Revolutionizing Mobility: A PT's Journey from Idea to Impact

WEBVTT

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I'll put the podcast trick

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is I actually record your intro last.

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So when you're not even here.

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So then I put that first, though.

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That's the trick.

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This way I know what we talked about.

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First of all, Matt, welcome to the show.

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Thanks for having me.

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This is great.

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All right.

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So let's give everybody a

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little bit of context.

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Tell us the story or where does it start,

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how you came up with the

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idea for your product, how you named it,

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right?

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And then really big picture,

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what problem were you

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trying to solve and what

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inspired you to take that

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very first hard step?

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Sure.

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So my product is really a

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next generation walker, we call it.

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My background is really

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heavy in post-acute care,

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mostly in skilled nursing

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and really heavily in CCRC,

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continuing care rehab centers.

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And I think that sort of

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particularly inspired me,

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at least when I look back,

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because you often follow patients.

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It's the CCRC, Continuing Care.

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You follow them through the continuum.

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And I felt like I saw

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walkers and everyday

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assistive devices in sort

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of all their lights, right,

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as a rehab tool where this

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is what the nurse's aide

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should get them out of bed with,

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as a rehab tool for me

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directly with my patients,

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and then them using it at

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home and kind of coming back and saying,

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this is how it worked or didn't work.

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Um,

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and I was inspired first and foremost

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by my patients who I felt

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like were asking me, Matt,

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you gotta be kidding me for

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posting tennis balls.

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Like you can't like nothing,

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nothing better here or when I go home.

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or you know rollators and

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other devices it just felt

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like there was always some

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sort of something off in

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their day-to-day that they

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couldn't do whether it was

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maneuverability stability

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um and then on the on the

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flip side of it I think in

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those settings particularly

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in inpatient settings we

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have a lot of tools in our

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tool chest that

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right now are very advanced

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in in gyms and clinics you

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know robotic exoskeletons

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and and partial body weight

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support systems that we use

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for the same patients that

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we then when we are done

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with them for our hour we

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unhook them from these six

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figure pieces of equipment

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and we hand them

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a fifty dollar piece of

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equipment that is not the

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wheel it's not perfect it's

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it's you know it gets a job

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done um and that would so

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you would combine patients

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telling me I feel like I

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can do more I felt like I

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would see more in the

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clinic and I would have

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better tools to showcase

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more um and I just felt

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like I saw a gap I saw a

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gap really I I now phrase

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it as a gap in everyday

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assistive tech there's the

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institutional tech and then

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there's everyday assistive

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tech and they just felt

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like there was an opportunity there

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All right.

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So let's zoom in on just a

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couple of different problems, right?

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Like four legs and a couple

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of tennis balls.

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Like, well, I don't know, man,

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maybe I'll push back, Matt.

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It seemed to work,

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but what are the frustrating parts?

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Like what are, yeah,

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if you're going to improve the Walker,

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what are the things about

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it that you're actually

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going to zoom in on and say, okay,

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let's change this because of this.

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So, you know,

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what's one or two or three of

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those things that you're like,

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these things need to change.

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Yeah, sure.

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So as a clinic,

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like treating as a therapist,

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probably my biggest one was

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sit to stand transfers, you know,

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hand placement and

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sequencing and all that jazz.

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When you step back from that,

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when people have struggle

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out of a chair and you

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really look at their

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mechanics the way you would

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look at their mechanics

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dead lifting in a CrossFit

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gym or something,

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and you do a fine tooth comb,

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you realize it's a really

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bad mechanical advantage to

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push up from what you're sitting on,

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right?

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And then the thing that

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you're reaching for does

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not want to stay stable,

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it wants to tip back on you.

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So you have this kind of,

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and so that's what I felt

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like I would see in the clinic,

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I would say, I mean,

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and we all that we treat these patients,

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we see, you know,

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add an inch or two to their seat height,

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and

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Give them the right hand

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positioning and foot positioning.

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And they often, you know,

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it goes a long way.

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It's very marginal.

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But then that wouldn't

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translate to the whole.

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So they really wouldn't do any different.

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And it just felt like, OK, well,

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the tool was not really

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designed to support that moment.

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It can't be a walker and

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help you walk if it can't

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get you out of the chair.

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It's actually the number one

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reason for disability and fall.

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So it's a huge challenge.

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kind of pain point in the

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you know moving through

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your your day functionally

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that was my primary that

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was what kind of got me in

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the garage was really what

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if you had more of an

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all-purpose tool for the

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full from I'm sitting down

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and I need to go do the

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full task that I'm about to

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go do and it'll kind of

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it'll it'll help me through

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all elements of that in

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case you know I need it

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All right.

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So you said move to the

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garage where I mean,

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even the computer that I'm

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recording this episode on was born,

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right?

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Apple was born in a garage.

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We talk about bands and

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computer companies.

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Did you have any design background?

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You're a physical therapist by education,

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but any design or

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engineering background or

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you just decided to take this thing on?

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None whatsoever.

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I have a dad who's an engineer,

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but in a way that is a

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completely different

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engineering skill set than

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like developing a product.

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I did sort of the Saturday

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morning run to Home Depot

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probably for the first time

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five years ago.

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And it was a massive failure.

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And I did maybe a handful of

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those where I'd go and get PVC pipe.

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And I had some drawing where like, OK,

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well, what if it was designed like this?

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I don't know really what got

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me to even that point.

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I just kind of did it one day.

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And it was it was it was go

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back to your day job.

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Very much so.

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And then around the pandemic

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and all things that shifted there,

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for whatever reason around that time,

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I kind of got a little bit more heavily.

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I think it was in the back

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of my mind and just

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something pulled it forward.

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And what I did was I reached

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out to engineers and designers,

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somewhat through friends.

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and so they're typically

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like a mechanical engineer

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and an industrial designer

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those are like the two

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skill sets that go into

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product development um they

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kind of pair together and

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that's how you get um going

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all the way to a product

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and they each were

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wonderful with their time

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there's a handful of them

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that you know um I could be

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business for them and they

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gave me kind of the honest

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truth of like look if you if you

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want to do this,

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you could hand this off to me,

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but this is what I'm going to do.

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And it's something that you

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could do in the garage.

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And really what it was, was a process,

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right?

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It wasn't just a

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go and get pvc pipe and not

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know what you just failed

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on but it was uh like pay

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attention to what you fail

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on pay attention to the

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little successes and kind

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of if it's going to go

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anywhere it's going to

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start with that and I think

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they kind of inspired me to

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to maybe give it more of a

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shot um and you've probably

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six to eight weeks of doing

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that on weekends and I had

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a provisionally patented uh

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mock-up prototype

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That's great.

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What was the reason they were so nice?

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Did they sort of take a

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liking to the fact that you

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were trying to sort of

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solve a problem that, you know,

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maybe they touched them personally?

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Or like,

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what was the reason they were so giving?

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I have found exactly that.

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I think often product developers,

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they're not necessarily

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developing products that

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can have a meaningful

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impact on someone's quality of life.

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Maybe they have a personal

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story related to someone

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with assistive needs, right?

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But that was a hundred percent.

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I felt like they just gave

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me more of their time of

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day because I had a helping product,

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which is kind of what I've

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told other PTs who have

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thought of things.

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People want to help people

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live their lives better and

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not take advantage of that,

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but it went a long way for me.

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Yeah,

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or as some great geriatric PTs that

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I've gotten to speak to,

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it's like we're all

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geriatric patients in training, right?

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We want to get there,

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which is an advantage.

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You're creating something

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that maybe you're going to

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need to use one day.

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Let's talk about challenges,

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getting from where you

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started in the garage or

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the idea to where you are now.

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What were some of the

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biggest challenges you

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encountered in the early

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stages and through

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development of the product?

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And then how did you maybe overcome them?

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What are some of the

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potholes that maybe the

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person like me who's never

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done this doesn't really ever get to see?

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Yeah, I think, you know.

00:08:34.385 --> 00:08:36.366
One of the things I tried early on,

00:08:37.408 --> 00:08:38.028
and I would literally

00:08:38.649 --> 00:08:40.509
almost ask everyone I got

00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:41.389
in touch with was,

00:08:42.230 --> 00:08:43.432
what does success look like

00:08:43.451 --> 00:08:44.412
with something like this?

00:08:44.611 --> 00:08:45.212
I really wanted to

00:08:45.312 --> 00:08:47.553
understand where I was going.

00:08:47.573 --> 00:08:49.034
And even in an incremental way,

00:08:49.054 --> 00:08:50.015
like what's the next kind

00:08:50.035 --> 00:08:51.157
of milestone thing?

00:08:51.937 --> 00:08:54.400
to the full prototype to production.

00:08:55.883 --> 00:08:57.426
And the challenges are just

00:08:57.466 --> 00:08:59.469
that there is so much that

00:08:59.509 --> 00:09:01.711
goes into something that

00:09:01.812 --> 00:09:03.114
actually hits our shelves

00:09:04.076 --> 00:09:06.799
that we could ever know.

00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:08.361
And I think our product,

00:09:08.402 --> 00:09:09.543
while it's pretty simple

00:09:10.504 --> 00:09:12.427
from a standpoint of FDA regulation,

00:09:12.466 --> 00:09:14.028
there is that extra layer,

00:09:14.229 --> 00:09:15.551
especially if you want to do it right,

00:09:16.871 --> 00:09:19.434
of liability, reliability,

00:09:19.514 --> 00:09:20.797
sort of quality management,

00:09:21.597 --> 00:09:22.318
the way you want to do it

00:09:22.339 --> 00:09:23.320
in the design phase,

00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.261
as well as then once you're

00:09:25.342 --> 00:09:25.942
on the market.

00:09:26.644 --> 00:09:28.004
A lot of that takes time and

00:09:28.044 --> 00:09:29.445
it takes money.

00:09:29.764 --> 00:09:30.924
And so, you know,

00:09:30.965 --> 00:09:31.865
I got that originally

00:09:31.905 --> 00:09:33.946
patented prototype and I was like, oh,

00:09:33.966 --> 00:09:34.147
man,

00:09:34.167 --> 00:09:35.167
I'm going to be on the market in

00:09:35.447 --> 00:09:35.826
three months.

00:09:35.846 --> 00:09:36.647
I'm going to have somebody

00:09:36.706 --> 00:09:37.748
do this for this

00:09:37.827 --> 00:09:39.607
ridiculously low dollar amount now.

00:09:39.628 --> 00:09:40.828
And I'm going to be selling

00:09:40.849 --> 00:09:41.889
these things in no time.

00:09:43.370 --> 00:09:45.350
And, you know, instead,

00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:47.051
that timeline was another

00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:48.291
better prototype.

00:09:48.331 --> 00:09:50.351
That was a good proof of concept.

00:09:50.371 --> 00:09:51.152
And I was actually giving it

00:09:51.192 --> 00:09:52.773
to patients and this is exciting.

00:09:53.452 --> 00:09:54.614
And then you realize, like,

00:09:54.854 --> 00:09:55.615
you either have to

00:09:55.794 --> 00:09:57.135
bootstrap your life savings

00:09:57.176 --> 00:09:58.356
away for my product.

00:09:58.636 --> 00:09:58.876
Right.

00:09:59.057 --> 00:10:01.119
Because I know others can be

00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:03.280
different or OK,

00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:04.662
maybe we need to talk to investors,

00:10:05.322 --> 00:10:07.624
which is just its own, you know,

00:10:07.903 --> 00:10:08.745
totally different.

00:10:09.605 --> 00:10:11.267
And I got very lucky early on where

00:10:13.028 --> 00:10:15.332
I got the company into I say

00:10:15.352 --> 00:10:16.354
the company this is still

00:10:16.374 --> 00:10:18.398
me in a garage but um I had

00:10:18.437 --> 00:10:19.219
some friends who were in

00:10:19.259 --> 00:10:20.481
the startup space and they

00:10:20.522 --> 00:10:21.864
told me about incubators

00:10:21.884 --> 00:10:23.005
and accelerators and

00:10:23.817 --> 00:10:24.836
these things I had no idea

00:10:24.876 --> 00:10:26.018
but I got into one and and

00:10:26.038 --> 00:10:27.138
then that becomes its own

00:10:27.177 --> 00:10:28.578
resource and then you meet

00:10:28.619 --> 00:10:29.619
people through that and I

00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.220
met an advisor um through

00:10:32.259 --> 00:10:33.280
that process who then

00:10:33.341 --> 00:10:35.100
became really a business

00:10:35.140 --> 00:10:36.501
partner really a co-founder

00:10:36.841 --> 00:10:38.982
um early on and he knows

00:10:39.003 --> 00:10:41.024
you know he really knew uh

00:10:41.043 --> 00:10:42.283
the way you go about this

00:10:42.323 --> 00:10:43.304
the way you raise money

00:10:43.345 --> 00:10:44.965
from right angel investors

00:10:44.985 --> 00:10:47.245
and bcs and um to get to

00:10:47.265 --> 00:10:48.125
the next stage really

00:10:48.167 --> 00:10:49.606
required uh what you would

00:10:49.626 --> 00:10:51.347
call a pre-seed round um

00:10:52.488 --> 00:10:54.688
And our prototype at that

00:10:54.729 --> 00:10:56.509
point that helped us raise

00:10:56.548 --> 00:10:58.710
money really needed to be

00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:00.370
developed into a production

00:11:00.410 --> 00:11:02.270
level product from a bunch

00:11:02.291 --> 00:11:03.370
of professional production

00:11:03.731 --> 00:11:04.511
product developers,

00:11:04.572 --> 00:11:07.653
not just a single one or two people.

00:11:08.493 --> 00:11:09.234
And then I learned what that

00:11:09.274 --> 00:11:11.475
process is and hooked up

00:11:11.495 --> 00:11:12.475
with a product development

00:11:12.515 --> 00:11:14.517
firm that really this

00:11:14.576 --> 00:11:16.038
product has been developed

00:11:16.477 --> 00:11:18.219
with a dozen people having

00:11:18.259 --> 00:11:20.900
hands in it and use that funding,

00:11:21.160 --> 00:11:22.061
get us to that point.

00:11:23.322 --> 00:11:24.802
And then that was still not

00:11:24.883 --> 00:11:26.484
a get on the market standpoint.

00:11:26.644 --> 00:11:29.265
That was just a you have a product

00:11:30.322 --> 00:11:31.523
Do people want your product,

00:11:31.543 --> 00:11:32.644
which is its own whole

00:11:32.703 --> 00:11:34.865
process that were

00:11:34.884 --> 00:11:36.326
challenges all along the way there.

00:11:37.067 --> 00:11:38.008
And we did another round of

00:11:38.048 --> 00:11:39.269
funding that really has now

00:11:39.308 --> 00:11:41.629
taken us to market and

00:11:41.649 --> 00:11:43.251
that's commercialization

00:11:43.292 --> 00:11:44.673
kind of seed round you

00:11:44.692 --> 00:11:46.214
would call in that language.

00:11:47.028 --> 00:11:48.469
So, so I'm going to stop right here.

00:11:48.568 --> 00:11:50.289
Let's just like make this a pit stop.

00:11:50.451 --> 00:11:51.571
Some things that I sort of

00:11:51.610 --> 00:11:52.451
noticed and you're the

00:11:52.532 --> 00:11:53.712
fifth episode in this sort

00:11:53.732 --> 00:11:56.254
of series and patterns just emerge,

00:11:56.335 --> 00:11:56.595
right?

00:11:56.774 --> 00:11:57.576
The products that we've been

00:11:57.615 --> 00:11:59.596
talking about are vastly different.

00:12:00.116 --> 00:12:01.398
And yet some of the things

00:12:01.418 --> 00:12:02.698
that you and the other

00:12:02.739 --> 00:12:04.159
guests have said are really,

00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:04.780
really similar.

00:12:04.801 --> 00:12:07.022
And two that strike out at me is one,

00:12:07.883 --> 00:12:08.383
not a lot of,

00:12:09.524 --> 00:12:10.625
um knowledge or experience

00:12:10.664 --> 00:12:12.085
or skills doing a lot of

00:12:12.105 --> 00:12:13.046
the things that you didn't

00:12:13.086 --> 00:12:14.025
know you'd need to have

00:12:14.066 --> 00:12:16.648
experience in um and the

00:12:16.707 --> 00:12:18.347
second being people which

00:12:18.427 --> 00:12:20.308
is you filled in those gaps

00:12:20.769 --> 00:12:22.269
with people you met people

00:12:22.409 --> 00:12:23.890
you sought people out a

00:12:23.951 --> 00:12:25.051
person might have led you

00:12:25.071 --> 00:12:26.111
to a solution or a person

00:12:26.192 --> 00:12:27.211
led you to a person who led

00:12:27.232 --> 00:12:28.753
you to a person led you to

00:12:28.773 --> 00:12:29.793
a solution it just makes me

00:12:29.833 --> 00:12:30.653
think of that song from

00:12:30.714 --> 00:12:31.835
sesame street right who are

00:12:31.875 --> 00:12:32.875
the people in our

00:12:32.894 --> 00:12:34.355
neighborhood and those are

00:12:34.375 --> 00:12:34.936
the people that are

00:12:34.975 --> 00:12:36.197
actually going to get that product

00:12:36.897 --> 00:12:38.318
to uh to market and then it

00:12:38.339 --> 00:12:39.580
just it feels like that

00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:40.640
line from the movie with

00:12:40.682 --> 00:12:41.982
matt damon the martian is

00:12:42.023 --> 00:12:43.264
like well we figure out

00:12:43.304 --> 00:12:44.586
this problem and then we

00:12:44.625 --> 00:12:45.726
solve the next one and we

00:12:45.767 --> 00:12:46.788
solve the next one until

00:12:46.828 --> 00:12:47.690
eventually you get to go

00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:49.991
home and yours is your home

00:12:50.052 --> 00:12:51.833
is getting to market so you

00:12:51.875 --> 00:12:54.157
did mention another part that

00:12:54.937 --> 00:12:56.519
people might overlook, right?

00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:57.682
Just create a great product

00:12:57.782 --> 00:12:58.863
and then build a website

00:12:58.883 --> 00:12:59.744
and then the world will be

00:12:59.764 --> 00:13:00.565
the path to your door.

00:13:01.245 --> 00:13:01.907
It's not always that you're

00:13:01.927 --> 00:13:02.508
already shaking your head.

00:13:02.528 --> 00:13:03.448
It's not always that simple.

00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:05.591
So how did you validate the market?

00:13:05.611 --> 00:13:06.753
This is a really important

00:13:06.812 --> 00:13:07.813
step that I want people to

00:13:07.854 --> 00:13:08.895
pay attention to because

00:13:09.475 --> 00:13:11.219
it's been sort of

00:13:11.379 --> 00:13:13.380
asterisked in every episode we've done.

00:13:14.322 --> 00:13:14.902
in this series,

00:13:15.001 --> 00:13:15.763
how did you validate the

00:13:15.802 --> 00:13:17.062
market for Nuveo?

00:13:17.123 --> 00:13:18.082
What steps did you take to

00:13:18.123 --> 00:13:19.443
ensure there was a demand

00:13:19.884 --> 00:13:21.365
so that when you got to that point,

00:13:21.424 --> 00:13:22.465
there was something waiting

00:13:22.485 --> 00:13:23.205
for you to meet you?

00:13:23.644 --> 00:13:24.785
And then how did you initially,

00:13:24.806 --> 00:13:25.426
or how do you initially

00:13:25.466 --> 00:13:26.686
begin to market this to the

00:13:26.706 --> 00:13:27.466
people that you think it

00:13:27.506 --> 00:13:28.326
would serve the best?

00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:32.302
Yeah, I mean,

00:13:32.341 --> 00:13:34.903
it's been the greatest overall challenge,

00:13:35.123 --> 00:13:35.482
I think.

00:13:36.384 --> 00:13:37.903
And that's the biggest part

00:13:38.043 --> 00:13:39.705
of what makes a difference

00:13:39.725 --> 00:13:41.846
between a prototype and a product.

00:13:42.245 --> 00:13:43.606
One thing I felt like I

00:13:43.667 --> 00:13:45.388
learned and still to be

00:13:45.427 --> 00:13:46.948
determined if this is a

00:13:47.009 --> 00:13:48.970
lesson learned was, you know,

00:13:49.009 --> 00:13:49.870
I think sometimes you

00:13:49.909 --> 00:13:52.311
romanticize the product

00:13:52.350 --> 00:13:52.991
you're developing.

00:13:53.812 --> 00:13:55.774
and you know you maybe have

00:13:55.833 --> 00:13:56.913
something that really

00:13:56.953 --> 00:13:57.794
you're going to sell it for

00:13:57.914 --> 00:13:59.416
way more but people are

00:13:59.436 --> 00:14:00.417
going to buy it because you

00:14:00.437 --> 00:14:01.457
know that whole sort of

00:14:01.518 --> 00:14:03.058
thing sure because you've

00:14:03.099 --> 00:14:04.279
built it and you've really

00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:06.100
identified this need I

00:14:06.160 --> 00:14:07.282
didn't want to make that

00:14:07.322 --> 00:14:08.923
mistake having said that we

00:14:08.962 --> 00:14:10.104
still have a premium price

00:14:10.163 --> 00:14:12.025
product right but I didn't

00:14:12.066 --> 00:14:13.187
want to just kind of

00:14:13.486 --> 00:14:15.388
romanticize that and that

00:14:15.567 --> 00:14:17.710
took a lot to to kind of

00:14:18.129 --> 00:14:19.971
validate that market um

00:14:20.731 --> 00:14:22.014
on a market research side so

00:14:22.073 --> 00:14:23.195
literally just sort of like

00:14:23.235 --> 00:14:24.076
what are these things sell

00:14:24.115 --> 00:14:25.076
for what are trends

00:14:25.136 --> 00:14:26.099
happening in the market

00:14:26.139 --> 00:14:27.320
that maybe you know are

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:28.441
prices going up or prices

00:14:28.461 --> 00:14:30.783
going down um for the ones

00:14:30.803 --> 00:14:32.005
that prices are higher what

00:14:32.066 --> 00:14:33.727
are what do they have that

00:14:33.788 --> 00:14:34.769
make them better or

00:14:34.828 --> 00:14:36.910
different um what's going

00:14:36.932 --> 00:14:38.173
on in the market in general

00:14:38.212 --> 00:14:39.374
is it growing is it shrinking

00:14:40.455 --> 00:14:41.576
And then literally,

00:14:41.916 --> 00:14:45.418
you pair that with two other factors,

00:14:45.498 --> 00:14:45.879
I think.

00:14:46.119 --> 00:14:47.940
You pair that with the value

00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:49.160
props that you're going to

00:14:49.221 --> 00:14:50.240
put into the product,

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.863
the benefits that it's going to have.

00:14:52.883 --> 00:14:53.562
And you have to validate

00:14:53.602 --> 00:14:56.784
those in a very just user-centric way,

00:14:57.225 --> 00:14:57.985
who are the stakeholders,

00:14:58.005 --> 00:14:58.625
who are the people that are

00:14:58.645 --> 00:14:59.126
going to use it,

00:14:59.206 --> 00:15:00.126
be adjacent to the people

00:15:00.147 --> 00:15:00.768
that are going to use it,

00:15:00.868 --> 00:15:01.727
and maybe have value.

00:15:01.748 --> 00:15:02.649
Maybe they have to carry it

00:15:02.668 --> 00:15:04.590
and load it as a loved one or a PT.

00:15:06.913 --> 00:15:08.154
And then the last part is

00:15:08.434 --> 00:15:09.936
literally what can you make

00:15:09.995 --> 00:15:11.937
it for and sell it for to

00:15:11.976 --> 00:15:13.677
deliver on those benefits

00:15:14.197 --> 00:15:15.639
and then hit into the

00:15:15.678 --> 00:15:17.019
market that you are now

00:15:17.078 --> 00:15:18.080
targeting or the segment of

00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:19.159
the market that you're targeting.

00:15:19.841 --> 00:15:22.381
And if all of that sounds really complex,

00:15:22.822 --> 00:15:24.383
it's because it is, and it was,

00:15:24.503 --> 00:15:25.023
and it still is.

00:15:26.323 --> 00:15:28.424
And that was one of the

00:15:28.445 --> 00:15:29.485
biggest parts of the challenge.

00:15:29.546 --> 00:15:30.826
We started at a lower price

00:15:30.885 --> 00:15:32.567
point than we wound up landing on,

00:15:32.866 --> 00:15:33.827
but we also felt like we

00:15:33.847 --> 00:15:35.389
were adding benefits along the way.

00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:39.470
And the market we have found,

00:15:39.571 --> 00:15:40.150
and I've been even

00:15:40.211 --> 00:15:42.892
surprised as a PT that we

00:15:42.932 --> 00:15:44.212
are not the most expensive

00:15:44.692 --> 00:15:46.133
player in the game at a

00:15:46.153 --> 00:15:47.073
premium price point.

00:15:47.114 --> 00:15:48.014
There are products,

00:15:48.033 --> 00:15:48.875
they're really going in

00:15:48.914 --> 00:15:50.174
that direction because the

00:15:50.335 --> 00:15:53.297
aging population and those

00:15:53.336 --> 00:15:54.236
caring for them.

00:15:54.677 --> 00:15:56.017
are looking for quality and

00:15:56.097 --> 00:15:57.437
function rather than what

00:15:57.577 --> 00:15:58.658
sometimes we think of as

00:15:58.697 --> 00:16:00.399
walkers is just go on Amazon,

00:16:00.458 --> 00:16:01.119
get whatever,

00:16:01.479 --> 00:16:03.000
but there's a diminishing return to that.

00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:04.179
If they're not hitting on

00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.600
your quality of life or if

00:16:05.659 --> 00:16:07.181
their breaks are busting in

00:16:07.260 --> 00:16:08.640
a year because they're just

00:16:08.701 --> 00:16:09.902
not high quality.

00:16:09.922 --> 00:16:10.162
Yeah.

00:16:11.881 --> 00:16:12.501
So we,

00:16:12.601 --> 00:16:14.123
we kind of landed on a price point

00:16:14.143 --> 00:16:15.543
that's higher, but not so high.

00:16:15.582 --> 00:16:16.504
And we were able to marry

00:16:16.524 --> 00:16:17.964
that with just literally

00:16:18.004 --> 00:16:20.004
what we could produce and

00:16:20.024 --> 00:16:21.184
the cost we could produce of that.

00:16:21.638 --> 00:16:22.698
Yeah,

00:16:22.719 --> 00:16:25.743
I want people to envision that seesaw.

00:16:25.763 --> 00:16:27.625
And I talk about this a lot in our podcast,

00:16:27.645 --> 00:16:29.707
which is we focus a lot on

00:16:29.788 --> 00:16:32.751
the price side of that seesaw, right?

00:16:32.851 --> 00:16:34.433
Well, I could just discount it.

00:16:34.494 --> 00:16:35.755
Maybe I'll give a promo code.

00:16:36.076 --> 00:16:36.996
It's really easy.

00:16:38.379 --> 00:16:39.681
and a little bit lazy to

00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:41.682
just focus on that price side.

00:16:42.222 --> 00:16:43.825
But it sounds like you and

00:16:43.845 --> 00:16:44.566
the rest of the people in

00:16:44.586 --> 00:16:45.767
this series focused on the

00:16:45.947 --> 00:16:47.068
other side of that seesaw,

00:16:47.089 --> 00:16:48.730
which is how do I overload

00:16:48.791 --> 00:16:50.572
on value so that when you

00:16:50.633 --> 00:16:52.835
look at the price side, you say, well,

00:16:52.875 --> 00:16:53.216
you've,

00:16:53.395 --> 00:16:54.517
You've given me so much.

00:16:54.557 --> 00:16:56.096
This still feels like a steal.

00:16:56.398 --> 00:16:57.878
That doesn't mean half your

00:16:57.918 --> 00:16:59.698
cost to make it feel twice as good.

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.000
You could actually just add

00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:02.821
so much value that the cost,

00:17:02.841 --> 00:17:03.902
the price never moves,

00:17:03.922 --> 00:17:05.462
but it feels like it's smaller.

00:17:05.883 --> 00:17:07.763
You know, this is, you know,

00:17:07.784 --> 00:17:08.824
your product Nuvio is

00:17:08.864 --> 00:17:10.404
something I never really

00:17:10.444 --> 00:17:12.326
needed until the last two years,

00:17:12.365 --> 00:17:13.646
until my parents both at

00:17:13.686 --> 00:17:15.028
some point needed something like this.

00:17:15.907 --> 00:17:16.729
I had no idea.

00:17:16.808 --> 00:17:18.330
And I had handed people

00:17:18.371 --> 00:17:19.291
walkers as a physical

00:17:19.333 --> 00:17:20.614
therapist and used them in

00:17:20.653 --> 00:17:21.414
different settings.

00:17:21.836 --> 00:17:23.357
I had no idea what they cost, right?

00:17:23.377 --> 00:17:24.179
Someone just either brought

00:17:24.219 --> 00:17:25.140
it to me or they went out

00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:26.000
and got themselves.

00:17:26.401 --> 00:17:27.442
But then you start to see

00:17:27.482 --> 00:17:28.263
all the different places

00:17:28.284 --> 00:17:30.105
these things need to go.

00:17:30.125 --> 00:17:30.646
The things they...

00:17:31.848 --> 00:17:32.950
should be able to do but

00:17:32.990 --> 00:17:34.049
can't and you didn't think

00:17:34.089 --> 00:17:36.191
about that um so so talk

00:17:36.211 --> 00:17:37.152
about some of the specific

00:17:37.192 --> 00:17:38.112
features what were some of

00:17:38.132 --> 00:17:38.912
the things that you said

00:17:39.012 --> 00:17:40.772
hey we realized this is a

00:17:40.833 --> 00:17:42.693
problem and we could add to

00:17:42.713 --> 00:17:43.694
this and I'll show a little

00:17:43.974 --> 00:17:44.755
I'll show a little graphic

00:17:44.795 --> 00:17:45.576
I think I want to give a

00:17:45.655 --> 00:17:46.915
nod to your website which

00:17:46.996 --> 00:17:49.897
is um nuviomobility.com

00:17:50.198 --> 00:17:51.578
just a really well done

00:17:51.919 --> 00:17:53.980
vignette as you open up the website that

00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:56.622
This is not a product demo website.

00:17:56.942 --> 00:17:59.384
This is a person who happens

00:17:59.423 --> 00:18:01.226
to be using this in real

00:18:01.266 --> 00:18:02.866
life demo on your website.

00:18:02.886 --> 00:18:03.867
So I think well done there.

00:18:03.907 --> 00:18:04.929
But what are some of the

00:18:04.949 --> 00:18:06.510
things that maybe someone

00:18:06.611 --> 00:18:08.112
looking at this video

00:18:08.152 --> 00:18:09.794
that's just looping isn't

00:18:09.894 --> 00:18:11.795
seeing in terms of benefit

00:18:11.835 --> 00:18:12.816
of the product that you

00:18:12.855 --> 00:18:14.557
thought of and then put into that design?

00:18:16.601 --> 00:18:17.021
Yeah, sure.

00:18:17.102 --> 00:18:20.766
So this was, you described a seesaw,

00:18:21.007 --> 00:18:22.288
which is so accurate.

00:18:23.589 --> 00:18:24.590
Seesaw on pricing,

00:18:24.611 --> 00:18:25.813
but also seesaw on the

00:18:25.853 --> 00:18:27.054
process of kind of getting

00:18:27.094 --> 00:18:28.195
to that price is what you pay,

00:18:28.256 --> 00:18:30.258
value is what you get, end point, right?

00:18:30.838 --> 00:18:31.779
And

00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:33.740
And for us,

00:18:34.362 --> 00:18:35.942
I learned as much after we

00:18:35.982 --> 00:18:37.304
started developing products

00:18:37.423 --> 00:18:38.625
in terms of the functional

00:18:38.845 --> 00:18:39.904
benefits that there were

00:18:39.925 --> 00:18:41.346
opportunities to improve on

00:18:42.446 --> 00:18:44.368
with the product development firm,

00:18:44.608 --> 00:18:46.170
because they bring a lens

00:18:46.190 --> 00:18:47.330
that's an engineering lens

00:18:47.371 --> 00:18:48.832
and that's a very neutral lens.

00:18:49.372 --> 00:18:50.913
And they just go do almost

00:18:50.972 --> 00:18:52.594
third party market research.

00:18:52.794 --> 00:18:54.555
And in some ways that would tie.

00:18:55.215 --> 00:18:55.895
And in other ways,

00:18:56.016 --> 00:18:56.817
I would maybe something

00:18:56.856 --> 00:18:59.278
that I was diluting the value of,

00:18:59.318 --> 00:19:00.680
but wasn't thinking was a big deal.

00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:02.560
they were hearing a ton of

00:19:02.601 --> 00:19:03.540
and they were coming back

00:19:04.061 --> 00:19:05.363
and then what we tried to

00:19:05.403 --> 00:19:06.563
do was we tried to really

00:19:06.643 --> 00:19:09.005
take like I taught them the

00:19:09.184 --> 00:19:11.086
cms mobility measure like I

00:19:11.105 --> 00:19:12.346
taught them how we grade

00:19:12.406 --> 00:19:13.708
functional status on the

00:19:13.728 --> 00:19:15.088
clinical side and then I

00:19:15.108 --> 00:19:16.430
was like I was like see

00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:17.569
what you can do with this

00:19:18.030 --> 00:19:19.592
and we landed on three core

00:19:20.011 --> 00:19:21.393
we call advanced benefits

00:19:21.813 --> 00:19:22.773
one is the stand assist

00:19:25.290 --> 00:19:26.172
which is a lower set of

00:19:26.211 --> 00:19:27.914
handrails and also a very

00:19:28.015 --> 00:19:29.557
stable base that comes from

00:19:29.596 --> 00:19:30.739
the re-engineering of it.

00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:32.781
Rollators and walkers,

00:19:32.801 --> 00:19:33.903
it's not so simple to just

00:19:34.003 --> 00:19:35.086
add a lower handrail and

00:19:35.105 --> 00:19:36.989
then for it to be useful for the patient.

00:19:37.449 --> 00:19:39.172
So we had to create space in the center.

00:19:40.232 --> 00:19:42.713
The other is the user from

00:19:42.733 --> 00:19:43.755
standing in the center,

00:19:44.134 --> 00:19:45.695
you have about half the footprint,

00:19:46.036 --> 00:19:47.817
which is really valuable to

00:19:48.017 --> 00:19:50.557
the tight spaces of a home or hospital.

00:19:50.657 --> 00:19:52.117
We were hearing that a lot.

00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:53.759
I just can't get this clunky

00:19:53.778 --> 00:19:54.839
thing that when you stand

00:19:54.859 --> 00:19:57.240
behind a rollator,

00:19:57.560 --> 00:19:58.820
it's like a shopping cart.

00:19:59.041 --> 00:20:01.122
And I'm all sorts of,

00:20:01.502 --> 00:20:03.002
how do I turn around in my

00:20:03.202 --> 00:20:04.963
narrow apartment hallway sort of thing?

00:20:05.403 --> 00:20:06.724
But then when I approach a

00:20:06.765 --> 00:20:08.605
countertop or a cabinet or a door,

00:20:09.286 --> 00:20:10.346
all these sorts of reaching

00:20:10.386 --> 00:20:12.468
tasks I am a foot and a

00:20:12.508 --> 00:20:14.868
half away and I am someone

00:20:14.909 --> 00:20:16.509
with low balance who should

00:20:16.528 --> 00:20:17.670
be reaching outside of that

00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:19.131
base support less than

00:20:19.211 --> 00:20:20.990
someone without a walker

00:20:21.030 --> 00:20:22.692
level need right and so

00:20:22.771 --> 00:20:24.692
getting you centered um we

00:20:24.712 --> 00:20:25.993
were able to gain huge

00:20:26.013 --> 00:20:27.554
benefits there which was

00:20:27.815 --> 00:20:28.674
easier said than done

00:20:28.734 --> 00:20:30.496
especially on a product

00:20:30.556 --> 00:20:32.436
level like a sort of cost at the end

00:20:33.317 --> 00:20:34.877
uh end game level those are

00:20:34.897 --> 00:20:36.357
our three mobility benefits

00:20:36.397 --> 00:20:37.938
the fourth that is kind of

00:20:37.978 --> 00:20:39.419
on the side that you

00:20:39.459 --> 00:20:40.038
definitely probably

00:20:40.058 --> 00:20:41.199
wouldn't notice off of the

00:20:41.239 --> 00:20:43.480
video is um and this one

00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:46.240
surprised me a lot was um

00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:48.201
walkers and rollators when

00:20:48.221 --> 00:20:49.662
they're folded and they're collapsed

00:20:50.622 --> 00:20:53.202
they either don't stand and

00:20:53.222 --> 00:20:53.923
you have to lean them on

00:20:53.962 --> 00:20:56.044
something or if they stand,

00:20:56.104 --> 00:20:57.324
they're not very maneuverable.

00:20:57.963 --> 00:20:59.223
And that becomes a caregiver

00:20:59.263 --> 00:21:02.204
thing where even if you're

00:21:02.224 --> 00:21:03.005
going to collapse it for

00:21:03.025 --> 00:21:03.744
your loved one and then

00:21:03.785 --> 00:21:04.965
bring it around the car or

00:21:04.986 --> 00:21:06.586
you're a PT and one of

00:21:07.727 --> 00:21:10.126
those parts of the video up

00:21:10.166 --> 00:21:10.946
at the top there,

00:21:11.007 --> 00:21:12.807
you see a physical therapist kind of,

00:21:12.968 --> 00:21:13.228
you know,

00:21:13.248 --> 00:21:14.728
just bringing it over to his

00:21:14.768 --> 00:21:16.848
patient in a really smooth way.

00:21:18.791 --> 00:21:19.652
We were hearing that.

00:21:19.872 --> 00:21:20.412
We were like,

00:21:21.272 --> 00:21:22.472
this would be really nice if

00:21:22.532 --> 00:21:23.492
I didn't feel like I needed

00:21:23.512 --> 00:21:24.433
to pick it up to bring it

00:21:24.473 --> 00:21:25.713
to my patient or pick it up

00:21:25.753 --> 00:21:26.634
to bring it around the side

00:21:26.673 --> 00:21:28.095
of the car or wherever I'm bringing it,

00:21:28.454 --> 00:21:29.714
or I didn't feel like I need to lean it.

00:21:30.494 --> 00:21:32.836
And so we made a design when it folds,

00:21:33.316 --> 00:21:35.317
it stands really nicely, really easily.

00:21:36.297 --> 00:21:37.616
But then it has a three

00:21:37.656 --> 00:21:39.678
sixty zero degree turning radius.

00:21:39.698 --> 00:21:41.018
So then it's just very free

00:21:41.117 --> 00:21:42.417
maneuvering for whoever.

00:21:42.458 --> 00:21:43.679
But that's more for the caregiver.

00:21:43.778 --> 00:21:44.878
And that was a curveball for me.

00:21:44.898 --> 00:21:46.239
That was not something I was thinking of.

00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:47.480
That was what like the developers

00:21:48.140 --> 00:21:48.960
They went and did their

00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:50.221
research and they came back

00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:51.540
and they were like,

00:21:51.560 --> 00:21:53.240
we're hearing a lot about this, dude.

00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:53.740
Do you have it?

00:21:53.941 --> 00:21:55.342
And I was like, that makes sense.

00:21:56.981 --> 00:21:58.182
So that was an interesting one.

00:21:58.241 --> 00:22:04.384
Oh, I can't hear you.

00:22:04.403 --> 00:22:05.243
I wanted to pause there.

00:22:05.604 --> 00:22:06.704
And this is the things that

00:22:06.765 --> 00:22:08.224
I heard there and that

00:22:08.384 --> 00:22:11.205
don't always get enough sunlight,

00:22:11.385 --> 00:22:13.905
which is we often minimize

00:22:13.945 --> 00:22:16.007
the things that we're good at or we know.

00:22:17.074 --> 00:22:18.914
and over-inflate the things

00:22:18.934 --> 00:22:20.195
that other people are good

00:22:20.276 --> 00:22:22.096
at or they know that we don't.

00:22:22.277 --> 00:22:22.957
For example,

00:22:22.977 --> 00:22:24.157
if you told me I had to write

00:22:24.718 --> 00:22:26.659
some sort of legal document, I would say,

00:22:26.798 --> 00:22:27.479
absolutely not.

00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:28.740
I should be nowhere near that.

00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:30.180
That's a lawyer, right?

00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:31.240
That's in their domain.

00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:32.000
That's here.

00:22:32.342 --> 00:22:33.902
But the things that a PT knows, well,

00:22:33.922 --> 00:22:34.462
that's simple.

00:22:34.502 --> 00:22:35.462
Everybody that I know knows

00:22:35.482 --> 00:22:37.084
that because I'm surrounded by PTs.

00:22:37.403 --> 00:22:38.984
And understand that it's not...

00:22:39.484 --> 00:22:41.166
It's not one is more

00:22:41.227 --> 00:22:42.367
valuable than the other.

00:22:42.887 --> 00:22:45.671
It's where can you bring

00:22:45.711 --> 00:22:47.653
that information when it's most needed?

00:22:47.992 --> 00:22:49.273
But we're so comfortable with it.

00:22:49.555 --> 00:22:50.315
It's like an old pair of

00:22:50.355 --> 00:22:51.717
jeans for us that we just, ah,

00:22:51.757 --> 00:22:52.617
it's not that valuable.

00:22:52.678 --> 00:22:53.719
It's been around forever.

00:22:54.239 --> 00:22:55.180
So that was really cool that

00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:56.500
you sort of highlighted

00:22:57.539 --> 00:22:59.201
that when the designers brought it back,

00:22:59.221 --> 00:23:00.041
they were able to see

00:23:00.082 --> 00:23:01.502
things that you hadn't even

00:23:01.563 --> 00:23:02.743
spotted because you've been looking,

00:23:02.903 --> 00:23:03.104
you know,

00:23:03.124 --> 00:23:05.205
maybe from one lens or one direction.

00:23:05.665 --> 00:23:07.347
And it actually had way more

00:23:07.428 --> 00:23:10.009
value that when you ask the end user,

00:23:10.049 --> 00:23:11.111
a caregiver, hey,

00:23:11.151 --> 00:23:12.711
if this thing could do that, gosh,

00:23:12.811 --> 00:23:13.853
I would pay a lot more

00:23:13.893 --> 00:23:15.795
because if it's this much

00:23:15.934 --> 00:23:18.215
easier to use times, ten thousand uses,

00:23:18.336 --> 00:23:20.417
gosh, take then you get that great gift,

00:23:20.498 --> 00:23:20.758
right?

00:23:20.858 --> 00:23:21.538
Take my money.

00:23:21.578 --> 00:23:23.540
Like, where do I sign up for this thing?

00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:24.181
And that's when, you know,

00:23:24.201 --> 00:23:24.821
you've really got

00:23:25.602 --> 00:23:28.163
a good, a good balance or, or maybe, uh,

00:23:28.182 --> 00:23:30.044
uh, that seesaw, um,

00:23:30.144 --> 00:23:31.204
leaning in your favor of

00:23:31.345 --> 00:23:32.525
value over price.

00:23:32.565 --> 00:23:33.346
I love how you said that

00:23:33.645 --> 00:23:34.806
price is what you pay values,

00:23:34.846 --> 00:23:36.186
what you get.

00:23:36.207 --> 00:23:37.287
The other thing I like to

00:23:37.346 --> 00:23:39.367
hammer on people with is, um,

00:23:39.847 --> 00:23:42.769
you determine the cost as a company or,

00:23:43.049 --> 00:23:44.049
or, or a PT.

00:23:44.069 --> 00:23:44.609
That's the cost.

00:23:44.651 --> 00:23:45.891
This is how much my time costs.

00:23:45.911 --> 00:23:46.711
This is what product costs.

00:23:47.071 --> 00:23:48.852
The audience determines the value.

00:23:48.912 --> 00:23:49.813
They will either say, Oh,

00:23:49.853 --> 00:23:50.573
that's not worth it.

00:23:50.613 --> 00:23:51.773
Or, Oh my gosh, that's so much.

00:23:51.854 --> 00:23:52.594
I have to have that.

00:23:53.015 --> 00:23:54.256
Keep that in mind, right?

00:23:54.296 --> 00:23:57.497
So that concept is terribly valuable.

00:23:57.897 --> 00:23:59.178
It's you determining the cost.

00:23:59.317 --> 00:24:00.659
They, everybody else,

00:24:00.679 --> 00:24:02.279
determines the value.

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.580
So let's talk about impact, right?

00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:05.021
Like,

00:24:05.362 --> 00:24:07.843
how has this thing begun to impact

00:24:08.103 --> 00:24:08.502
people?

00:24:08.644 --> 00:24:10.163
I mean, this started with people.

00:24:10.403 --> 00:24:11.605
It might have started with a walker,

00:24:11.724 --> 00:24:12.385
but it couldn't have.

00:24:12.425 --> 00:24:13.026
It had to start with the

00:24:13.046 --> 00:24:14.767
people in and around that

00:24:14.787 --> 00:24:15.426
were going to use that

00:24:15.446 --> 00:24:16.288
walker or the caregivers

00:24:16.307 --> 00:24:18.028
that were going to be transporting it.

00:24:18.828 --> 00:24:19.851
What is some of the impact

00:24:19.871 --> 00:24:21.173
that you've started to see

00:24:21.212 --> 00:24:22.575
and hear and feel and how

00:24:22.595 --> 00:24:24.238
has it been received from other PTs?

00:24:24.278 --> 00:24:25.420
I'm kind of curious about that too.

00:24:27.557 --> 00:24:27.757
Yeah,

00:24:28.037 --> 00:24:31.598
so on the end user side versus kind

00:24:31.618 --> 00:24:33.400
of the PT side, on the end user side,

00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:37.000
it's been really exciting.

00:24:38.682 --> 00:24:40.803
And I think what I've found

00:24:40.863 --> 00:24:42.723
interesting is like,

00:24:42.763 --> 00:24:44.124
we like to think we sort of

00:24:44.183 --> 00:24:45.964
created a better tool that

00:24:46.765 --> 00:24:48.945
is gonna be different for a lot of people,

00:24:49.086 --> 00:24:49.306
right?

00:24:49.365 --> 00:24:51.047
You may not really need the

00:24:51.067 --> 00:24:52.488
benefit of the sit to stand,

00:24:53.666 --> 00:24:54.847
sort of feature side of it.

00:24:56.308 --> 00:24:59.471
But you might feel like you

00:24:59.510 --> 00:25:00.770
want to buy it just because

00:25:00.951 --> 00:25:02.092
it is so much easier for

00:25:02.112 --> 00:25:03.393
you to do your daily tasks

00:25:03.472 --> 00:25:05.074
when you are four times

00:25:05.114 --> 00:25:06.795
closer to your countertop.

00:25:06.875 --> 00:25:08.955
I've developed a phrase,

00:25:09.616 --> 00:25:10.737
what might be marginal for

00:25:10.777 --> 00:25:11.897
you and I is not marginal

00:25:11.917 --> 00:25:13.179
for people who have a

00:25:13.239 --> 00:25:14.199
functional limitation.

00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:18.682
And that has been learned from end users.

00:25:19.061 --> 00:25:19.863
And I think we...

00:25:20.722 --> 00:25:22.763
did a really good job trying

00:25:22.804 --> 00:25:25.704
to stick to that, trying not to.

00:25:25.845 --> 00:25:27.846
And I think it's really easy, maybe.

00:25:28.385 --> 00:25:30.426
And it's maybe the reason that devices

00:25:32.474 --> 00:25:33.135
Our competitors,

00:25:33.175 --> 00:25:33.836
really most of the stuff

00:25:33.875 --> 00:25:34.797
you'd find on Amazon is

00:25:34.836 --> 00:25:36.778
rooted in nineteen seventies engineering.

00:25:36.958 --> 00:25:37.739
It just, you know,

00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:38.940
there's been upgrades and

00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.461
there just hasn't been much of a change.

00:25:41.082 --> 00:25:42.142
And I do think there's a

00:25:42.201 --> 00:25:43.563
marginalization of the

00:25:43.643 --> 00:25:45.204
value of those changes or

00:25:45.224 --> 00:25:46.865
the potential value of those changes,

00:25:46.945 --> 00:25:47.586
because maybe you're

00:25:47.605 --> 00:25:48.567
framing it from an able

00:25:48.606 --> 00:25:50.028
bodied perspective and

00:25:50.048 --> 00:25:51.288
you're framing it not from

00:25:51.409 --> 00:25:53.111
a I've never really just

00:25:53.151 --> 00:25:54.231
like had every moment of my

00:25:54.271 --> 00:25:55.752
day impacted by a

00:25:55.772 --> 00:25:56.913
disability sort of thing.

00:25:58.394 --> 00:25:59.717
And it's been really

00:26:00.938 --> 00:26:01.838
validating for me

00:26:01.898 --> 00:26:03.882
personally to have that

00:26:03.922 --> 00:26:05.103
kind of feedback where

00:26:05.123 --> 00:26:07.105
these things that we maybe

00:26:07.144 --> 00:26:09.087
could have hedged on and just said,

00:26:09.107 --> 00:26:11.851
you know, right along the way.

00:26:12.211 --> 00:26:13.212
But we took the hard road.

00:26:14.778 --> 00:26:15.617
people are saying I would

00:26:15.637 --> 00:26:16.858
buy it just for this.

00:26:17.098 --> 00:26:17.459
I don't need,

00:26:17.598 --> 00:26:18.920
maybe I don't need the stand assist,

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.700
but my God,

00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:20.799
you're just making my day so

00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:22.340
much easier in the, in these other ways.

00:26:22.520 --> 00:26:23.381
Or on the other side of it,

00:26:23.862 --> 00:26:25.261
I'd buy it just for the stand assist.

00:26:25.442 --> 00:26:26.502
I don't really need these other things,

00:26:26.563 --> 00:26:28.143
but Oh my God, this, this is,

00:26:28.323 --> 00:26:29.223
this is my pain point.

00:26:29.523 --> 00:26:29.743
Yeah.

00:26:30.084 --> 00:26:30.183
Um,

00:26:31.493 --> 00:26:32.494
One of the things we did

00:26:32.535 --> 00:26:33.895
during prototype testing

00:26:34.656 --> 00:26:35.356
that I think was a little

00:26:35.397 --> 00:26:37.980
different was I tried to be

00:26:38.420 --> 00:26:39.540
an unbiased PT.

00:26:41.001 --> 00:26:42.884
And what we did was we

00:26:42.923 --> 00:26:44.125
measured them functionally.

00:26:44.846 --> 00:26:46.166
We were totally hands off.

00:26:46.567 --> 00:26:48.308
Let me see what you do with

00:26:48.328 --> 00:26:49.910
your Walker that you're using right now.

00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:50.891
It was all Walker users.

00:26:51.932 --> 00:26:52.893
And then I'm going to give you this,

00:26:52.913 --> 00:26:54.114
and let me see what you do with this.

00:26:54.153 --> 00:26:55.134
But it wasn't just like a...

00:26:56.476 --> 00:26:59.218
uh it was it was very

00:26:59.238 --> 00:27:00.318
objective it wasn't sort of

00:27:00.338 --> 00:27:01.439
the subjective how can you

00:27:01.459 --> 00:27:02.140
move and everything like

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.040
that it was both um but we

00:27:04.161 --> 00:27:04.862
we took them through the

00:27:04.902 --> 00:27:07.303
mobility measures um and

00:27:07.703 --> 00:27:08.263
one of the things I've

00:27:08.284 --> 00:27:09.325
learned more I think as a

00:27:09.365 --> 00:27:12.146
pt in this process is how impactful

00:27:13.321 --> 00:27:15.162
small changes on the

00:27:15.201 --> 00:27:17.042
mobility measure are on a

00:27:17.123 --> 00:27:18.823
data-driven scale to

00:27:18.942 --> 00:27:20.282
someone's recovery process,

00:27:20.863 --> 00:27:22.163
to someone's functional

00:27:22.203 --> 00:27:23.324
ability throughout their day.

00:27:23.604 --> 00:27:24.604
It's almost like the micro

00:27:24.624 --> 00:27:25.624
that feeds the macro.

00:27:26.884 --> 00:27:28.305
And so when you're gaining

00:27:28.724 --> 00:27:30.305
thirteen percentage points

00:27:30.505 --> 00:27:31.684
in your CMS mobility

00:27:31.724 --> 00:27:34.586
measure in just one session,

00:27:35.365 --> 00:27:36.526
just kind of switching out

00:27:36.546 --> 00:27:38.266
your tool that helps you move,

00:27:39.446 --> 00:27:40.826
you're going to hear from the end user

00:27:41.989 --> 00:27:43.230
I have I have less pain.

00:27:43.269 --> 00:27:44.270
I'm walking twice as far.

00:27:44.290 --> 00:27:45.031
You're going to hear all the

00:27:45.051 --> 00:27:46.452
great subjective stuff from

00:27:47.013 --> 00:27:47.894
the sort of patient.

00:27:48.174 --> 00:27:49.096
But then you're able to look

00:27:49.135 --> 00:27:51.076
at that and say, oh, shit,

00:27:51.096 --> 00:27:52.157
thirteen percentage points

00:27:52.178 --> 00:27:53.038
on a mobility measure that

00:27:53.078 --> 00:27:54.059
typically takes a couple of

00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:55.320
weeks of rehab

00:27:55.340 --> 00:27:57.202
hospitalization like they

00:27:57.242 --> 00:27:58.503
didn't need to stay that

00:27:58.564 --> 00:27:59.444
extra couple of weeks,

00:27:59.525 --> 00:28:01.146
maybe right in a certain case.

00:28:03.003 --> 00:28:04.044
And that's been incredibly

00:28:04.084 --> 00:28:05.724
validating because I do

00:28:05.765 --> 00:28:06.806
think I wanted to help

00:28:07.326 --> 00:28:08.405
clinicians as much as I

00:28:08.445 --> 00:28:11.007
wanted to help patients at

00:28:11.047 --> 00:28:11.688
the end of the day,

00:28:11.728 --> 00:28:12.407
because there's so much

00:28:12.548 --> 00:28:14.469
overlap when it comes to assisted needs.

00:28:14.548 --> 00:28:16.609
There's so many stakeholders.

00:28:17.069 --> 00:28:18.029
That was part of what I felt

00:28:18.049 --> 00:28:18.670
like was such a big

00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:20.411
opportunity is people with

00:28:20.431 --> 00:28:21.352
functional limitations

00:28:21.451 --> 00:28:22.551
often have a big network

00:28:22.571 --> 00:28:24.792
effect that you can support

00:28:24.873 --> 00:28:26.673
in a feedback loop kind of way.

00:28:27.953 --> 00:28:29.115
And then on the PT side,

00:28:30.474 --> 00:28:32.317
We're very excited to soon

00:28:32.356 --> 00:28:34.857
announce that we just

00:28:34.897 --> 00:28:35.898
partnered with a really

00:28:35.939 --> 00:28:39.141
large rehab supplier as we launch.

00:28:39.922 --> 00:28:40.662
And we did a lot of

00:28:40.701 --> 00:28:42.923
validation into rehab

00:28:42.943 --> 00:28:45.065
hospitals and clinics with them,

00:28:45.305 --> 00:28:47.386
with their sales reps over the summer,

00:28:47.406 --> 00:28:48.747
and the feedback was phenomenal.

00:28:49.708 --> 00:28:52.450
And I can't name them quite yet,

00:28:52.630 --> 00:28:54.631
but we're super pumped about that.

00:28:54.911 --> 00:28:55.991
And so we've kind of gotten

00:28:56.352 --> 00:28:58.233
really good streams of validation

00:28:59.516 --> 00:29:01.583
from both patient side and

00:29:01.643 --> 00:29:03.448
user side and from the PT side.

00:29:09.642 --> 00:29:10.202
That's my mic.

00:29:10.522 --> 00:29:11.743
It sounds like you took this

00:29:11.804 --> 00:29:13.506
great line from the disability community,

00:29:13.546 --> 00:29:14.346
which is nothing,

00:29:14.946 --> 00:29:17.128
nothing about us without us.

00:29:17.469 --> 00:29:18.190
There's so many,

00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:19.451
there's so many stories of

00:29:19.810 --> 00:29:21.472
products that if they just,

00:29:21.752 --> 00:29:24.275
they just had one percent of the market,

00:29:24.295 --> 00:29:25.296
they'd be billionaires and

00:29:25.316 --> 00:29:26.376
they focused on that,

00:29:26.797 --> 00:29:28.459
except they never asked the

00:29:28.499 --> 00:29:29.880
person who'd be using this

00:29:29.900 --> 00:29:30.840
on a daily basis.

00:29:31.181 --> 00:29:32.563
Does this solve a problem?

00:29:33.143 --> 00:29:33.762
Yes or no.

00:29:34.364 --> 00:29:36.664
Or is the thing we think is a problem,

00:29:36.884 --> 00:29:38.025
a problem for you?

00:29:38.286 --> 00:29:39.566
And we heard that with, you know,

00:29:39.586 --> 00:29:41.106
I had a chance to sit in on

00:29:41.126 --> 00:29:42.508
an interview with Judy human,

00:29:42.548 --> 00:29:43.587
who was a great disability

00:29:43.607 --> 00:29:44.328
rights activist.

00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:45.489
And a lot of times she would

00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:46.369
say products would,

00:29:46.509 --> 00:29:47.410
would seek to solve a

00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:48.131
problem that didn't

00:29:48.191 --> 00:29:49.830
actually exist because nobody asked us.

00:29:50.192 --> 00:29:52.712
So it sounds like you took that to heart.

00:29:53.272 --> 00:29:54.713
Now let's focus on other PTs

00:29:54.733 --> 00:29:55.413
who might be sitting there

00:29:55.453 --> 00:29:56.474
nodding along and they're

00:29:56.515 --> 00:29:57.955
half hour in and they're saying, Hey,

00:29:58.016 --> 00:29:58.296
yeah,

00:29:59.155 --> 00:30:00.498
this is something I want to do.

00:30:00.538 --> 00:30:01.378
And I'm sure you get people

00:30:01.419 --> 00:30:02.359
reaching out to you about this.

00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.201
What advice would you give

00:30:03.221 --> 00:30:04.162
to other PTs or people

00:30:04.201 --> 00:30:06.443
listening who have an idea for a product,

00:30:06.884 --> 00:30:08.405
but aren't sure exactly

00:30:08.487 --> 00:30:09.688
where on that map you laid

00:30:09.748 --> 00:30:10.868
out for us to start?

00:30:11.148 --> 00:30:12.431
What lessons have you

00:30:12.471 --> 00:30:13.172
learned that could help

00:30:13.231 --> 00:30:14.032
them on their journey?

00:30:14.073 --> 00:30:15.173
How do you usually, you know,

00:30:15.493 --> 00:30:16.255
what do you usually say to

00:30:16.275 --> 00:30:16.855
people like that?

00:30:20.113 --> 00:30:21.313
I usually do try to like

00:30:21.373 --> 00:30:22.794
lead with the honest take

00:30:22.913 --> 00:30:23.894
of it's going to be more

00:30:23.913 --> 00:30:25.855
than whatever you think it's going to be.

00:30:26.875 --> 00:30:27.755
Do not think that you're

00:30:27.775 --> 00:30:29.195
going to shortcut it and you're going to,

00:30:29.455 --> 00:30:30.096
you know, whatever,

00:30:30.395 --> 00:30:31.537
whatever product you have

00:30:31.557 --> 00:30:32.477
is going to be the one that

00:30:34.116 --> 00:30:35.458
is really easy or takes no

00:30:35.498 --> 00:30:36.978
money or just kind of gets the market.

00:30:37.038 --> 00:30:37.857
And if you build it,

00:30:37.877 --> 00:30:39.138
they will come kind of thing.

00:30:39.939 --> 00:30:41.179
I usually tell them it's a,

00:30:41.378 --> 00:30:43.740
it's a big undertaking and

00:30:43.859 --> 00:30:44.880
it will be larger than

00:30:45.201 --> 00:30:46.340
whatever you think it could be.

00:30:47.034 --> 00:30:50.335
But network, talk to people.

00:30:50.734 --> 00:30:51.634
I think you put it well.

00:30:51.835 --> 00:30:52.875
Fill in the gaps.

00:30:53.135 --> 00:30:54.435
If you're really interested in it,

00:30:54.455 --> 00:30:55.655
just start by filling in

00:30:55.695 --> 00:30:57.356
the next gap and the next gap.

00:30:57.717 --> 00:30:59.718
It literally is the meme of

00:30:59.877 --> 00:31:01.038
like the train tracks,

00:31:01.218 --> 00:31:02.377
laying down a train track

00:31:02.478 --> 00:31:03.638
as the train is rolling along,

00:31:03.679 --> 00:31:05.259
just laying it down a few

00:31:05.298 --> 00:31:06.798
feet at a time and just

00:31:06.838 --> 00:31:08.160
start with that next step.

00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:09.661
and see if it leads you to

00:31:09.681 --> 00:31:11.182
the next one and the next one.

00:31:11.363 --> 00:31:12.865
And for, for some,

00:31:13.204 --> 00:31:14.046
it might be like the

00:31:14.125 --> 00:31:15.887
engineering side for others.

00:31:15.928 --> 00:31:17.869
It might be, is this truly a problem,

00:31:18.111 --> 00:31:18.310
right?

00:31:18.330 --> 00:31:19.392
Should I maybe talk to

00:31:19.432 --> 00:31:20.573
people and find out if I'm

00:31:20.634 --> 00:31:22.375
solving a problem that really exists?

00:31:23.537 --> 00:31:23.576
Um,

00:31:25.278 --> 00:31:27.460
that's kind of where I would lean towards.

00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.340
And that will kind of guide

00:31:29.361 --> 00:31:30.862
you towards the path, right?

00:31:30.961 --> 00:31:32.282
It will, like, if you do that,

00:31:32.482 --> 00:31:33.523
you will learn from that

00:31:33.564 --> 00:31:35.025
the next thing that you should focus on,

00:31:35.085 --> 00:31:36.144
and then you'll learn the next thing.

00:31:36.665 --> 00:31:37.125
Early on,

00:31:37.185 --> 00:31:39.007
a lot of what I was doing was

00:31:39.106 --> 00:31:39.948
educating myself.

00:31:40.028 --> 00:31:40.788
It really was.

00:31:40.847 --> 00:31:42.169
I would have a conversation

00:31:43.269 --> 00:31:44.790
with somebody knowledgeable

00:31:44.830 --> 00:31:45.991
about regulatory,

00:31:46.412 --> 00:31:47.333
and then I would teach

00:31:47.393 --> 00:31:48.854
myself a bunch about regulatory.

00:31:48.933 --> 00:31:49.653
I would just sort of, like,

00:31:49.693 --> 00:31:50.875
dig in the weeds about something.

00:31:50.914 --> 00:31:51.816
And then, you know,

00:31:51.836 --> 00:31:52.875
the next few weeks would be

00:31:52.936 --> 00:31:53.517
something else.

00:31:55.137 --> 00:31:55.897
And that works for me.

00:31:56.878 --> 00:31:58.219
That's great.

00:31:58.239 --> 00:32:00.381
Find out more at nuveomobility.com.

00:32:00.401 --> 00:32:01.161
And I love the mission,

00:32:01.260 --> 00:32:02.481
empowering patients and

00:32:02.622 --> 00:32:03.781
users to move their best in

00:32:03.801 --> 00:32:05.242
their daily lives while

00:32:05.262 --> 00:32:07.763
supporting data-driven connected care.

00:32:08.444 --> 00:32:09.644
Last thing we do on the show, Matt,

00:32:09.664 --> 00:32:10.766
we call it the parting shot,

00:32:11.486 --> 00:32:12.467
an opportunity for you to

00:32:12.507 --> 00:32:13.586
either repeat something or

00:32:13.606 --> 00:32:15.248
an idea or concept you've already said,

00:32:15.607 --> 00:32:16.368
or just what would you want

00:32:16.388 --> 00:32:17.148
to leave with the audience

00:32:17.189 --> 00:32:18.369
as we wrap up this episode?

00:32:22.113 --> 00:32:22.693
You know,

00:32:22.773 --> 00:32:24.596
I think one thing I like to

00:32:24.635 --> 00:32:25.636
remind people of is

00:32:26.991 --> 00:32:28.773
what I mentioned uh at some

00:32:28.814 --> 00:32:30.134
point about uh what's

00:32:30.174 --> 00:32:32.175
marginal for our patients

00:32:32.817 --> 00:32:33.738
uh or what's marginal maybe

00:32:33.778 --> 00:32:34.738
for us it's not marginal

00:32:34.758 --> 00:32:37.480
for our patients um I have

00:32:37.540 --> 00:32:40.363
been struck I think um

00:32:40.383 --> 00:32:41.503
being able to sort of like

00:32:41.564 --> 00:32:43.424
take a lens and a step back

00:32:43.746 --> 00:32:44.526
and do the product

00:32:44.546 --> 00:32:45.988
development kind of thing

00:32:46.028 --> 00:32:48.269
and not be directly in with

00:32:48.308 --> 00:32:50.671
patients realizing one of

00:32:50.691 --> 00:32:52.173
the biggest similarities

00:32:53.232 --> 00:32:54.513
across all patients I've

00:32:54.534 --> 00:32:56.056
had who've had like an assistive need

00:32:56.536 --> 00:32:57.375
whether they're like the

00:32:57.416 --> 00:32:58.497
twenty year old after a

00:32:58.537 --> 00:32:59.998
multi trauma who just

00:33:00.038 --> 00:33:00.738
suddenly really

00:33:00.778 --> 00:33:01.959
devastatingly needs a

00:33:01.999 --> 00:33:03.119
walker or something more,

00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.181
or they're the ninety five year old,

00:33:05.441 --> 00:33:06.221
you know, frail,

00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:06.902
maybe more what we

00:33:06.942 --> 00:33:08.583
typically think of is

00:33:08.603 --> 00:33:09.682
they're all really

00:33:09.742 --> 00:33:12.144
surprised by what it means

00:33:12.265 --> 00:33:13.904
to now need a walker.

00:33:14.005 --> 00:33:14.885
They're really they're

00:33:14.925 --> 00:33:16.787
totally taken aback because

00:33:16.926 --> 00:33:18.028
none of us ever think of it

00:33:18.288 --> 00:33:18.988
for ourselves.

00:33:19.048 --> 00:33:19.228
Right.

00:33:19.248 --> 00:33:20.528
Like whenever we think about walkers,

00:33:20.548 --> 00:33:22.470
we think about our parents,

00:33:22.509 --> 00:33:23.190
our grandparents.

00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:25.432
We think we do the arm's length thing.

00:33:26.372 --> 00:33:28.394
um and you know I think I

00:33:28.413 --> 00:33:29.454
would make that my takeaway

00:33:29.474 --> 00:33:30.455
just because it's been like

00:33:30.476 --> 00:33:32.137
a huge lesson even for me I

00:33:32.157 --> 00:33:33.077
think I got into this

00:33:33.117 --> 00:33:34.440
because I I wasn't doing

00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.181
the arm's length thing but

00:33:36.501 --> 00:33:38.063
um I've kind of uh I don't

00:33:38.083 --> 00:33:39.023
know maybe wrap my arms

00:33:39.124 --> 00:33:40.965
around that even more um

00:33:41.105 --> 00:33:42.166
since I've been in it

00:33:42.267 --> 00:33:43.048
because I think it's all

00:33:43.087 --> 00:33:45.789
too easy uh to to think

00:33:45.809 --> 00:33:46.891
about it that way even as

00:33:46.931 --> 00:33:48.553
pts who are often closer to

00:33:48.613 --> 00:33:49.773
it uh than others

00:33:50.474 --> 00:33:51.837
Matt Camilla for Nuvio.

00:33:51.978 --> 00:33:53.220
Appreciate you doing this

00:33:53.842 --> 00:33:55.484
and sharing the journey so far.

00:33:55.505 --> 00:33:57.568
We'll see where it goes.

00:33:57.628 --> 00:33:58.590
Yeah, thanks so much, man.

00:33:58.651 --> 00:33:59.071
This is great.