How Peer Review Actually Works (And Why You Should Care)

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make noise.

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Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

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At this year's CSM,

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I love doing the preview episodes.

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It's the movie before the movie.

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We've got a group that are pulling back

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the curtain on the academic publishing

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process.

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Think, you know,

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do not pay attention to the man behind

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the curtain.

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It's all about us.

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To help clinicians, students,

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and researchers understand how to get

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published.

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how to review like a pro,

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and how to break into the scholarly

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conversation.

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If you've ever felt like academic

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publishing was too complex, too exclusive,

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or just not for you,

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this conversation might just flip that

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belief.

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And wouldn't that be fun?

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Let's bring in our guests,

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Rachel and Dawn, to the program.

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Ladies, welcome to the show.

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All right.

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So love the fact that you were doing

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this because when I saw this on the

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docket, I was like, yeah,

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I have no idea how this happens.

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I have seen a bunch of memes that

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talk about like reviewer two.

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For some reason,

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reviewer two is always the mean one.

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I don't know.

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I don't want to get into that one.

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But let's start this with like, why?

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So why?

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Feel free.

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I'll drop the question like a hockey

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referee and you guys can both answer it.

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Decide who goes first.

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What inspired PTJ to create a session like

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this?

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Love name, by the way,

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behind the red ink,

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the dreaded red ink pen.

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So what was the inspiration?

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What's the big W?

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What's the why?

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Yeah, I can take that one first,

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if that's OK, Rachel.

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We talked about this.

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I think for me,

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having been on the author side of

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publications and things like that,

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it just seemed like a really scary process

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to get into.

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We work so hard.

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Everyone works so hard.

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They pour their blood, sweat,

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and tears into these papers,

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into these manuscripts.

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And then you put it out there for

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people to critique and to judge.

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And, and that's really a scary thing.

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And I know when I first was doing

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that,

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you get that first paper back and it's

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just covered in that red ink.

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People hate it.

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It was terrible.

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Maybe you got rejected and it's just

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horrible.

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nobody wants to feel that right.

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And so,

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but I didn't really know who was on

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the other side of that,

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making those decisions.

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And so we kind of came together.

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We thought,

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wouldn't it be a good idea to sort

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of, again, look behind the red ink,

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like you said,

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pull back the curtain to see, you know,

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we're just real people trying to do a

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thing to help promote our profession,

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to promote research within our profession,

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within our field.

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And so it's an opportunity hopefully to

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humanize the process and to help folks

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understand that,

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gosh, it's really not that scary.

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And maybe I could actually contribute to

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that decision-making process.

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So that's a lot of what went into

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all of this.

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Have you guys thought about just simply

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changing the color of the ink?

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No, just kidding.

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All right, Rachel,

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why did you just kind of jump on

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this?

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I don't know if I just showed up

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with a simple answer,

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but if it was green,

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would it be as bad?

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We should do a study on that.

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But all right, Rachel,

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why are we doing that?

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No,

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I think I've been on the editorial board

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of PGJ for four or five years now.

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And what I've really noticed is how

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seriously the editorial board takes our

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role as like the official journal of the

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APTA.

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So this CSN session is kind of a

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continuation of a lot of other things that

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we have been doing.

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So PTJ hosts like quarterly peer review

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labs where we bring in the last one,

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Danny Young and myself ran one for some

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people who are really new to the peer

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review process.

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But we really see getting more people

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involved in peer review as an amazing way

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to build not only like

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your individual experience with learning

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how to take a research article and digest

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it and apply it clinically.

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But we need clinicians and we need more

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frontline folks really engaging in the

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research because that's,

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we want to be publishing work that is

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clinically applicable.

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So I think this is just yet another

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way that we want to get out in

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front of members, PTA members.

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As a guy with a communications background,

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of course,

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I'm going to look through the lens,

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but if I don't understand it,

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it's more confusing.

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That's literally how it works.

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So by baby-stepping people through it,

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and I don't think it's baby-stepping in

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terms of talking down to them,

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but if you don't understand this,

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I will then walk it back and then

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walk you through this process.

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And then suddenly...

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maybe there's a little less red ink next

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time,

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or maybe I'll do this more if the

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process isn't so,

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or I don't feel like it's so daunting.

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So pulling back the curtain is a great

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idea.

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What do you think scares people most about

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peer review and publishing?

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And now we get into emotions.

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It's like, wait a minute,

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it's still about logic,

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but we are humans on the beginning and

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end of this.

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There's gotta be emotions.

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Where do you think the fear originates

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from?

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What are the one or many places?

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I think for peer reviewers or for people

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who are new, you know,

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get asked maybe for the first time to

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review an article,

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there's a lot of imposter syndrome.

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You know,

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you don't have to have a PhD to

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be a great peer reviewer.

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So our goal is to kind of say,

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you know, we want to hear from you,

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but here's some maybe ways that can make

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your review more or less helpful.

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And then one thing we're going to actually

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do at this session is take our own

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work as editorial board members and walk

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people through

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the review process for an article that

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we've published in ptj and just really say

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like here's you know full disclosure this

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is what i submitted this is what some

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of the reviews said this is what was

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helpful and this is kind of what helped

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get it ultimately published so they can

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really see that kind of process on the

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back end all right so imposter syndrome

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would one dawn another

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Yeah, I think the other thing that,

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you know,

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one thing we're going to highlight is that

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folks don't always appreciate or not

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appreciate, that's not the right word,

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kind of see the multiple different

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benefits to this peer review.

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So again, increasingly we all ask, well,

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what's in it for me, right?

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Certainly...

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As researchers, we as authors,

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we need to put our things out there,

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have it peer reviewed.

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So we certainly need people to do that,

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be a part of that peer reviewed process.

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But I think for me, again,

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speaking from my own experience, again,

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it was daunting to be asked to do

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that first review.

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Because like you said, Rachel,

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I felt like,

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I'm not qualified.

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I don't know enough.

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I haven't written enough.

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But what's ironic about the whole process

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is that by engaging with it,

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you actually improve your own writing

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skills and become so much better.

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So I feel like my writing,

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I can share this on PD podcast, right?

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Like in high school, in college,

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writing English, that was not my thing.

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I was a math person.

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That's how my brain works.

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I was a horrible writer.

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And so, especially for me,

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there was a lot of that imposter syndrome

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coming into this space.

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But again,

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it was by reviewing other people's work

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and understanding from my perspective as a

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reader, what resonated, what worked well,

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that's how I got better.

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And so I think that's, you know,

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for me, the nice bridge of like,

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gosh, you know what?

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I've learned so much just being a reviewer

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and reading more people's work that I

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myself have gotten a lot better too.

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So yeah.

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I forget who said it.

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I'm pretty good with quotes,

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but bad at who said them, which was,

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if you want to be a better writer,

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you need to write more and you need

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to read more.

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You don't need more readers.

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You want to be a better podcaster.

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You don't need more listeners.

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You need to do it more.

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And as I'm saying that out loud,

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I'm imagining what would a peer review

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process for my podcast look like?

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I don't know if we'd ever published

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episode number one.

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It didn't make any sense until it makes

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sense.

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So for someone totally new to scholarly

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writing, and I want to be very clear,

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I have a degree in journalism.

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I was the opposite of Dawn.

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Get me away from an abacus and get

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me closer to a dictionary or some words.

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But this is a skill.

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You're born with talents and skills of the

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things you build on.

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So if you want to get good,

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you can.

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So I want you guys to talk directly

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to the person who maybe wants to try

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this and is new to scholarly writing,

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which is different than different types of

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writing, writing for broadcast,

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writing for print,

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writing for technical writing.

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So for someone totally new to scholarly

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writing,

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Where do they start?

00:08:52.663 --> 00:08:54.205
Well, obviously your session at CSM,

00:08:54.245 --> 00:08:56.447
but where would you send them if they're

00:08:56.486 --> 00:08:58.208
not going to be there or after that?

00:08:58.288 --> 00:09:00.471
Where's sort of that first step?

00:09:01.942 --> 00:09:03.504
Yeah, I would say for me,

00:09:03.565 --> 00:09:05.265
what made the biggest difference also is

00:09:05.306 --> 00:09:07.528
just having mentors, you know,

00:09:07.567 --> 00:09:09.509
folks that have that writing experience.

00:09:09.549 --> 00:09:12.373
So I remember one of my first meetings

00:09:12.513 --> 00:09:13.774
in graduate school,

00:09:14.313 --> 00:09:16.395
I drafted my first paper, gave it,

00:09:16.495 --> 00:09:17.197
and it was horrible.

00:09:17.236 --> 00:09:18.118
Let's just be honest.

00:09:18.177 --> 00:09:18.817
It was terrible.

00:09:18.899 --> 00:09:19.418
It was horrible.

00:09:19.438 --> 00:09:21.000
Looking back, it was the worst thing ever.

00:09:21.441 --> 00:09:22.201
I gave it to her.

00:09:22.221 --> 00:09:23.543
She went through and just...

00:09:23.842 --> 00:09:24.143
But again,

00:09:24.263 --> 00:09:27.264
we talked through the process of where I

00:09:27.284 --> 00:09:29.187
was breaking down in terms of the clarity

00:09:29.226 --> 00:09:30.246
of my communication.

00:09:30.668 --> 00:09:32.568
And so we just talked about, again,

00:09:32.649 --> 00:09:33.669
overall structure.

00:09:33.750 --> 00:09:35.211
But then even within that,

00:09:35.530 --> 00:09:37.591
just really it's all about clearly

00:09:37.631 --> 00:09:39.313
communicating what it is you're trying to

00:09:39.354 --> 00:09:41.554
say and ensuring that that comes through

00:09:41.595 --> 00:09:42.275
really clearly.

00:09:42.336 --> 00:09:43.196
So for me,

00:09:43.255 --> 00:09:45.138
it's been some of the mentors that I've

00:09:45.177 --> 00:09:46.599
had, especially early on.

00:09:46.698 --> 00:09:47.879
Like now it's more, again,

00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:48.639
reading resources.

00:09:48.779 --> 00:09:50.643
really appreciating having read other

00:09:50.682 --> 00:09:52.745
folks work and kind of learning from that

00:09:53.086 --> 00:09:54.648
but initially it was really just having

00:09:54.707 --> 00:09:56.809
somebody that could be that mentor and

00:09:56.830 --> 00:09:59.354
they weren't afraid to maybe they used a

00:09:59.394 --> 00:10:00.754
green or a blue or a purple link

00:10:00.774 --> 00:10:03.438
i don't remember but they just tore it

00:10:03.458 --> 00:10:05.400
apart and it wasn't out of the place

00:10:05.501 --> 00:10:05.581
of

00:10:06.350 --> 00:10:07.432
you're a horrible person.

00:10:07.451 --> 00:10:07.692
It was,

00:10:08.072 --> 00:10:09.493
I want to help you get better.

00:10:09.572 --> 00:10:11.033
And so it was really that early

00:10:11.072 --> 00:10:11.594
mentorship.

00:10:11.614 --> 00:10:13.995
I mean, it sounds like,

00:10:14.014 --> 00:10:15.975
and I know this from experience being on

00:10:15.995 --> 00:10:17.476
the receiving end and then eventually on

00:10:17.496 --> 00:10:18.576
the re on the sending end,

00:10:18.596 --> 00:10:21.278
which is like giving feedback is a skill.

00:10:21.318 --> 00:10:24.000
Like this is a different type of process

00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:26.181
is the goal to use as much ink

00:10:26.201 --> 00:10:26.861
as possible.

00:10:27.381 --> 00:10:28.121
Probably no.

00:10:28.201 --> 00:10:29.462
Is the goal to make sure you don't

00:10:29.523 --> 00:10:30.082
lose them.

00:10:30.123 --> 00:10:30.302
Right.

00:10:30.342 --> 00:10:31.024
And guide them along.

00:10:31.043 --> 00:10:31.144
Yeah.

00:10:31.803 --> 00:10:32.783
probably closer to that.

00:10:32.864 --> 00:10:33.884
Step one, Rachel,

00:10:33.904 --> 00:10:34.884
where would you send them?

00:10:34.904 --> 00:10:35.365
Dawn said people.

00:10:35.404 --> 00:10:38.505
You can offer people in a different way

00:10:38.525 --> 00:10:39.187
if you want.

00:10:39.206 --> 00:10:40.047
I really like, Jimmy,

00:10:40.067 --> 00:10:41.726
how you called it scholarly writing

00:10:41.787 --> 00:10:43.587
because I think what some people don't

00:10:43.648 --> 00:10:45.328
realize is that you don't have to be

00:10:45.349 --> 00:10:47.690
a researcher to publish in PTJ.

00:10:47.830 --> 00:10:49.409
And so we have a lot of other,

00:10:50.090 --> 00:10:52.110
so there's PTJ perspective pieces,

00:10:52.150 --> 00:10:53.250
there's points of view,

00:10:53.311 --> 00:10:57.312
there's other types of scholarly writing

00:10:57.472 --> 00:10:59.754
that PTJ publishes because it contributes

00:10:59.774 --> 00:11:00.494
to the profession.

00:11:01.073 --> 00:11:03.576
So I think that's important for CSM

00:11:03.596 --> 00:11:05.278
attendees to, like,

00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.782
if you have something to say that you

00:11:08.841 --> 00:11:09.903
think, you know,

00:11:09.923 --> 00:11:12.926
could be published or needs to be read

00:11:13.005 --> 00:11:15.788
by more members of our profession and has,

00:11:15.808 --> 00:11:16.109
you know,

00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:18.851
some scholarly kind of background to it,

00:11:18.971 --> 00:11:20.974
this session will also help you.

00:11:21.193 --> 00:11:22.936
We're going to go through some examples of

00:11:22.995 --> 00:11:24.477
those pieces that are, you know,

00:11:24.498 --> 00:11:24.697
we have

00:11:24.798 --> 00:11:26.139
research articles that we'll cover,

00:11:26.158 --> 00:11:28.961
but we have also non-research pieces that

00:11:28.981 --> 00:11:31.203
we're going to kind of take apart and

00:11:31.224 --> 00:11:32.304
walk through as authors.

00:11:32.384 --> 00:11:35.769
So I think I would send people to

00:11:35.849 --> 00:11:37.350
PTJ's website and say, hey,

00:11:37.409 --> 00:11:38.792
look at the breadth of things that we

00:11:38.831 --> 00:11:39.231
publish.

00:11:39.272 --> 00:11:40.913
It's not just research articles.

00:11:40.933 --> 00:11:43.375
There are other things that you could also

00:11:43.956 --> 00:11:44.697
contribute to,

00:11:44.797 --> 00:11:46.379
even if you're not a researcher or even

00:11:46.418 --> 00:11:48.221
thinking about pursuing a research career.

00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:51.264
it makes now that you're talking this out

00:11:51.283 --> 00:11:53.264
and i'm a verbal processor so if i

00:11:53.284 --> 00:11:55.187
were to have read something that you read

00:11:55.366 --> 00:11:56.668
you you wrote about this i don't think

00:11:56.688 --> 00:11:58.630
i would have absorbed it well which is

00:11:58.671 --> 00:12:01.072
probably why you also have a podcast um

00:12:01.092 --> 00:12:02.413
seems like you're trying to be less of

00:12:02.433 --> 00:12:04.416
a gatekeeper and i know that can feel

00:12:04.456 --> 00:12:07.298
that way if you keep submitting things and

00:12:07.318 --> 00:12:08.679
you're not getting in now you feel like

00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:11.182
it's a gatekeeper and more like a

00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:12.789
I don't know,

00:12:12.850 --> 00:12:15.111
like a strainer or a sander.

00:12:15.751 --> 00:12:16.812
I know it's in there,

00:12:17.113 --> 00:12:19.994
but we gotta remove what doesn't need to

00:12:20.033 --> 00:12:21.514
be there so it can be more concise.

00:12:21.534 --> 00:12:22.615
So less of a gatekeeper,

00:12:22.674 --> 00:12:25.015
more an improver is the best word I

00:12:25.035 --> 00:12:26.297
can come up with.

00:12:26.336 --> 00:12:26.476
No,

00:12:26.517 --> 00:12:27.998
I think coach is a good way to-

00:12:28.018 --> 00:12:28.538
There you go.

00:12:28.697 --> 00:12:29.359
That's about it.

00:12:30.599 --> 00:12:35.461
Because part of the peer review process is

00:12:35.522 --> 00:12:37.722
really thinking about impact on the

00:12:37.763 --> 00:12:38.302
profession.

00:12:38.423 --> 00:12:40.563
So it's not only someone who's gonna be

00:12:40.903 --> 00:12:41.705
a copy editor.

00:12:42.184 --> 00:12:44.306
It's someone to help you hone the ideas

00:12:44.385 --> 00:12:44.826
and to say,

00:12:46.226 --> 00:12:47.947
what will actually have that sort of

00:12:48.626 --> 00:12:49.687
broader impact?

00:12:50.207 --> 00:12:53.328
Because we don't want to, PTJ,

00:12:53.469 --> 00:12:55.470
I think I can speak for the whole

00:12:55.509 --> 00:12:55.710
team,

00:12:55.730 --> 00:12:57.971
we don't want to publish good research

00:12:57.990 --> 00:12:58.951
that has no impact,

00:12:59.051 --> 00:13:00.932
even if it's a robust study.

00:13:01.652 --> 00:13:03.493
If it's not going to make any difference

00:13:03.533 --> 00:13:05.754
to a clinical therapist,

00:13:05.813 --> 00:13:07.875
it's not really of interest to the

00:13:07.894 --> 00:13:08.154
journal.

00:13:09.075 --> 00:13:12.056
And I think the coaching aspect comes from

00:13:12.216 --> 00:13:13.537
is kind of comes at a lot of

00:13:13.657 --> 00:13:13.937
angles.

00:13:13.996 --> 00:13:15.136
And really what we're trying to do in

00:13:15.157 --> 00:13:16.658
this session is train more coaches,

00:13:17.018 --> 00:13:20.119
coach more coaches to make them better at

00:13:20.158 --> 00:13:21.700
providing that sort of feedback to other

00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:22.000
people.

00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:23.080
Because that's scalable.

00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:24.019
I got to pay bills.

00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:25.321
Thanks to Empower EMR.

00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:26.681
If your clinic is stuck on an EMR,

00:13:26.701 --> 00:13:29.062
but slows you down, that's a you choice.

00:13:29.642 --> 00:13:30.702
Empower gives you speed,

00:13:30.722 --> 00:13:31.982
clean workflows and features.

00:13:32.023 --> 00:13:33.764
PTs actually ask for better notes,

00:13:33.844 --> 00:13:35.884
faster documentation and smoother

00:13:35.964 --> 00:13:36.585
operations.

00:13:36.804 --> 00:13:37.445
They all sound good.

00:13:37.764 --> 00:13:39.125
All wrapped up in customer support that

00:13:39.145 --> 00:13:39.787
doesn't ghost you.

00:13:39.846 --> 00:13:41.347
EmpowerEMR.com.

00:13:41.368 --> 00:13:44.912
That is EmpowerEMR.com.

00:13:45.251 --> 00:13:48.154
So you guys are able to speak from

00:13:48.235 --> 00:13:49.296
both sides.

00:13:49.576 --> 00:13:51.298
So that's got to be great, right?

00:13:51.357 --> 00:13:52.938
No matter what chair you're sitting in,

00:13:52.979 --> 00:13:54.760
you understand what the other looks like.

00:13:55.201 --> 00:13:55.961
Author and editor.

00:13:56.422 --> 00:13:59.544
What's one thing from each position you

00:13:59.585 --> 00:14:01.226
wish every new author had?

00:14:01.807 --> 00:14:02.807
understood?

00:14:02.868 --> 00:14:04.687
If you could be whispering in their ear

00:14:05.048 --> 00:14:06.208
when they're sitting there with that

00:14:06.249 --> 00:14:08.250
cursor blinking at them with Microsoft

00:14:08.289 --> 00:14:14.513
Word, what's the thing you wish they knew?

00:14:14.592 --> 00:14:16.173
I think what came to mind initially when

00:14:16.193 --> 00:14:17.313
you asked that question, Jimmy,

00:14:17.413 --> 00:14:18.394
is it's not personal.

00:14:19.028 --> 00:14:19.947
I feel like, you know,

00:14:20.107 --> 00:14:21.849
it's an episode of Godfather or something

00:14:22.129 --> 00:14:23.129
like it's just business.

00:14:23.168 --> 00:14:24.169
It's not personal, right?

00:14:24.210 --> 00:14:25.149
Like it's,

00:14:25.269 --> 00:14:26.850
it doesn't mean you're a horrible person.

00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:29.171
Like, again, for me, we're,

00:14:29.211 --> 00:14:30.812
we're being so vulnerable, putting our,

00:14:31.032 --> 00:14:32.451
you know, work out there.

00:14:32.471 --> 00:14:34.293
It can be really challenging when it comes

00:14:34.332 --> 00:14:35.653
back with some pretty harsh,

00:14:35.692 --> 00:14:36.673
sometimes feedback.

00:14:37.113 --> 00:14:38.774
Again, it's not an assault on you.

00:14:39.153 --> 00:14:40.934
It's really, I think of us, Rachel,

00:14:40.955 --> 00:14:43.034
like on the associate editor team,

00:14:43.054 --> 00:14:44.096
the editorial team,

00:14:44.395 --> 00:14:46.015
like we're really rooting for people.

00:14:46.336 --> 00:14:46.875
We want,

00:14:46.995 --> 00:14:48.777
if it's a good idea and like,

00:14:49.217 --> 00:14:51.100
a good foundation, gosh,

00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:52.702
we want to see that succeed, right?

00:14:52.763 --> 00:14:53.923
And so we're going to provide that

00:14:53.964 --> 00:14:55.066
feedback to enable that.

00:14:55.105 --> 00:14:57.067
But again, for me, it was, again,

00:14:57.107 --> 00:14:59.471
it's just these things come from a place

00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:01.854
of making the work itself stronger and

00:15:01.894 --> 00:15:02.595
more robust.

00:15:02.715 --> 00:15:04.417
So that's what came to mind.

00:15:04.437 --> 00:15:04.577
Yeah.

00:15:04.962 --> 00:15:07.205
I think you need a thick skin as

00:15:07.245 --> 00:15:07.846
an author,

00:15:08.046 --> 00:15:10.248
but it's nice to have both perspectives

00:15:10.268 --> 00:15:12.889
because you do realize that those reviews,

00:15:12.990 --> 00:15:13.250
again,

00:15:13.610 --> 00:15:15.351
they're supposed to be constructive.

00:15:15.393 --> 00:15:16.994
And what we're hoping with our session is

00:15:17.033 --> 00:15:20.017
to help reviewers be more constructive and

00:15:20.076 --> 00:15:21.498
more helpful to authors.

00:15:21.878 --> 00:15:23.799
And the other thing I would say,

00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:24.039
I think,

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:27.442
My like words for authors is say less.

00:15:27.461 --> 00:15:29.102
There is.

00:15:29.423 --> 00:15:30.583
And maybe reviewers, too.

00:15:30.724 --> 00:15:31.043
You know,

00:15:31.724 --> 00:15:34.384
I think one of the the journeys of

00:15:34.424 --> 00:15:36.647
becoming an academic writer is like you

00:15:36.846 --> 00:15:39.067
you start complicating your work and

00:15:39.087 --> 00:15:40.628
making it sound really fancy.

00:15:41.149 --> 00:15:43.370
And as you can probably say, Jamie,

00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:47.572
the scientific communication is often the

00:15:47.831 --> 00:15:48.552
simpler, the better.

00:15:49.453 --> 00:15:51.434
Yeah, brevity is the soul of wit.

00:15:51.475 --> 00:15:53.095
Don't use ten words when three will do.

00:15:53.254 --> 00:15:53.955
If you can do that,

00:15:54.034 --> 00:15:56.596
and that is simple, it's not easy,

00:15:56.775 --> 00:15:58.975
and it is also a skill.

00:15:59.777 --> 00:16:01.876
Let's ask a specific PTJ question.

00:16:02.076 --> 00:16:05.158
How do you see PTJ evolving to support

00:16:05.197 --> 00:16:07.698
clinicians and early career researchers?

00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.798
They are quite literally the future,

00:16:10.859 --> 00:16:11.799
and you've adapted.

00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:12.820
You've added things.

00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:14.659
You mentioned perspectives and podcasts.

00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.280
Those are some of the things.

00:16:16.321 --> 00:16:17.201
Future-facing.

00:16:20.870 --> 00:16:21.490
Let's see.

00:16:21.610 --> 00:16:23.432
I guess I'm one of the newer,

00:16:24.092 --> 00:16:26.153
earlier career researchers on our

00:16:26.193 --> 00:16:27.073
editorial team.

00:16:27.094 --> 00:16:28.434
And since I do a lot of the

00:16:29.034 --> 00:16:30.196
dissemination work,

00:16:30.995 --> 00:16:32.397
I think about this a lot.

00:16:33.456 --> 00:16:34.857
Some of the other things we're doing is

00:16:34.937 --> 00:16:37.178
really trying to get students involved in

00:16:37.438 --> 00:16:38.720
research early on.

00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.741
So we have a student lead every kind

00:16:42.782 --> 00:16:44.783
of couple of years who is a member

00:16:44.942 --> 00:16:46.344
of our editorial team.

00:16:48.524 --> 00:16:51.529
kind of helps me figure out what student

00:16:51.549 --> 00:16:52.671
preferences are.

00:16:52.691 --> 00:16:55.195
And so we're actually going to be doing

00:16:55.235 --> 00:16:56.878
interviews with our editorial board,

00:16:56.918 --> 00:16:59.000
with our student lead at CSM,

00:16:59.041 --> 00:17:00.883
talking about what their thoughts on the

00:17:00.923 --> 00:17:02.466
future of PT research are.

00:17:03.768 --> 00:17:04.888
But really, like,

00:17:05.509 --> 00:17:07.830
kind of breaking down that that silo i

00:17:07.871 --> 00:17:10.172
think for students to understand what goes

00:17:10.271 --> 00:17:13.993
into pt research um kind of right at

00:17:14.013 --> 00:17:16.434
the beginning of their education and know

00:17:16.454 --> 00:17:18.055
that all those articles they're reading in

00:17:18.095 --> 00:17:20.616
class it really takes years and a lot

00:17:20.656 --> 00:17:23.038
of blood sweat and tears to to create

00:17:23.097 --> 00:17:26.298
research and um so i think that's that's

00:17:26.318 --> 00:17:28.119
something that i've worked on don what do

00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:28.420
you think

00:17:29.048 --> 00:17:30.469
Yeah, I was going to build on that.

00:17:30.509 --> 00:17:31.689
I was hoping you were going to mention

00:17:31.709 --> 00:17:33.990
the student workers that we have, Rachel.

00:17:34.369 --> 00:17:35.789
I think the other thing too is,

00:17:36.570 --> 00:17:37.911
you know, it seems like within,

00:17:38.631 --> 00:17:39.731
we've had this for a little bit,

00:17:39.771 --> 00:17:41.372
but really within the last few years,

00:17:41.392 --> 00:17:43.032
I'm just looking at our website right now,

00:17:43.073 --> 00:17:46.074
but these sort of peer review labs where

00:17:46.094 --> 00:17:47.974
we're really encouraging for folks who

00:17:48.015 --> 00:17:50.056
maybe look at the process,

00:17:50.096 --> 00:17:51.776
the review process as being somewhat

00:17:51.816 --> 00:17:52.316
daunting,

00:17:52.636 --> 00:17:54.636
to really just bring them in beforehand

00:17:54.696 --> 00:17:55.357
and say, hey,

00:17:55.438 --> 00:17:56.298
join us for

00:17:56.877 --> 00:17:58.858
similar to what we're doing at CSM,

00:17:58.878 --> 00:18:01.680
this same kind of idea, but really just,

00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.280
you know, let's come together,

00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:06.382
let's review and critically appraise an

00:18:06.481 --> 00:18:09.022
article together just to go through the

00:18:09.063 --> 00:18:09.584
process.

00:18:09.604 --> 00:18:09.923
So again,

00:18:09.943 --> 00:18:12.565
it feels less kind of overwhelming and

00:18:12.605 --> 00:18:13.424
sort of scary.

00:18:13.505 --> 00:18:15.685
And so offering a lot of those sorts

00:18:15.726 --> 00:18:17.686
of opportunities through the website,

00:18:17.727 --> 00:18:19.028
through things like CSM and audience.

00:18:19.827 --> 00:18:20.288
And so again,

00:18:20.327 --> 00:18:21.628
we share those opportunities

00:18:22.489 --> 00:18:25.073
you know oftentimes with gosh anybody who

00:18:25.173 --> 00:18:27.196
wants to come we at our program direct

00:18:27.217 --> 00:18:29.038
them toward our phd candidates but

00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:30.902
certainly anyone who has an interest in

00:18:30.961 --> 00:18:32.845
publishing or just learning more is

00:18:32.865 --> 00:18:34.086
welcome to join those so

00:18:37.047 --> 00:18:38.988
The last thing I'll mention from kind of

00:18:39.008 --> 00:18:43.190
just the journal side is to support the

00:18:43.630 --> 00:18:46.171
average clinician is the APTA is invested

00:18:46.371 --> 00:18:48.653
in publishing and writing more clinical

00:18:48.692 --> 00:18:49.553
practice guidelines.

00:18:49.593 --> 00:18:51.834
So those you'll see coming out more in

00:18:52.513 --> 00:18:53.994
PTJ specifically.

00:18:54.134 --> 00:18:55.915
And that has been kind of a priority

00:18:55.935 --> 00:19:00.557
that we're really trying to increase how

00:19:00.637 --> 00:19:02.578
often and kind of the breadth of the

00:19:02.598 --> 00:19:04.079
different CPGs that we publish.

00:19:05.453 --> 00:19:06.275
Behind the Red Ink,

00:19:06.414 --> 00:19:08.855
Demystifying Peer Review and Empowering

00:19:08.915 --> 00:19:09.957
Emerging Scholars.

00:19:10.656 --> 00:19:13.218
Bold move, Friday, February thirteenth,

00:19:13.298 --> 00:19:15.400
ten thirty to noon at CSM this year.

00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:17.560
If this felt like you,

00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:19.961
how can you really miss this section?

00:19:20.481 --> 00:19:21.343
How can you really miss it?

00:19:21.623 --> 00:19:22.463
So make sure you go there.

00:19:23.903 --> 00:19:24.384
Let's see.

00:19:24.424 --> 00:19:25.785
We're going to do a little bit of

00:19:25.845 --> 00:19:26.226
a game.

00:19:26.246 --> 00:19:27.306
You guys down for a game?

00:19:27.326 --> 00:19:28.787
Sure.

00:19:28.967 --> 00:19:29.968
Why not?

00:19:30.167 --> 00:19:30.647
Why not?

00:19:30.688 --> 00:19:31.648
We'll do a quick game.

00:19:35.542 --> 00:19:36.683
All right,

00:19:36.763 --> 00:19:38.345
I want you to wear your editor hats.

00:19:38.384 --> 00:19:40.826
You got five seconds to answer these each.

00:19:40.865 --> 00:19:42.366
Dawn is already saying, great,

00:19:42.386 --> 00:19:43.468
we're going rapid fire.

00:19:43.548 --> 00:19:44.989
I'll count slow, don't worry about it.

00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:48.151
Just fill in the blank, okay?

00:19:48.832 --> 00:19:51.772
The biggest red flag in a manuscript

00:19:51.853 --> 00:19:52.453
submission.

00:19:52.493 --> 00:19:53.994
We'll go Rachel, Dawn.

00:19:54.055 --> 00:19:54.454
Rachel,

00:19:54.515 --> 00:19:56.836
biggest red flag that you can spot from

00:19:56.856 --> 00:19:59.357
a mile away in a manuscript submission.

00:19:59.417 --> 00:19:59.959
What is it?

00:20:00.598 --> 00:20:03.820
Oh gosh, I'm a big stats nerd.

00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:04.961
So pre-post design.

00:20:05.643 --> 00:20:05.903
Got it.

00:20:05.942 --> 00:20:07.243
Dawn, biggest red flag.

00:20:07.263 --> 00:20:08.463
Yeah.

00:20:08.523 --> 00:20:10.765
For me, it's the gap in the introduction,

00:20:10.845 --> 00:20:12.724
like not explicitly saying like,

00:20:12.806 --> 00:20:13.925
why is this even important?

00:20:13.945 --> 00:20:14.806
The significance.

00:20:15.286 --> 00:20:16.146
You have to take a stand.

00:20:16.166 --> 00:20:16.807
There's no tie.

00:20:16.926 --> 00:20:19.087
Oxford comma, friend or foe?

00:20:19.788 --> 00:20:20.387
Friend.

00:20:20.867 --> 00:20:21.409
Friend.

00:20:22.729 --> 00:20:25.210
Coffee or citation manager?

00:20:25.250 --> 00:20:26.049
What gets through you?

00:20:26.190 --> 00:20:27.550
What helps you get through a long day

00:20:28.351 --> 00:20:28.931
more power?

00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:30.211
Dawn already answers.

00:20:30.711 --> 00:20:31.511
Rachel already answered.

00:20:31.531 --> 00:20:32.251
You don't have to say words.

00:20:32.271 --> 00:20:33.272
They just hold up their cups.

00:20:33.292 --> 00:20:33.692
We got it.

00:20:35.162 --> 00:20:39.103
One word authors overuse in manuscripts.

00:20:39.143 --> 00:20:40.624
If you could say you can't use this

00:20:40.683 --> 00:20:42.104
word anymore,

00:20:42.144 --> 00:20:43.805
what's the one where you're like, oh gosh,

00:20:43.825 --> 00:20:44.244
what is it?

00:20:45.806 --> 00:20:47.365
This is a telling on myself.

00:20:47.645 --> 00:20:50.426
Thus is one that I use too much.

00:20:50.446 --> 00:20:53.167
I was going to say therefore,

00:20:53.228 --> 00:20:55.489
but thus is pretty close.

00:20:55.509 --> 00:20:55.749
Dawn,

00:20:55.788 --> 00:20:56.969
a word you could just say you can't

00:20:57.048 --> 00:20:57.229
use it.

00:20:57.249 --> 00:20:57.549
What is it?

00:20:57.569 --> 00:20:57.849
Anything?

00:20:57.890 --> 00:20:58.910
Nothing.

00:20:58.930 --> 00:20:59.289
Yeah.

00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:00.611
That was my first thought.

00:21:00.651 --> 00:21:01.631
So yeah.

00:21:02.133 --> 00:21:03.094
All right.

00:21:03.374 --> 00:21:06.497
Best way to win over a peer reviewer.

00:21:07.116 --> 00:21:08.377
Can they send you candy?

00:21:09.499 --> 00:21:09.638
No,

00:21:09.659 --> 00:21:11.160
but what's the best way to honestly win

00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:12.161
over a peer reviewer?

00:21:12.201 --> 00:21:15.423
I'll go first on that one, Rachel.

00:21:15.443 --> 00:21:17.744
You've been in the hot seat.

00:21:17.865 --> 00:21:20.728
It's in responding to their feedback,

00:21:21.188 --> 00:21:24.089
being thorough and constructive and

00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:24.851
responsive.

00:21:25.511 --> 00:21:25.932
Got it.

00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:30.663
Mine would be write clearly and concisely,

00:21:31.124 --> 00:21:33.385
but also what has Don mentioned,

00:21:33.766 --> 00:21:36.268
tell them why you wrote the study.

00:21:36.288 --> 00:21:37.147
Just say it.

00:21:37.188 --> 00:21:39.410
This is why this study is needed.

00:21:40.230 --> 00:21:41.551
Start with the end in mind.

00:21:41.612 --> 00:21:42.051
I love it.

00:21:42.231 --> 00:21:42.451
All right.

00:21:42.511 --> 00:21:43.153
Last one.

00:21:43.192 --> 00:21:44.874
This is finish this sentence.

00:21:45.875 --> 00:21:49.076
Peer review should feel like blank.

00:21:49.237 --> 00:21:50.458
What should it feel like?

00:21:54.582 --> 00:21:57.884
Therapy should feel like a really good

00:21:57.924 --> 00:21:58.846
therapy session.

00:21:59.807 --> 00:22:00.227
Oh, I,

00:22:00.487 --> 00:22:02.689
you answered that way different than I

00:22:02.709 --> 00:22:02.950
thought.

00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:03.769
That's awesome.

00:22:04.391 --> 00:22:04.691
Dawn,

00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:07.012
it should appear as you should feel like

00:22:07.473 --> 00:22:08.034
blank.

00:22:08.954 --> 00:22:10.957
My first thought was the learning process.

00:22:11.176 --> 00:22:11.617
Perfect.

00:22:11.637 --> 00:22:12.878
Yeah.

00:22:12.939 --> 00:22:13.378
Perfect.

00:22:13.439 --> 00:22:13.638
All right.

00:22:13.659 --> 00:22:15.020
The last thing we do on the show,

00:22:15.060 --> 00:22:17.083
we call it the parting shot.

00:22:18.169 --> 00:22:20.211
This is The Parting Shot.

00:22:20.732 --> 00:22:22.154
One last mic drop moment.

00:22:22.815 --> 00:22:23.616
No pressure.

00:22:24.057 --> 00:22:26.160
Just your legacy on the line.

00:22:27.550 --> 00:22:28.372
There's no pressure there,

00:22:28.412 --> 00:22:29.711
just like in the peer review process.

00:22:29.731 --> 00:22:30.813
It's just about dropping knowledge.

00:22:30.833 --> 00:22:32.334
I want to say thanks to our sponsor,

00:22:32.433 --> 00:22:35.236
US Physical Therapy, USPH,

00:22:35.256 --> 00:22:37.958
a nationwide network of clinics focused on

00:22:38.137 --> 00:22:39.219
developing clinicians,

00:22:39.699 --> 00:22:41.279
not burning them out, leadership tracks,

00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:42.540
mentorship, and career growth,

00:22:42.881 --> 00:22:44.501
and the stability to build your own future

00:22:44.622 --> 00:22:45.542
in this profession.

00:22:45.982 --> 00:22:47.784
Find out more at USPH.com.

00:22:47.805 --> 00:22:50.165
That is USPH.com.

00:22:50.205 --> 00:22:50.425
Don,

00:22:50.786 --> 00:22:51.946
you can go first and lead the way

00:22:51.967 --> 00:22:53.587
since you've done a parting shot before.

00:22:54.388 --> 00:22:55.630
What's the last thing you'd want to leave

00:22:55.650 --> 00:22:56.289
with the audience?

00:22:56.329 --> 00:22:57.451
Then we'll go to Rachel.

00:22:58.371 --> 00:23:00.051
Yeah, I would just say, again,

00:23:00.211 --> 00:23:02.791
we're just on the editorial team at PTJ.

00:23:03.232 --> 00:23:04.053
We're just, you know,

00:23:04.113 --> 00:23:05.952
normal people just trying to really

00:23:05.992 --> 00:23:07.894
support and promote our profession to the

00:23:07.913 --> 00:23:08.834
best of our ability.

00:23:08.933 --> 00:23:10.815
So come hang out with us,

00:23:10.855 --> 00:23:12.414
get a little view into the peer review

00:23:12.454 --> 00:23:13.055
process.

00:23:13.996 --> 00:23:15.615
I promise it'll be a good experience.

00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:18.321
Mine is similar.

00:23:18.422 --> 00:23:20.263
You belong in PTJ.

00:23:21.065 --> 00:23:22.806
We have a great community and we're just

00:23:22.846 --> 00:23:25.548
trying to help support our clinicians with

00:23:25.608 --> 00:23:27.730
the best research we can and peer review

00:23:27.770 --> 00:23:28.531
is a huge part of that.

00:23:29.352 --> 00:23:31.932
It'll be these two women along with a

00:23:31.992 --> 00:23:32.653
decent lineup.

00:23:32.673 --> 00:23:33.753
You guys got a pretty heavy hitting

00:23:33.794 --> 00:23:34.074
lineup.

00:23:34.094 --> 00:23:35.034
And again, I'll say that again,

00:23:35.074 --> 00:23:36.674
behind the red ink,

00:23:36.714 --> 00:23:38.454
demystifying peer review and empowering

00:23:38.515 --> 00:23:40.736
emerging scholars, Friday the thirteenth,

00:23:40.776 --> 00:23:41.776
ten a.m.

00:23:41.935 --> 00:23:42.537
until noon.

00:23:43.457 --> 00:23:44.537
Thanks so much for doing this little

00:23:44.576 --> 00:23:45.337
preview episode.

00:23:45.458 --> 00:23:46.758
I can already see someone listening to

00:23:46.778 --> 00:23:48.278
this on the flight.

00:23:48.499 --> 00:23:50.239
That's when I figure out what I'm there's

00:23:50.259 --> 00:23:50.838
a conference.

00:23:50.979 --> 00:23:51.579
What day is this?

00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:52.259
What are we doing?

00:23:52.299 --> 00:23:53.059
Let's get that app.

00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:54.320
Thanks for doing this.

00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:55.820
I wanted to pull the curtain behind your

00:23:55.861 --> 00:23:57.541
session and I hope we put some glutes

00:23:57.561 --> 00:23:58.221
and seas for you.

00:24:01.384 --> 00:24:01.763
Thanks, Jimmy.