Return on Impact: Why PTs Need to Think Bigger

WEBVTT

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All right,

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This episode is powered by Brooks

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Rehabilitation Institute of Higher

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Learning,

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the place physical therapists go when they

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want to get really good

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Whether you're thinking orthopedics,

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become the clinician people rely on.

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Check out what your next level looks like

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at brooksihl.org.

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All right, what do Dr. Pepper, knee pain,

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biomechanics, wizardry,

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and a survivor application all have in

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common?

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It's this episode.

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It was rhetorical.

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We're diving into today why runners aren't

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broken by running,

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why PTs need to stop acting like the

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person you end up with,

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and how a small clinic in Arkansas is

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making a big move to blend performance,

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prevention,

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and rehab into one seamless system.

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He's part coach, part clinician,

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and part community builder.

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From treating injuries to directing races,

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please welcome to the show, Logan Dockery.

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How was that intro?

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It's pretty smooth, right?

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I saw the Dr. Pepper reference in there.

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I like it.

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Yeah.

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So you and I have a love for

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Dr. Pepper.

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I don't drink.

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Admittedly, I don't drink a lot of soda.

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But when I allow myself some, if Dr.

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Pepper is close, that is my go to.

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So what's what's your what's where's your

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thread there?

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What's your love of the Dr. Pepper?

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Too much is the thread.

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Yeah, too much.

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I drink too much Dr.

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Pepper and Mellow Yellow.

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That is a classic as well.

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Wow, a throwback to Mellow Yellow.

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Now, is that a Southern thing?

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I'm from New York,

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but I remember drinking Mellow Yellows at

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my grandmother's condo in Florida.

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That's the only place I think I've ever

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had it.

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i have no idea i have no idea

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i i am one of the few that

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still drink it though yeah you are keeping

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it that and i remember it was one

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of the sponsor cars in the tom cruise

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movie days of thunder but we're not here

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to talk about dr pepper or mellow yellow

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but i'm sure we could we're here to

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talk about you so logan welcome to the

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show you are in the great state of

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arkansas and you are a physical therapist

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for how long give us like the sort

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of the context when did you graduate how

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long you been practicing

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Yeah,

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I graduated in two thousand fourteen from

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the University of Central Arkansas with my

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clinical doctorate and then my Ph.D.

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years later while working in a hospital

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system, I attained that as well.

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But I've been practicing for about ten

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years now, a little over ten years.

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Love it.

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And you believe this physical therapists

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should be the leaders in musculoskeletal

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care.

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Logan, why do you think that?

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I think physical therapists need to step

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to the plate and be able to do

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that and have our position in there.

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Not as a competitor,

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but definitely as a collaborator, right?

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We need to go in,

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healthcare as a whole needs collaboration.

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For a patient to have true healthcare,

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to have like true path into improving

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their life,

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improving their functional mobility,

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we need to have a collaborative approach

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in that sense.

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But the way our traditional model is set

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up, it makes it pretty difficult.

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But I do think PTs need to be

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the leader in neuromusculoskeletal care.

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We graduated around the same time.

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I was twenty sixteen.

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We've been hearing this a lot.

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What are we doing wrong that this isn't

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the case?

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Because I feel like even when we were

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students back in the day,

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we were saying this.

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Are we getting better?

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And if so,

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what do we need to do more of

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to speed that up or to sort of

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cement that idea?

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I think it's very layered, right?

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Just with everything.

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Everything is very layered into how we

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approach it, the problems that are there,

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the speed bumps that might be that are

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there now and that are definitely coming

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later.

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All those things kind of apply and kind

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of slow the progressions.

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Plus healthcare in general just takes

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time.

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right consistency and messaging

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consistency in the education and even

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building leaders to be able to take the

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path forward so i think one of the

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biggest things we need are leaders to step

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up to the plate for um people like

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me and and other leaders in the field

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to to try to push and advocate for

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our path in a neuromusculoskeletal

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approach and be the primary path not an

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ancillary service

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You need noise makers, man.

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You need people who know how to say

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something in fifty five seconds,

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ten seconds, five seconds or two seconds.

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You need people who can do that and

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that their job is to do that on

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a regular basis.

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And I think, too,

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that people are inside the clinic and that

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see this on a day to day basis.

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We hear our patients.

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I spend hours with patients weekly that

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come in that tell me what their

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limitations are,

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what they're struggling with,

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the past in life that have become

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difficult for them.

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And we're in a unique position,

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both in our skill sets, our education,

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and how our practices are set up,

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that we can impact people's lives in a

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great way.

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We are in a unique position to then

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be a primary source for them in

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musculoskeletal care,

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and that's in movement disorders,

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that's in day-to-day,

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whether it's someone trying to train for a

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race or someone that is trying to lift

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heavier weight because they enjoy doing it

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inside the gym,

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or is it Miss Betty that's seventy-three

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that just wants time with their grandkids

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and not feel limited in that aspect?

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We are skilled in a way and trained

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in a way that allows us to be

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a good impact in their lives.

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But again,

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this is more in a collaborative approach.

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We are definitely not trying to step into

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a realm that we're not supposed to

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necessarily be in.

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Based on our practice stack,

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our rules and regs,

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we are positioned to be able to do

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that,

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but we need to go at it as

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a collaborative approach so we can solve

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the issues in healthcare and not create

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new ones.

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All right.

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Well, you mentioned runners.

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You are a runner.

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And you've said that most runners aren't

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actually injured from running,

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but from everything else.

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Help me understand that.

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And what are some of the everything

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else's?

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Yeah, it's so many things.

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Like I said, everything's layered in life.

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Everything is layered.

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And so with running, in a sense,

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people always talk and I hear it all

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the time that running is bad for your

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knees.

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It's bad for your joints,

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the compression that's there.

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But I don't necessarily I don't subscribe

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to that.

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I don't think that's necessarily the case.

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I think what gets people in trouble the

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most that

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that might tend to make someone maybe more

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injury prone, if we can use that term,

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is lack of strength, lack of biomechanics,

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functional and correct biomechanics.

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I would say poor sleep, poor diet,

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not having the right resources to then be

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able to create a great environment to then

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succeed into running.

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And whenever I talk about succeed into

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running, I mean,

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be able to accomplish what you want

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running to do for you whether it's to

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win races to run faster to challenge

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yourself to lose weight to be more healthy

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to make your body move to learn discipline

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whatever it is it needs to serve that

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purpose but be able to do that you

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have to have everything else work together

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and so running's not the not the enemy

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it's everything about life that interrupts

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that path or does it support that path

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in your goals

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Yeah, causation correlation.

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We see someone run and get injured,

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but there's other things,

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and you've mentioned before, terrain,

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sleep, stress, load, shoes.

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Yep.

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Lots of other things in that everything

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else that sometimes we don't see or a

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clinician might not be thinking of or a

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runner might not be thinking of,

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but all those things play a part.

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A hundred percent.

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Yep.

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A hundred percent.

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It's a taboo subject if you're wearing the

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wrong shoes.

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that that can lead to injuries that is

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true in a sense of let's say someone

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gets in a shoe that drives them into

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more pronation that drives this medial

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calcaneal to to midfoot collapse that then

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works its way up the chain that causes

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a problem right and if you do that

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over stress and then you add terrain to

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it whether it's the the the natural slant

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that happens to pull off rain from the

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road or you're running on trails that you

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never ran on trails before you're you've

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got to balance

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all those factors and low preparation,

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right?

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And even low tolerance to as you increase

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the load.

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So having the resources to be able to

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do that is huge,

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both in a performance aspect,

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as well as just,

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I just want to get out and be

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healthier and happier.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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besides your clinical background and your

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education, you are a runner.

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How has your experience lacing them up as

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a runner shaped how you treat runners?

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Yeah,

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I think the biggest thing is I can

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speak the language.

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I know the terminology.

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And I was injured quite a bit whenever

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I ran collegiately.

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Maybe don't leave with that, though.

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I just didn't know the knowledge.

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Back then, I just didn't.

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I wasn't trained to know what's good,

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what's bad.

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And through experience,

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and this happens with all of us, right?

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Through experience,

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I was able to find what works,

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what doesn't.

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And then even retrospectively, like,

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now that I have the knowledge that I

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have,

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I can now look back and say it's

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because of A, B and C, right?

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And this happened because I think this

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happened, whatever the case is.

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But now whenever someone comes and

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approaches me at the clinic or my team,

00:09:28.979 --> 00:09:29.458
They'll say,

00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.100
I feel this and they'll use some obscure

00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:32.522
term.

00:09:32.581 --> 00:09:34.982
It's rarely like I hurt here very much

00:09:35.003 --> 00:09:36.443
like this with burning pain.

00:09:36.485 --> 00:09:37.125
And like,

00:09:37.164 --> 00:09:38.725
it's not this traditional what we learn in

00:09:38.765 --> 00:09:39.066
school.

00:09:39.647 --> 00:09:42.229
It's I have this obscure pain and I

00:09:42.269 --> 00:09:43.809
describe it this way based on my

00:09:43.850 --> 00:09:44.429
experiences.

00:09:44.549 --> 00:09:46.692
But because I ran and I felt that

00:09:46.751 --> 00:09:47.111
pain,

00:09:47.572 --> 00:09:49.094
I usually can navigate where they are.

00:09:49.634 --> 00:09:50.654
And then first visit,

00:09:50.875 --> 00:09:52.535
I can have them to buy in what

00:09:52.576 --> 00:09:54.616
I'm talking about and they trust what I'm

00:09:54.657 --> 00:09:55.317
saying and doing.

00:09:55.697 --> 00:09:57.178
That's bigger than almost anything.

00:09:57.599 --> 00:09:59.480
Having buy-in and trust from a person that

00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:00.581
comes in to help,

00:10:00.921 --> 00:10:02.182
they're seeking your help.

00:10:02.582 --> 00:10:04.004
If they trust me from visit one,

00:10:04.244 --> 00:10:05.825
our outcomes are going to be drastically

00:10:05.865 --> 00:10:06.164
better,

00:10:06.644 --> 00:10:08.525
especially if I have the right path early

00:10:08.626 --> 00:10:10.187
and not five visits down the road.

00:10:10.988 --> 00:10:13.389
I think the biggest thing is terminology.

00:10:15.030 --> 00:10:15.431
Plus,

00:10:16.071 --> 00:10:18.913
I go out and I run with them.

00:10:20.333 --> 00:10:21.835
We heavily support the clubs around the

00:10:21.914 --> 00:10:22.196
area.

00:10:22.615 --> 00:10:23.576
I go and I run with them.

00:10:23.657 --> 00:10:24.456
I spend time with them.

00:10:24.496 --> 00:10:26.418
They see me outside of a clinical setting.

00:10:26.859 --> 00:10:28.799
We have conversations that are not always

00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:29.240
clinical.

00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:30.900
We're talking about life and everything.

00:10:31.782 --> 00:10:32.802
I think that, again,

00:10:32.822 --> 00:10:35.403
just feeds the narrative of I'm here for

00:10:35.443 --> 00:10:35.684
them.

00:10:35.845 --> 00:10:36.784
I'm here to care for them.

00:10:37.044 --> 00:10:38.265
My team is there to care for them.

00:10:38.647 --> 00:10:40.227
I think that's a big thing that misses

00:10:40.268 --> 00:10:40.707
in healthcare.

00:10:41.725 --> 00:10:43.046
I wasn't planning on going this direction,

00:10:43.066 --> 00:10:45.047
but you said we support the local running

00:10:45.086 --> 00:10:46.187
clubs or running community.

00:10:46.206 --> 00:10:47.107
Yeah.

00:10:47.168 --> 00:10:47.868
How do you do that?

00:10:47.947 --> 00:10:49.408
Because I know a lot of people who

00:10:49.469 --> 00:10:51.169
either open clinics or saying we want to

00:10:51.289 --> 00:10:51.889
we want to do this.

00:10:52.230 --> 00:10:53.990
But how do you tactically do that?

00:10:54.312 --> 00:10:56.893
My guess is it's something terribly simple

00:10:56.952 --> 00:10:59.214
and basic that has a really great like

00:10:59.234 --> 00:11:00.754
you don't need to drop fifty grand.

00:11:00.875 --> 00:11:03.176
You don't need to put on your own

00:11:03.235 --> 00:11:03.475
race.

00:11:03.495 --> 00:11:04.736
You might, but you don't need to.

00:11:05.177 --> 00:11:06.717
So what does it actually look like to

00:11:06.778 --> 00:11:09.318
support a local running community so other

00:11:09.339 --> 00:11:10.759
clinicians around the country can learn?

00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:12.279
I think you just get involved.

00:11:12.500 --> 00:11:13.520
You reach out to the club.

00:11:13.721 --> 00:11:15.461
We have multiple running clubs around the

00:11:15.481 --> 00:11:15.701
area.

00:11:16.841 --> 00:11:18.842
We do a lot of things, but specifically,

00:11:19.482 --> 00:11:21.364
I talk to every single club here,

00:11:22.125 --> 00:11:23.365
me personally and my team.

00:11:24.586 --> 00:11:25.745
We make it known that we just want

00:11:25.765 --> 00:11:26.005
to help.

00:11:26.025 --> 00:11:26.787
We're not replacing.

00:11:27.006 --> 00:11:27.427
We're not

00:11:27.927 --> 00:11:29.808
trying to get in it's not a turf

00:11:29.828 --> 00:11:31.889
war it is literally we have the same

00:11:32.331 --> 00:11:34.111
path that we want to do for our

00:11:34.152 --> 00:11:35.673
runners and for our community and that's

00:11:35.714 --> 00:11:38.716
to get people to love running walk around

00:11:38.735 --> 00:11:40.697
whatever their case is and to be healthier

00:11:41.018 --> 00:11:42.940
right and so if we can join as

00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.160
that team and i just reach out to

00:11:44.201 --> 00:11:46.442
them i go to running events i do

00:11:46.482 --> 00:11:48.183
sponsor multiple races that are around

00:11:48.224 --> 00:11:50.086
through here we put our own race on

00:11:50.105 --> 00:11:51.267
the soma main street mile

00:11:51.807 --> 00:11:54.107
Like we're deep entrenched in that

00:11:54.128 --> 00:11:54.648
community.

00:11:55.028 --> 00:11:58.349
And then we hold our club run.

00:11:58.389 --> 00:11:59.769
So every Sunday we have a club run.

00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:01.330
We go to Track Tuesdays,

00:12:01.669 --> 00:12:03.650
which is a club run that's put on

00:12:03.691 --> 00:12:05.211
by the local clubs.

00:12:05.412 --> 00:12:07.392
Same thing for like Thursday runs.

00:12:07.732 --> 00:12:09.173
We hold Wednesday in Conway.

00:12:09.212 --> 00:12:10.754
Like we're just entrenched,

00:12:10.833 --> 00:12:12.014
but it's because we care.

00:12:12.293 --> 00:12:13.774
And I think if you truly care for

00:12:13.794 --> 00:12:14.514
the community,

00:12:14.774 --> 00:12:16.475
you'll find the paths that go on and

00:12:16.495 --> 00:12:17.515
you just have to convey that.

00:12:19.038 --> 00:12:19.860
You paid attention.

00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.201
You paid attention enough to what they

00:12:22.241 --> 00:12:24.364
were doing and where a gap might be.

00:12:24.803 --> 00:12:28.506
And it sounds like you approached them not

00:12:28.527 --> 00:12:30.008
from a place of how do I sell

00:12:30.028 --> 00:12:30.889
them on something?

00:12:30.928 --> 00:12:32.450
How do I insert myself here?

00:12:32.811 --> 00:12:37.534
It sounds like you spoke to learn.

00:12:37.815 --> 00:12:38.615
You led to listen.

00:12:39.774 --> 00:12:41.815
And we lead to serve, right?

00:12:42.294 --> 00:12:44.274
I think that's the biggest path.

00:12:44.315 --> 00:12:45.596
We lead to serve.

00:12:45.635 --> 00:12:46.655
We're not selling stuff.

00:12:46.775 --> 00:12:49.235
I mean, I can make an argument,

00:12:49.296 --> 00:12:50.076
we're always selling.

00:12:50.136 --> 00:12:51.836
Whether I'm speaking to somebody or

00:12:51.876 --> 00:12:52.557
whatever the case is,

00:12:52.596 --> 00:12:53.437
we're selling ourself,

00:12:53.457 --> 00:12:54.857
we're selling our path, our vision,

00:12:55.238 --> 00:12:56.597
our service, whatever the case is.

00:12:56.957 --> 00:12:59.038
But it needs to be led through true

00:12:59.119 --> 00:12:59.719
servitude.

00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:00.278
True,

00:13:00.619 --> 00:13:02.500
like I want to improve somebody's life

00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:04.059
because I want their life to be better.

00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:05.841
And if you hear that from me and

00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:06.980
you see my authenticity,

00:13:08.299 --> 00:13:10.280
Then that's that's way better than me

00:13:10.301 --> 00:13:12.860
saying this is for low back pain.

00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:14.022
I can help your knee pain.

00:13:14.662 --> 00:13:15.642
There's no buy into that.

00:13:15.662 --> 00:13:17.163
There's no trust built into that.

00:13:17.543 --> 00:13:19.082
And so lead with servitude,

00:13:19.442 --> 00:13:22.083
show authenticity and be part of the

00:13:22.124 --> 00:13:25.304
community, not as a secondary benefit,

00:13:25.865 --> 00:13:26.966
but as a primary driver.

00:13:27.285 --> 00:13:28.385
Let me ask you this, though.

00:13:29.774 --> 00:13:31.317
And then we have to get businessy for

00:13:31.336 --> 00:13:31.797
a second.

00:13:32.357 --> 00:13:34.840
And that feels icky for some clinicians

00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:37.543
because we're blue.

00:13:38.203 --> 00:13:39.065
All we do is want love,

00:13:39.085 --> 00:13:39.785
want to give it away.

00:13:40.586 --> 00:13:42.467
How long did it take for you to

00:13:42.508 --> 00:13:43.730
see a return on investment?

00:13:43.889 --> 00:13:46.192
As in, now we can do money,

00:13:46.613 --> 00:13:47.394
we can measure, right?

00:13:47.413 --> 00:13:49.054
Because business goals are goals too.

00:13:49.235 --> 00:13:51.197
And if you don't measure, you don't grow.

00:13:51.258 --> 00:13:51.477
Yeah.

00:13:52.557 --> 00:13:54.620
Let's do a business KPI like, hey,

00:13:54.681 --> 00:13:55.481
we broke even.

00:13:55.662 --> 00:13:57.304
We made money on this and now we're

00:13:57.345 --> 00:13:58.145
able to reinvest.

00:13:58.625 --> 00:14:01.330
Or let's do the warm and fuzzy.

00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:03.312
When did you start to feel like this

00:14:03.332 --> 00:14:03.753
is a thing?

00:14:04.193 --> 00:14:04.975
Let's do both of those.

00:14:05.095 --> 00:14:06.697
When did it start to break even or

00:14:07.138 --> 00:14:09.320
make ROI positive?

00:14:10.530 --> 00:14:12.092
I think that is a variable thing.

00:14:12.712 --> 00:14:16.576
There's some months and even quarters that

00:14:16.615 --> 00:14:17.697
we make more than others.

00:14:17.998 --> 00:14:19.118
There's times that we lose.

00:14:19.499 --> 00:14:20.298
Welcome to life, baby.

00:14:20.318 --> 00:14:22.620
Yeah.

00:14:22.721 --> 00:14:23.422
It's a give and take.

00:14:24.022 --> 00:14:25.724
I think if you look solely,

00:14:25.744 --> 00:14:28.426
and I've only owned Blue Rose and Blue

00:14:28.446 --> 00:14:29.246
Rose Running for...

00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:31.835
Four years, a little over four years.

00:14:32.235 --> 00:14:33.995
So I'm I'm a novice in all sense

00:14:34.056 --> 00:14:35.475
of the form of running a business.

00:14:35.535 --> 00:14:35.755
Right.

00:14:36.456 --> 00:14:37.657
What I do well,

00:14:37.856 --> 00:14:39.357
I think I do well is communicate well

00:14:39.577 --> 00:14:43.719
and I show authenticity and I'm OK going

00:14:43.739 --> 00:14:45.480
through the ebbs and flows of what's going

00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:45.860
to happen.

00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:46.320
Right.

00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:48.581
And so everything's not a return on

00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:49.341
investment for me.

00:14:49.662 --> 00:14:50.802
It's a return on impact.

00:14:51.182 --> 00:14:51.381
Right.

00:14:51.601 --> 00:14:52.523
We make the money like that.

00:14:53.283 --> 00:14:54.563
Yep, we make the money work.

00:14:55.144 --> 00:14:56.205
You still have to look at the bottom

00:14:56.245 --> 00:14:56.445
line.

00:14:56.784 --> 00:15:00.346
I am still responsible to pay for my

00:15:00.386 --> 00:15:01.187
employees lives.

00:15:01.206 --> 00:15:02.727
They still have to raise their kids.

00:15:02.768 --> 00:15:04.269
They still have to go and live their

00:15:04.308 --> 00:15:04.589
life.

00:15:04.948 --> 00:15:06.269
I still have to support that path.

00:15:07.062 --> 00:15:08.962
But in the same notion,

00:15:09.003 --> 00:15:10.884
if everything is a transaction,

00:15:11.144 --> 00:15:12.524
that's how healthcare is built right now.

00:15:12.544 --> 00:15:13.566
And I do not agree with it.

00:15:13.666 --> 00:15:15.246
If everything is a transaction,

00:15:15.626 --> 00:15:16.886
like I do this, you do this.

00:15:17.347 --> 00:15:19.168
That is not how life is in any

00:15:19.229 --> 00:15:20.149
form of aspect.

00:15:20.328 --> 00:15:21.769
That's not how life needs to be.

00:15:22.289 --> 00:15:24.432
And so I go look on a return

00:15:24.471 --> 00:15:25.091
on impact.

00:15:25.351 --> 00:15:26.133
What's our impact?

00:15:26.812 --> 00:15:29.134
What's happening on the basis of what

00:15:29.153 --> 00:15:29.735
we're trying to do?

00:15:30.554 --> 00:15:32.216
And then is the money supporting that?

00:15:32.235 --> 00:15:33.777
And then how can we create a system

00:15:34.076 --> 00:15:36.099
that both is we have to make money

00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:37.479
in a sense to have an impact?

00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.461
That's that's the fuel of what we need

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:39.821
to do.

00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:41.422
If we don't take into that,

00:15:41.481 --> 00:15:42.682
I'll be out of business and then I

00:15:42.702 --> 00:15:43.562
can't make any impact.

00:15:43.623 --> 00:15:43.844
Right.

00:15:44.884 --> 00:15:46.565
But if we can focus on the impact,

00:15:46.625 --> 00:15:48.245
make the money work and then create the

00:15:48.306 --> 00:15:49.407
system to cultivate,

00:15:49.706 --> 00:15:51.928
I think in years we win both on

00:15:51.989 --> 00:15:53.470
a business standpoint and an impact

00:15:53.490 --> 00:15:53.850
standpoint.

00:15:54.258 --> 00:15:55.278
I didn't think we were going to get

00:15:55.318 --> 00:15:56.120
that deep at that.

00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.400
I thought the question was all right,

00:15:57.441 --> 00:15:58.981
but you made it great.

00:15:59.402 --> 00:16:00.082
That's a new KPI.

00:16:00.123 --> 00:16:01.364
People are going to be writing.

00:16:01.984 --> 00:16:03.645
I can hear the audience scribbling out

00:16:03.686 --> 00:16:03.865
there.

00:16:04.066 --> 00:16:05.866
ROI, return on impact.

00:16:05.907 --> 00:16:06.447
That's great.

00:16:06.467 --> 00:16:09.870
Yeah, that's just something that feeds me,

00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:10.650
so I'm excited about it.

00:16:10.831 --> 00:16:11.991
That's great.

00:16:12.011 --> 00:16:15.835
That's awesome.

00:16:15.955 --> 00:16:16.054
Yeah.

00:16:16.095 --> 00:16:16.596
Quick break.

00:16:16.635 --> 00:16:18.657
Looking for an EMR that won't make you

00:16:18.677 --> 00:16:20.438
want to throw your laptop across the room?

00:16:21.095 --> 00:16:22.898
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00:16:23.178 --> 00:16:26.325
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00:16:26.384 --> 00:16:29.529
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00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:30.711
I can already hear the title of the

00:16:30.753 --> 00:16:31.553
episode, Logan.

00:16:32.075 --> 00:16:33.197
ROI, return on impact.

00:16:33.681 --> 00:16:34.541
I don't know.

00:16:34.801 --> 00:16:36.121
It's a leader in the clubhouse right now

00:16:36.182 --> 00:16:37.201
for the name of the episode.

00:16:38.202 --> 00:16:40.082
Let's take a little bit of a detour.

00:16:40.102 --> 00:16:41.864
You talk a lot about high value,

00:16:42.443 --> 00:16:43.684
low cost care.

00:16:44.445 --> 00:16:45.644
But what does that look like?

00:16:45.684 --> 00:16:47.566
I feel like that's a term we've talked

00:16:47.586 --> 00:16:49.047
about since it's been on Twitter or

00:16:49.106 --> 00:16:50.346
LinkedIn, wherever you're on there,

00:16:50.647 --> 00:16:52.028
thrown around our profession a lot.

00:16:52.347 --> 00:16:54.187
But what does that look like at Blue

00:16:54.249 --> 00:16:54.729
Rose?

00:16:54.928 --> 00:16:56.288
What does that look like in your clinic

00:16:56.349 --> 00:16:56.629
model?

00:16:56.749 --> 00:16:58.190
High value, low cost.

00:16:59.203 --> 00:17:02.304
So I think at a micro level,

00:17:02.504 --> 00:17:03.644
like our clinic,

00:17:04.265 --> 00:17:07.226
it's difficult to have a low cost with

00:17:07.246 --> 00:17:10.547
high value with how our current model is

00:17:10.567 --> 00:17:11.366
set up, right?

00:17:11.406 --> 00:17:13.968
We're trying things that are unique to the

00:17:14.008 --> 00:17:16.689
space that are against traditional

00:17:16.749 --> 00:17:17.828
modeling of insurance,

00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:19.690
but that does become difficult.

00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:21.309
I think that's a macro problem.

00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:23.871
I think that's a macro path that needs

00:17:23.891 --> 00:17:24.391
to happen.

00:17:24.931 --> 00:17:28.071
And so in that sense,

00:17:28.852 --> 00:17:31.432
i think pts are in a unique position

00:17:31.472 --> 00:17:35.094
both in our skill set and in um

00:17:35.153 --> 00:17:37.615
how we are set up inside of healthcare

00:17:37.994 --> 00:17:40.615
we're in a unique position to help that

00:17:40.715 --> 00:17:44.056
high value at low cost right we can

00:17:44.116 --> 00:17:47.257
help save money throughout the system we

00:17:47.297 --> 00:17:50.077
can provide excellent care because that's

00:17:50.097 --> 00:17:51.558
how we're trained to do in neuromuscular

00:17:51.578 --> 00:17:52.259
skeletal care

00:17:52.778 --> 00:17:54.500
We are trained specifically into that,

00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.741
both on special tests, both on treatment,

00:17:57.102 --> 00:18:00.463
diagnosis and pushing red flags out and

00:18:00.505 --> 00:18:02.465
any concerns that we need to refer out.

00:18:03.105 --> 00:18:04.186
We are able to do that.

00:18:04.747 --> 00:18:07.288
And so we can do that and save

00:18:07.308 --> 00:18:08.349
the health care community.

00:18:09.008 --> 00:18:10.749
costs of everything going on.

00:18:10.808 --> 00:18:12.830
And they've shown in the military aspect.

00:18:13.131 --> 00:18:15.673
PTs are lead providers for musculoskeletal

00:18:15.712 --> 00:18:18.275
care in the military, right?

00:18:18.555 --> 00:18:20.796
And there's studies and models that show

00:18:21.237 --> 00:18:23.597
we save the system money, which is great.

00:18:24.419 --> 00:18:25.720
If we can provide great care,

00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.122
great outcomes, get people back faster,

00:18:28.561 --> 00:18:29.782
and we can help them through their

00:18:29.823 --> 00:18:31.064
continuum of life,

00:18:31.624 --> 00:18:34.284
while saving the system money i think that

00:18:34.324 --> 00:18:35.984
is at least part of a solution that

00:18:36.005 --> 00:18:38.085
is there um and we just got to

00:18:38.105 --> 00:18:39.545
keep voicing that and again this is

00:18:39.565 --> 00:18:41.605
through collaboration uh not through

00:18:41.625 --> 00:18:44.746
replacement i think that if we can find

00:18:44.885 --> 00:18:46.946
our path in the system we can help

00:18:46.967 --> 00:18:48.586
the system and the people that are in

00:18:48.626 --> 00:18:51.827
it love that uh talking right to the

00:18:51.867 --> 00:18:54.708
new pt think back to uh twenty fourteen

00:18:55.367 --> 00:18:58.048
logan pts who aren't sure what kind of

00:18:58.088 --> 00:18:59.368
clinician they want to be yet

00:19:00.439 --> 00:19:01.799
I asked this question just a couple days

00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:04.622
ago on LinkedIn and got some great

00:19:04.662 --> 00:19:07.384
responses, also some trash responses like,

00:19:07.463 --> 00:19:08.404
don't join the profession.

00:19:08.505 --> 00:19:11.366
I'm like, all right, that's valid.

00:19:11.386 --> 00:19:12.508
But what advice would you give to a

00:19:12.548 --> 00:19:14.189
new PT who isn't sure yet what kind

00:19:14.209 --> 00:19:15.650
of clinician they want to be?

00:19:16.604 --> 00:19:19.546
Yeah, I think get as involved as possible,

00:19:19.786 --> 00:19:20.047
right?

00:19:20.126 --> 00:19:21.988
Have as many experiences within the

00:19:22.048 --> 00:19:22.969
profession as possible.

00:19:23.709 --> 00:19:25.191
You don't know what you love until you

00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:25.851
experience it.

00:19:26.652 --> 00:19:28.333
And what gives you the warm and fuzzies?

00:19:28.813 --> 00:19:31.714
What's gonna lead you into having passion

00:19:31.736 --> 00:19:32.596
towards that subject?

00:19:32.915 --> 00:19:34.897
Not a paycheck, we have to make money,

00:19:35.178 --> 00:19:36.858
but what leads you to a passion?

00:19:36.898 --> 00:19:38.381
What leads you to something that gets you

00:19:38.421 --> 00:19:38.941
fired up,

00:19:39.020 --> 00:19:41.502
that fills you up and that you wanna

00:19:41.542 --> 00:19:42.262
give to others?

00:19:42.703 --> 00:19:44.144
Once you find that and then you can

00:19:44.164 --> 00:19:45.026
make money in that,

00:19:45.685 --> 00:19:47.027
You're living the dream, right?

00:19:47.426 --> 00:19:49.509
And then whether you're a key player in

00:19:49.548 --> 00:19:51.230
the clinic or you're a leader in the

00:19:51.270 --> 00:19:53.112
field, it doesn't necessarily matter.

00:19:53.231 --> 00:19:54.153
All of it needs it.

00:19:54.432 --> 00:19:55.814
You just got to find what works best

00:19:55.834 --> 00:19:57.576
for your life, your path,

00:19:58.056 --> 00:19:59.436
and then what fuels you.

00:19:59.958 --> 00:20:01.439
And now that has to still balance with

00:20:01.459 --> 00:20:02.199
the rest of your life.

00:20:02.239 --> 00:20:04.181
So it's all very individualistic.

00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:05.961
But my main goal would be find your

00:20:05.982 --> 00:20:06.482
passions,

00:20:06.702 --> 00:20:08.865
create something around that in the PT

00:20:08.884 --> 00:20:09.224
field,

00:20:10.246 --> 00:20:11.767
and then experience as much as you can

00:20:11.787 --> 00:20:13.608
because you might be surprised with what

00:20:13.648 --> 00:20:14.970
you actually really love and enjoy.

00:20:15.478 --> 00:20:16.219
Yeah, this is the,

00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:17.179
have you heard of the,

00:20:17.239 --> 00:20:18.640
you're sort of reiterating this thing,

00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:19.601
maybe you've never heard of it,

00:20:19.621 --> 00:20:20.942
but have you ever heard of the Japanese

00:20:21.942 --> 00:20:22.643
Aiki guy?

00:20:22.782 --> 00:20:24.964
I'm probably saying it wrong one way,

00:20:24.984 --> 00:20:25.325
not the other.

00:20:25.665 --> 00:20:26.385
So essentially,

00:20:26.806 --> 00:20:27.967
and I bring this graphic up,

00:20:28.007 --> 00:20:29.048
not because I was ready,

00:20:29.367 --> 00:20:30.788
but because I have the graphic so ready

00:20:30.808 --> 00:20:32.210
because I talk about it with people that

00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:33.651
I help communicate,

00:20:34.211 --> 00:20:35.011
and it looks like this.

00:20:35.173 --> 00:20:36.894
So it's just four circles that connect for

00:20:36.913 --> 00:20:37.934
the podcast audience,

00:20:38.275 --> 00:20:40.517
and they really just are what you love,

00:20:41.156 --> 00:20:43.259
what the world needs, what you're good at,

00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:45.200
and what you can get paid for.

00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:46.839
And that last one, for some reason,

00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:48.941
bothers people in health care.

00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:51.261
Well, you know, we can't make sure.

00:20:51.721 --> 00:20:52.741
But at the same token,

00:20:53.962 --> 00:20:54.742
they'll say we're underpaid.

00:20:54.762 --> 00:20:56.923
And I'm saying then those things need to

00:20:56.943 --> 00:20:57.284
be met,

00:20:57.304 --> 00:20:58.605
because if you can't get paid for it,

00:20:58.625 --> 00:20:59.585
but the other three are hit,

00:20:59.845 --> 00:21:00.464
you have a really,

00:21:00.506 --> 00:21:01.385
really great hobby

00:21:02.037 --> 00:21:03.778
that you're investing in but if this is

00:21:03.798 --> 00:21:04.818
going to be something you can dedicate

00:21:04.838 --> 00:21:06.500
your life to it's got to bring some

00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:08.741
return on investment so you can support

00:21:08.761 --> 00:21:10.963
yourself for summary i'm trying really

00:21:10.983 --> 00:21:12.224
hard to beat that out of the profession

00:21:12.244 --> 00:21:14.826
which is you can do great stuff and

00:21:14.866 --> 00:21:17.308
make money and reinvest some of that money

00:21:17.328 --> 00:21:18.849
into doing more great stuff and support

00:21:18.869 --> 00:21:20.330
your family because that's what we're all

00:21:20.351 --> 00:21:20.672
here for

00:21:21.330 --> 00:21:21.530
Yep.

00:21:21.611 --> 00:21:23.050
I couldn't agree more.

00:21:23.070 --> 00:21:24.632
Sounds like you understand Ikigai without

00:21:24.672 --> 00:21:25.892
ever actually seeing it.

00:21:25.991 --> 00:21:27.531
I'm going to look it up.

00:21:27.551 --> 00:21:28.332
Those four things.

00:21:28.511 --> 00:21:30.112
And where they cross in the middle,

00:21:30.532 --> 00:21:32.633
that's what Ikigai is.

00:21:33.012 --> 00:21:34.093
It's reason for being.

00:21:34.133 --> 00:21:35.732
That's what the actual term means.

00:21:36.253 --> 00:21:37.453
When you've found that,

00:21:37.673 --> 00:21:39.374
you can sort of see it in a

00:21:39.433 --> 00:21:40.973
person's face, whether they're a plumber,

00:21:41.054 --> 00:21:43.494
an electrician, a physical therapist.

00:21:43.755 --> 00:21:44.454
It doesn't matter.

00:21:44.474 --> 00:21:45.355
When you can see it,

00:21:45.375 --> 00:21:47.494
they're totally at peace because they're

00:21:47.515 --> 00:21:49.056
in the middle of those four things.

00:21:49.355 --> 00:21:50.435
And it gets real unique there.

00:21:51.207 --> 00:21:52.086
Yeah, I love it.

00:21:52.106 --> 00:21:52.188
Yeah,

00:21:52.208 --> 00:21:53.288
I'm going to look it up after this,

00:21:53.307 --> 00:21:53.407
too.

00:21:53.428 --> 00:21:54.568
I haven't heard of that.

00:21:54.588 --> 00:21:55.489
I like the concept.

00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:58.009
All right.

00:21:58.069 --> 00:22:01.132
So let's do a hot take moment.

00:22:01.152 --> 00:22:02.692
All right.

00:22:02.751 --> 00:22:05.252
So I want you to break down how

00:22:05.272 --> 00:22:08.174
you talk to someone who sits in front

00:22:08.194 --> 00:22:11.215
of you and says, I'm hurt from running.

00:22:11.415 --> 00:22:12.696
We talked about before that...

00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:14.029
You know, running,

00:22:14.309 --> 00:22:15.750
you're actually injured from other things.

00:22:16.030 --> 00:22:17.510
But how do you actually tactically

00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:18.511
communicate that?

00:22:18.771 --> 00:22:20.511
Because it sounds like you might have to

00:22:20.551 --> 00:22:25.334
do some unlearning or guiding towards a

00:22:25.394 --> 00:22:26.854
different idea to get that person to at

00:22:26.894 --> 00:22:29.714
least be opening open to hear your

00:22:29.855 --> 00:22:30.954
different point of view.

00:22:31.355 --> 00:22:32.536
How do you do that with someone?

00:22:33.798 --> 00:22:34.339
It's tough.

00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:34.859
Yeah.

00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.221
But to me,

00:22:36.602 --> 00:22:38.202
it's on the basis of do they trust

00:22:38.222 --> 00:22:38.383
you?

00:22:39.002 --> 00:22:40.183
Everything is under the basis.

00:22:40.243 --> 00:22:41.204
I go back to it often.

00:22:41.244 --> 00:22:44.027
But if they trust you and they see

00:22:44.167 --> 00:22:45.429
and they feel what you're saying,

00:22:45.929 --> 00:22:48.211
I do believe they're more open and

00:22:48.270 --> 00:22:48.750
receptive.

00:22:49.251 --> 00:22:51.553
If I sound like every other person that

00:22:51.574 --> 00:22:52.794
they've come in contact with,

00:22:53.174 --> 00:22:54.336
they're not going to trust me.

00:22:54.816 --> 00:22:57.498
If I go through the same script of

00:22:57.557 --> 00:22:57.999
like, well,

00:22:59.115 --> 00:23:00.977
Tell me what's hurting you, okay?

00:23:01.196 --> 00:23:03.337
Can you move your knee like this, okay?

00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.339
Well, I think blah, blah, blah, right?

00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.780
I have to build a rapport.

00:23:07.141 --> 00:23:10.163
I have to understand what their driver is,

00:23:10.323 --> 00:23:12.704
both at a musculoskeletal level as well as

00:23:13.005 --> 00:23:14.205
their life, right?

00:23:14.926 --> 00:23:16.307
They're not this person with knee pain.

00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:19.010
They're this person that has their life,

00:23:19.070 --> 00:23:20.050
their reason for running,

00:23:20.191 --> 00:23:23.031
or let's say it's someone's back pain and

00:23:23.051 --> 00:23:25.051
they're not able to do things that make

00:23:25.071 --> 00:23:26.313
them feel valuable, right?

00:23:26.393 --> 00:23:27.792
And they're led through value and they

00:23:27.833 --> 00:23:29.614
want to be able to lift their kids

00:23:29.653 --> 00:23:30.433
up or they want to be able to

00:23:30.453 --> 00:23:31.294
do this job at work.

00:23:31.334 --> 00:23:32.194
Whatever the case is,

00:23:32.375 --> 00:23:34.095
I have to find out that first.

00:23:34.714 --> 00:23:35.816
Once I find that out,

00:23:35.955 --> 00:23:38.116
once I understand them as a whole,

00:23:38.477 --> 00:23:39.957
not as an injury, but as a whole,

00:23:40.576 --> 00:23:42.238
and then I start plucking away like, hey,

00:23:43.336 --> 00:23:43.656
Running,

00:23:44.518 --> 00:23:46.740
it actually increases the conjoined in

00:23:46.780 --> 00:23:49.462
your knee.

00:23:49.502 --> 00:23:51.105
That's not necessarily the detriments,

00:23:51.125 --> 00:23:52.326
the biomechanics around it.

00:23:52.405 --> 00:23:53.487
It's this collapse that could be

00:23:53.527 --> 00:23:53.788
happening.

00:23:53.827 --> 00:23:54.868
Whatever the case is,

00:23:54.969 --> 00:23:56.450
it's all very individualistic.

00:23:56.851 --> 00:23:57.230
But first,

00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:58.853
I have to dig into them first,

00:23:59.133 --> 00:24:01.414
find what their driver is at whatever

00:24:01.555 --> 00:24:02.876
aspect they're coming in for.

00:24:03.416 --> 00:24:04.838
Then the musculoskeletal driver,

00:24:04.878 --> 00:24:05.578
find the problem.

00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:07.881
and then marry those together and create

00:24:07.901 --> 00:24:08.501
this story.

00:24:08.521 --> 00:24:10.103
And then if you create the story,

00:24:10.943 --> 00:24:11.784
then you can,

00:24:12.163 --> 00:24:13.645
I think you can actually change their

00:24:13.685 --> 00:24:14.226
perception.

00:24:14.445 --> 00:24:15.787
It's almost as if the body and the

00:24:15.826 --> 00:24:16.968
mind are connected, Logan.

00:24:18.568 --> 00:24:19.150
It's crazy.

00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:20.510
It's a crazy concept.

00:24:21.246 --> 00:24:22.205
Which is amazing.

00:24:24.086 --> 00:24:25.948
People always advocate on LinkedIn or

00:24:25.988 --> 00:24:28.367
Twitter for changing the syllabus in PT

00:24:28.407 --> 00:24:28.628
school.

00:24:28.828 --> 00:24:30.989
It is amazing that we have essentially one

00:24:31.048 --> 00:24:32.509
prerequisite for psychology,

00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:36.211
except every single human we talk about.

00:24:36.711 --> 00:24:37.971
We're really in the behavior change

00:24:38.011 --> 00:24:38.471
business.

00:24:38.592 --> 00:24:39.751
I'm not saying throw out anatomy,

00:24:39.811 --> 00:24:41.053
physiology, ortho, neuro.

00:24:41.133 --> 00:24:41.932
Don't throw any of it out.

00:24:42.853 --> 00:24:44.013
But this whole brain thing,

00:24:44.114 --> 00:24:44.973
I think it's a thing, Logan.

00:24:44.993 --> 00:24:45.894
I think that's what you're saying.

00:24:45.934 --> 00:24:46.914
It sounds like it's a thing.

00:24:47.535 --> 00:24:48.336
At least part of it.

00:24:48.455 --> 00:24:49.497
Yeah, it's part of it.

00:24:49.517 --> 00:24:50.919
Yeah, it's a huge thing.

00:24:51.138 --> 00:24:53.260
It's a huge thing for someone that has

00:24:53.320 --> 00:24:56.124
maybe been conditioned to think a certain

00:24:56.164 --> 00:24:58.727
way, whether it's fear, fear avoidance,

00:24:58.747 --> 00:25:00.269
because someone said they had the worst

00:25:00.288 --> 00:25:01.230
back they've ever seen.

00:25:01.250 --> 00:25:01.851
Right.

00:25:02.030 --> 00:25:04.594
Or they have that that set up to

00:25:04.673 --> 00:25:07.717
just then destroy their confidence and

00:25:07.757 --> 00:25:08.096
movement.

00:25:08.678 --> 00:25:10.038
And then you have to unbury that.

00:25:10.058 --> 00:25:11.680
And it might be fifteen years before they

00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:12.361
see a PT.

00:25:12.961 --> 00:25:14.741
Instead of seeing a PT first and be

00:25:14.801 --> 00:25:16.624
able to go and create movement patterns,

00:25:16.884 --> 00:25:18.984
find the driver, move this way.

00:25:19.465 --> 00:25:20.645
It's fifteen years down the road.

00:25:20.665 --> 00:25:21.547
They've kind of dealt with it.

00:25:21.586 --> 00:25:21.707
Well,

00:25:21.767 --> 00:25:24.269
now they are conditioned to feel that pain

00:25:24.308 --> 00:25:25.128
in certain ways,

00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:26.871
whether it's increased intensity,

00:25:27.310 --> 00:25:29.352
the times that it comes on or the

00:25:29.392 --> 00:25:31.034
fear avoidance associated with it.

00:25:31.074 --> 00:25:33.174
Whatever the case is, they're conditioned.

00:25:33.194 --> 00:25:34.435
We're all conditioned certain ways.

00:25:34.675 --> 00:25:35.596
They're conditioned that way.

00:25:35.616 --> 00:25:37.077
And then we have to unravel that.

00:25:37.518 --> 00:25:39.739
That takes time, but most importantly,

00:25:39.778 --> 00:25:40.459
it takes trust.

00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:41.900
That's relationship build.

00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:43.780
All right, Logan, it's game time.

00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:44.221
Are you ready?

00:25:44.701 --> 00:25:45.102
I'm ready.

00:25:45.201 --> 00:25:50.044
All right,

00:25:50.064 --> 00:25:52.384
we're playing Run It or Rethink It.

00:25:52.464 --> 00:25:53.586
That's what this segment is called.

00:25:53.605 --> 00:25:55.826
I'm going to throw out some common beliefs

00:25:55.866 --> 00:25:58.708
in running, physical therapy, rehab,

00:25:58.728 --> 00:25:59.148
whatever.

00:25:59.729 --> 00:26:00.868
Your only two options.

00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:01.950
Should we run with it?

00:26:02.653 --> 00:26:03.836
Or should we rethink it?

00:26:03.976 --> 00:26:04.718
And then you can give me a little

00:26:04.758 --> 00:26:05.798
color while we're doing that.

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.463
So first up on running to rethink it

00:26:08.825 --> 00:26:10.547
stretching before a run.

00:26:10.688 --> 00:26:12.391
I'm curious because I never did this.

00:26:13.615 --> 00:26:14.816
Yeah, rethink it.

00:26:14.895 --> 00:26:15.395
Yeah.

00:26:16.196 --> 00:26:17.076
And it depends.

00:26:17.657 --> 00:26:18.817
And we can go over it later.

00:26:19.239 --> 00:26:20.519
It depends if we're talking about static

00:26:20.538 --> 00:26:21.059
or dynamic.

00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.760
I would assume maybe in relation to

00:26:23.780 --> 00:26:24.821
whatever someone thinks stretching,

00:26:24.842 --> 00:26:25.742
they think static.

00:26:26.063 --> 00:26:26.262
Correct.

00:26:26.282 --> 00:26:27.022
Definitely rethink it.

00:26:27.503 --> 00:26:29.585
This is me before every beer league men's

00:26:29.625 --> 00:26:32.366
hockey game watching my forty, fifty,

00:26:32.467 --> 00:26:33.768
sixty year old teammates.

00:26:34.625 --> 00:26:36.085
with the leg up on the board up

00:26:36.105 --> 00:26:37.105
to their, and I'm just like,

00:26:37.405 --> 00:26:38.786
I can tell you that that's a bad

00:26:38.865 --> 00:26:39.726
idea, but I'm going to wave.

00:26:40.067 --> 00:26:41.586
I, you know, I, where do I insert?

00:26:41.626 --> 00:26:43.086
I'm a teammate, not as PT.

00:26:43.146 --> 00:26:44.607
So, uh, by the way,

00:26:44.728 --> 00:26:46.268
I'm all for dynamic warmup.

00:26:46.468 --> 00:26:48.108
I'm the guy jumping around and getting

00:26:48.148 --> 00:26:49.489
warm and getting hot, but yeah,

00:26:49.528 --> 00:26:50.369
stretching never did it.

00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:51.309
How about this one?

00:26:51.569 --> 00:26:53.711
Running shoes past three hundred miles.

00:26:53.830 --> 00:26:57.231
Run with it or rethink it.

00:26:57.271 --> 00:26:58.291
Yeah, I think, uh,

00:27:00.358 --> 00:27:01.539
That was tough because there's so many

00:27:01.579 --> 00:27:02.000
models.

00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:04.342
You can always say, yeah,

00:27:04.382 --> 00:27:05.623
this is a physical therapy podcast.

00:27:05.643 --> 00:27:06.262
You can always pull out.

00:27:06.304 --> 00:27:06.784
It depends.

00:27:07.064 --> 00:27:07.865
Yeah.

00:27:07.984 --> 00:27:08.325
Yeah.

00:27:08.345 --> 00:27:09.306
I would say rethink it.

00:27:09.506 --> 00:27:10.747
There's, but there's different models.

00:27:10.767 --> 00:27:11.086
There's some,

00:27:11.166 --> 00:27:12.407
I would run up into the five hundred

00:27:12.428 --> 00:27:12.688
range.

00:27:13.048 --> 00:27:13.909
Yeah.

00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:15.911
Uh, let's do two more, uh,

00:27:16.711 --> 00:27:17.491
run to rethink it.

00:27:17.511 --> 00:27:18.732
Pain means stop running.

00:27:19.690 --> 00:27:20.611
Rethink it.

00:27:20.671 --> 00:27:21.030
Hey, why?

00:27:22.031 --> 00:27:26.355
Because pain can it all depends on what

00:27:26.395 --> 00:27:27.636
their conditioning has been.

00:27:27.916 --> 00:27:28.198
Right.

00:27:28.298 --> 00:27:29.519
Sometimes people feel pain,

00:27:29.538 --> 00:27:30.539
but that's just discomfort.

00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.340
That's just the stresses of running.

00:27:32.442 --> 00:27:34.143
And it depends what your running cycle is.

00:27:34.482 --> 00:27:36.605
If you're a marathoner at eighty miles a

00:27:36.644 --> 00:27:38.727
week and you're six weeks into your

00:27:38.747 --> 00:27:39.107
training.

00:27:39.982 --> 00:27:40.583
You're going to hurt.

00:27:40.923 --> 00:27:41.183
Right.

00:27:41.844 --> 00:27:43.023
And a lot of times we can come

00:27:43.104 --> 00:27:43.243
in.

00:27:43.403 --> 00:27:48.086
Let's say you're just a you're a general

00:27:48.125 --> 00:27:49.346
runner that's going and running twenty

00:27:49.366 --> 00:27:51.208
miles a week just for fitness and you're

00:27:51.228 --> 00:27:52.587
having a pain.

00:27:53.048 --> 00:27:54.348
Well, it depends where that pain is,

00:27:54.568 --> 00:27:55.388
what's causing it.

00:27:55.769 --> 00:27:57.549
And if we can make some biomechanical

00:27:57.569 --> 00:27:59.151
changes where we just shorten your stride

00:27:59.171 --> 00:28:00.810
length or we just increase your cadence or

00:28:00.851 --> 00:28:02.731
we we change the load in some way

00:28:02.811 --> 00:28:04.032
and then start you on a program.

00:28:04.752 --> 00:28:05.854
You can keep your running.

00:28:05.874 --> 00:28:07.054
We just might have to change some of

00:28:07.074 --> 00:28:07.755
the intensities.

00:28:07.994 --> 00:28:08.515
It's definitely an,

00:28:09.394 --> 00:28:10.576
it's not an all or none kind of

00:28:10.596 --> 00:28:10.855
thing.

00:28:11.316 --> 00:28:12.757
We just make some adjustments and you're

00:28:12.777 --> 00:28:13.396
guided that way.

00:28:13.837 --> 00:28:15.258
So definitely rethink it.

00:28:15.278 --> 00:28:17.138
Last one we'll do on running to rethink

00:28:17.179 --> 00:28:17.259
it.

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:20.701
Gate analysis for every runner.

00:28:21.020 --> 00:28:22.501
Run it, rethink it.

00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:24.830
Rethink it.

00:28:24.891 --> 00:28:26.492
I think it's very useful for a lot

00:28:26.532 --> 00:28:26.972
of runners,

00:28:27.814 --> 00:28:29.095
but I don't think it's for everybody

00:28:29.275 --> 00:28:33.518
because there are people that have unique

00:28:33.557 --> 00:28:37.000
gait cycles that are very efficient and

00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:39.002
look great and they have no pain.

00:28:39.163 --> 00:28:41.444
So there's no need to change their stress

00:28:41.484 --> 00:28:44.247
load if there is no long-term risk for

00:28:44.287 --> 00:28:45.868
that.

00:28:45.888 --> 00:28:46.888
So not everybody,

00:28:46.929 --> 00:28:48.411
but I think a good amount would benefit

00:28:48.451 --> 00:28:48.671
from it.

00:28:49.595 --> 00:28:51.476
Our professors will be excited because

00:28:51.496 --> 00:28:52.135
that was a trick.

00:28:52.236 --> 00:28:53.696
Every time you see always or never,

00:28:53.757 --> 00:28:54.836
that's usually,

00:28:54.856 --> 00:28:56.778
I shouldn't say always a red flag,

00:28:56.798 --> 00:28:59.318
but usually a red flag that the answer

00:28:59.358 --> 00:29:00.058
is not always.

00:29:00.078 --> 00:29:01.400
All right,

00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.020
last thing we do on the episode, Logan,

00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:04.040
is called the parting shot.

00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:05.862
Today it's brought to you by our friends

00:29:05.882 --> 00:29:06.902
at Go Baby Go.

00:29:07.281 --> 00:29:09.442
That's the crew that mods toy cars so

00:29:09.462 --> 00:29:11.324
kids with mobility challenges can tear

00:29:11.403 --> 00:29:13.144
around like absolute legends.

00:29:13.224 --> 00:29:14.285
Mobility should be fun.

00:29:14.704 --> 00:29:15.486
They make it happen.

00:29:15.526 --> 00:29:16.125
You can too.

00:29:16.566 --> 00:29:18.126
Learn more at Go Baby Go.

00:29:18.867 --> 00:29:19.829
All right.

00:29:20.230 --> 00:29:20.832
Parting shot.

00:29:20.971 --> 00:29:23.036
Your last chance for mic drop moment.

00:29:23.395 --> 00:29:24.377
Soapbox statement.

00:29:24.858 --> 00:29:26.402
I already know which one I have,

00:29:26.502 --> 00:29:28.346
which would be ROI, return on impact.

00:29:28.767 --> 00:29:30.190
What's your parting shot for today, Logan?

00:29:30.965 --> 00:29:31.527
Let's go with that.

00:29:31.547 --> 00:29:32.208
That sounds great.

00:29:32.327 --> 00:29:35.651
So I think having a path that has

00:29:35.691 --> 00:29:37.313
the biggest impact is always the way to

00:29:37.333 --> 00:29:37.553
go.

00:29:38.032 --> 00:29:39.375
You have to balance everything else in

00:29:39.414 --> 00:29:40.976
life, both your personal life,

00:29:41.036 --> 00:29:42.237
professional life, money,

00:29:42.597 --> 00:29:44.318
all that stuff has a part.

00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:45.200
However,

00:29:45.721 --> 00:29:47.301
we're on this earth to serve and that's

00:29:47.321 --> 00:29:48.103
what we need to do.

00:29:48.462 --> 00:29:49.964
We need to go and impact as many

00:29:50.005 --> 00:29:51.705
people's lives as possible in a positive

00:29:51.747 --> 00:29:51.987
manner.

00:29:52.326 --> 00:29:53.387
The unfortunate thing with that,

00:29:53.407 --> 00:29:55.108
and we alluded to in the podcast and

00:29:55.189 --> 00:29:56.548
with some of the answers,

00:29:56.568 --> 00:29:59.151
is just that does take money.

00:29:59.191 --> 00:30:01.951
That takes effort.

00:30:02.132 --> 00:30:04.453
That takes things that are uncomfortable.

00:30:05.374 --> 00:30:06.994
That's just part of the game.

00:30:07.015 --> 00:30:10.257
So I think think of life as how

00:30:10.277 --> 00:30:11.958
much impact can I have both on my

00:30:11.998 --> 00:30:12.698
family's life?

00:30:13.018 --> 00:30:15.480
people around me all those things how can

00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.041
i serve in the best way possible and

00:30:17.061 --> 00:30:19.002
then figure out how to do it right

00:30:19.384 --> 00:30:21.505
figure out what everything else entails to

00:30:21.525 --> 00:30:23.787
be able to do that and then uh

00:30:23.807 --> 00:30:25.067
don't be afraid to be a leader in

00:30:25.107 --> 00:30:26.930
the field that's that's another thing too

00:30:26.990 --> 00:30:28.892
i think we need leadership we need pass

00:30:28.932 --> 00:30:32.013
we need strong voices but also we need

00:30:32.054 --> 00:30:34.896
to uh we need to make sure we

00:30:35.037 --> 00:30:37.138
are part of the solution which i think

00:30:37.179 --> 00:30:39.820
we're positioned to do that so i'm excited

00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:40.561
for the future with it

00:30:40.981 --> 00:30:42.548
love it if someone wanted to find you

00:30:42.929 --> 00:30:45.477
this is time to be shameless uh website

00:30:45.537 --> 00:30:46.118
how do they find you

00:30:46.791 --> 00:30:46.951
Yep.

00:30:47.211 --> 00:30:49.473
So Blue Rose Physical Therapy and Blue

00:30:49.513 --> 00:30:49.933
Rose Running.

00:30:49.954 --> 00:30:50.375
So if you go

00:30:50.615 --> 00:30:53.076
www.blueroesphysicaltherapy.com,

00:30:53.116 --> 00:30:54.218
blueroserunning.com,

00:30:54.798 --> 00:30:55.999
there's different paths for there.

00:30:56.179 --> 00:30:58.441
You have access to our clinical sites.

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.162
You have access to our running,

00:31:00.262 --> 00:31:01.884
our private coaching, biomechanics,

00:31:02.003 --> 00:31:03.585
VO two max testing, all these things.

00:31:04.846 --> 00:31:06.067
You can just find our information.

00:31:06.086 --> 00:31:07.708
Plus we're on Instagram, Facebook.

00:31:08.328 --> 00:31:09.108
Look us for that.

00:31:09.148 --> 00:31:10.891
We'll put that all in the show notes.

00:31:10.931 --> 00:31:12.211
We usually share that pretty well.

00:31:12.551 --> 00:31:13.493
That'd be great.

00:31:13.554 --> 00:31:16.037
And thanks to APT Arkansas for connecting

00:31:16.077 --> 00:31:16.357
us, man.

00:31:16.377 --> 00:31:17.138
We appreciate that.

00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:18.340
Yeah, it's been great.

00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:19.623
I appreciate you having me on the show.

00:31:19.883 --> 00:31:21.305
I look forward to hopefully another time.

00:31:21.965 --> 00:31:23.167
Logan, appreciate the time, man.

00:31:23.188 --> 00:31:23.989
Thanks for coming on the show.

00:31:24.289 --> 00:31:24.750
Yeah, thank you.