Hard Work Didn’t Stop Working — Physical Therapy Stopped Rewarding It

WEBVTT

00:00:00.490 --> 00:00:01.752
You're listening to the P.T.

00:00:01.792 --> 00:00:02.515
Pinecast,

00:00:02.595 --> 00:00:04.620
where smart people in healthcare come to

00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:05.541
make noise.

00:00:05.863 --> 00:00:07.325
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

00:00:11.630 --> 00:00:12.429
All right, ladies and gentlemen,

00:00:12.910 --> 00:00:15.332
doing a quick Monday live stream because

00:00:15.352 --> 00:00:16.693
there's some interesting things on

00:00:16.753 --> 00:00:17.152
LinkedIn.

00:00:17.172 --> 00:00:18.472
And when there are interesting things on

00:00:18.513 --> 00:00:18.993
LinkedIn,

00:00:19.153 --> 00:00:20.493
I like to point them out because there's

00:00:20.533 --> 00:00:22.876
not always interesting things on LinkedIn.

00:00:22.916 --> 00:00:24.817
Sometimes it's just a lot of, well, noise.

00:00:25.937 --> 00:00:27.297
But I thought some good points were being

00:00:27.338 --> 00:00:28.638
made by this guy right here,

00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:29.678
Rob Panarella.

00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:31.960
And I wanted to share them.

00:00:32.780 --> 00:00:33.561
He had a post,

00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.262
and I think he got such a good

00:00:35.301 --> 00:00:37.963
response from it that he had a follow-up

00:00:38.003 --> 00:00:38.283
post,

00:00:38.783 --> 00:00:40.484
and then a follow-up to the follow-up

00:00:40.524 --> 00:00:40.865
post.

00:00:41.549 --> 00:00:42.369
which is always great.

00:00:42.551 --> 00:00:43.951
Interesting conversations happening.

00:00:44.451 --> 00:00:45.752
And this has been over the last couple

00:00:45.771 --> 00:00:46.131
of weeks.

00:00:46.872 --> 00:00:48.173
And before anybody tightens up,

00:00:48.292 --> 00:00:50.253
I'm not here to take down somebody.

00:00:50.534 --> 00:00:52.295
I think Rob brings up some really, really,

00:00:52.354 --> 00:00:53.375
really good points.

00:00:54.837 --> 00:00:56.737
But something is breaking in the

00:00:56.777 --> 00:00:59.158
profession and how we talk to each other

00:00:59.259 --> 00:00:59.918
about this.

00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:02.100
Maybe you want to call it a generational

00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:02.600
divide.

00:01:02.761 --> 00:01:03.301
I don't know.

00:01:04.081 --> 00:01:06.403
It keeps being framed as a work ethic

00:01:06.462 --> 00:01:06.882
problem.

00:01:08.162 --> 00:01:10.064
I don't think it's a work ethic problem.

00:01:10.424 --> 00:01:11.305
This feels a little bit,

00:01:11.325 --> 00:01:12.266
I know this is a podcast.

00:01:12.307 --> 00:01:13.186
We're also doing a live stream.

00:01:13.387 --> 00:01:14.427
I know it's a podcast and you can't,

00:01:14.649 --> 00:01:16.230
but it feels finger waggy.

00:01:17.450 --> 00:01:19.832
And I don't think it's a work ethic

00:01:19.873 --> 00:01:20.272
problem.

00:01:20.593 --> 00:01:22.114
And that's why I think we keep talking

00:01:22.174 --> 00:01:24.816
past each other and not to each other

00:01:24.837 --> 00:01:25.597
to find a solution.

00:01:26.257 --> 00:01:26.899
In my opinion,

00:01:26.938 --> 00:01:28.359
if we keep framing this as a work

00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:29.040
ethic problem,

00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.861
I'm going to use hyperbole here.

00:01:31.423 --> 00:01:32.843
These kids today don't understand what

00:01:32.884 --> 00:01:33.603
hard work is.

00:01:33.704 --> 00:01:35.686
Back in my day, agreed, said that,

00:01:36.106 --> 00:01:36.507
heard that.

00:01:37.506 --> 00:01:37.745
Again,

00:01:37.786 --> 00:01:39.266
if I don't think it's a work ethic

00:01:39.287 --> 00:01:40.989
problem, then what is it, Jimmy?

00:01:41.629 --> 00:01:43.150
I think it's a conversion problem.

00:01:43.971 --> 00:01:45.552
Again, I think Chris Voss,

00:01:45.893 --> 00:01:47.653
who's an FBI hostage negotiator,

00:01:48.015 --> 00:01:49.615
would point this out and he would say,

00:01:49.956 --> 00:01:52.697
one side of the argument is talking in

00:01:52.978 --> 00:01:54.540
logic and the other is talking about

00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:57.763
emotion and neither is better and neither

00:01:57.822 --> 00:01:59.924
is right and neither is wrong.

00:02:00.185 --> 00:02:01.045
How could that be?

00:02:01.486 --> 00:02:02.626
Someone's gotta be right.

00:02:03.206 --> 00:02:04.188
Let's walk through this.

00:02:05.509 --> 00:02:05.929
First of all,

00:02:05.989 --> 00:02:07.010
you have to know who these people are.

00:02:07.471 --> 00:02:09.431
Rob has more than more than forty years

00:02:09.772 --> 00:02:10.872
experience in the profession.

00:02:11.014 --> 00:02:12.634
He's not theorizing the things he's

00:02:12.675 --> 00:02:14.776
talking about and describing in terms of a

00:02:14.817 --> 00:02:15.497
career path.

00:02:15.877 --> 00:02:17.018
He actually lived.

00:02:17.139 --> 00:02:19.920
He actually walked and he's written.

00:02:20.100 --> 00:02:21.262
And here's I'm going to quote as much

00:02:21.282 --> 00:02:21.782
as possible.

00:02:22.062 --> 00:02:23.263
So I don't put words in anybody's mouth.

00:02:23.804 --> 00:02:24.664
I have enough words in my mouth.

00:02:25.384 --> 00:02:27.167
He said to achieve the professional and

00:02:27.206 --> 00:02:28.967
financial success desired,

00:02:29.068 --> 00:02:32.890
a physical therapist must provide value.

00:02:32.931 --> 00:02:33.472
Don't disagree.

00:02:34.177 --> 00:02:34.698
He continues,

00:02:34.878 --> 00:02:37.561
founded upon an exceptional work ethic and

00:02:38.281 --> 00:02:40.443
clinical knowledge and skill set exceeding

00:02:40.462 --> 00:02:43.185
those of your peers.

00:02:43.205 --> 00:02:43.825
That's true.

00:02:44.866 --> 00:02:46.888
Historically, that worked.

00:02:47.908 --> 00:02:50.890
The latter looked a little something like

00:02:50.931 --> 00:02:51.191
this.

00:02:51.412 --> 00:02:52.612
Would love for you to correct me if

00:02:52.712 --> 00:02:53.173
I'm wrong.

00:02:53.272 --> 00:02:54.373
Anybody listening or watching.

00:02:55.506 --> 00:02:57.747
Get really good, produce great outcomes,

00:02:57.986 --> 00:02:59.546
earn trust, build referrals,

00:02:59.727 --> 00:03:01.707
gain leverage, see financial upside.

00:03:02.467 --> 00:03:03.968
That ladder existed.

00:03:04.588 --> 00:03:06.169
A lot of people climbed it.

00:03:06.650 --> 00:03:07.629
Rob is one of them.

00:03:08.971 --> 00:03:10.031
That's what it feels like.

00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:11.330
So I'm trying to read into what Rob

00:03:11.371 --> 00:03:11.611
said.

00:03:11.771 --> 00:03:12.572
I don't disagree.

00:03:14.231 --> 00:03:15.953
I think Rob is also very clear about

00:03:16.013 --> 00:03:18.054
something that people keep misinterpreting

00:03:18.093 --> 00:03:18.454
as well.

00:03:19.914 --> 00:03:20.435
Rob says,

00:03:20.495 --> 00:03:23.258
working hard was not implying to increase

00:03:23.298 --> 00:03:24.938
the number of patients seen in a day.

00:03:25.179 --> 00:03:27.480
I think that's a quote.

00:03:27.501 --> 00:03:29.122
I think that's good news for everybody.

00:03:30.122 --> 00:03:32.024
Rob defines hard work in this way.

00:03:32.223 --> 00:03:32.724
Here's a quote,

00:03:33.284 --> 00:03:35.486
working hard implies continuing education,

00:03:35.546 --> 00:03:36.747
spending time with surgeons,

00:03:36.927 --> 00:03:38.848
learning the business of physical therapy.

00:03:39.669 --> 00:03:40.569
All the things I just said,

00:03:41.561 --> 00:03:42.762
Bill value.

00:03:42.782 --> 00:03:45.524
The question I think newer physical

00:03:45.544 --> 00:03:48.245
therapists are asking isn't whether

00:03:48.406 --> 00:03:51.127
everything Rob said creates value.

00:03:52.768 --> 00:03:54.810
It's whether that value still converts

00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:58.692
into upside predictably.

00:03:58.931 --> 00:04:00.873
See how I'd pause for dramatic effect?

00:04:00.894 --> 00:04:02.875
Because I think that's why I don't think

00:04:02.895 --> 00:04:03.915
it's a hard work problem.

00:04:04.395 --> 00:04:06.837
I think this is a conversion problem.

00:04:07.647 --> 00:04:09.468
Let me give you a scenario that I

00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:11.150
read often.

00:04:12.091 --> 00:04:13.792
A new grad PT starts their first job,

00:04:14.171 --> 00:04:14.872
ready to work hard.

00:04:15.633 --> 00:04:18.495
Productivity expectations, let's say,

00:04:18.535 --> 00:04:20.096
fourteen to sixteen patients a day.

00:04:20.456 --> 00:04:22.038
Documentation bleeds into nights.

00:04:22.458 --> 00:04:24.499
Student loan payments begin a few months

00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:25.360
after graduating.

00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.562
They're encouraged to get involved,

00:04:29.583 --> 00:04:30.504
do some of that hard work.

00:04:30.663 --> 00:04:31.423
Unpaid weekends,

00:04:31.524 --> 00:04:32.504
we can call it what it is,

00:04:33.384 --> 00:04:35.687
unpaid weekends, shadowing surgeons,

00:04:35.786 --> 00:04:36.487
more courses.

00:04:37.678 --> 00:04:40.622
while raises are modest and ownership

00:04:40.802 --> 00:04:43.605
isn't really on the table a lot of

00:04:43.685 --> 00:04:44.084
times.

00:04:45.266 --> 00:04:46.548
Is this why we see a lot of

00:04:46.567 --> 00:04:51.853
the single provider clinics popping up?

00:04:51.913 --> 00:04:52.973
Spoiler alert, I believe so.

00:04:54.235 --> 00:04:55.497
In my example there,

00:04:55.576 --> 00:04:58.158
that new grad PT or that plucky PT

00:04:58.259 --> 00:04:59.360
isn't avoiding effort.

00:05:00.336 --> 00:05:01.637
They're asking a question.

00:05:01.737 --> 00:05:04.319
They're trying to understand the return.

00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:05.521
This goes back to my premise.

00:05:05.841 --> 00:05:07.583
Is this a hard work problem or a

00:05:07.622 --> 00:05:10.245
conversion problem?

00:05:10.264 --> 00:05:11.966
The question I feel like we're being asked

00:05:12.047 --> 00:05:12.206
is,

00:05:12.266 --> 00:05:13.749
or that the new grad PT is asking,

00:05:14.569 --> 00:05:17.252
if and when I become exceptional to what

00:05:17.312 --> 00:05:18.093
Rob just said,

00:05:19.666 --> 00:05:22.588
Who gets rewarded for that?

00:05:23.187 --> 00:05:23.908
Now, keep in mind,

00:05:24.067 --> 00:05:25.327
I like to look at similarities and

00:05:25.367 --> 00:05:25.848
differences.

00:05:26.247 --> 00:05:27.488
So Rob did this as well.

00:05:27.548 --> 00:05:28.548
He brought it and we'll bring up an

00:05:28.689 --> 00:05:30.189
Elon Musk reference later.

00:05:30.869 --> 00:05:32.649
But let me bring up some parallels and

00:05:32.670 --> 00:05:34.910
we'll see if they're similar or different.

00:05:35.529 --> 00:05:36.790
Journalism went through this.

00:05:37.430 --> 00:05:38.690
Retail went through this.

00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:40.951
Tech is going through this now.

00:05:42.132 --> 00:05:44.072
When professions move from apprenticeship

00:05:44.211 --> 00:05:47.173
ladders to efficiency systems ladders,

00:05:49.170 --> 00:05:51.190
excellence doesn't disappear,

00:05:53.471 --> 00:05:55.413
but when professions move from these

00:05:55.473 --> 00:05:57.093
ladders to efficiency systems,

00:05:58.055 --> 00:05:59.696
it just stops converting well.

00:06:00.615 --> 00:06:06.579
As in, hey, in my experience, work hard,

00:06:08.170 --> 00:06:08.951
work nights,

00:06:09.572 --> 00:06:12.134
work weekends at radio stations for little

00:06:12.173 --> 00:06:12.995
to no pay.

00:06:13.514 --> 00:06:14.036
Keep in mind,

00:06:14.536 --> 00:06:16.798
I worked for several years with no pay.

00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.439
I was okay with that because I saw

00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:19.961
the ladder.

00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:22.002
I saw the first rung that I was

00:06:22.142 --> 00:06:24.545
on and I saw other people around me

00:06:25.264 --> 00:06:27.586
who were one, two, fifteen steps ahead.

00:06:28.028 --> 00:06:30.069
I understand this for that.

00:06:30.228 --> 00:06:32.190
Quid pro quo.

00:06:32.531 --> 00:06:34.572
Turns out studying Latin in journalism

00:06:34.593 --> 00:06:35.374
school actually makes sense.

00:06:36.658 --> 00:06:38.420
I think that's the shift people are

00:06:38.459 --> 00:06:39.100
reacting to,

00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.302
in that the latter isn't converting

00:06:43.502 --> 00:06:44.002
anymore.

00:06:44.502 --> 00:06:45.083
So they're not saying,

00:06:45.103 --> 00:06:45.983
I don't want to work hard.

00:06:46.023 --> 00:06:46.463
They're going to go,

00:06:46.483 --> 00:06:48.543
I'm going to keep staying on rung one.

00:06:49.404 --> 00:06:49.964
Why bother?

00:06:52.206 --> 00:06:53.266
What's my citation?

00:06:54.526 --> 00:06:56.468
People leaving the profession at mass.

00:06:57.608 --> 00:07:00.348
So Rob is also direct about reimbursement,

00:07:00.369 --> 00:07:00.910
which I agree.

00:07:01.985 --> 00:07:03.346
Reimbursement rates will likely not

00:07:03.387 --> 00:07:03.987
increase soon.

00:07:04.507 --> 00:07:05.889
PTs are gonna have to work hard.

00:07:06.170 --> 00:07:06.750
Here's where I'm gonna,

00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:09.291
and I've invited Rob to talk about this.

00:07:11.093 --> 00:07:13.415
I don't understand what that part means

00:07:13.555 --> 00:07:15.216
because I think, I'll say it again,

00:07:15.697 --> 00:07:17.319
reimbursement rates will likely not

00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:17.980
increase soon.

00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:20.242
Hard disagree, I'm sorry, hard agree,

00:07:20.302 --> 00:07:20.882
agree.

00:07:20.982 --> 00:07:21.723
Agree, agree, agree.

00:07:22.103 --> 00:07:25.485
If you listen to our live streams with

00:07:25.545 --> 00:07:28.088
Tony and Dave Kittle, it's not going to.

00:07:29.166 --> 00:07:31.249
rob rob is actually kind reimbursement

00:07:31.288 --> 00:07:33.410
rates will likely not increase soon i

00:07:33.430 --> 00:07:34.810
would come in and go i will triple

00:07:34.831 --> 00:07:36.892
down on rob what rob said they will

00:07:36.952 --> 00:07:40.574
not increase soon or otherwise pretend

00:07:40.735 --> 00:07:43.437
they're zero what if insurance could be

00:07:43.458 --> 00:07:44.617
the loss leader that's a different

00:07:44.658 --> 00:07:46.920
conversation here's my confusion about

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.461
rob's quote reimbursement rates will

00:07:49.482 --> 00:07:52.064
likely not increase pts are going to have

00:07:52.084 --> 00:07:55.406
to work hard agreed but that leads to

00:07:55.446 --> 00:07:57.288
a fair follow-up question how

00:07:59.237 --> 00:08:00.920
I don't think new grads or anybody,

00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:01.879
I don't think it matters where you are

00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:02.341
in your career.

00:08:02.661 --> 00:08:04.682
I don't think physical therapists treating

00:08:04.702 --> 00:08:06.524
clinicians are avoiding effort for the

00:08:06.564 --> 00:08:06.985
most part.

00:08:08.826 --> 00:08:09.706
I'd stand behind that.

00:08:09.726 --> 00:08:11.028
I don't think they're avoiding effort.

00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:14.531
I think they're questioning the return,

00:08:16.033 --> 00:08:17.593
which is a thing I also hear many

00:08:17.634 --> 00:08:19.396
people say, well,

00:08:19.475 --> 00:08:21.637
then PT students need to understand,

00:08:22.778 --> 00:08:25.221
become financially literate.

00:08:26.225 --> 00:08:27.567
Get it economically literate.

00:08:27.586 --> 00:08:29.367
When you sign on that dotted line to

00:08:29.408 --> 00:08:30.528
take out your loan,

00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:33.091
understand what you're committing to and

00:08:33.110 --> 00:08:33.672
you pay back.

00:08:33.711 --> 00:08:34.792
You pay back every nickel.

00:08:34.893 --> 00:08:35.452
Agreed.

00:08:38.095 --> 00:08:39.956
I think what they're doing here while they

00:08:39.995 --> 00:08:40.456
work, they go,

00:08:40.537 --> 00:08:41.677
so I'm going to do this.

00:08:41.798 --> 00:08:43.339
I'm looking at the ladder and I don't

00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:46.240
see many people on it and the people

00:08:46.260 --> 00:08:47.402
that are aren't moving.

00:08:48.856 --> 00:08:51.759
I don't think they're avoiding effort.

00:08:51.839 --> 00:08:53.399
They're questioning the ROI.

00:08:53.438 --> 00:08:54.500
That's not entitlement.

00:08:54.580 --> 00:08:56.041
This is where I think an agreement,

00:08:56.260 --> 00:08:57.381
the disagreement happens.

00:08:57.761 --> 00:08:58.302
Right here.

00:08:58.562 --> 00:08:59.602
This is the intersection.

00:09:00.903 --> 00:09:03.764
That's not entitlement, everybody.

00:09:03.804 --> 00:09:07.687
That's asking questions to become economic

00:09:09.427 --> 00:09:09.847
literacy.

00:09:10.187 --> 00:09:10.928
That's a path to it.

00:09:10.989 --> 00:09:12.229
Hey, I'm going to do all this.

00:09:12.528 --> 00:09:12.789
Good.

00:09:12.929 --> 00:09:13.669
I'm okay with that.

00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:15.270
And then I'm going to get...

00:09:15.291 --> 00:09:16.932
We'll figure that out later.

00:09:16.991 --> 00:09:17.111
Just...

00:09:18.706 --> 00:09:21.328
anybody who says that to you run away

00:09:21.349 --> 00:09:24.171
from that person when they clearly define

00:09:24.192 --> 00:09:26.874
what you need to do and then says,

00:09:26.894 --> 00:09:29.096
we'll figure out where this goes later.

00:09:29.937 --> 00:09:31.599
I gotta be honest to me personally,

00:09:32.219 --> 00:09:33.941
big red flag.

00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:35.582
I think that's where the issue is.

00:09:36.644 --> 00:09:40.727
Um, now we go into, uh,

00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:45.404
a quote from Rob where he parallels this

00:09:45.764 --> 00:09:46.986
similarly to what I did,

00:09:47.027 --> 00:09:48.567
where I said journalism did this and

00:09:48.609 --> 00:09:49.089
retail.

00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:51.270
The examples in journalism, retail,

00:09:51.311 --> 00:09:53.653
and tech, journalism was be an apprentice,

00:09:55.115 --> 00:09:56.897
eat shit, make not a lot of money,

00:09:56.976 --> 00:09:57.477
work hard,

00:09:57.577 --> 00:09:57.837
but

00:09:58.563 --> 00:10:00.144
We all did it and we all progressed.

00:10:00.205 --> 00:10:00.945
Look, look around.

00:10:01.125 --> 00:10:02.586
That person's been there for three years,

00:10:02.645 --> 00:10:03.485
five years, seven years.

00:10:03.566 --> 00:10:04.326
Now see where they are now.

00:10:04.947 --> 00:10:06.147
Retail was the same way.

00:10:06.427 --> 00:10:09.447
Fold shirts, bus tables, be a waiter,

00:10:09.488 --> 00:10:10.469
become a manager, become a,

00:10:10.908 --> 00:10:11.948
like there was a ladder.

00:10:13.669 --> 00:10:15.910
But those systems don't operate that way

00:10:15.931 --> 00:10:16.270
anymore.

00:10:16.471 --> 00:10:19.613
Neither does PT, in my opinion.

00:10:20.133 --> 00:10:21.332
Rob does something similar.

00:10:21.373 --> 00:10:23.774
He references Elon Musk as an example of

00:10:23.813 --> 00:10:25.315
what hard work can produce.

00:10:27.788 --> 00:10:29.470
Extreme effort can lead to extreme

00:10:29.549 --> 00:10:31.610
outcomes.

00:10:31.650 --> 00:10:32.412
Here's the problem.

00:10:32.711 --> 00:10:33.732
That's cherry picking.

00:10:33.832 --> 00:10:34.953
That's a logical fallacy.

00:10:35.355 --> 00:10:38.336
Outliers don't explain systems.

00:10:38.356 --> 00:10:39.317
They obscure them.

00:10:39.818 --> 00:10:41.960
Most PTs aren't trying to achieve the

00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.761
thing that Elon Musk is trying to achieve.

00:10:43.782 --> 00:10:45.182
They're not trying to become billionaires.

00:10:45.543 --> 00:10:47.164
They're trying to build sustainable

00:10:47.205 --> 00:10:47.664
careers.

00:10:48.066 --> 00:10:49.907
So I think that parallel,

00:10:50.368 --> 00:10:51.469
that one doesn't hold up.

00:10:53.379 --> 00:10:55.440
I also don't think this is old PT

00:10:55.460 --> 00:10:56.581
versus young PT.

00:10:56.942 --> 00:10:57.621
I, again,

00:10:57.662 --> 00:10:59.482
will reiterate the core of what I think

00:10:59.523 --> 00:11:00.384
this is and is not.

00:11:00.764 --> 00:11:03.105
I don't think it's a work ethic issue

00:11:03.166 --> 00:11:04.167
versus entitlement.

00:11:05.547 --> 00:11:07.589
One is logic, one is emotion.

00:11:07.749 --> 00:11:08.549
See how Chris Voss,

00:11:08.590 --> 00:11:09.889
the hostage negotiator would come in and

00:11:09.910 --> 00:11:10.051
be like,

00:11:10.091 --> 00:11:11.311
you guys are just gonna be two dogs

00:11:11.351 --> 00:11:12.331
barking at each other and you're never

00:11:12.351 --> 00:11:13.633
gonna solve this unless you actually

00:11:13.653 --> 00:11:15.413
understand what the disconnect is.

00:11:17.034 --> 00:11:17.696
Here's what I mean.

00:11:17.775 --> 00:11:18.976
Here's where I agree with Rob.

00:11:20.217 --> 00:11:21.938
Hard work didn't stop working.

00:11:23.464 --> 00:11:25.385
the system stopped converting it into

00:11:25.446 --> 00:11:30.389
upside consistently.

00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:31.650
I think you need to ask yourself the

00:11:31.691 --> 00:11:33.351
question, which forms of hard,

00:11:33.451 --> 00:11:36.514
which forms of hard work still compound

00:11:37.034 --> 00:11:38.836
and which ones are just extractive?

00:11:39.517 --> 00:11:40.778
That in my opinion,

00:11:40.878 --> 00:11:42.840
and I cannot speak for all of new

00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.562
grad PTs, that is what they're asking.

00:11:47.784 --> 00:11:47.965
I mean,

00:11:47.985 --> 00:11:49.706
it's very confusing to me when people say

00:11:49.725 --> 00:11:51.067
like these kids today don't want to work

00:11:51.106 --> 00:11:53.568
hard or are they looking at what the

00:11:53.589 --> 00:11:58.812
hard work is and downfield on what it

00:11:58.893 --> 00:12:01.914
might bring and saying that math don't

00:12:01.955 --> 00:12:02.254
math.

00:12:04.501 --> 00:12:05.842
I can't speak for everybody that would be

00:12:05.883 --> 00:12:06.523
disingenuous.

00:12:07.062 --> 00:12:08.823
I feel like that's what it is.

00:12:09.744 --> 00:12:11.924
I think Rob's experience matters a lot,

00:12:12.125 --> 00:12:12.745
forty years.

00:12:13.345 --> 00:12:14.505
And if you look at his resume and

00:12:14.525 --> 00:12:15.706
I'll share his LinkedIn profile,

00:12:15.926 --> 00:12:16.567
it's legit, man.

00:12:16.586 --> 00:12:17.447
This guy's done the thing.

00:12:19.426 --> 00:12:21.227
I also think new grad frustration matters

00:12:21.368 --> 00:12:22.589
and what they're looking at.

00:12:22.749 --> 00:12:24.210
I think their response is actually

00:12:24.230 --> 00:12:24.750
appropriate.

00:12:25.110 --> 00:12:27.613
How could both people in this scenario be

00:12:27.712 --> 00:12:27.993
right?

00:12:28.374 --> 00:12:30.615
It's because one's talking about logic and

00:12:30.634 --> 00:12:31.755
the way something used to be,

00:12:32.336 --> 00:12:34.018
and one is talking about how it is

00:12:34.158 --> 00:12:34.399
now.

00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:36.580
What does this matter?

00:12:37.221 --> 00:12:38.621
My professor in PT school taught me

00:12:38.662 --> 00:12:39.903
research, Jason Craig,

00:12:41.163 --> 00:12:42.264
told me to look at things this way.

00:12:42.404 --> 00:12:44.287
What, so what, now what?

00:12:44.307 --> 00:12:45.488
I think the now what thing,

00:12:45.648 --> 00:12:46.548
we're seeing that.

00:12:47.741 --> 00:12:49.663
Professions don't lose talent when people

00:12:49.682 --> 00:12:50.962
stop caring or working hard.

00:12:52.844 --> 00:12:53.964
Nope.

00:12:53.984 --> 00:12:56.085
They lose talent when effort and reward

00:12:56.424 --> 00:12:57.985
drift too far apart.

00:12:59.265 --> 00:13:00.767
You're asking smart people,

00:13:01.047 --> 00:13:03.347
smart people to make a dumb decision and

00:13:03.388 --> 00:13:05.568
you're confused when they just don't.

00:13:06.288 --> 00:13:07.610
And then you blame the effort.

00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:10.030
Isn't that funny?

00:13:10.171 --> 00:13:13.672
Like you're talking about logic.

00:13:14.096 --> 00:13:16.636
Hard work over time equals output,

00:13:17.018 --> 00:13:18.038
but not in this system.

00:13:19.038 --> 00:13:20.318
I don't know if anybody would disagree,

00:13:20.359 --> 00:13:22.080
but I would implore you to.

00:13:23.421 --> 00:13:24.860
And then in comes the new grad PT

00:13:25.241 --> 00:13:27.643
using that logic saying, okay, show me.

00:13:28.663 --> 00:13:33.066
Hard work over time equals ambiguity.

00:13:34.066 --> 00:13:36.086
So if we want to keep great people

00:13:36.106 --> 00:13:36.866
in physical therapy,

00:13:36.908 --> 00:13:38.048
which it sounds like we do,

00:13:38.248 --> 00:13:39.668
I don't know that there's much agreement

00:13:39.708 --> 00:13:39.908
there.

00:13:40.448 --> 00:13:42.350
We have to get honest about where effort

00:13:42.389 --> 00:13:43.650
still creates leverage.

00:13:46.577 --> 00:13:47.818
Because it's not where it used to be.

00:13:48.019 --> 00:13:48.700
I'm going to say that again.

00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:50.980
It's not where it used to be.

00:13:52.503 --> 00:13:53.482
It's other places.

00:13:53.803 --> 00:13:57.086
I agree with Rob there.

00:13:57.105 --> 00:14:00.269
But that's where I think Rob's sentiments

00:14:00.808 --> 00:14:01.830
and his view of things,

00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:03.571
he's been doing it for forty years.

00:14:03.971 --> 00:14:05.272
I think that is a strength,

00:14:06.033 --> 00:14:08.215
but could also be a blind spot.

00:14:09.174 --> 00:14:12.878
Because what worked forty years ago

00:14:12.898 --> 00:14:13.778
doesn't always work now.

00:14:15.423 --> 00:14:17.205
So I'm going to give Rob a question

00:14:17.245 --> 00:14:18.365
list and I would love to hear his

00:14:18.404 --> 00:14:19.206
thoughts on this.

00:14:19.346 --> 00:14:22.527
I would love to hear yours because I

00:14:22.567 --> 00:14:24.187
think we are like two dogs just barking

00:14:24.207 --> 00:14:24.607
at each other.

00:14:24.788 --> 00:14:26.428
When one side of the equation says,

00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:27.928
these kids today don't work hard.

00:14:28.169 --> 00:14:29.009
And the other side says,

00:14:30.009 --> 00:14:32.331
but that work won't lead to anything I

00:14:32.410 --> 00:14:32.851
value.

00:14:34.032 --> 00:14:35.373
Notice how I keep using the same words

00:14:35.432 --> 00:14:36.352
Rob did, which is good.

00:14:36.613 --> 00:14:37.413
It's not just money.

00:14:37.994 --> 00:14:39.695
I didn't go into radio to become Elon

00:14:39.735 --> 00:14:39.995
Musk.

00:14:41.081 --> 00:14:42.100
I wanted to get up out of bed

00:14:42.142 --> 00:14:42.942
and love what I did.

00:14:43.501 --> 00:14:45.062
But my first year out of college,

00:14:45.163 --> 00:14:47.703
I made fifteen thousand dollars a year.

00:14:47.744 --> 00:14:48.004
Sorry,

00:14:48.323 --> 00:14:49.884
fifteen thousand five hundred dollars a

00:14:49.904 --> 00:14:51.044
year in two thousand one.

00:14:52.225 --> 00:14:55.167
As a broadcaster, loved it, loved it,

00:14:55.407 --> 00:14:57.408
was OK with that until I did that

00:14:57.427 --> 00:14:59.609
for two years and got promoted three times

00:14:59.649 --> 00:15:01.789
in two years with no raise.

00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:03.370
And then I was looking downfield.

00:15:04.443 --> 00:15:06.985
oh, this isn't going to convert.

00:15:07.105 --> 00:15:09.284
So I was that plucky young journalist,

00:15:09.625 --> 00:15:11.985
that plucky young broadcaster who had to

00:15:12.346 --> 00:15:13.527
do the nights and weekends,

00:15:13.846 --> 00:15:15.647
sign up for sitting in the floats for

00:15:15.687 --> 00:15:16.467
all the parades,

00:15:16.827 --> 00:15:18.227
doing the things other people didn't wanna

00:15:18.268 --> 00:15:19.207
do, fine.

00:15:20.288 --> 00:15:21.629
I wasn't ever gonna be a billionaire,

00:15:21.928 --> 00:15:22.649
also okay.

00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:24.029
I was fine with it.

00:15:25.330 --> 00:15:26.971
But when I started looking around saying,

00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:27.990
oh,

00:15:28.951 --> 00:15:30.871
this hard work isn't gonna move me up

00:15:30.912 --> 00:15:31.392
the rung.

00:15:33.394 --> 00:15:36.176
And when I was confronted with that math

00:15:36.216 --> 00:15:36.657
equation,

00:15:36.777 --> 00:15:38.337
I couldn't just go start a radio station

00:15:38.498 --> 00:15:39.558
in two thousand and two.

00:15:40.078 --> 00:15:41.980
You couldn't you couldn't do it.

00:15:42.841 --> 00:15:43.522
So I opted out.

00:15:45.102 --> 00:15:47.284
I worked from age eleven to age twenty

00:15:47.485 --> 00:15:49.407
one to be a broadcaster, became that,

00:15:49.447 --> 00:15:50.327
did it for two years,

00:15:50.607 --> 00:15:52.428
did everything right to me as an air

00:15:52.469 --> 00:15:53.850
quotes, did everything right.

00:15:56.052 --> 00:15:56.613
And still had.

00:15:57.898 --> 00:15:59.038
To ask myself that question,

00:15:59.077 --> 00:16:00.119
if I keep doing this,

00:16:00.538 --> 00:16:02.879
will the juice match the squeeze?

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.460
And the answer was no.

00:16:05.941 --> 00:16:09.162
So I left.

00:16:09.201 --> 00:16:11.282
I lucked out because on the way out

00:16:11.322 --> 00:16:12.482
the door, I ran into someone who said,

00:16:12.582 --> 00:16:14.263
I will reward that work and I will

00:16:14.302 --> 00:16:15.043
show you how to do it.

00:16:15.123 --> 00:16:16.624
So there are ways to do it.

00:16:17.144 --> 00:16:19.644
But simply blaming someone for doing the

00:16:19.705 --> 00:16:21.504
math and not liking the outcome,

00:16:21.524 --> 00:16:23.145
I got to be honest, it's lazy.

00:16:26.405 --> 00:16:28.368
if I channeled my own inner Chris Voss,

00:16:28.427 --> 00:16:28.868
I would say,

00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:33.850
understanding what logic and emotion the

00:16:33.951 --> 00:16:36.894
other side is living in is probably a

00:16:36.913 --> 00:16:37.474
good first step.

00:16:38.914 --> 00:16:39.995
So I'll have Rob on.

00:16:40.096 --> 00:16:41.216
I think we're, I mean,

00:16:41.236 --> 00:16:42.356
he brings up a great point.

00:16:42.397 --> 00:16:44.038
And I think the reason his posts caught

00:16:44.078 --> 00:16:50.562
fire and got a lot of interaction is

00:16:50.582 --> 00:16:52.203
because this is a really important issue

00:16:52.224 --> 00:16:53.565
that we haven't figured out yet.

00:16:53.926 --> 00:16:54.985
And I'm not here to say that I've

00:16:55.025 --> 00:16:55.506
figured it out.

00:16:56.277 --> 00:16:57.057
But from my perspective,

00:16:57.097 --> 00:16:58.658
I feel like that might be one thing.

00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.344
And I'll reiterate it again as I close.

00:17:03.384 --> 00:17:04.125
My parting shot,

00:17:04.644 --> 00:17:06.247
this isn't a work ethic problem.

00:17:07.047 --> 00:17:07.968
Say that all day.

00:17:08.568 --> 00:17:09.410
I think you're wrong.

00:17:10.230 --> 00:17:11.392
It's a conversion problem.

00:17:11.551 --> 00:17:13.473
And until you fix that conversion factor,

00:17:16.604 --> 00:17:17.663
That's it for this one,

00:17:17.923 --> 00:17:19.644
but we're just getting warmed up.

00:17:20.085 --> 00:17:21.986
Smash follow, send it to a friend,

00:17:22.205 --> 00:17:23.865
or crank up the next episode.

00:17:24.365 --> 00:17:25.426
Want to go deeper?

00:17:25.547 --> 00:17:27.887
Hit us at pgpinecast.com.

00:17:29.147 --> 00:17:31.128
Or find us on YouTube and socials at

00:17:31.348 --> 00:17:32.368
pgpinecast.

00:17:32.788 --> 00:17:35.069
And legally, none of this was advice.

00:17:35.150 --> 00:17:36.890
It's for entertainment purposes only.

00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:37.471
Bullshit!

00:17:38.570 --> 00:17:39.151
See, Keith?

00:17:39.351 --> 00:17:40.412
We read the script.

00:17:40.692 --> 00:17:41.392
Happy now?