From PT Clinic to Netflix: The Journey of Innovating Neck Rehab

WEBVTT

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but we're gonna go through from the start.

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We'll start from the start.

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We'll go super basic.

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So the person listening to

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this has no idea who you are, right?

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All right, so Scott Dickinson,

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welcome to the program.

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Hey, Jimmy.

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Thanks for having me.

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I've been a big fan of yours for a while,

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so I'm honored here.

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It's weird to hear.

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It's weird to hear,

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because I still think I'm

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just talking to myself in

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my kitchen a lot.

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And I'm watching everything.

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I'm watching everything fly by,

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and I'm just talking,

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and I realize how people

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actually listen to this.

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But maybe that's the theme

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of not only this episode, but this week,

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which is the little thing

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that you have in your head or your heart.

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or both,

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can go out into the world and have

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a pretty big ripple across

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places that you as an

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individual might not have

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ever gotten to in this

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thing that you created.

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So let's start super high level.

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Pretend no one has any idea

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who you are and what you did.

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What did you create?

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What is the thing that you

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went from idea to reality?

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Describe your product,

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and then we'll talk about

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deeper about how that actually happened.

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Yeah.

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So I'm a physical therapist

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and I invented a neck

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strengthening device.

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And the easiest way to think of that,

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if we only have audio to serve us,

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would be it's like a reformer,

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like a Pilates reformer,

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that sliding deck with the

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resistance cords.

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It's like that, but it's for your neck.

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And so you lie down and you

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rest your head on this

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smaller reformer and you

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can do different neck

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strengthening exercises,

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gravity eliminated.

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So when you lie down, of course,

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All of gravity's compression

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forces are released.

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And so we found that patients,

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people with neck issues,

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do a lot better rehabbing

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on their back or on their

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stomach than they would

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otherwise in an upright position.

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And in that description,

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you did not use the word

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skateboard at all.

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It was zero times.

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But a skateboard had

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something to do with this, right?

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Somewhere along the line.

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Yes, certainly.

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So the first prototype,

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the first official

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prototype was simply my skateboard.

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So I'm a skateboarder.

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I was obsessed with

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skateboarding growing up.

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I spent a lot of time

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learning and harnessing the

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craft of skateboarding.

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So I always had that with me.

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And it just so happened that

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that was like the perfect

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first prototype because I

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needed a sliding deck,

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something that had very low

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friction that would move

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underneath my head when I

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turned my head back and forth rotation.

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And when I lied down,

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it just so happens that the

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skateboard fits right there

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underneath your head.

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You can turn back and forth

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and it's like a moving pillow.

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And I was like, oh, wow,

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this this feels like better

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than I thought it would.

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It feels better than it probably should.

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And then I put, you know,

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the grip tape was kind of

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rough on my hair, of course.

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So I put a towel down.

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And I was like, hey, mom,

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because I was living with

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my parents at the time.

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Hey, mom, would you try this as well?

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Hey, dad.

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And everyone was like, yeah,

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this feels this feels like pretty good.

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So it's like a green light

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to just to just keep on going.

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But I will tell you that I

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was even that moment was

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pretty scary just to just easily fail.

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And, you know, it didn't feel good.

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And then my whole ideas.

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Sure.

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It's true.

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You said something right there.

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And I like to key in on on

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words because I'm a words guy.

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You said green light.

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And that means you were

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looking for it sounds like

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you were looking for

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permission to maybe take this idea.

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And we do this a lot.

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It's not just in product development,

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but like you're sort of

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looking around the room and

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you're seeing or trying to see,

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does someone else see or

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feel the same thing that I see and feel?

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Do I have that?

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Is that kind of you're nodding,

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but is I have that right?

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A hundred percent.

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Yeah.

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I think of the early days as

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just a series of green

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lights where I didn't know

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what I was doing.

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I didn't know if I was on the right track,

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but it always just felt

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right to keep going towards

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the next step.

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And whenever that step would come,

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I would test it out.

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I would try the new prototype.

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I would show it to a new neighbor.

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And it was always the signal

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to keep going.

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It was always there.

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And so that was the motivation.

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And early on,

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It was just do something every day.

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Because I had never gone into this world.

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I was working as a full-time clinician.

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My mind was in many places.

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But I promised myself in the

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early days of prototyping, do one thing.

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It could be very small.

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Send one email.

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Try one new product.

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Whatever.

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Just do one thing every day.

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And that grew and grew and

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grew as this thing took root.

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Do you ever see the movie

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The Martian with Matt Damon?

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No.

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Yes.

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Sounds like that where he's like, listen,

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you solve a problem and

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then you solve another one

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and solve another one.

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But if you look at it from, hey,

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I've got to solve 500 problems,

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you'd probably never get started.

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But the approach that you

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had and so did Matt Damon

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when he was stranded on

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Mars was just solve the one

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in front of me,

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which is the biggest problem.

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What is the one closest to

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me that I need to solve?

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Is it food or water or

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oxygen in Matt Damon's case?

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But in your case,

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it was all these different

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product development or

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different product problems along the way.

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So let's get to the story though.

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So resistance bands are good.

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Or if you look at your website,

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you got a guy holding the

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resistance band and he's not liking it.

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it's sort of gets the job done,

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but not well enough.

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And then when your head was

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sort of on that skateboard, you said, Hey,

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listen, I don't know what this is,

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but something's there

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because this is giving me emotion.

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If I could somehow make this skateboard,

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which is frictionless,

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if I could put some resistance behind it,

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we might have something.

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So after mom and dad sort of, of course,

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they're going to be in your corner.

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Of course,

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mom and dad are going to give

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you a green light.

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There are ultimate green lights,

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hopefully most of the time,

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but where did things go next?

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Because now you're starting to step back.

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I don't want to say you're

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step out of your comfort zone.

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You were taking your

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clinical comfort zone into

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a different place,

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sort of wrapping it around

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yourself like a hamster ball.

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Like, okay,

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I know what I'm trying to do or

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why I'm trying to do it,

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but I don't know where to go next.

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So how did you take that

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first step into saying, hey,

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I'm going to see how far

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this goes into actually

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developing a tangible thing?

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Yeah, well, it goes back to PT school.

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And a lot of this has been emotional,

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like a gut feeling and

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I remember very vividly.

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I was in Scottsdale,

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Arizona at rehab plus a clinic.

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And I had a patient with a

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cervical radiculopathy and

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my instructor was like,

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you could try some

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resistance band exercises for her neck.

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And I was like, okay, we'll try that out.

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And we like mangled together

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this band around her head and,

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I pulled on it and she didn't like that.

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And then she pulled on it

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and it just felt terrible.

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You know,

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I felt uncomfortable giving her

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the exercise.

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She certainly didn't like the exercise.

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And it was that feeling that like, oh,

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this is like embarrassing

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for my profession that I'm going into.

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It really bothered me to my core.

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And then also like chin tucks.

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They're a great exercise

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when done properly and when

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you get the patient to buy in.

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But man,

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that's a tough sell for some patients.

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And man,

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they have a tough time isolating

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that movement.

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And so just like all these

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little exercises that we,

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like they're there and

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they're potentially good.

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but none of them really

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clicked every time.

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And I was like,

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I feel like there's this

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massive market here.

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I wasn't thinking like that.

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I didn't have those business

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words in my head at the time.

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I was a pure PT student.

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I knew anatomy and I knew

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manual therapy and I knew kinesiology.

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Nothing of the business world.

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But that was like the fire.

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I was like, boy, this didn't feel right.

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And it was a feel thing.

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And so as I got back for residency,

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back to the East Coast for

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residency at University of Delaware,

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I spent the weekends after

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clinic prototyping, thinking.

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And that was where it took root.

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And then I had a neighbor say like, hey,

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I really like this prototype.

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I've been using it every day.

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And it really helps my neck.

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I get so much tension and I bike a lot.

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I really like this.

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Can I buy it from you?

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I was like, what?

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That thing is like, it was ugly.

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It, it, it worked really well.

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It was super smooth, but it was hideous.

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And he's like, yeah, I'd like to keep it.

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I was like, wow.

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Now that's, you know,

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that's a green light.

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Yeah.

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So I was like, geez,

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I think I'm onto something.

00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:06.122
And of course, you know,

00:08:06.882 --> 00:08:08.064
working as a clinician

00:08:08.144 --> 00:08:09.285
seems to put the right

00:08:09.365 --> 00:08:10.846
patients in front of you to

00:08:10.887 --> 00:08:11.846
do what you need to do at

00:08:11.887 --> 00:08:12.908
that stage in your life.

00:08:13.007 --> 00:08:14.129
I don't know how that works,

00:08:14.750 --> 00:08:16.312
but of course I'm starting

00:08:16.331 --> 00:08:17.952
to treat a machinist at the time.

00:08:18.432 --> 00:08:20.014
And the machinist knew the

00:08:20.115 --> 00:08:22.137
right people in my area to

00:08:22.197 --> 00:08:23.677
do some early prototyping.

00:08:23.858 --> 00:08:25.560
So he knew another machinist

00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.721
that was retired that just

00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:28.201
enjoyed prototyping.

00:08:28.882 --> 00:08:30.103
and so we worked together

00:08:30.184 --> 00:08:31.665
and you know I had no idea

00:08:31.706 --> 00:08:32.725
what I was doing I had no

00:08:32.806 --> 00:08:34.268
idea what what the right

00:08:34.368 --> 00:08:35.688
price for a prototype would

00:08:35.708 --> 00:08:36.950
be I had no idea how much

00:08:36.990 --> 00:08:38.792
to spend for each prototype

00:08:39.292 --> 00:08:40.732
and bear in mind I was a

00:08:41.053 --> 00:08:42.414
resident so I was making

00:08:42.654 --> 00:08:44.035
half of a pt's normal

00:08:44.076 --> 00:08:45.496
salary living with my

00:08:45.557 --> 00:08:47.119
parents and so you know

00:08:47.178 --> 00:08:48.700
fresh out of grad school so

00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:49.600
I didn't have a ton of

00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:50.542
money to throw at this

00:08:50.601 --> 00:08:51.722
thing and I didn't even

00:08:51.743 --> 00:08:52.903
know if I should be you

00:08:52.923 --> 00:08:54.225
know it still felt really

00:08:54.284 --> 00:08:55.605
scary to even throw 100

00:08:55.605 --> 00:08:56.287
bucks at something

00:08:56.667 --> 00:08:58.408
let alone like a thousand

00:08:58.447 --> 00:09:00.028
dollars on a single prototype.

00:09:00.688 --> 00:09:02.230
So, you know,

00:09:02.669 --> 00:09:04.591
I'm moving and I'm dancing

00:09:04.610 --> 00:09:05.631
and I'm thinking about all

00:09:05.672 --> 00:09:07.072
this stuff for months and

00:09:07.091 --> 00:09:08.432
we're moving through prototypes.

00:09:09.313 --> 00:09:10.014
And, you know,

00:09:10.214 --> 00:09:12.455
eventually I just like committed to it.

00:09:12.575 --> 00:09:14.296
I was like this, you know, I got to like,

00:09:14.375 --> 00:09:14.995
I got to do this.

00:09:15.056 --> 00:09:15.937
Like this feels right.

00:09:16.517 --> 00:09:17.498
I think I'm onto something.

00:09:17.577 --> 00:09:18.398
We'll get somewhere.

00:09:18.817 --> 00:09:19.918
Stop worrying about these,

00:09:20.078 --> 00:09:21.120
like all the money that

00:09:21.139 --> 00:09:21.860
you're throwing into it.

00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:23.640
Like you got to really dive in here.

00:09:23.941 --> 00:09:25.601
And so ever since then, it was like,

00:09:26.163 --> 00:09:27.424
it moved from do something

00:09:27.605 --> 00:09:29.168
every day to like spend as

00:09:29.248 --> 00:09:31.692
much time per day on this task as you can,

00:09:32.013 --> 00:09:33.956
because this is, this is the path.

00:09:35.018 --> 00:09:36.458
It feels like you found a

00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:37.639
problem that you thought

00:09:37.700 --> 00:09:39.041
was worthy of being solved

00:09:39.321 --> 00:09:40.741
that no one had solved yet, right?

00:09:41.022 --> 00:09:41.241
I mean,

00:09:41.601 --> 00:09:42.982
as you're describing wrapping a

00:09:43.503 --> 00:09:44.844
resistance band around your

00:09:44.864 --> 00:09:46.585
patient's head, you know,

00:09:46.605 --> 00:09:48.245
I can envision just how

00:09:48.466 --> 00:09:51.628
clunky and awkward and yet works.

00:09:51.727 --> 00:09:52.649
Not really though.

00:09:52.708 --> 00:09:53.989
I see what you're trying to do there.

00:09:54.509 --> 00:09:56.250
And now you feel this and

00:09:56.270 --> 00:09:59.432
you use smooth or frictionless, right,

00:09:59.493 --> 00:10:00.192
as the motion.

00:10:00.613 --> 00:10:01.494
And you're saying, hey,

00:10:01.573 --> 00:10:03.115
this feels like a better path

00:10:03.794 --> 00:10:04.936
to get these really

00:10:05.917 --> 00:10:07.477
meaningful movements to get

00:10:07.518 --> 00:10:08.999
these we we know when

00:10:09.019 --> 00:10:09.739
they're as you said when

00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.299
they're done correctly they

00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:12.581
can be really powerful for

00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:13.402
some people with some

00:10:13.461 --> 00:10:14.802
specific cervical issues

00:10:15.543 --> 00:10:16.663
and I feel like that thing

00:10:16.703 --> 00:10:18.085
sort of took root in your

00:10:18.125 --> 00:10:20.025
brain and kept building and

00:10:20.046 --> 00:10:21.326
saying no one's built this

00:10:21.346 --> 00:10:23.168
better mouse trap why not

00:10:23.227 --> 00:10:25.049
me why not here why not

00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:26.691
this I'm I'm curious though

00:10:28.123 --> 00:10:29.682
When that switch flipped,

00:10:29.984 --> 00:10:30.984
when you said you were

00:10:31.024 --> 00:10:31.964
hemming and hawing and you

00:10:31.984 --> 00:10:32.903
were doing a little bit,

00:10:33.344 --> 00:10:35.304
was there something that

00:10:35.725 --> 00:10:39.066
happened that made you say, hey, okay,

00:10:39.446 --> 00:10:40.645
I'm not gonna just throttle

00:10:40.686 --> 00:10:41.407
this a little bit.

00:10:41.466 --> 00:10:42.126
I'm gonna go all in.

00:10:42.147 --> 00:10:43.126
I'm really gonna push the gas.

00:10:43.147 --> 00:10:44.287
Was there anything internal

00:10:44.326 --> 00:10:45.567
or external that actually happened?

00:10:45.607 --> 00:10:46.268
Was there a moment?

00:10:48.729 --> 00:10:51.350
There was $1,000 spent on prototypes.

00:10:51.691 --> 00:10:52.971
And I didn't know if I could

00:10:53.032 --> 00:10:54.452
get it to be as smooth as I

00:10:54.513 --> 00:10:55.234
wanted it to be.

00:10:55.714 --> 00:10:56.375
That was like,

00:10:56.394 --> 00:10:58.316
I was obsessed with this

00:10:58.416 --> 00:10:59.456
frictionless feel.

00:11:00.136 --> 00:11:01.658
And a lot of the prototypes

00:11:01.717 --> 00:11:02.839
that the machinist and I

00:11:02.899 --> 00:11:05.520
had worked through were too,

00:11:07.162 --> 00:11:08.702
the friction was just too high.

00:11:08.764 --> 00:11:09.663
And I was unhappy.

00:11:10.184 --> 00:11:10.625
And I was like,

00:11:11.163 --> 00:11:12.565
George, this just doesn't work.

00:11:13.046 --> 00:11:14.366
And so I didn't know if I

00:11:14.386 --> 00:11:14.986
was going to be able to

00:11:15.027 --> 00:11:16.807
make the product what I wanted it to be.

00:11:16.948 --> 00:11:18.769
So that was like a big worry for me.

00:11:19.409 --> 00:11:20.991
And then over time we got

00:11:21.072 --> 00:11:22.052
smarter and you know,

00:11:22.072 --> 00:11:23.052
the rowing machines that

00:11:23.072 --> 00:11:23.894
you put your butt on,

00:11:23.913 --> 00:11:26.155
then that's the movement part.

00:11:26.735 --> 00:11:27.836
Those are super smooth.

00:11:27.897 --> 00:11:28.798
And I took note of that.

00:11:29.217 --> 00:11:31.099
And so I stole that kind of design.

00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:32.801
And with that, you know,

00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:34.822
probably six months into prototyping,

00:11:35.143 --> 00:11:36.663
I finally had it like

00:11:36.803 --> 00:11:38.284
feeling like I wanted it to.

00:11:38.904 --> 00:11:40.486
And from there I spent,

00:11:41.067 --> 00:11:43.148
a good bit of money to make five of them.

00:11:43.648 --> 00:11:45.347
And with those five prototypes,

00:11:45.408 --> 00:11:46.448
I shipped them out to all

00:11:46.469 --> 00:11:48.788
of my PT friends from grad

00:11:48.808 --> 00:11:50.490
school who are all treating

00:11:50.529 --> 00:11:51.529
in clinics at this point.

00:11:52.070 --> 00:11:53.791
And by the grace of God,

00:11:53.811 --> 00:11:54.630
they all said yes.

00:11:54.831 --> 00:11:56.272
And they all put it in their clinic,

00:11:56.591 --> 00:11:57.572
which is kind of crazy.

00:11:57.912 --> 00:11:58.831
This is a prototype.

00:11:59.552 --> 00:12:00.633
It was certainly functional.

00:12:00.712 --> 00:12:02.113
It didn't look super pretty,

00:12:02.153 --> 00:12:03.094
but it did the job.

00:12:03.793 --> 00:12:05.333
And so they're all out in

00:12:05.374 --> 00:12:06.654
the world now in the clinic

00:12:06.815 --> 00:12:07.894
potentially being used.

00:12:08.595 --> 00:12:09.816
Maybe a month goes by and

00:12:09.855 --> 00:12:12.017
then my friend's patient says, hey,

00:12:12.518 --> 00:12:13.437
I want to buy one of these.

00:12:13.477 --> 00:12:15.339
This has made a huge difference for me.

00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:17.201
And I was like, OK, all right.

00:12:17.441 --> 00:12:18.422
All right.

00:12:18.442 --> 00:12:18.682
Come on.

00:12:19.062 --> 00:12:19.601
Come on, Scott.

00:12:20.442 --> 00:12:21.023
Sack up here.

00:12:21.082 --> 00:12:22.764
You know, something.

00:12:23.365 --> 00:12:24.365
And so, you know,

00:12:24.466 --> 00:12:26.006
I would say once I had it

00:12:26.147 --> 00:12:27.567
feeling like I needed it to,

00:12:28.067 --> 00:12:29.649
that was a huge confidence

00:12:29.688 --> 00:12:30.369
booster for me.

00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:32.490
And so I really leaned in after that.

00:12:33.111 --> 00:12:34.712
We're doing these sort of in

00:12:34.732 --> 00:12:35.993
the flavor or in the style

00:12:36.033 --> 00:12:38.455
of NPR's great show, How I Built This,

00:12:38.534 --> 00:12:38.674
right?

00:12:38.695 --> 00:12:39.855
It's just a simple concept

00:12:39.894 --> 00:12:41.015
going backwards and talking

00:12:41.035 --> 00:12:41.535
about something that

00:12:41.556 --> 00:12:42.615
actually came to fruition.

00:12:43.057 --> 00:12:44.297
And the parallels that I see,

00:12:44.317 --> 00:12:44.956
because I've listened to

00:12:44.996 --> 00:12:45.898
most of those episodes,

00:12:46.677 --> 00:12:47.798
in terms of organizations

00:12:47.839 --> 00:12:48.899
that have become successful,

00:12:48.918 --> 00:12:49.919
and this is a great lesson,

00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:52.900
is you weren't focused on

00:12:52.921 --> 00:12:54.221
the thing 10 miles from now.

00:12:54.761 --> 00:12:56.282
You were focused on product.

00:12:56.501 --> 00:12:56.881
You were like,

00:12:57.243 --> 00:12:59.523
I need this to feel a

00:12:59.623 --> 00:13:01.923
certain way or I can't move on.

00:13:02.465 --> 00:13:05.105
I'm sure you could have had it okay.

00:13:05.385 --> 00:13:06.206
You could have had it work.

00:13:06.245 --> 00:13:06.686
It works.

00:13:07.025 --> 00:13:08.027
Look, look, look, it works.

00:13:08.427 --> 00:13:09.586
But you were obsessed with

00:13:09.667 --> 00:13:10.567
not just working.

00:13:10.687 --> 00:13:12.528
It needed to work to a level

00:13:12.869 --> 00:13:14.149
that you were okay with

00:13:14.389 --> 00:13:15.350
putting out into the world.

00:13:15.389 --> 00:13:16.389
Sounds like you're saying that.

00:13:17.014 --> 00:13:17.293
Yes.

00:13:17.394 --> 00:13:19.655
And I have like this really

00:13:19.855 --> 00:13:21.076
sensitive personality.

00:13:21.116 --> 00:13:22.398
Like I really feel things

00:13:22.477 --> 00:13:23.899
like when I interact with

00:13:23.979 --> 00:13:25.440
something or interact with a person,

00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:26.921
I always have a feeling around that.

00:13:27.581 --> 00:13:30.884
And every little thing that I'm feeling,

00:13:30.943 --> 00:13:31.904
my neck is feeling,

00:13:31.945 --> 00:13:33.326
my head is feeling like

00:13:33.346 --> 00:13:34.307
that goes into this,

00:13:34.746 --> 00:13:36.128
this book for me where like,

00:13:36.548 --> 00:13:39.210
I'm assuming everyone else

00:13:39.309 --> 00:13:40.791
feels the same way when they're doing it.

00:13:41.130 --> 00:13:42.131
So why would anybody

00:13:42.192 --> 00:13:43.231
recommend the product once

00:13:43.251 --> 00:13:44.033
they bought it if it

00:13:44.072 --> 00:13:46.173
doesn't feel exactly as good as it could?

00:13:46.695 --> 00:13:49.115
So I really couldn't sign

00:13:49.235 --> 00:13:51.758
off on it from a moral standpoint,

00:13:51.817 --> 00:13:53.678
from putting my own effort

00:13:53.719 --> 00:13:54.940
behind something until it

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:56.441
felt as good as I needed it to.

00:13:56.996 --> 00:13:59.339
Now from the business side,

00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:01.481
you don't get a second shot.

00:14:01.741 --> 00:14:03.043
You don't really usually get

00:14:03.062 --> 00:14:04.224
a second bite at the apple.

00:14:04.264 --> 00:14:05.546
What I mean by that is even

00:14:05.586 --> 00:14:06.246
if you would send it out to

00:14:06.307 --> 00:14:07.727
five friends who really

00:14:07.768 --> 00:14:10.359
liked you and it felt –

00:14:10.359 --> 00:14:12.721
B minus or B plus good, right?

00:14:13.682 --> 00:14:14.643
You coming back to them in

00:14:14.743 --> 00:14:16.424
six months or a year and saying, hey,

00:14:16.445 --> 00:14:17.304
I got it a little better.

00:14:17.345 --> 00:14:18.986
It's still hard, right?

00:14:19.307 --> 00:14:21.068
So it sounds as if you said, listen,

00:14:21.089 --> 00:14:22.350
I'm going to get one bite

00:14:22.370 --> 00:14:23.110
at the apple here.

00:14:23.530 --> 00:14:24.912
I'm going to make it my best shot.

00:14:25.153 --> 00:14:26.514
And you didn't stop until

00:14:26.533 --> 00:14:27.595
you had it where you were like,

00:14:27.934 --> 00:14:28.956
I could stamp my name on

00:14:28.995 --> 00:14:30.918
this and stand behind how it feels.

00:14:31.485 --> 00:14:33.985
And it's funny because they

00:14:34.005 --> 00:14:35.105
always say you wouldn't

00:14:35.145 --> 00:14:36.265
call your own baby ugly.

00:14:36.706 --> 00:14:38.547
And I really did have those glasses on.

00:14:38.966 --> 00:14:40.667
I had a tough time looking

00:14:40.726 --> 00:14:42.847
at the product because I

00:14:42.888 --> 00:14:43.768
thought it looked beautiful.

00:14:43.927 --> 00:14:45.009
I thought it was amazing

00:14:45.048 --> 00:14:46.509
because it came from nothing.

00:14:46.548 --> 00:14:48.509
And it was good enough for me.

00:14:49.029 --> 00:14:50.210
I cared about the feel way

00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:51.610
more than I cared about how it looked.

00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:53.410
So once the feel was there

00:14:53.750 --> 00:14:55.110
and the functionality was there,

00:14:55.130 --> 00:14:55.691
you could change the

00:14:55.711 --> 00:14:57.572
resistance bands in a matter of seconds.

00:14:58.072 --> 00:14:59.472
The smoothness was on point.

00:14:59.592 --> 00:15:00.712
It was really level.

00:15:00.793 --> 00:15:02.033
So it didn't click and clang

00:15:02.073 --> 00:15:02.693
as you used it.

00:15:03.073 --> 00:15:04.654
So all those check boxes

00:15:04.715 --> 00:15:06.375
were checked and then it

00:15:06.416 --> 00:15:08.076
didn't look that great, but I didn't even,

00:15:08.496 --> 00:15:09.236
my glasses were on.

00:15:09.277 --> 00:15:11.278
I had no idea that my baby was ugly.

00:15:11.717 --> 00:15:12.658
And so it was out in the

00:15:12.697 --> 00:15:14.438
world being used and people liked it.

00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:15.700
But then like,

00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:17.581
I would get some feedback like, yeah,

00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:18.321
now you should make this

00:15:18.380 --> 00:15:19.400
into a finished product.

00:15:19.681 --> 00:15:20.402
And I was like, Ooh,

00:15:21.022 --> 00:15:21.221
Ouch,

00:15:21.721 --> 00:15:22.842
I didn't know that that didn't look

00:15:22.883 --> 00:15:23.602
like a finished product.

00:15:23.903 --> 00:15:25.004
But then like I was able to

00:15:25.043 --> 00:15:26.845
kind of reframe and be like, okay,

00:15:27.225 --> 00:15:28.426
now I have to go on another

00:15:28.485 --> 00:15:30.606
marathon because I have the design there.

00:15:31.006 --> 00:15:31.807
Now I have to make it

00:15:31.866 --> 00:15:32.827
aesthetically pleasing,

00:15:32.868 --> 00:15:33.988
which is a huge deal.

00:15:34.168 --> 00:15:35.288
You know, you wish it weren't,

00:15:35.369 --> 00:15:36.990
but it really does matter.

00:15:37.350 --> 00:15:38.451
And this feels like another

00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:39.451
skill set that's not

00:15:39.532 --> 00:15:40.793
necessarily traditionally

00:15:40.894 --> 00:15:42.696
taught in physical therapy school.

00:15:42.816 --> 00:15:43.035
Right.

00:15:43.076 --> 00:15:45.057
So but it is, isn't it?

00:15:45.158 --> 00:15:47.100
Because we take a class that

00:15:47.139 --> 00:15:49.562
we put two words together all the time,

00:15:49.602 --> 00:15:51.884
which is anatomy and physiology.

00:15:52.847 --> 00:15:54.427
form and function.

00:15:54.749 --> 00:15:56.149
So sounds like focused on

00:15:56.229 --> 00:15:58.590
physiology and function first.

00:15:59.110 --> 00:16:00.029
And then you went back to the anatomy.

00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:01.049
You're like, okay, how do I,

00:16:01.610 --> 00:16:02.671
how do I wrap the skin on

00:16:02.691 --> 00:16:03.551
this and make it look,

00:16:03.831 --> 00:16:05.071
make it look decent,

00:16:05.691 --> 00:16:08.011
make it look as good as it feels,

00:16:08.052 --> 00:16:09.331
make it look as good as it

00:16:09.572 --> 00:16:11.192
functions and make it look

00:16:11.293 --> 00:16:12.832
like someone should take a

00:16:12.873 --> 00:16:14.774
few steps closer and try this out.

00:16:14.813 --> 00:16:15.774
Because once they do,

00:16:16.313 --> 00:16:17.533
you already have that problem solved.

00:16:17.553 --> 00:16:19.754
You had feel and function solved.

00:16:20.780 --> 00:16:21.503
I'm glad you say that.

00:16:21.543 --> 00:16:22.625
I've never really thought

00:16:22.645 --> 00:16:23.326
about it like that,

00:16:23.908 --> 00:16:25.152
but you're totally right.

00:16:25.211 --> 00:16:26.576
That's exactly how it played out.

00:16:27.537 --> 00:16:29.177
Were there any chaos moments?

00:16:29.498 --> 00:16:31.038
I mean, there had to be, right?

00:16:31.058 --> 00:16:32.778
Because everything can't go as smoothly.

00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.460
See what I did there?

00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:39.542
Can't go as smoothly as maybe a script.

00:16:39.581 --> 00:16:41.783
There's always forks in the road.

00:16:42.163 --> 00:16:43.504
There's chances for you to

00:16:43.683 --> 00:16:44.945
make a left and go become

00:16:44.985 --> 00:16:46.004
successful and make a right.

00:16:46.605 --> 00:16:48.066
And it could be a disaster.

00:16:48.405 --> 00:16:50.027
What were some of those moments for you,

00:16:50.086 --> 00:16:51.227
if any, that, hey,

00:16:51.288 --> 00:16:52.427
this is when I hit a wall

00:16:52.488 --> 00:16:54.288
or hit a bump or hit a fork in the road?

00:16:55.591 --> 00:16:56.731
One story popped into my

00:16:56.772 --> 00:16:58.835
head that I haven't shared before.

00:16:59.176 --> 00:17:00.577
I think it's kind of close

00:17:00.597 --> 00:17:01.379
to what you're asking for,

00:17:01.418 --> 00:17:02.299
but I want to share it anyway,

00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:03.581
because it's funny for me.

00:17:04.041 --> 00:17:05.304
I always think about it by myself.

00:17:05.845 --> 00:17:08.689
So I was in the throes of prototyping.

00:17:09.028 --> 00:17:10.131
And one of the things that

00:17:10.612 --> 00:17:12.354
some of my classmates had said is, hey,

00:17:13.134 --> 00:17:14.435
Sometimes the base of it

00:17:14.496 --> 00:17:15.516
slides on the table.

00:17:15.776 --> 00:17:17.376
So, you know, the glider works great,

00:17:17.596 --> 00:17:18.557
but sometimes the base

00:17:18.616 --> 00:17:20.038
slides and we don't want we

00:17:20.057 --> 00:17:21.057
want it to be more grippy

00:17:21.137 --> 00:17:21.939
on the treatment table.

00:17:22.439 --> 00:17:22.679
OK,

00:17:23.019 --> 00:17:24.839
so I'm looking through different ways

00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.460
to make it tackier on the bottom.

00:17:26.820 --> 00:17:28.340
Do I use different rubber feet?

00:17:28.421 --> 00:17:28.580
Like,

00:17:28.641 --> 00:17:30.261
how do we make this so it doesn't slide?

00:17:30.781 --> 00:17:32.143
And so I'm prototyping

00:17:32.202 --> 00:17:33.663
around and I'm working with

00:17:33.803 --> 00:17:35.903
a guy in Westchester, PA,

00:17:35.963 --> 00:17:37.884
which is like 45 minutes from my house.

00:17:38.365 --> 00:17:40.645
And he's doing all the plastic design,

00:17:40.665 --> 00:17:42.287
which we were 3D printing at the time.

00:17:43.047 --> 00:17:43.948
And so I got a couple of

00:17:43.988 --> 00:17:45.489
prototypes and I'm going to

00:17:45.528 --> 00:17:47.069
go drive over to his house

00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:49.230
to look through what he's

00:17:49.270 --> 00:17:51.153
done up on computer animated design.

00:17:51.173 --> 00:17:54.515
And I throw a couple next

00:17:54.555 --> 00:17:56.596
levels to bring a couple of

00:17:56.616 --> 00:17:57.917
next levels to show him.

00:17:58.518 --> 00:17:59.499
And I'm like probably

00:17:59.598 --> 00:18:01.039
halfway there on the drive.

00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:02.300
And some guy.

00:18:03.710 --> 00:18:05.250
I don't know what kind of accent he had.

00:18:05.611 --> 00:18:06.611
We're from Philadelphia,

00:18:06.671 --> 00:18:08.172
so I don't think this was a

00:18:08.211 --> 00:18:09.152
Philadelphia accent.

00:18:09.592 --> 00:18:11.573
But I'm driving, and I had my window down.

00:18:11.613 --> 00:18:11.932
He's like,

00:18:12.073 --> 00:18:14.173
some guy pulls up alongside me driving.

00:18:14.193 --> 00:18:16.134
He's like, what's on your roof?

00:18:16.855 --> 00:18:17.955
What's on your roof?

00:18:18.336 --> 00:18:19.556
And I was like, what?

00:18:20.195 --> 00:18:20.676
Excuse me?

00:18:21.156 --> 00:18:21.317
Oh, no.

00:18:21.356 --> 00:18:22.057
Your roof.

00:18:22.497 --> 00:18:22.997
Your roof.

00:18:23.037 --> 00:18:24.057
And then he motions and

00:18:24.137 --> 00:18:25.417
points to the car roof.

00:18:25.498 --> 00:18:26.419
And I was like, oh, geez.

00:18:26.439 --> 00:18:26.618
Yeah.

00:18:27.298 --> 00:18:27.940
I have no idea.

00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:29.480
And I looked up and I

00:18:29.701 --> 00:18:30.961
actually I reached out and

00:18:31.021 --> 00:18:32.762
I felt the next level,

00:18:32.923 --> 00:18:34.223
a prototype sitting on the

00:18:34.263 --> 00:18:36.445
roof and it hadn't moved.

00:18:36.806 --> 00:18:37.707
It had been dry.

00:18:37.727 --> 00:18:39.307
I've been driving for 30 minutes.

00:18:39.628 --> 00:18:40.028
Oh, right.

00:18:40.088 --> 00:18:40.890
About this, you know,

00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:42.371
this new grippiness of the

00:18:42.411 --> 00:18:43.571
of the bottom of the device.

00:18:44.132 --> 00:18:47.213
And so that that confirmed that, you know,

00:18:47.253 --> 00:18:48.174
through all that chaos,

00:18:48.595 --> 00:18:49.635
it confirmed that I had

00:18:49.675 --> 00:18:51.557
gotten a grippier system on the bottom.

00:18:52.137 --> 00:18:52.699
So, I mean,

00:18:52.739 --> 00:18:54.339
it was just like so ridiculous

00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.101
that it hadn't came off so far.

00:18:56.161 --> 00:18:56.602
And yeah.

00:18:57.342 --> 00:18:57.442
Yeah.

00:18:57.462 --> 00:18:59.066
Necessity is the mother of invention.

00:18:59.106 --> 00:19:00.529
And sometimes, um,

00:19:00.810 --> 00:19:02.775
solutions present themselves to you,

00:19:02.795 --> 00:19:03.696
not the other way around.

00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:05.141
Yeah, I know it got,

00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.365
it got tested in the wild and it worked.

00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:10.640
How'd you validate the market?

00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:11.019
I mean,

00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.181
it sounds as if you reached out to

00:19:12.221 --> 00:19:12.840
five friends.

00:19:13.221 --> 00:19:14.300
I mean, you know,

00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:15.941
I feel like the first validation, right?

00:19:15.961 --> 00:19:16.682
It's from the parents,

00:19:16.701 --> 00:19:17.321
but that doesn't count

00:19:17.342 --> 00:19:18.082
because they're your parents.

00:19:18.701 --> 00:19:19.422
I feel like the first

00:19:19.461 --> 00:19:20.602
validation was your neighbor.

00:19:20.622 --> 00:19:21.742
You talked about says, Hey man,

00:19:21.762 --> 00:19:22.202
I like this.

00:19:22.603 --> 00:19:23.143
I want to buy it.

00:19:23.163 --> 00:19:24.202
And then you sent to your

00:19:24.242 --> 00:19:26.144
friends and your friends, um,

00:19:26.703 --> 00:19:27.804
patients wanted to buy it.

00:19:28.144 --> 00:19:29.304
But how did you, I mean, that's,

00:19:29.403 --> 00:19:30.305
that's friends and that's

00:19:30.565 --> 00:19:31.605
one level removed.

00:19:32.065 --> 00:19:33.307
How'd you sit down and say,

00:19:33.327 --> 00:19:34.189
I'm going to validate the

00:19:34.229 --> 00:19:34.951
market for this?

00:19:35.050 --> 00:19:35.873
What would you do?

00:19:35.893 --> 00:19:37.496
What can someone learn from

00:19:37.516 --> 00:19:38.698
this to initially sort of

00:19:38.738 --> 00:19:40.421
test the waters and figure

00:19:40.541 --> 00:19:42.645
out when you really put gas in this thing,

00:19:42.885 --> 00:19:44.128
which way am I going to point this boat?

00:19:44.675 --> 00:19:46.917
Yeah.

00:19:47.117 --> 00:19:49.038
I don't know if there was one moment.

00:19:49.179 --> 00:19:51.681
I mean, uh, one of the guys that my,

00:19:52.122 --> 00:19:53.823
one of my friends, I sent a device to, uh,

00:19:54.643 --> 00:19:56.003
after a while I was like, Hey,

00:19:56.023 --> 00:19:57.085
do you want to ask your

00:19:57.164 --> 00:19:58.385
clinic if he wants to buy this?

00:19:58.425 --> 00:19:59.287
Cause I was really strapped

00:19:59.307 --> 00:20:00.186
for cash and I needed to

00:20:00.227 --> 00:20:01.347
get that prototype back to

00:20:01.387 --> 00:20:02.409
send it to another clinic.

00:20:03.089 --> 00:20:04.570
And my friend said, Hey, uh,

00:20:04.611 --> 00:20:05.451
he doesn't want to give it back.

00:20:05.471 --> 00:20:07.732
Well, can you, can, can he buy it?

00:20:07.752 --> 00:20:08.733
I was like, Oh,

00:20:09.193 --> 00:20:10.295
the clinic wants to keep it.

00:20:11.055 --> 00:20:11.596
Interesting.

00:20:12.296 --> 00:20:12.997
So, uh,

00:20:13.775 --> 00:20:15.481
Initially, I always thought

00:20:16.198 --> 00:20:18.358
the clinic would be our primary market.

00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.280
So the clinicians would get

00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:21.641
to use this for their patients.

00:20:22.321 --> 00:20:23.682
You know, they're, you know, whatever,

00:20:23.762 --> 00:20:24.202
three, four,

00:20:24.262 --> 00:20:25.384
five patients come in with

00:20:25.443 --> 00:20:26.423
neck pain probably every

00:20:26.443 --> 00:20:27.464
day to most clinics.

00:20:27.865 --> 00:20:28.605
So I thought there would be

00:20:28.625 --> 00:20:29.826
a pretty strong market there.

00:20:29.885 --> 00:20:30.707
And I think obviously

00:20:30.727 --> 00:20:31.547
they're gonna be doing some

00:20:31.586 --> 00:20:33.127
neck strengthening, some neck stretching.

00:20:33.528 --> 00:20:35.609
So that was my focus, selling to clinics.

00:20:35.910 --> 00:20:36.810
And we had already sold a

00:20:36.871 --> 00:20:37.971
couple to different clinics.

00:20:38.351 --> 00:20:39.471
So that was enough for me.

00:20:39.592 --> 00:20:39.811
You know,

00:20:39.832 --> 00:20:42.134
I had felt that pain of doing

00:20:42.173 --> 00:20:43.394
resistance bands in the clinic.

00:20:44.194 --> 00:20:45.275
A couple of clinics had bought it.

00:20:45.715 --> 00:20:46.935
That was really all I needed.

00:20:47.836 --> 00:20:50.758
What was awesome was after about,

00:20:50.778 --> 00:20:51.518
I don't know,

00:20:51.698 --> 00:20:52.837
two or three months where we

00:20:52.897 --> 00:20:54.638
are on the market with our

00:20:54.699 --> 00:20:55.680
flagship product,

00:20:56.140 --> 00:20:57.240
we called it the next level

00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:58.201
device because I didn't

00:20:58.221 --> 00:20:59.461
think about marketing it at all.

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:01.602
And I called it the device, you know,

00:21:01.642 --> 00:21:03.242
and it was just silly to

00:21:03.262 --> 00:21:03.982
look back at that.

00:21:04.502 --> 00:21:07.365
And then some patients started to buy it.

00:21:07.685 --> 00:21:08.346
And Jimmy, this was $900.

00:21:09.426 --> 00:21:10.407
These were all made in

00:21:11.127 --> 00:21:13.630
Philadelphia by hand, by myself.

00:21:14.651 --> 00:21:16.092
My friend would 3D print the

00:21:16.112 --> 00:21:16.712
different parts.

00:21:17.232 --> 00:21:17.972
I'd put them together.

00:21:18.034 --> 00:21:20.035
We did a metal working place nearby.

00:21:20.055 --> 00:21:21.536
That's where we get the metal parts.

00:21:22.037 --> 00:21:24.598
It was really surprising

00:21:24.638 --> 00:21:25.598
that it could all come together.

00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.340
But it was over $200 for a

00:21:28.381 --> 00:21:29.382
device for me to make.

00:21:29.903 --> 00:21:30.702
And so we sold them for like $900.

00:21:32.511 --> 00:21:34.496
And some patients were buying it at $900.

00:21:36.394 --> 00:21:38.055
which is like, I kind of like,

00:21:39.316 --> 00:21:41.297
I gave me some pause, of course, because,

00:21:41.317 --> 00:21:43.878
you know, who is this really helping?

00:21:44.318 --> 00:21:44.818
Like, yeah,

00:21:44.858 --> 00:21:46.160
it's helping the clinician in

00:21:46.220 --> 00:21:47.280
that they have an easier

00:21:47.361 --> 00:21:48.761
time doing neck rehab.

00:21:49.061 --> 00:21:50.362
Like they have a better tool

00:21:50.542 --> 00:21:51.623
for their toolbox.

00:21:52.124 --> 00:21:56.425
But the emotional receiver of this,

00:21:56.546 --> 00:21:56.945
you know,

00:21:57.007 --> 00:21:59.268
the person who truly benefits is

00:21:59.307 --> 00:22:00.689
the patient who has neck

00:22:00.709 --> 00:22:02.349
pain and maybe they don't after.

00:22:02.609 --> 00:22:04.131
Because that's what we found was like,

00:22:04.590 --> 00:22:05.692
There was something missing

00:22:05.711 --> 00:22:07.093
where it is gravity eliminated.

00:22:07.173 --> 00:22:08.794
Neck strengthening really

00:22:08.913 --> 00:22:10.595
seemed to get patients over a hump.

00:22:11.015 --> 00:22:12.175
So then they'd want one for home.

00:22:12.875 --> 00:22:15.498
And eventually I realized, wait, you know,

00:22:15.518 --> 00:22:18.138
there are 70,000 clinics in the US,

00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:19.900
but how many people with

00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:22.642
neck issues are there in the world?

00:22:23.162 --> 00:22:23.923
And they're already

00:22:24.022 --> 00:22:26.023
signaling to me that they want this.

00:22:26.263 --> 00:22:27.744
Of course, most couldn't buy it at $900,

00:22:27.744 --> 00:22:28.085
but some were.

00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:30.863
And so eventually,

00:22:31.222 --> 00:22:32.585
probably about two years of

00:22:32.724 --> 00:22:34.067
trying to stay in the clinic,

00:22:34.508 --> 00:22:36.430
I wanted to keep focusing on B2B,

00:22:36.830 --> 00:22:37.672
but I just kept getting

00:22:37.771 --> 00:22:41.718
pulled towards B2C, B2C, B2C, D2C,

00:22:41.778 --> 00:22:42.659
direct to consumer.

00:22:43.233 --> 00:22:46.336
And my PT roots even, like, you know,

00:22:46.415 --> 00:22:47.336
being a clinician and

00:22:47.355 --> 00:22:48.876
wanting to serve other clinicians,

00:22:48.896 --> 00:22:50.577
like there was a lot of

00:22:50.657 --> 00:22:53.239
momentum and inertia keeping me on the,

00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.259
on like, you know, presenting to clinics,

00:22:55.401 --> 00:22:56.941
going to CSM,

00:22:56.961 --> 00:22:58.122
like all that stuff was home.

00:22:58.561 --> 00:23:00.603
It was really easy to talk to clinicians.

00:23:01.003 --> 00:23:01.943
And I was scared that I

00:23:01.983 --> 00:23:03.265
would be judged if we moved

00:23:03.285 --> 00:23:04.605
this product to a D to C

00:23:04.665 --> 00:23:06.326
product to the consumer world,

00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:08.887
because I thought PTs would be like, oh,

00:23:09.387 --> 00:23:10.808
it's not going to substitute for,

00:23:11.269 --> 00:23:12.690
for all of the different-

00:23:12.710 --> 00:23:13.990
Therapy or whatever, yeah.

00:23:14.111 --> 00:23:15.612
Yeah, you can't get manual therapy.

00:23:15.892 --> 00:23:16.972
And I really thought that

00:23:17.012 --> 00:23:18.374
was going to be a big issue

00:23:18.413 --> 00:23:20.634
and something I'd have to

00:23:20.674 --> 00:23:21.415
lose sleep over.

00:23:21.635 --> 00:23:21.996
Sure.

00:23:22.076 --> 00:23:24.178
And once I got over that, and sure,

00:23:24.218 --> 00:23:25.519
I'm sure there's some PTs

00:23:25.538 --> 00:23:26.239
that think like that.

00:23:26.259 --> 00:23:26.798
Sure, sure, sure.

00:23:26.898 --> 00:23:27.579
Once I got over that,

00:23:28.560 --> 00:23:29.461
things have been coasting.

00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:31.823
But what was the response?

00:23:32.522 --> 00:23:33.784
What did other PTs say?

00:23:33.824 --> 00:23:36.006
Because I feel like your

00:23:36.105 --> 00:23:37.246
audience for this product

00:23:37.946 --> 00:23:39.788
isn't a clinic or a consumer.

00:23:40.167 --> 00:23:40.828
The answer is both.

00:23:41.749 --> 00:23:41.950
Yes.

00:23:43.109 --> 00:23:44.590
Yes, it is both.

00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:45.311
And that's like,

00:23:45.571 --> 00:23:46.593
it's both a blessing and a

00:23:46.633 --> 00:23:47.712
curse because I don't know

00:23:47.732 --> 00:23:48.314
where to focus.

00:23:48.594 --> 00:23:49.714
Every single day I'm pulled

00:23:49.755 --> 00:23:50.575
in both directions.

00:23:51.036 --> 00:23:51.435
And, you know,

00:23:51.996 --> 00:23:53.958
business 101 is pick your

00:23:53.998 --> 00:23:55.519
market and stick to it and

00:23:55.618 --> 00:23:57.200
drill down on that, double down on it,

00:23:57.259 --> 00:23:58.180
then triple down on that.

00:23:58.601 --> 00:23:59.580
And so it's been a real

00:23:59.661 --> 00:24:01.563
challenge for me is where to focus.

00:24:02.022 --> 00:24:02.864
We found that,

00:24:04.125 --> 00:24:05.807
speaking of what did clinicians think,

00:24:06.448 --> 00:24:08.049
clinicians started asking me, hey,

00:24:08.069 --> 00:24:08.991
can you make a home model?

00:24:09.291 --> 00:24:10.333
My patients really want one,

00:24:10.353 --> 00:24:12.435
but they can't afford the pro model.

00:24:12.796 --> 00:24:13.336
Can you make one?

00:24:13.777 --> 00:24:15.618
And so that was a nice kick

00:24:15.638 --> 00:24:16.881
in the butt to make a home

00:24:16.921 --> 00:24:17.461
model for them.

00:24:18.041 --> 00:24:20.505
And so really it is this

00:24:20.644 --> 00:24:22.106
hybrid business now where

00:24:22.166 --> 00:24:24.470
if we put a device into the clinic, then,

00:24:24.509 --> 00:24:24.809
you know,

00:24:25.190 --> 00:24:26.531
hundreds of PT patients are

00:24:26.551 --> 00:24:27.673
going to get to use it and

00:24:27.692 --> 00:24:29.355
then someone to buy it for home.

00:24:29.756 --> 00:24:31.518
So it's a beautiful model if

00:24:31.538 --> 00:24:32.178
you think about it.

00:24:32.198 --> 00:24:32.739
It's the ultimate.

00:24:32.739 --> 00:24:34.339
So the test drive model, right?

00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.440
Hey, check this thing out.

00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:35.980
Oh my gosh.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.420
How could, you know,

00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:37.580
if you'd like to have this at home,

00:24:38.020 --> 00:24:38.300
I mean,

00:24:38.340 --> 00:24:39.922
you start putting QR codes on

00:24:40.021 --> 00:24:40.801
right on the side of it.

00:24:40.821 --> 00:24:41.981
Like if you'd like to have yours,

00:24:42.021 --> 00:24:43.542
the clinician can just go, Hey,

00:24:43.623 --> 00:24:46.243
right here is my personal QR code.

00:24:46.263 --> 00:24:47.763
And maybe I get an affiliate

00:24:47.844 --> 00:24:48.684
bump from that too.

00:24:49.545 --> 00:24:50.525
And now you're not in

00:24:50.665 --> 00:24:51.465
opposition of other

00:24:51.486 --> 00:24:53.326
clinicians saying this is

00:24:53.386 --> 00:24:54.686
in competition with me or

00:24:54.727 --> 00:24:55.448
not as good as me.

00:24:55.867 --> 00:24:56.667
Now you're both rowing in

00:24:56.708 --> 00:24:58.548
the same direction, which is, hey,

00:24:58.568 --> 00:25:00.390
seeing a physical therapist is fantastic.

00:25:00.809 --> 00:25:02.210
This is one thing you could

00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:03.431
and should be doing at home.

00:25:04.030 --> 00:25:05.152
I find it akin to giving

00:25:05.211 --> 00:25:06.152
someone some resistance

00:25:06.211 --> 00:25:07.393
bands or suggesting some

00:25:07.432 --> 00:25:08.432
weights or giving them a

00:25:08.492 --> 00:25:10.034
pulley or something to do

00:25:10.094 --> 00:25:11.094
at home because we know

00:25:11.193 --> 00:25:12.914
doing it one or two or

00:25:12.954 --> 00:25:14.496
three times a week with us is good.

00:25:15.236 --> 00:25:16.817
but we want them to do it more.

00:25:16.936 --> 00:25:17.917
And this allows you to do

00:25:17.958 --> 00:25:19.880
that clunky movement that wasn't right,

00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.820
but is powerful if it's done right,

00:25:22.281 --> 00:25:23.262
to do it more.

00:25:24.123 --> 00:25:25.443
Yeah, exactly.

00:25:25.924 --> 00:25:27.526
Yeah, couldn't have said it better myself.

00:25:28.105 --> 00:25:29.827
Yeah, I like the test drive.

00:25:30.548 --> 00:25:30.808
Yeah.

00:25:30.868 --> 00:25:32.450
That's a beautiful way to think about it.

00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:34.832
It's show better than tell.

00:25:34.892 --> 00:25:35.092
I mean,

00:25:35.112 --> 00:25:36.834
your website's great and it can

00:25:36.894 --> 00:25:37.894
show off a lot of things

00:25:37.953 --> 00:25:38.855
and you can do some great

00:25:38.934 --> 00:25:39.736
marketing videos.

00:25:39.776 --> 00:25:41.436
It's a very visual and moving product.

00:25:42.377 --> 00:25:43.358
But someone putting their

00:25:43.419 --> 00:25:44.759
head down there and doing

00:25:44.859 --> 00:25:46.721
that with the guidance of a

00:25:46.741 --> 00:25:47.643
skilled physical therapist,

00:25:47.722 --> 00:25:49.424
even better in a clinic environment,

00:25:49.484 --> 00:25:49.904
and say, hey,

00:25:49.944 --> 00:25:51.145
if I show you how to do this properly,

00:25:51.666 --> 00:25:52.548
you could take this out and

00:25:52.587 --> 00:25:53.729
put a couple miles on it in

00:25:53.749 --> 00:25:54.630
the next couple of weeks.

00:25:55.130 --> 00:25:55.990
I think this could be a good

00:25:56.070 --> 00:25:57.873
fit for you that feels like

00:25:57.972 --> 00:26:00.734
a really great intersection of technology,

00:26:00.895 --> 00:26:02.176
business, and clinical care.

00:26:02.217 --> 00:26:02.396
I mean,

00:26:02.416 --> 00:26:03.938
I don't know that the three come

00:26:03.978 --> 00:26:05.500
together any better than that.

00:26:06.211 --> 00:26:07.472
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:26:07.653 --> 00:26:10.797
And, you know, as PTs at heart, you know,

00:26:10.817 --> 00:26:12.959
I was at my first trade

00:26:12.999 --> 00:26:14.601
show ever was it was at CSM

00:26:14.961 --> 00:26:15.842
and I was talking to a

00:26:15.902 --> 00:26:17.183
bunch of sales guys,

00:26:17.223 --> 00:26:20.287
like seasoned salespeople, not PTs.

00:26:20.807 --> 00:26:22.308
They were like, yeah, you PTs,

00:26:22.328 --> 00:26:23.430
you got the Peace Corps gene.

00:26:24.030 --> 00:26:25.132
And I was like, I want to give it away.

00:26:25.152 --> 00:26:26.792
I was like, yeah, I do.

00:26:26.813 --> 00:26:29.354
I hate, I hate selling things.

00:26:29.453 --> 00:26:30.094
I just want to, yeah,

00:26:30.114 --> 00:26:30.994
I just want to give it away.

00:26:31.075 --> 00:26:31.835
Exactly right.

00:26:32.234 --> 00:26:33.316
This Peace Corps gene is

00:26:33.355 --> 00:26:34.737
inside me and I can't get rid of it.

00:26:35.317 --> 00:26:35.436
And,

00:26:35.916 --> 00:26:37.157
and so that's something I've battled

00:26:37.178 --> 00:26:37.917
with the whole time.

00:26:37.979 --> 00:26:38.239
And, you know,

00:26:38.439 --> 00:26:39.839
the way that that represents

00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:41.319
itself now is like, you know,

00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:42.601
we have a 60 day return

00:26:42.641 --> 00:26:44.301
policy where I want someone

00:26:44.321 --> 00:26:45.162
that's bought it to like

00:26:45.261 --> 00:26:46.542
use it for two months

00:26:46.803 --> 00:26:47.743
before they have to decide

00:26:47.784 --> 00:26:48.523
if they want to keep it.

00:26:48.903 --> 00:26:49.644
If they don't want to keep it,

00:26:49.664 --> 00:26:50.644
it's a full refund.

00:26:50.664 --> 00:26:51.865
We give them a return label, like

00:26:52.212 --> 00:26:53.374
Like that kind of stuff is

00:26:53.413 --> 00:26:55.654
where the PT in me still shows up.

00:26:56.415 --> 00:26:57.415
Obviously if they're in the clinic,

00:26:57.435 --> 00:26:58.797
they get to try it as much as they want.

00:26:59.237 --> 00:26:59.817
So yeah.

00:27:01.965 --> 00:27:02.586
Yeah,

00:27:02.846 --> 00:27:05.087
it's funny how a PT becomes a

00:27:05.127 --> 00:27:05.769
business person,

00:27:05.788 --> 00:27:07.108
but you can't fully let all

00:27:07.589 --> 00:27:08.871
the Peace Corps gene out, you know?

00:27:09.151 --> 00:27:09.351
Yeah.

00:27:09.691 --> 00:27:09.790
Well,

00:27:09.810 --> 00:27:10.531
you've got to be able to support

00:27:10.551 --> 00:27:10.852
yourself.

00:27:10.892 --> 00:27:11.071
I mean,

00:27:11.112 --> 00:27:13.093
I think most people understand what

00:27:13.133 --> 00:27:13.753
a business is.

00:27:13.913 --> 00:27:15.634
Hey, listen, if it costs you X to make it,

00:27:15.815 --> 00:27:17.036
I expect to pay more for

00:27:17.056 --> 00:27:18.636
that because otherwise you

00:27:18.676 --> 00:27:19.577
can't be in business.

00:27:19.678 --> 00:27:20.739
But, you know,

00:27:20.798 --> 00:27:22.038
me coming to PT from a

00:27:22.078 --> 00:27:23.760
second career in media and communications,

00:27:24.181 --> 00:27:25.541
I definitely saw that Peace Corps gene.

00:27:25.721 --> 00:27:27.363
I would look around at clinicians.

00:27:27.403 --> 00:27:27.903
I would look around at

00:27:27.942 --> 00:27:29.924
associations or organizations and say,

00:27:30.464 --> 00:27:31.865
you have X value.

00:27:32.527 --> 00:27:33.667
you you have to be able to

00:27:33.688 --> 00:27:34.607
do if you if you allow

00:27:34.729 --> 00:27:35.789
access or you sell that

00:27:36.289 --> 00:27:37.891
it's okay to make money so

00:27:37.911 --> 00:27:38.971
you can support yourself

00:27:39.472 --> 00:27:41.054
now what's not okay is to

00:27:41.114 --> 00:27:42.695
gouge someone but the great

00:27:42.715 --> 00:27:43.496
part of a free market

00:27:43.537 --> 00:27:44.396
system is if you said this

00:27:44.416 --> 00:27:45.097
thing's going to be three

00:27:45.117 --> 00:27:46.900
thousand dollars the market

00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:48.141
would decide that the juice

00:27:48.181 --> 00:27:49.241
wasn't worth the squeeze

00:27:49.821 --> 00:27:51.564
and someone deciding hey if

00:27:51.624 --> 00:27:52.744
this thing is worth 900

00:27:52.744 --> 00:27:54.425
bucks if someone's in

00:27:54.566 --> 00:27:55.928
really bad pain and this

00:27:56.008 --> 00:27:57.769
makes them feel better

00:27:58.589 --> 00:28:00.529
They're saying the pain is

00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:02.570
worth more than $900 if

00:28:02.611 --> 00:28:03.671
this makes it go away

00:28:04.050 --> 00:28:05.671
forever or for a short amount of time,

00:28:05.711 --> 00:28:07.231
or I believe in this thing

00:28:07.551 --> 00:28:08.811
to help me get out of pain.

00:28:09.332 --> 00:28:10.392
That's a powerful thing.

00:28:10.412 --> 00:28:12.192
That's a powerful intersection to be in.

00:28:12.231 --> 00:28:14.732
I hope more PTs understand this.

00:28:15.792 --> 00:28:16.053
Yes,

00:28:16.252 --> 00:28:18.753
and it certainly didn't come overnight.

00:28:18.834 --> 00:28:20.634
It has to take time for sure.

00:28:21.153 --> 00:28:22.874
But as you put on your

00:28:22.913 --> 00:28:24.194
business person hat and you

00:28:24.234 --> 00:28:25.315
look at the numbers more

00:28:25.355 --> 00:28:25.894
and more and more,

00:28:26.363 --> 00:28:28.184
You realize how things need to shape up.

00:28:28.486 --> 00:28:30.147
There's just no way around

00:28:30.728 --> 00:28:32.109
the fact that you have to run a business.

00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:33.151
You have to make a profit.

00:28:33.171 --> 00:28:34.272
You have to be able to pay yourself.

00:28:34.692 --> 00:28:38.897
I remember I met with a mentor now,

00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:41.040
and he was just someone who

00:28:41.080 --> 00:28:42.061
was willing to talk to me.

00:28:42.102 --> 00:28:43.463
He was a local entrepreneur.

00:28:44.244 --> 00:28:47.067
PT, sorry, not a PT, local entrepreneur.

00:28:47.227 --> 00:28:48.166
He had invented a light,

00:28:48.346 --> 00:28:49.688
like a light cure system,

00:28:49.928 --> 00:28:50.949
like the grade four laser.

00:28:51.769 --> 00:28:53.210
And I was like, Brian,

00:28:53.230 --> 00:28:54.309
this is really exciting.

00:28:54.369 --> 00:28:55.330
I think I have a business.

00:28:55.351 --> 00:28:56.250
This is like three years ago.

00:28:56.431 --> 00:28:57.192
I think I have a business.

00:28:57.211 --> 00:28:58.132
We're going to be profitable

00:28:58.291 --> 00:28:59.333
for the first time this year.

00:28:59.553 --> 00:29:01.233
I was so used to losing money every year.

00:29:01.673 --> 00:29:02.473
And he was like, oh yeah,

00:29:02.574 --> 00:29:03.434
are you paying yourself?

00:29:03.454 --> 00:29:05.236
I was like, no, why?

00:29:05.855 --> 00:29:06.936
He's like, you don't have a business.

00:29:07.176 --> 00:29:08.238
You don't have a business.

00:29:08.317 --> 00:29:10.519
I was like, oh, oh,

00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:11.420
I have to be able to pay

00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:12.980
myself and make a profit

00:29:13.020 --> 00:29:13.902
for it to be a business.

00:29:14.382 --> 00:29:15.682
It's like these like super

00:29:15.923 --> 00:29:17.305
obvious moments where like

00:29:17.644 --> 00:29:18.986
you take off your PC hat

00:29:19.046 --> 00:29:20.507
and you learn what the real world's like,

00:29:20.547 --> 00:29:20.787
you know?

00:29:21.167 --> 00:29:21.327
Yep.

00:29:22.188 --> 00:29:22.428
Yeah.

00:29:22.669 --> 00:29:23.249
It's simple.

00:29:23.950 --> 00:29:24.750
And that's what I want these

00:29:24.809 --> 00:29:26.030
episodes to look at, right?

00:29:26.751 --> 00:29:28.113
Is Scott had an idea,

00:29:28.712 --> 00:29:30.674
tested it out a little bit, found someone,

00:29:30.714 --> 00:29:31.976
made it, and now it's a thing.

00:29:32.195 --> 00:29:33.376
It's simple to describe that.

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:35.539
but it's not easy because

00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:36.980
there's other steps along the way.

00:29:37.340 --> 00:29:38.221
And there's things that trip

00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:39.902
you up and there's things that, you know,

00:29:39.981 --> 00:29:41.663
patenting or business or

00:29:41.682 --> 00:29:42.722
setting up a corporation or

00:29:42.762 --> 00:29:43.442
how do I market it?

00:29:43.462 --> 00:29:45.584
Or what do I even call the damn thing?

00:29:45.604 --> 00:29:47.084
Even when I have next level,

00:29:47.144 --> 00:29:48.224
is it next level device?

00:29:48.984 --> 00:29:50.586
So how did it grow from next level?

00:29:50.945 --> 00:29:52.685
Sort of your pro model, as you alluded to.

00:29:52.705 --> 00:29:54.307
So now as a take home model,

00:29:54.866 --> 00:29:55.988
What else is in the lineup?

00:29:56.048 --> 00:29:57.429
And then as much as you want to tell me,

00:29:57.449 --> 00:29:58.068
because we want to make

00:29:58.088 --> 00:29:58.930
sure if there's things down

00:29:58.950 --> 00:29:59.410
the line that you don't

00:29:59.430 --> 00:29:59.971
want people to know,

00:30:00.151 --> 00:30:01.131
don't I always tell people,

00:30:01.191 --> 00:30:02.132
don't tell Jimmy that Jimmy

00:30:02.152 --> 00:30:02.612
doesn't want to have a

00:30:02.632 --> 00:30:03.413
secret because I'll wind up

00:30:03.452 --> 00:30:04.913
saying it without not on purpose.

00:30:05.453 --> 00:30:07.276
But how did things progress?

00:30:07.715 --> 00:30:08.757
And then what do you think's

00:30:08.797 --> 00:30:09.237
in the future?

00:30:10.397 --> 00:30:10.637
Yes.

00:30:10.718 --> 00:30:11.178
I mean,

00:30:11.439 --> 00:30:13.859
the one of the hallmark moments in

00:30:14.221 --> 00:30:15.441
our company's history was

00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:16.721
when we got featured on

00:30:16.801 --> 00:30:18.604
Netflix on the quarterback

00:30:18.644 --> 00:30:20.724
documentary and episode

00:30:20.825 --> 00:30:23.186
three minute eight, if you want to watch.

00:30:23.682 --> 00:30:26.403
Patrick Mahomes is using the next level.

00:30:26.544 --> 00:30:28.443
And I'm like, this is surreal.

00:30:28.564 --> 00:30:30.564
My friend's friend texted my

00:30:30.663 --> 00:30:31.784
friend right when the

00:30:31.884 --> 00:30:32.684
documentary came out.

00:30:32.704 --> 00:30:32.964
He's like,

00:30:33.065 --> 00:30:34.285
isn't that your friend's device?

00:30:34.704 --> 00:30:35.845
And then my friend texted me

00:30:35.865 --> 00:30:39.105
and I was like, oh my God, that's crazy.

00:30:39.445 --> 00:30:40.046
And so, you know,

00:30:40.086 --> 00:30:41.226
that was a big moment for us.

00:30:41.346 --> 00:30:42.846
Obviously we blew that up as

00:30:42.885 --> 00:30:44.446
much as we could on social media.

00:30:45.247 --> 00:30:46.366
I would say like that was a

00:30:46.567 --> 00:30:48.426
really validating moment

00:30:48.446 --> 00:30:50.508
because up to that time, you know,

00:30:50.528 --> 00:30:51.248
we had sold everything.

00:30:51.607 --> 00:30:53.250
dozens to pro sports teams

00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:55.070
but never before could we

00:30:55.211 --> 00:30:56.893
show like hey look at the

00:30:56.952 --> 00:30:59.394
top athletes using this on

00:30:59.515 --> 00:31:01.217
netflix like like that's a

00:31:01.277 --> 00:31:02.397
totally different scenario

00:31:02.637 --> 00:31:03.759
than to say yeah the eagles

00:31:03.778 --> 00:31:04.900
were the first pro sports

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:06.161
team to buy it and they

00:31:06.181 --> 00:31:07.182
were the actually our first

00:31:07.362 --> 00:31:08.442
first official customer

00:31:08.803 --> 00:31:10.124
like that that means

00:31:10.183 --> 00:31:10.825
something there's some

00:31:10.845 --> 00:31:11.705
weight to that to say it

00:31:11.766 --> 00:31:12.866
out loud but I have nothing

00:31:12.906 --> 00:31:13.886
to show for it you know

00:31:13.906 --> 00:31:15.108
what I mean but man that

00:31:15.169 --> 00:31:18.672
netflix feature was huge so with that um

00:31:19.949 --> 00:31:21.269
You know, I realized we needed some money.

00:31:21.410 --> 00:31:23.250
We needed money bad to

00:31:23.330 --> 00:31:27.833
develop real production quality devices,

00:31:28.272 --> 00:31:28.452
you know,

00:31:28.492 --> 00:31:29.894
where you use injection molded

00:31:29.953 --> 00:31:32.234
plastic instead of 3D printed plastic.

00:31:32.595 --> 00:31:33.736
Like a lot of things had to

00:31:33.796 --> 00:31:34.855
change and there's a lot of

00:31:34.915 --> 00:31:35.736
upfront capital,

00:31:35.876 --> 00:31:37.856
a lot of upfront money

00:31:37.958 --> 00:31:39.337
needed to make that happen.

00:31:39.657 --> 00:31:42.058
So a big moment was when I decided, hey,

00:31:42.098 --> 00:31:42.960
we need to raise some money.

00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:44.560
And so for six months,

00:31:44.901 --> 00:31:45.902
I changed from being a

00:31:45.961 --> 00:31:47.282
salesman trying to sell

00:31:47.303 --> 00:31:48.983
devices to being a salesman

00:31:49.044 --> 00:31:50.345
for the company and saying, hey,

00:31:50.365 --> 00:31:51.065
look what we've done.

00:31:51.465 --> 00:31:52.826
We think we can do way better.

00:31:53.386 --> 00:31:54.488
We just need some more money.

00:31:55.008 --> 00:31:56.509
And so I raised almost a

00:31:56.548 --> 00:31:57.730
half a million dollars over

00:31:57.809 --> 00:31:59.651
six months around this idea.

00:31:59.671 --> 00:32:01.672
I don't think we even had

00:32:01.852 --> 00:32:02.673
homes at that point.

00:32:02.752 --> 00:32:03.232
No, we hadn't.

00:32:03.634 --> 00:32:04.213
So, you know,

00:32:04.233 --> 00:32:05.214
we were raising on the fact

00:32:05.255 --> 00:32:06.635
that we were in a few hundred clinics.

00:32:07.076 --> 00:32:09.076
We've sold to several pro sports teams.

00:32:09.376 --> 00:32:10.478
And there's this giant

00:32:10.577 --> 00:32:12.519
market for people with neck issues.

00:32:13.579 --> 00:32:15.240
And so once we had the money,

00:32:15.260 --> 00:32:16.201
then we could go.

00:32:16.441 --> 00:32:18.061
And I got connected with a

00:32:18.122 --> 00:32:20.702
really good manufacturer who, you know,

00:32:20.742 --> 00:32:21.022
Jimmy,

00:32:21.644 --> 00:32:23.064
I was introduced to them through

00:32:23.144 --> 00:32:24.865
your current employer, Vestibular First.

00:32:25.265 --> 00:32:25.704
Oh, yeah.

00:32:25.944 --> 00:32:27.046
That changed everything

00:32:27.205 --> 00:32:27.905
because the right

00:32:27.965 --> 00:32:29.207
manufacturer changes

00:32:29.507 --> 00:32:30.886
everything in the world of hardware.

00:32:31.347 --> 00:32:32.387
Otherwise, goodness.

00:32:32.407 --> 00:32:32.988
And what did it do?

00:32:33.028 --> 00:32:35.388
Did it bring costs down in, you know,

00:32:35.449 --> 00:32:37.690
decreased speed, increased speed,

00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:39.250
decreased wait time, things like that?

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:41.060
It was the skill and the

00:32:41.201 --> 00:32:43.502
quality of their ability to

00:32:43.782 --> 00:32:45.523
manufacture the device well

00:32:45.943 --> 00:32:48.266
and consistently and at a lower price.

00:32:48.807 --> 00:32:50.208
So like all of that together,

00:32:50.268 --> 00:32:51.327
they're just the pros.

00:32:51.648 --> 00:32:51.848
You know,

00:32:51.909 --> 00:32:53.710
it's like going to see a seasoned

00:32:53.789 --> 00:32:55.310
clinician and you tell them

00:32:55.330 --> 00:32:56.271
your problem and they know

00:32:56.372 --> 00:32:57.532
right away what's going on.

00:32:57.613 --> 00:32:59.213
It's like that warm feeling

00:32:59.253 --> 00:33:00.595
you get when you find the right person.

00:33:00.615 --> 00:33:01.455
You're in the right spot.

00:33:01.796 --> 00:33:02.676
I'm in the right spot.

00:33:02.957 --> 00:33:03.738
So that was huge.

00:33:04.458 --> 00:33:04.857
And, you know,

00:33:04.877 --> 00:33:06.138
we put a bunch of money

00:33:06.179 --> 00:33:07.159
towards developing the

00:33:07.199 --> 00:33:09.779
molds and buying thousands of devices,

00:33:09.819 --> 00:33:11.040
which is so scary.

00:33:11.080 --> 00:33:13.281
You know, like if this doesn't work,

00:33:14.261 --> 00:33:14.801
you're going to have a

00:33:14.842 --> 00:33:16.002
garage full of things that

00:33:16.022 --> 00:33:16.803
are going to remind you of

00:33:16.903 --> 00:33:17.722
failure every day.

00:33:17.803 --> 00:33:18.503
Yeah.

00:33:18.604 --> 00:33:19.183
A warehouse.

00:33:19.223 --> 00:33:20.525
So we filled up an entire

00:33:20.585 --> 00:33:21.404
shipping container,

00:33:21.744 --> 00:33:23.105
like one of those giant 40

00:33:23.105 --> 00:33:24.425
foot long containers.

00:33:24.786 --> 00:33:25.967
We filled up an entire one

00:33:26.007 --> 00:33:27.727
of those before we launched

00:33:27.847 --> 00:33:28.508
our devices online.

00:33:29.327 --> 00:33:31.191
Uh, what's that four months ago,

00:33:31.471 --> 00:33:32.071
April 10th,

00:33:32.152 --> 00:33:33.513
we launched all our new products,

00:33:33.554 --> 00:33:35.276
which is one new home model.

00:33:35.375 --> 00:33:36.436
So the next level glide,

00:33:36.817 --> 00:33:38.459
then we launched a new professional model,

00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:39.560
the next little glide pro.

00:33:40.167 --> 00:33:41.248
And with the pro model,

00:33:41.268 --> 00:33:42.328
we have a wall mount so

00:33:42.348 --> 00:33:43.528
that clinicians can use it

00:33:43.568 --> 00:33:45.170
in standing and sitting as well.

00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:46.490
Because a lot of clinicians

00:33:46.529 --> 00:33:47.671
were giving us the feedback

00:33:47.730 --> 00:33:48.971
over the years that, hey,

00:33:49.151 --> 00:33:49.971
we'd love to use this in

00:33:50.031 --> 00:33:51.392
standing and sitting as well.

00:33:51.912 --> 00:33:53.173
So we listened to all that.

00:33:53.593 --> 00:33:54.393
We need a home model.

00:33:54.532 --> 00:33:55.913
We need to be able to use it in standing,

00:33:55.953 --> 00:33:57.413
sitting, and that's what we did.

00:33:57.773 --> 00:33:59.434
And so it's been four months

00:33:59.494 --> 00:34:01.796
of Jimmy actually having a business.

00:34:02.296 --> 00:34:03.576
I didn't want to pay myself.

00:34:03.877 --> 00:34:05.239
I was I was scared to death

00:34:05.318 --> 00:34:06.740
of paying myself before the

00:34:06.780 --> 00:34:07.761
revenue supported it.

00:34:08.523 --> 00:34:09.784
So I raised on the fact that

00:34:09.824 --> 00:34:11.224
I wouldn't I wouldn't take

00:34:11.284 --> 00:34:12.586
any money of any investor

00:34:12.606 --> 00:34:13.728
money towards my salary.

00:34:14.610 --> 00:34:16.112
So I didn't make any money

00:34:16.152 --> 00:34:17.552
for like a year and a half

00:34:17.672 --> 00:34:18.393
because I was out of the

00:34:18.414 --> 00:34:19.713
clinic because the

00:34:19.733 --> 00:34:21.215
investors wanted me full time on this.

00:34:22.315 --> 00:34:25.057
I was at the parents house, really,

00:34:25.077 --> 00:34:25.438
you know,

00:34:25.538 --> 00:34:27.018
really committed to this whole

00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:27.619
thing working.

00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:29.541
And so we're four months

00:34:29.601 --> 00:34:31.081
into it actually working.

00:34:31.282 --> 00:34:32.083
You know, we're making money.

00:34:32.822 --> 00:34:34.625
We're selling devices every single day.

00:34:35.065 --> 00:34:35.987
I'm paying myself.

00:34:36.507 --> 00:34:37.668
And it feels like, you know,

00:34:37.708 --> 00:34:38.690
knock on wood moment,

00:34:38.730 --> 00:34:39.610
like this has actually

00:34:39.650 --> 00:34:41.172
worked and it's actually

00:34:41.432 --> 00:34:42.434
been worth all the effort

00:34:42.474 --> 00:34:44.516
and the reviews on the website.

00:34:44.556 --> 00:34:45.358
Like we'll get,

00:34:45.498 --> 00:34:46.259
we'll get a couple of

00:34:46.278 --> 00:34:47.199
reviews every day now.

00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:50.081
that, that is where, you know, like you've,

00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:51.300
you've put the effort in

00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:52.300
the right place where it's

00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:54.181
this person who I've never met.

00:34:54.842 --> 00:34:56.461
They bought a device and

00:34:56.581 --> 00:34:57.521
with the training that we

00:34:57.541 --> 00:34:59.503
provided included with each device,

00:34:59.963 --> 00:35:00.623
they were able to help

00:35:00.663 --> 00:35:01.744
themselves from their house.

00:35:02.204 --> 00:35:02.463
And they,

00:35:02.503 --> 00:35:04.063
maybe they had been to PT clinics.

00:35:04.244 --> 00:35:06.065
Maybe they had had a

00:35:06.184 --> 00:35:07.605
injection surgery before

00:35:07.625 --> 00:35:08.405
and they'll write all this

00:35:08.445 --> 00:35:09.045
in the reviews.

00:35:09.085 --> 00:35:10.425
And it's just amazing to see

00:35:10.465 --> 00:35:11.626
what can be done from like,

00:35:12.025 --> 00:35:12.746
from a distance.

00:35:12.985 --> 00:35:13.365
So it's like,

00:35:13.425 --> 00:35:14.186
it's like really like I

00:35:14.246 --> 00:35:15.766
scaled my physical therapy hands.

00:35:17.161 --> 00:35:19.284
Do those reviews finally

00:35:19.364 --> 00:35:20.686
help that feeling that you

00:35:20.768 --> 00:35:21.789
didn't want to have in your

00:35:21.809 --> 00:35:23.231
stomach in terms of

00:35:25.793 --> 00:35:26.994
making sure this was about

00:35:27.034 --> 00:35:28.255
helping people like now

00:35:28.315 --> 00:35:29.356
you're hearing it from the

00:35:29.396 --> 00:35:30.257
people that your hands

00:35:30.277 --> 00:35:31.018
would have never as you

00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:32.260
just mentioned you would

00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:33.181
have never heard from this

00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.603
person you know idaho but

00:35:35.623 --> 00:35:36.704
there's someone in idaho

00:35:37.003 --> 00:35:37.905
who feels a little better

00:35:37.945 --> 00:35:38.545
today than they did

00:35:38.585 --> 00:35:39.806
yesterday because you had

00:35:39.847 --> 00:35:40.748
the idea and you went

00:35:40.768 --> 00:35:41.728
through some knots in your

00:35:41.789 --> 00:35:43.650
stomach and some sleepless

00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:44.931
nights I imagine and some

00:35:44.952 --> 00:35:46.393
putting your money where

00:35:46.413 --> 00:35:48.335
your mouth is and so does that

00:35:49.625 --> 00:35:50.545
Is that the real, I mean,

00:35:50.706 --> 00:35:51.586
of course getting paid and

00:35:51.626 --> 00:35:52.367
creating a business and a

00:35:52.387 --> 00:35:53.047
life for yourself and

00:35:53.068 --> 00:35:54.148
flexibility is fantastic,

00:35:54.608 --> 00:35:56.110
but how much of a reward is that?

00:35:56.130 --> 00:35:57.552
I mean, that's just gotta feel fantastic.

00:35:58.833 --> 00:36:00.094
You connect dots for me that

00:36:00.273 --> 00:36:01.255
I'm unable to connect.

00:36:01.335 --> 00:36:02.155
So thank you, Jimmy.

00:36:02.255 --> 00:36:03.335
I'm really happy we're talking.

00:36:04.456 --> 00:36:06.119
The first like month or so

00:36:06.398 --> 00:36:07.219
we weren't really getting

00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:09.420
product reviews.

00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:11.063
The email system just wasn't

00:36:11.503 --> 00:36:12.903
functioning properly and it

00:36:12.943 --> 00:36:14.324
was really stressing me out

00:36:14.505 --> 00:36:16.547
because I had no idea how my patient,

00:36:16.807 --> 00:36:18.548
my quote unquote, my patients were doing.

00:36:19.333 --> 00:36:20.153
If I'm in the clinic,

00:36:20.193 --> 00:36:21.114
I know exactly how they're

00:36:21.134 --> 00:36:22.574
doing right when they walk in the door.

00:36:22.994 --> 00:36:25.056
But I had no idea if I was helping them.

00:36:25.277 --> 00:36:27.777
And so now everything's moving well.

00:36:28.277 --> 00:36:30.079
And every time I get that review,

00:36:30.139 --> 00:36:31.619
it's like when you just

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.121
discharge a patient and it

00:36:33.380 --> 00:36:34.242
just went swimmingly.

00:36:34.581 --> 00:36:35.983
It's like that moment over

00:36:36.023 --> 00:36:36.922
and over and over again.

00:36:36.943 --> 00:36:38.704
It does feel incredible.

00:36:38.844 --> 00:36:40.804
And it makes me feel like I

00:36:40.824 --> 00:36:43.126
deserve the revenue that was generated.

00:36:44.012 --> 00:36:44.313
Good.

00:36:44.675 --> 00:36:46.885
And that's what I think PT is.

00:36:47.105 --> 00:36:48.731
I think that's the Peace Corps gene.

00:36:51.282 --> 00:36:53.003
But what I think the Peace

00:36:53.023 --> 00:36:54.884
Corps gene does is we don't

00:36:54.923 --> 00:36:56.204
want to take more than we're giving.

00:36:56.224 --> 00:36:57.224
It's like the giving tree.

00:36:57.824 --> 00:36:58.286
It's like we're only

00:36:58.306 --> 00:37:00.867
supposed to take one apple, right?

00:37:01.286 --> 00:37:03.447
Not two because one is what

00:37:03.467 --> 00:37:05.688
we decided is even and worth it.

00:37:06.289 --> 00:37:07.510
But when you can feel that

00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:09.650
the juice is worth a squeeze, like, hey,

00:37:09.911 --> 00:37:12.952
I gave $2,000 worth of value,

00:37:13.052 --> 00:37:14.632
but I charged you $500.

00:37:14.632 --> 00:37:15.112
That's okay.

00:37:15.434 --> 00:37:15.773
That's good.

00:37:16.715 --> 00:37:18.315
You can't do zero, right?

00:37:18.576 --> 00:37:19.697
Well, you can't do zero forever.

00:37:19.976 --> 00:37:20.757
And this doesn't mean you

00:37:20.797 --> 00:37:21.677
can't do something.

00:37:21.697 --> 00:37:23.820
Because I had a funny social

00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:24.619
media interaction with

00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.362
someone when I said, you know,

00:37:27.501 --> 00:37:28.623
the famous cliche is,

00:37:28.882 --> 00:37:29.664
if you're good at something,

00:37:29.684 --> 00:37:30.643
never do it for free.

00:37:30.784 --> 00:37:31.625
And someone was like, well,

00:37:31.644 --> 00:37:32.565
does that mean you can't do

00:37:32.606 --> 00:37:33.306
pro bono work?

00:37:33.365 --> 00:37:33.786
And I said,

00:37:34.166 --> 00:37:35.547
I feel very rewarded when I do

00:37:35.568 --> 00:37:36.208
pro bono work.

00:37:36.547 --> 00:37:38.289
I get paid highly when I do

00:37:38.329 --> 00:37:40.090
something with a business

00:37:40.630 --> 00:37:41.731
or a mission trip.

00:37:42.132 --> 00:37:42.431
Trust me,

00:37:42.492 --> 00:37:43.793
that cliche of when you go on a

00:37:43.833 --> 00:37:44.653
mission trip and you get

00:37:44.713 --> 00:37:46.474
more than you gave, so cliche.

00:37:47.434 --> 00:37:48.516
it's true though like I

00:37:48.576 --> 00:37:49.976
really did feel like I got

00:37:50.016 --> 00:37:52.077
a whole lot more and I hope

00:37:52.117 --> 00:37:53.217
that pete I hope people

00:37:53.257 --> 00:37:54.077
listening to this or

00:37:54.137 --> 00:37:55.237
watching this are taking

00:37:55.257 --> 00:37:57.157
away like oh if that's the

00:37:57.237 --> 00:37:59.418
thing limiting us because I

00:37:59.438 --> 00:37:59.998
think there's a lot of

00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:01.699
untapped potential in our

00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:02.980
profession I know that

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:03.940
there is I know that there

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.980
is because we're going to

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.081
have five episodes this week only on that

00:38:09.007 --> 00:38:10.429
I want them to get over that thing.

00:38:10.449 --> 00:38:10.648
Cause I,

00:38:10.889 --> 00:38:13.010
I know that it holds a lot of people up.

00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.532
It does charging money for some,

00:38:15.652 --> 00:38:16.994
even for clinical care.

00:38:17.934 --> 00:38:18.315
We just,

00:38:18.815 --> 00:38:20.056
we want to be able to pay our bills,

00:38:20.117 --> 00:38:22.378
but sliding someone a bill or saying,

00:38:22.418 --> 00:38:23.398
this is what you owe us.

00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:25.860
Like it's, I mean, again,

00:38:26.121 --> 00:38:27.222
I'm like half a PT, right?

00:38:27.242 --> 00:38:28.262
Cause I came from media and

00:38:28.302 --> 00:38:30.063
then became a PT still hurts me.

00:38:30.264 --> 00:38:31.744
And I'm only half a PT, right?

00:38:32.686 --> 00:38:33.586
We got to get over that

00:38:33.626 --> 00:38:34.827
because what we can do with

00:38:34.887 --> 00:38:36.489
a product or our binds or

00:38:36.528 --> 00:38:37.769
our hands or our insights,

00:38:38.050 --> 00:38:38.911
it's terribly powerful.

00:38:39.934 --> 00:38:40.954
It's really powerful.

00:38:41.074 --> 00:38:43.076
And that's what I've been trying to,

00:38:43.096 --> 00:38:43.835
you know,

00:38:44.056 --> 00:38:46.237
as the little platform I have has grown,

00:38:46.777 --> 00:38:47.918
is I've been trying to

00:38:48.557 --> 00:38:51.039
signal and show PTs like, hey,

00:38:51.378 --> 00:38:53.759
you now have a superpower.

00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:55.260
You can heal people's pain.

00:38:55.940 --> 00:38:57.400
That's a really big deal.

00:38:57.581 --> 00:38:57.800
You know,

00:38:57.820 --> 00:38:59.240
you can identify the problem and

00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.141
you can fix the problem, you know, eight,

00:39:01.181 --> 00:39:02.621
nine times out of 10.

00:39:02.621 --> 00:39:04.103
That's really valuable.

00:39:04.302 --> 00:39:04.724
And it does,

00:39:04.744 --> 00:39:06.224
that value doesn't need to be

00:39:06.264 --> 00:39:07.726
provided only in the clinic.

00:39:08.085 --> 00:39:09.847
You can do that in several different ways.

00:39:10.088 --> 00:39:10.427
Correct.

00:39:10.507 --> 00:39:11.829
And so how can you use your

00:39:11.869 --> 00:39:13.670
creativity to use this

00:39:13.771 --> 00:39:15.652
superpower that you now have acquired?

00:39:16.132 --> 00:39:17.233
I really believe that that

00:39:17.293 --> 00:39:18.375
is like so valuable.

00:39:18.735 --> 00:39:19.554
When you tell someone you're

00:39:19.576 --> 00:39:21.597
a physical therapist out, you know,

00:39:21.737 --> 00:39:22.677
at a party or whatever,

00:39:23.038 --> 00:39:24.259
they'll always be like, Oh,

00:39:24.298 --> 00:39:25.119
my shoulder or whatever,

00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:27.581
because they know you have a power

00:39:27.981 --> 00:39:28.742
that they don't have.

00:39:28.762 --> 00:39:30.728
They know you have the power.

00:39:31.208 --> 00:39:33.454
Where I think the disconnect sometimes is,

00:39:33.494 --> 00:39:33.916
and of course,

00:39:34.076 --> 00:39:35.679
I look at things through my lens,

00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:36.943
because I'm a communications guy.

00:39:38.068 --> 00:39:40.070
The next step is really important.

00:39:40.110 --> 00:39:41.590
So we're at a party and you say, hey,

00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:42.771
I'm Scott, I'm a PT.

00:39:42.811 --> 00:39:44.132
And I go, oh man, my shoulder.

00:39:44.552 --> 00:39:46.094
The next sentence or the

00:39:46.233 --> 00:39:48.454
next thing that you do to communicate,

00:39:48.474 --> 00:39:50.657
hey, help me understand more about this,

00:39:50.757 --> 00:39:52.717
to lead them to a solution,

00:39:53.018 --> 00:39:54.518
whether it's a product or a

00:39:54.579 --> 00:39:57.019
video or one-on-one treatment.

00:39:57.161 --> 00:39:58.001
That's the thing,

00:39:58.240 --> 00:39:59.422
is when we expect people to

00:39:59.501 --> 00:40:00.563
understand the distance

00:40:00.603 --> 00:40:02.884
between what they know and what we know.

00:40:02.903 --> 00:40:04.224
You have to recognize what

00:40:04.264 --> 00:40:06.025
they know and what they don't know.

00:40:06.795 --> 00:40:09.818
and then tease out how do I lead you to,

00:40:10.297 --> 00:40:11.918
and this doesn't mean, you know,

00:40:11.938 --> 00:40:14.581
I know it sounds bad, selling something,

00:40:15.481 --> 00:40:17.164
but change selling to just communicate.

00:40:17.804 --> 00:40:18.605
Because ultimately,

00:40:18.864 --> 00:40:20.045
we might make suggestions,

00:40:20.686 --> 00:40:21.766
but they make decisions.

00:40:22.047 --> 00:40:22.967
And if you've suggested

00:40:23.028 --> 00:40:23.789
something and they've

00:40:23.829 --> 00:40:25.731
decided that's a path I want to go on,

00:40:26.351 --> 00:40:27.211
who are we to say no?

00:40:27.751 --> 00:40:29.414
That's exactly why we went to school.

00:40:30.275 --> 00:40:31.195
So you mentioned something a

00:40:31.235 --> 00:40:32.536
second ago about having a platform.

00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:34.650
And I'm sure having the

00:40:34.690 --> 00:40:35.672
success that you've had,

00:40:36.172 --> 00:40:38.333
you get questions from PTs

00:40:38.554 --> 00:40:39.693
or other people in and out

00:40:39.733 --> 00:40:40.375
of the profession.

00:40:41.155 --> 00:40:43.456
Hey, maybe they're sheepishly.

00:40:43.936 --> 00:40:46.239
So I sort of have an idea too.

00:40:46.338 --> 00:40:47.619
And back at the napkin.

00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:50.101
So is there any advice?

00:40:50.181 --> 00:40:52.543
I don't want to get too specific,

00:40:52.563 --> 00:40:53.864
but is there universal

00:40:53.903 --> 00:40:55.105
advice that you might give

00:40:55.144 --> 00:40:56.045
to someone who's like,

00:40:56.476 --> 00:40:58.838
Hey, I sort of, I got this feeling too.

00:40:58.878 --> 00:41:00.201
Your story resonated with me.

00:41:01.021 --> 00:41:02.202
What do you sort of say to people?

00:41:02.222 --> 00:41:03.184
Are there one or two pieces

00:41:03.204 --> 00:41:04.045
of advice you usually share?

00:41:05.019 --> 00:41:06.340
It happens way more than I

00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:07.501
ever anticipated.

00:41:07.521 --> 00:41:10.742
There are a lot of PTs with ideas, a lot.

00:41:11.001 --> 00:41:12.483
And some of them reach out.

00:41:13.063 --> 00:41:14.822
And the first thing I always

00:41:14.862 --> 00:41:16.143
tell them is exactly what

00:41:16.184 --> 00:41:17.164
my mentor told me,

00:41:17.324 --> 00:41:19.005
who was a PT and inventor

00:41:19.025 --> 00:41:20.425
that I met in PT school.

00:41:21.365 --> 00:41:22.365
He said, Scott,

00:41:22.405 --> 00:41:24.387
it's going to hurt twice as

00:41:24.427 --> 00:41:25.447
much as you think it's going to.

00:41:25.907 --> 00:41:27.007
It's going to cost twice as

00:41:27.068 --> 00:41:28.148
much as you think it's going to.

00:41:28.168 --> 00:41:29.487
And it's going to take twice

00:41:29.547 --> 00:41:30.989
as long as you think it's going to.

00:41:31.637 --> 00:41:32.938
And I just have raised the

00:41:32.998 --> 00:41:33.719
ante since then.

00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:35.621
Maybe he's better than I am, but for me,

00:41:35.681 --> 00:41:37.182
it's 10X, all that 10X.

00:41:37.463 --> 00:41:39.664
It's really, really hard.

00:41:40.244 --> 00:41:41.126
And for whatever reason,

00:41:41.146 --> 00:41:43.168
when he said that to me, that inspired me,

00:41:43.188 --> 00:41:44.369
like that got me going.

00:41:44.869 --> 00:41:46.510
I'm an athlete, like I like to compete,

00:41:46.550 --> 00:41:47.652
like that got me going.

00:41:48.152 --> 00:41:49.853
and so I i always let them

00:41:49.913 --> 00:41:51.432
know up front like this is

00:41:51.552 --> 00:41:52.713
not an easy road if you're

00:41:52.733 --> 00:41:54.434
looking for a cruiser do

00:41:54.494 --> 00:41:55.514
not do this one do

00:41:55.574 --> 00:41:57.094
something else please but

00:41:57.215 --> 00:41:58.356
you know it can be

00:41:58.476 --> 00:41:59.996
extremely rewarding and I'm

00:42:00.056 --> 00:42:01.056
lucky enough because I

00:42:01.237 --> 00:42:03.097
think timing and just you

00:42:03.117 --> 00:42:04.177
know whatever universal

00:42:04.237 --> 00:42:05.298
luck that this has worked

00:42:05.418 --> 00:42:06.518
out no one else had thought

00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:07.840
of it or had got it to

00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:09.280
market yet like things just

00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:10.860
kind of worked out neck

00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:12.061
strengthening like as an

00:42:12.141 --> 00:42:13.722
interest of clinicians and

00:42:14.322 --> 00:42:14.561
You know,

00:42:14.601 --> 00:42:16.503
the regular population was like

00:42:16.643 --> 00:42:17.224
on the rise.

00:42:17.664 --> 00:42:18.425
So there are a lot of things

00:42:18.485 --> 00:42:19.144
really worked out.

00:42:19.445 --> 00:42:20.766
So a lot of luck,

00:42:21.027 --> 00:42:22.987
a lot of luck was required anyway.

00:42:23.688 --> 00:42:27.530
So the advice I give to PTs is follow the,

00:42:27.670 --> 00:42:28.931
and I have a roadmap that

00:42:28.952 --> 00:42:30.413
I've posted about on LinkedIn a lot.

00:42:31.032 --> 00:42:31.974
And that is, you know,

00:42:32.034 --> 00:42:33.153
if you have a true idea

00:42:33.233 --> 00:42:34.394
where you think it's an invention,

00:42:34.715 --> 00:42:35.755
do a patent search.

00:42:35.815 --> 00:42:36.876
So you just go on Google

00:42:36.916 --> 00:42:38.338
patents and you search

00:42:38.378 --> 00:42:39.277
around and see if anybody

00:42:39.318 --> 00:42:40.179
else has invented it,

00:42:40.398 --> 00:42:41.780
or at least if there's a patent for it.

00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:43.240
Once you have that,

00:42:43.420 --> 00:42:44.440
like once you think you're

00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:45.762
in the clear and even if

00:42:45.802 --> 00:42:46.782
there's some gray area,

00:42:46.802 --> 00:42:48.284
I would still encourage you

00:42:48.304 --> 00:42:50.206
to go for it because you

00:42:50.246 --> 00:42:51.025
never know what happens,

00:42:51.086 --> 00:42:53.547
like still try out things.

00:42:54.228 --> 00:42:56.550
So then make a first prototype.

00:42:56.590 --> 00:42:57.652
For me, that was a skateboard.

00:42:57.731 --> 00:42:58.251
I got lucky,

00:42:58.452 --> 00:42:59.972
super easy hardware product

00:43:00.132 --> 00:43:01.153
with a similar device

00:43:01.213 --> 00:43:01.875
already on the market.

00:43:02.155 --> 00:43:03.936
So I already had that and I used it,

00:43:04.096 --> 00:43:04.876
but that's what you have to do.

00:43:04.896 --> 00:43:05.818
You have to get a prototype.

00:43:06.177 --> 00:43:06.757
And you have to learn if

00:43:06.777 --> 00:43:07.458
you're onto something

00:43:07.818 --> 00:43:08.858
because you'll learn pretty

00:43:08.938 --> 00:43:10.039
quick if you're onto something.

00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:11.780
Hopefully the prototype

00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:13.742
doesn't take a lot of money

00:43:14.021 --> 00:43:15.202
up front to make it.

00:43:15.943 --> 00:43:17.123
Usually you can get around

00:43:17.164 --> 00:43:18.483
and make an ugly thing that

00:43:18.565 --> 00:43:19.684
functions enough that

00:43:19.704 --> 00:43:20.364
you'll have an idea.

00:43:21.206 --> 00:43:22.567
So if you get that green light,

00:43:22.867 --> 00:43:24.206
then you got to put other people on it.

00:43:24.788 --> 00:43:25.688
And once you have that,

00:43:25.748 --> 00:43:26.768
like the confidence,

00:43:27.068 --> 00:43:28.048
maybe you've sold a couple

00:43:28.110 --> 00:43:29.570
ugly prototypes, that kind of thing.

00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:31.411
Once you have that confidence,

00:43:31.972 --> 00:43:34.592
then you go in an order that I did not go

00:43:36.034 --> 00:43:37.175
I learned that you have to

00:43:37.235 --> 00:43:38.617
then go to a skilled

00:43:38.918 --> 00:43:40.539
manufacturer to design the

00:43:40.579 --> 00:43:42.521
product for manufacturing

00:43:42.942 --> 00:43:43.902
and scalability.

00:43:44.724 --> 00:43:45.425
I did not do that.

00:43:45.744 --> 00:43:47.007
I went through the process

00:43:47.067 --> 00:43:48.487
of how can I make this for

00:43:48.547 --> 00:43:50.731
as cheap and as reasonably

00:43:50.871 --> 00:43:52.331
priced as I can in the

00:43:52.391 --> 00:43:53.434
Philadelphia market?

00:43:53.934 --> 00:43:57.715
And that turned out to be not super wise,

00:43:58.056 --> 00:43:59.117
but I learned a lot for

00:43:59.137 --> 00:44:00.197
those two years that it was

00:44:00.257 --> 00:44:00.777
on the market.

00:44:00.797 --> 00:44:02.677
I learned exactly what it had to do.

00:44:02.697 --> 00:44:05.079
I built every one, probably 500 by hand.

00:44:05.539 --> 00:44:06.960
I knew exactly what it had to do.

00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:08.181
So it was valuable for me.

00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:11.543
Anyway, so you get through prototyping.

00:44:12.222 --> 00:44:13.222
You think you're onto something.

00:44:13.262 --> 00:44:14.403
You get to a skilled

00:44:14.443 --> 00:44:15.684
manufacturer who can make it

00:44:17.065 --> 00:44:18.445
to the T scalably.

00:44:19.025 --> 00:44:21.007
Then after that, once you have the design,

00:44:21.027 --> 00:44:22.927
then you submit that for a

00:44:23.327 --> 00:44:24.248
patent application.

00:44:24.268 --> 00:44:25.668
So you submit the patent

00:44:25.688 --> 00:44:28.030
application to the USPTO.

00:44:28.570 --> 00:44:29.710
Some people will say you

00:44:29.750 --> 00:44:31.110
should a year before then

00:44:31.251 --> 00:44:33.012
file a provisional patent,

00:44:33.092 --> 00:44:34.311
which is buys you a year of

00:44:34.371 --> 00:44:35.612
time before you submit the

00:44:35.652 --> 00:44:37.512
final non-provisional patent.

00:44:38.594 --> 00:44:39.954
That's totally your call.

00:44:40.974 --> 00:44:42.474
But once you've submitted the patent,

00:44:42.494 --> 00:44:43.856
then you're in patent pending phase.

00:44:44.215 --> 00:44:45.255
that is exactly where you

00:44:45.275 --> 00:44:46.697
want to be because then you

00:44:46.737 --> 00:44:48.137
can speak the word of the

00:44:48.177 --> 00:44:49.297
device you can talk about

00:44:49.318 --> 00:44:50.297
it you don't have to worry

00:44:50.318 --> 00:44:51.217
about non-disclosure

00:44:51.237 --> 00:44:52.057
agreements that kind of

00:44:52.077 --> 00:44:53.579
stuff and you can get as

00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:55.099
many people onto it and you

00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:57.119
can start to whatever sell

00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:58.280
it hopefully you can get

00:44:58.340 --> 00:44:59.340
through the manufacturing

00:44:59.380 --> 00:45:01.420
process so that's all one

00:45:01.521 --> 00:45:03.561
big mark one big marathon

00:45:03.722 --> 00:45:04.722
I'm out of breath talking

00:45:04.742 --> 00:45:05.782
about that marathon yeah

00:45:05.822 --> 00:45:07.742
yeah simple not easy simple

00:45:07.782 --> 00:45:09.623
not easy and then you go

00:45:09.702 --> 00:45:11.264
into the marketing marathon

00:45:11.623 --> 00:45:12.523
And that's just a

00:45:12.603 --> 00:45:14.045
conversation for a whole nother day.

00:45:14.105 --> 00:45:15.826
But that is the.

00:45:16.126 --> 00:45:17.246
But you brought someone on

00:45:17.286 --> 00:45:17.945
to work with that.

00:45:19.606 --> 00:45:20.007
Correct.

00:45:20.706 --> 00:45:20.947
Sure.

00:45:21.148 --> 00:45:21.407
Yeah.

00:45:21.527 --> 00:45:21.768
I mean,

00:45:21.807 --> 00:45:23.088
there's been there's been so many

00:45:23.128 --> 00:45:23.708
people that have helped

00:45:23.748 --> 00:45:24.909
with marketing along the way.

00:45:25.429 --> 00:45:26.650
And I think the most

00:45:26.730 --> 00:45:27.730
important thing for you to

00:45:27.789 --> 00:45:29.371
do if you're interested in

00:45:29.411 --> 00:45:30.791
marketing is something you

00:45:30.811 --> 00:45:32.132
have to start to like open

00:45:32.152 --> 00:45:33.192
your eyes and take it in

00:45:33.331 --> 00:45:35.052
how the world is being marketed to you.

00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:37.201
Like every single product,

00:45:37.240 --> 00:45:38.463
like every single day

00:45:38.543 --> 00:45:39.563
you're getting exposed to

00:45:39.643 --> 00:45:40.364
thousands of messages,

00:45:40.384 --> 00:45:42.005
thousands of little pieces of marketing.

00:45:42.065 --> 00:45:43.266
They're right in front of you.

00:45:43.867 --> 00:45:44.507
It's all right.

00:45:44.547 --> 00:45:46.050
Look at them, dissect them,

00:45:46.110 --> 00:45:47.231
flip and then steal what

00:45:47.251 --> 00:45:48.652
you like and leave the rest

00:45:48.751 --> 00:45:49.793
and see what fits.

00:45:49.833 --> 00:45:50.713
I tell people that all the time.

00:45:51.094 --> 00:45:53.335
I'll work with big companies and they'll,

00:45:53.596 --> 00:45:55.418
you know, I learned this.

00:45:56.438 --> 00:45:57.300
The concept is called 10, 80, 10.

00:45:59.574 --> 00:46:02.255
So I don't want, if I worked for Scott,

00:46:02.416 --> 00:46:03.836
I don't need Scott over my

00:46:03.876 --> 00:46:04.476
shoulder every day.

00:46:04.516 --> 00:46:05.336
And Scott doesn't wanna be

00:46:05.356 --> 00:46:06.057
over my shoulder every day.

00:46:06.077 --> 00:46:07.077
Scott wants to hire me and

00:46:07.097 --> 00:46:07.898
then I go do things.

00:46:07.918 --> 00:46:08.778
But here's the problem.

00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:10.539
Right now we have a distance

00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:11.481
between what you have in

00:46:11.501 --> 00:46:12.240
your head and your heart

00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:12.981
that maybe you can't

00:46:13.001 --> 00:46:14.742
communicate and what I

00:46:14.782 --> 00:46:15.802
understand or what I'll do.

00:46:16.204 --> 00:46:18.164
So I invite Scott in for the first 10%.

00:46:18.844 --> 00:46:20.666
This is where you vomit at me.

00:46:20.706 --> 00:46:22.047
Just give me everything, feelings,

00:46:22.106 --> 00:46:24.108
emotionals, things you definitely want,

00:46:24.168 --> 00:46:26.429
things you definitely do not want, right?

00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:28.802
One of the exercises I do is

00:46:28.842 --> 00:46:29.922
exactly what you just said.

00:46:30.222 --> 00:46:31.302
Hey, in the next seven days,

00:46:32.123 --> 00:46:33.103
we're not going to create a

00:46:33.123 --> 00:46:33.963
Google Drive folder.

00:46:33.983 --> 00:46:34.884
That's too complicated.

00:46:35.003 --> 00:46:36.085
Even that's too complicated.

00:46:36.224 --> 00:46:37.364
I want you every time you're

00:46:37.405 --> 00:46:39.106
around a marketing message

00:46:39.126 --> 00:46:41.626
that you love or hate, screenshot it.

00:46:41.847 --> 00:46:42.668
At the end of the week,

00:46:42.887 --> 00:46:44.228
send me all the screenshots

00:46:44.307 --> 00:46:44.989
or take a photo.

00:46:45.009 --> 00:46:47.510
If it's a bus or something on TV,

00:46:47.550 --> 00:46:48.309
take a video of,

00:46:48.510 --> 00:46:49.530
and then we're going to sit down.

00:46:49.871 --> 00:46:50.891
We're going to do love and hate,

00:46:50.951 --> 00:46:51.751
and we're going to figure

00:46:51.891 --> 00:46:54.632
out what you look like and feel like,

00:46:54.813 --> 00:46:56.353
sound like, and smell like.

00:46:56.853 --> 00:46:57.713
then we're going to know it

00:46:57.733 --> 00:46:58.313
because you're going to go

00:46:58.353 --> 00:46:59.275
that's it and I'm going to

00:46:59.295 --> 00:47:00.635
go great I've got a

00:47:00.795 --> 00:47:02.175
physical representation of

00:47:02.215 --> 00:47:04.096
that and then I then I go

00:47:04.135 --> 00:47:05.516
do the 80 of the work

00:47:05.576 --> 00:47:06.416
that's the lift that's the

00:47:06.496 --> 00:47:07.356
middle of the bell curve

00:47:08.036 --> 00:47:09.777
but then I let scott at him

00:47:09.858 --> 00:47:11.657
a last 10 because I want to

00:47:11.717 --> 00:47:13.199
make sure before we ship

00:47:13.259 --> 00:47:14.838
that thing it's dialed in

00:47:14.858 --> 00:47:15.659
so I let you touch the

00:47:15.739 --> 00:47:17.500
first 10 I let you go to

00:47:17.539 --> 00:47:18.340
the store with me to get

00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:19.420
the ingredients definitely

00:47:19.460 --> 00:47:20.760
use that definitely don't use that

00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:22.581
And the last 10%,

00:47:22.581 --> 00:47:25.326
we're sanding down the edges.

00:47:25.626 --> 00:47:26.646
We know we're close because

00:47:26.666 --> 00:47:27.648
you gave me the ingredients.

00:47:27.688 --> 00:47:28.969
I can only cook them a

00:47:29.010 --> 00:47:29.831
certain number of ways.

00:47:30.331 --> 00:47:31.653
But I want to make sure before we ship,

00:47:31.673 --> 00:47:32.855
you don't like it, you love it.

00:47:33.782 --> 00:47:35.304
But the thing I wanted to hit was,

00:47:35.405 --> 00:47:36.144
it sounds like,

00:47:36.244 --> 00:47:37.005
that's why I wanted to bring up,

00:47:37.025 --> 00:47:38.666
you brought someone in for marketing.

00:47:38.748 --> 00:47:40.068
We can have that discussion later.

00:47:40.329 --> 00:47:41.449
We'll do that on a live stream.

00:47:41.469 --> 00:47:42.291
That's what we'll talk about.

00:47:42.371 --> 00:47:44.032
That'll be our added bonus follow-up.

00:47:44.413 --> 00:47:45.474
Follow us on YouTube for the

00:47:45.494 --> 00:47:46.394
live stream for that.

00:47:47.315 --> 00:47:48.436
But you went and found

00:47:48.556 --> 00:47:49.818
someone who was an expert

00:47:49.938 --> 00:47:50.898
in something that needed to

00:47:50.918 --> 00:47:53.400
be done that you couldn't do.

00:47:53.420 --> 00:47:53.621
I mean,

00:47:53.641 --> 00:47:54.521
you could have dropped everything

00:47:54.561 --> 00:47:56.083
you were doing and learned, you know...

00:47:56.844 --> 00:47:58.425
manufacturing for 10 years,

00:47:58.485 --> 00:47:59.304
but that's not what you

00:47:59.324 --> 00:48:00.045
wanted to be doing.

00:48:00.385 --> 00:48:02.987
So you found an expert and in PT terms,

00:48:03.086 --> 00:48:04.806
my friend, that is a referral.

00:48:05.208 --> 00:48:05.688
You said,

00:48:05.728 --> 00:48:06.987
I'm going to send this product

00:48:07.128 --> 00:48:08.088
and I'm going to refer out.

00:48:08.548 --> 00:48:10.150
And when it comes back to me, you'll,

00:48:10.289 --> 00:48:11.829
you've got a skillset I don't have,

00:48:12.170 --> 00:48:13.411
but we'll work for a common goal.

00:48:13.751 --> 00:48:14.351
And that's terribly.

00:48:14.492 --> 00:48:15.731
So what I wanted to say was

00:48:15.751 --> 00:48:16.733
when you were saying, well,

00:48:16.753 --> 00:48:17.632
if I wanted to get it done

00:48:17.672 --> 00:48:19.793
as cheaply and locally as possible,

00:48:19.954 --> 00:48:21.894
that cheap option costs you a lot,

00:48:21.954 --> 00:48:22.295
doesn't it?

00:48:22.873 --> 00:48:23.974
Oh, a lot of time.

00:48:24.295 --> 00:48:25.416
Yeah.

00:48:25.476 --> 00:48:26.356
And money because you got to

00:48:26.396 --> 00:48:27.376
pay twice as much to get

00:48:27.416 --> 00:48:28.217
half the result or a

00:48:28.277 --> 00:48:29.057
quarter of the result.

00:48:29.538 --> 00:48:31.139
And it feels like it's a good option,

00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:32.239
but a lot of times it's not.

00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:34.380
We try to communicate that with PT as well,

00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:34.701
right?

00:48:35.121 --> 00:48:37.402
Hey, listen, I know I might seem expensive,

00:48:37.902 --> 00:48:38.682
but what's worth?

00:48:38.762 --> 00:48:40.844
You not being able to work for three,

00:48:40.943 --> 00:48:42.304
four weeks or months?

00:48:42.864 --> 00:48:43.045
Here,

00:48:43.085 --> 00:48:45.286
let me show you how if I can get you

00:48:45.326 --> 00:48:46.027
back together,

00:48:46.427 --> 00:48:47.507
you'll actually be better

00:48:47.668 --> 00:48:49.829
off paying this crazy expensive job.

00:48:50.409 --> 00:48:52.110
uh physical therapist of why

00:48:52.130 --> 00:48:52.851
they should be helping you

00:48:52.871 --> 00:48:53.690
because we can unlock

00:48:53.751 --> 00:48:55.092
things a lot of messages

00:48:55.132 --> 00:48:56.954
there a lot of messages

00:48:56.974 --> 00:48:58.193
there yeah yeah couldn't

00:48:58.213 --> 00:48:59.195
agree more couldn't agree

00:48:59.255 --> 00:49:00.016
all right so we're gonna

00:49:00.076 --> 00:49:01.235
follow this up where do you

00:49:01.275 --> 00:49:02.197
want people to go to

00:49:02.297 --> 00:49:03.117
connect with you mentioned

00:49:03.137 --> 00:49:03.978
you're on linkedin so

00:49:03.998 --> 00:49:05.039
people look up look you up

00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:05.798
on linkedin we'll share

00:49:05.838 --> 00:49:08.141
that link as well um the

00:49:08.201 --> 00:49:09.362
website that you'd want to

00:49:09.402 --> 00:49:10.623
send people to I would love

00:49:10.902 --> 00:49:12.123
here here's why I know success

00:49:13.092 --> 00:49:14.753
Someone listens to this now

00:49:15.554 --> 00:49:17.195
or whenever they're hearing this,

00:49:17.215 --> 00:49:18.356
because that's how podcasts work.

00:49:18.376 --> 00:49:19.056
That's how great it is.

00:49:19.077 --> 00:49:20.097
We put this out to the world.

00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:21.699
And in a couple of years,

00:49:21.739 --> 00:49:23.101
someone writes you an email

00:49:23.141 --> 00:49:24.262
or me an email and says,

00:49:24.601 --> 00:49:26.543
I heard that episode you did with Scott,

00:49:26.965 --> 00:49:28.206
and here's what I did.

00:49:28.405 --> 00:49:30.628
And they send me a link to their product.

00:49:31.047 --> 00:49:32.289
that they made that they've

00:49:32.309 --> 00:49:33.449
been swirling around in

00:49:33.489 --> 00:49:35.009
their head but didn't

00:49:35.449 --> 00:49:36.530
looking for that green

00:49:36.610 --> 00:49:38.251
light this is your green

00:49:38.311 --> 00:49:39.490
light people if you're

00:49:39.550 --> 00:49:40.291
listening to this and

00:49:40.311 --> 00:49:41.811
you're still listening 49

00:49:41.811 --> 00:49:43.452
minutes in this is your

00:49:43.512 --> 00:49:45.072
green light to go do that

00:49:45.152 --> 00:49:47.134
thing because it happens

00:49:47.534 --> 00:49:50.994
why not you why not you uh

00:49:51.094 --> 00:49:51.735
last thing we do on the

00:49:51.755 --> 00:49:52.775
show is the parting shot

00:49:52.996 --> 00:49:54.175
you got to sum it up man no

00:49:54.215 --> 00:49:55.277
pressure but what would you

00:49:55.297 --> 00:49:55.836
want to leave with the

00:49:55.916 --> 00:49:57.476
audience uh as we wrap up today

00:50:00.356 --> 00:50:04.396
I would say I would say,

00:50:05.237 --> 00:50:07.617
taking the taking the hard

00:50:07.878 --> 00:50:08.878
path that you know,

00:50:08.898 --> 00:50:10.498
will challenge you will be

00:50:10.898 --> 00:50:12.139
far more rewarding than

00:50:12.338 --> 00:50:13.199
than you can imagine.

00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:14.858
Yeah, couldn't agree more, man.

00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:16.338
I was told not to launch a

00:50:16.378 --> 00:50:17.780
podcast that was nine and a

00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:18.420
half years ago.

00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:19.360
And I'm still doing this thing.

00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.559
And it's kind of a business now.

00:50:20.739 --> 00:50:21.039
Who knew?

00:50:22.061 --> 00:50:22.541
Scott Dickinson.

00:50:22.581 --> 00:50:23.161
Appreciate it.

00:50:23.181 --> 00:50:24.081
Thanks for doing what you do

00:50:24.141 --> 00:50:25.240
and sharing all your insight, man.

00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:27.862
Yeah, I really honored to be on here.

00:50:27.902 --> 00:50:28.342
Thanks, Jimmy.