:04:26.038connecting with me after we1:04:26.137 --> 1:04:27.117uh we hit and missed we1:04:27.137 --> 1:04:27.898glanced at each other but1:04:28.097 --> 1:04:29.059we finally did it it was it1:04:29.099 --> 1:04:30.219was uh even better than I1:04:30.259 --> 1:04:31.659imagined and I learned so1:04:31.719 --> 1:04:32.619much thank you so much1:04:32.679 --> 1:04:33.701jimmy I appreciate it all1:04:33.721 --> 1:04:34.280right they say the best1:04:34.340 --> 1:04:35.360conversations happen at1:04:35.420 --> 1:04:36.802happy hour thanks for coming ours