PT Breakfast Club 10/14

WEBVTT

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Dave, I am loving that shirt.

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It's so silky and smooth.

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Got to dress up sometimes.

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All right.

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So guys, welcome back.

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Is it Tuesday?

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I think it's Tuesday morning,

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October fourteenth.

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I pulled up some topics across chat GPT.

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And then I got a message,

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and I'm just prefacing.

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We can talk about anything you want.

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It's getting harder for growth to be

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funded by loans.

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There are a couple headlines out there

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saying that PT clinics are having a hard

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time borrowing or refinancing units.

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George Malavasic,

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hinge and sword or full on changing

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obviously the future of the profession,

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and I think it got me thinking about

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some stuff that's pretty interesting for

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what like the future patient is like.

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And then I got a message talking about

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Chick-fil-A and how a therapist was

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playing pickleball with some students that

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are in school,

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but working at Chick-fil-A and how much

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they love it and how passionate they are.

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And this therapist was talking about PT

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school and what a grind it could be

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for so many.

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It wasn't for me,

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but I know how crazy PT school can

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get for some.

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Where do you guys want to start?

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Gosh, we can do it.

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We can go into that.

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Sounds like a lot.

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Let's talk about the PT school experience.

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So so basically what and they didn't say

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I could share their name,

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so I'm not going to.

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But what this person was saying was he

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remembers, you know,

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PT school and the experience.

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Now, I'll tell you guys candidly,

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like I did not take PT school seriously.

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I already owned my business for a couple

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of years before I went to PT school.

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We had two locations.

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We just opened a third location.

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So for me, you know,

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I had been a strength coach before that.

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I had my bachelor's in kinesiology.

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There was nothing like PT school wasn't

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about learning things that I was going to

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do and maybe exploring new careers.

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I already had my career.

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Outpatient ortho, I would literally...

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leave my house on Monday morning,

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drive three hours to South Florida,

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to Miami, attend classes,

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leave either Thursday night if I could

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skip Friday classes or Friday as soon as

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classes ended.

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And, you know,

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PT school is just a barrier between me

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and a license.

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That's all it was.

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So I didn't take it too serious.

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I didn't get stressed out.

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If I got A's or B's, cool.

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I couldn't get a C or I got

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kicked out.

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That's kind of what it was for me.

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What was it like for you guys?

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Jimmy,

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you were next in line chronologically.

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I mean, for me.

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Right.

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Right.

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Right.

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Or when you graduated after me or you're

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a little bit.

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I think so.

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Yes.

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Fourteen.

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All right.

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So then I'm next.

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I don't know.

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Can I graduate in twenty eleven?

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I mean, I don't know.

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I took it seriously because I didn't have

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the whole business like you did, Tony.

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Like I didn't already have like.

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Did you go straight from high school to

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bachelor's to master's or doctorate?

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What did you do?

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yeah so from from high school i selected

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a school that had the three and three

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programs so the three-year accelerated

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undergrad and then the three-year dpt all

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the same all the same school all the

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same campus so if you did two schools

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it would be four years to get your

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bachelor's and then three years

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to go transfer somewhere else to get your

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DPT.

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So it'd be seven years.

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So it was three years total, uh,

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but partly choosing that because I was

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able to play D two baseball and get

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some baseball money.

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Um,

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and it wasn't that far away and kind

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of had all the, all the amenities of,

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uh, you know,

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sucking an eight year old into the vortex.

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So, no, I mean, I took it,

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I took it,

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as you can imagine i took it pretty

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seriously uh because it was challenging

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and like some holidays i wouldn't go home

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i'd be studying like certain you know

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easters or whatever i'd be you know

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staying home i'd be staying on campus and

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uh and studying so i took it pretty

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seriously although at this point like

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I'm barely treating and I'm trying to grow

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the practice and the business.

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So it's kind of, you know,

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a little ironic, but like, I don't know,

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like what are, what's,

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what's someone else's alternative?

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Like, of course they're,

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I think take it seriously because, uh,

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otherwise it's like, you know,

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I can give quick anonymous stories,

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but folks that like failed out of our

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school or failed out of other schools, uh,

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they're not crushing it most likely in

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life right now.

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You know, if you,

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if you pull it up their,

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their social media or, or whatever,

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you know, like their, their actual, uh,

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situation.

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So, you know, I think for me,

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which is something to, you know,

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push through just like everything else,

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whether it's training for baseball and

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sports or, you know, whatever.

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So yeah, but my program anyway, it was,

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uh, at the end of the six years,

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you would get the bachelor's and the

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doctorate at the same graduation ceremony.

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So yeah.

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Before Jimmy goes real quick,

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you brought something up like I also made

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the choice.

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I remember I applied to pretty much all

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the schools around me.

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So that was like four schools.

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But the biggest thing that was the

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decision maker was which one had the

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quickest program.

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I got into two of them.

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But for the record,

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I was missing five prereqs that I never

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took in undergrad.

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I never took any chemistry,

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never took any math.

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something else.

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I was missing a physics,

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missing a psychology.

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So there were five prereqs.

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Two schools let me in conditionally on,

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okay, you got to get the chemistry done.

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Never did it.

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But within those two schools,

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the difference was one took a summer off

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and the other one didn't.

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So I was graduating six months earlier in

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the school that didn't take the summer

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off.

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And I think the main kind of message

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in this was,

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and you guys probably know this,

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I think the culture of the programs,

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it's like,

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there's probably a work-life balance here

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that gets lost.

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I think there's too much emphasis,

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too much importance put on stuff that

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really isn't that important.

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Like,

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I go back to all of the things

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we've probably all forgotten.

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that was so stressed and so important and,

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you know,

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put so many gray hairs on some people's

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head prematurely that really now,

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like five years in, ten years in,

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twenty years in, it doesn't even matter.

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I don't even remember the stuff that I've

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forgotten.

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For the right person.

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For the right person.

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It's probably useful.

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Jimmy, what was your experience?

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Yeah.

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So, I mean,

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I went through my bachelor's and then

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worked for fifteen years and then I knew

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I was going to have to take all

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all all of the prereqs before I could

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apply for for school.

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And I was doing that while I was

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working full time.

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And then I went up,

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I think I taking my last like two

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or three.

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I like left work, you know,

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retired and then took my last two or

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three projects while I was applying and

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then went into the program full time.

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And it was three years straight up.

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So you didn't work in the program.

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You were working full-time.

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I worked on the side,

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but I didn't work full-time.

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Like doing the job that I was going

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to do, there were no PT programs.

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Actually, yeah,

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the University of Scranton.

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I don't know.

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I think I just wanted to be done

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with it.

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I didn't want to be in Northeast

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Pennsylvania anymore if I wasn't doing

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radio.

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So I just sort of left.

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Yeah.

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Very nice.

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yeah yeah i mean same thing right like

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for me it was jump in with both

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feet and be fully immersed and i was

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a college student again with all the with

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all the strengths and all those different

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thing uh stresses and different things

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that came with it definitely wasn't

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expecting that it's not like it's not like

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college was like easy the first time i

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was a communications major i loved it this

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i liked too but like it was there

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was a lot of stresses for things that

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i don't remember anymore but like yeah i

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remember professors trying to talk me off

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a ledge like i don't know why you're

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so stressed out over

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you know, getting an eighty seven.

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And I'm like, well,

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why didn't I get a ninety?

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And like, it sort of doesn't matter.

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Like, why didn't I?

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You know, like, yeah,

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I think it just comes into like social

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hierarchy.

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Like,

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how come that person was able to do

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it and I wasn't in six months?

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What if I'm not able to do that

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or what else am I?

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You know,

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so like for me that that was that

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was a struggle.

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That a lot of my classmates were like,

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Dave,

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they were they were going right through

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school where I'd taken a break and done

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something a little bit.

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not related to the material we were

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studying that particular day.

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Yeah.

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So, Tony,

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the reason to bring this up is what

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again?

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More just to understand and kind of

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discuss the culture of academics versus,

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you know,

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are we putting too much stress on DPT

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students?

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Can we make it more enjoyable?

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If we know enrollments are down,

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we know that therapists aren't getting

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paid enough,

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if we want to grow the profession still,

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Is there an opportunity here to kind of

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make the academics programs more

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enjoyable, more appealing,

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more attractive for students to come in?

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And just kind of the person who messaged

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me, I've said before, like,

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I have to actively work to kind of

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protect the passion for what I do.

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Because if I just fall into the routine,

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I'm going to get so sick of it

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and burn out.

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And I think that starts happening in

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school before you even become a therapist.

00:09:51.423 --> 00:09:53.585
therapists are getting burned out in the

00:09:53.625 --> 00:09:54.465
programs.

00:09:55.846 --> 00:09:57.326
So I just wanted a flow to buy

00:09:57.366 --> 00:09:58.607
you and hear your back story.

00:09:59.948 --> 00:10:00.349
I want to,

00:10:00.649 --> 00:10:02.030
I have a response to that,

00:10:02.071 --> 00:10:04.371
but go ahead and read out Jeremy Sutton's

00:10:04.412 --> 00:10:05.673
response here that we have on the screen.

00:10:06.313 --> 00:10:08.355
Go to measurements stress me out so much.

00:10:08.455 --> 00:10:10.115
I don't remember the last time I touched

00:10:10.135 --> 00:10:10.917
the goniometer.

00:10:12.852 --> 00:10:14.274
Yeah, I just watched a guy,

00:10:14.354 --> 00:10:15.754
I didn't share it publicly,

00:10:15.835 --> 00:10:18.235
but this would be a separate topic.

00:10:18.416 --> 00:10:20.878
He was on TikTok, amazing clinician.

00:10:21.018 --> 00:10:22.599
I would send any of my family to

00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:22.859
him,

00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.522
but he literally went through every single

00:10:26.601 --> 00:10:29.342
special test when doing like,

00:10:29.442 --> 00:10:31.043
I'm going to say an upper quarter screen

00:10:31.083 --> 00:10:31.965
or something like that.

00:10:32.518 --> 00:10:33.899
Tested every reflex,

00:10:33.958 --> 00:10:35.259
did every special test,

00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.361
looked at every like articulation and he

00:10:38.402 --> 00:10:39.261
did it quick,

00:10:39.322 --> 00:10:41.302
but air quotes quick was like twenty

00:10:41.342 --> 00:10:41.744
minutes.

00:10:42.283 --> 00:10:43.465
I was like, holy crap,

00:10:43.485 --> 00:10:45.306
why are you looking at all of this

00:10:45.346 --> 00:10:47.846
stuff for normal people?

00:10:48.268 --> 00:10:49.788
And it brings up the question,

00:10:49.808 --> 00:10:50.928
like if I go to the doctor,

00:10:50.969 --> 00:10:53.171
the doctor doesn't order every test

00:10:53.230 --> 00:10:53.910
possible.

00:10:54.751 --> 00:10:57.153
You let the condition kind of guide your

00:10:57.192 --> 00:10:58.653
evaluation and your assessment.

00:10:59.323 --> 00:11:01.725
But he basically came out because other

00:11:01.745 --> 00:11:02.946
people had said it and he was like,

00:11:03.245 --> 00:11:04.385
but you're a shitty therapist.

00:11:05.567 --> 00:11:06.807
You got to find out if it's upper

00:11:06.846 --> 00:11:07.368
motor neuron.

00:11:07.427 --> 00:11:08.607
And I had to look up what that

00:11:08.648 --> 00:11:09.668
means because I forgot.

00:11:10.528 --> 00:11:12.110
You have to do all of these things.

00:11:12.129 --> 00:11:13.129
I'm like, no, you don't.

00:11:13.230 --> 00:11:13.490
Like,

00:11:14.030 --> 00:11:16.772
let context of the situation guide your

00:11:16.812 --> 00:11:18.152
decisions down the road.

00:11:18.192 --> 00:11:20.793
We don't have to do every single thing.

00:11:21.313 --> 00:11:21.793
Go ahead, Dave.

00:11:23.333 --> 00:11:25.816
So I just saw recently a Nick Saban

00:11:25.836 --> 00:11:29.057
video where he was saying every person

00:11:29.077 --> 00:11:30.839
that gets into medical school is

00:11:30.899 --> 00:11:31.558
intelligent,

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:33.321
but not everyone makes it through.

00:11:33.941 --> 00:11:35.741
And everyone that makes it through and

00:11:35.782 --> 00:11:36.682
becomes a doctor,

00:11:37.263 --> 00:11:39.504
not everyone is a great doctor,

00:11:39.585 --> 00:11:41.725
depending on your definition of great or

00:11:41.826 --> 00:11:43.868
excellent or average or subpar and all

00:11:43.888 --> 00:11:44.107
that.

00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:46.230
with physical therapy,

00:11:46.270 --> 00:11:48.072
whether it's medical degree,

00:11:48.092 --> 00:11:49.594
physical therapy degree, nursing,

00:11:49.614 --> 00:11:49.914
whatever.

00:11:49.995 --> 00:11:51.255
I know we kind of talked about it

00:11:51.275 --> 00:11:54.639
before in the show of licensure and the

00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:56.520
hurdles and the things that are out there

00:11:56.601 --> 00:11:59.063
for multiple reasons to protect the

00:11:59.104 --> 00:11:59.464
public.

00:11:59.485 --> 00:12:02.366
But then also through our programs,

00:12:02.407 --> 00:12:04.129
it's like there has to be some amount

00:12:04.249 --> 00:12:07.673
of challenge to filter out people.

00:12:07.812 --> 00:12:08.573
Otherwise, like

00:12:10.393 --> 00:12:12.653
either either the profession or any

00:12:12.673 --> 00:12:15.534
profession gets you know flooded with a

00:12:15.575 --> 00:12:18.135
bunch of new workers that maybe are you

00:12:18.155 --> 00:12:19.716
know some of them are actually subpar or

00:12:19.895 --> 00:12:21.356
would have been inappropriate for the

00:12:21.417 --> 00:12:24.758
normal safeguards or guide rails or you

00:12:24.778 --> 00:12:30.700
know structure of what type of person or

00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:32.879
professional or skill set and or

00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:35.561
combination of all those things uh is

00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:37.642
typically going to be like the ideal

00:12:38.722 --> 00:12:40.663
worker or professional for whatever

00:12:40.724 --> 00:12:42.964
industry that might be and so I know

00:12:43.004 --> 00:12:45.044
you guys talked about it before of like

00:12:45.565 --> 00:12:48.605
the licensure now or in general for

00:12:48.785 --> 00:12:50.807
anything for you know a license or you

00:12:50.826 --> 00:12:52.886
know insurance for plumbing or for your

00:12:52.947 --> 00:12:54.687
roofer or whatever like there's some

00:12:54.707 --> 00:12:57.227
protection there and some of it was you

00:12:57.248 --> 00:12:59.428
know with the intent of also protecting

00:12:59.469 --> 00:13:01.289
the consumer or the patient in this case

00:13:02.070 --> 00:13:02.330
but

00:13:03.090 --> 00:13:06.113
my stance is that all of this schooling

00:13:06.374 --> 00:13:08.395
there has to be some challenge it needs

00:13:08.416 --> 00:13:11.818
to be hard it it it pulls out

00:13:12.058 --> 00:13:14.322
folks that have the character the work

00:13:14.381 --> 00:13:19.167
ethic the the drive the grit you know

00:13:19.187 --> 00:13:20.969
all these things that we we talk about

00:13:21.028 --> 00:13:23.530
we hear about um there has to be

00:13:23.571 --> 00:13:24.932
some challenges right so like

00:13:26.624 --> 00:13:27.825
I don't see anything wrong with it at

00:13:27.865 --> 00:13:28.065
all.

00:13:28.284 --> 00:13:30.166
And when I was going through school,

00:13:30.186 --> 00:13:32.346
like I never heard the word burnout ever.

00:13:32.988 --> 00:13:34.268
Now, after twenty eleven,

00:13:34.307 --> 00:13:36.990
I graduated twenty eleven and in twenty

00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.770
fifteen and covered in twenty nineteen and

00:13:39.811 --> 00:13:40.772
twenty twenties and all that.

00:13:40.812 --> 00:13:43.413
And somehow this word is like everyone's

00:13:43.732 --> 00:13:44.774
burnout all the time.

00:13:44.933 --> 00:13:45.914
And so I'm sure

00:13:46.908 --> 00:13:48.909
the other physical therapists that are,

00:13:49.289 --> 00:13:50.951
you know, fifty, sixty, seventy years old,

00:13:51.412 --> 00:13:53.293
I feel like they've never heard the word

00:13:53.312 --> 00:13:53.913
burnout either.

00:13:53.993 --> 00:13:56.315
And so I know the burnout thing over.

00:13:56.735 --> 00:13:57.715
We're not talking about the whole career.

00:13:57.735 --> 00:13:59.635
We're talking about like the schooling

00:13:59.655 --> 00:13:59.956
part.

00:14:01.136 --> 00:14:01.498
But anyway.

00:14:02.378 --> 00:14:03.820
Final comment on it is like there needs

00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:05.802
to be some big challenges,

00:14:05.841 --> 00:14:07.604
whether for us it was gross anatomy.

00:14:07.663 --> 00:14:07.823
Right.

00:14:07.844 --> 00:14:09.144
So you had the eight weeks of cutting

00:14:09.205 --> 00:14:10.866
open cadavers and dissecting, you know,

00:14:10.907 --> 00:14:13.669
head to toe that weeded out like twenty

00:14:13.710 --> 00:14:14.971
five percent of the class,

00:14:15.292 --> 00:14:16.753
like people that just couldn't get through

00:14:16.793 --> 00:14:16.893
it.

00:14:17.254 --> 00:14:17.894
They failed it.

00:14:18.195 --> 00:14:19.596
They had to either retake it or just

00:14:19.735 --> 00:14:20.998
leave, leave the school,

00:14:21.378 --> 00:14:23.539
go to another school or find a different.

00:14:24.621 --> 00:14:27.163
bachelors, find a different program, go,

00:14:27.222 --> 00:14:27.462
you know,

00:14:27.523 --> 00:14:29.183
study business or accounting or whatever.

00:14:30.104 --> 00:14:31.004
I think these things are great.

00:14:31.063 --> 00:14:32.105
I think these things are important.

00:14:32.264 --> 00:14:32.965
I think they're needed.

00:14:33.485 --> 00:14:37.047
And I don't see any changes, you know,

00:14:37.086 --> 00:14:38.126
with it coming forward.

00:14:39.748 --> 00:14:40.868
Yeah, I don't disagree.

00:14:41.288 --> 00:14:41.788
I can see it.

00:14:41.827 --> 00:14:42.989
But we do live in a world of

00:14:43.028 --> 00:14:44.269
participation trophies.

00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:45.889
Everyone gets a medal,

00:14:46.129 --> 00:14:47.409
everyone walks away happy,

00:14:47.791 --> 00:14:51.152
and nobody's happy.

00:14:51.172 --> 00:14:51.451
Jimmy?

00:14:52.255 --> 00:14:54.038
yeah i mean uh i don't think i

00:14:54.138 --> 00:14:56.621
used the word the phrase burnout much when

00:14:56.662 --> 00:14:58.163
i was going through undergrad or really

00:14:58.244 --> 00:14:59.806
even in work i loved what i did

00:15:00.166 --> 00:15:01.427
but i did hear it a lot and

00:15:01.467 --> 00:15:03.009
i started to experience it when i was

00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:04.552
in pt school and i was a decade

00:15:04.611 --> 00:15:07.054
older than everybody else um i don't

00:15:07.794 --> 00:15:08.796
I don't claim to be an expert on

00:15:08.855 --> 00:15:10.537
where that came from, but it was there.

00:15:11.197 --> 00:15:12.258
I don't know what if it was,

00:15:12.599 --> 00:15:13.859
was the curriculum the same?

00:15:13.899 --> 00:15:15.059
Were the things that the hoops that we

00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:16.160
were jumping through the same?

00:15:16.841 --> 00:15:19.482
Was it this cohort of people around us,

00:15:19.923 --> 00:15:20.144
right?

00:15:20.163 --> 00:15:21.644
The Stanford prison experiment.

00:15:21.705 --> 00:15:23.785
What can the people actually create the

00:15:23.826 --> 00:15:24.245
environment?

00:15:24.265 --> 00:15:26.107
Do the people become the roles where they

00:15:26.128 --> 00:15:27.087
just used to be told,

00:15:27.168 --> 00:15:28.928
being told that this is too much.

00:15:28.948 --> 00:15:29.870
And when this is too much,

00:15:30.009 --> 00:15:30.630
I'm burned out.

00:15:30.951 --> 00:15:31.811
I don't know the answer.

00:15:32.010 --> 00:15:33.211
I think it's multifactorial.

00:15:33.511 --> 00:15:35.354
I'm sure some people in academics study it

00:15:35.653 --> 00:15:37.075
because now they're seeing a problem.

00:15:37.796 --> 00:15:39.418
They're seeing one generation of PTs

00:15:39.739 --> 00:15:40.480
telling the others,

00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:42.022
don't come into this profession.

00:15:42.602 --> 00:15:43.663
School is way too hard.

00:15:43.724 --> 00:15:44.666
It stresses you out.

00:15:44.686 --> 00:15:45.466
When you get out there,

00:15:45.527 --> 00:15:47.389
the risk versus reward isn't enough.

00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:49.432
And those people aren't doing it.

00:15:49.653 --> 00:15:51.596
And the proof, that's objective, right?

00:15:51.895 --> 00:15:53.418
I don't know the reason, but...

00:15:54.298 --> 00:15:55.759
they're right because less people are

00:15:55.778 --> 00:15:57.559
applying and less people are going to PT

00:15:57.580 --> 00:15:57.879
school.

00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:59.240
So what is it?

00:16:00.721 --> 00:16:01.821
I don't know if you can tease out

00:16:02.221 --> 00:16:03.861
what those things actually are to keep

00:16:04.101 --> 00:16:06.461
keeping qualified students from applying

00:16:06.481 --> 00:16:06.883
these days.

00:16:07.023 --> 00:16:07.682
I don't know what it is.

00:16:07.702 --> 00:16:07.783
Nice.

00:16:07.802 --> 00:16:12.583
You guys want to move on?

00:16:14.184 --> 00:16:15.024
Dave, what were we talking about?

00:16:15.065 --> 00:16:16.105
We were talking about last week and we

00:16:16.125 --> 00:16:17.605
said we want to get Tony's take on

00:16:17.645 --> 00:16:19.105
the conversation we had on Thursday.

00:16:21.767 --> 00:16:24.971
There was the Jared Hall post about a

00:16:25.051 --> 00:16:26.993
physical therapist who over...

00:16:28.317 --> 00:16:30.758
over assume they they think they're

00:16:30.798 --> 00:16:33.139
treating a ton of patients but then

00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:34.679
because of canceled no shows and

00:16:34.780 --> 00:16:39.543
seasonality and scheduling and whatever uh

00:16:39.562 --> 00:16:40.683
i forget how it was phrased i think

00:16:40.703 --> 00:16:42.465
there was like a graph or something but

00:16:42.605 --> 00:16:44.365
it was from last week jared hall posted

00:16:44.946 --> 00:16:47.826
and i feel like i typically disagree with

00:16:47.868 --> 00:16:49.227
like a lot of what he posts but

00:16:49.268 --> 00:16:50.749
like this one is i'm like yeah i

00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:52.269
could get on board with that i that

00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:53.910
would make sense tony re-shared it he

00:16:54.410 --> 00:16:55.971
uh tony if you maybe want to pull

00:16:55.991 --> 00:16:57.594
up your post or if you recall your

00:16:57.653 --> 00:17:01.057
sentiment around it um i i agree because

00:17:01.096 --> 00:17:02.477
i've been in you know a couple different

00:17:02.538 --> 00:17:04.359
in-network practices that were not like

00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:06.682
crazy mills but like you know three

00:17:06.721 --> 00:17:08.864
patients an hour uh but then you get

00:17:08.903 --> 00:17:10.464
the cancels and no shows and all that

00:17:10.505 --> 00:17:13.788
so the assumption is that the physical

00:17:13.807 --> 00:17:15.209
therapist feels like they're treating

00:17:15.429 --> 00:17:16.891
twenty or thirty patients a day and then

00:17:17.330 --> 00:17:18.731
when you look at the averages it's like

00:17:18.751 --> 00:17:20.594
you know i don't know thirteen to fifteen

00:17:20.653 --> 00:17:21.355
or something a day

00:17:22.748 --> 00:17:24.410
Yeah, I replied to this.

00:17:24.529 --> 00:17:25.290
I shared it.

00:17:25.511 --> 00:17:27.334
I agree with most of Jared's posts.

00:17:27.614 --> 00:17:28.454
I love his posts.

00:17:29.941 --> 00:17:31.761
And I've talked to like we've had team

00:17:31.781 --> 00:17:33.383
meetings when we have big teams.

00:17:33.462 --> 00:17:35.202
We have team meetings when we have small

00:17:35.242 --> 00:17:35.604
teams.

00:17:35.763 --> 00:17:38.545
It's look, you guys and me included,

00:17:39.125 --> 00:17:41.145
we're going to remember the ten o'clock

00:17:41.205 --> 00:17:44.107
hour where the the, you know,

00:17:44.208 --> 00:17:46.067
nine thirty patient showed up late.

00:17:46.429 --> 00:17:48.148
The eleven o'clock patient showed up

00:17:48.249 --> 00:17:48.549
early.

00:17:48.589 --> 00:17:50.730
The ten o'clock patient showed up on time.

00:17:50.810 --> 00:17:52.672
Somebody walks in the schedule and we took

00:17:52.692 --> 00:17:54.913
them as a walk in about we're going

00:17:54.932 --> 00:17:55.772
to remember that.

00:17:56.747 --> 00:17:59.128
but we're going to forget that the one

00:17:59.169 --> 00:18:00.769
o'clock patient showed up, you know,

00:18:00.829 --> 00:18:03.652
canceled and all of these other gaps,

00:18:04.112 --> 00:18:05.292
just human nature.

00:18:05.313 --> 00:18:06.933
It's just the way our brains are wired.

00:18:06.993 --> 00:18:08.414
Like you, if you,

00:18:08.535 --> 00:18:10.196
especially if you feel stressed,

00:18:10.237 --> 00:18:12.137
this goes back to students and all that

00:18:12.157 --> 00:18:12.357
stuff.

00:18:12.377 --> 00:18:15.680
Like if you're naturally a person who gets

00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:17.642
stressed, you get a stress response.

00:18:17.662 --> 00:18:19.103
The adrenaline starts flowing.

00:18:19.123 --> 00:18:20.624
You start thinking about all these things.

00:18:21.124 --> 00:18:22.625
It's going to be even that much more

00:18:22.684 --> 00:18:23.546
impactful because,

00:18:24.153 --> 00:18:24.772
It's fine.

00:18:25.054 --> 00:18:27.835
Like I acknowledge that is a human trait.

00:18:27.855 --> 00:18:30.336
But when you're thinking about

00:18:30.415 --> 00:18:32.518
compensation, when you're thinking about,

00:18:32.617 --> 00:18:33.857
you know, expectations,

00:18:33.877 --> 00:18:35.939
when you're thinking about your reward for

00:18:35.979 --> 00:18:39.221
what you do, please just take a second,

00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:41.762
go back, look at the absolute numbers,

00:18:42.303 --> 00:18:45.444
clear your mind of the emotional

00:18:45.505 --> 00:18:46.265
experience.

00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:48.642
And just be like, oh, dude,

00:18:48.662 --> 00:18:49.862
seems like I was so busy,

00:18:49.882 --> 00:18:52.143
but I actually only generated one hundred

00:18:52.202 --> 00:18:54.824
and twenty seven units this week and I

00:18:54.844 --> 00:18:55.805
got paid for forty.

00:18:56.244 --> 00:18:58.306
Yeah.

00:18:58.405 --> 00:18:59.705
If we want to be scientists,

00:18:59.726 --> 00:19:01.227
let's look at this scientifically.

00:19:01.267 --> 00:19:02.406
Don't even count visits,

00:19:02.827 --> 00:19:03.907
because sometimes there's going to be

00:19:03.948 --> 00:19:05.749
people that have shorter visits,

00:19:06.028 --> 00:19:06.969
less units.

00:19:07.589 --> 00:19:11.050
Look at the absolute unit value produced

00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:13.571
for the number of hours worked.

00:19:14.153 --> 00:19:16.354
And I think most therapists will realize

00:19:16.413 --> 00:19:18.255
they were not as busy as they thought

00:19:18.295 --> 00:19:21.316
they were.

00:19:21.395 --> 00:19:22.916
Is there a psychological phenomenon that

00:19:22.957 --> 00:19:23.576
explains this?

00:19:23.817 --> 00:19:23.978
Like,

00:19:24.018 --> 00:19:25.718
is there some term that you guys are

00:19:26.278 --> 00:19:26.878
the know of?

00:19:28.305 --> 00:19:30.605
Because I would say for this,

00:19:30.807 --> 00:19:33.048
I would say one reason I would bet,

00:19:33.448 --> 00:19:35.128
I'm just guessing, this is an assumption.

00:19:36.329 --> 00:19:37.951
Any physical therapist that has an

00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:40.553
electronic medical record that the front

00:19:40.573 --> 00:19:41.432
desk, the admin,

00:19:41.472 --> 00:19:42.594
their booking evaluations,

00:19:42.634 --> 00:19:44.815
the booking patients onto the calendar of

00:19:44.894 --> 00:19:45.875
that physical therapist,

00:19:46.355 --> 00:19:47.636
this is where I believe this directly

00:19:47.676 --> 00:19:48.156
relates to.

00:19:48.178 --> 00:19:50.259
A physical therapist comes into work right

00:19:50.298 --> 00:19:51.859
now, eight, fifty two a.m.

00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:53.240
on a Tuesday,

00:19:53.580 --> 00:19:55.241
and they see X amount of patient visits

00:19:55.422 --> 00:19:56.603
on the calendar for that day.

00:19:57.644 --> 00:19:59.385
Now, of course, some cancel no show,

00:19:59.405 --> 00:20:02.247
get sick, flat tire, kids are sick,

00:20:02.287 --> 00:20:03.126
they can't come in,

00:20:04.106 --> 00:20:05.907
the new patient eval gets lost,

00:20:05.928 --> 00:20:07.909
they go to the wrong building, whatever,

00:20:08.249 --> 00:20:09.568
and things happen.

00:20:10.089 --> 00:20:11.089
And then at the end of the day,

00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:12.509
they actually treated less than what they

00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:14.351
saw on their electronic medical record

00:20:14.391 --> 00:20:14.730
calendar.

00:20:14.810 --> 00:20:17.112
But when they saw their calendar for that

00:20:17.172 --> 00:20:19.272
day, there must be some psychological,

00:20:21.787 --> 00:20:24.690
Something that's what they're perceiving.

00:20:25.049 --> 00:20:25.990
At the end of the day, they're like,

00:20:26.010 --> 00:20:27.451
this is all the patients I'm going to

00:20:27.491 --> 00:20:28.092
see and treat.

00:20:28.813 --> 00:20:32.316
So maybe there's some expansion of their

00:20:32.395 --> 00:20:33.415
mind of, okay,

00:20:34.416 --> 00:20:36.239
I'm treating fifteen patients today.

00:20:36.659 --> 00:20:37.599
And then at the end of the day,

00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.222
if it is only eleven patients and four

00:20:41.303 --> 00:20:42.663
cancel no-show, get sick,

00:20:42.824 --> 00:20:44.724
they don't want to come in,

00:20:44.744 --> 00:20:45.846
they drop off, whatever,

00:20:46.767 --> 00:20:48.407
that physical therapist still thinks that

00:20:48.448 --> 00:20:48.647
they

00:20:49.409 --> 00:20:51.050
Like they had already registered the

00:20:51.111 --> 00:20:52.373
fifteen visits for that day,

00:20:52.413 --> 00:20:53.374
like in the memory bank.

00:20:53.794 --> 00:20:55.717
And there was no there's no changing that

00:20:55.777 --> 00:20:57.759
registration of like, actually,

00:20:57.858 --> 00:20:58.619
let me recorrect it.

00:20:58.700 --> 00:20:59.461
Let me course correct.

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:01.663
It was actually eleven and not fifteen.

00:21:01.943 --> 00:21:03.365
That's what I bet some of this comes

00:21:03.385 --> 00:21:03.546
from.

00:21:03.666 --> 00:21:06.250
I'm curious if there's some psychological

00:21:06.750 --> 00:21:08.332
phenomenon or explanation.

00:21:09.442 --> 00:21:09.663
Yeah,

00:21:09.682 --> 00:21:10.844
the other one I can find really that

00:21:10.864 --> 00:21:12.786
came close was from Daniel Kahneman.

00:21:12.806 --> 00:21:15.227
Did you guys read Thinking Fast and Slow?

00:21:16.008 --> 00:21:17.449
That was like, that was,

00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:18.289
that was his jam.

00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:19.971
The planning fallacy,

00:21:20.010 --> 00:21:22.051
tendency for people to underestimate how

00:21:22.092 --> 00:21:25.454
much time tasks will take or overestimate

00:21:25.515 --> 00:21:27.236
how productive or busy they'll be,

00:21:27.737 --> 00:21:29.478
even when they don't have experience or

00:21:29.538 --> 00:21:30.638
data to show otherwise.

00:21:32.961 --> 00:21:34.582
So you're saying there was a dashboard at

00:21:34.602 --> 00:21:35.563
the bottom of the screen,

00:21:35.583 --> 00:21:36.463
like a scoreboard,

00:21:37.585 --> 00:21:40.106
what inning it was and how many patients

00:21:40.126 --> 00:21:40.666
they had seen.

00:21:40.787 --> 00:21:42.648
You're saying they would over,

00:21:42.788 --> 00:21:44.529
this is saying they would overestimate how

00:21:44.550 --> 00:21:46.832
many things that they had done versus how

00:21:46.852 --> 00:21:48.133
many things that had actually been

00:21:48.173 --> 00:21:48.614
completed.

00:21:50.502 --> 00:21:51.463
I think so.

00:21:51.503 --> 00:21:53.223
And there's an example like when I did

00:21:53.305 --> 00:21:55.246
one of my rotations at a hospital that

00:21:55.286 --> 00:21:56.806
was eight weeks long.

00:21:58.267 --> 00:21:59.268
You would have a you would have a

00:21:59.327 --> 00:22:00.347
schedule for that day.

00:22:00.709 --> 00:22:01.868
But then throughout the day,

00:22:01.909 --> 00:22:03.509
you would get these add ons and like

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:04.269
you would have to like,

00:22:05.050 --> 00:22:06.711
my CI would have to like call the

00:22:06.892 --> 00:22:08.272
office like the outpatient office

00:22:08.292 --> 00:22:11.094
downstairs or call some rehab manager.

00:22:11.134 --> 00:22:12.174
I don't even remember what it was.

00:22:12.734 --> 00:22:14.915
And they would ask or we would find

00:22:14.976 --> 00:22:16.096
out if there were like add ons.

00:22:16.277 --> 00:22:18.218
like new patients that like just got

00:22:18.258 --> 00:22:19.999
medically cleared for physical therapy to

00:22:20.019 --> 00:22:21.400
get out of the bed and walk and

00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:23.260
move around or whatever, and, you know,

00:22:23.300 --> 00:22:26.382
check their vital signs, whatever it is.

00:22:27.163 --> 00:22:29.963
And because those new add-ons,

00:22:30.464 --> 00:22:31.704
like the time between,

00:22:32.425 --> 00:22:34.826
like we had visited all the patients that

00:22:34.846 --> 00:22:35.846
we had to for that day.

00:22:36.167 --> 00:22:36.768
Now it's like, okay,

00:22:36.788 --> 00:22:38.088
let's check if there's any add-ons.

00:22:38.969 --> 00:22:40.049
And let's say there was like one or

00:22:40.109 --> 00:22:42.010
two other patients to be added on.

00:22:42.911 --> 00:22:44.854
The time duration between when we found

00:22:44.874 --> 00:22:46.816
out there was a new add-on patient and

00:22:46.855 --> 00:22:48.278
when we actually went to go visit them

00:22:48.317 --> 00:22:49.859
and treat them was, like, such a short,

00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:52.883
like, little time window that I bet, like,

00:22:52.923 --> 00:22:54.605
the opposite is true here, where it's,

00:22:54.625 --> 00:22:54.846
like,

00:22:55.266 --> 00:22:57.249
I treated more patients or visited more

00:22:57.288 --> 00:22:58.210
patients in the hospital,

00:22:58.549 --> 00:23:00.372
but I didn't feel like I had...

00:23:01.012 --> 00:23:02.953
because i i didn't have enough mental time

00:23:02.973 --> 00:23:04.374
to like process like i had this huge

00:23:04.394 --> 00:23:05.894
calendar and like all these patients are

00:23:05.934 --> 00:23:07.515
here but it was like less in a

00:23:07.556 --> 00:23:09.375
hospital potentially or at least my

00:23:09.395 --> 00:23:11.076
experience and then there was these

00:23:11.257 --> 00:23:13.897
add-ons but the add-ons like yeah it was

00:23:13.917 --> 00:23:15.659
kind of like uh like this this you

00:23:15.679 --> 00:23:18.019
know like this the ci's hoping there's no

00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:20.240
add-ons but like she's calling for add-ons

00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:22.480
anyway like that's just her job but we

00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:24.801
would go ask for an add-on we would

00:23:24.842 --> 00:23:26.363
see if there is we would go visit

00:23:26.403 --> 00:23:27.022
them within

00:23:28.527 --> 00:23:29.528
ten minutes, fifteen minutes,

00:23:29.548 --> 00:23:30.588
twenty minutes, something like that.

00:23:31.269 --> 00:23:33.250
And then so we would actually visit and

00:23:33.270 --> 00:23:35.291
treat more patients per day in a hospital,

00:23:35.372 --> 00:23:36.212
at least my experience,

00:23:37.013 --> 00:23:38.654
than what was originally scheduled at the

00:23:38.674 --> 00:23:39.476
top of the morning.

00:23:40.175 --> 00:23:41.798
So it's almost like the opposite.

00:23:41.817 --> 00:23:44.259
Like I maybe and that's whether it's the

00:23:44.299 --> 00:23:45.641
great hours of working, you know,

00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:47.561
eight to four or nine to five or

00:23:47.582 --> 00:23:48.982
whatever in a hospital and, you know,

00:23:49.022 --> 00:23:50.564
decent benefits from a hospital system.

00:23:51.025 --> 00:23:51.744
Maybe there's some

00:23:52.705 --> 00:23:54.627
uh truth here of like therapists in a

00:23:54.667 --> 00:23:56.750
hospital are less likely to be burnt out

00:23:56.809 --> 00:23:59.432
because the opposite is true like you have

00:23:59.452 --> 00:24:01.615
a shorter you know more concise patient

00:24:02.134 --> 00:24:03.316
census or whatever you want to call it

00:24:03.777 --> 00:24:05.657
and then more get added later but you

00:24:05.698 --> 00:24:07.319
didn't have those added on at the

00:24:07.339 --> 00:24:08.881
beginning of the day and the whole day

00:24:08.902 --> 00:24:10.903
didn't look as daunting i don't know that

00:24:10.923 --> 00:24:11.104
just

00:24:12.006 --> 00:24:13.086
possibly this,

00:24:13.527 --> 00:24:15.828
we always talk about crafting the patient

00:24:15.890 --> 00:24:16.609
experience.

00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:18.751
Like how do we make the patient feel,

00:24:19.211 --> 00:24:19.492
you know,

00:24:19.512 --> 00:24:21.795
important and listened to and heard and

00:24:21.835 --> 00:24:22.375
all this stuff.

00:24:22.895 --> 00:24:24.917
Now we're getting into how do you craft

00:24:24.938 --> 00:24:26.499
the employee experience?

00:24:26.999 --> 00:24:28.000
How do you screen?

00:24:28.300 --> 00:24:30.162
So you understand the personality of the

00:24:30.201 --> 00:24:31.163
person you're hiring.

00:24:32.084 --> 00:24:32.124
Um,

00:24:32.954 --> 00:24:34.595
you're gonna have people that crumble

00:24:35.194 --> 00:24:37.596
under the pressure of seeing a full

00:24:37.635 --> 00:24:38.036
schedule.

00:24:38.615 --> 00:24:39.556
So you're like, all right,

00:24:39.596 --> 00:24:40.935
I want this person on the team.

00:24:40.976 --> 00:24:42.616
I know they can't handle seeing a full

00:24:42.676 --> 00:24:43.037
schedule.

00:24:43.057 --> 00:24:44.817
It doesn't make them feel excited to

00:24:44.896 --> 00:24:47.136
tackle the challenge of a full schedule.

00:24:47.617 --> 00:24:50.178
So I'm gonna unload the schedule,

00:24:50.498 --> 00:24:52.778
but then gradually add people onto the

00:24:52.817 --> 00:24:54.939
schedule throughout the day as the

00:24:54.999 --> 00:24:55.838
openings allow.

00:24:55.898 --> 00:24:57.538
Like that's kind of what was happening in

00:24:57.558 --> 00:24:58.778
the hospital setting that you're

00:24:58.818 --> 00:24:59.359
describing.

00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:00.940
You walk in, you're like, oh, hey,

00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:01.500
we're done.

00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:03.021
We've got extra capacity.

00:25:03.082 --> 00:25:04.363
Let's add some on.

00:25:04.884 --> 00:25:07.528
That was maybe more tolerable than just

00:25:07.567 --> 00:25:09.410
having those people on the schedule ahead

00:25:09.450 --> 00:25:09.871
of time.

00:25:09.891 --> 00:25:11.252
Exactly.

00:25:11.313 --> 00:25:11.633
Yeah.

00:25:12.013 --> 00:25:14.297
And I know for myself, you know,

00:25:14.336 --> 00:25:15.939
like when I go out for a long

00:25:15.999 --> 00:25:16.298
run,

00:25:17.179 --> 00:25:18.299
I can't think, all right,

00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:19.800
I'm going to run six miles today because

00:25:19.820 --> 00:25:20.421
I'll never do it.

00:25:20.461 --> 00:25:21.340
I'll quit at three.

00:25:21.821 --> 00:25:22.422
But I'm like,

00:25:22.541 --> 00:25:23.923
I'm going to go out and I try

00:25:23.962 --> 00:25:27.164
to intentionally pick routes or pick

00:25:27.184 --> 00:25:29.465
directions that I'm never crossing my

00:25:29.526 --> 00:25:31.586
house because I'll stop if I cross my

00:25:31.626 --> 00:25:32.047
house.

00:25:32.647 --> 00:25:34.949
So you're playing this psychological game

00:25:34.969 --> 00:25:35.750
with yourself.

00:25:37.135 --> 00:25:38.756
And I bet there are situations where,

00:25:39.277 --> 00:25:41.176
you know, during the initial interview,

00:25:41.596 --> 00:25:44.057
if you could figure out what this person's

00:25:44.117 --> 00:25:46.698
personality is like, what they thrive on,

00:25:46.778 --> 00:25:48.778
are they the kind of person that wants

00:25:48.838 --> 00:25:51.400
the challenge of give me thirty patients

00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:52.619
today and I'm going to see them all

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.619
and they're going to be amazed and nobody

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:55.480
is going to cancel.

00:25:56.621 --> 00:25:57.780
You just got to understand those

00:25:57.840 --> 00:25:59.622
personality traits when you're bringing

00:25:59.642 --> 00:26:00.442
them on board.

00:26:01.084 --> 00:26:01.964
Because I think that's huge.

00:26:02.085 --> 00:26:02.765
I mean,

00:26:02.785 --> 00:26:04.046
I think it's human nature to be sitting

00:26:04.105 --> 00:26:05.386
there at like four o'clock and just,

00:26:06.146 --> 00:26:07.347
if anybody's going to cancel,

00:26:07.367 --> 00:26:08.608
you want it to be your four-thirty

00:26:08.628 --> 00:26:09.289
patient, right?

00:26:09.309 --> 00:26:10.851
I mean, it's not, you know,

00:26:10.911 --> 00:26:12.612
a three-thirty patient canceling is sort

00:26:12.652 --> 00:26:13.192
of a waste.

00:26:13.211 --> 00:26:14.113
It's like, what does that do?

00:26:14.333 --> 00:26:15.614
You've still got to be here, right?

00:26:15.634 --> 00:26:16.974
Well, now,

00:26:17.315 --> 00:26:18.776
this is why many practice owners,

00:26:18.836 --> 00:26:20.136
I won't mention any names because I don't

00:26:20.156 --> 00:26:21.238
have their approval to say this,

00:26:21.278 --> 00:26:23.179
but many practice owners that I know

00:26:23.898 --> 00:26:25.740
either sold their practice in the past or

00:26:25.760 --> 00:26:26.701
they still have a practice.

00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:28.903
And this is why they specifically hire

00:26:28.923 --> 00:26:29.103
people

00:26:30.208 --> 00:26:32.390
individuals who either previously were

00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:33.971
athletes high school athletes college

00:26:34.030 --> 00:26:36.492
athletes and or worked in hospitality and

00:26:36.512 --> 00:26:37.614
if they don't have one of those two

00:26:37.634 --> 00:26:39.895
things they may not hire them or they

00:26:39.935 --> 00:26:42.438
don't hire them because the person that

00:26:42.678 --> 00:26:44.420
previously went through high school sports

00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.181
or college sports there's adversity of

00:26:46.221 --> 00:26:48.303
course if you work in hospitality you're a

00:26:48.343 --> 00:26:51.945
waiter waitress you you were a bartender

00:26:51.986 --> 00:26:54.028
whatever it might be if you worked in

00:26:54.067 --> 00:26:55.088
hospitality or

00:26:56.464 --> 00:26:58.405
the service industry and or your high

00:26:58.445 --> 00:26:59.445
school or college athlete,

00:26:59.465 --> 00:27:01.787
you've gone through a lot of different

00:27:02.027 --> 00:27:02.446
adversity.

00:27:02.586 --> 00:27:03.948
I'm not saying you haven't gone through

00:27:03.988 --> 00:27:04.748
adversity elsewhere.

00:27:04.788 --> 00:27:07.028
Like Jimmy obviously had had a ton of

00:27:07.088 --> 00:27:08.808
adversity and challenges, you know,

00:27:08.868 --> 00:27:10.230
in real time on live radio.

00:27:10.309 --> 00:27:11.970
And that's like, that would be, you know,

00:27:12.029 --> 00:27:14.131
kind of like a unicorn situation where

00:27:14.411 --> 00:27:16.051
that could get him hired by some of

00:27:16.071 --> 00:27:16.211
these

00:27:16.811 --> 00:27:18.553
practice owners as well the reason i

00:27:18.573 --> 00:27:21.334
mentioned in this is because the the high

00:27:21.354 --> 00:27:22.913
school or college athlete or the person

00:27:22.933 --> 00:27:24.855
that works in hospitality would be okay

00:27:24.875 --> 00:27:26.394
with that jimmy they would be okay with

00:27:27.016 --> 00:27:28.496
the three thirty patient cancel but they

00:27:28.536 --> 00:27:30.257
still have that four thirty patient and

00:27:30.277 --> 00:27:31.596
they're not hoping that the four thirty

00:27:31.616 --> 00:27:33.758
patient cancels they're like i'm a gamer

00:27:33.778 --> 00:27:35.878
you know is there an add-on for third

00:27:36.019 --> 00:27:37.858
four third three thirty and i'll see the

00:27:37.878 --> 00:27:39.859
three thirty and the four thirty so like

00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:42.080
not every day is like that maybe maybe

00:27:42.101 --> 00:27:43.540
they don't always have the same motivation

00:27:43.560 --> 00:27:45.142
like that every day but in general that's

00:27:45.162 --> 00:27:45.741
who you're hiring

00:27:46.161 --> 00:27:47.382
I'll run the extra five miles,

00:27:47.422 --> 00:27:47.961
but if we're going to,

00:27:48.041 --> 00:27:49.123
if we're going to skip something,

00:27:49.182 --> 00:27:50.544
why not skip the last five miles?

00:27:50.604 --> 00:27:50.825
Why not?

00:27:50.865 --> 00:27:52.226
You know, if someone said like,

00:27:52.506 --> 00:27:53.547
we're going to pause in the middle,

00:27:53.567 --> 00:27:53.866
I'd be like,

00:27:53.886 --> 00:27:54.788
this is a waste of time.

00:27:54.827 --> 00:27:55.748
Like, let's keep moving.

00:27:55.768 --> 00:27:56.209
In fact, I said,

00:27:56.229 --> 00:27:56.909
the athlete would be like,

00:27:57.169 --> 00:27:58.289
let's be smarter about this.

00:27:58.309 --> 00:27:59.490
If we're going to cancel something,

00:27:59.550 --> 00:28:00.412
I got stuff to do.

00:28:00.432 --> 00:28:02.153
Cause I got to hit the gym.

00:28:03.854 --> 00:28:04.154
Go ahead.

00:28:04.174 --> 00:28:04.375
So that's,

00:28:04.394 --> 00:28:05.935
that's the person who's going to get on

00:28:05.955 --> 00:28:06.395
the phone,

00:28:06.656 --> 00:28:08.438
call the four thirty and move them to

00:28:08.478 --> 00:28:08.798
four.

00:28:08.857 --> 00:28:10.098
That's the person who's going to get on

00:28:10.138 --> 00:28:10.559
the phone,

00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:12.421
call the eval for tomorrow and say, Hey,

00:28:12.441 --> 00:28:13.541
I got an opening today.

00:28:14.403 --> 00:28:14.982
And like,

00:28:15.731 --> 00:28:16.853
I always go back to,

00:28:16.972 --> 00:28:19.615
can you train that into somebody or is

00:28:19.674 --> 00:28:21.336
that just in their nature?

00:28:21.875 --> 00:28:23.217
And I look at my four boys.

00:28:23.797 --> 00:28:26.038
I'm like, look, same parents,

00:28:26.057 --> 00:28:26.999
same household.

00:28:27.459 --> 00:28:30.500
I understand the idea that things are

00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:32.342
different even in the same house.

00:28:32.461 --> 00:28:34.584
But one of my boys,

00:28:34.824 --> 00:28:36.184
he's going to be the one who's like

00:28:36.224 --> 00:28:38.205
calling ahead, getting people moved up,

00:28:38.266 --> 00:28:39.287
moving people around,

00:28:39.326 --> 00:28:41.268
just staying productive.

00:28:42.076 --> 00:28:44.461
And then my other boy would love to

00:28:44.500 --> 00:28:47.144
have an hour break where he's going to

00:28:47.164 --> 00:28:48.346
go hide in the bedroom,

00:28:48.386 --> 00:28:50.250
sit in the back, sip some coffee and,

00:28:50.349 --> 00:28:51.330
you know, watch YouTube.

00:28:52.232 --> 00:28:53.815
So those personalities, man,

00:28:53.835 --> 00:28:54.796
they can be powerful.

00:28:55.517 --> 00:28:55.758
Okay.

00:28:55.817 --> 00:28:56.980
And I would like to hire one and

00:28:57.019 --> 00:28:57.420
not the other.

00:29:02.570 --> 00:29:03.211
Dave, go ahead.

00:29:03.230 --> 00:29:03.691
I was going to say,

00:29:03.711 --> 00:29:04.750
the topic we were talking about on

00:29:04.770 --> 00:29:06.051
Thursday, Tony, when you weren't here,

00:29:06.092 --> 00:29:06.872
did you listen at all?

00:29:06.892 --> 00:29:07.912
Were you able to hear it at all?

00:29:08.031 --> 00:29:08.813
I tried to,

00:29:09.032 --> 00:29:10.093
but I didn't hear this part.

00:29:10.393 --> 00:29:11.693
So the athletic club started,

00:29:11.854 --> 00:29:15.154
it's an eight-facility gym in New York

00:29:15.194 --> 00:29:15.474
City.

00:29:16.015 --> 00:29:17.996
It started out as sort of outdoor free

00:29:18.016 --> 00:29:19.836
workouts, you know, show up,

00:29:19.876 --> 00:29:21.616
we're going to do a group of twenty

00:29:21.656 --> 00:29:22.518
people working out,

00:29:22.837 --> 00:29:24.117
and it grew into brick and mortar,

00:29:24.198 --> 00:29:26.719
and it grew into a decently large

00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:27.239
business.

00:29:27.638 --> 00:29:28.740
And Dave and I were talking, like,

00:29:29.634 --> 00:29:31.634
sort of impromptu steal the strategy.

00:29:31.674 --> 00:29:33.776
If you're hearing this and you own a

00:29:33.816 --> 00:29:34.796
brick and mortar clinic,

00:29:34.855 --> 00:29:36.116
I know you do some things that are

00:29:36.156 --> 00:29:36.497
similar.

00:29:37.096 --> 00:29:39.558
Why wouldn't a clinic facilitate this?

00:29:39.638 --> 00:29:41.459
Why wouldn't you at least try it with

00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:43.500
one of those go-getter employees and say,

00:29:43.780 --> 00:29:45.260
let's try this for three months.

00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:47.142
If you can cultivate a following,

00:29:47.521 --> 00:29:49.163
if you can cultivate a group who shows

00:29:49.242 --> 00:29:52.223
up in unused clinic hours before work,

00:29:52.324 --> 00:29:53.724
after work,

00:29:53.765 --> 00:29:55.105
this is now part of your job and

00:29:55.125 --> 00:29:56.405
you can take a cut of this because

00:29:56.445 --> 00:29:57.527
this is above and beyond.

00:29:59.016 --> 00:30:00.557
so i i actually called my buddy who's

00:30:00.596 --> 00:30:02.419
a psychologist i lucked out because he was

00:30:02.439 --> 00:30:03.940
on a business trip so he was driving

00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:05.241
and had like two hours to talk to

00:30:05.281 --> 00:30:07.143
me about this but we talked all about

00:30:07.182 --> 00:30:09.244
the psychological factors that were a play

00:30:09.765 --> 00:30:11.067
a lot of them which i brought up

00:30:11.106 --> 00:30:14.028
on the episode that that um get brought

00:30:14.048 --> 00:30:16.211
into play when someone registers for like

00:30:16.230 --> 00:30:16.832
a marathon

00:30:17.332 --> 00:30:19.213
through maybe a nonprofit, a charity,

00:30:19.493 --> 00:30:21.055
and they have to fundraise and they get

00:30:21.075 --> 00:30:22.576
into the marathon for free,

00:30:22.695 --> 00:30:23.396
I'm using air quotes,

00:30:23.797 --> 00:30:25.397
but they also get this community of people

00:30:25.419 --> 00:30:27.259
who are also doing that thing too.

00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:29.201
He told me a couple of different things.

00:30:29.422 --> 00:30:30.682
Social identity theory,

00:30:30.982 --> 00:30:32.723
people want to belong to a group that

00:30:32.743 --> 00:30:33.464
they identify with.

00:30:33.484 --> 00:30:34.766
How do you know someone does CrossFit?

00:30:34.806 --> 00:30:36.406
Don't worry, they'll tell you about it.

00:30:36.748 --> 00:30:38.509
You wear the jackets.

00:30:39.269 --> 00:30:40.911
People who do Ironman triathletes,

00:30:41.030 --> 00:30:42.132
I cannot understand this,

00:30:42.231 --> 00:30:42.893
I've done several.

00:30:43.613 --> 00:30:44.873
And kudos to each their own.

00:30:44.932 --> 00:30:45.752
They get the tattoo.

00:30:46.253 --> 00:30:46.953
I can't do it.

00:30:47.054 --> 00:30:47.653
I can't do it.

00:30:48.193 --> 00:30:49.114
What about the lady,

00:30:49.153 --> 00:30:50.233
the eight-year-old lady?

00:30:50.294 --> 00:30:50.874
Do you see that?

00:30:50.913 --> 00:30:51.693
Have you been following?

00:30:51.713 --> 00:30:51.835
Yeah,

00:30:51.855 --> 00:30:52.875
the eight-year-old lady crossing the

00:30:52.894 --> 00:30:53.474
finish line.

00:30:53.494 --> 00:30:53.934
That was awesome.

00:30:53.954 --> 00:30:54.575
Great chair.

00:30:55.275 --> 00:30:56.474
She fell at the end.

00:30:56.515 --> 00:30:57.715
I was like, get up.

00:30:57.776 --> 00:30:58.455
Did she finish?

00:30:59.375 --> 00:31:00.556
So social identity theory,

00:31:00.875 --> 00:31:02.316
the moment you know the names and goals

00:31:02.336 --> 00:31:03.356
of the people around you,

00:31:03.477 --> 00:31:05.176
your fitness journey becomes part of their

00:31:05.217 --> 00:31:07.656
shared story and not a solo grind.

00:31:07.676 --> 00:31:09.298
I've been in triathlon clubs where we

00:31:09.317 --> 00:31:10.778
weren't even training for the same race.

00:31:11.973 --> 00:31:13.736
But on Saturday morning or Sunday morning,

00:31:13.776 --> 00:31:14.758
we'd go for the long ride.

00:31:14.778 --> 00:31:15.778
And if someone wasn't there,

00:31:16.138 --> 00:31:17.421
you sort of got heat for it.

00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:18.782
You know, where were you at?

00:31:18.863 --> 00:31:19.462
We did this.

00:31:19.523 --> 00:31:20.183
And where were you?

00:31:20.724 --> 00:31:22.007
It's because people like us,

00:31:22.086 --> 00:31:22.907
as Seth Godin would say,

00:31:22.948 --> 00:31:25.451
people like us do things like this group

00:31:25.490 --> 00:31:26.672
cohesion and commitment.

00:31:27.846 --> 00:31:29.209
This is the thing we're looking for,

00:31:29.269 --> 00:31:30.390
which is like, all right,

00:31:30.450 --> 00:31:31.372
if you're laying in bed,

00:31:31.412 --> 00:31:32.752
I used to run with some buddies in

00:31:32.813 --> 00:31:33.374
high school.

00:31:33.894 --> 00:31:34.556
If we know we're going to,

00:31:34.576 --> 00:31:35.856
we did like a five K series,

00:31:35.876 --> 00:31:38.119
a five K every Sunday for six weeks.

00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:39.561
You can't skip one.

00:31:39.662 --> 00:31:40.123
Cause they're at,

00:31:40.262 --> 00:31:41.423
we all signed up together.

00:31:41.464 --> 00:31:42.865
Like we jumped into this together.

00:31:43.567 --> 00:31:44.887
A consistency principle,

00:31:45.167 --> 00:31:47.368
that's from Robert Cialdini,

00:31:47.730 --> 00:31:49.510
the guy who wrote Presuasion and

00:31:49.631 --> 00:31:50.111
Influence.

00:31:50.651 --> 00:31:51.951
Once somebody commits to a group,

00:31:52.172 --> 00:31:53.712
especially publicly,

00:31:53.913 --> 00:31:55.334
that's where I think this athletic club

00:31:55.354 --> 00:31:55.994
did it right.

00:31:56.414 --> 00:31:57.796
They're psychologically driven to stay

00:31:57.836 --> 00:31:59.696
consistent with that commitment,

00:32:00.116 --> 00:32:03.459
even when that magic M thing, motivation,

00:32:03.699 --> 00:32:04.279
lapses.

00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:04.839
Everybody's like,

00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:05.861
where do I get motivation?

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.201
Ironically, it's chicken or the egg.

00:32:07.501 --> 00:32:08.481
You got to keep showing up,

00:32:08.602 --> 00:32:09.663
and then you get motivation.

00:32:11.983 --> 00:32:13.005
Are you guys on LinkedIn at all?

00:32:14.348 --> 00:32:14.949
Yeah.

00:32:14.989 --> 00:32:15.868
LinkedIn was smart.

00:32:15.929 --> 00:32:18.609
They jumped on the whole wordle sort of

00:32:18.650 --> 00:32:20.410
phenomenon and they created a handful of

00:32:20.470 --> 00:32:22.951
games and they reward you with nothing

00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:26.070
more than a number of a streak of

00:32:26.111 --> 00:32:27.691
how many days in a row you've played

00:32:27.730 --> 00:32:28.372
that game.

00:32:28.531 --> 00:32:29.731
And then after you hit, you know,

00:32:29.771 --> 00:32:31.092
twenty five, fifty, one hundred,

00:32:31.332 --> 00:32:32.372
you sort of get a little badge.

00:32:32.412 --> 00:32:33.392
You know who cares about that?

00:32:33.632 --> 00:32:35.252
Nobody cares about that except for you.

00:32:35.573 --> 00:32:37.053
I care about that because I'm on one

00:32:37.073 --> 00:32:38.893
hundred nineteen days of playing the

00:32:39.213 --> 00:32:39.554
whatever,

00:32:39.753 --> 00:32:41.013
whatever game it is that I play with

00:32:41.034 --> 00:32:41.693
the five words.

00:32:42.193 --> 00:32:43.776
So there's a couple of things that you

00:32:43.816 --> 00:32:44.435
can build into this.

00:32:44.696 --> 00:32:45.237
But Tony,

00:32:46.018 --> 00:32:48.099
we're not taught any of these things in

00:32:48.140 --> 00:32:48.819
PT school.

00:32:48.901 --> 00:32:49.840
We're taught about units.

00:32:49.861 --> 00:32:51.123
We're talking about what Dave was talking

00:32:51.143 --> 00:32:51.303
about.

00:32:51.383 --> 00:32:52.784
You show up to a hospital,

00:32:53.104 --> 00:32:54.286
you are handed a schedule.

00:32:54.586 --> 00:32:57.327
This sounds like entrepreneurship plus

00:32:58.108 --> 00:33:01.551
psychologically creating a group.

00:33:02.373 --> 00:33:04.034
I feel like this would be something if

00:33:04.054 --> 00:33:05.153
you did it in your community,

00:33:05.253 --> 00:33:05.933
you'd be pissed.

00:33:06.253 --> 00:33:06.714
Here's the thing.

00:33:06.755 --> 00:33:06.934
Again,

00:33:06.954 --> 00:33:08.355
we talked about like Nike strength club

00:33:08.434 --> 00:33:09.935
and I'll get to another example that

00:33:10.236 --> 00:33:11.016
fortifies this.

00:33:11.496 --> 00:33:13.196
You'd be pissed if some,

00:33:13.477 --> 00:33:14.336
and I'm using their quotes again,

00:33:14.717 --> 00:33:18.097
non-credentialed non-professional went and

00:33:18.117 --> 00:33:20.239
just did this exercise,

00:33:20.479 --> 00:33:21.740
this medicine and you're out there just

00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:24.901
prescribing it willy nilly in the park.

00:33:25.540 --> 00:33:25.661
Um,

00:33:26.894 --> 00:33:27.193
Of course,

00:33:27.213 --> 00:33:28.315
I'm being facetious and I feel like I

00:33:28.335 --> 00:33:28.894
have to say that,

00:33:28.934 --> 00:33:30.776
but you'd be pissed if someone else did

00:33:30.836 --> 00:33:30.955
it.

00:33:31.296 --> 00:33:31.576
And yet,

00:33:32.115 --> 00:33:33.156
I don't know if a lot of people

00:33:33.176 --> 00:33:33.737
are doing this.

00:33:34.176 --> 00:33:34.477
Why?

00:33:34.498 --> 00:33:37.798
Dave, were you going to say something?

00:33:38.179 --> 00:33:39.119
No, I don't know.

00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:40.759
I don't know why more people aren't doing

00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.980
this because obviously it works.

00:33:43.281 --> 00:33:44.622
Is it physical therapy?

00:33:44.682 --> 00:33:45.502
Is that the thing?

00:33:45.863 --> 00:33:47.423
Like, is this physical therapy?

00:33:47.442 --> 00:33:48.703
So that's outside of my scope.

00:33:48.784 --> 00:33:50.365
I'll just worry about what's between the

00:33:50.384 --> 00:33:50.724
lines.

00:33:50.744 --> 00:33:51.505
I'm going to play this game.

00:33:51.525 --> 00:33:52.486
This is the game I signed up to

00:33:52.526 --> 00:33:52.726
play.

00:33:54.436 --> 00:33:55.518
Well, so then you wonder,

00:33:55.538 --> 00:33:57.558
do you go back to the whole idea

00:33:57.638 --> 00:33:59.740
of public education and, you know,

00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:01.681
we're raised to be cogs in a wheel.

00:34:02.381 --> 00:34:04.182
And I do think the physical therapy

00:34:04.221 --> 00:34:05.163
profession, I mean,

00:34:05.242 --> 00:34:08.465
it tends to attract those who are academic

00:34:08.525 --> 00:34:09.125
achievers,

00:34:09.545 --> 00:34:11.465
those who have done well on testing,

00:34:11.505 --> 00:34:13.166
those who have done well in academic

00:34:13.206 --> 00:34:16.728
settings, those, you know, the creatives,

00:34:17.088 --> 00:34:20.231
the leaders, the ones who break the rules,

00:34:20.351 --> 00:34:22.192
they're not generally the ones that are

00:34:22.211 --> 00:34:23.793
attracted to this kind of thing.

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.242
We always have the conversation about

00:34:26.302 --> 00:34:28.063
chiropractors versus PTs.

00:34:28.103 --> 00:34:30.306
Like chiropractors go in expecting to open

00:34:30.326 --> 00:34:31.286
their private practice.

00:34:31.327 --> 00:34:34.048
PTs go in generally expecting to have a

00:34:34.108 --> 00:34:34.949
job available.

00:34:35.110 --> 00:34:36.652
Like this is a safe profession.

00:34:38.032 --> 00:34:39.815
The streak is really what you're

00:34:39.835 --> 00:34:40.414
describing.

00:34:40.474 --> 00:34:43.217
It's protecting the sanctity of the

00:34:43.277 --> 00:34:43.737
streak.

00:34:43.898 --> 00:34:45.840
I've done this so many times.

00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:47.561
Even if I don't feel like I want

00:34:47.581 --> 00:34:47.862
to do it,

00:34:47.882 --> 00:34:49.063
I'm going to keep doing it because it's

00:34:49.083 --> 00:34:49.623
a streak.

00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:52.159
We've got patients.

00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:53.820
This is a new phenomenon for us.

00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:55.101
We've been bringing Tucker.

00:34:55.141 --> 00:34:56.722
He just came in here because when he

00:34:56.762 --> 00:34:57.384
comes to the clinic,

00:34:57.403 --> 00:34:58.443
he has to come back here and say

00:34:58.503 --> 00:34:58.724
hi.

00:34:59.465 --> 00:35:01.045
We bring Tucker, my doodle,

00:35:01.425 --> 00:35:04.027
in and patients now are showing up with

00:35:04.108 --> 00:35:04.568
treats.

00:35:05.409 --> 00:35:08.030
They're coming just to see Tucker and

00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:09.552
they'll do physical therapy because

00:35:09.572 --> 00:35:10.072
they're here.

00:35:10.672 --> 00:35:11.012
You know,

00:35:11.152 --> 00:35:14.114
I would guarantee compliance goes up,

00:35:15.054 --> 00:35:16.235
show up rates go up,

00:35:16.255 --> 00:35:18.036
cancellations go down just because they

00:35:18.056 --> 00:35:19.137
want to come in and pet Tucker.

00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:20.581
I mean,

00:35:20.782 --> 00:35:22.643
like there are so many ways to approach

00:35:22.682 --> 00:35:25.903
this.

00:35:26.003 --> 00:35:26.625
So what would you do?

00:35:26.804 --> 00:35:27.925
What would you what would you do to

00:35:27.965 --> 00:35:29.146
create if someone said,

00:35:29.206 --> 00:35:31.246
I'm opening a clinic, I'm a year old,

00:35:33.168 --> 00:35:33.889
I've been in business,

00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:34.949
but I needed a little boost.

00:35:35.070 --> 00:35:36.971
If someone said it suggested this,

00:35:37.030 --> 00:35:38.851
would you suggest it as a viable option?

00:35:40.052 --> 00:35:40.672
Hundred percent.

00:35:40.713 --> 00:35:40.913
Yeah.

00:35:40.932 --> 00:35:43.494
Let's let's pick something to build the

00:35:43.534 --> 00:35:46.596
community around to to establish the

00:35:46.655 --> 00:35:48.036
streak of showing up.

00:35:48.603 --> 00:35:50.005
We know that it doesn't matter what you

00:35:50.045 --> 00:35:50.365
do.

00:35:50.806 --> 00:35:52.467
I don't care if you're doing glute sets

00:35:52.507 --> 00:35:54.028
or if you're doing manual therapy or if

00:35:54.048 --> 00:35:55.269
you're doing heavy deadlifts.

00:35:55.389 --> 00:35:55.949
I don't care.

00:35:56.070 --> 00:35:56.951
Do something.

00:35:57.592 --> 00:35:59.112
You can't do it if you're not here.

00:35:59.614 --> 00:36:00.755
So let's get you here.

00:36:01.094 --> 00:36:03.456
You know, let's get you in the door.

00:36:03.496 --> 00:36:05.358
We've got Dale and Don out there who

00:36:05.398 --> 00:36:06.639
are bringing their joke books.

00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:07.420
And like that,

00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.023
that's a major consistent streak that has

00:36:10.063 --> 00:36:11.884
been going on for years and years and

00:36:11.923 --> 00:36:12.465
years here.

00:36:13.317 --> 00:36:15.659
um build a streak around whatever you want

00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:17.782
but find something to build the streak

00:36:17.802 --> 00:36:20.764
around and build the community around uh

00:36:20.804 --> 00:36:22.686
this leads me sort of to something i

00:36:22.706 --> 00:36:24.628
was planning on talking about but i just

00:36:24.668 --> 00:36:26.891
felt like it fit and i think we've

00:36:26.911 --> 00:36:30.173
brought up this strategy before was panera

00:36:30.193 --> 00:36:30.494
bread

00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:34.402
Panera Bread offers eleven ninety nine a

00:36:34.501 --> 00:36:36.202
month unlimited coffee.

00:36:36.664 --> 00:36:38.804
And if you work or live anywhere near

00:36:38.965 --> 00:36:40.445
one and you drink coffee and you love

00:36:40.485 --> 00:36:41.547
talking about coffee,

00:36:41.567 --> 00:36:43.768
people love talking about coffee and how

00:36:43.807 --> 00:36:45.088
much they love coffee.

00:36:46.610 --> 00:36:49.492
Unlimited coffee for Panera Bread at some

00:36:49.552 --> 00:36:49.992
point.

00:36:50.052 --> 00:36:50.213
I mean,

00:36:50.233 --> 00:36:52.353
I know coffee is relatively when you do

00:36:52.393 --> 00:36:52.914
it at scale,

00:36:52.994 --> 00:36:55.056
relatively inexpensive to prepare and

00:36:55.115 --> 00:36:55.456
sell.

00:36:55.876 --> 00:36:57.056
But they've talked about how it's been a

00:36:57.317 --> 00:36:59.978
million or billion dollar idea because it

00:37:00.018 --> 00:37:01.159
builds consistency.

00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:03.420
if I go there to get coffee,

00:37:03.481 --> 00:37:04.762
do you think people walk in to get

00:37:04.802 --> 00:37:07.222
coffee and then they don't get their lunch

00:37:07.382 --> 00:37:08.583
or they're not getting the next thing that

00:37:08.603 --> 00:37:09.103
they're doing?

00:37:09.664 --> 00:37:11.186
Or now if it's a jump ball,

00:37:11.326 --> 00:37:12.967
if they're at work and their coworkers are

00:37:12.987 --> 00:37:13.286
saying,

00:37:13.306 --> 00:37:14.286
where do you want to go for lunch?

00:37:14.306 --> 00:37:14.768
It's like, well,

00:37:15.367 --> 00:37:17.329
you get free iced coffee over here or

00:37:17.369 --> 00:37:18.409
I could not get free.

00:37:18.489 --> 00:37:19.931
I've already spent that twelve dollars.

00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:22.211
I feel like I'm I'm it's owed to

00:37:22.271 --> 00:37:22.472
me.

00:37:22.871 --> 00:37:24.132
So this is a strategy that I know

00:37:24.213 --> 00:37:25.713
Tony has talked about before.

00:37:26.233 --> 00:37:28.534
I just feel like sometimes people might

00:37:28.574 --> 00:37:29.795
look at things we talk about on the

00:37:29.815 --> 00:37:30.896
show and that's OK and say, well,

00:37:30.936 --> 00:37:31.157
that's

00:37:31.476 --> 00:37:32.376
that works there,

00:37:32.797 --> 00:37:33.777
but that wouldn't work here.

00:37:34.117 --> 00:37:35.498
Or that's not what I do,

00:37:35.637 --> 00:37:36.777
which is a hundred percent fine.

00:37:36.797 --> 00:37:37.657
Or I don't know if I could do

00:37:37.697 --> 00:37:37.878
that.

00:37:38.358 --> 00:37:42.059
This is just showing that their whole goal

00:37:42.099 --> 00:37:44.940
was to build, was to build a habit.

00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:46.280
And now you're,

00:37:46.300 --> 00:37:48.181
you have a Panera habit in a good

00:37:48.201 --> 00:37:48.400
way.

00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:49.420
And they've got you on the hook.

00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:50.581
Similarly to Amazon,

00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:52.762
I've already paid the Amazon prime fee.

00:37:52.802 --> 00:37:53.722
So where am I going to,

00:37:53.742 --> 00:37:54.702
where am I going to shop?

00:37:54.961 --> 00:37:55.882
I've got that little free,

00:37:56.222 --> 00:37:57.143
we had that free shipping.

00:37:57.163 --> 00:37:57.802
So basically,

00:37:58.782 --> 00:38:00.844
these are the psychological principles

00:38:00.864 --> 00:38:01.686
that are at play.

00:38:02.007 --> 00:38:03.907
You can use these things for your

00:38:03.969 --> 00:38:04.469
advantage,

00:38:04.528 --> 00:38:05.931
especially if you're upfront about it,

00:38:06.291 --> 00:38:07.753
especially because if you believe in the

00:38:07.773 --> 00:38:09.474
thing that we sell, which is health,

00:38:09.534 --> 00:38:10.996
wellness, becoming something different,

00:38:11.016 --> 00:38:11.856
a transformation,

00:38:12.637 --> 00:38:13.778
I'd actually say it's your professional

00:38:13.818 --> 00:38:15.561
duty to use and pull all the levers

00:38:15.621 --> 00:38:17.362
that you have to pull to get someone

00:38:17.382 --> 00:38:19.485
to do something.

00:38:19.545 --> 00:38:21.106
So I thought the bear bread example was

00:38:21.146 --> 00:38:21.527
interesting.

00:38:22.088 --> 00:38:23.648
I think Dave does a great job with

00:38:23.668 --> 00:38:23.929
that.

00:38:24.009 --> 00:38:24.349
You know,

00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:27.010
Dave has the capacity to deliver that kind

00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:30.112
of connection and experience with his

00:38:30.152 --> 00:38:32.414
clients, with his team's clients.

00:38:33.713 --> 00:38:35.534
He's talked about things that he's done in

00:38:35.574 --> 00:38:38.097
the past that exceed the expectation.

00:38:38.117 --> 00:38:42.438
If you're able to do it, why not?

00:38:43.331 --> 00:38:43.871
Yeah,

00:38:43.891 --> 00:38:45.452
but you can't do it if you're struggling

00:38:45.552 --> 00:38:47.273
at a minimum wage reimbursement.

00:38:47.653 --> 00:38:48.934
Let me mention real quick,

00:38:48.954 --> 00:38:51.576
because now we've kind of moved into these

00:38:51.876 --> 00:38:54.818
relational relationship connections.

00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.240
Yesterday, you know, I never buy supplies.

00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.322
I just hardly ever do.

00:39:01.523 --> 00:39:02.123
If I do,

00:39:02.182 --> 00:39:03.603
I just go straight to Amazon.

00:39:04.043 --> 00:39:05.644
I buy whatever is quick and easy because

00:39:05.684 --> 00:39:07.065
I know it's going to be here tomorrow

00:39:07.106 --> 00:39:08.226
and I know it's probably priced

00:39:08.266 --> 00:39:08.947
competitively.

00:39:10.623 --> 00:39:13.184
I haven't done Iontophoresis,

00:39:13.244 --> 00:39:14.405
if you guys remember that,

00:39:15.304 --> 00:39:16.346
in at least ten years.

00:39:17.146 --> 00:39:20.108
I had a box of Ionto patches.

00:39:20.527 --> 00:39:21.489
Dave, do you ever use those?

00:39:22.789 --> 00:39:25.090
It's been, I did in my first job,

00:39:25.110 --> 00:39:26.650
my first couple years out of school, yes,

00:39:26.690 --> 00:39:27.532
but it's been a while.

00:39:28.092 --> 00:39:29.592
So you used to use the phoreser,

00:39:29.612 --> 00:39:30.532
a little machine,

00:39:30.552 --> 00:39:31.773
and the patient would have to sit there

00:39:31.813 --> 00:39:33.054
for thirty minutes or whatever.

00:39:33.135 --> 00:39:34.335
Now they have patches that are

00:39:34.375 --> 00:39:35.036
self-contained.

00:39:35.056 --> 00:39:35.655
They're pretty cool.

00:39:36.876 --> 00:39:39.418
And superficial conditions like, you know,

00:39:40.099 --> 00:39:41.719
Lateral epicondylitis, whatever.

00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.661
So yesterday I've got a referral for a

00:39:45.722 --> 00:39:46.382
patient.

00:39:47.402 --> 00:39:48.442
I want to use Dex.

00:39:48.822 --> 00:39:50.123
I need to get this guy back to

00:39:50.182 --> 00:39:52.123
sport like immediately.

00:39:52.182 --> 00:39:53.864
He needs to cover the symptoms.

00:39:53.884 --> 00:39:55.583
He's got two more weeks left to play.

00:39:55.643 --> 00:39:57.505
Then he's got months off.

00:39:57.885 --> 00:39:58.844
Let's just get you back in.

00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.639
So I'm out of patches.

00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.621
I've got the dexamethasone.

00:40:03.722 --> 00:40:05.143
I don't have any way to dispense the

00:40:05.563 --> 00:40:06.384
dexamethasone.

00:40:06.443 --> 00:40:07.364
I go to Amazon.

00:40:07.485 --> 00:40:09.025
They don't have any patches in stock.

00:40:09.065 --> 00:40:10.086
I'm like, crap, what am I?

00:40:10.467 --> 00:40:11.467
Start searching.

00:40:11.688 --> 00:40:13.889
Walmart doesn't have any, walmart.com.

00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:16.411
I go to my last resort,

00:40:17.052 --> 00:40:18.572
which should be my first choice,

00:40:19.092 --> 00:40:19.893
David Ruin.

00:40:20.896 --> 00:40:22.536
I'm like, hey, David,

00:40:22.737 --> 00:40:24.237
I know I've never bought anything from

00:40:24.278 --> 00:40:24.659
you.

00:40:24.759 --> 00:40:26.219
You have no reason to help me on

00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:26.619
this.

00:40:27.161 --> 00:40:29.362
But listen, you guys,

00:40:29.521 --> 00:40:30.523
I was on your site.

00:40:31.443 --> 00:40:32.565
I'm looking for a patch.

00:40:33.085 --> 00:40:33.786
What can we do?

00:40:34.365 --> 00:40:37.007
And like, David is not a salesperson.

00:40:37.027 --> 00:40:38.869
This is his company and, you know,

00:40:38.929 --> 00:40:39.670
all this stuff.

00:40:39.730 --> 00:40:41.590
And he still took the time,

00:40:42.172 --> 00:40:42.831
hooked me up,

00:40:43.313 --> 00:40:45.914
got me to two boxes of patches,

00:40:45.954 --> 00:40:48.056
twelve patches total shipped out like

00:40:48.115 --> 00:40:48.677
yesterday.

00:40:48.697 --> 00:40:50.077
He's like, we get it out right now.

00:40:50.858 --> 00:40:51.518
Get it to you.

00:40:51.557 --> 00:40:52.918
I'm like, what do I do about paying?

00:40:52.938 --> 00:40:53.559
He's like, look,

00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:54.398
I know where to find you.

00:40:54.478 --> 00:40:57.199
Just I'll send you an invoice.

00:40:57.219 --> 00:40:58.039
That was amazing.

00:40:58.440 --> 00:40:58.760
You know,

00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:01.722
and that's the kind of thing that whether

00:41:01.762 --> 00:41:05.182
it's a patient who calls Dave, Dave,

00:41:05.202 --> 00:41:06.262
I haven't seen you in a couple of

00:41:06.282 --> 00:41:06.523
years.

00:41:06.563 --> 00:41:07.443
My back's killing me.

00:41:07.523 --> 00:41:09.164
I need help like right now.

00:41:10.003 --> 00:41:12.684
Or it's a guy like David who helping

00:41:12.704 --> 00:41:14.425
me out of a jam because I've got

00:41:14.465 --> 00:41:16.846
this athlete that literally every single

00:41:16.885 --> 00:41:18.347
day counts for him to get back.

00:41:19.425 --> 00:41:22.248
to the state, the state meet,

00:41:23.728 --> 00:41:24.949
we leverage those.

00:41:25.311 --> 00:41:27.313
Obviously they have to be bi-directional.

00:41:27.373 --> 00:41:30.054
Like I have to extend something good back

00:41:30.094 --> 00:41:30.755
to David.

00:41:31.275 --> 00:41:32.577
That's probably why I'm mentioning it

00:41:32.818 --> 00:41:33.177
here.

00:41:33.777 --> 00:41:36.581
But these are some of the connections that

00:41:36.661 --> 00:41:38.682
I think are run deep in the profession

00:41:38.742 --> 00:41:40.244
and we can really leverage in both

00:41:40.304 --> 00:41:43.067
directions, you know, to help both of us.

00:41:43.166 --> 00:41:44.367
Love it.

00:41:46.081 --> 00:41:46.601
All right.

00:41:46.641 --> 00:41:47.001
Kittle,

00:41:47.161 --> 00:41:49.423
you shared something about credentialing,

00:41:49.885 --> 00:41:51.465
social media credentialing.

00:41:51.525 --> 00:41:55.570
It was in the group chat.

00:41:55.610 --> 00:41:56.751
Social media credentialing.

00:41:56.871 --> 00:41:57.472
I'm trying to remember.

00:41:57.532 --> 00:41:58.311
Let me pull it up.

00:41:58.351 --> 00:41:59.152
Jimmy will find it.

00:41:59.253 --> 00:41:59.653
It says,

00:41:59.753 --> 00:42:02.755
when did medical credentialing become

00:42:02.815 --> 00:42:04.277
social media following?

00:42:05.539 --> 00:42:05.739
Oh, yeah.

00:42:05.759 --> 00:42:06.480
So did you guys watch that?

00:42:06.500 --> 00:42:06.719
If not,

00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:08.201
I can just give you a quick rundown.

00:42:08.461 --> 00:42:09.041
Did you see that video?

00:42:09.061 --> 00:42:09.682
Give us the rundown.

00:42:10.483 --> 00:42:13.369
So the rundown was someone who posted a

00:42:13.389 --> 00:42:15.913
video talking about how

00:42:17.563 --> 00:42:19.063
the healthcare providers,

00:42:19.202 --> 00:42:21.304
physical therapists, physicians, nurses,

00:42:21.324 --> 00:42:24.043
all that are the ones that have like

00:42:24.123 --> 00:42:25.565
the training, the licensure,

00:42:25.625 --> 00:42:26.565
the background,

00:42:26.585 --> 00:42:27.465
they went through the schooling,

00:42:27.485 --> 00:42:28.864
all that for whatever it is,

00:42:28.885 --> 00:42:30.885
all the conditions, diagnoses, treatment,

00:42:31.146 --> 00:42:33.106
all that type of stuff, any, you know,

00:42:33.146 --> 00:42:34.106
medical terminology.

00:42:34.726 --> 00:42:36.806
But the ones that get the most attention

00:42:36.867 --> 00:42:37.586
are these like,

00:42:38.106 --> 00:42:39.347
I don't think the video mentioned

00:42:39.367 --> 00:42:40.827
specifically, but I'll jokingly say like,

00:42:40.847 --> 00:42:41.007
you know,

00:42:41.027 --> 00:42:42.608
like the health coaches or like these

00:42:43.088 --> 00:42:44.329
people that like all of a sudden,

00:42:44.349 --> 00:42:44.648
like they,

00:42:45.588 --> 00:42:47.333
respectfully they gave birth once and now

00:42:47.353 --> 00:42:48.938
all of a sudden they're like a postpartum

00:42:48.998 --> 00:42:50.000
pre and postpartum

00:42:51.067 --> 00:42:54.168
mommy coach to help diastasis recti and

00:42:54.869 --> 00:42:56.471
leakage and incontinence and all this

00:42:56.490 --> 00:42:57.831
other stuff and it's like it is a

00:42:57.871 --> 00:43:00.574
little crazy it is a little crazy uh

00:43:00.594 --> 00:43:03.755
that the now there there's there's pros

00:43:03.775 --> 00:43:05.898
and cons one is like it's kind of

00:43:05.938 --> 00:43:08.458
interesting and cool that like you could

00:43:08.619 --> 00:43:10.380
if you have great content like tony does

00:43:10.481 --> 00:43:11.802
if you have great content you generate a

00:43:11.842 --> 00:43:13.443
following over time because you put in the

00:43:13.463 --> 00:43:14.563
time and the effort and you recorded

00:43:14.583 --> 00:43:15.523
videos and you put it out there and

00:43:15.543 --> 00:43:15.804
all that

00:43:16.525 --> 00:43:18.429
you generate a following then you can sell

00:43:18.469 --> 00:43:21.096
courses or coaching or supplements or

00:43:21.155 --> 00:43:23.340
products or just affiliate codes and

00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:24.643
amazon affiliate codes or whatever

00:43:25.936 --> 00:43:27.556
But that's not what we're all taught and

00:43:27.597 --> 00:43:27.956
trained,

00:43:28.117 --> 00:43:29.416
and that's not what healthcare providers

00:43:29.436 --> 00:43:32.137
typically do until they have a practice or

00:43:32.177 --> 00:43:33.639
a business where they want to get in

00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:34.498
front of the camera more,

00:43:34.518 --> 00:43:35.798
because that's just not what we're,

00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.300
that's not our intent, and that's not our,

00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:41.641
typically, our skill set as a whole.

00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:45.161
Tony and Jimmy and many others have done

00:43:45.202 --> 00:43:46.722
really, really great with this over time.

00:43:47.782 --> 00:43:48.864
But this is basically what the video is

00:43:48.884 --> 00:43:51.365
saying is like, yeah,

00:43:51.846 --> 00:43:54.088
when did medical credentials become social

00:43:54.108 --> 00:43:56.190
media following or vice versa?

00:43:56.230 --> 00:43:58.672
Like the social media influencers that are

00:43:58.751 --> 00:44:00.413
not healthcare providers,

00:44:00.452 --> 00:44:01.574
they don't have licensure.

00:44:01.833 --> 00:44:04.135
They absolutely do say some things that

00:44:04.155 --> 00:44:05.757
are incorrect, that goes against science,

00:44:05.777 --> 00:44:07.398
that goes against proven.

00:44:07.418 --> 00:44:07.818
Go ahead, keep going.

00:44:14.853 --> 00:44:16.153
All right, Jimmy popped out.

00:44:16.193 --> 00:44:16.494
You all right?

00:44:16.974 --> 00:44:20.898
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

00:44:21.018 --> 00:44:22.539
I don't know what's going on.

00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:24.021
We're living in a world where this happens

00:44:24.282 --> 00:44:25.141
every single day.

00:44:25.202 --> 00:44:26.322
I don't think you need to dance around

00:44:26.342 --> 00:44:26.402
it.

00:44:26.463 --> 00:44:29.306
Like people buy a microphone for ninety

00:44:29.326 --> 00:44:29.706
bucks.

00:44:30.067 --> 00:44:31.047
And next thing you know,

00:44:31.327 --> 00:44:33.429
they can be influencing positively or

00:44:33.469 --> 00:44:34.951
negatively, depending on who you are,

00:44:35.271 --> 00:44:36.572
an insane amount of people.

00:44:36.612 --> 00:44:37.793
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:39.507 --> 00:44:41.009
So I don't know,

00:44:41.088 --> 00:44:41.889
where do we go from there?

00:44:41.969 --> 00:44:42.148
I mean,

00:44:42.688 --> 00:44:44.110
what's the solution other than like what

00:44:44.130 --> 00:44:44.630
we're doing?

00:44:44.889 --> 00:44:47.431
We're getting physical therapists to get

00:44:47.530 --> 00:44:49.291
out like Jeremy Sutton and do more video

00:44:49.331 --> 00:44:50.731
content, put out, you know,

00:44:50.751 --> 00:44:51.512
reach more people,

00:44:51.592 --> 00:44:52.773
help impact more people.

00:44:53.253 --> 00:44:53.893
There's definitely,

00:44:53.972 --> 00:44:55.614
I feel like there's more now than ever,

00:44:55.673 --> 00:44:57.293
physical therapists and physicians and

00:44:57.333 --> 00:45:02.115
other nurses, nurse practitioners, DOs,

00:45:02.195 --> 00:45:04.856
MDs, all these folks, more than ever now.

00:45:05.797 --> 00:45:06.757
getting on social media.

00:45:07.297 --> 00:45:08.938
I've followed a ton on Instagram that are

00:45:08.958 --> 00:45:10.880
like New York City physicians and

00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:11.701
healthcare providers.

00:45:12.121 --> 00:45:12.722
And many of them,

00:45:12.862 --> 00:45:14.822
whether it's neurologists, you know,

00:45:14.862 --> 00:45:16.905
headache specialists, orthopedics,

00:45:16.965 --> 00:45:17.485
surgeons,

00:45:17.525 --> 00:45:20.586
like many of them are getting on social

00:45:20.606 --> 00:45:21.907
media, putting more videos out there.

00:45:21.947 --> 00:45:22.507
So that's great.

00:45:22.547 --> 00:45:23.208
That's amazing.

00:45:23.608 --> 00:45:24.829
I don't know who's forced them if they're

00:45:24.869 --> 00:45:25.230
doing it,

00:45:25.530 --> 00:45:26.811
if their team's forcing them to do it.

00:45:27.632 --> 00:45:28.632
We all know that it can help with

00:45:28.672 --> 00:45:29.032
marketing.

00:45:29.072 --> 00:45:30.293
We all know that it can help with

00:45:30.893 --> 00:45:32.695
impacting more patients putting out the

00:45:32.715 --> 00:45:34.697
correct information i think will always

00:45:34.737 --> 00:45:36.858
win out uh but i feel like healthcare

00:45:36.878 --> 00:45:40.661
has certainly lagged uh compared to these

00:45:41.282 --> 00:45:46.427
independent health uh personalities or

00:45:46.467 --> 00:45:47.829
whatever you know whatever we want to say

00:45:47.849 --> 00:45:50.490
that just because they had one experience

00:45:50.510 --> 00:45:52.331
now all of a sudden they can put

00:45:52.391 --> 00:45:54.373
out their own thoughts and

00:45:55.434 --> 00:45:59.416
uh their their opinions on medications and

00:45:59.556 --> 00:46:02.177
contraindications or treatments or

00:46:02.217 --> 00:46:04.177
whatever and so it's a little bit of

00:46:04.197 --> 00:46:05.478
the wild wild west but it's also a

00:46:05.498 --> 00:46:07.257
little bit of like there's more healthcare

00:46:07.277 --> 00:46:09.518
providers getting out there and getting

00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:12.659
popular on social media so i don't know

00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.039
i i think this has always been i

00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:16.940
think it's now very very it's a lot

00:46:17.141 --> 00:46:17.561
easier

00:46:19.882 --> 00:46:20.443
to spread.

00:46:21.244 --> 00:46:23.967
Jenny McCarthy has had a mountain that

00:46:24.007 --> 00:46:25.949
she's loved to die on for years.

00:46:26.865 --> 00:46:27.847
And for some reason,

00:46:28.027 --> 00:46:32.409
she kept getting put on TV because she

00:46:32.429 --> 00:46:34.811
was Jenny McCarthy and she was a little

00:46:34.831 --> 00:46:36.170
crazy, but people who knew who she was,

00:46:36.210 --> 00:46:38.552
there was familiarity, right?

00:46:39.132 --> 00:46:40.514
Familiarity breeds contempt.

00:46:40.914 --> 00:46:42.554
There was familiarity and she said some

00:46:42.574 --> 00:46:44.255
crazy stuff to keep people watching.

00:46:44.715 --> 00:46:47.617
The problem was ideas spread like viruses.

00:46:47.818 --> 00:46:50.480
So people listened to her, right or wrong,

00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.581
based on nothing other than because she

00:46:53.641 --> 00:46:53.922
said it.

00:46:54.737 --> 00:46:56.199
There's a famous quote that I'll hack,

00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:57.900
which is like repeat a lie often enough,

00:46:58.420 --> 00:47:00.362
and it starts to taste like the truth.

00:47:01.702 --> 00:47:03.824
Now it is infinitely, I mean,

00:47:03.983 --> 00:47:05.965
the cost to doing this is, I mean,

00:47:06.025 --> 00:47:07.025
basically zero.

00:47:07.045 --> 00:47:08.907
I mean, you know, or, you know,

00:47:08.947 --> 00:47:10.347
we can reduce the cost of this by

00:47:10.409 --> 00:47:11.628
three hundred, five hundred,

00:47:11.728 --> 00:47:13.190
a thousand percent.

00:47:13.630 --> 00:47:14.771
People are paying you.

00:47:15.672 --> 00:47:17.474
now to create content that actually works

00:47:17.514 --> 00:47:19.777
you are reducing the con the cost of

00:47:19.817 --> 00:47:22.719
creating content to a cost below a more

00:47:22.740 --> 00:47:23.942
than a thousand percent because now

00:47:24.001 --> 00:47:26.565
organizations will pay you you are the

00:47:26.585 --> 00:47:27.045
product

00:47:28.065 --> 00:47:28.865
that you are now being sold.

00:47:28.905 --> 00:47:30.606
So it's, it's just infinitely easier.

00:47:31.047 --> 00:47:31.567
And people,

00:47:31.987 --> 00:47:33.347
the problem is if you ask someone for

00:47:33.367 --> 00:47:33.987
their opinion,

00:47:34.148 --> 00:47:35.088
they're going to give it to you.

00:47:35.367 --> 00:47:36.148
And now it's really,

00:47:36.168 --> 00:47:37.768
really easy to make a following and make

00:47:37.789 --> 00:47:39.849
a living off doing that right or wrong.

00:47:40.248 --> 00:47:41.929
And they don't have licenses as we've

00:47:41.969 --> 00:47:42.789
talked about before.

00:47:42.989 --> 00:47:44.811
There's no repercussions, right?

00:47:44.831 --> 00:47:46.570
What are they going to take your licensure

00:47:46.630 --> 00:47:46.951
away?

00:47:47.311 --> 00:47:48.771
You can't, you can't do it.

00:47:49.692 --> 00:47:52.273
Could you find someone civilly liable for

00:47:53.114 --> 00:47:54.235
spreading misinformation?

00:47:54.956 --> 00:47:56.157
Maybe I'm not a lawyer,

00:47:56.237 --> 00:47:58.559
but I think that's really, really hard to,

00:47:58.619 --> 00:48:00.481
it would be really, really hard to do.

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:02.402
So it continues.

00:48:02.702 --> 00:48:03.463
Where will this go?

00:48:03.742 --> 00:48:04.023
I don't know.

00:48:04.083 --> 00:48:05.485
I think this might lead into a large

00:48:05.525 --> 00:48:06.626
conversation of like,

00:48:06.706 --> 00:48:09.228
what does this thing that wasn't around

00:48:09.387 --> 00:48:11.409
when I, when I graduated college kids,

00:48:11.989 --> 00:48:14.010
social media turn into in the future.

00:48:14.512 --> 00:48:15.773
I mean, I've been sharing some of those.

00:48:15.932 --> 00:48:17.373
Have you guys played around with Sora at

00:48:17.434 --> 00:48:17.534
all?

00:48:17.554 --> 00:48:18.514
Yeah.

00:48:19.246 --> 00:48:20.626
I mean, I've seen Tony been doing it.

00:48:21.608 --> 00:48:22.869
Looks incredibly easy.

00:48:22.949 --> 00:48:24.389
I haven't dug into it just yet,

00:48:24.409 --> 00:48:26.911
but looks incredibly easy to create videos

00:48:26.952 --> 00:48:29.494
that for half a second, you're like,

00:48:29.574 --> 00:48:30.353
wait a second.

00:48:30.713 --> 00:48:31.514
Oh, I got it.

00:48:31.614 --> 00:48:33.456
That's not, you know,

00:48:33.597 --> 00:48:34.918
one of my former bosses is still a

00:48:34.978 --> 00:48:37.159
morning show host and he's like diving off

00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:38.780
the roof of a car at a Bills

00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:39.141
game.

00:48:39.181 --> 00:48:40.422
I'm like, he's not there.

00:48:40.882 --> 00:48:41.561
I get that.

00:48:41.902 --> 00:48:44.423
But like these are laughable right now.

00:48:45.284 --> 00:48:48.150
In six months, eighteen months,

00:48:48.751 --> 00:48:50.554
what is it going to be distinguishable

00:48:50.954 --> 00:48:52.398
from what we shoot or record?

00:48:52.898 --> 00:48:54.121
I don't know the answer to that.

00:48:54.561 --> 00:48:55.443
Where will that go?

00:48:56.103 --> 00:48:58.047
I don't I can't even see the around

00:48:58.068 --> 00:48:58.548
that corner.

00:49:00.108 --> 00:49:02.130
Yeah, but going back,

00:49:02.150 --> 00:49:03.590
you said it's been around forever,

00:49:04.190 --> 00:49:07.512
like the whole snake oil salesman idea.

00:49:07.572 --> 00:49:08.773
Like if you have a horse and a

00:49:08.833 --> 00:49:10.653
buggy and you can go town to town,

00:49:11.313 --> 00:49:13.235
as long as you stay ahead of the

00:49:13.394 --> 00:49:15.775
angry people in the last city you left,

00:49:16.215 --> 00:49:18.677
you can keep selling your magic sap.

00:49:18.797 --> 00:49:19.157
You know,

00:49:19.277 --> 00:49:21.418
like there's no difference in that.

00:49:22.318 --> 00:49:23.458
And I mean,

00:49:23.478 --> 00:49:26.240
so I'm getting called out in my group,

00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:27.201
which is totally fine.

00:49:28.539 --> 00:49:29.760
And I'm being told,

00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.340
I'm being told effectively that like,

00:49:32.501 --> 00:49:33.461
I am the problem.

00:49:33.601 --> 00:49:35.083
I don't believe in the science,

00:49:35.202 --> 00:49:35.862
all this stuff.

00:49:35.902 --> 00:49:39.364
It goes back to the OT goal that

00:49:39.425 --> 00:49:43.065
PTs can't make goals for ADLs or can't

00:49:43.186 --> 00:49:44.487
use ADLs in treatment.

00:49:46.088 --> 00:49:47.509
Okay, that's fine.

00:49:47.548 --> 00:49:50.190
Like, and so there, there's apparently

00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.501
Randomized control trials,

00:49:52.943 --> 00:49:55.405
studies that were done proving the fact,

00:49:55.465 --> 00:49:56.186
I don't understand,

00:49:56.987 --> 00:49:58.009
I got to go back and look at

00:49:58.030 --> 00:50:00.112
them, that OT,

00:50:02.034 --> 00:50:04.318
PTs can't use ADLs for goals.

00:50:05.378 --> 00:50:06.820
Just because you tell me I can't doesn't

00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:07.561
mean that I can't.

00:50:08.731 --> 00:50:10.532
If you want to tell the profession at

00:50:10.592 --> 00:50:12.614
large, they shouldn't.

00:50:13.155 --> 00:50:13.876
That's fine.

00:50:13.936 --> 00:50:14.896
You can do that.

00:50:15.336 --> 00:50:16.056
But I'm like,

00:50:16.717 --> 00:50:20.000
if I'm qualified and trained and I can

00:50:20.059 --> 00:50:20.840
do it, like,

00:50:21.121 --> 00:50:22.621
I don't care what everybody else is doing.

00:50:23.202 --> 00:50:26.545
You know, so it is what it is.

00:50:26.664 --> 00:50:28.126
There's always going to be disagreement.

00:50:28.146 --> 00:50:29.947
That's what makes it so great is that

00:50:30.027 --> 00:50:31.728
we can have these disagreements.

00:50:31.807 --> 00:50:33.389
The person who's telling me this is an

00:50:33.449 --> 00:50:34.349
awesome therapist.

00:50:34.389 --> 00:50:34.809
They're like,

00:50:34.869 --> 00:50:36.532
I would never take anything away from that

00:50:36.612 --> 00:50:36.992
person.

00:50:39.414 --> 00:50:41.416
But yes,

00:50:41.456 --> 00:50:43.076
hanging a shingle and just being like,

00:50:43.117 --> 00:50:44.036
hey, I'm an expert.

00:50:44.697 --> 00:50:46.338
I see it in people who are licensed.

00:50:46.418 --> 00:50:48.137
I see it in people who are unlicensed.

00:50:48.219 --> 00:50:49.938
I see it all over the place.

00:50:49.978 --> 00:50:51.719
There's plenty of people with MD after

00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:55.360
their name selling some crazy ass stuff.

00:50:58.864 --> 00:51:00.045
It was a great conversation.

00:51:01.027 --> 00:51:02.688
I saw a snapshot of a conversation.

00:51:02.768 --> 00:51:04.369
You know, Dr. Mike Tortovic?

00:51:04.389 --> 00:51:06.371
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:06.391 --> 00:51:08.211
MD with a social media following.

00:51:08.893 --> 00:51:11.394
I wanted to send you, talk about that,

00:51:11.414 --> 00:51:12.936
because I wanted to send you a video

00:51:12.976 --> 00:51:14.297
that he did that I think you're going

00:51:14.317 --> 00:51:14.797
to reference.

00:51:15.318 --> 00:51:16.159
Yeah, he was talking with,

00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:17.219
and I didn't know the guy he was

00:51:17.260 --> 00:51:17.840
talking with,

00:51:17.900 --> 00:51:19.661
but the guy he was talking with sells

00:51:20.001 --> 00:51:20.842
prebiotics.

00:51:22.019 --> 00:51:23.242
And Mike was saying,

00:51:23.541 --> 00:51:25.545
I have thirteen million followers on this

00:51:25.605 --> 00:51:27.887
channel and I don't sell that.

00:51:27.987 --> 00:51:30.831
I could sell them prebiotics, but I don't.

00:51:31.371 --> 00:51:32.594
And essentially he was like trying to talk

00:51:32.614 --> 00:51:33.534
this guy off a ledge.

00:51:34.076 --> 00:51:34.577
And he was like,

00:51:35.097 --> 00:51:36.679
why don't you think I could make a

00:51:36.778 --> 00:51:37.721
lot of money selling

00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:40.902
I could sell your prebiotics on my YouTube

00:51:40.922 --> 00:51:42.083
channel that has thirteen million

00:51:42.123 --> 00:51:42.563
followers.

00:51:42.903 --> 00:51:44.324
Why do you think that I don't?

00:51:44.786 --> 00:51:45.626
And the guy was like,

00:51:46.106 --> 00:51:47.027
it's like a therapy session.

00:51:47.047 --> 00:51:47.608
He's like, well,

00:51:47.668 --> 00:51:48.648
I guess you don't believe in them.

00:51:48.708 --> 00:51:48.927
He goes,

00:51:49.289 --> 00:51:52.231
the science hasn't proved a consensus of

00:51:52.271 --> 00:51:54.672
my colleagues that this is a good idea

00:51:54.913 --> 00:51:56.414
to tell people at mass.

00:51:56.474 --> 00:51:57.074
And he's like, well,

00:51:57.094 --> 00:51:57.934
that's what you believe.

00:51:58.909 --> 00:52:01.550
I love the example of what we so

00:52:01.570 --> 00:52:03.451
this might be a condition of like also

00:52:03.471 --> 00:52:04.590
what we're talking about at the beginning

00:52:04.650 --> 00:52:04.992
of the show.

00:52:05.052 --> 00:52:05.311
Right.

00:52:06.092 --> 00:52:07.612
It's been hammered in everyone's head.

00:52:07.652 --> 00:52:10.753
We all have an opinion and our opinions

00:52:10.994 --> 00:52:12.173
are all worth something.

00:52:12.635 --> 00:52:12.914
Right.

00:52:13.275 --> 00:52:14.315
And they're all equal.

00:52:14.896 --> 00:52:16.675
But that last part isn't true.

00:52:16.896 --> 00:52:18.097
And here's the example I'll give.

00:52:18.456 --> 00:52:21.617
My dad was sitting here at pre-stroke and

00:52:21.677 --> 00:52:22.798
we both had an opinion.

00:52:23.543 --> 00:52:24.364
And they're both equal.

00:52:24.686 --> 00:52:26.168
But the house was on fire.

00:52:26.449 --> 00:52:27.130
And I said,

00:52:27.409 --> 00:52:28.751
I think we should run to the basement.

00:52:29.092 --> 00:52:29.793
And my dad,

00:52:30.195 --> 00:52:32.818
who for twenty five years fought fires in

00:52:32.838 --> 00:52:34.380
New York City, said, no,

00:52:34.641 --> 00:52:36.405
we should jump out the window because fire

00:52:36.425 --> 00:52:37.126
is going to do this.

00:52:38.358 --> 00:52:39.099
What should we do?

00:52:39.259 --> 00:52:39.400
Well,

00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:41.139
we should sit still and wait for a

00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.601
third person to arrive because our

00:52:42.621 --> 00:52:43.521
opinions are equal.

00:52:43.922 --> 00:52:46.242
No, some opinions aren't equal.

00:52:46.463 --> 00:52:47.342
In that situation,

00:52:47.543 --> 00:52:49.563
we should listen to the fireman, right?

00:52:49.965 --> 00:52:51.005
So in this conversation,

00:52:51.025 --> 00:52:51.885
that's what it felt like.

00:52:51.945 --> 00:52:53.445
It felt like a fireman, Mike,

00:52:54.467 --> 00:52:56.867
a medical doctor was talking to this other

00:52:56.907 --> 00:52:57.128
guy.

00:52:57.268 --> 00:52:58.528
I don't know his credentials,

00:52:58.768 --> 00:53:00.849
but I know it wasn't medical doctor was

00:53:00.869 --> 00:53:02.471
saying, I know you sell prebiotics.

00:53:03.210 --> 00:53:04.351
Help me logic this.

00:53:04.552 --> 00:53:06.614
I like to make money, says Dr. Mike.

00:53:06.733 --> 00:53:08.795
Why aren't I selling prebiotics at mass?

00:53:09.197 --> 00:53:11.378
Because they're not a consensus good idea

00:53:11.398 --> 00:53:11.960
to do that.

00:53:11.980 --> 00:53:12.699
And the other guy was like,

00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:13.521
that's your opinion.

00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:14.802
Our opinions are equal.

00:53:15.282 --> 00:53:16.023
But they're not.

00:53:16.583 --> 00:53:17.264
Correct.

00:53:17.324 --> 00:53:17.684
Agreed.

00:53:18.085 --> 00:53:19.327
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed.

00:53:19.726 --> 00:53:21.349
Your hundred thousand followers on

00:53:21.429 --> 00:53:23.190
Instagram means you're very good at...

00:53:23.851 --> 00:53:25.811
creating followers on Instagram,

00:53:25.911 --> 00:53:29.253
but we do confuse size of following with

00:53:29.333 --> 00:53:32.835
validity of words and your cred, right?

00:53:33.335 --> 00:53:34.916
Your credentials and cred.

00:53:35.697 --> 00:53:38.057
Two different things sound similar,

00:53:38.478 --> 00:53:40.759
but one is like credibility or clout.

00:53:40.818 --> 00:53:42.019
Maybe we'll start talking clout.

00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.521
Your clout online does not directly equal

00:53:45.981 --> 00:53:46.501
credibility.

00:53:47.181 --> 00:53:48.603
Look at all you nitwits who listen to

00:53:48.643 --> 00:53:50.364
my podcast when I started as a PT

00:53:50.403 --> 00:53:50.744
student.

00:53:51.731 --> 00:53:53.172
You're listening to a podcast hosted by a

00:53:53.213 --> 00:53:53.873
PT student.

00:53:53.932 --> 00:53:54.653
I didn't know anything.

00:53:55.054 --> 00:53:56.215
I was smart enough to say,

00:53:56.815 --> 00:53:58.235
I'm going to hold the microphone and put

00:53:58.295 --> 00:54:00.978
smart people in front of the microphone or

00:54:00.998 --> 00:54:01.297
the camera.

00:54:01.318 --> 00:54:02.318
We didn't have a camera back then.

00:54:03.139 --> 00:54:07.302
But I let them hang themselves or lift

00:54:07.322 --> 00:54:08.822
themselves by their own words.

00:54:09.043 --> 00:54:10.264
Like I was very clear.

00:54:10.364 --> 00:54:12.186
This person is giving their opinion.

00:54:12.226 --> 00:54:13.266
And if there's a different opinion,

00:54:13.487 --> 00:54:14.246
I will listen to it.

00:54:14.507 --> 00:54:17.969
So my lack of cred was my clout.

00:54:18.090 --> 00:54:18.929
I was like, I don't know this,

00:54:18.949 --> 00:54:19.911
but we're going to get to the bottom

00:54:19.931 --> 00:54:20.070
of it.

00:54:20.090 --> 00:54:21.291
I'm going to make someone use their own

00:54:21.331 --> 00:54:21.612
words.

00:54:23.632 --> 00:54:25.094
So we're wrapping up the show.

00:54:26.155 --> 00:54:27.195
We're wrapping up the show.

00:54:27.255 --> 00:54:29.916
The clip that I saw that you weren't

00:54:29.956 --> 00:54:31.938
talking about, same Dr. Mike guy.

00:54:32.619 --> 00:54:33.139
He was,

00:54:33.759 --> 00:54:35.360
I don't remember if he was in front

00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:37.802
of like a conference talking to a group

00:54:37.942 --> 00:54:39.163
of other physicians,

00:54:39.583 --> 00:54:41.184
but basically what he was saying was,

00:54:41.264 --> 00:54:42.465
look,

00:54:42.625 --> 00:54:45.186
we have this incredible knowledge base,

00:54:45.226 --> 00:54:47.387
research, support, all of this stuff,

00:54:47.967 --> 00:54:49.748
but somebody with none of it

00:54:50.652 --> 00:54:52.612
has a big social media platform.

00:54:53.213 --> 00:54:55.454
They produce a video that reaches tens of

00:54:55.514 --> 00:54:59.456
millions of people completely like off

00:54:59.516 --> 00:55:00.016
base.

00:55:00.597 --> 00:55:03.579
Then the AMA comes out and puts this

00:55:03.639 --> 00:55:05.320
little tweet saying that, you know,

00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:07.280
that's inaccurate information that reaches

00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:09.081
a thousand people is like,

00:55:09.282 --> 00:55:10.943
why don't we have more,

00:55:11.202 --> 00:55:15.146
more people like me, he's saying him, um,

00:55:15.405 --> 00:55:17.646
out there, you know, reaching millions.

00:55:18.128 --> 00:55:20.489
Now, I would say, obviously,

00:55:20.849 --> 00:55:23.150
you got to have, like, the looks.

00:55:23.331 --> 00:55:24.012
He's got it.

00:55:24.351 --> 00:55:25.331
He's the right age.

00:55:25.632 --> 00:55:26.893
He's the right demographic.

00:55:27.253 --> 00:55:28.713
He's got the right personality.

00:55:28.753 --> 00:55:28.934
Like,

00:55:28.974 --> 00:55:31.155
you've got to have the other mixture of

00:55:31.215 --> 00:55:34.516
things to get to that point where you

00:55:34.536 --> 00:55:36.996
can build a platform that now he's built.

00:55:37.556 --> 00:55:37.697
Now,

00:55:37.737 --> 00:55:39.277
he can lift other people up and he

00:55:39.297 --> 00:55:41.338
can do other things, right?

00:55:42.349 --> 00:55:44.192
But I thought it was really interesting

00:55:44.231 --> 00:55:46.673
that he was trying to show the AMA,

00:55:47.315 --> 00:55:49.237
just like others have tried to show the

00:55:49.396 --> 00:55:50.097
APTA.

00:55:50.978 --> 00:55:53.521
Look, we need to leverage social media.

00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.003
It's not about putting out the same

00:55:56.043 --> 00:55:58.425
ridiculous dry statistics that this many

00:55:58.465 --> 00:55:59.405
people follow a year.

00:55:59.865 --> 00:56:02.268
It's about engaging and storytelling and

00:56:02.347 --> 00:56:04.849
connecting with humans and making the

00:56:04.889 --> 00:56:07.572
content something they want to hear and

00:56:07.592 --> 00:56:08.452
they're seeking out.

00:56:08.753 --> 00:56:09.532
The irony,

00:56:10.114 --> 00:56:13.416
large organizations get nervous when the

00:56:13.516 --> 00:56:15.498
idea is push publish a lot.

00:56:15.518 --> 00:56:16.958
Yeah.

00:56:17.018 --> 00:56:18.380
They confuse...

00:56:19.773 --> 00:56:23.594
slowness of speed with safety.

00:56:23.634 --> 00:56:23.934
Well,

00:56:24.614 --> 00:56:26.375
let's get fifty people to look at this

00:56:26.414 --> 00:56:27.494
to make sure this is OK,

00:56:27.514 --> 00:56:29.534
because because we understand what

00:56:29.594 --> 00:56:31.436
Spider-Man said with great power comes

00:56:31.476 --> 00:56:32.295
great responsibility.

00:56:32.516 --> 00:56:34.436
If we say it and we're wrong,

00:56:35.577 --> 00:56:37.556
it could echo and we can't wipe that

00:56:37.617 --> 00:56:37.876
off.

00:56:38.697 --> 00:56:39.436
I agree with that.

00:56:39.838 --> 00:56:40.518
I agree with that.

00:56:41.018 --> 00:56:41.378
So then.

00:56:43.077 --> 00:56:46.119
How has how have great news organizations.

00:56:47.492 --> 00:56:49.853
been able to publish multiple times a day

00:56:49.893 --> 00:56:50.893
or week or month,

00:56:52.355 --> 00:56:53.576
and they still have credibility.

00:56:54.016 --> 00:56:54.856
That's where I've said,

00:56:55.257 --> 00:56:56.518
I said this years ago and I just

00:56:56.538 --> 00:56:57.498
stole it from someone else.

00:56:58.018 --> 00:57:00.041
I need your organization to become a media

00:57:00.081 --> 00:57:00.360
company.

00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:02.041
I need you to understand that.

00:57:02.302 --> 00:57:06.824
And I don't know that they will.

00:57:07.164 --> 00:57:08.326
I don't know that enough of them will,

00:57:08.365 --> 00:57:09.387
enough of the good ones will.

00:57:09.586 --> 00:57:12.009
I hope that the APTA does, but

00:57:13.288 --> 00:57:14.309
Oh, this breaks my heart too.

00:57:14.409 --> 00:57:15.268
I won't say who it is,

00:57:15.548 --> 00:57:17.849
but I see great companies saying we need

00:57:17.869 --> 00:57:18.489
to be on media.

00:57:18.690 --> 00:57:19.590
Let's double down.

00:57:19.791 --> 00:57:21.391
And they want to do like a funny

00:57:21.431 --> 00:57:21.871
dance.

00:57:22.112 --> 00:57:22.572
And they're like,

00:57:22.652 --> 00:57:24.172
let's triple down on the cute.

00:57:24.913 --> 00:57:27.114
Let's triple down on the cute because Dr.

00:57:27.153 --> 00:57:28.034
Walkie here is right.

00:57:28.135 --> 00:57:29.335
Algorithms reward engagement,

00:57:29.355 --> 00:57:29.795
not accuracy.

00:57:30.074 --> 00:57:31.356
So that's the safe thing.

00:57:32.295 --> 00:57:34.577
Let's do the cute thing and we don't

00:57:34.597 --> 00:57:35.918
have to talk about the real thing.

00:57:37.226 --> 00:57:38.568
The only thing I'll push back on,

00:57:38.807 --> 00:57:40.487
Mike is a handsome dude.

00:57:40.768 --> 00:57:41.688
He is well-spoken.

00:57:41.909 --> 00:57:42.608
He is smart.

00:57:43.009 --> 00:57:44.829
I think it's in reverse order of why

00:57:44.869 --> 00:57:45.690
he's successful.

00:57:46.190 --> 00:57:48.512
I think he was consistent, smart,

00:57:48.751 --> 00:57:49.952
picked the right topics,

00:57:51.112 --> 00:57:52.592
and he's well-spoken and a good-looking

00:57:52.612 --> 00:57:52.793
dude.

00:57:53.152 --> 00:57:54.213
So I will not say none of those

00:57:54.253 --> 00:57:55.653
things don't help.

00:57:57.074 --> 00:57:58.175
I think the fact that he showed up

00:57:58.235 --> 00:58:00.255
early, if he did three videos a month,

00:58:00.376 --> 00:58:01.476
he wouldn't be where he was.

00:58:01.876 --> 00:58:03.458
He quadrupled down on that.

00:58:04.097 --> 00:58:06.398
I think most organizations are so scared

00:58:06.438 --> 00:58:06.759
of this.

00:58:07.829 --> 00:58:08.971
that they don't do anything.

00:58:09.391 --> 00:58:11.791
All they do is publish Marvel movies over

00:58:11.811 --> 00:58:12.413
and over again.

00:58:12.532 --> 00:58:14.353
Let me show you the Apple,

00:58:14.994 --> 00:58:17.856
the camera zooming, all those things.

00:58:18.135 --> 00:58:19.197
That doesn't do anything.

00:58:19.416 --> 00:58:19.916
It doesn't.

00:58:20.297 --> 00:58:21.338
The person is listening to the

00:58:21.378 --> 00:58:23.679
thirty-minute diatribe on which prebiotics

00:58:23.699 --> 00:58:25.521
they should take because they're tired.

00:58:27.922 --> 00:58:28.963
I don't see it getting better.

00:58:29.322 --> 00:58:29.643
Gosh,

00:58:29.722 --> 00:58:31.364
I've gone from being optimist to a

00:58:31.423 --> 00:58:33.846
pessimist.

00:58:33.905 --> 00:58:34.445
In just a short time.

00:58:34.505 --> 00:58:35.407
All right, parting shot, Dave.

00:58:35.427 --> 00:58:35.786
You're up.

00:58:37.427 --> 00:58:38.148
Parting shot.

00:58:38.208 --> 00:58:40.449
I like the theme of chatting about this

00:58:40.610 --> 00:58:43.711
specifically about the unlicensed,

00:58:44.871 --> 00:58:47.733
basically uneducated folks on social media

00:58:47.753 --> 00:58:49.574
that just put out a ton of random

00:58:49.594 --> 00:58:51.576
thoughts and videos and opinions,

00:58:51.615 --> 00:58:53.277
typically not really backed by anything

00:58:53.336 --> 00:58:54.117
other than their own.

00:58:55.619 --> 00:58:59.420
one person experience versus the challenge

00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:00.202
of the slow,

00:59:00.242 --> 00:59:03.844
big risk averse organizations and

00:59:03.943 --> 00:59:05.003
companies and hospitals.

00:59:05.204 --> 00:59:06.184
And those two,

00:59:06.344 --> 00:59:07.666
like that is those two things.

00:59:07.726 --> 00:59:13.248
That is one has no, no hesitation.

00:59:13.728 --> 00:59:15.670
One side has no hesitation to hit publish.

00:59:15.889 --> 00:59:17.731
And the other side has like significant

00:59:17.751 --> 00:59:18.851
hesitations to hit publish.

00:59:19.092 --> 00:59:22.393
And that's why we're where we're at.

00:59:22.434 --> 00:59:22.994
Sounds good.

00:59:23.672 --> 00:59:24.193
All right, guys,

00:59:24.233 --> 00:59:25.476
come back and see us Thursday,

00:59:25.496 --> 00:59:27.659
eight thirty, eight thirty a.m.

00:59:27.820 --> 00:59:28.302
Eastern.

00:59:29.003 --> 00:59:31.909
Jimmy, Dave, I appreciate you guys.

00:59:32.289 --> 00:59:32.971
Enjoy your day.

00:59:32.990 --> 00:59:34.153
Thank you.